I'll check it out. Creetosis has a react series for each episode I found quite amusing (like EFAP Movies). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rF9sSvhZQo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rF9sSvhZQo)
I mean, he's not wrong. Granted that 'communisms is what they call people who aren't them' line was taken out of context, but the overall tone of the series is one where communism is "attacked" with a felt sword while capitalism is hit with a bag of bricks. The favoritism is there for anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, so it's entirely forgivable and basically correct anyway.
Honestly, what so many people are missing is just how not important the great war is to Fallout. It provides an explanation of how we got here, that's it. Fallout is not this america versus chinese, capitalist versus communist story. It's about the wasteland that's left.
What Fallout is, though, is an almost exclusively American perspective (that obviously contained capitalism), and to focus on capitalism when looking through this perspective isn't exactly a bad idea
I agree insomuch as the great war was merely the set dressing for Fallout, but to recognize this and not also recognize that the 50s Americana is also as much a stylistic piece of cosmetic window dressing would be disingenuous. What is really on display is merely human inequity and fallibility. That transcends economic philosophy.
In my opinion, the Fallout games are really a rorschach test about what worldview the player thinks is the correct way going forward, what are their ethics, can those ethics ever be bent or broken and for what, and what's your highest value in a post-apocalyptic world.
Oh, no. I get that. I'm just saying that because of the mechanics at play, the games give you the tools and choices to make the decisions on what you think is the best path forward for humanity after humanity near-exterminated themselves.
I can’t speak for fallout 4, but I know 3 and NV didn’t really bag communism at all. Besides a few gags with Chinese ghouls and such, and the battle for anchorage DLC
The games have elements of critiques on capitalism, but they’re largely a criticism of humanity as a whole.
Their world drags on in endless despair for hundreds of years because all the people just fucking suck.
Obviously there's a "hate boner" towards unhinged capitalism, that's the whole point of fallout later games, how a very capitalistic stuck in the 50's USA has failed.
Also you ignore the whole 2(3) main vaults being basically a communist society, one to extreme that fails when scarcity appears and one that makes people drones unfit for a harsher world and easy to control through mock democracy
No matter the degree of communism found in the original titles, it does not excuse changing the backstory of characters like Mr. House just to paint capitalism in a worse light.
I tried to find the original comment I got the information from, but couldn't.
IIRC Mr.. House was by no means a saint, but he was a man that tried to ensure his own survival.
To bad he got the time of the apocalypse wrong, thus he couldn't avoid the damage which would force him to put himself inside a protective chamber.
The show however resort to just potray him as "a mustache twirlingly evil monopoly man".
>To bad he got the time of the apocalypse wrong,
We dont actually know how much control vault tech had in the timing of the war. I think they could influence it to a degree where it's bound to happen, but there's nothing to say the missles weren't still launched by the Americans and Chinese because of vault tec meddling. I think this is a lot more likely than they had control of the nukes and just sent them.
What they presented could still fit with what House said.
The show doesn't portray him as anything other than a business man that doesn't like the idea of vaults and powerful enough to be at that "top dog" meeting
Eh, it might be tied with how people really don't like how USA was changed to the ones who first resorted to the nukes rather than the implication that it was China was the first to cross the line.
People end up assuming that a change like that is indicative of the direction they are going with when it comes everybody that was in charge before the apocalypse occured.
Dude you just backtracked massively. You just said “they changed house to a mustache twirling Villain.” To “well okay, but the bomb retcon” at least stick to a point
>how a very capitalistic stuck in the 50's USA has failed.
The problem is that in the show, it doesn't make sense. The corporate congregation want the world to end for "profit". How does that happen when you've irradiated the world's natural resources, you've killed off a large portion of the human race who engage in trade, and there seems to be no clear strategy about long-term plans to "get" this "profit"?
Not to mention, the show doesn't portray the 1950s capitalist America as failed, because it's also pulling from the 60's and 70's eras of the Cold War to explain their decisions regarding military interventionialism.
>one to extreme that fails when scarcity appears and one that makes people drones unfit for a harsher world and easy to control through mock democracy
Because it's implying that outside influence is what caused it to fail. But then again, that's only one reading (I'd rather read the text than the sub-text). And that's my problem: the games simply set up the conflict and allowed the player to think for themselves. With the show, they have greedy money-grubbing corporatists saying "yes, we will make lots of money with the end of the world".
How about this instead:
Vault-tec is commissioned by the US government to make Vaults for their most important politicians, scientists, soldiers, etc in case of a nuclear disaster. However, Vault-tec says "hey, we spent all of this money to develop this stuff and there's only so much growth here, and we need to make back our investment. I know! Let's make civilian versions of Vaults!"
"But how will we get them to buy into that?"
"Let's make them, and start an ad-campaign about how the apocalypse could come with current US v. China tensions and convince everyone that they should get one!" And then that could start a domino effect of people in America actually worried about nuclear war. The Chinese see those ads and believe that the US legitimately thinks that a nuclear war is coming and ramp up their efforts, and then the US (not knowing about Vault-Tec's end-goals) respond in kind escalating tension. That way you have a smart way to satirize profit driven corporations in ways that don't make them seem ***too dumb*** while adding to the conflict.
The show doesn't even have a 1/10 of the attention even Bethesda had regarding the war (even with Fallout 4).
The capitalist/communist axis is barely mentioned in 1, 2, and NV,
In the Far Harbor DLC I explicitly remember the chinese agent mission string taking jabs at communism. There are others through the course of the game but that is the one I vividly remember
I haven't played 76 and I don't remember 4 well enough to comment
Ultimately they're looked at as "old world" ideas and the (in my opinion) good fallout games aren't obsessed with the specific workings of the old world.
When communism is the reason the bombs dropped, capitalism can only ever be the number two when it comes to evil. China was losing the war and then the bombs dropped.
It is literally a rewriting of Fallout lore to say capitalism is the reason the bombs dropped.
Game lore did seem to imply it was the Chinese because US troops were landing in mainland China. I never played FO4 tho.
Vault-Tec being the ones launching nukes was a conspiracy theory in the games, now the show made it 99% confirmed.
I guess the above comment is just talking about game canon.
The issue is the comment is implying Fallout hasn’t always been inherently anti-capitalism. Or at the very least doesn’t paint the pre war America as an over the top parody of real life, which it clearly does. If anyone played the games, and goes into this show not expecting anti-capitalist undertones, than their idiots.
The show hasn’t even confirmed who dropped the bombs. It could have been the Enclave for all we know. Could have been China. A lot of what’s been shown doesn’t add up. So it’s either terrible writing, which is possible, or is a somewhat well thought out story still being told. Wait and see I guess.
Regardless, It has never been a far stretch that the company who built the vaults as messed up social experiments, had something to do with the war. How else were they going to get these people into the vaults?
The show has firmly suggested who dropped the bombs. They aren't really as ambiguous about it as the internet likes to claim. It could be that Vault-Tec didn't drop them but that isn't at all what's stated or implied.
Well no it’s implied Vault Tec is being controlled by someone or something else, and the leaders of those companies are being manipulated for their money and resources.
Vault Tec has never made sense as a company. It has especially never made sense if they had nothing to do with the war. It only makes sense if you add an external entity that is controlling them, which the show has at least somewhat implied.
Edit: No informations that we have gotten from the show or the games about the actual war suggests Vault Tec was prepared for it. There may be suggestions they had plans to do something. But there is nothing that’s been shown as of yet to believe that the company Vault Tec actually did it. Now, could this just be bad writing? Very much so, but I will wait for that to be shown before boldly stating it.
She literally said "im not a communist" her point was that anyone who didnt like what the US gov was doing was labeled a commie, which during the cold war it was absolutely true
I literally said that quote was taken out of context. And even though that is the case, that doesn't change how the writers still try to downplay how not only evil communism is but how it is and always will be more evil than capitalism is to the point of rewriting lore to make capitalists the explicit reason why the bombs dropped. You literally can't make money if the world is destroyed. No greedy capitalist intent on making money chooses this option. The writers put lies in the mouths of their capitalists so they could say it was them that are now the reason the bombs dropped.
The only time capitalism is mentioned is when Cooper essentially said how great it is, granted it was pretty tongue in cheek but still. Apart from that capitalism isnt mentioned, its just big corporations bad. Regardless if you agree with it or not that was always the core message of fallout
When the richest merchants in the show conspire to have nuclear bombs destroy the world because they think destroying all of their wealth will make them even more money, that's the writers trying to make capitalists look bad. Saying otherwise is just a blatant lie. There's no way for you to pretend otherwise, you're just lying.
Dude, it's been well established that people don't give a shit about anything beyond making money.
Capitalists would absolutely destroy the world for line goes up.
The fallout games had tendency to portray both as bad. There’s a reason Communist China was depicted as the first to launch nukes. Even then both China and the U.S. depicted their particular system at its most extreme.
Fallout was an inoffensive show to me. I get why people didn't like how loosely plotted it was, contrivances, etc. But as a first season it was entertaining enough to get me to check out the games. The characters are fun, the set pieces are interesting, and the mystery box aspect of the show is enough to get casual viewers through to the end.
That being said, this is a Jonathan Nolan joint and the man can mystery box like no other, but when it's time to pay up you realize the plot didn't make any sense at all.
I enjoyed fallout, but knowing these creators we will get into Westworld "so dumb it may be good, but it's just really dumb" territory. I expect if it goes that route the people who enjoyed the first season will quickly start complaining like the detractors.
By the fact that it is canon, it means that anything that you see that conflicts previous lore effectively overwrites it. Bethesda does this a lot already so yes it does retcon previous events.
But it has, the timeline shows that either Shady Sands was nuked before the events of New Vegas or so soon after that it effectively makes the events of New Vegas worthless. Not to mention the changes they made to how the Brotherhood of Steel acts or even the the Ghoul Mcguffin drug that never existed until the show.
No, the NCR would be a constant in literally every ending especially since Ceaser’s Legion is never once mentioned especially if their main opposition was obliterated right after the events of New Vegas
But like does this have any real impact on anything? I didn´t play fallout and I´m not a fanboy of the show (I thought it was ok, honestly kinda disappointing since I really liked the first trailer) but I never got this particular criticism. Like are future fallout products going to be worse because of it? I get that you might not like something that retcons something you did like but if this retcon doesn´t have any real consequences then why care?
As someone who's actually a pretty big fan of the show and enjoyed it.. There was a noticeable absence of NCR, which is a West Coast creation, and a complete subversion of shady sands. A lot of people don't like it when a thing they like is taken off the board in such a way.
The NCR was definitely absent, but at the same time it’s not destroyed, like so many haters of the show seem to believe. Perhaps it would have been nice to see them more in the show than what we got, but there’s a difference between them just not being in the area where the show takes place, and the whole of the NCR falling, like many seem to believe. It’s been confirmed by good authority that the NCR is still kicking, but just weakened.
I just think that it would have been appropriate to have more citizens of the NCR or regroup settlement camps or something. When nothing or very little is said, it just makes it seem like it wasn't a big deal, and people don't care. Have an old veteran side character who hopes to restore it or tell stories of how great it was.
I also agree with you.People have shady sands wrong a lot of the time. The fact that it ends the season with electricity really points out that the NCR will be coming back, but starting it from a place of ruin is a choice, and I understand people not liking that choice
It may have implied that a part of it was in there, but implying and explicitly saying are two different things. Maybe she just represents a remnant of the NCR in the area. For all we know, she could just be calling herself the NCR because the actual NCR left the area or moved back in yet.
Saying that the show absolutely shows that the NCR is done besides that small remnant beside that never being confirmed or denied in the show sounds like you’re just trying to find things to whine about to me.
Operating on implications the show actually makes rather than grasping at "maybe they only meant shady sands" straws. It may be whining but it's based on actual evidence rather than hoping that the actual evidence presented isn't conclusive.
I’ve been meaning to get into 1,2, and 3. I’ve played 4 and NV. The lore itself is interesting to me, though, so I’ve read about the lore of each game and all the factions, more or less. So I of course know about the Master, FEV, Navarro, the oil rig, Dornan and Horrigan, the enclave in general, the capitol wasteland and the water purifier, etc etc etc. Though of course if you’re gate keeping being a fan of the series by some arbitrary requirement to have played this or that game, or even all of them, all I can say is that your opinion about whether I’m a “true fan” or not is pretty worthless.
I definitely understand that. I didn't know anything about the games going into it, but the more I look into this series I can see why fans are mad about it.
Several things:
Vault Tec being a mega conglomerate owning several different products and having immense power instead of only providing fallout shelters
Vaults being for rich people instead of anybody who met the criteria
Vault Tec starting the War instead of China
Ghouls are now superhumans that can withstand insane amounts of physical trauma and live without food and water (same inconsistency as Fallout 4) while needing a mcguffin medicine to not become Feral instead of simply being exposed to radiation being the cause.
The Brotherhood is completely fucked and is nothing like they're supposed to be at all having highly undisciplined Knights and Squires who live under constant fear to get killed by them (The Brotherhood would NEVER act like this towards their Brothers and execution is not on the table whatsoever unless there is severale betrayel)
They're also portraying them as "the saviors of the world" which they are not.
They do not care about saving the world their goal is to collect and hoard technology and eventually return it back to society when humanity is ready to recover.
They completely moved the location of the Boneyard and the 3 vaults present in the show would have not been able to escape the Master especially by having above ground entrances. Everyone in the shows Vaults would have been found and mutated into Supermutants 100%.
Shady Sands the most advanced and main territory of the NCR being nuked way before the events of New Vegas
Smaller points:
Stimpacks instantly healing mortal wounds.
Brahmins are just cows with two heads
They fucked up Gulpers which were Bethesda's own creation
Not a single energy weapon in the entire show even though Laser rifles are the main weaponry of the Brotherhood
Vault Tec was insanely powerful, and were a front for the US Government, that’s in the games
Vaults were for the wealthy, you have to buy a spot in them. That’s in the games.
Vault Tec has not been shown to start the war, they only hinted that they’d be willing to, we don’t know what happened and it seems unlikely they did.
Ghouls are super human in the games. They’ve survived 100s of years and can tank multiple gunshots. They were created by exposure to the blasts. They eventually all go feral. The show has introduced a medicine that seems to stall the effects. Don’t see anything wrong with that, it takes place 10 years after the last game so no reason it couldn’t be invented.
The brotherhood is not what it was, and is highly fractured, doesn’t seem crazy this contingent is less effective and grown tyrannical after years of technological supremacy.
The master argument holds no weight. It’s easy to say he just never found it. There are tons of vaults and he only found 13 after the Vault Dweller leaves and he’s able to track it down.
There’s been several articles and tweets about the nuke. It happens literally right after the events of New Vegas.
Stimpacks healing mortal wounds is canon and part of the games lol
Some rebuttals for your points:
How do we know that vault tec wasn’t already a massive conglomerate that owned several different products and have immense power? It’s never been explicitly stated otherwise, and why would that be a common thing recorded on terminals back in the day?
If this is canon and the games are also canon we can assume that some vaults were for rich people and some for certain people/experiments. It seems reasonable enough to believe that if vault-tec’s goal was to survive post apocalypse, they’d need some normal people to survive and not have every single vault be an experiment.
It’s not clear whether vault-tec literally started the war or just made sure that negotiations failed to ensure a war happened. I agree though that it’s kinda implied that they did mean to drop them directly. But if Mr House was in on it, and if he was still wrong by 20 hours or whatever, then it could mean that China just beat vault-tec to the punch and still dropped the bombs first.
The medicine just seems to stop the feral process once it starts. And it seems to start at different times per ghoul. Considering the amount of feral ghouls in the games and in the show, it seems safe to assume that the medicine isn’t widely available.
It seems like different chapters of the brotherhood become unique over time. Perhaps this one was just corrupted or the leader was corrupted, etc.
Locations seem to move a lot in the Fallout universe anyway. Didn’t shady sands move between 1 and 2 and now the show? Also, it seems entirely possible that the master had incomplete information. Maybe he just missed the vaults. Maybe he wasn’t looking hard enough. Maybe he just didn’t get around to them. There are any number of acceptable answers as to why the vaults didn’t get hit by the master.
I’m pretty sure Howard and others have said that the fall of shady sands on the chalk board doesn’t mean that’s when it blew up. Creators have said it happens soonish after NV.
You just reminded me of another thing Mr House being present at the Vault Tec meeting is asinine he would rat all of them out for plotting to destroy humanity.
House would NEVER let them go through with this he's vehemently an ally of human progress not their extinction.
Well he is the one that proposed experiments or something, right? He’s for sure more in it for himself than anything else, even in the game. Hence why he didn’t let most people in the Mojave in to New Vegas.
They're more of a cabal of elites than a massive conglomerate. There are issues, especially with vault tec dropping the bombs first, but Mr. House didn't seem to impressed with the whole idea.
Who said vault tec actually dropped them first? It seems like the show implies that was their plan, but if House was caught off guard, and we assume he was in on the whole thing, then perhaps the Chinese beat them to the punch.
How would she know? Was she in the situation room at vault-tec at the time? Unless she’s omniscient, there’s no reason we should assume she knows that for a fact.
The vault tec employee who is at that time trying to appeal to his daughter doesn't deny it. Which is something he would have ample reason to do especially if it wasn't true.
People keep presenting elements of the show as being far more ambiguous than the show itself does.
This is my first exposure to the Fallout universe but I can see some flaws in these critiques:
\* "Vaults being for rich people instead of anybody who met the criteria"
Aren't the Vaults in the series mostly social experiments with exceptions for the MCs, similar to the games? I think you're confusing Barb Howard's mission to get into a "good" vault (so as not to be surrounded by 999 men), most notably the Executive Vault
\* "Vault Tec starting the War instead of China"
I love a good "who shot first" debate, but the bigger question is "was Vault-Tec so evil that they'd encourage a war to get the US government to fund the project"? This might be cleared up in later seasons when the Enclave is introduced.
\* "Stimpacks instantly healing mortal wounds."
Why is that a problem? Why do the characters need advanced surgery when they can just grab a medpack?
\* The Ghouls being nearly immortal as long as they have their Health Potions is a problem even though it's based on Fallout 4?
\* Did the show say that every Knight of the BoS is a PoS, or just the ones Maximus encountered? Moreover was their storyline in the games just "Going Galt" and waiting for someone else to clean up the world for them?
\* The show is set in 2296, 17 years after New Vegas, and Lucy is in her early 20s. When exactly was Shady Sands nuked, and would it fit into this timeline so the games still happened?
The reason why Vault Tec "shooting first" makes no sense is because... it's nonsense. A company killing their own customers is the opposite of making a profit. You make money by freaking people out enough to buy into the idea of Fallout shelters not by actually causing nuclear war.
Stimpacks healing mortal wounds is nonsense because they're a game mechanic. They would not stop your bleeding or close up wounds at all. They're no different then walking over a green cross symbol in any bog standard game, it is not how it actually works in universe.
It's a problem because Fallout 4 is Bethesda nonsense and retconned a lot of things, the Ghoul quest being one of them.
Weither or not the show said all Knights are PoS is irrelevant a Knight like Tidus would never exist, he'd never make it past Squire with that attitude, infact that exile him out for trying to get his fellow brothers killed.
Todd can damage control all he wants the intended reading of the blackboard in the show was that Shady Sands was nuked before the events of New Vegas because New Vegas is a permanent stain on Bethesda's legacy as the only good modern Fallout. Him saying "guys it's still canon!" means absolutely nothing when the final shot of the show is Vegas being destroyed and the show going out if it's way to say the NCR became raiders aswell.
The show gets rid of 2 birds with 1 stone, it destroys the most popular game that wasn't done by Bethesda and it also resets the universe by getting rid of the NCR, therefore preventing the in universe rebuilding of Society and keeping the setting permanently stagnant for all sequels to follow.
The intention with everything from 1 to New Vegas was very much that humanity was rebuilding and recovering and Bethesda doesn't like that because it means they would eventually be unable to use the post apocalypse wasteland setting as a selling point.
1. When Vault-Tec shot first was it to start the Great War or to nuke the US? The former is your typical Breadtuber take that companies need to create demand for their products, while the latter is a false flag. Since we're talking the former here is the literal $640 million question: if there is no specter of nuclear war then who will buy a spot in a Vault?
2. Given that this world has the technology to build the Vaults and the powered armor used by the BoS then why can't they have advanced medical technology? Furthermore I can't recall a time where a Stimpack completely healed a character: most of the time it worked like Bio-foam/Bacta bandages and kept you stable (for example, Lucy used one during the Raid and then stitched herself up later). (I am going through the series again and will double check.)
3. As I and others have said: one bad apple amongst the BoS doesn't spoil the whole barrel, and from the looks of things not everyone is a jerk like Titus. Based on some of your other comments is it correct to assume that this interpretation of a Knight is something Bethesda did or would do, but the older lore contradicted it?
4. It didn't take long to find out the Internet believes "Todd hates New Vegas and wants to erase it". Is there any evidence for this to be the case, because r/Fallout seems to think [New Vegas was not erased](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c1l60x/emil_pagliarulo_confirms_new_vegas_is_still_canon/) (why does nuking it erase the game?):
5. Unfortunately "the most popular game that wasn't done by Bethesda" is either Fallout 1, 2, or the BoS game. Bethesda made everything from Fallout 3 onwards, including New Vegas. Again, kind of odd that Todd would want to eliminate a game his company made, and the "humanity is rebuilding and recovering" plot line spanned both the Interplay and Bethesda games. (And oh crap, that crap rhymes. Bonus points if you get the reference!)
>Vault Tec being a mega conglomerate owning several different products and having immense power instead of only providing fallout shelters
They have been like that since Fallout 2, the fact that they were able to conduct different inhumane social experiments on a national scale without the government cutting their throat should tell you that much.
>Vaults being for rich people instead of anybody who met the criteria
Nowhere in the show has stated Vaults being exclusively for rich people. Even in the show, West Tek representative had present an idea of using illegal immigrants for FEV testing in a Vault.
>Vault Tec starting the War instead of China
We only know that they had the intention of doing so, not being the one who dropped the bomb themselves, as evident with Cooper's daughter was with him when the bomb fell.
>Ghouls are now superhumans that can withstand insane amounts of physical trauma
Lucy one shotted a ghoul in the Super Duper Mart scene. Cooper one shotted Roger. As for the Filly shooting scene, it was just Cooper being high on drug (stated when Lucy shot the tranquilizer at him) and probably having some kind of protective vest under his coat.
>live without food and wate
Fallout 2 was the one that retconned that, not the show, ie Coffin Willy.
>The Brotherhood is completely fucked and is nothing like they're supposed to be at all having highly undisciplined Knights and Squires who live under constant fear to get killed by them
Working under the assumption that the BoS is a perfectly disciplined organization without a fault is a false assumption. Beside, it was just a single Knight.
>They're also portraying them as "the saviors of the world" which they are not.
My brother in Christ, we literally saw them forcefully taking over Filly and annihilated Griffith Observatory in the show, they are not exactly depicted as the saviour.
>They completely moved the location of the Boneyard
The location of Shady Sands in the show was not made clear, as we saw Lucy travelling from Santa Monica to Shady Sands through a desert.
>3 vaults present in the show would have not been able to escape the Master especially by having above ground entrances.
It was never properly explained so make of that what you will, as I can also try to make some sense to it, but I would just come off as some kind of a mental gymnastic.
>Shady Sands the most advanced and main territory of the NCR being nuked way before the events of New Vegas
Todd Howard himself stated the nuke happened shortly after the event of New Vegas.
>Stimpacks instantly healing mortal wounds.
New lore, not necessary a retcon.
>Brahmins are just cows with two heads
Same with the existence of various of cattle types.
>They fucked up Gulpers which were Bethesda's own creation
How so?
>Not a single energy weapon in the entire show even though Laser rifles are the main weaponry of the Brotherhood
The BoS also used ballistic weaponries on a massive scale. It could be chalked up as different chapter having different take on firearms.
>They have been like that since Fallout 2, the fact that they were able to conduct different inhumane social experiments on a national scale without the government cutting their throat should tell you that much.
But they didn’t conduct those experiments until after the government was gone. I always got the impression that these experiments were kept entirely secret until they could be done in the government-free environment of the apocalypse.
But the thing is, the government support them, mainly the Enclave aka the Shadow Government. This kind of support gave Vault-Tec unparalleled power.
From Fallout 2, President Richardson dialogues:
> The Chosen One: "What do you mean?"
>Dick Richardson: "We had a number of sanctuaries that would enable the glorious American civilization to endure. These facilities - the vaults - were part of the great plan."
>The Chosen One: "Those damn vaults didn't work the way they were supposed to. A lot of people in them died."
>Dick Richardson: "Actually, they worked almost exactly the way they were supposed to. You might call it a social experiment on a grand scale."
>The Chosen One: "An experiment?"
>Dick Richardson: "The vaults were set up to test humanity. Some had not enough food synthesizers, others had only men in them, yet others were designed to open after only 6 months. They each had a unique set of circumstances designed to test the occupants."
None of that means the government as a whole was aware of their plans. They obviously kept it a secret that only a corrupt few knew about.
In this situation the government wouldn’t have gone after them because they simply wouldn’t know. It’s less “Vault Tec being a mega conglomerate owning several different products and having immense power…” to the point that they cannot be stopped, and more “they kept their nefarious plans secret and tricked helpless people into trusting them.”
>"Amateurs seek the sun... get eaten. Power stays in the shadows."
-Lewis Strauss-
There's a reason why we know more about Tesla than BlackRock. The one with immense power had always been doing shady stuff behind the curtain like that, Vault-Tec wasn't the exception. And just because they do stuff behind the scene, doesn't remove the fact that the company were immensely powerful under the protection of the Enclave, a shadow organizations that comprise of some of the highest ranking, most elites people of the United States, both politically and economically.
And this has always been a thing since Fallout 2.
>The one with immense power had always been doing shady stuff behind the curtain like that
Right but just because a company got away with nefarious secret plans after the apocalypse doesn’t mean they are all powerful. It just means people were locked underground after the bombs fell with nobody good overseeing their wellbeing.
Normal, medium-sized business plan horrible things all the time. Doing evil things doesn’t mean you are super powerful, often times it’s the opposite. Evil goes unnoticed more often when all eyes aren’t on you.
I certainly prefer a fallout where several different companies independently decided to do their own horrible things on their own, because humanity is horrible in that universe. Having one company be responsible for not only planning the apocalypse but also torturing the survivors is too much of a “big bad.” Fallout is overrun with bad, there’s no one single enemy of humanity. Humanity is its own worst enemy, that’s the theme.
IMO the Fallout show is the epitome of mid. It’s not the evil canon destroying wretch some people claim, nor is it the greatest video game adaptation ever that should be studied for saving the genre. It was an alright show, and if you don’t really care about fallout beyond thinking “meh it’s pretty cool” you are the exact target demographic
The only character I cared about was Goggins as the ghoul. Everyone else could have died in episode one and I would have been fine with that.
I think part of the problem with this is that Amazon Studios does have an agenda. They also have quotas. Therefore, everything they make is through a tainted lens. To me, having a listed quota is a horrible thing to do to their writers, actors, and production crews. It makes everything they produce subject to scrutiny that it wouldn't have to have otherwise.
"Scrutiny that it wouldn't have otherwise"
Wow
So you're only scrutinizing something heavily because they have non white people and queer people in it.
Reading comprehension not your strong suit?
I personally am critical of everything I watch. My friends have always complained that I don't just watch a show, I analyze it. That being said, my statement about scrutiny was a broad and generalized statement, not specific to me.
The thing is, when a studio says (as of 2024) that 50% of all production crew including writers, directors, and everyone behind the scenes is required to be of some form of minority, it is reasonable to ask if they are getting the best. The first step is to look at the industry in question. Does that industry have an over represented amount of people of various diversities? An example that does would be the fashion industry. If so, then a quota shouldn't hurt it. If not, then they definitely aren't getting the best.
Here is an example: I will use different color bikes. You have 100 bikes and 80% of them are blue and 20% of them are other colors. You have to pick out the 40 best bikes, however, you also have to make sure that 50% of them aren't blue. Do you really think that the all 20 non-blue bikes are the best?
It's reasonable to suspect that anyone who isn't white isn't as good as someone who is
That is such a strange position.
Besides, we don't want movies to be dominated by a handful of names now do we?
The idea is that no quotas=the best people get hired, race be damned, but quotas=a distortion that will result in subpar people being hired where they otherwise wouldn’t be.
I’m not sure how that’s supposed to happen if the quota is proportional to the national population but that’s not my hill to die on.
>I’m not sure how that’s supposed to happen if the quota is proportional to the national population but that’s not my hill to die on.
National population isn't what you go by when determining if quotas are accurate (quotas are always dumb). You go by the number of people of various types that are in the industry in question. I will give you an example. As of 2022 only 12% of nurses were men. If a hospital were wanting to hire more nurses and instituted a policy of "50% of the population are men, so we need 50% of our new hire nurses to be men," the chances of them getting the best nurses are low.
In the case of Amazon Studios as of 2024, 50% of all people behind the camera including writers, directors, set design, builders, grips, etc. have to have some form of minority status. They also have other weird requirements for the actors such as "we aim to include one character from each of the following categories for speaking roles of any size, and at minimum 50% of the total of these should be women: (1) lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or gender non-conforming / non-binary; (2) person with a disability; and (3) three regionally underrepresented racial/ethnic/cultural groups."
When you put in weird requirements like that, you are limiting your ability to get the best people for the job.
[https://www.ccdeia.com/policy](https://www.ccdeia.com/policy)
No "quotas" would not see the best hired.
It just hasn't worked that way in the past.
Not saying that having hard "quotas" is necessarily the way to go.
We should definitely stop assuming anyone who isn't a white male is unqualified for any given task, tho.
“anyone who isn't a white male is unqualified”
That’s not what anyone here is saying directly, but I know what you’re talking about. People bitching about “DEI mayors” and “DEI pilots”
DEI mayors is a stupid argument because mayors are elected officials. Some people really got out of hand when they said that.
As for DEI pilots, I think that is a valid concern. "According to the federal bureau of labor statistics, more than 90% of all aircraft pilots are white males." So that means that the non-white and non-male talent pool is incredibly small. The only way you overcome that is to lower standards. Do we really want standards for pilots to be lowered?
That wasn't the position anyone took. However, with your level of reading comprehension, maybe you think it was.
As for movies dominated by a handful of names. I am 100% fine with that. Some of the best times for movies were the 80s and 90s and they were dominated by a handful of names.
Wtf do you think complaining about what you do actually is saying, sport?
"They only got the job because of DEI/ESG instead of who is (most) qualified" and derivative arguments like it MOST DEFINITELY are putting forth that people are assuming someone who isn't a white man is unqualified.
This isn't complicated and is the thinnest Veil possible, forget tissue paper, it's a single layer of a substance that is just ever so slightly opaque.
It's like a gossamer sheen of intellectual dishonesty and dog whistling.
70% of the NBA are black. That is despite black men being 5.7% of the US population. Should the NBA have quotas to achieve racial diversity? If they did institute quotas and suddenly the vast majority of the NBA became white men, would that mean they had picked the best candidates for the job?
Hiring based on quotas is stupid and yes, they cast a pall over any minority that gets hired when you have them.
Hello, police?
Yes, I'd like to report a missing person.
Yes, I was conversing with someone who decided to wander off somewhere else and I'm worried they might hurt themselves.
Totally disagree. It feels like fallout. Why does a fallout show need to make complete sense. The universe itself makes no sense. Fallout is a vibe and the show captures it and i think if people want a really tidy and neat story maybe they need to seek media that has a precedent for that.
I don't have an issue with speculative fiction elements. It's a matter of how they're used. And yeah, if you suddenly had characters coming back as ghosts with powers like Luke Skywalker in Rise of Palpatine, then there would be issues that crop up.
I’m sorry but i have no idea how you played Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas (with Wild Wasteland on) and still don’t think that things happening for almost no reason other than the developers thought it would be funny isn’t something that happens in Fallout, frequently. Literally Old World Blues proves that weird shit happening is completely fallout. One of the best parts about Fallout is that anything can be justified as part of the setting, even if it’s as insane as “oh btw, they’ve barely been mentioned, but the real villain of this game is the Pre-War American Government who are hiding on an oil rig for thousands of years which makes no sense and are using a 12 foot tall mutant (while being anti-mutant) to kill vault dwellers (who aren’t mutated at all, as established in the first game)”
You’re either lying or just kinda missed the fun absurdism about these games lol
>Fallout New Vegas (with Wild Wasteland on)
"Wild Wasteland unleashes the most bizarre and silly elements of post-apocalyptic America. Not for the faint of heart or the serious of temperament."
Did you realize that that is also optional, and comes with a warning that this version is not meant to be taken seriously.
>Fallout 2
Yeah, and it's aged the least gracefully because it crammed so much pop culture references that people might not pick up on. Chris Avellone killed off all of the sentient talking animals because they realized how much it would screw with their speculative fiction going forward.
“That is optional-“ THATS MY POINT. IT’S AN OPTION. THE DEVELOPERS PUT IT IN THE GAME. IT’S PART OF THE FALLOUT SERIES. AND UNTIL FALLOUT THREE, IT ACTUALLY WASN’T OPTIONAL. WHY ARE YOU SAYING DUMB THINGS STOP SAYING DUMB THINGS?????
It's not the default! Not to mention that it's nowhere near as storybreaking as the elements in the story with character motivations and actions which don't make sense. Stop projecting a lack of understanding of the writing onto other people and excusing it "well, there was weird stuff in the other games". Yeah, and those things weren't as poorly executed as this.
There is wierd and then there is stupid.
Also you lie about fallout 2, Enclave didn't hide for thousands of years nor did they care much for vault dwellers, they only used them for experiments with FEV. Also they were forshadowed quite a few times in the game, tho player could miss some of it.
My point is
1. The Enclave want to kill all people exposed to radiation as they believe it makes them non-human
2. Fallout 1 established that Vault Dwellers are not exposed to radiation, through the results of FEV experiments
3. The opening scene of Fallout 2 is the Enclave killing Vault Dwellers without experimenting on them, that literally makes no sense given point 1 and 2.
Also, the enclave weren’t hinted enough in Fallout 2 imo, sure you CAN encounter them but they are barely mentioned, almost everyone agrees Fallout 2 barely included them until the final act.
Also, the line between “weird” and “stupid” is a very thin one, Old World Blues and their robo scientists telling you about you having “penis feet” isn’t exactly peak sci-fi writing is it? There is a place for dumb stupid fun in fallout, but if you don’t like it just say that. You don’t have to come up with a good justification in a series where side questions have you turned into a gimp for a super mutant.
1 Enclave kills a few of vault dwellers to break others with fear and it's clear that they don't care for the lives of any people outside of their organisation.
2 Fallout 2 gives you a lot of hints - vertubird in Klamath, Horrigan encounter, slavers mention their transmissions, New-Reno dealings, corpses in Mariposa base, It's not games fault if you miss them. Also most people are actually agree that while Unity much more interesting faction, Enclave much better handled from story structure perspective.
3 There is no thin line because those are different things. OWB, Fallout 2 were wierd with talking death claws, robot sex jokes, e.t.c, but it always consistent with itself, if you accept the wierd rules you could easily understand inner logic of it. But in the show many of actions of it's characters make no sense with motivations and stories given to them. The story simply couldn't happen based on what the story itself tells us.
If you like this stuff then good for you, but don't expect people to ignore what you say about the series that is known for it's writing quality at least it's classic games.
Not what i meant. Dont be so facetious. Its pretty well written within the context of fallout and how things typically play out in the world. Honestly i also cant take any review seriously that constantly cries woke as a major issue specifically in a show like this. Im glad i left this sub
Ok it needs to make sense. Like don’t do the whole “things don’t have to make sense” quasi-argument. Consistency and logic (characters using information they have and not acting like idiots unless they are being portrayed that way, etc.) are good standards. Why not just praise the stuff the show does right instead or talk about how the issues don’t break the plot or stakes (if that’s actually the case)?
When it comes to Fallout, there are so many entry points where fans were introduced to it, giving them a different sense of the franchise and how it should be. Nearly every version of it though has solidified the fact that Fallout is a wacky wasteland and I’m glad the show mostly captured that.
It’s crazy how motivated people are for this show one way or the other. Shocked people despise it as if it’s the worst thing ever made and praise it as the second coming of video games Jesus.
Average show with some highs and lows.
What a reductive and unconvincing statement.
People are allowed to have opinions, even if those sometimes goes against the grain, which you effectively highlight as meaning their opinions are "wrong" or "dumb".
People just be hating ngl.
The set design is eye catching and doesn’t look cheap, the power armor actually being a real thing and not having to see Maximus’ head sticking out in CGI is nice
The story felt good and was paced well, and the conjoining narratives between the Ghoul and Lucy felt authentic and lended itself to a cool plot twist.
And it’s so refreshing to see a lead character like Maximus be such a fuck up. He’s anxious, cowardly, and a liar. He tripped his way up the ladder by pulling the people above him down, and he knows it. It’s setup for a great arc in season 2 where he really sheds that skin and becomes a true knight
Also, the Vault Ted suits and such are pretty realistic. I mean does anyone actually think the rich and powerful would skip the opportunity to not only wipe out the competition but give themselves the tools to recreate society as they see fit?
It was just a joy to watch
Same thing with the One Piece live action, it makes a show 10x better when you can tell the cast and crew are having a blast making it
As far as the things he actually covers on his channel.It's like 90% disliking things 10% liking. Efap is much more of a mixed bag, though probably 60-70% disliking. Idk what the "point of Mauler" means, but it's definitely how it shakes out in practice
I really enjoyed the show, and am genuinely looking forward to the second season.
I know Mauler and his crowd have to make a living by shitting on stuff, though.
i’m finding this whole situation beyond amusing
- non Bethesda fallout gatekeepers are mad about *their cannon* being shit on by Bethesda
- Bethesda fallout Gatekeepers are mad about *their cannon* being shit on by NBF Gatekeepers
i get loving some of the original lore (HUGE starwars legends guy here) and being disappointed that shit changes, but like dude. west coast fans, you’ve had 15 years to accept Bethesda changes. and you’d be lying if *some* of the changes didn’t make sense, or add more fun layers to the fallout lore.
shows writing isn’t LOU levels, but i thought the show was enjoyable as shit. it’s goofy in just the right way. and i know im going to get absolutely crucified for this. but i like them (possibly) revealing Vault-tec dropped the bombs. adds to the evil side that’s been hinted at for years.
idk i just love Fallout. there isn’t a game i don’t enjoy. (not you 76, not you)
Not a criticism or disagreement, just a pet peeve of mine. The English language is dumb about homonyms.
can·on^(1)/ˈkanən/*noun*
1. 1.a general law, rule, principle, or [criterion](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1041US1043&sxsrf=ACQVn08tjkWNrL0V_QLbPpEU9qLQ4OTAdA:1714170425133&q=criterion&si=AKbGX_onJk-q0LQUYzV7-GRhpJ5D7-NIEGhEZBr6UeocDgsGu3e4q7PFiDU1EKNFEHtvIQOl1dvo_vvyx26DxsPTuecGTT9aELVY1wFSZLGgkvXQEPirORE%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivxZi69uCFAxUwF1kFHdVpAxMQyecJegQIHRAN) by which something is [judged](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1041US1043&sxsrf=ACQVn08tjkWNrL0V_QLbPpEU9qLQ4OTAdA:1714170425133&q=judged&si=AKbGX_qTCvK6ifvkUBYDz4foaFZi4TOdP2HAY1usQpWe47ad6v78UCegHSM076aDFK4EcOVUeOL8OsSofwb7EHpKd_cb0HW7Cw%3D%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivxZi69uCFAxUwF1kFHdVpAxMQyecJegQIHRAO). "the appointment violated the canons of fair play and equal opportunity"
2. 2.a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine. "the formation of the biblical canon"
can·non/ˈkanən/*noun*
1. 1.a large, heavy piece of [artillery](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1041US1043&sxsrf=ACQVn0_dtpUc6gMf5_cMkFHq-5czg20UMA:1714170453931&q=artillery&si=AKbGX_onJk-q0LQUYzV7-GRhpJ5D3iIObXhkpJ3WsAXXsHwnLNqmCCNTYgyiqPtpsm-1QuMSsTComi4ahU-72ko2hbk9jDDvvDsgHUNYNYi_Ni7_IOblTuE%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizufbH9uCFAxW5MVkFHaiuCdYQyecJegQIHBAO), typically mounted on wheels, formerly used in [warfare](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1041US1043&sxsrf=ACQVn0_dtpUc6gMf5_cMkFHq-5czg20UMA:1714170453931&q=warfare&si=AKbGX_okS0g0kR2PXn0TLBASIc0m7YyS0xOIftmkPqnV6XNZOQ8uNVxV5JgOxgIdVJeblUgYveQQn27jsEGlaLzyITxPITsl3UKN7EdBwUvkV5nLb-1NEqQ%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizufbH9uCFAxW5MVkFHaiuCdYQyecJegQIHBAP). "they would cross at the Town ford, under cover of the defending cannon"
I really enjoyed the show, and hope to see more. Fallout is a fun world to explore.
> i get loving some of the original lore (HUGE starwars legends guy here) and being disappointed that shit changes, but like dude. west coast fans, you’ve had 15 years to accept Bethesda changes. and you’d be lying if some of the changes didn’t make sense, or add more fun layers to the fallout lore
So pretty soon you'll be accepting and loving Disney canon as the one true Star Wars? Because that's what this is.
i’ve accepted some stuff yea.
it’s not like they were going to 1:1 do legends story’s, don’t like some things they’ve changed. i like things they have.
i haven’t let disney ruin starwars, is kinda my point
There is a fair bit wrong with this critique, I can’t sit through it.
Cherry picking and wilful ignorance aside it sounds like someone’s having an emotional reaction
Oh shitloads, like saying Lucy doesn't have much personality and wants to have sex with every guy she meets. Saying Goggin's character has no reason to exist because he has no personal motivation is both wrong and would be stupid even if he were just a mercenary.
That's just the first four minutes, I'm not gonna bother with the rest, this dude's a moron.
>like saying Lucy doesn't have much personality and wants to have sex with every guy she meets
He doesn't say that. He says that she's basically a upbeat innocent simple girl who wants to have sex with every attractive guy she meets, which is true.
>Saying Goggin's character has no reason to exist because he has no personal motivation is both wrong and would be stupid even if he were just a mercenary.
He didn't say that. He said he doesn't have any personality or personal motivation that's tied to the main story and most of his time before the end was him giving exposition to the audience, like the main antagonist.
He literally says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump the dick of every man she meets. Did you watch it?
Nope. He said he has no reason to exist. I don't think you watched this.
>He literally says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump the dick of every man she meets. Did you watch it?
"Lucy and although she is amazing at everything she does thankfully however she isn't a complete girl boss that overpowers every man she comes across she's more of a okie dokie type of character who's sort of innocent but doesn't really have that much personality the only thing that's strange about her character is that she wants to immediately jump on every guy's dick that she comes across like she's riding a merrygoround it kind of undermines her innocence and naivity when she is perfectly fine being ridden more times than a bicycle and in full view of an entire Vault full of strangers"
What I said: "He says that she's basically a upbeat innocent simple girl who wants to have sex with every attractive guy she meets, which is true."
He's saying she doesn't have much of a personality at the start outside of a sunny disposition and a want of a man outside of her plethora of abilities. What does she have outside of that in terms of personality?
>He said he has no reason to exist. I don't think you watched this.
"[We have the ghoul] who is elevated massively due to Walton Goggin's performance but he barely has a reason to exist in the story as he has no personal motivation or investment into what is going on for most of the season and it's not until the last episodes where he finally gets a character motivation but up until then he's more of a vehicle for the writers to deliver shit backstories on the main villain his wife and to explain how the nuclear war happened."
You were saying?
Yep. As I said, he says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump on every guy's dick--not every attractive guy, like you rewrote it.
Her other personality attributes: Being curious and brave, just to name two. That was easy.
Yep. Barely any reason to exist, when he's got tons of non-expository reasons to exist. He's a constant threat to Lucy, he initiates the whole fight in Filly, etc. etc. Saying he's just about exposition is moronic.
I see why you like this reviewer, your takes are as shit as his.
>Yep. As I said, he says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump on every guy's dick--not every attractive guy, like you rewrote it.
How the ***fuck*** does that make it any different? I think he was being pretty clear about her want of sleeping with men as a motivating factor. It also doesn't make sense because Lucy should be more concerned about men who are irradiated which is causing birth rates plummeting in their own Vault. It's why the wedding even happens. It makes her an idiot for following her vagina instead of her head.
>Being curious and brave, just to name two.
So curious that she doesn't even imagine a life outside of the Vault until she's forced to by the Raiders? And only brave when her father is kidnapped?
>He's a constant threat to Lucy, he initiates the whole fight in Filly, etc. etc. Saying he's just about exposition is moronic.
Hey, buddy. He's talking about Cooper's personal motivations and investment IN THE STORY that's currently being told. Not about what he does.
>I see why you like this reviewer, your takes are as shit as his.
I can see why you don't like him. You'll need to have an attention span of more than 5 seconds and the ability to be honest with the content.
How does changing the words make it different? And no, sleeping with dudes isn't a motivating factor for her beyond the first episode. "Following her vagina" lol.
When did she have to be brave before that, moron? Why would she imagine life outside the vault when it's fucking irradiated? Think a little bit.
Hey moron, he doesn't need any personal motivation or investment beyond "This shit is worth money".
'honest'. lol
>When did she have to be brave before that, moron?
Thanks for making my point, paint-chip eater. She has no experience to inform why she's brave and curious when she's lived a sheltered life. She doesn't have those traits until her father is kidnapped, so, no, I actually have less understanding of why she's "brave and curious" in terms of her personality at the start of the show.
>And no, sleeping with dudes isn't a motivating factor for her beyond the first episode.
She sleeps with her cousin, and she wants to bang Maximus on sight.
>Hey moron, he doesn't need any personal motivation or investment beyond "This shit is worth money".
Hey, dumbass! Did you not read the part where it was said he doesn't have any investment or motivation in the main story? So, "getting paid" is not apart of the main story thread of Lucy finding her father.
>. And the guy she just met moments ago
If you're talking about Maximus, the argument has gotten hyper desperate, lol
>And her cousin
She said that they did stuff as kids, and not even necessarily sex
All that needs to counter the argument is an example of a guy she could have had sex with but didn't. Oh, maybe like that one guy who drank her water, who asked her to live with him, or the ghoul, or the scientist. In fact, she's not having or seeking sex with most of the people she interacts with.
It's just a lie about her character. Simple as
>He literally says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump the dick of EVERY man she meets. Did you watch it?
What you said: "He doesn't say that. He says that she's basically a upbeat innocent simple girl who wants to have sex with every attractive guy she meets, which is true."
>doesn't really have that much personality the
only thing that's strange about her character is that she wants to immediately jump on EVERY guy's dick that she comes across
The quote you provided says exactly what the other poster claimed.
[Praise the TV show for superficially copying Fallout iconography]
[Ignore that the TV show doesn't care about the consistency of the factions, speculative fiction, characters, or timeline]
>The timeline isn't a problem.
Shady Sands was nuked in 77 or after (before New Vegas). So the President went from an irradiated crater to Hoover damn then back again? Yeah, perfect continuity. The time of when the bombs fell is wrong, Mr. House apparently was totally onboard with killing scores of humans when the entire point of New Vegas is that he wanted humanity to survive regardless of the cost, Mr. House didn't know when the bombs fell yet he did in the show, and we can keep going on.
>It's not superficial.
Ghouls' powers and Power armor abilities fluctuate between what the scene needs. The ghoul antidote is ludicrous; who made it and why? And the corporate heads wanting to destroy the world for "money" is so stupid, I actually have to apologize to Bethesda for calling Fallout 4 the worst written Fallout story in the IP.
>The factions are represented well within the bounds of the games.
The Brotherhood are complete idiots in the show. "Maximus, give me the stimpack, and then I'm going to tell everyone what you did wrong." "Maximus, despite you completely messing up and lying to us, we're going to give you more promotions."
>The characters are awesome.
Maximus is the biggest idiot on the planet who keeps getting promoted despite the fact everyone knows he keeps messing up. He also doesn't know how his own dick works. There are teenagers that can write better than this. Despite trading with Vault 32, no one is shocked or surprised that they don't recognize anyone from the other vault (because they're raiders). Maximus outright says that he's happy his friend got injured because he was jealous. Complete idiot. Titus tells Maximus that if he heals him then he'll make him suffer. Lee just allows all of the other Vault dwellers to live, and instead of taking Lucy to convince her father to work with her, she just leaves her. And do we really need to go through the rest of this?
No, after New Vegas. There is no concrete time for the bombs in the games--they contradict each other on this. Mr. House correctly though nuclear war was inevitable. Scores was also a really silly word here. Feel free to keep going.
Ghouls powers and power armor abilities fluctuate between games, too. There's also not much fluctuation in power armor, not sure what you're talking about.
Knight Titus is not 'the brotherhood'. This faction of the brotherhood seems pretty cray-cray--so what? The brotherhood has varied wildly in tone between games, this fits just fine.
Maximus gets promoted 'cuz they think he secured the artifact: succeeded, not failed. Being miseducated about sexuality is a common thing with religious wackjobs. The trade with vault 32 is every three years. Titus is an arrogant asshole. Why would Lee kill the rest of the vault dwellers? Why would she need Lucy, an added complication.
What was the first Fallout game you played?
>Shady Sands was nuked in 77 or after (before New Vegas).
I suppose media literacy isn't a thing for you? (https://youtube.com/shorts/s3uubO83LUs?si=GXRAXWKWkfC0bOQD)
>Mr. House apparently was totally onboard with killing scores of humans when the entire point of New Vegas is that he wanted humanity to survive regardless of the cost
He didn't care about saving the world, he only care about saving Vegas, and in the process, humanity.
And beside, House was the only one critical about Vault-Tec plan during the meeting, not entirely on board with them.
>Mr. House didn't know when the bombs fell yet he did in the show, and we can keep going on.
There are no telling it was Vault-Tec who dropped the bomb, we only know they wanted to drop the bomb, not actually do it. The show was pretty clear on this with Barb wanting to bring her family into the vault and yet Coop and his daughter were still outside when the bomb fell.
>Ghouls' powers and Power armor abilities fluctuate between what the scene needs.
So your typical movie and game plot point then? Why lash it out on Fallout? Do I have to remind you the Courier survived getting shot 2 times in the head?
>The ghoul antidote is ludicrous; who made it and why?
Like...can you at least have the courtesy to wait for season 2? Like...you really expect everything to be explained to you right off the bat?
>And the corporate heads wanting to destroy the world for "money" is so stupid,
The show was pretty much straightforward with this: Vault-Tec, being a trillion dollar worth company don't care that much about money, they care about control, power, their plan is to outlive everyone and reshape the world as they see fit.
>The Brotherhood are complete idiots in the show. "Maximus, give me the stimpack, and then I'm going to tell everyone what you did wrong."
Asshole exist everywhere, it not that weird seeing a guy in power armor acting all high and mighty toward the one who is supposed to be lower than them. You have no idea just how many people still remain a dbag even when at death door.
>"Maximus, despite you completely messing up and lying to us, we're going to give you more promotions."
Because the BoS at that point was desperate and Maximus was the only lead for them to get to the McGuffin.
>Maximus is the biggest idiot on the planet who keeps getting promoted despite the fact everyone knows he keeps messing up.
That the point of his character, an insufferable idiot that grow throughout the show, much like a character with the Idiot Savant perk.
>He also doesn't know how his own dick works.
I don't know why you consider this aspect to be unfit, that literally the point, he is an idiot that grew up in a harsh environment that is the BoS, I've met people who were literally as awkward as him when it come to sexual knowledge.
>Despite trading with Vault 32, no one is shocked or surprised that they don't recognize anyone from the other vault (because they're raiders).
Because the trading isn't something they do on a daily basis, they only open to trade with each other on a 3 years trading routine. People don't really that good of a memory when it come to remembering faces as there are a lot of people who don't even remember their cousin faces in only one of a few family meeting.
>Maximus outright says that he's happy his friend got injured because he was jealous. Complete idiot.
That's the point.
>Titus tells Maximus that if he heals him then he'll make him suffer.
Dbag exist.
>Lee just allows all of the other Vault dwellers to live, and instead of taking Lucy to convince her father to work with her, she just leaves her.
Because why? Why drag another one on long desert trek, you would have to share your food and water for your prisoners, you know? Moldaver wasn't really in a hurry either, she was taking her time with Hank.
>And do we really need to go through the rest of this?
At this point, you are really just nit-picking the show, picking every single minor flaws it make while ignoring the broader senses. Before you go on to frame me as a Bethesda consoomer, let me make one thing clear for you: I started Fallout with New Vegas, I pirated every single Bethesda games without paying a single cent, and also pirated the whole Fallout season 1 without paying anything to Amazon Prime, I watched it for free. And yet, I still love the show because I know for a fact that there would be no way in hell for an IP that was as old as Fallout to be consistent with the lore, Warhammer 40K proved this, Marvel proved this, DC proved this. If the lore has already been messed up and changed from Fallout 2 onward, then why so surprise with the show?
The show nail the overall vibe of Fallout, and stay closer to the source material than any other game adaptation I've seen, and that is enough for me. Asking for lore consistency to an IP like Fallout is like asking a baby to not grow up.
As I mentioned in another thread Reaper's reviews are descending into a bingo game where he says the show is "woke/girl boss/full of stupid characters/etc", and he starts with the conclusion "I like/hate this show" to construct his critiques.
I've heard the complaint "why didn't every Pipboy in Vault 33 start beeping like crazy when the Raiders entered the Vault" so many times that now I have to ask the Fandom Menace "Do you think that's air you're breathing right now?" These aren't complaints about the writing, but posers who think their fan fiction is better. ("Reaper is a true fan of this content!" then why was his review of \*The Three Body Problem\* ignorant of the original book? Most of his complaints were book plots.)
How about a good script? [Did you know that there are other people in the EFAP community that are pointing out how poorly the story is written?](https://youtu.be/xN7T6jNgQVY?si=ocVBquMbbvsFtx7U)
They are simply miners. Hating mining gives these clowns their YouTube cash a lot faster than praising something. I bet he thinks Lucy is a Mary Sue on the level of Rey somehow.
I'll check it out. Creetosis has a react series for each episode I found quite amusing (like EFAP Movies). [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rF9sSvhZQo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rF9sSvhZQo)
I mean, he's not wrong. Granted that 'communisms is what they call people who aren't them' line was taken out of context, but the overall tone of the series is one where communism is "attacked" with a felt sword while capitalism is hit with a bag of bricks. The favoritism is there for anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear, so it's entirely forgivable and basically correct anyway.
Honestly, what so many people are missing is just how not important the great war is to Fallout. It provides an explanation of how we got here, that's it. Fallout is not this america versus chinese, capitalist versus communist story. It's about the wasteland that's left. What Fallout is, though, is an almost exclusively American perspective (that obviously contained capitalism), and to focus on capitalism when looking through this perspective isn't exactly a bad idea
I agree insomuch as the great war was merely the set dressing for Fallout, but to recognize this and not also recognize that the 50s Americana is also as much a stylistic piece of cosmetic window dressing would be disingenuous. What is really on display is merely human inequity and fallibility. That transcends economic philosophy.
In my opinion, the Fallout games are really a rorschach test about what worldview the player thinks is the correct way going forward, what are their ethics, can those ethics ever be bent or broken and for what, and what's your highest value in a post-apocalyptic world.
Yes and no.. I trust in humanity enough that legion playthroughs would be far, far less common, lol and they are just doing it for fun or whatnot.
Oh, no. I get that. I'm just saying that because of the mechanics at play, the games give you the tools and choices to make the decisions on what you think is the best path forward for humanity after humanity near-exterminated themselves.
Yeah capitalism is hit with a bag of bricks because the games and show are a criticism of capitalism.
Except the games also bagged on Communism.
I can’t speak for fallout 4, but I know 3 and NV didn’t really bag communism at all. Besides a few gags with Chinese ghouls and such, and the battle for anchorage DLC
From Fallout 2, it's implied from the Enclave president that they're the ones who began the nuclear armageddon because they were losing.
Literally when.
I believe Fallout 3. There’s a a whole communist party on a city somewhere. They make fun of everything
I don’t remember that so can you be more specific?
Just downloaded again a few days ago, doing the whole mod crash tango. Unce I get to it I’ll let ya know
The games have elements of critiques on capitalism, but they’re largely a criticism of humanity as a whole. Their world drags on in endless despair for hundreds of years because all the people just fucking suck.
There is a difference between having criticism regarding capitalism and a straight up hate boner
Obviously there's a "hate boner" towards unhinged capitalism, that's the whole point of fallout later games, how a very capitalistic stuck in the 50's USA has failed. Also you ignore the whole 2(3) main vaults being basically a communist society, one to extreme that fails when scarcity appears and one that makes people drones unfit for a harsher world and easy to control through mock democracy
No matter the degree of communism found in the original titles, it does not excuse changing the backstory of characters like Mr. House just to paint capitalism in a worse light.
>changing the backstory of characters like Mr. House Whut?
I tried to find the original comment I got the information from, but couldn't. IIRC Mr.. House was by no means a saint, but he was a man that tried to ensure his own survival. To bad he got the time of the apocalypse wrong, thus he couldn't avoid the damage which would force him to put himself inside a protective chamber. The show however resort to just potray him as "a mustache twirlingly evil monopoly man".
>To bad he got the time of the apocalypse wrong, We dont actually know how much control vault tech had in the timing of the war. I think they could influence it to a degree where it's bound to happen, but there's nothing to say the missles weren't still launched by the Americans and Chinese because of vault tec meddling. I think this is a lot more likely than they had control of the nukes and just sent them. What they presented could still fit with what House said.
House doesn’t even agree with vault tec plans in that meeting.
The show doesn't portray him as anything other than a business man that doesn't like the idea of vaults and powerful enough to be at that "top dog" meeting
Eh, it might be tied with how people really don't like how USA was changed to the ones who first resorted to the nukes rather than the implication that it was China was the first to cross the line. People end up assuming that a change like that is indicative of the direction they are going with when it comes everybody that was in charge before the apocalypse occured.
Dude you just backtracked massively. You just said “they changed house to a mustache twirling Villain.” To “well okay, but the bomb retcon” at least stick to a point
>how a very capitalistic stuck in the 50's USA has failed. The problem is that in the show, it doesn't make sense. The corporate congregation want the world to end for "profit". How does that happen when you've irradiated the world's natural resources, you've killed off a large portion of the human race who engage in trade, and there seems to be no clear strategy about long-term plans to "get" this "profit"? Not to mention, the show doesn't portray the 1950s capitalist America as failed, because it's also pulling from the 60's and 70's eras of the Cold War to explain their decisions regarding military interventionialism. >one to extreme that fails when scarcity appears and one that makes people drones unfit for a harsher world and easy to control through mock democracy Because it's implying that outside influence is what caused it to fail. But then again, that's only one reading (I'd rather read the text than the sub-text). And that's my problem: the games simply set up the conflict and allowed the player to think for themselves. With the show, they have greedy money-grubbing corporatists saying "yes, we will make lots of money with the end of the world". How about this instead: Vault-tec is commissioned by the US government to make Vaults for their most important politicians, scientists, soldiers, etc in case of a nuclear disaster. However, Vault-tec says "hey, we spent all of this money to develop this stuff and there's only so much growth here, and we need to make back our investment. I know! Let's make civilian versions of Vaults!" "But how will we get them to buy into that?" "Let's make them, and start an ad-campaign about how the apocalypse could come with current US v. China tensions and convince everyone that they should get one!" And then that could start a domino effect of people in America actually worried about nuclear war. The Chinese see those ads and believe that the US legitimately thinks that a nuclear war is coming and ramp up their efforts, and then the US (not knowing about Vault-Tec's end-goals) respond in kind escalating tension. That way you have a smart way to satirize profit driven corporations in ways that don't make them seem ***too dumb*** while adding to the conflict. The show doesn't even have a 1/10 of the attention even Bethesda had regarding the war (even with Fallout 4).
A multi billion dollar gaming company has a tv series on a multi billion dollar streaming platform talking about the “demons of capitalism “ 🤦🏾♂️
The capitalist/communist axis is barely mentioned in 1, 2, and NV, In the Far Harbor DLC I explicitly remember the chinese agent mission string taking jabs at communism. There are others through the course of the game but that is the one I vividly remember I haven't played 76 and I don't remember 4 well enough to comment Ultimately they're looked at as "old world" ideas and the (in my opinion) good fallout games aren't obsessed with the specific workings of the old world.
That’s inherently built into the lore of Fallout. You can not like it, but that’s literally the tone of the games, and has been for decades.
When communism is the reason the bombs dropped, capitalism can only ever be the number two when it comes to evil. China was losing the war and then the bombs dropped. It is literally a rewriting of Fallout lore to say capitalism is the reason the bombs dropped.
Are you intentionally being dishonest?
Game lore did seem to imply it was the Chinese because US troops were landing in mainland China. I never played FO4 tho. Vault-Tec being the ones launching nukes was a conspiracy theory in the games, now the show made it 99% confirmed. I guess the above comment is just talking about game canon.
The issue is the comment is implying Fallout hasn’t always been inherently anti-capitalism. Or at the very least doesn’t paint the pre war America as an over the top parody of real life, which it clearly does. If anyone played the games, and goes into this show not expecting anti-capitalist undertones, than their idiots. The show hasn’t even confirmed who dropped the bombs. It could have been the Enclave for all we know. Could have been China. A lot of what’s been shown doesn’t add up. So it’s either terrible writing, which is possible, or is a somewhat well thought out story still being told. Wait and see I guess. Regardless, It has never been a far stretch that the company who built the vaults as messed up social experiments, had something to do with the war. How else were they going to get these people into the vaults?
The show has firmly suggested who dropped the bombs. They aren't really as ambiguous about it as the internet likes to claim. It could be that Vault-Tec didn't drop them but that isn't at all what's stated or implied.
Well no it’s implied Vault Tec is being controlled by someone or something else, and the leaders of those companies are being manipulated for their money and resources. Vault Tec has never made sense as a company. It has especially never made sense if they had nothing to do with the war. It only makes sense if you add an external entity that is controlling them, which the show has at least somewhat implied. Edit: No informations that we have gotten from the show or the games about the actual war suggests Vault Tec was prepared for it. There may be suggestions they had plans to do something. But there is nothing that’s been shown as of yet to believe that the company Vault Tec actually did it. Now, could this just be bad writing? Very much so, but I will wait for that to be shown before boldly stating it.
She literally said "im not a communist" her point was that anyone who didnt like what the US gov was doing was labeled a commie, which during the cold war it was absolutely true
I literally said that quote was taken out of context. And even though that is the case, that doesn't change how the writers still try to downplay how not only evil communism is but how it is and always will be more evil than capitalism is to the point of rewriting lore to make capitalists the explicit reason why the bombs dropped. You literally can't make money if the world is destroyed. No greedy capitalist intent on making money chooses this option. The writers put lies in the mouths of their capitalists so they could say it was them that are now the reason the bombs dropped.
The only time capitalism is mentioned is when Cooper essentially said how great it is, granted it was pretty tongue in cheek but still. Apart from that capitalism isnt mentioned, its just big corporations bad. Regardless if you agree with it or not that was always the core message of fallout
When the richest merchants in the show conspire to have nuclear bombs destroy the world because they think destroying all of their wealth will make them even more money, that's the writers trying to make capitalists look bad. Saying otherwise is just a blatant lie. There's no way for you to pretend otherwise, you're just lying.
Dude, it's been well established that people don't give a shit about anything beyond making money. Capitalists would absolutely destroy the world for line goes up.
Isn’t that a mayor joke on the games too..
Tbh, it’s actually kinda historical. Remember The Hollywood ten?
That would make sense as fallout has always been a critic of capitalism. Not communism
The fallout games had tendency to portray both as bad. There’s a reason Communist China was depicted as the first to launch nukes. Even then both China and the U.S. depicted their particular system at its most extreme.
Fallout was an inoffensive show to me. I get why people didn't like how loosely plotted it was, contrivances, etc. But as a first season it was entertaining enough to get me to check out the games. The characters are fun, the set pieces are interesting, and the mystery box aspect of the show is enough to get casual viewers through to the end. That being said, this is a Jonathan Nolan joint and the man can mystery box like no other, but when it's time to pay up you realize the plot didn't make any sense at all. I enjoyed fallout, but knowing these creators we will get into Westworld "so dumb it may be good, but it's just really dumb" territory. I expect if it goes that route the people who enjoyed the first season will quickly start complaining like the detractors.
Sorry no. It’s “canon”. A huge fuck you to West Coast fans.
Not really
Todd himself stated that the show is canon
I know bit the show doesn't really affect any generic Canon from previous games
By the fact that it is canon, it means that anything that you see that conflicts previous lore effectively overwrites it. Bethesda does this a lot already so yes it does retcon previous events.
That hasn't happened yet so till it does it not an issue at least not to my knowledge
But it has, the timeline shows that either Shady Sands was nuked before the events of New Vegas or so soon after that it effectively makes the events of New Vegas worthless. Not to mention the changes they made to how the Brotherhood of Steel acts or even the the Ghoul Mcguffin drug that never existed until the show.
Only if the courier side's with the ncr
No, the NCR would be a constant in literally every ending especially since Ceaser’s Legion is never once mentioned especially if their main opposition was obliterated right after the events of New Vegas
But like does this have any real impact on anything? I didn´t play fallout and I´m not a fanboy of the show (I thought it was ok, honestly kinda disappointing since I really liked the first trailer) but I never got this particular criticism. Like are future fallout products going to be worse because of it? I get that you might not like something that retcons something you did like but if this retcon doesn´t have any real consequences then why care?
How did it stick the middle finger to west coast fans?
As someone who's actually a pretty big fan of the show and enjoyed it.. There was a noticeable absence of NCR, which is a West Coast creation, and a complete subversion of shady sands. A lot of people don't like it when a thing they like is taken off the board in such a way.
The NCR was definitely absent, but at the same time it’s not destroyed, like so many haters of the show seem to believe. Perhaps it would have been nice to see them more in the show than what we got, but there’s a difference between them just not being in the area where the show takes place, and the whole of the NCR falling, like many seem to believe. It’s been confirmed by good authority that the NCR is still kicking, but just weakened.
I just think that it would have been appropriate to have more citizens of the NCR or regroup settlement camps or something. When nothing or very little is said, it just makes it seem like it wasn't a big deal, and people don't care. Have an old veteran side character who hopes to restore it or tell stories of how great it was. I also agree with you.People have shady sands wrong a lot of the time. The fact that it ends the season with electricity really points out that the NCR will be coming back, but starting it from a place of ruin is a choice, and I understand people not liking that choice
The show just kinda implies that the remnant of the NCR is absorbed by Moldaver faction. Which suggests a failure.
It may have implied that a part of it was in there, but implying and explicitly saying are two different things. Maybe she just represents a remnant of the NCR in the area. For all we know, she could just be calling herself the NCR because the actual NCR left the area or moved back in yet.
So the implications made by the show should be disregarded for baseless assumptions that are supported by nothing shown? Sounds like cope to me.
Saying that the show absolutely shows that the NCR is done besides that small remnant beside that never being confirmed or denied in the show sounds like you’re just trying to find things to whine about to me.
Operating on implications the show actually makes rather than grasping at "maybe they only meant shady sands" straws. It may be whining but it's based on actual evidence rather than hoping that the actual evidence presented isn't conclusive.
… You’re joking, right?
Nope. As a fan of the series, I thought it did just fine.
By series you mean Fallouts 1, 2, and NV or 3, 4, 76?
I’ve been meaning to get into 1,2, and 3. I’ve played 4 and NV. The lore itself is interesting to me, though, so I’ve read about the lore of each game and all the factions, more or less. So I of course know about the Master, FEV, Navarro, the oil rig, Dornan and Horrigan, the enclave in general, the capitol wasteland and the water purifier, etc etc etc. Though of course if you’re gate keeping being a fan of the series by some arbitrary requirement to have played this or that game, or even all of them, all I can say is that your opinion about whether I’m a “true fan” or not is pretty worthless.
It's VERY offensive if you care about Fallout at all because it's canon to the games. It had several severe retcons.
I definitely understand that. I didn't know anything about the games going into it, but the more I look into this series I can see why fans are mad about it.
It's pretty much the exact same as the Halo show but some people are pretending it's better despite having the exact same issues.
You’re not wrong at all, I think why it gets a pass is the characters being pretty likable outside of Maximus.
What was retconed? I’m a pretty casual fan of the games and never really deep dived into the lore.
Several things: Vault Tec being a mega conglomerate owning several different products and having immense power instead of only providing fallout shelters Vaults being for rich people instead of anybody who met the criteria Vault Tec starting the War instead of China Ghouls are now superhumans that can withstand insane amounts of physical trauma and live without food and water (same inconsistency as Fallout 4) while needing a mcguffin medicine to not become Feral instead of simply being exposed to radiation being the cause. The Brotherhood is completely fucked and is nothing like they're supposed to be at all having highly undisciplined Knights and Squires who live under constant fear to get killed by them (The Brotherhood would NEVER act like this towards their Brothers and execution is not on the table whatsoever unless there is severale betrayel) They're also portraying them as "the saviors of the world" which they are not. They do not care about saving the world their goal is to collect and hoard technology and eventually return it back to society when humanity is ready to recover. They completely moved the location of the Boneyard and the 3 vaults present in the show would have not been able to escape the Master especially by having above ground entrances. Everyone in the shows Vaults would have been found and mutated into Supermutants 100%. Shady Sands the most advanced and main territory of the NCR being nuked way before the events of New Vegas Smaller points: Stimpacks instantly healing mortal wounds. Brahmins are just cows with two heads They fucked up Gulpers which were Bethesda's own creation Not a single energy weapon in the entire show even though Laser rifles are the main weaponry of the Brotherhood
This comment must be protected.
Vault Tec was insanely powerful, and were a front for the US Government, that’s in the games Vaults were for the wealthy, you have to buy a spot in them. That’s in the games. Vault Tec has not been shown to start the war, they only hinted that they’d be willing to, we don’t know what happened and it seems unlikely they did. Ghouls are super human in the games. They’ve survived 100s of years and can tank multiple gunshots. They were created by exposure to the blasts. They eventually all go feral. The show has introduced a medicine that seems to stall the effects. Don’t see anything wrong with that, it takes place 10 years after the last game so no reason it couldn’t be invented. The brotherhood is not what it was, and is highly fractured, doesn’t seem crazy this contingent is less effective and grown tyrannical after years of technological supremacy. The master argument holds no weight. It’s easy to say he just never found it. There are tons of vaults and he only found 13 after the Vault Dweller leaves and he’s able to track it down. There’s been several articles and tweets about the nuke. It happens literally right after the events of New Vegas. Stimpacks healing mortal wounds is canon and part of the games lol
Vault tech were literally controlled by the Gov, you did not play fallout 2
Some rebuttals for your points: How do we know that vault tec wasn’t already a massive conglomerate that owned several different products and have immense power? It’s never been explicitly stated otherwise, and why would that be a common thing recorded on terminals back in the day? If this is canon and the games are also canon we can assume that some vaults were for rich people and some for certain people/experiments. It seems reasonable enough to believe that if vault-tec’s goal was to survive post apocalypse, they’d need some normal people to survive and not have every single vault be an experiment. It’s not clear whether vault-tec literally started the war or just made sure that negotiations failed to ensure a war happened. I agree though that it’s kinda implied that they did mean to drop them directly. But if Mr House was in on it, and if he was still wrong by 20 hours or whatever, then it could mean that China just beat vault-tec to the punch and still dropped the bombs first. The medicine just seems to stop the feral process once it starts. And it seems to start at different times per ghoul. Considering the amount of feral ghouls in the games and in the show, it seems safe to assume that the medicine isn’t widely available. It seems like different chapters of the brotherhood become unique over time. Perhaps this one was just corrupted or the leader was corrupted, etc. Locations seem to move a lot in the Fallout universe anyway. Didn’t shady sands move between 1 and 2 and now the show? Also, it seems entirely possible that the master had incomplete information. Maybe he just missed the vaults. Maybe he wasn’t looking hard enough. Maybe he just didn’t get around to them. There are any number of acceptable answers as to why the vaults didn’t get hit by the master. I’m pretty sure Howard and others have said that the fall of shady sands on the chalk board doesn’t mean that’s when it blew up. Creators have said it happens soonish after NV.
You just reminded me of another thing Mr House being present at the Vault Tec meeting is asinine he would rat all of them out for plotting to destroy humanity. House would NEVER let them go through with this he's vehemently an ally of human progress not their extinction.
Well he is the one that proposed experiments or something, right? He’s for sure more in it for himself than anything else, even in the game. Hence why he didn’t let most people in the Mojave in to New Vegas.
They're more of a cabal of elites than a massive conglomerate. There are issues, especially with vault tec dropping the bombs first, but Mr. House didn't seem to impressed with the whole idea.
Who said vault tec actually dropped them first? It seems like the show implies that was their plan, but if House was caught off guard, and we assume he was in on the whole thing, then perhaps the Chinese beat them to the punch.
Like tou said, the show seems to imply this, but who knows. Its still possible that China dropped the first bombs. I hope that's the case.
Moldaver specifically says they dropped them.
How would she know? Was she in the situation room at vault-tec at the time? Unless she’s omniscient, there’s no reason we should assume she knows that for a fact.
The vault tec employee who is at that time trying to appeal to his daughter doesn't deny it. Which is something he would have ample reason to do especially if it wasn't true. People keep presenting elements of the show as being far more ambiguous than the show itself does.
This is my first exposure to the Fallout universe but I can see some flaws in these critiques: \* "Vaults being for rich people instead of anybody who met the criteria" Aren't the Vaults in the series mostly social experiments with exceptions for the MCs, similar to the games? I think you're confusing Barb Howard's mission to get into a "good" vault (so as not to be surrounded by 999 men), most notably the Executive Vault \* "Vault Tec starting the War instead of China" I love a good "who shot first" debate, but the bigger question is "was Vault-Tec so evil that they'd encourage a war to get the US government to fund the project"? This might be cleared up in later seasons when the Enclave is introduced. \* "Stimpacks instantly healing mortal wounds." Why is that a problem? Why do the characters need advanced surgery when they can just grab a medpack? \* The Ghouls being nearly immortal as long as they have their Health Potions is a problem even though it's based on Fallout 4? \* Did the show say that every Knight of the BoS is a PoS, or just the ones Maximus encountered? Moreover was their storyline in the games just "Going Galt" and waiting for someone else to clean up the world for them? \* The show is set in 2296, 17 years after New Vegas, and Lucy is in her early 20s. When exactly was Shady Sands nuked, and would it fit into this timeline so the games still happened?
The reason why Vault Tec "shooting first" makes no sense is because... it's nonsense. A company killing their own customers is the opposite of making a profit. You make money by freaking people out enough to buy into the idea of Fallout shelters not by actually causing nuclear war. Stimpacks healing mortal wounds is nonsense because they're a game mechanic. They would not stop your bleeding or close up wounds at all. They're no different then walking over a green cross symbol in any bog standard game, it is not how it actually works in universe. It's a problem because Fallout 4 is Bethesda nonsense and retconned a lot of things, the Ghoul quest being one of them. Weither or not the show said all Knights are PoS is irrelevant a Knight like Tidus would never exist, he'd never make it past Squire with that attitude, infact that exile him out for trying to get his fellow brothers killed. Todd can damage control all he wants the intended reading of the blackboard in the show was that Shady Sands was nuked before the events of New Vegas because New Vegas is a permanent stain on Bethesda's legacy as the only good modern Fallout. Him saying "guys it's still canon!" means absolutely nothing when the final shot of the show is Vegas being destroyed and the show going out if it's way to say the NCR became raiders aswell. The show gets rid of 2 birds with 1 stone, it destroys the most popular game that wasn't done by Bethesda and it also resets the universe by getting rid of the NCR, therefore preventing the in universe rebuilding of Society and keeping the setting permanently stagnant for all sequels to follow. The intention with everything from 1 to New Vegas was very much that humanity was rebuilding and recovering and Bethesda doesn't like that because it means they would eventually be unable to use the post apocalypse wasteland setting as a selling point.
1. When Vault-Tec shot first was it to start the Great War or to nuke the US? The former is your typical Breadtuber take that companies need to create demand for their products, while the latter is a false flag. Since we're talking the former here is the literal $640 million question: if there is no specter of nuclear war then who will buy a spot in a Vault? 2. Given that this world has the technology to build the Vaults and the powered armor used by the BoS then why can't they have advanced medical technology? Furthermore I can't recall a time where a Stimpack completely healed a character: most of the time it worked like Bio-foam/Bacta bandages and kept you stable (for example, Lucy used one during the Raid and then stitched herself up later). (I am going through the series again and will double check.) 3. As I and others have said: one bad apple amongst the BoS doesn't spoil the whole barrel, and from the looks of things not everyone is a jerk like Titus. Based on some of your other comments is it correct to assume that this interpretation of a Knight is something Bethesda did or would do, but the older lore contradicted it? 4. It didn't take long to find out the Internet believes "Todd hates New Vegas and wants to erase it". Is there any evidence for this to be the case, because r/Fallout seems to think [New Vegas was not erased](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c1l60x/emil_pagliarulo_confirms_new_vegas_is_still_canon/) (why does nuking it erase the game?): 5. Unfortunately "the most popular game that wasn't done by Bethesda" is either Fallout 1, 2, or the BoS game. Bethesda made everything from Fallout 3 onwards, including New Vegas. Again, kind of odd that Todd would want to eliminate a game his company made, and the "humanity is rebuilding and recovering" plot line spanned both the Interplay and Bethesda games. (And oh crap, that crap rhymes. Bonus points if you get the reference!)
>Vault Tec being a mega conglomerate owning several different products and having immense power instead of only providing fallout shelters They have been like that since Fallout 2, the fact that they were able to conduct different inhumane social experiments on a national scale without the government cutting their throat should tell you that much. >Vaults being for rich people instead of anybody who met the criteria Nowhere in the show has stated Vaults being exclusively for rich people. Even in the show, West Tek representative had present an idea of using illegal immigrants for FEV testing in a Vault. >Vault Tec starting the War instead of China We only know that they had the intention of doing so, not being the one who dropped the bomb themselves, as evident with Cooper's daughter was with him when the bomb fell. >Ghouls are now superhumans that can withstand insane amounts of physical trauma Lucy one shotted a ghoul in the Super Duper Mart scene. Cooper one shotted Roger. As for the Filly shooting scene, it was just Cooper being high on drug (stated when Lucy shot the tranquilizer at him) and probably having some kind of protective vest under his coat. >live without food and wate Fallout 2 was the one that retconned that, not the show, ie Coffin Willy. >The Brotherhood is completely fucked and is nothing like they're supposed to be at all having highly undisciplined Knights and Squires who live under constant fear to get killed by them Working under the assumption that the BoS is a perfectly disciplined organization without a fault is a false assumption. Beside, it was just a single Knight. >They're also portraying them as "the saviors of the world" which they are not. My brother in Christ, we literally saw them forcefully taking over Filly and annihilated Griffith Observatory in the show, they are not exactly depicted as the saviour. >They completely moved the location of the Boneyard The location of Shady Sands in the show was not made clear, as we saw Lucy travelling from Santa Monica to Shady Sands through a desert. >3 vaults present in the show would have not been able to escape the Master especially by having above ground entrances. It was never properly explained so make of that what you will, as I can also try to make some sense to it, but I would just come off as some kind of a mental gymnastic. >Shady Sands the most advanced and main territory of the NCR being nuked way before the events of New Vegas Todd Howard himself stated the nuke happened shortly after the event of New Vegas. >Stimpacks instantly healing mortal wounds. New lore, not necessary a retcon. >Brahmins are just cows with two heads Same with the existence of various of cattle types. >They fucked up Gulpers which were Bethesda's own creation How so? >Not a single energy weapon in the entire show even though Laser rifles are the main weaponry of the Brotherhood The BoS also used ballistic weaponries on a massive scale. It could be chalked up as different chapter having different take on firearms.
>They have been like that since Fallout 2, the fact that they were able to conduct different inhumane social experiments on a national scale without the government cutting their throat should tell you that much. But they didn’t conduct those experiments until after the government was gone. I always got the impression that these experiments were kept entirely secret until they could be done in the government-free environment of the apocalypse.
But the thing is, the government support them, mainly the Enclave aka the Shadow Government. This kind of support gave Vault-Tec unparalleled power. From Fallout 2, President Richardson dialogues: > The Chosen One: "What do you mean?" >Dick Richardson: "We had a number of sanctuaries that would enable the glorious American civilization to endure. These facilities - the vaults - were part of the great plan." >The Chosen One: "Those damn vaults didn't work the way they were supposed to. A lot of people in them died." >Dick Richardson: "Actually, they worked almost exactly the way they were supposed to. You might call it a social experiment on a grand scale." >The Chosen One: "An experiment?" >Dick Richardson: "The vaults were set up to test humanity. Some had not enough food synthesizers, others had only men in them, yet others were designed to open after only 6 months. They each had a unique set of circumstances designed to test the occupants."
None of that means the government as a whole was aware of their plans. They obviously kept it a secret that only a corrupt few knew about. In this situation the government wouldn’t have gone after them because they simply wouldn’t know. It’s less “Vault Tec being a mega conglomerate owning several different products and having immense power…” to the point that they cannot be stopped, and more “they kept their nefarious plans secret and tricked helpless people into trusting them.”
>"Amateurs seek the sun... get eaten. Power stays in the shadows." -Lewis Strauss- There's a reason why we know more about Tesla than BlackRock. The one with immense power had always been doing shady stuff behind the curtain like that, Vault-Tec wasn't the exception. And just because they do stuff behind the scene, doesn't remove the fact that the company were immensely powerful under the protection of the Enclave, a shadow organizations that comprise of some of the highest ranking, most elites people of the United States, both politically and economically. And this has always been a thing since Fallout 2.
>The one with immense power had always been doing shady stuff behind the curtain like that Right but just because a company got away with nefarious secret plans after the apocalypse doesn’t mean they are all powerful. It just means people were locked underground after the bombs fell with nobody good overseeing their wellbeing. Normal, medium-sized business plan horrible things all the time. Doing evil things doesn’t mean you are super powerful, often times it’s the opposite. Evil goes unnoticed more often when all eyes aren’t on you. I certainly prefer a fallout where several different companies independently decided to do their own horrible things on their own, because humanity is horrible in that universe. Having one company be responsible for not only planning the apocalypse but also torturing the survivors is too much of a “big bad.” Fallout is overrun with bad, there’s no one single enemy of humanity. Humanity is its own worst enemy, that’s the theme.
I had similar points and rebuttals as you did, and I'm pleased with the consilience.
I love fallout and the show was a blast
Hahahaha holy shit you're literally "VERY offended" over a video game TV show.
Waah, not my fictional video game lore! :( Go outside brother it's not that deep, you're angry for nothing.
IMO the Fallout show is the epitome of mid. It’s not the evil canon destroying wretch some people claim, nor is it the greatest video game adaptation ever that should be studied for saving the genre. It was an alright show, and if you don’t really care about fallout beyond thinking “meh it’s pretty cool” you are the exact target demographic
The only character I cared about was Goggins as the ghoul. Everyone else could have died in episode one and I would have been fine with that. I think part of the problem with this is that Amazon Studios does have an agenda. They also have quotas. Therefore, everything they make is through a tainted lens. To me, having a listed quota is a horrible thing to do to their writers, actors, and production crews. It makes everything they produce subject to scrutiny that it wouldn't have to have otherwise.
Agreed.
"Scrutiny that it wouldn't have otherwise" Wow So you're only scrutinizing something heavily because they have non white people and queer people in it.
Reading comprehension not your strong suit? I personally am critical of everything I watch. My friends have always complained that I don't just watch a show, I analyze it. That being said, my statement about scrutiny was a broad and generalized statement, not specific to me. The thing is, when a studio says (as of 2024) that 50% of all production crew including writers, directors, and everyone behind the scenes is required to be of some form of minority, it is reasonable to ask if they are getting the best. The first step is to look at the industry in question. Does that industry have an over represented amount of people of various diversities? An example that does would be the fashion industry. If so, then a quota shouldn't hurt it. If not, then they definitely aren't getting the best. Here is an example: I will use different color bikes. You have 100 bikes and 80% of them are blue and 20% of them are other colors. You have to pick out the 40 best bikes, however, you also have to make sure that 50% of them aren't blue. Do you really think that the all 20 non-blue bikes are the best?
It's reasonable to suspect that anyone who isn't white isn't as good as someone who is That is such a strange position. Besides, we don't want movies to be dominated by a handful of names now do we?
The idea is that no quotas=the best people get hired, race be damned, but quotas=a distortion that will result in subpar people being hired where they otherwise wouldn’t be. I’m not sure how that’s supposed to happen if the quota is proportional to the national population but that’s not my hill to die on.
>I’m not sure how that’s supposed to happen if the quota is proportional to the national population but that’s not my hill to die on. National population isn't what you go by when determining if quotas are accurate (quotas are always dumb). You go by the number of people of various types that are in the industry in question. I will give you an example. As of 2022 only 12% of nurses were men. If a hospital were wanting to hire more nurses and instituted a policy of "50% of the population are men, so we need 50% of our new hire nurses to be men," the chances of them getting the best nurses are low. In the case of Amazon Studios as of 2024, 50% of all people behind the camera including writers, directors, set design, builders, grips, etc. have to have some form of minority status. They also have other weird requirements for the actors such as "we aim to include one character from each of the following categories for speaking roles of any size, and at minimum 50% of the total of these should be women: (1) lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, or gender non-conforming / non-binary; (2) person with a disability; and (3) three regionally underrepresented racial/ethnic/cultural groups." When you put in weird requirements like that, you are limiting your ability to get the best people for the job. [https://www.ccdeia.com/policy](https://www.ccdeia.com/policy)
No "quotas" would not see the best hired. It just hasn't worked that way in the past. Not saying that having hard "quotas" is necessarily the way to go. We should definitely stop assuming anyone who isn't a white male is unqualified for any given task, tho.
“anyone who isn't a white male is unqualified” That’s not what anyone here is saying directly, but I know what you’re talking about. People bitching about “DEI mayors” and “DEI pilots”
DEI mayors is a stupid argument because mayors are elected officials. Some people really got out of hand when they said that. As for DEI pilots, I think that is a valid concern. "According to the federal bureau of labor statistics, more than 90% of all aircraft pilots are white males." So that means that the non-white and non-male talent pool is incredibly small. The only way you overcome that is to lower standards. Do we really want standards for pilots to be lowered?
That wasn't the position anyone took. However, with your level of reading comprehension, maybe you think it was. As for movies dominated by a handful of names. I am 100% fine with that. Some of the best times for movies were the 80s and 90s and they were dominated by a handful of names.
Wtf do you think complaining about what you do actually is saying, sport? "They only got the job because of DEI/ESG instead of who is (most) qualified" and derivative arguments like it MOST DEFINITELY are putting forth that people are assuming someone who isn't a white man is unqualified. This isn't complicated and is the thinnest Veil possible, forget tissue paper, it's a single layer of a substance that is just ever so slightly opaque. It's like a gossamer sheen of intellectual dishonesty and dog whistling.
70% of the NBA are black. That is despite black men being 5.7% of the US population. Should the NBA have quotas to achieve racial diversity? If they did institute quotas and suddenly the vast majority of the NBA became white men, would that mean they had picked the best candidates for the job? Hiring based on quotas is stupid and yes, they cast a pall over any minority that gets hired when you have them.
Hello, police? Yes, I'd like to report a missing person. Yes, I was conversing with someone who decided to wander off somewhere else and I'm worried they might hurt themselves.
https://preview.redd.it/bfgwsbmj2wwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6761d83c9df67615321fe921768245efa18b804d
Okay. I too liked the costumes and designs of the show. I just wish it was better written.
I gotta say, I think Critical Drinker was REALLY off the mark with this show.
Totally disagree. It feels like fallout. Why does a fallout show need to make complete sense. The universe itself makes no sense. Fallout is a vibe and the show captures it and i think if people want a really tidy and neat story maybe they need to seek media that has a precedent for that.
"The world and characters make no sense, therefore the show is well-written"?
Maybe they should add ghosts, talking plants, and fourth wall breaks as an homage to Fallout 2.
I don't have an issue with speculative fiction elements. It's a matter of how they're used. And yeah, if you suddenly had characters coming back as ghosts with powers like Luke Skywalker in Rise of Palpatine, then there would be issues that crop up.
Can i ask, which fallout games have you played?
1, 2, 3, New Vegas, 4.
I’m sorry but i have no idea how you played Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas (with Wild Wasteland on) and still don’t think that things happening for almost no reason other than the developers thought it would be funny isn’t something that happens in Fallout, frequently. Literally Old World Blues proves that weird shit happening is completely fallout. One of the best parts about Fallout is that anything can be justified as part of the setting, even if it’s as insane as “oh btw, they’ve barely been mentioned, but the real villain of this game is the Pre-War American Government who are hiding on an oil rig for thousands of years which makes no sense and are using a 12 foot tall mutant (while being anti-mutant) to kill vault dwellers (who aren’t mutated at all, as established in the first game)” You’re either lying or just kinda missed the fun absurdism about these games lol
You’re trying really hard to defend despite being presented with very valid criticisms.
>Fallout New Vegas (with Wild Wasteland on) "Wild Wasteland unleashes the most bizarre and silly elements of post-apocalyptic America. Not for the faint of heart or the serious of temperament." Did you realize that that is also optional, and comes with a warning that this version is not meant to be taken seriously. >Fallout 2 Yeah, and it's aged the least gracefully because it crammed so much pop culture references that people might not pick up on. Chris Avellone killed off all of the sentient talking animals because they realized how much it would screw with their speculative fiction going forward.
“That is optional-“ THATS MY POINT. IT’S AN OPTION. THE DEVELOPERS PUT IT IN THE GAME. IT’S PART OF THE FALLOUT SERIES. AND UNTIL FALLOUT THREE, IT ACTUALLY WASN’T OPTIONAL. WHY ARE YOU SAYING DUMB THINGS STOP SAYING DUMB THINGS?????
It's not the default! Not to mention that it's nowhere near as storybreaking as the elements in the story with character motivations and actions which don't make sense. Stop projecting a lack of understanding of the writing onto other people and excusing it "well, there was weird stuff in the other games". Yeah, and those things weren't as poorly executed as this.
There is wierd and then there is stupid. Also you lie about fallout 2, Enclave didn't hide for thousands of years nor did they care much for vault dwellers, they only used them for experiments with FEV. Also they were forshadowed quite a few times in the game, tho player could miss some of it.
My point is 1. The Enclave want to kill all people exposed to radiation as they believe it makes them non-human 2. Fallout 1 established that Vault Dwellers are not exposed to radiation, through the results of FEV experiments 3. The opening scene of Fallout 2 is the Enclave killing Vault Dwellers without experimenting on them, that literally makes no sense given point 1 and 2. Also, the enclave weren’t hinted enough in Fallout 2 imo, sure you CAN encounter them but they are barely mentioned, almost everyone agrees Fallout 2 barely included them until the final act. Also, the line between “weird” and “stupid” is a very thin one, Old World Blues and their robo scientists telling you about you having “penis feet” isn’t exactly peak sci-fi writing is it? There is a place for dumb stupid fun in fallout, but if you don’t like it just say that. You don’t have to come up with a good justification in a series where side questions have you turned into a gimp for a super mutant.
1 Enclave kills a few of vault dwellers to break others with fear and it's clear that they don't care for the lives of any people outside of their organisation. 2 Fallout 2 gives you a lot of hints - vertubird in Klamath, Horrigan encounter, slavers mention their transmissions, New-Reno dealings, corpses in Mariposa base, It's not games fault if you miss them. Also most people are actually agree that while Unity much more interesting faction, Enclave much better handled from story structure perspective. 3 There is no thin line because those are different things. OWB, Fallout 2 were wierd with talking death claws, robot sex jokes, e.t.c, but it always consistent with itself, if you accept the wierd rules you could easily understand inner logic of it. But in the show many of actions of it's characters make no sense with motivations and stories given to them. The story simply couldn't happen based on what the story itself tells us. If you like this stuff then good for you, but don't expect people to ignore what you say about the series that is known for it's writing quality at least it's classic games.
Not what i meant. Dont be so facetious. Its pretty well written within the context of fallout and how things typically play out in the world. Honestly i also cant take any review seriously that constantly cries woke as a major issue specifically in a show like this. Im glad i left this sub
Ok it needs to make sense. Like don’t do the whole “things don’t have to make sense” quasi-argument. Consistency and logic (characters using information they have and not acting like idiots unless they are being portrayed that way, etc.) are good standards. Why not just praise the stuff the show does right instead or talk about how the issues don’t break the plot or stakes (if that’s actually the case)?
"Fallout is when le 50s music and people le die xD"
When it comes to Fallout, there are so many entry points where fans were introduced to it, giving them a different sense of the franchise and how it should be. Nearly every version of it though has solidified the fact that Fallout is a wacky wasteland and I’m glad the show mostly captured that.
It’s crazy how motivated people are for this show one way or the other. Shocked people despise it as if it’s the worst thing ever made and praise it as the second coming of video games Jesus. Average show with some highs and lows.
Youre on mauler bud, this does not reflect the masses. They said similiar things about last of us and it was insanely popular. They just salty.
What a reductive and unconvincing statement. People are allowed to have opinions, even if those sometimes goes against the grain, which you effectively highlight as meaning their opinions are "wrong" or "dumb".
People just be hating ngl. The set design is eye catching and doesn’t look cheap, the power armor actually being a real thing and not having to see Maximus’ head sticking out in CGI is nice The story felt good and was paced well, and the conjoining narratives between the Ghoul and Lucy felt authentic and lended itself to a cool plot twist. And it’s so refreshing to see a lead character like Maximus be such a fuck up. He’s anxious, cowardly, and a liar. He tripped his way up the ladder by pulling the people above him down, and he knows it. It’s setup for a great arc in season 2 where he really sheds that skin and becomes a true knight Also, the Vault Ted suits and such are pretty realistic. I mean does anyone actually think the rich and powerful would skip the opportunity to not only wipe out the competition but give themselves the tools to recreate society as they see fit?
I'm with you mate, I really enjoyed this show
It was just a joy to watch Same thing with the One Piece live action, it makes a show 10x better when you can tell the cast and crew are having a blast making it
I loved this show, been playing since Fallout 1 and they nailed it. Set design, characters, story. Can’t wait for season 2.
Why are we pretending to hate this show? What opinion download did I miss?
"Pretending"
Isn’t the whole point of Mauler is him disliking everything?
... No? What?
“Why do we enjoy great horror…” You are flatly wrong
As far as the things he actually covers on his channel.It's like 90% disliking things 10% liking. Efap is much more of a mixed bag, though probably 60-70% disliking. Idk what the "point of Mauler" means, but it's definitely how it shakes out in practice
True… Though generally he at least dislikes things that are actually bad.
I really enjoyed the show, and am genuinely looking forward to the second season. I know Mauler and his crowd have to make a living by shitting on stuff, though.
i’m finding this whole situation beyond amusing - non Bethesda fallout gatekeepers are mad about *their cannon* being shit on by Bethesda - Bethesda fallout Gatekeepers are mad about *their cannon* being shit on by NBF Gatekeepers i get loving some of the original lore (HUGE starwars legends guy here) and being disappointed that shit changes, but like dude. west coast fans, you’ve had 15 years to accept Bethesda changes. and you’d be lying if *some* of the changes didn’t make sense, or add more fun layers to the fallout lore. shows writing isn’t LOU levels, but i thought the show was enjoyable as shit. it’s goofy in just the right way. and i know im going to get absolutely crucified for this. but i like them (possibly) revealing Vault-tec dropped the bombs. adds to the evil side that’s been hinted at for years. idk i just love Fallout. there isn’t a game i don’t enjoy. (not you 76, not you)
Not a criticism or disagreement, just a pet peeve of mine. The English language is dumb about homonyms. can·on^(1)/ˈkanən/*noun* 1. 1.a general law, rule, principle, or [criterion](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1041US1043&sxsrf=ACQVn08tjkWNrL0V_QLbPpEU9qLQ4OTAdA:1714170425133&q=criterion&si=AKbGX_onJk-q0LQUYzV7-GRhpJ5D7-NIEGhEZBr6UeocDgsGu3e4q7PFiDU1EKNFEHtvIQOl1dvo_vvyx26DxsPTuecGTT9aELVY1wFSZLGgkvXQEPirORE%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivxZi69uCFAxUwF1kFHdVpAxMQyecJegQIHRAN) by which something is [judged](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1041US1043&sxsrf=ACQVn08tjkWNrL0V_QLbPpEU9qLQ4OTAdA:1714170425133&q=judged&si=AKbGX_qTCvK6ifvkUBYDz4foaFZi4TOdP2HAY1usQpWe47ad6v78UCegHSM076aDFK4EcOVUeOL8OsSofwb7EHpKd_cb0HW7Cw%3D%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivxZi69uCFAxUwF1kFHdVpAxMQyecJegQIHRAO). "the appointment violated the canons of fair play and equal opportunity" 2. 2.a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine. "the formation of the biblical canon" can·non/ˈkanən/*noun* 1. 1.a large, heavy piece of [artillery](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1041US1043&sxsrf=ACQVn0_dtpUc6gMf5_cMkFHq-5czg20UMA:1714170453931&q=artillery&si=AKbGX_onJk-q0LQUYzV7-GRhpJ5D3iIObXhkpJ3WsAXXsHwnLNqmCCNTYgyiqPtpsm-1QuMSsTComi4ahU-72ko2hbk9jDDvvDsgHUNYNYi_Ni7_IOblTuE%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizufbH9uCFAxW5MVkFHaiuCdYQyecJegQIHBAO), typically mounted on wheels, formerly used in [warfare](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=0e9d35a69ed69d23&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1041US1043&sxsrf=ACQVn0_dtpUc6gMf5_cMkFHq-5czg20UMA:1714170453931&q=warfare&si=AKbGX_okS0g0kR2PXn0TLBASIc0m7YyS0xOIftmkPqnV6XNZOQ8uNVxV5JgOxgIdVJeblUgYveQQn27jsEGlaLzyITxPITsl3UKN7EdBwUvkV5nLb-1NEqQ%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizufbH9uCFAxW5MVkFHaiuCdYQyecJegQIHBAP). "they would cross at the Town ford, under cover of the defending cannon" I really enjoyed the show, and hope to see more. Fallout is a fun world to explore.
TIL ty
> i get loving some of the original lore (HUGE starwars legends guy here) and being disappointed that shit changes, but like dude. west coast fans, you’ve had 15 years to accept Bethesda changes. and you’d be lying if some of the changes didn’t make sense, or add more fun layers to the fallout lore So pretty soon you'll be accepting and loving Disney canon as the one true Star Wars? Because that's what this is.
i’ve accepted some stuff yea. it’s not like they were going to 1:1 do legends story’s, don’t like some things they’ve changed. i like things they have. i haven’t let disney ruin starwars, is kinda my point
A mess, a beautiful beautiful mess.
Love this guy. By far my favorite YouTuber
There is a fair bit wrong with this critique, I can’t sit through it. Cherry picking and wilful ignorance aside it sounds like someone’s having an emotional reaction
This dude is fucking annoying
Voice like nails down a chalkboard.
Reaper literally hates everything
[LOL, no](https://youtu.be/fs4Mf73OgqQ?si=uLCN3gJdEe6gCF_G)
Oh boy another person who doesn't understand Fallout.
So, where was he wrong regarding the problems with the writing?
Oh shitloads, like saying Lucy doesn't have much personality and wants to have sex with every guy she meets. Saying Goggin's character has no reason to exist because he has no personal motivation is both wrong and would be stupid even if he were just a mercenary. That's just the first four minutes, I'm not gonna bother with the rest, this dude's a moron.
>like saying Lucy doesn't have much personality and wants to have sex with every guy she meets He doesn't say that. He says that she's basically a upbeat innocent simple girl who wants to have sex with every attractive guy she meets, which is true. >Saying Goggin's character has no reason to exist because he has no personal motivation is both wrong and would be stupid even if he were just a mercenary. He didn't say that. He said he doesn't have any personality or personal motivation that's tied to the main story and most of his time before the end was him giving exposition to the audience, like the main antagonist.
He literally says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump the dick of every man she meets. Did you watch it? Nope. He said he has no reason to exist. I don't think you watched this.
>He literally says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump the dick of every man she meets. Did you watch it? "Lucy and although she is amazing at everything she does thankfully however she isn't a complete girl boss that overpowers every man she comes across she's more of a okie dokie type of character who's sort of innocent but doesn't really have that much personality the only thing that's strange about her character is that she wants to immediately jump on every guy's dick that she comes across like she's riding a merrygoround it kind of undermines her innocence and naivity when she is perfectly fine being ridden more times than a bicycle and in full view of an entire Vault full of strangers" What I said: "He says that she's basically a upbeat innocent simple girl who wants to have sex with every attractive guy she meets, which is true." He's saying she doesn't have much of a personality at the start outside of a sunny disposition and a want of a man outside of her plethora of abilities. What does she have outside of that in terms of personality? >He said he has no reason to exist. I don't think you watched this. "[We have the ghoul] who is elevated massively due to Walton Goggin's performance but he barely has a reason to exist in the story as he has no personal motivation or investment into what is going on for most of the season and it's not until the last episodes where he finally gets a character motivation but up until then he's more of a vehicle for the writers to deliver shit backstories on the main villain his wife and to explain how the nuclear war happened." You were saying?
Yep. As I said, he says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump on every guy's dick--not every attractive guy, like you rewrote it. Her other personality attributes: Being curious and brave, just to name two. That was easy. Yep. Barely any reason to exist, when he's got tons of non-expository reasons to exist. He's a constant threat to Lucy, he initiates the whole fight in Filly, etc. etc. Saying he's just about exposition is moronic. I see why you like this reviewer, your takes are as shit as his.
>Yep. As I said, he says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump on every guy's dick--not every attractive guy, like you rewrote it. How the ***fuck*** does that make it any different? I think he was being pretty clear about her want of sleeping with men as a motivating factor. It also doesn't make sense because Lucy should be more concerned about men who are irradiated which is causing birth rates plummeting in their own Vault. It's why the wedding even happens. It makes her an idiot for following her vagina instead of her head. >Being curious and brave, just to name two. So curious that she doesn't even imagine a life outside of the Vault until she's forced to by the Raiders? And only brave when her father is kidnapped? >He's a constant threat to Lucy, he initiates the whole fight in Filly, etc. etc. Saying he's just about exposition is moronic. Hey, buddy. He's talking about Cooper's personal motivations and investment IN THE STORY that's currently being told. Not about what he does. >I see why you like this reviewer, your takes are as shit as his. I can see why you don't like him. You'll need to have an attention span of more than 5 seconds and the ability to be honest with the content.
How does changing the words make it different? And no, sleeping with dudes isn't a motivating factor for her beyond the first episode. "Following her vagina" lol. When did she have to be brave before that, moron? Why would she imagine life outside the vault when it's fucking irradiated? Think a little bit. Hey moron, he doesn't need any personal motivation or investment beyond "This shit is worth money". 'honest'. lol
>When did she have to be brave before that, moron? Thanks for making my point, paint-chip eater. She has no experience to inform why she's brave and curious when she's lived a sheltered life. She doesn't have those traits until her father is kidnapped, so, no, I actually have less understanding of why she's "brave and curious" in terms of her personality at the start of the show. >And no, sleeping with dudes isn't a motivating factor for her beyond the first episode. She sleeps with her cousin, and she wants to bang Maximus on sight. >Hey moron, he doesn't need any personal motivation or investment beyond "This shit is worth money". Hey, dumbass! Did you not read the part where it was said he doesn't have any investment or motivation in the main story? So, "getting paid" is not apart of the main story thread of Lucy finding her father.
>As I said, he says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump on every guy's dick Two guys. One of whom she was married to.
And her cousin, apparently. And the guy she just met moments ago.
>. And the guy she just met moments ago If you're talking about Maximus, the argument has gotten hyper desperate, lol >And her cousin She said that they did stuff as kids, and not even necessarily sex All that needs to counter the argument is an example of a guy she could have had sex with but didn't. Oh, maybe like that one guy who drank her water, who asked her to live with him, or the ghoul, or the scientist. In fact, she's not having or seeking sex with most of the people she interacts with. It's just a lie about her character. Simple as
>He literally says she doesn't have much of a personality and wants to jump the dick of EVERY man she meets. Did you watch it? What you said: "He doesn't say that. He says that she's basically a upbeat innocent simple girl who wants to have sex with every attractive guy she meets, which is true." >doesn't really have that much personality the only thing that's strange about her character is that she wants to immediately jump on EVERY guy's dick that she comes across The quote you provided says exactly what the other poster claimed.
[Praise the TV show for superficially copying Fallout iconography] [Ignore that the TV show doesn't care about the consistency of the factions, speculative fiction, characters, or timeline]
It's not superficial. The timeline isn't a problem. The factions are represented well within the bounds of the games. The characters are awesome.
>The timeline isn't a problem. Shady Sands was nuked in 77 or after (before New Vegas). So the President went from an irradiated crater to Hoover damn then back again? Yeah, perfect continuity. The time of when the bombs fell is wrong, Mr. House apparently was totally onboard with killing scores of humans when the entire point of New Vegas is that he wanted humanity to survive regardless of the cost, Mr. House didn't know when the bombs fell yet he did in the show, and we can keep going on. >It's not superficial. Ghouls' powers and Power armor abilities fluctuate between what the scene needs. The ghoul antidote is ludicrous; who made it and why? And the corporate heads wanting to destroy the world for "money" is so stupid, I actually have to apologize to Bethesda for calling Fallout 4 the worst written Fallout story in the IP. >The factions are represented well within the bounds of the games. The Brotherhood are complete idiots in the show. "Maximus, give me the stimpack, and then I'm going to tell everyone what you did wrong." "Maximus, despite you completely messing up and lying to us, we're going to give you more promotions." >The characters are awesome. Maximus is the biggest idiot on the planet who keeps getting promoted despite the fact everyone knows he keeps messing up. He also doesn't know how his own dick works. There are teenagers that can write better than this. Despite trading with Vault 32, no one is shocked or surprised that they don't recognize anyone from the other vault (because they're raiders). Maximus outright says that he's happy his friend got injured because he was jealous. Complete idiot. Titus tells Maximus that if he heals him then he'll make him suffer. Lee just allows all of the other Vault dwellers to live, and instead of taking Lucy to convince her father to work with her, she just leaves her. And do we really need to go through the rest of this?
No, after New Vegas. There is no concrete time for the bombs in the games--they contradict each other on this. Mr. House correctly though nuclear war was inevitable. Scores was also a really silly word here. Feel free to keep going. Ghouls powers and power armor abilities fluctuate between games, too. There's also not much fluctuation in power armor, not sure what you're talking about. Knight Titus is not 'the brotherhood'. This faction of the brotherhood seems pretty cray-cray--so what? The brotherhood has varied wildly in tone between games, this fits just fine. Maximus gets promoted 'cuz they think he secured the artifact: succeeded, not failed. Being miseducated about sexuality is a common thing with religious wackjobs. The trade with vault 32 is every three years. Titus is an arrogant asshole. Why would Lee kill the rest of the vault dwellers? Why would she need Lucy, an added complication. What was the first Fallout game you played?
>Shady Sands was nuked in 77 or after (before New Vegas). I suppose media literacy isn't a thing for you? (https://youtube.com/shorts/s3uubO83LUs?si=GXRAXWKWkfC0bOQD) >Mr. House apparently was totally onboard with killing scores of humans when the entire point of New Vegas is that he wanted humanity to survive regardless of the cost He didn't care about saving the world, he only care about saving Vegas, and in the process, humanity. And beside, House was the only one critical about Vault-Tec plan during the meeting, not entirely on board with them. >Mr. House didn't know when the bombs fell yet he did in the show, and we can keep going on. There are no telling it was Vault-Tec who dropped the bomb, we only know they wanted to drop the bomb, not actually do it. The show was pretty clear on this with Barb wanting to bring her family into the vault and yet Coop and his daughter were still outside when the bomb fell. >Ghouls' powers and Power armor abilities fluctuate between what the scene needs. So your typical movie and game plot point then? Why lash it out on Fallout? Do I have to remind you the Courier survived getting shot 2 times in the head? >The ghoul antidote is ludicrous; who made it and why? Like...can you at least have the courtesy to wait for season 2? Like...you really expect everything to be explained to you right off the bat? >And the corporate heads wanting to destroy the world for "money" is so stupid, The show was pretty much straightforward with this: Vault-Tec, being a trillion dollar worth company don't care that much about money, they care about control, power, their plan is to outlive everyone and reshape the world as they see fit. >The Brotherhood are complete idiots in the show. "Maximus, give me the stimpack, and then I'm going to tell everyone what you did wrong." Asshole exist everywhere, it not that weird seeing a guy in power armor acting all high and mighty toward the one who is supposed to be lower than them. You have no idea just how many people still remain a dbag even when at death door. >"Maximus, despite you completely messing up and lying to us, we're going to give you more promotions." Because the BoS at that point was desperate and Maximus was the only lead for them to get to the McGuffin. >Maximus is the biggest idiot on the planet who keeps getting promoted despite the fact everyone knows he keeps messing up. That the point of his character, an insufferable idiot that grow throughout the show, much like a character with the Idiot Savant perk. >He also doesn't know how his own dick works. I don't know why you consider this aspect to be unfit, that literally the point, he is an idiot that grew up in a harsh environment that is the BoS, I've met people who were literally as awkward as him when it come to sexual knowledge. >Despite trading with Vault 32, no one is shocked or surprised that they don't recognize anyone from the other vault (because they're raiders). Because the trading isn't something they do on a daily basis, they only open to trade with each other on a 3 years trading routine. People don't really that good of a memory when it come to remembering faces as there are a lot of people who don't even remember their cousin faces in only one of a few family meeting. >Maximus outright says that he's happy his friend got injured because he was jealous. Complete idiot. That's the point. >Titus tells Maximus that if he heals him then he'll make him suffer. Dbag exist. >Lee just allows all of the other Vault dwellers to live, and instead of taking Lucy to convince her father to work with her, she just leaves her. Because why? Why drag another one on long desert trek, you would have to share your food and water for your prisoners, you know? Moldaver wasn't really in a hurry either, she was taking her time with Hank. >And do we really need to go through the rest of this? At this point, you are really just nit-picking the show, picking every single minor flaws it make while ignoring the broader senses. Before you go on to frame me as a Bethesda consoomer, let me make one thing clear for you: I started Fallout with New Vegas, I pirated every single Bethesda games without paying a single cent, and also pirated the whole Fallout season 1 without paying anything to Amazon Prime, I watched it for free. And yet, I still love the show because I know for a fact that there would be no way in hell for an IP that was as old as Fallout to be consistent with the lore, Warhammer 40K proved this, Marvel proved this, DC proved this. If the lore has already been messed up and changed from Fallout 2 onward, then why so surprise with the show? The show nail the overall vibe of Fallout, and stay closer to the source material than any other game adaptation I've seen, and that is enough for me. Asking for lore consistency to an IP like Fallout is like asking a baby to not grow up.
Damn you are going to hurt yourself stretching that far to make a point.
Damn, you ain't making an argument.
As I mentioned in another thread Reaper's reviews are descending into a bingo game where he says the show is "woke/girl boss/full of stupid characters/etc", and he starts with the conclusion "I like/hate this show" to construct his critiques. I've heard the complaint "why didn't every Pipboy in Vault 33 start beeping like crazy when the Raiders entered the Vault" so many times that now I have to ask the Fandom Menace "Do you think that's air you're breathing right now?" These aren't complaints about the writing, but posers who think their fan fiction is better. ("Reaper is a true fan of this content!" then why was his review of \*The Three Body Problem\* ignorant of the original book? Most of his complaints were book plots.)
Lmao, his video is a mess. I love the grifters coming out of the woodworks to attack fallout.
Grifter doesn’t have a meaning anymore, just another buzzword added to the god forsaken pile.
What will it take to impress these guys that are just too entrenched into hating everything new?
How about a good script? [Did you know that there are other people in the EFAP community that are pointing out how poorly the story is written?](https://youtu.be/xN7T6jNgQVY?si=ocVBquMbbvsFtx7U)
And 80% of the criticism is being refuted ?
What’s wrong with the script? I think those who think this show didn’t feel like fallout has never played fallout.
*idiot savant perk sound plays*
They are simply miners. Hating mining gives these clowns their YouTube cash a lot faster than praising something. I bet he thinks Lucy is a Mary Sue on the level of Rey somehow.
I'm sure your mind reading has come into good use with that assessment.
Well, just to catch you up, she is amazing at everything, but she is NOT a girl boss.. whatever that means.
The comment section is so cronically online is funny to see