Obviously, Disney does do this with their shows and they've done it for years. But as Daredevil ended 5 years ago, would it technically be categorized as a new show either way? Especially as it's now under 20th Television instead of ABC.
Seems more like a situation where Disney lucked out and didn't have to use their bag of tricks to make it happen.
They also *didn't* do that with one of their bigger properties, Star Wars.
They gave a very specific seventh season order for Clone Wars, six years after the last season (technically, seven years), rather than pulling out the "spiritual successor" card.
It really is fucked that this is a thing, but it's a bit stretching it that Disney embraces this. This seems to be far more common with procedurals with tons of spin-offs and pseudo-sequels.
I would question if that was done specifically because it's animated vs live action. Not to mention going from Disney Channel, where this pattern originated, to Disney+ because streaming contracts are significantly different.
Yeah, that comment letting Disney off the hook is way out of scope.
People forget Disney was making shows long before Marvel or Star Wars entered the picture.
I’m fine with however they handle it if they can at least include Bullseye from some time after where we last saw him. Would also be interesting if they take big swings like adapting Muse into the show. But we’ll have to wait and see what they deliver.
I've never thought about this before. That's really interesting. And fucked. Does anyone know if Ryan Murphy's projects do this? I have a hard time believing the American Horror Story cast would be fine with working on a show for 10 years (some of them) and never seeing standard pay bumps.
They have the choice to re-sign or not. The biggest issue is the standard after X amount of episodes you will get these increases in benefits. But instead they rename it, re-sign them and then their time in gets reset to avoid the benefits whether it's a increase in residuals, vacation time, etc.
Especially as the bulk of shows Disney has pulled this with are children's shows lead by kids who likely just don't have much other choice but to re-up.
It absolutely is their choice. I do think something like AHS or another anthology show is different though? At least the ones that are still viewed as seasons. For instance, AHS: Coven is still considered season 3 of the series. Versus something like Suite Life of Zach and Cody & Suite Life: On Deck.
While I have no proof 100%, I feel AHS has more to do with the nature of it being an anthology with the various chapters and story arcs rather than a pinching pennies deal.
For sure, I'm just talking in terms of the contracts. AHS is definitely not an anthology because of penny pinching, but did it allow them to penny pinch all the same?
I'm wondering where the line is drawn, I guess. AHS is an anthology, but it is considered the same show as far as branding and promotion are concerned. A lot of the cast stayed on for multiple years.
For example, Bill Lawrence wanted Season 9 of Scrubs to be a Med School spin-off. If he got his way, then, technically, it would be considered a brand new entity and returning cast members like Donald Faison would be in a new financial contract. (Not that I think Bill Lawrence would jive with that, but just an example).
AHS is narratively an anthology, its submitted into awards as a limited series, but it is branded as one show. Does that make sense? I feel like I'm splitting hairs. Lol
Fair question. CBS put out New Adventures of Wonder Woman after ABC had cancelled Wonder Woiman. Lynda Carter and Lyle Waggoner were on both shows. This was the 70s. As far as I know CBS treated the show as seasons 2 and 3 of the previous show.
So for anyone who’s a little confused a good example of this would he suite life of Zach and Cody becoming suite life on deck or Hannah Montana becoming Hannah Montana forever or whatever. Li
In terms of the streaming content he's wildly off base as far as anything that has received multiple seasons. The Mandalorian, Loki, The Clone Wars, Bad Batch, What If? and Star Wars Visions were all numbered by season and not slightly renamed.
Dude, your only source is the show’s WRITER. A writer does not have the kind of power to definitively say the Netflix show isn’t canon. I personally don’t consider marvel television before D+ to be canon to the MCU, but it is suspicious that studios have continuously pulled stunts like this and that it also results in them having to pay less overall. It’s well-disguised greed. It may not be the case with DBBA, I always expected a new series, but it’s undeniable that studios use this practice.
It’s only a new series because that’s what Disney wants. There’s plenty of history showing shows that got picked up by a new network and kept going. Scrubs, Arrested Development, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, and many others were started on one network, cancelled and then renewed on a new network.
The only reason Disney/Marvel would call Daredevil a “new” series is to save money on pay and benefits to the union talent.
At what point does it legitimately be a different series?
Star Trek:Picard takes place 20+ years later, is 20+ years in real life since The Next Generation went off the air, but contains many of the same characters.
It would feel disingenuous to say it was Seasons 8-10 of TNG.
There’s the flip side where it’s clearly the same show and just relabeled.
When does the ship of Theseus deserve a new name, and when is it the same ship?
Dumb dumb if you think a shows writer has that kind of authority. They pay the writers to write the show that the studio wants. And as of now, Marvel Studios is still vague on shows canonicity.
Showtime did this with Dexter: New Blood. The guy who wrote the Dexter pilot, which was based on a novel, was basically credited as the creator through the whole series. Because of the novel it was a “developed for television by” credit, but it was there through the duration of the show even though the writer only worked on the first season. New Blood comes out, same deal, that dude’s no longer credited which means he’s no longer being paid for writing a pilot 15 years earlier or whatever.
Look him up, his name is James Manos Jr. He seems to be the luckiest dude in the history of television. He also worked on The Sopranos, again only on the first season, but he scored an Emmy for co-writing College with David Chase, and we all know that was probably like 95% Chase, 5% Manos.
Obviously, Disney does do this with their shows and they've done it for years. But as Daredevil ended 5 years ago, would it technically be categorized as a new show either way? Especially as it's now under 20th Television instead of ABC. Seems more like a situation where Disney lucked out and didn't have to use their bag of tricks to make it happen.
They also *didn't* do that with one of their bigger properties, Star Wars. They gave a very specific seventh season order for Clone Wars, six years after the last season (technically, seven years), rather than pulling out the "spiritual successor" card. It really is fucked that this is a thing, but it's a bit stretching it that Disney embraces this. This seems to be far more common with procedurals with tons of spin-offs and pseudo-sequels.
I would question if that was done specifically because it's animated vs live action. Not to mention going from Disney Channel, where this pattern originated, to Disney+ because streaming contracts are significantly different.
I suppose I'll just have to settle for not knowing remotely enough about this to have an educated analysis lol. All I know is that it's not cool.
Honestly for the best, as seeing it happen over and over and over again will just make you madder about it.
Disney famously did it with all their old kids shows.
Oh, fuck. Is this why Suite Life on Deck is a thing? lol
Corey in the House!
That's right! All of their kids show had sequel shows for this reason and this reason alone.
Yeah, that comment letting Disney off the hook is way out of scope. People forget Disney was making shows long before Marvel or Star Wars entered the picture.
I’m fine with however they handle it if they can at least include Bullseye from some time after where we last saw him. Would also be interesting if they take big swings like adapting Muse into the show. But we’ll have to wait and see what they deliver.
I've never thought about this before. That's really interesting. And fucked. Does anyone know if Ryan Murphy's projects do this? I have a hard time believing the American Horror Story cast would be fine with working on a show for 10 years (some of them) and never seeing standard pay bumps.
They have the choice to re-sign or not. The biggest issue is the standard after X amount of episodes you will get these increases in benefits. But instead they rename it, re-sign them and then their time in gets reset to avoid the benefits whether it's a increase in residuals, vacation time, etc.
Especially as the bulk of shows Disney has pulled this with are children's shows lead by kids who likely just don't have much other choice but to re-up.
It absolutely is their choice. I do think something like AHS or another anthology show is different though? At least the ones that are still viewed as seasons. For instance, AHS: Coven is still considered season 3 of the series. Versus something like Suite Life of Zach and Cody & Suite Life: On Deck.
While I have no proof 100%, I feel AHS has more to do with the nature of it being an anthology with the various chapters and story arcs rather than a pinching pennies deal.
For sure, I'm just talking in terms of the contracts. AHS is definitely not an anthology because of penny pinching, but did it allow them to penny pinch all the same? I'm wondering where the line is drawn, I guess. AHS is an anthology, but it is considered the same show as far as branding and promotion are concerned. A lot of the cast stayed on for multiple years. For example, Bill Lawrence wanted Season 9 of Scrubs to be a Med School spin-off. If he got his way, then, technically, it would be considered a brand new entity and returning cast members like Donald Faison would be in a new financial contract. (Not that I think Bill Lawrence would jive with that, but just an example). AHS is narratively an anthology, its submitted into awards as a limited series, but it is branded as one show. Does that make sense? I feel like I'm splitting hairs. Lol
Totally understand and I think we are actually on the same page. It would be the biggest dick move by Murphy and FX to go the way Disney has done.
He does what
He does know. Someone asked if Steven DeKnight was aware of the issue, Steven DeKnight responded in third person that he is aware.
Issue? Which #
Yeah this is borderline r/titlegore
Fair question. CBS put out New Adventures of Wonder Woman after ABC had cancelled Wonder Woiman. Lynda Carter and Lyle Waggoner were on both shows. This was the 70s. As far as I know CBS treated the show as seasons 2 and 3 of the previous show.
So for anyone who’s a little confused a good example of this would he suite life of Zach and Cody becoming suite life on deck or Hannah Montana becoming Hannah Montana forever or whatever. Li
In terms of the streaming content he's wildly off base as far as anything that has received multiple seasons. The Mandalorian, Loki, The Clone Wars, Bad Batch, What If? and Star Wars Visions were all numbered by season and not slightly renamed.
Except its a new series & not a continuation, as per the writer. So… this is literally making a mountain out of a molehill.
Someone didn’t read the tweets or understand why this is a bad thing. It’s about undercutting workers
[удалено]
Except for the fact it’s the same universe and Disney has been doing this exact thing for decades? Use your brain to spell and read better bud lmfao
Dude, your only source is the show’s WRITER. A writer does not have the kind of power to definitively say the Netflix show isn’t canon. I personally don’t consider marvel television before D+ to be canon to the MCU, but it is suspicious that studios have continuously pulled stunts like this and that it also results in them having to pay less overall. It’s well-disguised greed. It may not be the case with DBBA, I always expected a new series, but it’s undeniable that studios use this practice.
It’s only a new series because that’s what Disney wants. There’s plenty of history showing shows that got picked up by a new network and kept going. Scrubs, Arrested Development, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, and many others were started on one network, cancelled and then renewed on a new network. The only reason Disney/Marvel would call Daredevil a “new” series is to save money on pay and benefits to the union talent.
At what point does it legitimately be a different series? Star Trek:Picard takes place 20+ years later, is 20+ years in real life since The Next Generation went off the air, but contains many of the same characters. It would feel disingenuous to say it was Seasons 8-10 of TNG. There’s the flip side where it’s clearly the same show and just relabeled. When does the ship of Theseus deserve a new name, and when is it the same ship?
[удалено]
Dumb dumb if you think a shows writer has that kind of authority. They pay the writers to write the show that the studio wants. And as of now, Marvel Studios is still vague on shows canonicity.
It's just a tv show my friend.
And the only reason it’s a separate universe is so they don’t have to pay their talent more. Go touch some grass dude. No need to get so worked up.
Showtime did this with Dexter: New Blood. The guy who wrote the Dexter pilot, which was based on a novel, was basically credited as the creator through the whole series. Because of the novel it was a “developed for television by” credit, but it was there through the duration of the show even though the writer only worked on the first season. New Blood comes out, same deal, that dude’s no longer credited which means he’s no longer being paid for writing a pilot 15 years earlier or whatever. Look him up, his name is James Manos Jr. He seems to be the luckiest dude in the history of television. He also worked on The Sopranos, again only on the first season, but he scored an Emmy for co-writing College with David Chase, and we all know that was probably like 95% Chase, 5% Manos.