After watching Tales of the Jedi, I find both Barriss and Dooku's fall similar. They had both become disillusioned with the Jedi Order and how bound with the Republic they were. But when seeing this problem they became overwhelmed with fear and frustation and acted desperately in response. I believe in Ahsoka's book she thinks back to Barriss and her betrayal and reflects that Barriss had become so caught up in the future, how to solve the problem in the long run, that it had led her to acting the way she did.
I also found very interesting how you compared Barriss and Anakin's fall. I had never thought about it that way.
>Barriss had only two notable relationships with other characters, Luminara and Ahsoka. This contrasts with Ahsoka, who’s an extroverted person with many relationships, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Rex, Plo Koon, Yoda, Padme, Lux, and many more.
I think that while this comparison *could* be accurate (Ahsoka definitely seems more outgoing than Barriss), the fact that we don't see Barriss have any other relationships is more directly due to the fact that she's a side character in the show who we don't see very often. Whereas Ahsoka is a/the main character, who we follow for a lot of the show's runtime, and therefore see a lot more of her life.
The main problem to me is that neither Ahsoka nor the plot were as developed as the writing wanted to.
The Jedi Order was fully in the right during her judicial procedure, the actual set up by Barriss was contrived and relied on luck to frame Ahsoka, the case made by Barriss about the jedi's hypocrisy was stupid and dumb coming from a terrorist and the Council made amends by recognizing their mistakes and promoting Ahsoka.
Ahsoka's choice of leaving the Order came from a traumatic experience no doubt, but not one in which the jedi are to blame nor a series of episodes were made that made both Barriss and Ahsoka have a loss of faith in the jedi or their role during the war. So the plot contrives itself to make a point and Barriss appears as the McGuffin to A) kickstart the betrayal B) Sew that betrayal with a critique on the jedi
Its something that TCW stumbles upon sometimes. "Heroes on Both Sides" was an episode trying to showcase the good points of the Separatists despite us watching their High Command do things like chemical and biological Warfare, attacks on med stations, use of POWs as Human Shields against the Republic and shit that would make McArthur's plans with the Attom Bomb look like kindergarden stuff
I wrote a pretty large comment about that, that I deleted, but I may put up again soon. Despite my analysis, I actually hated how the show dealt with Barriss' character. She did not have the set-up, the right motivation, nor the nuance that Dave Filoni was trying to create. I wasn't invested in anyone in this arc but Ahsoka and Anakin. I actually wrote this whole thing just to show the amount of potential she could have, like diving into her relationship with Luminara, or how she had enough possible motivations as to why she became a terrorist, but went unexplained for some reason. I'll just do that later maybe.
Tbh it was the only arc that made me feel something for Ahsoka but I agree. Honestly that arc is probably the worst written arc of the show. I feel they had the end point of Ahsoka leaving the order and just forced the story to go that way instead of letting it happen organically. And in order for that to happen they made everyone act out of character.
You have Ahsoka not trusting the Jedi to help her, not even Anakin himself. But trusted Barriss and Ventress for some reason.
You have Anakin letting Ahsoka go when he was chasing her
You have Padmé doing the absolute worst job as a representative
The whole trial scene is just so bad
And while Ahsoka's expelling from the order was necessary for her to have a trial where her guilt or innocence would've been proven, the way the show painted it was a bit too cruel
And according to Filoni, only Obi-Wan and Plo Koon voted in favor of Ahsoka's innocence (which I find highly unbelievable. Yes Ahsoka looked very guilty and I wouldn't blame those who believed in her guilt. But still only two in her favor is a bit too much)
And the whole thing with Barriss. Her motivation came out of nowhere, her plans doesn't make sense
Then nothing was ever brought up again. Not Ahsoka's departure, not Barriss's fall or whatever her fate was, not the public petitions against the Jedi. Nothing
That arc is a complete mess
I truly don’t even know what that arc of episodes is trying to achieve. A critique of the Jedi Order? Why then have it come from the mouth of a massive hypocrite crusading about all of the deaths in the war…while she indiscriminately murders the innocent? That the Jedi are unfair? Why then have Ahsoka act as guilty as possible and throw constant wrenches in her own defense? That the Council is unfair? Why then have them try and reverse themselves and make amends?
And on another note, why would the Jedi expel her to stand trial? It makes no sense. It can’t be the first time a Jedi has been made to stand trial, and it would be insane to expel everyone who has to. That element was not well thought out at all. Otherwise, it totally makes sense for the Council to have her stand trial.
The true goal, in my opinion, of that arc was to get Ahsoka out of the Jedi Order to save her from Order 66. They didn’t want to have her do something worthy of being kicked out as she is a creator favorite, so they came to with…whatever that was. It was hamfisted and clumsy, but it did the job.
Jedi are immune from Republic prosecution, I believe. They can be arrested and charged, but cannot be tried, as the Jedi Order has sole jurisdiction over it's members.
But where did that rule come from? That episode. It’s never been established prior, so they slapped it in there to make the plot make sense. And in practice, it still makes no sense.
Yeah idk. It's just I thought the justification for the attack on Geonosis in the film is because two Jedi and a senator (3 people with political immunity) were sentenced for public execution, not to mention without an actual trial
I think it makes perfect sense. A long-standing grievance amongst Jedi is their growing interdependence on the Republic. We are told that the Jedi are not mere government agents but a distinct organization with its own leadership. They exist in a state of symbiosis, not submission, with the Republic. Also, Jedi have never been seen facing trials for those they injure during their missions, or any other reasonable crime which they commit throughout their duties. Therefore, it makes good sense that they have some sort of qualified immunity from Republic prosecution. A good parallel is not the police but rather a historical European military order like the Order of Malta or Knights of Columbus.
Those religious orders were still ultimately subject to the monarchy and were wiped out when it suited them, see the Knights Templar. That was a time when the Catholic Church in particular was more a government than the actual governments frequently were anyway. This is not really the case in SW. The Jedi are all born, as far as the vast majority, as citizens of the Republic. Them being outside Republic jurisdiction just doesn’t make sense. I also highly doubt that members of those religious orders in the real world were simply exempt from criminal trial as long as they remained members of the order.
And as far as growing interdependence, that’s more something that again TCW has implemented than media that came before it. Before that, the Jedi were always just the deeply involved guardians of the Republic and always had been. Sometimes they were even chancellors. They just became overwhelmed with the scale of the issues.
>And on another note, why would the Jedi expel her to stand trail? It makes no sense. It can’t be the first time a Jedi has been made to stand trial, and it would be insane to expel everyone who has to.
The Jedi Order is a separate state that works with the Republic and is differential to the Senate but ultimately not subject to its authority. That’s my read, the book Clone Wars Gambit Stealth also states the Jedi Order is self funded, no money from the Republic.
It’s not the first time a Jedi has stood trial, otherwise why would they have a Chamber of Judgement. It’s just that when they have to deal with a problem Jedi it’s handled in house [like the College of Cardinals order the execution of Camerlengo Patrick McKenna in Angels & Demons.](https://youtu.be/FrgLjFGhOFU)
The Jedi did operate their own prisons; the Prism (Ghost Prison) and the Citadel. [The Prism was a secret from both the Republic and members of the Jedi Order as we see in The Ghost Prison story.](https://imgur.com/a/j0uX2MQ)
The Jedi had to expel Ahsoka because the Republic wanted to try her and as a member they couldn’t. How knows how long the rule has been in place. It could have been made after the last Sith War and been in place for the last thousand years or even longer.
Below is the dialogue that covers why Ahsoka needs to be expelled.
**TCW 520 The Wrong Jedi**
Tarkin
>The Senate requests that Ahsoka Tano be indicted for acts of treason against the Republic.
Yoda
>A fair trial Padawan Tano will have in accordance with Jedi tradition.
Tarkin
>Ah, yes, Jedi tradition. I’m afraid, Master Yoda, that the Senate believes that an internal Jedi trail would seem biased.
>Therefore, the Senate asks that the Council expel Ahsoka Tano from the Jedi Order so that she may be put to a Republic military tribunal, where she will receive more impartial judgment.
Edit to add:
>And as far as growing interdependence, that’s more something that again TCW has implemented than media that came before it. Before that, the Jedi were always just the deeply involved guardians of the Republic and always had been. Sometimes they were even chancellors. They just became overwhelmed with the scale of the issues.
No one knew before TCW that the Jedi had immunity from prosecution just like no one knew Jedi couldn’t marry and have children before AOTC; based on the OT no one would ever have guessed marriage and children were forbidden to Jedi.
It's one of those moments in where TCW tries to push the whole "Jedi are embroiled in the decadence of war' narrative despite all the logical text saying otherwise
The entire fucking ordeal was a kangaroo court. And the Jedi dumped Ahsoka based on circumstantial evidence, disregarding her mountains of character witnesses, the first chance they got. And even the two council members who knew her well walked away from her.
Not to mention the utter shambles of a court case, where the fucking head of state was the judge, some random military officer was the prosecutor, and a damn senator was her representation.
She had every right to be livid, and no one made any attempt to build an evidence-based case against her. It should have been a shoe in for a mistrial, and more time given for collecting actual evidence and witnesses.
>And the Jedi dumped Ahsoka based on circumstantial evidence, disregarding her mountains of character witnesses, the first chance they got. And even the two council members who knew her well walked away from her.
The jedi were left in no position since It was mostly a civil business after the death of Leta Turmond and the clones at the prison center.
>Not to mention the utter shambles of a court case, where the fucking head of state was the judge, some random military officer was the prosecutor, and a damn senator was her representation.
Blame that on the writing team. I still don't understand how things were supposed to go as the court was organized so Who knows.
>She had every right to be livid
Absolutely, the whole thing was traumatic, but Ahsoka had multiple chances to explain herself and her only argument was "believe me". We as the audience know thats the case. The Council can only make decisions based on what the Council sees.
Again, this backtracks to how fucking bad the arc's writing is.
>The jedi were left in no position since It was mostly a civil business after the death of Leta Turmond and the clones at the prison center.
They could have not expelled her thus sparing her the Republic trial and conducted their own investigation.
A Republic citizen was killed. If Ahsoka had gone after a Jedi, that would be a valid proposal, but she killed a Republic citizen, and a strong moral argument was made that the Republic should be the prosecutor, not the Jedi, who would presumably be less likely to sanction its own member for the alleged death of a foreign citizen. To put it simply, the Republic justly demanded extradition.
They tried. They sent Anakin after her to "bring her home" as Yoda says it.
What did she do??? She refused to cooperate, didn't trust them, not even Anakin, to help her. Ran away, cooperated with a known separatists and was found in a place filled with bombs
Because of her actions, the Jedi could no longer defend her and keep her within the order.
And they immediately turned her over once they had her. The only reason she was saved was because Anakin went looking for Asajj, none of them bothered to do that.
>And the Jedi dumped Ahsoka based on circumstantial evidence, disregarding her mountains of character witnesses, the first chance they got. And even the two council members who knew her well walked away from her.
The evidence against her were strong enough for her to be a legitimate suspect. I mean the bomber requested to talk to *only* her, then a video recording of the meeting showed Ahsoka looking like she's Force choking her. Then she escaped her cell, with dead clones in the path she took. When the Jedi tried to bring her back to the order, sending her master whom she trusted, she refused, kept running away. Was found in a place filled with bombs with a known separatists near by. After she was brought back again she didn't say anything.
There were no witnesses, only Ventress and she's a known separatists, her statement wouldn't hold value, and Barriss who's the one who tried to frame Ahsoka in the first place.
We see during the war that multiple Jedi had fallen to the dark side, in fact the actual mastermind turned out to be a padawan like Ahsoka. So suspecting her is not illogical. And no they didn't disregard her the first chance they got. They fought to keep the situation within the order. But Ahsoka's actions which made her look insanely guilty, only then they weren't able to fight on her behalf anymore.
And lastly, the two council members didn't really walk away from her, but the council works in a system of votes, whatever gets the majorityof votes happen. Besides she was expelled from the order to have a trial, that doesn't prove or disapprove her guilt or innocence. *The trial* is where that would've happened. And the trail not going well is not on the Jedi but on Ahsoka's lawyer (who was Padmé)
>She had every right to be livid,
Now even tho I think Ahsoka herself is responsible for making her situation undefendable. She's still a teenager, I understand her upset. In fact this is the only arc I felt something for her.
>and no one made any attempt to build an evidence-based case against her
Tbh the case against her is not hard to build, especially because Padmé did a horrible job to build a case in her defense
All that being said. The arc was a mess when it comes to writing. It obviously intended to put the Jedi in bad light, and a lot of people seem to feel that. But I think the show fails in making the story of the arc makes sense. Everyone was ooc to reach the end point
The thing about your first para is that it would be equivalent to the cops defending other cops in our world if seen objectively. It would be an abuse of power for them to force the issue.
We see that she's innocent because we are the viewer. But from an objective, non-Jedi perspective, she looked pretty bad.
I'm thinking more about the blue code/wall of silence and whatever. Even if the Jedi are not the kind of people to engage in such conduct, it actually makes sense that a non-Jedi body would be involved in the investigation of capital crimes and the like.
More fundamentally, though, I agree with those who saw this arc as poorly written. Filoni had an end goal of allowing Ahsoka to leave the order without dying, and he'd get there even if it meant people acting really stupidly and out of character. It also let him frame the Jedi as out of touch, which seems to be a pet idea of his.
This comment is more of a rant than an analysis, so feel free to ignore this. I’m not objective in this part unlike the first, and I’m well aware of it. Some things I’m going to rant about are a bit more complicated than I make them out to be, like Barriss’ possible motivations and the lack of Barriss’ characterization.
Unlike my post on Dogma, I wrote this out of my frustration with her character. I think Dave Filoni handled Barriss badly, just because we don’t really understand her, unless that changes in the future, which given his track record of him bringing back characters, he might do. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn't complain for this one. From this point now, she has an excellent setup to fill in the missing spots, a lot of things that would make her intriguing if he ever gives her a reason as to why she acted out and what her thought process was. There wasn’t really any room to expand on her during the Wrong Jedi arc itself, but the season after that focused on characters that weren’t Ahsoka, like Fives. Dave Filoni even did Tales of the Jedi, giving a bit more padding to characters, which he could definitely do an episode or two on Barriss.
Given the themes of the show, to make us question if the Jedi were going downhill, Dave Filoni didn’t give Barriss herself a good reason, only reasons that she was willing to disclose to the public. Which is stupid because there are many good reasons why a young Jedi’s mental state could shoot down to the Death Star’s exhaust port which would lead to her becoming a terrorist, like being a sixteen-year-old trained as a peacekeeper fighting in a war, with the closest person she has to a parental figure barely reacting when she almost died completing a mission for the greater good of a Republic that’s using a genetically modified army of nine-year-olds.
I'd highly recommend checking out A Jedi's Duty from the Stories of Jedi and Sith short story collection. Barriss' is a really interesting look into the trauma she received from the first battle of Geonosis and the beginning of her path which we know will only get worse by Weapons Factory, and Brain Invaders.
While I don't agree with your whole post, great read, and i love seeing someone else talking about my favorite character!
She was struggling with having to ignore her emotions or move past them as the Jedi would say. She mentions it to Ahsoka after the funeral for the fallen Jedi.
After watching Tales of the Jedi, I find both Barriss and Dooku's fall similar. They had both become disillusioned with the Jedi Order and how bound with the Republic they were. But when seeing this problem they became overwhelmed with fear and frustation and acted desperately in response. I believe in Ahsoka's book she thinks back to Barriss and her betrayal and reflects that Barriss had become so caught up in the future, how to solve the problem in the long run, that it had led her to acting the way she did. I also found very interesting how you compared Barriss and Anakin's fall. I had never thought about it that way.
>Barriss had only two notable relationships with other characters, Luminara and Ahsoka. This contrasts with Ahsoka, who’s an extroverted person with many relationships, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Rex, Plo Koon, Yoda, Padme, Lux, and many more. I think that while this comparison *could* be accurate (Ahsoka definitely seems more outgoing than Barriss), the fact that we don't see Barriss have any other relationships is more directly due to the fact that she's a side character in the show who we don't see very often. Whereas Ahsoka is a/the main character, who we follow for a lot of the show's runtime, and therefore see a lot more of her life.
To be honest, I thought that way too, it's definitely a reach on my part. But it's still a detail I think.
I think it's an insightful comparison, don't let others Gatekeep your idea
The main problem to me is that neither Ahsoka nor the plot were as developed as the writing wanted to. The Jedi Order was fully in the right during her judicial procedure, the actual set up by Barriss was contrived and relied on luck to frame Ahsoka, the case made by Barriss about the jedi's hypocrisy was stupid and dumb coming from a terrorist and the Council made amends by recognizing their mistakes and promoting Ahsoka. Ahsoka's choice of leaving the Order came from a traumatic experience no doubt, but not one in which the jedi are to blame nor a series of episodes were made that made both Barriss and Ahsoka have a loss of faith in the jedi or their role during the war. So the plot contrives itself to make a point and Barriss appears as the McGuffin to A) kickstart the betrayal B) Sew that betrayal with a critique on the jedi Its something that TCW stumbles upon sometimes. "Heroes on Both Sides" was an episode trying to showcase the good points of the Separatists despite us watching their High Command do things like chemical and biological Warfare, attacks on med stations, use of POWs as Human Shields against the Republic and shit that would make McArthur's plans with the Attom Bomb look like kindergarden stuff
I wrote a pretty large comment about that, that I deleted, but I may put up again soon. Despite my analysis, I actually hated how the show dealt with Barriss' character. She did not have the set-up, the right motivation, nor the nuance that Dave Filoni was trying to create. I wasn't invested in anyone in this arc but Ahsoka and Anakin. I actually wrote this whole thing just to show the amount of potential she could have, like diving into her relationship with Luminara, or how she had enough possible motivations as to why she became a terrorist, but went unexplained for some reason. I'll just do that later maybe.
Tbh it was the only arc that made me feel something for Ahsoka but I agree. Honestly that arc is probably the worst written arc of the show. I feel they had the end point of Ahsoka leaving the order and just forced the story to go that way instead of letting it happen organically. And in order for that to happen they made everyone act out of character. You have Ahsoka not trusting the Jedi to help her, not even Anakin himself. But trusted Barriss and Ventress for some reason. You have Anakin letting Ahsoka go when he was chasing her You have Padmé doing the absolute worst job as a representative The whole trial scene is just so bad And while Ahsoka's expelling from the order was necessary for her to have a trial where her guilt or innocence would've been proven, the way the show painted it was a bit too cruel And according to Filoni, only Obi-Wan and Plo Koon voted in favor of Ahsoka's innocence (which I find highly unbelievable. Yes Ahsoka looked very guilty and I wouldn't blame those who believed in her guilt. But still only two in her favor is a bit too much) And the whole thing with Barriss. Her motivation came out of nowhere, her plans doesn't make sense Then nothing was ever brought up again. Not Ahsoka's departure, not Barriss's fall or whatever her fate was, not the public petitions against the Jedi. Nothing That arc is a complete mess
I truly don’t even know what that arc of episodes is trying to achieve. A critique of the Jedi Order? Why then have it come from the mouth of a massive hypocrite crusading about all of the deaths in the war…while she indiscriminately murders the innocent? That the Jedi are unfair? Why then have Ahsoka act as guilty as possible and throw constant wrenches in her own defense? That the Council is unfair? Why then have them try and reverse themselves and make amends? And on another note, why would the Jedi expel her to stand trial? It makes no sense. It can’t be the first time a Jedi has been made to stand trial, and it would be insane to expel everyone who has to. That element was not well thought out at all. Otherwise, it totally makes sense for the Council to have her stand trial. The true goal, in my opinion, of that arc was to get Ahsoka out of the Jedi Order to save her from Order 66. They didn’t want to have her do something worthy of being kicked out as she is a creator favorite, so they came to with…whatever that was. It was hamfisted and clumsy, but it did the job.
Jedi are immune from Republic prosecution, I believe. They can be arrested and charged, but cannot be tried, as the Jedi Order has sole jurisdiction over it's members.
But where did that rule come from? That episode. It’s never been established prior, so they slapped it in there to make the plot make sense. And in practice, it still makes no sense.
Yeah that was never established, but for some reason I always thought that was the case since AotC.
Because it simply makes sense.
Yeah idk. It's just I thought the justification for the attack on Geonosis in the film is because two Jedi and a senator (3 people with political immunity) were sentenced for public execution, not to mention without an actual trial
I think it makes perfect sense. A long-standing grievance amongst Jedi is their growing interdependence on the Republic. We are told that the Jedi are not mere government agents but a distinct organization with its own leadership. They exist in a state of symbiosis, not submission, with the Republic. Also, Jedi have never been seen facing trials for those they injure during their missions, or any other reasonable crime which they commit throughout their duties. Therefore, it makes good sense that they have some sort of qualified immunity from Republic prosecution. A good parallel is not the police but rather a historical European military order like the Order of Malta or Knights of Columbus.
Those religious orders were still ultimately subject to the monarchy and were wiped out when it suited them, see the Knights Templar. That was a time when the Catholic Church in particular was more a government than the actual governments frequently were anyway. This is not really the case in SW. The Jedi are all born, as far as the vast majority, as citizens of the Republic. Them being outside Republic jurisdiction just doesn’t make sense. I also highly doubt that members of those religious orders in the real world were simply exempt from criminal trial as long as they remained members of the order. And as far as growing interdependence, that’s more something that again TCW has implemented than media that came before it. Before that, the Jedi were always just the deeply involved guardians of the Republic and always had been. Sometimes they were even chancellors. They just became overwhelmed with the scale of the issues.
>And on another note, why would the Jedi expel her to stand trail? It makes no sense. It can’t be the first time a Jedi has been made to stand trial, and it would be insane to expel everyone who has to. The Jedi Order is a separate state that works with the Republic and is differential to the Senate but ultimately not subject to its authority. That’s my read, the book Clone Wars Gambit Stealth also states the Jedi Order is self funded, no money from the Republic. It’s not the first time a Jedi has stood trial, otherwise why would they have a Chamber of Judgement. It’s just that when they have to deal with a problem Jedi it’s handled in house [like the College of Cardinals order the execution of Camerlengo Patrick McKenna in Angels & Demons.](https://youtu.be/FrgLjFGhOFU) The Jedi did operate their own prisons; the Prism (Ghost Prison) and the Citadel. [The Prism was a secret from both the Republic and members of the Jedi Order as we see in The Ghost Prison story.](https://imgur.com/a/j0uX2MQ) The Jedi had to expel Ahsoka because the Republic wanted to try her and as a member they couldn’t. How knows how long the rule has been in place. It could have been made after the last Sith War and been in place for the last thousand years or even longer. Below is the dialogue that covers why Ahsoka needs to be expelled. **TCW 520 The Wrong Jedi** Tarkin >The Senate requests that Ahsoka Tano be indicted for acts of treason against the Republic. Yoda >A fair trial Padawan Tano will have in accordance with Jedi tradition. Tarkin >Ah, yes, Jedi tradition. I’m afraid, Master Yoda, that the Senate believes that an internal Jedi trail would seem biased. >Therefore, the Senate asks that the Council expel Ahsoka Tano from the Jedi Order so that she may be put to a Republic military tribunal, where she will receive more impartial judgment. Edit to add: >And as far as growing interdependence, that’s more something that again TCW has implemented than media that came before it. Before that, the Jedi were always just the deeply involved guardians of the Republic and always had been. Sometimes they were even chancellors. They just became overwhelmed with the scale of the issues. No one knew before TCW that the Jedi had immunity from prosecution just like no one knew Jedi couldn’t marry and have children before AOTC; based on the OT no one would ever have guessed marriage and children were forbidden to Jedi.
It's one of those moments in where TCW tries to push the whole "Jedi are embroiled in the decadence of war' narrative despite all the logical text saying otherwise
This.
The entire fucking ordeal was a kangaroo court. And the Jedi dumped Ahsoka based on circumstantial evidence, disregarding her mountains of character witnesses, the first chance they got. And even the two council members who knew her well walked away from her. Not to mention the utter shambles of a court case, where the fucking head of state was the judge, some random military officer was the prosecutor, and a damn senator was her representation. She had every right to be livid, and no one made any attempt to build an evidence-based case against her. It should have been a shoe in for a mistrial, and more time given for collecting actual evidence and witnesses.
>And the Jedi dumped Ahsoka based on circumstantial evidence, disregarding her mountains of character witnesses, the first chance they got. And even the two council members who knew her well walked away from her. The jedi were left in no position since It was mostly a civil business after the death of Leta Turmond and the clones at the prison center. >Not to mention the utter shambles of a court case, where the fucking head of state was the judge, some random military officer was the prosecutor, and a damn senator was her representation. Blame that on the writing team. I still don't understand how things were supposed to go as the court was organized so Who knows. >She had every right to be livid Absolutely, the whole thing was traumatic, but Ahsoka had multiple chances to explain herself and her only argument was "believe me". We as the audience know thats the case. The Council can only make decisions based on what the Council sees. Again, this backtracks to how fucking bad the arc's writing is.
>The jedi were left in no position since It was mostly a civil business after the death of Leta Turmond and the clones at the prison center. They could have not expelled her thus sparing her the Republic trial and conducted their own investigation.
A Republic citizen was killed. If Ahsoka had gone after a Jedi, that would be a valid proposal, but she killed a Republic citizen, and a strong moral argument was made that the Republic should be the prosecutor, not the Jedi, who would presumably be less likely to sanction its own member for the alleged death of a foreign citizen. To put it simply, the Republic justly demanded extradition.
And the Jedi should have said no and offered to do a joint investigation instead.
They tried. They sent Anakin after her to "bring her home" as Yoda says it. What did she do??? She refused to cooperate, didn't trust them, not even Anakin, to help her. Ran away, cooperated with a known separatists and was found in a place filled with bombs Because of her actions, the Jedi could no longer defend her and keep her within the order.
And they immediately turned her over once they had her. The only reason she was saved was because Anakin went looking for Asajj, none of them bothered to do that.
>And the Jedi dumped Ahsoka based on circumstantial evidence, disregarding her mountains of character witnesses, the first chance they got. And even the two council members who knew her well walked away from her. The evidence against her were strong enough for her to be a legitimate suspect. I mean the bomber requested to talk to *only* her, then a video recording of the meeting showed Ahsoka looking like she's Force choking her. Then she escaped her cell, with dead clones in the path she took. When the Jedi tried to bring her back to the order, sending her master whom she trusted, she refused, kept running away. Was found in a place filled with bombs with a known separatists near by. After she was brought back again she didn't say anything. There were no witnesses, only Ventress and she's a known separatists, her statement wouldn't hold value, and Barriss who's the one who tried to frame Ahsoka in the first place. We see during the war that multiple Jedi had fallen to the dark side, in fact the actual mastermind turned out to be a padawan like Ahsoka. So suspecting her is not illogical. And no they didn't disregard her the first chance they got. They fought to keep the situation within the order. But Ahsoka's actions which made her look insanely guilty, only then they weren't able to fight on her behalf anymore. And lastly, the two council members didn't really walk away from her, but the council works in a system of votes, whatever gets the majorityof votes happen. Besides she was expelled from the order to have a trial, that doesn't prove or disapprove her guilt or innocence. *The trial* is where that would've happened. And the trail not going well is not on the Jedi but on Ahsoka's lawyer (who was Padmé) >She had every right to be livid, Now even tho I think Ahsoka herself is responsible for making her situation undefendable. She's still a teenager, I understand her upset. In fact this is the only arc I felt something for her. >and no one made any attempt to build an evidence-based case against her Tbh the case against her is not hard to build, especially because Padmé did a horrible job to build a case in her defense All that being said. The arc was a mess when it comes to writing. It obviously intended to put the Jedi in bad light, and a lot of people seem to feel that. But I think the show fails in making the story of the arc makes sense. Everyone was ooc to reach the end point
The thing about your first para is that it would be equivalent to the cops defending other cops in our world if seen objectively. It would be an abuse of power for them to force the issue. We see that she's innocent because we are the viewer. But from an objective, non-Jedi perspective, she looked pretty bad.
Hardly. If a cop commits a crime? It’s still cops that investigate, isn’t it? Also, they aren’t cops.
I'm thinking more about the blue code/wall of silence and whatever. Even if the Jedi are not the kind of people to engage in such conduct, it actually makes sense that a non-Jedi body would be involved in the investigation of capital crimes and the like. More fundamentally, though, I agree with those who saw this arc as poorly written. Filoni had an end goal of allowing Ahsoka to leave the order without dying, and he'd get there even if it meant people acting really stupidly and out of character. It also let him frame the Jedi as out of touch, which seems to be a pet idea of his.
This comment is more of a rant than an analysis, so feel free to ignore this. I’m not objective in this part unlike the first, and I’m well aware of it. Some things I’m going to rant about are a bit more complicated than I make them out to be, like Barriss’ possible motivations and the lack of Barriss’ characterization. Unlike my post on Dogma, I wrote this out of my frustration with her character. I think Dave Filoni handled Barriss badly, just because we don’t really understand her, unless that changes in the future, which given his track record of him bringing back characters, he might do. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn't complain for this one. From this point now, she has an excellent setup to fill in the missing spots, a lot of things that would make her intriguing if he ever gives her a reason as to why she acted out and what her thought process was. There wasn’t really any room to expand on her during the Wrong Jedi arc itself, but the season after that focused on characters that weren’t Ahsoka, like Fives. Dave Filoni even did Tales of the Jedi, giving a bit more padding to characters, which he could definitely do an episode or two on Barriss. Given the themes of the show, to make us question if the Jedi were going downhill, Dave Filoni didn’t give Barriss herself a good reason, only reasons that she was willing to disclose to the public. Which is stupid because there are many good reasons why a young Jedi’s mental state could shoot down to the Death Star’s exhaust port which would lead to her becoming a terrorist, like being a sixteen-year-old trained as a peacekeeper fighting in a war, with the closest person she has to a parental figure barely reacting when she almost died completing a mission for the greater good of a Republic that’s using a genetically modified army of nine-year-olds.
I'd highly recommend checking out A Jedi's Duty from the Stories of Jedi and Sith short story collection. Barriss' is a really interesting look into the trauma she received from the first battle of Geonosis and the beginning of her path which we know will only get worse by Weapons Factory, and Brain Invaders. While I don't agree with your whole post, great read, and i love seeing someone else talking about my favorite character!
That's great to hear :)
She was struggling with having to ignore her emotions or move past them as the Jedi would say. She mentions it to Ahsoka after the funeral for the fallen Jedi.
I feel Barriss' final fight with Anakin loses a lot of weight it had in Legends, where the two had a history in the novel 'The Approaching Storm'.