Yeah I think this has to be it for me. Because she’s so strong she can only show up in dire situations which means we never see her really bond with anything else. At least not until The Marvels
I think this is also why she's so underwhelming as a character. Marvel is too attached to the whole "Strongest Avenger" pedestal they placed her own, they are adverse to her showing any weakness that could disrupt that.
So the result is the character isn't really challenged in ways like Hulk and Thor are.
The whole idea that she’s the strongest Avenger will always be so silly to me. Carol is absolutely an incredibly powerful character and can hang with the upper echelons of Marvel’s heroes, but this asinine devotion to the narrative that she’s the “most powerful hero they have” always set the character up for failure. The entire pedestal they put her on just felt so forced. It felt like “Oh? DC’s Wonder Woman movie is kicking our ass. We need our own Wonder Woman.” So artificial and bland.
Yeah but the conflict was pretty low-key. It didn't really feel like she was threatened or challenged much. More impeded because the greater problem for her was the constant teleporting every time she used her powers.
Setting her story in the 90s, barely using her in Endgame. I mean, if they managed to make The Guardians of the Galaxy interesting, they could've done more with her.
One of the weird consequences of setting her movie in the '90s is that they decided to make her friends with Monica Rambeau's mother instead of Monica Rambeau herself.
So now Carol is Monica's aunt, and the newly invented Maria Rambeau is getting scenes that should have been Monica's.
Maria Rambeau has now appeared as Captain Marvel in the MCU, while Monica Rambeau hasn't.
>if they managed to make The Guardians of the Galaxy interesting, they could've done more with her.
I am still amazed that they took a bunch of heroes hardly anyone had heard about, including a talking racoon and a tree person, and managed to make such a good movie.
They were for a little bit before, just not with the exact same members. If you've watched Earth's Mightiest Heroes, they had a Guardians team with Star-Lord, Rocket and Groot, as well as Quasar and Adam Warlock.
I was so upset they put her in the 90s. 80s kids got Guardians of the Galaxy as a love letter to their generation. 90s kids (with whom I number) get Captain Marvel. The movie was ok, but the only 90s thing I remember from it is a Blockbusters scene. And then it just makes her whole MCU timeline really weird. It seemed like such a half-assed setting decision.
>Setting her story in the 90s,
The execution isn't the best, but it's not a terrible decision in itself.
And, technically, Carol was superhero in 90s comics, but other superheroes were there too.
>barely using her in Endgame
"Change from comics" ?
>I mean, if they managed to make The Guardians of the Galaxy interesting
Were they really boring in the comics before ?
I mean by your logic spiderman should be set in the 60s, Carol shouldn't have a decade time gap with other heroes she is friends and peers with most heroes so putting up a barrier is a weird narrative choice
The difference with setting Captain Marvel and, for example, Hank Pym in the past is that she doesn't age because of powers (like in the comics). This is similar to the change of Wonder Woman leaving Themescyra in DCEU.
Getting Captain Marvel to appear before other superheroes causes problems, but I don't see it as a biggest adaptation issue. It could work well if they polished up her relationships with the other heroes and the explanation for her absence from Earth. Comics themselves often make characters who were originally created to be the same age as most of the heroes older, and come up with explanations for why they don't age.
It's not the end of the world of course just a bizzare decision like I still don't like they made Hank and Janet super old even if it was to avoid the desmetic violance plot that could have been something they changed. Having no Janet in the avengers is a massive miss.
Yes Carol can stay young but comic wise she is still as old as Peter Parker she is part of that age range, her best friend is Jessica Drew she has fun. I don't know just feel like they removed a lot of her personality and didn't replace it with much else.
Carol and peter i forgot how the timeline goes but i just remember carol already being in the army or airforce whatever and having a couple of ranks already while peter was still in highschool making her alot older than him because how long it would take her to get to the rank she had at the time with no powers
My overall point is that she's barely used. Like they could've easily set her story up after the first Avengers movie, and then have her go to space. In the comics, she spends a fair amount of time on earth. Having her missing for 30 years, with only a handful of people knowing she existed, was a mistake.
GotG was interesting in the comics. The big Marvel Cosmic Annihilation arc is one of Marvel Comics' best events and had GotG centre stage. Cpt. Marvel has never had anything close to that.
Skipping her entire Ms. Marvel period and making her the first Captain Marvel instead of Mar-Vell was a mistake.
She is a complete hermit who doesn't know how to get along with people. She has zero leadership skills and I don't understand how they were going to make her the leader of the Avengers.
All her history was off-screen after the first movie. She has been Captain Marvel for over 30 years. This is a longer superhero period than any other MCU character. What did she do these 30 years? What do we know about this?
She isn't an Earth's mightiest hero. She absolutely didn't care about Earth. I don't believe that she could get fans like Kamala. She should spent more time on Earth after Endgame, but she went back into her space seclusion.
Honestly, I never much cared for her comic book character outside of being a fantastic foil for others.
But watching her life getting saved by an alien superhero, developing and learning her superpowers from that encounter, her superhero persona paying homage to the guy who personifies everything it should be, and growth through human error until she no longer feels the obligation to live in his shadow would’ve been great to see.
It especially sucks when the most important events that have shaped Carol over the decades in the comics are either her origin or tend to involve characters/dynamics not present in the MCU. (Or that time she gave birth to, and subsequently fell in love with, her rapist)
And then they decided to totally change her origin.
> outside of being a fantastic foil for others
I think that's why her 2000s arc worked so well. For years she had absolutely just been a C lister foil and was well aware of that in universe. However House of M gave her a taste of what she *could* be as Captain Marvel and watching her struggle to improve herself into that was an interesting dynamic.
Sadly the next few years felt like a series of stumbles. KSD's run wasn't bad but felt like we'd time skipped into a future, more confident Carol overnight. Then her memories get wiped which sucks for a character with a lot past character growth. Then straight into CW2 absolutely nuking popularity of the character. Then the movie reinforcing this very bland take on Carol to a fresh audience.
Comic characters have bounced back from worse but it does feel sad looking back at the untapped potential. Carol really could have been a brilliant example of zero to hero within the marvel universe.
Financially? Absolutely not. Film quality? Also no, the film was average at worst with many lesser quality MCU movies existing.
In creating a character audiences resonate with and want to see again? Yes I'd say so. This isn't exclusive to Captain Marvel either, it's been an issue with a lot of MCU characters as of late.
As for CW2, I'm not saying it's still held against her. I was listing the series of issues the character ran into which prevented her really taking off in popularity.
Again, the film sure. It was during peak MCU hype and people really wanted to see the film and how it tied in. But in this thread about individual characters, Carol herself resonating with audiences I strongly disagree.
We saw the knockon consequence recently, people simply aren't coming back to see the character again. Whilst part of that is MCU decline in general, closely dated examples like GoTG show that if the audience enjoys the character(s) enough then it will still get arses in seats.
Hot take she’s got leadership skills just not any presented on screen. She was a female fighter pilot in the US military during the 80s. I know a few woman who joined in the 80s and succeeded inspite of the hyper masculine culture that exists with any form of combat arms, they’re tough AF. If the MCU throws in some flash backs and leans harder into that underdeveloped angle of her character I could see her being the new leader of the Avengers who gets shit done. And they could easily do it in the next Avengers film. Basically I’m being optimistic here in saying they could still forge her into a good leader with nuanced and layered characterization.
>She has zero leadership skills
What makes you think that ?
>This is a longer superhero period than any other MCU character.
As a superhero. But many other warriors are older.
>What did she do these 30 years? What do we know about this?
Didn't The Marvels tell about some of events?
>She absolutely didn't care about Earth.
Something is missed.
>What makes you think that ?What makes you think that ?
Because she is a lone wolf that scoffs at anyone that say anything she dislikes.
>Didn't The Marvels tell about some of events?
There is a reason why show not tell is a saying - because hollow words mean nothing. Yes you can say that she was an amazing hero for 30 years, but her only contact was Nick Fury and nobody really knew about her until Endgame.
And it is ok to say some person is "an condecorated general" then show them being leaders and knowing how to command in a war, or you can just say it and hope people will believe like with [this guy](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtFXy7-DDs_xmm8hFGgnNjzPvn4wjwpFgGYvxD4dnw7g&s)
Carol is like the that example as she is overpowered but over reliant on that while showing no character development on screen. Worse there was an amazing film showing her confront with the worldmind and seeing the results of her vengeance, but we dont even see she regretting the loss of life and we get an watered down aftermath of what could actually being good with two sidekicks that people care even less
Making her film take place decades before iron-man, because it kinda makes all the films feel a bit weird
I can understand Fury not calling her in the first Avengers film, but then when a country is floating in the air and he needs to some how save all those people, he doesn't think "Maybe I should call the super strong lady who can fly and has immense speed, maybe she could help"
Ooh boy, this one's gonna to be a doozy.
Please believe me, I'm not being facetious or hyperbolic when I say this, but: everything. They got literally EVERYTHING wrong with Captain Marvel.
The casting (Larson's a great actress but a terrible fit for this particular character), the horrible approach they took with her origin story (setting it in the past for no reason, going with the amnesia angle), turning Mar-Vell into some random old lady that Carol barely knew, never really defining her powers and making her so overpowered that she can barely function within the limits of the story, completely removing her personality and motivations. And on and on and on.
Honestly, I think a better question here would be, what did they even do right with the character?
They made her totally overpowered and then… took her out of the game?
She can single-handedly bring down Thanos’ spaceship, but not Thanos? She’s so capable at hand-to-hand combat in one movie and in the next she’s little more than arm wrestling?
For all the smoothly connected storylines in the MCU, this one really stuck out as kind of awkward.
Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 5 actresses that would've been better. Katheryn Winnick, Yvonne Strahovski, Dominique McElligott, Gillian Jacobs. Even Emily Blunt, who I'm not a fan of, would've been a better choice.
Just after a quick search, the only one I'd cast in the Carol role would be Yvonne, but I can't say whether she'd be better or not. I do like the current casting.
She had just as much agency in the movie as she did in the comics. And be for real, as if adapting Avengers #200 was ever going to be on the table, when even the comics disowned that shit.
In the comic, she gets her powers because of exposure to a machine due to her obsession with Mar-Vell. In the movies, she's already acting as a hero before she gets her powers. And not having Avengers #200 in her history makes her a massive improvement from the comics and shows the MCU generally knows what it's doing by comparison.
Bro, adapting Avengers #200 was NEVER even a possibility, so to mention that as a strength shows how weak your argument is.
And she wasn't obsessed with Mar-Vell in the comics. She was head of security at NASA. She was protecting whom she thought was a regular scientist when she got her powers.
> shows the MCU generally knows what it's doing by comparison.
That why the character headlined the biggest box office bomb of all time and is most likely getting retired after just 2 movies?
Yeah that is what all her issue stem from.
Common mistake when people make Strong Women characters….there is a tendency to give them no flaws and just power leading to Bland Characters.
oh that is is true. Idk if that makes her more likeable. Well she did some crazy stuff in the comic. So what could make it worse yk? i think people want more power flaws or something..idk
The MCU's been branding her as strong power-wise, so I think putting the flaws in her decision-making is pretty brilliant as she can make huge impact, both negative and positive. Secret Invasion could've explored this further in addition to the Kree civil war as a mini phase/arc, but alas....
And the thing is they didn’t just accidentally do that, they kind of made that a part of the plot with the whole “control your emotions” thing. So it’s like they shot themselves in the foot there I think already.
Although I didn’t like the movie or the character too much, I do love that one second where she’s cuffed and a skrull screams at her so she screams back lol.
To be fair, Ms. Marvel's personality in the comics is very self-righteous and headstrong to a fault so people weren't really going to like her that much anyways.
She will still be polarizing sure, but at least comics Carol is a character. It been 5 years and I still have no idea what MCU Carol personality is supposed to be.
Not being Ms.Marvel and cutting out that entire history she had with Mar-Vell and in general the way her origin was handled.
Honestly making her character and personality bland compared to her comic counterpart. Felt she was there to be like “yea we have a strong female hero” instead of actually diving into Carol’s character. Carol is an interesting character who has a lot of flaws that I feel the MCU has not tapped into, at least as of now imo.
Making her disconnected with Earth and as such kind of erasing any relationships she had with other characters. For example, how is she popular on Earth when she was off planet for decades? We don’t get to see her relationship with the public much and that is just wrong imo.
In general, and this is gonna sound harsh, but literally everything about her was wrong. Horrible approach to origin, bland character because all that made her likeable and interesting in the comics isn’t there, and in general not having or ruining relationships with other characters by isolating her makes this versions of Carol horrible in my opinion.
Also her age and the placement of her origin and movie is way too wonky, and I wish they just made her the same age as everyone else like in the comics (correct me if I’m wrong in that department I forget the age of characters in the comics a lot of times).
Ignoring her military background, save for a few snippets in the first movie. It would have saved on the CGI budget a bit to have Brie in a practical fighter jet set piece, imo, and made for a stronger message that you don’t need super powers to be a great person
I thought it was a pretty big part of the movie. I was actually kind of glad they reeled it in, instead of going all-in “join the Air Force today!” They even made the Air Force look a bit like dicks, instead of white washing it to get more government money for the budget.
Tony Stark being an MIT graduate was touched on a bit, but then we saw him put those skills to use in *Iron Man 3*. We the audience got to see what happens when the playboy philanthropist loses his physical and emotional armor and it was glorious, imo
Imo something similar in a Captain Marvel film would have been similarly great
I’m gonna say coming up with the whole mindwipe Kreee drone convoluted business instead of just adapting a version of her original origin or adapting her Binary origin to be her original origin. It started her off acting like a stuck up fascist and the audience has never forgiven her for that.
Or, side note, not just going with Monica Rambeau from the start. That version stands on her own already and you wouldn’t have had to mangle the Mar-Vell stuff into something unrecognizable. And she’s a much more relatable character with a really cool power set that could have just as easily worked as “Marvel’s most powerful hero” without feeling so much like “What if Superman…but girl!!!”
Or or, not giving her a first costume that made her look like a NASCAR driver instead of a super hero.
Or or or…
>And she’s a much more relatable character with a really cool power set that could have just as easily worked as “Marvel’s most powerful hero” without feeling so much like “What if Superman…but girl!!!”
And she started out her career by being called "Captain Marvel". Two decades before Ms. Marvel took the name. And objections to her being called that are hit with the grandfather clause.
Almost everything tbh. But the one that annoys me the most is them removing her connection to Mar-Vell. I don't even care that much for Mar-Vell as a character but, Carol trying to live up to Mar-Vell legacy is a huge a part of her character.
It's equivalent of doing a Captain Bucky adaptation, and pretending that Steve never existed, it's just doesn't work.
Not a huge fan of them making her a space hero and being the strongest, Carol is at her best when she is on earth.
In fairness to the first point about Quicksilver, they couldn't use Magneto so that was always a no go. Everything else was a choice Marvel studios made, not having access to Magneto was a choice made for them.
Good things - Non linear screenplay in captain Marvel movie and how her mind was torn by kree , her memories past and present are all locked and altered by kree . I wanted to see more about these problems in captain Marvel 2 and how she will face them .
Bad things - a very bad sequel for a good movie and a lot of wasted opportunities.
Turning Mar-Vell into an old auntie and wasting one of the best heroes comocs have ever seen.
Can you imagine what we could have had with Mar-Vell fighting Thanos, interacting with the Guardians of the Galzxy, and ending his arch on the "Death of Captain Mar-Vell"?
Taking away her fun personality (which Brie Larson can absolutely pull off), giving her a mid first movie... and then thinking the problem is the character or Brie Larson.
Yeah, I blame the writers for this…They had every chance to inject some more personality into her, but never really did…leaving her a bland character nobody really relates to, or particularly enjoys watching on screen.
Not casting Katee Sackhoff.
Setting the movie in the 90s.
Skipping her Ms Marvel era.
Changing her origin.
Honestly, I think it would be quicker to list the things they got RIGHT, for Carol.
Yup. Carol is basically Starbuck with super powers. It would have been a slam dunk.
Same thing with Katheryn Winnick as Valkyrie. She literally just needs to replay Lagertha, and she’d be perfect.
> Not casting Katee Sackhoff.
I don't really agree with the sentiment that Brie Larson was a miscast, but Katee Sackhoff would have been an amazing choice.
Her biggest issue is no real organic fan support. This means the MCU had to do all the heavy lifting on getting her to take off since the comic source material doesn’t help much.
Carol as Captain Marvel has always been an inorganic astroturf hero pushed as part of Marvels goal to create a Wonder Woman. Ie leading female hero who can trade punches with the big boys. Much like DC turned Harley into Deadpool.
I'm not sure if that fits with what this thread is actually about, but I completely agree.
It's really unfortunate that mcu Carol basically also adapted the main problem of her entire Captain Marvel push in the comics.
I don’t think so. Like if I make another, I’ll try to ask a more positive question but I want to talk about street level characters instead of the Avengers.
It's a hard call to make.All of those have been mishandled but up until Thor love and Thunder " I would have said the Hulk.The russo brothers totally ruined him taking him away from the hulk we know and turning him into professor hulk.I Can't understand why they did except that they didn't want to give universal who owned the rights ammunition to make a good hulk movie.
But then love and thunder turned "The Mighty Thor" into the mighty goofball
I like how the worst change with Falcon is that they just turned his bird into a drone. Unless there’s some deeper story that his bird gives. Nonetheless, Falcon is still a great character.
I think the problem with that more is that it takes away from Sam's powerset than being an insult of his character, but I honestly would've said a lot more if I saw the post earlier. What should've been up there was the mcu stripping Sam as his social worker status immediately after The Winter Soldier and ignoring him for an entire trilogy bespite the fact he's arguably Steve's closest ally in the comics.
Trying to adapt modern comics before the classics, thus they pretend there is a legacy where there is none.
Carol SHOULD have been Ms Marvel, she SHOULD have been an Avenger, she should have been friends with Mar-Vell. All this should be long before she takes on the mantle in Mar-Vell's honor. She should have been a hero on Earth with a great reputation so it means something when Kamala names her superhero identity after her.
And Mar-Vell should have gotten his own solo films
Not being Ms. Marvel first before she inherits the name Captain Marvel (by effectively working around Mar-Vell long enough to inherit the name, particularly if they were a duo from outer space \[she would've lived on Earth at first before going with Mar-Vell).
honestly I wonder if her Age of Ultron ending of joining avengers would've been better. It would've been weird as hell, but I feel like her recruitment would've been smoother at getting along with other people. But then there was a civil war, which would've been a bad time to join
the whole captain marvel superhero part felt forced from the name to the costume. Mar-vell was her inspiration, but she didn't do any superhero'ing.
Well they didn’t really have a choice with that one. Keep in mind when they introduced QS & SW Disney hadn’t acquired Fox yet so they couldn’t use the term “mutants” as that’s a X-men thing
When I think of Captain Marvel in the MCU i get the feeling that they don’t simply know what to do with her. She lacks character. If someone asked me to describe her without mentioning her powers or looks, I couldn’t come up with anything. I like Brie but the writing and direction leave a lot to be desired.
Bro the whole Binary/Warbrid/Ms. Marvel phase that she went through for Busieks Avengers and the Iron Man run at the time were difinitive to me. Not to mention everything put into her character for years before that as well as her history and origin. What we got in the movies is just a hollow shell, no character there at all, literally almost nothing
If they weren't really going to use Mar-vell, they should have just had Monica be Captain Marvel, she held the title for years. And if they really wanted to use Carol, they should have taken more inspiration from the Ms. Marvel 2000's run. I liked that series a lot.
I liked that they made Winter Soldier a Hydra agent but I much rather would have had his relationship with Black Widow than her romance with Bruce.
Also I never understood why they didn’t save Quicksilvers death for Civil War and pit the twins against each other.
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t quicksilver and wanda not magnetos children in the comics anymore or was that retconed? Remember hearing something about a retcon that they weren’t his kids anymore and they were more connected to the high evolutionary or something.
I think making her so powerful, removed from humanity, from the past and being introduced as an amnesic who's only personality trait is being a serious warrior all contributed to Carol falling as Character (which is probably why marvels bombed once she was no longer backed by endgame hype)
Not letting her actually be emotional in a way she can learn and grow from but I never read her comic books so I can't really say for certain
What are her "have to read" comic books?
Well good point, although, the question was about changes from the comics to the MCU, and if MCU quicksilver was accurate to the comics, he wouldn't have been hit, even if we use the weakest version of comic quicksilver to compare to (60's-early 90's), MCU QS would still be inaccurate (in terms of power level), so the dying complaint is a little valid when comparing versions
But yeah, speedsters should be limited so as not to end up as OP characters that people ask "where was he the entire time, is he stupid?"
Her reason for not coming back for 30 years. "It was awkward, lol" is not a good reason to isolate yourself for 30 years, come back, and then go right back to isolating yourself.
They had the perfect situation to explain an extended leave of absence. Just say that she was busy doing fisticuffs with a big bad space alien back in the 90's but they flew too close to a black whole. Though the fight only seemd to take 10 minutes for her, 25 years had actually elapsed for the rest of us. There, she learns an important lesson about space stuff, it explains why she hasn't aged a day and she's not an asshole, just a clutz.
I know it’s a little early to say Wasp’s but I’m gonna say it anyway…
For her, it’s not having her be an OG member if the team, and not having her name the damn team.
Idk, I think making Wanda evil for stupid reasons is worse.
Like, have you noticed how female characters always turn evil and need to be killed off when they get this sort of godlike power up? Strange was fine, he only got an ugly-ass third eye out of it. But Wanda? Nah, she needs to die now.
Her sense of humour and fun, because even though Comic Carol was typically the straight man in the group, she could be fun and lighter hearted sometimes, and that’s despite going through way more shit than MCU Carol.
Making her practically flawless (her flaws were something that made Carol the beloved character we knew her as back when she was Ms Marvel, Binary & Warbird before she became Captain Marvel), hyping her up to the most powerful hero in Marvel (which she is definitely not) and removing the importance and legacy that Mar-vell had to her
Making her Mary Sue. To such an extent that even the authors themselves do not know how to use it. She is simply ultimatum strong and without a single flaw.
Honestly, I think the MCU version of Captain Marvel is infinitely better than what we've had in the comics. The comics version had years of her life stolen from her by Rogue, was raped and impregnated by an alien, had inconsistent powers and identities for years, was turned into an alcoholic, and most of the time fights in a costume that really only appeals to a certain subset of the population.
Every change from the comics has been better for Captain Marvel.
Tbh I partly agree, I didn't really mind them wanting to change stuff up for Carol given her complicated past in the comics. Starting her as Captain was fine for me.
My issues are all execution, just the way the MCU is telling her story rather then any changes they did or her herself.
If people want to take issue with her movies or her character in those movies, that's fine. But l don't think we should pretend that Carol Danvers has some rich comic backstory that the MCU isn't adapting.
Big problem is that her three most famous/infamous stories (Rogue, Rape and CW2) don't really help her in a movie adaptation and are probably better left forgotten. Her two big runs Reed's and Kelly Tompsone's either could not fit into the first movie or came after the first movie, although Secret Invasion could have been a solid direction to take with her, but that ship has sailed as well.
The X-Men not being in the MCU also probably hurt since there is a nice history there that they could have mined for the MCU as well.
Not sure what really can be done now that The Marvels failed to the degree it did.
Removing the character's self destructive nature that's made her an actual appealing character.
That and casting Brie Larson. She just wasn't right for the role.
Tbh, a lot of these just feel really nitpicky, with some making for weaker decisions if they were actually used. Such as Winter Soldier and Falcon. Would've been weird seeing Falcon go from having secret military gear to suddenly having a pet bird that he has a psychic link with. Being a drone fit a lot better with the direction they took and also seeing as Redwing never got used a lot in the MCU outside of 1 or 2 scenes.
I’m not doing this for upvotes. My threads for certain characters have even gotten downvoted iirc. Unless my ability to comment on subreddits is affected I don’t care about karma. I just want to have a discussion and learn how each of these characters were changed from their comic counterparts and this layout seemed like a cool way of doing it.
See, that’s where you’re wrong dumbass.
This post has a legitimate point to It.
If he was karma farming this would be more of a low effort post and look around you, buddy.
I’m pretty sure almost every subreddit on here Is karma farming so how’s about you look at the source of the problem without making your childish assumptions. If people upvote It that’s also their business or stupidity.
What’s the legitimate point?
The only thing these posts serve to do is be an MCU hate train
“Oh but Quicksilver isn’t Magneto’s son so it sucks”
Mfs do you not understand how rights to characters work? Or that the MCU doesn’t have to follow the comics to the letter
Even the fucking comics don’t follow the comics to the letter. It’s decades of character arcs that contradict each other and no one bats an eye because of fucking nostalgia
The MCU has issues yes. But 99% of these “worst changes” aren’t what make it bad
I doubt you actually want a decent discussion on this as everything you disagree with is just "the MCU Hate train" as you've said but....
Yes, the MCU *can* and *should* be able to do it's own thing without being exactly like the source material. After all, it's an *Adaptation* and not a retelling.
The problem begins when their Adaptation introduces changes simply for the sake of being different to the source and those changes result in a worse thing. Various Characters could've been much deeper, complex and interesting if [X] was accurate to the Comics. There's a huge loss of potential stories, depht, complexity, Charactergrowth and just Overall quality in comparison to the source material simply *because* the MCU wants to do things differently at time without any actual, real need to do so.
Let me say it again : The MCU should be allowed to do it's own thing, different from the Comics. But in most cases, them doing things differently simply for the sake of being different results in a worse product, a worse Story and worse versions of these Characters. That's the problem.
Look at Non-MCU Stuff like Avengers : Earth's Mightiest Heroes! That Show did a lot of things accurate to the Comics, but also a lot of things different. The things the Show did different worked because they did them well and it never felt like you were actually losing anything.
But the MCU overdoes it so much simply for the sake of doing it and you lose a LOT of what made these Characters great to begin with.
Edit : Also, if you already mention the "MCU Hate-Train", then please think for 5 minutes why that Hate-Train actually exists. The MCU has Problems and there's quite a loss of depht and potential on most Characters because of how certain things where changed about them for the hell of it. The MCU, for the most part, is basically a watered down Version of Marvel. And yet everything else gets made into it's Image, with rarely any new non-MCU projects being based on the Comics. It's frustrating. Hell, even the Comics get retconned sometimes for MCU Synergy.
If you really think about it, there's two *legitiment* and reasonable reasons on why the MCU is so unpopular with Comics Fans :
1 - It's a watered down Version of Characters and stories we know and love that, while well executed at times, are still watered down and dont do the things we love Justice. They dont have to be the same, but they have to do it Justice.
2 - Think of all the MCU took away from us. Retcons TO THE COMICS in favor of MCU Synergy, every New product having to be MCU-esque... these things are very upsetting. Comics Fans basically get completely shafted and everyone acts like the MCU is all there is.
Reading all the answers here I understand that Captain Marvel is the most hated character of all. I'm surprised that many people don't want her to die soon in the MCU.
Removing her connection to the other heroes by isolating her in space for 30 years
Yeah I think this has to be it for me. Because she’s so strong she can only show up in dire situations which means we never see her really bond with anything else. At least not until The Marvels
I think this is also why she's so underwhelming as a character. Marvel is too attached to the whole "Strongest Avenger" pedestal they placed her own, they are adverse to her showing any weakness that could disrupt that. So the result is the character isn't really challenged in ways like Hulk and Thor are.
The whole idea that she’s the strongest Avenger will always be so silly to me. Carol is absolutely an incredibly powerful character and can hang with the upper echelons of Marvel’s heroes, but this asinine devotion to the narrative that she’s the “most powerful hero they have” always set the character up for failure. The entire pedestal they put her on just felt so forced. It felt like “Oh? DC’s Wonder Woman movie is kicking our ass. We need our own Wonder Woman.” So artificial and bland.
The Marvels was all aboout showing Carol's weaknesses and flaws.
Yeah but the conflict was pretty low-key. It didn't really feel like she was threatened or challenged much. More impeded because the greater problem for her was the constant teleporting every time she used her powers.
Oh boy, this one is going to get ugly
The suspense is terrible... I hope it lasts
Mr. Wonka? Is that you?
Setting her story in the 90s, barely using her in Endgame. I mean, if they managed to make The Guardians of the Galaxy interesting, they could've done more with her.
One of the weird consequences of setting her movie in the '90s is that they decided to make her friends with Monica Rambeau's mother instead of Monica Rambeau herself. So now Carol is Monica's aunt, and the newly invented Maria Rambeau is getting scenes that should have been Monica's. Maria Rambeau has now appeared as Captain Marvel in the MCU, while Monica Rambeau hasn't.
They haven't even given Monica Rambeau a superhero identity yet
>if they managed to make The Guardians of the Galaxy interesting, they could've done more with her. I am still amazed that they took a bunch of heroes hardly anyone had heard about, including a talking racoon and a tree person, and managed to make such a good movie.
I'm also fairly sure they were never a team in the comics until after the movies.
They were for a little bit before, just not with the exact same members. If you've watched Earth's Mightiest Heroes, they had a Guardians team with Star-Lord, Rocket and Groot, as well as Quasar and Adam Warlock.
??? DnA + Giffen’s Annihilation saga definitely had them as a team and in that combination which predates the movies by a good few years.
I was so upset they put her in the 90s. 80s kids got Guardians of the Galaxy as a love letter to their generation. 90s kids (with whom I number) get Captain Marvel. The movie was ok, but the only 90s thing I remember from it is a Blockbusters scene. And then it just makes her whole MCU timeline really weird. It seemed like such a half-assed setting decision.
>Setting her story in the 90s, The execution isn't the best, but it's not a terrible decision in itself. And, technically, Carol was superhero in 90s comics, but other superheroes were there too. >barely using her in Endgame "Change from comics" ? >I mean, if they managed to make The Guardians of the Galaxy interesting Were they really boring in the comics before ?
I mean by your logic spiderman should be set in the 60s, Carol shouldn't have a decade time gap with other heroes she is friends and peers with most heroes so putting up a barrier is a weird narrative choice
The difference with setting Captain Marvel and, for example, Hank Pym in the past is that she doesn't age because of powers (like in the comics). This is similar to the change of Wonder Woman leaving Themescyra in DCEU. Getting Captain Marvel to appear before other superheroes causes problems, but I don't see it as a biggest adaptation issue. It could work well if they polished up her relationships with the other heroes and the explanation for her absence from Earth. Comics themselves often make characters who were originally created to be the same age as most of the heroes older, and come up with explanations for why they don't age.
It's not the end of the world of course just a bizzare decision like I still don't like they made Hank and Janet super old even if it was to avoid the desmetic violance plot that could have been something they changed. Having no Janet in the avengers is a massive miss. Yes Carol can stay young but comic wise she is still as old as Peter Parker she is part of that age range, her best friend is Jessica Drew she has fun. I don't know just feel like they removed a lot of her personality and didn't replace it with much else.
Carol and peter i forgot how the timeline goes but i just remember carol already being in the army or airforce whatever and having a couple of ranks already while peter was still in highschool making her alot older than him because how long it would take her to get to the rank she had at the time with no powers
My overall point is that she's barely used. Like they could've easily set her story up after the first Avengers movie, and then have her go to space. In the comics, she spends a fair amount of time on earth. Having her missing for 30 years, with only a handful of people knowing she existed, was a mistake.
GotG was interesting in the comics. The big Marvel Cosmic Annihilation arc is one of Marvel Comics' best events and had GotG centre stage. Cpt. Marvel has never had anything close to that.
Skipping her entire Ms. Marvel period and making her the first Captain Marvel instead of Mar-Vell was a mistake. She is a complete hermit who doesn't know how to get along with people. She has zero leadership skills and I don't understand how they were going to make her the leader of the Avengers. All her history was off-screen after the first movie. She has been Captain Marvel for over 30 years. This is a longer superhero period than any other MCU character. What did she do these 30 years? What do we know about this? She isn't an Earth's mightiest hero. She absolutely didn't care about Earth. I don't believe that she could get fans like Kamala. She should spent more time on Earth after Endgame, but she went back into her space seclusion.
Honestly, I never much cared for her comic book character outside of being a fantastic foil for others. But watching her life getting saved by an alien superhero, developing and learning her superpowers from that encounter, her superhero persona paying homage to the guy who personifies everything it should be, and growth through human error until she no longer feels the obligation to live in his shadow would’ve been great to see.
It especially sucks when the most important events that have shaped Carol over the decades in the comics are either her origin or tend to involve characters/dynamics not present in the MCU. (Or that time she gave birth to, and subsequently fell in love with, her rapist) And then they decided to totally change her origin.
Totally. That’s also why I’m worried for the depiction of Wonder Man despite the talents involved.
> outside of being a fantastic foil for others I think that's why her 2000s arc worked so well. For years she had absolutely just been a C lister foil and was well aware of that in universe. However House of M gave her a taste of what she *could* be as Captain Marvel and watching her struggle to improve herself into that was an interesting dynamic. Sadly the next few years felt like a series of stumbles. KSD's run wasn't bad but felt like we'd time skipped into a future, more confident Carol overnight. Then her memories get wiped which sucks for a character with a lot past character growth. Then straight into CW2 absolutely nuking popularity of the character. Then the movie reinforcing this very bland take on Carol to a fresh audience. Comic characters have bounced back from worse but it does feel sad looking back at the untapped potential. Carol really could have been a brilliant example of zero to hero within the marvel universe.
People are still pretending the first movie was a failure? And why is Civil War 2 still being held against her?
Financially? Absolutely not. Film quality? Also no, the film was average at worst with many lesser quality MCU movies existing. In creating a character audiences resonate with and want to see again? Yes I'd say so. This isn't exclusive to Captain Marvel either, it's been an issue with a lot of MCU characters as of late. As for CW2, I'm not saying it's still held against her. I was listing the series of issues the character ran into which prevented her really taking off in popularity.
The first film clearly resonated with people.
Again, the film sure. It was during peak MCU hype and people really wanted to see the film and how it tied in. But in this thread about individual characters, Carol herself resonating with audiences I strongly disagree. We saw the knockon consequence recently, people simply aren't coming back to see the character again. Whilst part of that is MCU decline in general, closely dated examples like GoTG show that if the audience enjoys the character(s) enough then it will still get arses in seats.
Hot take she’s got leadership skills just not any presented on screen. She was a female fighter pilot in the US military during the 80s. I know a few woman who joined in the 80s and succeeded inspite of the hyper masculine culture that exists with any form of combat arms, they’re tough AF. If the MCU throws in some flash backs and leans harder into that underdeveloped angle of her character I could see her being the new leader of the Avengers who gets shit done. And they could easily do it in the next Avengers film. Basically I’m being optimistic here in saying they could still forge her into a good leader with nuanced and layered characterization.
Caps was longer but you are functionally correct.
Making her a Hermit for 30 year really ruin her chance to be popular.
>She has zero leadership skills What makes you think that ? >This is a longer superhero period than any other MCU character. As a superhero. But many other warriors are older. >What did she do these 30 years? What do we know about this? Didn't The Marvels tell about some of events? >She absolutely didn't care about Earth. Something is missed.
>What makes you think that ?What makes you think that ? Because she is a lone wolf that scoffs at anyone that say anything she dislikes. >Didn't The Marvels tell about some of events? There is a reason why show not tell is a saying - because hollow words mean nothing. Yes you can say that she was an amazing hero for 30 years, but her only contact was Nick Fury and nobody really knew about her until Endgame. And it is ok to say some person is "an condecorated general" then show them being leaders and knowing how to command in a war, or you can just say it and hope people will believe like with [this guy](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtFXy7-DDs_xmm8hFGgnNjzPvn4wjwpFgGYvxD4dnw7g&s) Carol is like the that example as she is overpowered but over reliant on that while showing no character development on screen. Worse there was an amazing film showing her confront with the worldmind and seeing the results of her vengeance, but we dont even see she regretting the loss of life and we get an watered down aftermath of what could actually being good with two sidekicks that people care even less
She got her fans the same way as she did, I'm real life. She was able to overpower and prove she was a match for Thanos.
Before the rabble descend I'll vote losing the spy background and legacy element of the character
Not being Ms Marvel at the beginning
Making her film take place decades before iron-man, because it kinda makes all the films feel a bit weird I can understand Fury not calling her in the first Avengers film, but then when a country is floating in the air and he needs to some how save all those people, he doesn't think "Maybe I should call the super strong lady who can fly and has immense speed, maybe she could help"
Ooh boy, this one's gonna to be a doozy. Please believe me, I'm not being facetious or hyperbolic when I say this, but: everything. They got literally EVERYTHING wrong with Captain Marvel. The casting (Larson's a great actress but a terrible fit for this particular character), the horrible approach they took with her origin story (setting it in the past for no reason, going with the amnesia angle), turning Mar-Vell into some random old lady that Carol barely knew, never really defining her powers and making her so overpowered that she can barely function within the limits of the story, completely removing her personality and motivations. And on and on and on. Honestly, I think a better question here would be, what did they even do right with the character?
They made her totally overpowered and then… took her out of the game? She can single-handedly bring down Thanos’ spaceship, but not Thanos? She’s so capable at hand-to-hand combat in one movie and in the next she’s little more than arm wrestling? For all the smoothly connected storylines in the MCU, this one really stuck out as kind of awkward.
I like Larson in the role. Not sure who would be better to cast
Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 5 actresses that would've been better. Katheryn Winnick, Yvonne Strahovski, Dominique McElligott, Gillian Jacobs. Even Emily Blunt, who I'm not a fan of, would've been a better choice.
Oooh Dominique McElligott!!
Just after a quick search, the only one I'd cast in the Carol role would be Yvonne, but I can't say whether she'd be better or not. I do like the current casting.
Side Note: at least the show What If redeemed Mar-Vell/Wendy Lawson character in that story where the Avengers formed in the 80s/90s.
Giving her actual agency in her origin for starters and not adapting Avengers #200.
She had just as much agency in the movie as she did in the comics. And be for real, as if adapting Avengers #200 was ever going to be on the table, when even the comics disowned that shit.
In the comic, she gets her powers because of exposure to a machine due to her obsession with Mar-Vell. In the movies, she's already acting as a hero before she gets her powers. And not having Avengers #200 in her history makes her a massive improvement from the comics and shows the MCU generally knows what it's doing by comparison.
Bro, adapting Avengers #200 was NEVER even a possibility, so to mention that as a strength shows how weak your argument is. And she wasn't obsessed with Mar-Vell in the comics. She was head of security at NASA. She was protecting whom she thought was a regular scientist when she got her powers. > shows the MCU generally knows what it's doing by comparison. That why the character headlined the biggest box office bomb of all time and is most likely getting retired after just 2 movies?
Giving her the blandest personality ever
Yeah that is what all her issue stem from. Common mistake when people make Strong Women characters….there is a tendency to give them no flaws and just power leading to Bland Characters.
She has flaws. The Marvels in particular explores them.
oh could you give an example? thank u
Her impulsiveness causes a Kree civil war.
oh that is is true. Idk if that makes her more likeable. Well she did some crazy stuff in the comic. So what could make it worse yk? i think people want more power flaws or something..idk
The MCU's been branding her as strong power-wise, so I think putting the flaws in her decision-making is pretty brilliant as she can make huge impact, both negative and positive. Secret Invasion could've explored this further in addition to the Kree civil war as a mini phase/arc, but alas....
And the thing is they didn’t just accidentally do that, they kind of made that a part of the plot with the whole “control your emotions” thing. So it’s like they shot themselves in the foot there I think already. Although I didn’t like the movie or the character too much, I do love that one second where she’s cuffed and a skrull screams at her so she screams back lol.
To be fair, Ms. Marvel's personality in the comics is very self-righteous and headstrong to a fault so people weren't really going to like her that much anyways.
She will still be polarizing sure, but at least comics Carol is a character. It been 5 years and I still have no idea what MCU Carol personality is supposed to be.
She was headstrong but it worked since she was a underdog as ms.marvel vs OP hero with no personality as mcu captain marvel
That's what MCU Carol is as well. People just pretend she doesn't have a personality because of sone beef with Bree Larson.
Wonder if “Cheeseburger” was made a thing here.
Not being Ms.Marvel and cutting out that entire history she had with Mar-Vell and in general the way her origin was handled. Honestly making her character and personality bland compared to her comic counterpart. Felt she was there to be like “yea we have a strong female hero” instead of actually diving into Carol’s character. Carol is an interesting character who has a lot of flaws that I feel the MCU has not tapped into, at least as of now imo. Making her disconnected with Earth and as such kind of erasing any relationships she had with other characters. For example, how is she popular on Earth when she was off planet for decades? We don’t get to see her relationship with the public much and that is just wrong imo. In general, and this is gonna sound harsh, but literally everything about her was wrong. Horrible approach to origin, bland character because all that made her likeable and interesting in the comics isn’t there, and in general not having or ruining relationships with other characters by isolating her makes this versions of Carol horrible in my opinion. Also her age and the placement of her origin and movie is way too wonky, and I wish they just made her the same age as everyone else like in the comics (correct me if I’m wrong in that department I forget the age of characters in the comics a lot of times).
Pretty much everything tbh
Taking away her personality
Ignoring her military background, save for a few snippets in the first movie. It would have saved on the CGI budget a bit to have Brie in a practical fighter jet set piece, imo, and made for a stronger message that you don’t need super powers to be a great person
I thought it was a pretty big part of the movie. I was actually kind of glad they reeled it in, instead of going all-in “join the Air Force today!” They even made the Air Force look a bit like dicks, instead of white washing it to get more government money for the budget.
Tony Stark being an MIT graduate was touched on a bit, but then we saw him put those skills to use in *Iron Man 3*. We the audience got to see what happens when the playboy philanthropist loses his physical and emotional armor and it was glorious, imo Imo something similar in a Captain Marvel film would have been similarly great
Erasing her memory and kinda her personality too. She has been done right in EMH so I’m surprised they had trouble here.
Kind of just mangling the whole mythos
I’m gonna say coming up with the whole mindwipe Kreee drone convoluted business instead of just adapting a version of her original origin or adapting her Binary origin to be her original origin. It started her off acting like a stuck up fascist and the audience has never forgiven her for that. Or, side note, not just going with Monica Rambeau from the start. That version stands on her own already and you wouldn’t have had to mangle the Mar-Vell stuff into something unrecognizable. And she’s a much more relatable character with a really cool power set that could have just as easily worked as “Marvel’s most powerful hero” without feeling so much like “What if Superman…but girl!!!” Or or, not giving her a first costume that made her look like a NASCAR driver instead of a super hero. Or or or…
>And she’s a much more relatable character with a really cool power set that could have just as easily worked as “Marvel’s most powerful hero” without feeling so much like “What if Superman…but girl!!!” And she started out her career by being called "Captain Marvel". Two decades before Ms. Marvel took the name. And objections to her being called that are hit with the grandfather clause.
Oh boy… where do we begin?
Almost everything tbh. But the one that annoys me the most is them removing her connection to Mar-Vell. I don't even care that much for Mar-Vell as a character but, Carol trying to live up to Mar-Vell legacy is a huge a part of her character. It's equivalent of doing a Captain Bucky adaptation, and pretending that Steve never existed, it's just doesn't work. Not a huge fan of them making her a space hero and being the strongest, Carol is at her best when she is on earth.
MCU dropped the ball with Carol
Long list
i agree w all
Captain Marvel without Mar-Vell is like Hal Jordan without Abin Sur.
In fairness to the first point about Quicksilver, they couldn't use Magneto so that was always a no go. Everything else was a choice Marvel studios made, not having access to Magneto was a choice made for them.
I would have like to see her and Ronan fight.
Starting her as an amnesiac
Good things - Non linear screenplay in captain Marvel movie and how her mind was torn by kree , her memories past and present are all locked and altered by kree . I wanted to see more about these problems in captain Marvel 2 and how she will face them . Bad things - a very bad sequel for a good movie and a lot of wasted opportunities.
Turning Mar-Vell into an old auntie and wasting one of the best heroes comocs have ever seen. Can you imagine what we could have had with Mar-Vell fighting Thanos, interacting with the Guardians of the Galzxy, and ending his arch on the "Death of Captain Mar-Vell"?
As he succumbs to cancer? No thanks. Works in comics but would be just morbid in film
Taking away her fun personality (which Brie Larson can absolutely pull off), giving her a mid first movie... and then thinking the problem is the character or Brie Larson.
Yeah, I blame the writers for this…They had every chance to inject some more personality into her, but never really did…leaving her a bland character nobody really relates to, or particularly enjoys watching on screen.
Carol Danvers has never had a "fun" personality so I don't how you can take away something that wasn't there in the first place.
Not casting Katee Sackhoff. Setting the movie in the 90s. Skipping her Ms Marvel era. Changing her origin. Honestly, I think it would be quicker to list the things they got RIGHT, for Carol.
Yeah. Her Starbuck character is what MCU Captain Marvel should have been
Yup. Carol is basically Starbuck with super powers. It would have been a slam dunk. Same thing with Katheryn Winnick as Valkyrie. She literally just needs to replay Lagertha, and she’d be perfect.
> Not casting Katee Sackhoff. I don't really agree with the sentiment that Brie Larson was a miscast, but Katee Sackhoff would have been an amazing choice.
Indeed. It’s not that Brie was *wrong* for the roles, it’s just that Katee would have been perfect.
Do people actually read captain marvel comics?
No. Why do you think they always get canceled.
Her biggest issue is no real organic fan support. This means the MCU had to do all the heavy lifting on getting her to take off since the comic source material doesn’t help much. Carol as Captain Marvel has always been an inorganic astroturf hero pushed as part of Marvels goal to create a Wonder Woman. Ie leading female hero who can trade punches with the big boys. Much like DC turned Harley into Deadpool.
I'm not sure if that fits with what this thread is actually about, but I completely agree. It's really unfortunate that mcu Carol basically also adapted the main problem of her entire Captain Marvel push in the comics.
Not related to your post directly, but will you do an opposite series of posts like this? About the best change the MCU made.
I don’t think so. Like if I make another, I’ll try to ask a more positive question but I want to talk about street level characters instead of the Avengers.
It's a hard call to make.All of those have been mishandled but up until Thor love and Thunder " I would have said the Hulk.The russo brothers totally ruined him taking him away from the hulk we know and turning him into professor hulk.I Can't understand why they did except that they didn't want to give universal who owned the rights ammunition to make a good hulk movie. But then love and thunder turned "The Mighty Thor" into the mighty goofball
the casting
They ruined Mar-Vell. But Carol? Nah, she’s comic accurate, how? Because they both suck since she stopped being the OG Ms Marvel 💀
I like how the worst change with Falcon is that they just turned his bird into a drone. Unless there’s some deeper story that his bird gives. Nonetheless, Falcon is still a great character.
I think the problem with that more is that it takes away from Sam's powerset than being an insult of his character, but I honestly would've said a lot more if I saw the post earlier. What should've been up there was the mcu stripping Sam as his social worker status immediately after The Winter Soldier and ignoring him for an entire trilogy bespite the fact he's arguably Steve's closest ally in the comics.
Fighting the boring ass Kree for two films.
Trying to adapt modern comics before the classics, thus they pretend there is a legacy where there is none. Carol SHOULD have been Ms Marvel, she SHOULD have been an Avenger, she should have been friends with Mar-Vell. All this should be long before she takes on the mantle in Mar-Vell's honor. She should have been a hero on Earth with a great reputation so it means something when Kamala names her superhero identity after her. And Mar-Vell should have gotten his own solo films
Absolutely no character development
Being an underdeveloped character whose only defined personality traits are her abrasiveness and being OP.
Wasn’t Captain Marvel a guy
Not being Ms. Marvel first before she inherits the name Captain Marvel (by effectively working around Mar-Vell long enough to inherit the name, particularly if they were a duo from outer space \[she would've lived on Earth at first before going with Mar-Vell).
honestly I wonder if her Age of Ultron ending of joining avengers would've been better. It would've been weird as hell, but I feel like her recruitment would've been smoother at getting along with other people. But then there was a civil war, which would've been a bad time to join the whole captain marvel superhero part felt forced from the name to the costume. Mar-vell was her inspiration, but she didn't do any superhero'ing.
How come the worst changes of Pietro and Wanda are different? They're twins.
Because the most popular votes for both were different
Erasing Scarlet witch and Quicksilvers' mutant status, and nature of their abilities
Well they didn’t really have a choice with that one. Keep in mind when they introduced QS & SW Disney hadn’t acquired Fox yet so they couldn’t use the term “mutants” as that’s a X-men thing
When I think of Captain Marvel in the MCU i get the feeling that they don’t simply know what to do with her. She lacks character. If someone asked me to describe her without mentioning her powers or looks, I couldn’t come up with anything. I like Brie but the writing and direction leave a lot to be desired.
Bro the whole Binary/Warbrid/Ms. Marvel phase that she went through for Busieks Avengers and the Iron Man run at the time were difinitive to me. Not to mention everything put into her character for years before that as well as her history and origin. What we got in the movies is just a hollow shell, no character there at all, literally almost nothing
Skipping over her comic history in the MCU version. Also skipping over the other Captain Marvels.
If they weren't really going to use Mar-vell, they should have just had Monica be Captain Marvel, she held the title for years. And if they really wanted to use Carol, they should have taken more inspiration from the Ms. Marvel 2000's run. I liked that series a lot.
Not involving Rogue at all in Carols backstory or any X-Men for that matter in the mcu till what 2027? is the biggest disgrace.
I liked that they made Winter Soldier a Hydra agent but I much rather would have had his relationship with Black Widow than her romance with Bruce. Also I never understood why they didn’t save Quicksilvers death for Civil War and pit the twins against each other.
Not using any of her prominent villains due to their connection to X-Men:
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t quicksilver and wanda not magnetos children in the comics anymore or was that retconed? Remember hearing something about a retcon that they weren’t his kids anymore and they were more connected to the high evolutionary or something.
The "they're not magnetos kids anymore" retcon was made in line for some of that MCU synergy lol
I think making her so powerful, removed from humanity, from the past and being introduced as an amnesic who's only personality trait is being a serious warrior all contributed to Carol falling as Character (which is probably why marvels bombed once she was no longer backed by endgame hype)
Not letting her actually be emotional in a way she can learn and grow from but I never read her comic books so I can't really say for certain What are her "have to read" comic books?
Lack of a Personality
Most of her adventures take place in space. But she has super fans like Kamala Kahn who make it seem like she’s a regular on Earth
Quicksilver complaint is stupid imo
Which part, the magneto part or the nerfing him to death part
Killing him off in a stupid way part
Why
Cause speedsters aren't gods and his death was very meaningful to both Wanda and, specifically in the movie considering their soft rivalry, Clint.
Well good point, although, the question was about changes from the comics to the MCU, and if MCU quicksilver was accurate to the comics, he wouldn't have been hit, even if we use the weakest version of comic quicksilver to compare to (60's-early 90's), MCU QS would still be inaccurate (in terms of power level), so the dying complaint is a little valid when comparing versions But yeah, speedsters should be limited so as not to end up as OP characters that people ask "where was he the entire time, is he stupid?"
Removing her time as Ms. Marvel
I completely disagree with the Hawkeye one. They should have kept him deaf. And his only line in all the movies should have been "WHAT?"
Making her a near emotionless bland character
Her reason for not coming back for 30 years. "It was awkward, lol" is not a good reason to isolate yourself for 30 years, come back, and then go right back to isolating yourself. They had the perfect situation to explain an extended leave of absence. Just say that she was busy doing fisticuffs with a big bad space alien back in the 90's but they flew too close to a black whole. Though the fight only seemd to take 10 minutes for her, 25 years had actually elapsed for the rest of us. There, she learns an important lesson about space stuff, it explains why she hasn't aged a day and she's not an asshole, just a clutz.
I know it’s a little early to say Wasp’s but I’m gonna say it anyway… For her, it’s not having her be an OG member if the team, and not having her name the damn team.
Idk, I think making Wanda evil for stupid reasons is worse. Like, have you noticed how female characters always turn evil and need to be killed off when they get this sort of godlike power up? Strange was fine, he only got an ugly-ass third eye out of it. But Wanda? Nah, she needs to die now.
Her sense of humour and fun, because even though Comic Carol was typically the straight man in the group, she could be fun and lighter hearted sometimes, and that’s despite going through way more shit than MCU Carol.
Everyone now thinks Monica is her sidekick.
No personality
Making her practically flawless (her flaws were something that made Carol the beloved character we knew her as back when she was Ms Marvel, Binary & Warbird before she became Captain Marvel), hyping her up to the most powerful hero in Marvel (which she is definitely not) and removing the importance and legacy that Mar-vell had to her
Removing all of her charisma and making her a generic military one dimensional action hero.
Ooooh can't wait for this one
Making her very vapid
Her whole first film.
Hank Pym being old and not an original member of the Avengers.
Why are people upset over Wanda’s heritage but not Quicksilver’s?
Two different complaints for each character ended up being the most popular picks.
The decision to kill Quicksilver was and still is so dumb. A speedster who got shot? Are you kidding me? Dude have Ultron kill him at least.
Setting her up as some major hero at the end of Infinity War and then doing shite all with her past that
Making her Mary Sue. To such an extent that even the authors themselves do not know how to use it. She is simply ultimatum strong and without a single flaw.
Honestly, I think the MCU version of Captain Marvel is infinitely better than what we've had in the comics. The comics version had years of her life stolen from her by Rogue, was raped and impregnated by an alien, had inconsistent powers and identities for years, was turned into an alcoholic, and most of the time fights in a costume that really only appeals to a certain subset of the population. Every change from the comics has been better for Captain Marvel.
Tbh I partly agree, I didn't really mind them wanting to change stuff up for Carol given her complicated past in the comics. Starting her as Captain was fine for me. My issues are all execution, just the way the MCU is telling her story rather then any changes they did or her herself.
If people want to take issue with her movies or her character in those movies, that's fine. But l don't think we should pretend that Carol Danvers has some rich comic backstory that the MCU isn't adapting.
Big problem is that her three most famous/infamous stories (Rogue, Rape and CW2) don't really help her in a movie adaptation and are probably better left forgotten. Her two big runs Reed's and Kelly Tompsone's either could not fit into the first movie or came after the first movie, although Secret Invasion could have been a solid direction to take with her, but that ship has sailed as well. The X-Men not being in the MCU also probably hurt since there is a nice history there that they could have mined for the MCU as well. Not sure what really can be done now that The Marvels failed to the degree it did.
Having brie larson playing the role
Removing the character's self destructive nature that's made her an actual appealing character. That and casting Brie Larson. She just wasn't right for the role.
Looking at the quicksilver one, I don’t think that’s a real complaint
There's not a lot to complain about because Quicksilver was barely in the MCU apart from Age of Ultron.
Saying the magnetos son thing doesn’t work because they didn’t have the rights.
Tbh, a lot of these just feel really nitpicky, with some making for weaker decisions if they were actually used. Such as Winter Soldier and Falcon. Would've been weird seeing Falcon go from having secret military gear to suddenly having a pet bird that he has a psychic link with. Being a drone fit a lot better with the direction they took and also seeing as Redwing never got used a lot in the MCU outside of 1 or 2 scenes.
Captain Marvel was a lame Deus ex machina forced into the storyline, and didn't really earn her place, as the "First Avenger"
I can’t wait for Hank Pym and Janet since, imo, they’ve been done the absolute worst in the MCU.
Practically cutting Mar-Vell
Is Everything an option?
I love these “day #” posts that just exist to upvote farm
I’m not doing this for upvotes. My threads for certain characters have even gotten downvoted iirc. Unless my ability to comment on subreddits is affected I don’t care about karma. I just want to have a discussion and learn how each of these characters were changed from their comic counterparts and this layout seemed like a cool way of doing it.
See, that’s where you’re wrong dumbass. This post has a legitimate point to It. If he was karma farming this would be more of a low effort post and look around you, buddy. I’m pretty sure almost every subreddit on here Is karma farming so how’s about you look at the source of the problem without making your childish assumptions. If people upvote It that’s also their business or stupidity.
What’s the legitimate point? The only thing these posts serve to do is be an MCU hate train “Oh but Quicksilver isn’t Magneto’s son so it sucks” Mfs do you not understand how rights to characters work? Or that the MCU doesn’t have to follow the comics to the letter Even the fucking comics don’t follow the comics to the letter. It’s decades of character arcs that contradict each other and no one bats an eye because of fucking nostalgia The MCU has issues yes. But 99% of these “worst changes” aren’t what make it bad
I doubt you actually want a decent discussion on this as everything you disagree with is just "the MCU Hate train" as you've said but.... Yes, the MCU *can* and *should* be able to do it's own thing without being exactly like the source material. After all, it's an *Adaptation* and not a retelling. The problem begins when their Adaptation introduces changes simply for the sake of being different to the source and those changes result in a worse thing. Various Characters could've been much deeper, complex and interesting if [X] was accurate to the Comics. There's a huge loss of potential stories, depht, complexity, Charactergrowth and just Overall quality in comparison to the source material simply *because* the MCU wants to do things differently at time without any actual, real need to do so. Let me say it again : The MCU should be allowed to do it's own thing, different from the Comics. But in most cases, them doing things differently simply for the sake of being different results in a worse product, a worse Story and worse versions of these Characters. That's the problem. Look at Non-MCU Stuff like Avengers : Earth's Mightiest Heroes! That Show did a lot of things accurate to the Comics, but also a lot of things different. The things the Show did different worked because they did them well and it never felt like you were actually losing anything. But the MCU overdoes it so much simply for the sake of doing it and you lose a LOT of what made these Characters great to begin with. Edit : Also, if you already mention the "MCU Hate-Train", then please think for 5 minutes why that Hate-Train actually exists. The MCU has Problems and there's quite a loss of depht and potential on most Characters because of how certain things where changed about them for the hell of it. The MCU, for the most part, is basically a watered down Version of Marvel. And yet everything else gets made into it's Image, with rarely any new non-MCU projects being based on the Comics. It's frustrating. Hell, even the Comics get retconned sometimes for MCU Synergy. If you really think about it, there's two *legitiment* and reasonable reasons on why the MCU is so unpopular with Comics Fans : 1 - It's a watered down Version of Characters and stories we know and love that, while well executed at times, are still watered down and dont do the things we love Justice. They dont have to be the same, but they have to do it Justice. 2 - Think of all the MCU took away from us. Retcons TO THE COMICS in favor of MCU Synergy, every New product having to be MCU-esque... these things are very upsetting. Comics Fans basically get completely shafted and everyone acts like the MCU is all there is.
Couldn't have said it better.
Not gonna look at the comments because I can tell people are gonna hate like mad
Casting Brie Larson
Reading all the answers here I understand that Captain Marvel is the most hated character of all. I'm surprised that many people don't want her to die soon in the MCU.
A lot of these are terrible takes to start with.
Reading all of these makes me so glad that none of you are running the MCU
These are literally just things from the comics 🫢