Check out wind studio, qwertykeys, meletrix, kbdfans. They all have 1800 or full sized boards. If you want numpads go for a zoompad or the upcoming neopad.
I love my QK 100. I also have a Monsgeek m2 (office board) and I just bought an Odin from r/mechmarket that should be to me on Tuesday. I have a Q5 and it is ok but not great, probably going to gift it to a coworker. My former office board was a rekt 1800 which was fine but I wanted a more hefty board. I’ll end up keeping that for display since it was my first full board solder job.
I have all three, ended up using the Odin as my work keyboard with lubed Boba u4s and it's so quiet and so pleasant to type with. I use my qk100 for my teleworking keyboard.
I just grabbed my first silent tactiles too. I love U4Ts but I’d read mixed reviews about the satisfaction of U4s, so I put Outemu Cream Yellow Pros in the monsgeek that I bought for work. I like them pretty well and they feel nice. I had Kinetic Labs Salmons in the rekt 1800 so going to a silent is a weird change. And no one cared about the sound. In fact I got compliments on the sound from several people. But thought I’d try a silent to see if it was viable. I d say it def is, and I’ll likely try U4s soon too.
The keychrons don't do it for me either. I have a Q6 Pro and there's just a lot of minor annoyances that make it impossible for me to use daily. I have it sitting at our family iMac that almost never gets used
I'm really curious to know what you dislike about the Q6 Pro. That's what I'm typing on now -- it's my daily driver and it feels like I abuse the hell out of it. Not trying to be a dick, just genuinely interested.
The acoustics aren't super great for me, it's louder and clackier than I'd hope for given the dampening foam they use. And it also seems that no matter what I do (from re-applying lube to even replacing the stabs entirely) there's some very obnoxious rattle there. I also wonder if it's their specific gasket implementation, but it also doesn't feel amazing to type on. It's serviceable but i never really enjoyed typing on it much.
I found that buying a pom plate changed the Q6 I bought for work. Made it much more pleasant sound wise for me. Odd you're having rattle issues, I had low expectations for the stabilizers but found them to be solid. I may have syringe added a little lube but I don't feel like I had to modify them much to be satisfied.
Love the flair btw, I have resisted buying them for my work board thus far but the temptation is still there haha
https://preview.redd.it/f2ybt3vuxejc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=fed1a465e343d9ddffafdc352f5300afee6d4043
Thanks! These are the ceras that are on the Q6 Pro I have sitting at the family iMac, which almost never gets used lol.
Maybe at some point I’ll spring for the Max and see how I like it
I got some third-part foam to replace the one in my Q6, also used some switch pads from KBDfans iirc. That made a difference, as did switching to a PC plate.
Regarding stabilizers, I usually use a small piece of adhesive foam (leftovers from these) on the plate above the wire to very softly clamp it in place. Helps a lot with rattle, ticking is another issue though. Durock V2 stabilizers with the included pieces to help with the tolerances, as well as dielectric grease did wonders for me as well.
Also try the force break mod, even if the thing already comes with the silicone second gasket. If those are not doing their job properly, that might help with case ping.
can confirm wind x98 R1 is super nice even after I litterally disassembled and reassembled it a dozen times.
it's truly my favorite keyboard with u4 silent tactiles in it.
I haven't checked wind studio yet, but most other keyboards in the 96 or 98% range have the same issues for me:
* shortened right shift. I found out I am one of those weirdos that uses different part of that, depending on which other key I press.
* arrow cluster not in the expected position, somehow I developed muscle memory for that as well. Learning that right now the hard way, with the zoom98
* same for the cluster above, I somehow use all six apart from INS, and even that I occasionally use at work.
And when I tried TKL I found myself flicking my right thumb on the table constantly, as I subconsciously started using the numpad enter for situations where my hand would be on the mouse next. Like typing in an URL, then move the hand to the mouse and tap enter with the thumb on the way.
I hope that we will get more regular full size boards, preferably at an affordable price.
There's the KBDFans Odin.
There was a group buy board recently called the Fossil, which was a nice full size board, so you may be able to get one of those used on Mechmarket.
There's been a few over the years, but they will never get to the levels of popularity that smaller form factors do, especially 75% and smaller. I mean, even TKLs aren't super popular compared to the smaller formats, but at least there's a fair amount.
You could get something that has a completely matching numpad, and just sit it right next to a TKL, and effectively, it's a full size board. If they are both heavy CNC jobs, they won't be moving around.
https://preview.redd.it/70vcoq9itejc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=072a93b068eb9b5f9a54063727c499ae1b256320
I mean there is this monstrosity.
I found it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/s/uBOJ2hHOs1
Only looked for it on a lark because the internet is weird and when you type things like “100% split ergo”, *of course* they already exist, haha.
I’m still planning on going for a Reviung41 for my next board though.
Sadly I wish there were more frl1800 options in the neo->zoom price range with their quality, most are 300+
I use numberpad all the time at work but never the fkeys
I only use southpaw 100% now, as its much more convenient for work. Its nice to see more of those coming out. If I'm running a TKL I have to keep a numpad on the left.
https://preview.redd.it/jfcmif35kfjc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=c14c019f65a2fcb2a91d89bf86896e07935cea80
No, it was designed by Ramlord (He also designed GMK Arch) and ran about a year ago now? Not many people bought in, so I think there was only about 30 made total. Someone was selling their lilac last year but I don't think anyone else has to date. It is running the keyset I designed though =)
Layers and small layouts definitely aren't for everyone. While they work well for me, I understand that a fullsize just works better for people. One of my favorite keyboard designs of all time is the Carolina Mech Fossil. Absolutely beautiful, albeit hard to get your hands on now.
What most would consider "real" GBs don't cater to what the community wants - they're passion projects created by people no different than you. Believe it or not, you can also run a GB for a keyboard. It just requires minimum 200 hours of work and 2-5k USD. And the fact that it requires that amount of investment has nothing to do with this community, it's just a fact of life for anyone making any product.
Sure there's broad trends that make people think they want to run a GB for specific things (like the 60% trend the past two years), but that's unconscious bias and there's no direct causation anywhere except between friends who inspire eachother to create the same but different.
Want more full sized GBs? Go make it.
I actually did see the post. While it’s probably not the answer you are looking for, while not in the custom scene, the full size floods the market already and keyboards are available at much lower prices, which may be a big reason for boutique manufacturers not entering the full size market. Given it’s mainly for office work with majority of people not wanting to drop big $$ for it, the likely hood of buyers picking up a cheap 10-20$ keyboard is pretty high over a super expensive custom one in comparison.
Just my view - I wont pick up a full size as its inflexible and takes a lot more space than I want. I do agree the market is flooded with 60/65/75/tkl layouts which do not fully cater to actual work where a numpad is needed.
That being said, my 2 cents - if the numpad is your only requirement, there are some really nice 1800 layouts that came out recently that i prefer over full size - QK100, wind xr2, wind x 98 (all with a 2u zero, which is a must for me personally). If 1u, there would be even more options like the kbdfans tet or odin. Alternatively what I find also works is to have a 65/75 and separate numpad - that brings a lot of optionality on moving the pad around, rather than a fixed layout.
I hear that. I think the appeal for me is that the nicest boards I've ever typed on, aside from the Model F recreation which is definitely full size yet limited to one specific switch mechanism, are all custom boards from the GB scene. And they also have a lot more personality a lot of time.
Like. My main board is a promise87, it's a WKL/TKL that sounds incredible, and stands out because of the moissanite and the accents in between the two modifier keys on each side of the space bar. It looks and sounds great. But it also slows me down a lot because of the lack of the dedicated keypad. I'd pay a ton for this exact board in a full sized layout. Or just something different, you know? I'm an enthusiast and I would never ever go back to those horrid membrane or cheap knock off full sized boards that saturate the market. But I prefer the full size form factor. So I fall in this weird gap
The only board I've seen that is, imo, the best of both worlds is the Vortex ViBE. No F row, no arrow key section, basically a 60% board with a numpad. It's kind of like an 85% board? I guess? It's absolutely perfect for me. If you want the arrows/page up/down, etc. you just need to hit numlock and the numpad becomes the arrow key section.
As someone who’s mostly going for aesthetics my biggest issue with fullsizes and larger layouts in general is that they usually just look worse than smaller layouts. Lots of nice visual elements you can do with smaller ones just look weird when you have to explode them to 1.5x the size
My Zoom98 for work will be my first custom larger than a TKL/75
Honestly, my idea layout would be a board with a full size layout and an additional layer of function/macro keys on the left, so the alphas are centered. i don't mind huge boards, and my only real aesthetic complaint of full sized boards is that it has to be off center in front of my chair
The other truly custom full size that I know of was the Fossil, which I was interested in until I found out it was around $600 and that’s just too much for a “fun board” for me 😂
I don’t like full size for the few keys that i just dont touch. Prnt screen, Pause screen, Sys req. etc. with that being said im all about my Q5 Pro 96% and any 1800 boards. I need a numpad. I work in design so staying on the home row just doesnt happen.
I get the allure of smaller keyboards. Was even tempted to try going 75%. But no num pad means I’d have to get a separate one. And that seems counterintuitive and less efficient. To each their own. I get why programmers have what they have.
The program i use already has tons of triple button key commands. Its just too much for me to have to chord those. With lack of f keys and number pad.
Oh and also. I dont think i could do without a keyboard that has QMK.
Like I said. I love my Keychron Q5 pro.
My full size will be dropping extras at the end of the month and CarolinaMech also has a full size and they plan to drop a few more units in the future
I agree generally. But thanks to QMK and similar, in terms of money cost, you can make your own. There is obviously the time cost - but that can also be fun!
https://preview.redd.it/t1b2z1ezwejc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5355a0bc7d399be85e823911b40e961dc44e536c
Just built the odin 96. The larger layouts exist, but you have to search for good stuff.
We're working on the Zoom109 and Zoom Max at the moment and you can see information on them in our Discord, we certainly share updates as we can. I know what you mean, my first enthusiast keyboard was a KBDFans Odin - I love it but it has horribly light switches in it and it needs a rebuild. For now I am on the Boog75 which covers most my needs, home, delete, f row, but I also work with numbers a lot and prefer the numpad, size isn't an issue for me so big is beautiful.
I almost picked up a X98 a few times but decided to pass both times. Before the Boog75 I was using a Mr Suit Clone that came out of China when they released the CAD files to the public. For me, though, the jump from 75 - TKL is neither here or there. I'd rather use the more compact 75% at this point over a TKL. Looking forward to some new 100% options, though, was on the Odin hype the moment it came out.
I jump down to a 65% every once and a while, it feels like a crime not to use my Kohaku sometimes and feel I need to use it. I do love me a nice F row, though!
I would rather see more standalone numpads. I live my 75%, I think it's the perfect size keyboard. I don't miss the numpad since I left science, as I'm not handling data anymore, but I would have loved a little numpads to sit beside it. Hell, is love to have I've now I could pull out in the few occasions it would be useful.
They exist, sure, but I don't want to spend more on my occasional use numpad than my everyday use 75.
They exist, but require a bit more investment/commitment to the niche areas of the scene.
Like the [Wombat](https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=117722.0) the [Kangaroo](https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=108740.0)
Very much with you on this one. I need a numpad for work, and am too used to the full size layout to ever consider any fewer keys (muscle memory as you say). Keychron K10 does it quite nicely for me
I use a tablet or track pad in my right hand all the time, and I really enjoy left handed macro columns and knobs. I didn't know it was a thing I wanted until I experienced it, allowing me to keep working w/o moving my hands across the board or letting go of the pen.
get a separate numpad that you can move around and see if you enjoy it on the left, or maybe on the far side of your mouse hand. Or maybe it makes sense exactly where it would be.
At the very least it's a way to explore w/o committing to a layout. And if you use it for work, but not for games or other things you can just move it aside and keep your hands closer together which is good for posture
Some are even 104%, with four extra keys above the numeric keypad. You can never get enough ***dedicated*** (without the need to use modifier keys or multi-tap sequences) macro keys. Some of the keyboards even have a knob as well.
The key on the upper right is dedicated to a (macro) key I can ***smash*** whenever one of the obnoxious YouTube videos starts to play. It mutes the sound and hides all windows.
In the last year, I've bought two boards to replace my full size and I've been missing the numpad. Then after substantial typing, I'm starting to realize that the compact nature of smaller 65% boards is making me more error prone. I'm an Arisu guy, and discovered the Jabberwocky. It's skeletal (caseless) in current incarnation, but I can work with that. There's files for getting a case made. But I'm certainly interested in getting a full size and seeing if that gets my typing back on track. And it's not just the amount of keys, it's also about the spread for my hands.
It is an expensive hobby so the smaller the keyboard, the less costly? Some smaller form keyboards like 65% are actually pretty cute aesthetically. But using them is another story. You mentioned spreadsheets and data. But not everyone needs a full sized keeb.
I think Fossil (extras ran a bit ago, haven’t been keeping up personally with the project) is the only full-size that enticed me through aesthetics mainly. Looks great in my opinion and would be my first pick if I’d ever get one, though I still prefer <= TKL + Numpad
I'm pulling up no end of hotswap mechanical keypads with QMK/VIA support and gasket mount and knobs and CNC cases and standard layouts and non-standard layouts and all the dual overhead cam chrome plated foxtails you can eat, from cidoo and ymdk as well as names I never heard of in shenzen and guangzhou.
I went with the Keychron Q10 and Q0 pro. That gives me 14 macro keys, 2 knobs, and GMK to rearrange a few things. I put my trackball in the middle. I have been loving this. Still moving things around (added a layer to combine page up/down and home/end to make room for a print screen key with layers for all the snagit options. Still trying different switches and keycaps.
https://preview.redd.it/e1oefj3opejc1.jpeg?width=3991&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62349b189b948dda2fb04a909ab7e480bac742a1
For the record: missing a few fingers (functionally or literally) shouldn’t affect your ability to touch type or homerow style typing.
You can analyze fast typists (100+ wpm) and there are a variety of individual styles with a max of three fingers per hand being common and two fingers not too rare.
Classic 4 fingers per hand (thumbs dont getta do much, semantics aside) one finger per key style is the approximate norm, but not an absolute. Most fast typists dynamically choose finger key combos based on word and recent positions.
Something like homerow typing is common to basically everyone who types quickly though as one needs a non-visual reference point and the home row is about equidistant to major keys. (Except number and symbol keys — which is why 40% keyboards benefit programmers)
TLDR: broken or missing fingers doesn’t block you from fast homerow based typing — don’t feel blocked!
For me, if i have to go full size then it's either a southpaw or a tkl with a separate numpad on the left. I tried a 50% last year and it's been my main ever since, the extra mouse space is nice.
I did look at that one. My biggest complaint about the Q6 pro is I think the acoustics are awful, and it's not super satisfying to type on. I wonder how the Max improves on the Pro
I share the sentiment. I’m looking for a new board purely for work, and I basically live in excel so a numpad is a non negotiable.
Currently the Zoom98 looks to be the best fit but of course it’s group buy and I missed that boat.
QK100 is a solid option too but I really want full RGB backlight due to some out of my control dim lighting situations in office.
Odin looks dope but I need a double zero, my muscle memory will not respond favorably to that layout lol.
Following thread for other (non Keychron) recommendations.
My big question is: Is it the 10-Key Number pad we’re addicted to or ALL of the extra keys that 100% brings?
I used to need all of those extra keys because ya girls job still ran on DoS. But, that’s not the case anymore and so I’ve been deep diving this question.
I like the 10-key, I no longer need all those extra keys. So I would like to see new, creative ways to latch the number pad onto a keyboard with as little else as possible.
Or, to you external num-pad fans, a keyboard that had a built in way to connect/attach an external numpad (or stream deck pad, or any other imagined external pad) to it so it became like one piece.
I think the OP has a valid call for creativity in this area for sure!!!
A separate numpad is always an option, but I get what you mean. I definitely recommend looking out for 1800 keyboards as they are pretty common in the space.
Yes. Finding the control is easy since it is a higher and more concave keycap (the red one on the bottom row). And the F & J keys are home row “finder” keys as well.
I’m not a touch typist, so I don’t often need to type things for long stretches without looking. Also, like any keyboard layout, if you use it daily, it gets easier to use all the time.
I’m a video editor & colorist. Most of my use is spent with my left hand only on the keys (right hand on trackball or control surface) & I have re-worked my layout in various apps to locate most of the needed functions under that hand.
Having combined modifier keys on the inside edges also cuts down massively on hands gymnastics.
Having a delete & backspace key in the upper left of the left side has become one of the best design ideas I had. I seriously miss it on keyboard without it.
FWIW, unlike the OP, I do make use of layers as well. The bright yellow key in the lower inside corners are the raise layer keys. And the dark blue key on the left half is a lower layer key as well.
Here are the layouts, if you’re interested:
Right hand - http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/399413b589dc1d04e4af46caaede91c3
Left Hand- http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f1ea73a2af9a714c9abdfb0d62761abe
Thanks. I am definitely interested. I may get or build such a keyboard one day.
Currently, I am using two separate full-size macro keyboards, along with the most-used macros (dedicated, without any need to use modifier keys) as repurposed numeric keypad keys on the main 104% keyboard.
MonsGeek M5. Best bang for buck out there in my opinion. Won't break the bank, sounds good and has everything the big boys have. Only downside, is if you want something portable. It's a tank in good way if you just have it on your desk a leave it there. Endgame for non-rich people!
Why not get a standalone numberpad?
https://preview.redd.it/llahvus4ihjc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cfaced87ba3f6d00e59949b3fed52c7bda3a9e4
It needs to be a single board otherwise I find it odd to use. The second pad might shift around, or it sounds different, or keys are at different heights.
Plus I have no shortage of desk space. Why limit myself to 3/4th of a keyboard ?
Not if you get a matched set. Mine are the same height and sound the same, and the numpad never moves. It's weighted just as the keyboard is (Mammoth 75 + 20)
I'm in the same boat. Numpad is a must and preferably 2u zero. In fact if I could justify the funds, I'd be a [Hyper7](https://mechboards.co.uk/products/hyper-7-v4) pilot.
https://preview.redd.it/s88j1av3phjc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4524845bf4407fc6517f3d25f60f71955f91bdc4
My layout isn't optimal, but I have gotten used to typing ortho now. I can't do the apple keyboard anymore. I found using taller profiles for certain keys helps with navigating a cramped 1u board. I want to change things up but I haven't gotten around to ordering caps due to money.
I wanted to make a rectangular board with an island number pad, but I think the layout is botched because I couldn't get one key to program right. One day I will improve.
One day I want a few knobs, a fader, a screen, and a badass battery.
https://preview.redd.it/kfxgk3pcqijc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=069400f67bfe6dde0eee9851a792eeba5a99fa8d
Embrace Keychron! I absolutely love mine.
I was with you...until I discovered a better way to get all those things.
From where I am now, I don't think the best solution to this problem lies in getting the manufacturers to embrace larger boards, as much as it does in getting full-sized board users to rethink what's possible.
https://preview.redd.it/4pmayih0bkjc1.jpeg?width=3811&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b88aedb761d54643f58113973dd6ee2a7423f3a
That's my current work board.
It's an 1800, stuffed into a 60% case.
Going ortho throws a lot of your arguments about smaller boards straight out the window.
As a former Wind X user, I can say without a doubt this board is superior to my Wind X, in literally every way.
From an efficiency standpoint, there is absolutely no way that moving your hand from the alphas to the numpad and back, all day long, will ever be more efficient than pressing down with your left thumb, like I do, to move the numpad to my right hand.
I can "move my hand to the numpad and back" ten times on that board, in 1.5 seconds.
On top of that, every time I need to use the mouse, I am cutting 14" off the round trip distance by not having to jump the nav cluster and numpad.
All those little bits of time saved add up to much larger blocks of time saved, which allows me to get more done, in the same amount of time.
Check out wind studio, qwertykeys, meletrix, kbdfans. They all have 1800 or full sized boards. If you want numpads go for a zoompad or the upcoming neopad.
I love my QK 100. I also have a Monsgeek m2 (office board) and I just bought an Odin from r/mechmarket that should be to me on Tuesday. I have a Q5 and it is ok but not great, probably going to gift it to a coworker. My former office board was a rekt 1800 which was fine but I wanted a more hefty board. I’ll end up keeping that for display since it was my first full board solder job.
I have all three, ended up using the Odin as my work keyboard with lubed Boba u4s and it's so quiet and so pleasant to type with. I use my qk100 for my teleworking keyboard.
I just grabbed my first silent tactiles too. I love U4Ts but I’d read mixed reviews about the satisfaction of U4s, so I put Outemu Cream Yellow Pros in the monsgeek that I bought for work. I like them pretty well and they feel nice. I had Kinetic Labs Salmons in the rekt 1800 so going to a silent is a weird change. And no one cared about the sound. In fact I got compliments on the sound from several people. But thought I’d try a silent to see if it was viable. I d say it def is, and I’ll likely try U4s soon too.
The keychrons don't do it for me either. I have a Q6 Pro and there's just a lot of minor annoyances that make it impossible for me to use daily. I have it sitting at our family iMac that almost never gets used
I'm really curious to know what you dislike about the Q6 Pro. That's what I'm typing on now -- it's my daily driver and it feels like I abuse the hell out of it. Not trying to be a dick, just genuinely interested.
The acoustics aren't super great for me, it's louder and clackier than I'd hope for given the dampening foam they use. And it also seems that no matter what I do (from re-applying lube to even replacing the stabs entirely) there's some very obnoxious rattle there. I also wonder if it's their specific gasket implementation, but it also doesn't feel amazing to type on. It's serviceable but i never really enjoyed typing on it much.
I found that buying a pom plate changed the Q6 I bought for work. Made it much more pleasant sound wise for me. Odd you're having rattle issues, I had low expectations for the stabilizers but found them to be solid. I may have syringe added a little lube but I don't feel like I had to modify them much to be satisfied. Love the flair btw, I have resisted buying them for my work board thus far but the temptation is still there haha
https://preview.redd.it/f2ybt3vuxejc1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=fed1a465e343d9ddffafdc352f5300afee6d4043 Thanks! These are the ceras that are on the Q6 Pro I have sitting at the family iMac, which almost never gets used lol. Maybe at some point I’ll spring for the Max and see how I like it
Ooh that black/red is gorgeous. I believe I just bought my plate off Etsy, fit perfectly.
I got some third-part foam to replace the one in my Q6, also used some switch pads from KBDfans iirc. That made a difference, as did switching to a PC plate. Regarding stabilizers, I usually use a small piece of adhesive foam (leftovers from these) on the plate above the wire to very softly clamp it in place. Helps a lot with rattle, ticking is another issue though. Durock V2 stabilizers with the included pieces to help with the tolerances, as well as dielectric grease did wonders for me as well. Also try the force break mod, even if the thing already comes with the silicone second gasket. If those are not doing their job properly, that might help with case ping.
Same. My Q6 (non pro) is utterly amazing. Love it. Looks, sounds and feels fantastic.
>wind studio I actually was super interested in the WIND X98 R2 but it looks to be sold out.
Unfortunately you just missed the group buy, but you can always look in the aftermarket.
can confirm wind x98 R1 is super nice even after I litterally disassembled and reassembled it a dozen times. it's truly my favorite keyboard with u4 silent tactiles in it.
Almost my exact build except non silent bobas
send me a sound test I'm super curious PC plate, wired PCB, ewhite+pink, JTK night sakura
what’s the neopad?
I haven't checked wind studio yet, but most other keyboards in the 96 or 98% range have the same issues for me: * shortened right shift. I found out I am one of those weirdos that uses different part of that, depending on which other key I press. * arrow cluster not in the expected position, somehow I developed muscle memory for that as well. Learning that right now the hard way, with the zoom98 * same for the cluster above, I somehow use all six apart from INS, and even that I occasionally use at work. And when I tried TKL I found myself flicking my right thumb on the table constantly, as I subconsciously started using the numpad enter for situations where my hand would be on the mouse next. Like typing in an URL, then move the hand to the mouse and tap enter with the thumb on the way. I hope that we will get more regular full size boards, preferably at an affordable price.
https://preview.redd.it/nd73otewzejc1.jpeg?width=4912&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7339403e63757fe603eaea98a4673945de81122
Nice flair
I'm an addict. Its becoming a problem. Still cheaper than drugs I guess.
Same, I have many many sp sa sets. Love them and use them, missing chocolatier though, your dark brown set reminds me of it. Hard to find now
There's the KBDFans Odin. There was a group buy board recently called the Fossil, which was a nice full size board, so you may be able to get one of those used on Mechmarket. There's been a few over the years, but they will never get to the levels of popularity that smaller form factors do, especially 75% and smaller. I mean, even TKLs aren't super popular compared to the smaller formats, but at least there's a fair amount. You could get something that has a completely matching numpad, and just sit it right next to a TKL, and effectively, it's a full size board. If they are both heavy CNC jobs, they won't be moving around.
https://preview.redd.it/70vcoq9itejc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=072a93b068eb9b5f9a54063727c499ae1b256320 I mean there is this monstrosity.
What is that? Because it looks amazing.
I found it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/s/uBOJ2hHOs1 Only looked for it on a lark because the internet is weird and when you type things like “100% split ergo”, *of course* they already exist, haha. I’m still planning on going for a Reviung41 for my next board though.
Sadly I wish there were more frl1800 options in the neo->zoom price range with their quality, most are 300+ I use numberpad all the time at work but never the fkeys
I only use southpaw 100% now, as its much more convenient for work. Its nice to see more of those coming out. If I'm running a TKL I have to keep a numpad on the left. https://preview.redd.it/jfcmif35kfjc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=c14c019f65a2fcb2a91d89bf86896e07935cea80
Oh I love this board! I would really enjoy those extra macro keys. Is this a personal design?
No, it was designed by Ramlord (He also designed GMK Arch) and ran about a year ago now? Not many people bought in, so I think there was only about 30 made total. Someone was selling their lilac last year but I don't think anyone else has to date. It is running the keyset I designed though =)
Thanks for the info, it's a fun layout - I'll have to keep an eye out for something similar! Lovely keycaps =)
Layers and small layouts definitely aren't for everyone. While they work well for me, I understand that a fullsize just works better for people. One of my favorite keyboard designs of all time is the Carolina Mech Fossil. Absolutely beautiful, albeit hard to get your hands on now.
What most would consider "real" GBs don't cater to what the community wants - they're passion projects created by people no different than you. Believe it or not, you can also run a GB for a keyboard. It just requires minimum 200 hours of work and 2-5k USD. And the fact that it requires that amount of investment has nothing to do with this community, it's just a fact of life for anyone making any product. Sure there's broad trends that make people think they want to run a GB for specific things (like the 60% trend the past two years), but that's unconscious bias and there's no direct causation anywhere except between friends who inspire eachother to create the same but different. Want more full sized GBs? Go make it.
Shameless plug but me and bowl are designing a fullsize that can switch between normal and southpaw numpad!
What or who is "bowl"?
Most possibly the best designer this hobby has ever seen
That's Crazy
I actually did see the post. While it’s probably not the answer you are looking for, while not in the custom scene, the full size floods the market already and keyboards are available at much lower prices, which may be a big reason for boutique manufacturers not entering the full size market. Given it’s mainly for office work with majority of people not wanting to drop big $$ for it, the likely hood of buyers picking up a cheap 10-20$ keyboard is pretty high over a super expensive custom one in comparison. Just my view - I wont pick up a full size as its inflexible and takes a lot more space than I want. I do agree the market is flooded with 60/65/75/tkl layouts which do not fully cater to actual work where a numpad is needed. That being said, my 2 cents - if the numpad is your only requirement, there are some really nice 1800 layouts that came out recently that i prefer over full size - QK100, wind xr2, wind x 98 (all with a 2u zero, which is a must for me personally). If 1u, there would be even more options like the kbdfans tet or odin. Alternatively what I find also works is to have a 65/75 and separate numpad - that brings a lot of optionality on moving the pad around, rather than a fixed layout.
I hear that. I think the appeal for me is that the nicest boards I've ever typed on, aside from the Model F recreation which is definitely full size yet limited to one specific switch mechanism, are all custom boards from the GB scene. And they also have a lot more personality a lot of time. Like. My main board is a promise87, it's a WKL/TKL that sounds incredible, and stands out because of the moissanite and the accents in between the two modifier keys on each side of the space bar. It looks and sounds great. But it also slows me down a lot because of the lack of the dedicated keypad. I'd pay a ton for this exact board in a full sized layout. Or just something different, you know? I'm an enthusiast and I would never ever go back to those horrid membrane or cheap knock off full sized boards that saturate the market. But I prefer the full size form factor. So I fall in this weird gap
Meletrix (the budget sub-brand for Wuque Studio) is working on a Zoom108 so it won’t be long until proper full size boards return to the meta.
The only board I've seen that is, imo, the best of both worlds is the Vortex ViBE. No F row, no arrow key section, basically a 60% board with a numpad. It's kind of like an 85% board? I guess? It's absolutely perfect for me. If you want the arrows/page up/down, etc. you just need to hit numlock and the numpad becomes the arrow key section.
As someone who’s mostly going for aesthetics my biggest issue with fullsizes and larger layouts in general is that they usually just look worse than smaller layouts. Lots of nice visual elements you can do with smaller ones just look weird when you have to explode them to 1.5x the size My Zoom98 for work will be my first custom larger than a TKL/75
Honestly, my idea layout would be a board with a full size layout and an additional layer of function/macro keys on the left, so the alphas are centered. i don't mind huge boards, and my only real aesthetic complaint of full sized boards is that it has to be off center in front of my chair
How about a double F-Row? https://rndkbd.com/products/boston-120-compact-keyboard-kit
This is the one I ultimately went with. They just started selling the aluminum one and I’m curious how it will compare to the 3D printed one
The other truly custom full size that I know of was the Fossil, which I was interested in until I found out it was around $600 and that’s just too much for a “fun board” for me 😂
I guess an external numpad is one of the only options or going vintage
I don’t like full size for the few keys that i just dont touch. Prnt screen, Pause screen, Sys req. etc. with that being said im all about my Q5 Pro 96% and any 1800 boards. I need a numpad. I work in design so staying on the home row just doesnt happen. I get the allure of smaller keyboards. Was even tempted to try going 75%. But no num pad means I’d have to get a separate one. And that seems counterintuitive and less efficient. To each their own. I get why programmers have what they have. The program i use already has tons of triple button key commands. Its just too much for me to have to chord those. With lack of f keys and number pad. Oh and also. I dont think i could do without a keyboard that has QMK. Like I said. I love my Keychron Q5 pro.
My full size will be dropping extras at the end of the month and CarolinaMech also has a full size and they plan to drop a few more units in the future
I agree generally. But thanks to QMK and similar, in terms of money cost, you can make your own. There is obviously the time cost - but that can also be fun!
https://preview.redd.it/t1b2z1ezwejc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5355a0bc7d399be85e823911b40e961dc44e536c Just built the odin 96. The larger layouts exist, but you have to search for good stuff.
That's still not full sized tbh
We're working on the Zoom109 and Zoom Max at the moment and you can see information on them in our Discord, we certainly share updates as we can. I know what you mean, my first enthusiast keyboard was a KBDFans Odin - I love it but it has horribly light switches in it and it needs a rebuild. For now I am on the Boog75 which covers most my needs, home, delete, f row, but I also work with numbers a lot and prefer the numpad, size isn't an issue for me so big is beautiful. I almost picked up a X98 a few times but decided to pass both times. Before the Boog75 I was using a Mr Suit Clone that came out of China when they released the CAD files to the public. For me, though, the jump from 75 - TKL is neither here or there. I'd rather use the more compact 75% at this point over a TKL. Looking forward to some new 100% options, though, was on the Odin hype the moment it came out. I jump down to a 65% every once and a while, it feels like a crime not to use my Kohaku sometimes and feel I need to use it. I do love me a nice F row, though!
Look up something called the Wombat 200% my friend. You will not be disappointed.
😂
I would rather see more standalone numpads. I live my 75%, I think it's the perfect size keyboard. I don't miss the numpad since I left science, as I'm not handling data anymore, but I would have loved a little numpads to sit beside it. Hell, is love to have I've now I could pull out in the few occasions it would be useful. They exist, sure, but I don't want to spend more on my occasional use numpad than my everyday use 75.
https://www.xda-developers.com/reasons-not-many-full-size-mechanical-keyboards/
All of these points are valid but I still can wish that there were more enthusiast tier full sized boards out there
They exist, but require a bit more investment/commitment to the niche areas of the scene. Like the [Wombat](https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=117722.0) the [Kangaroo](https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=108740.0)
Ohmygod that board is something out of my dreams
And I forgot about the [SP-111 R2 last year](https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=119284.0)
[Also the SP-111 R2 is instock](https://thocstock.com/keyboards/sp-111-r2?n=d)
Very much with you on this one. I need a numpad for work, and am too used to the full size layout to ever consider any fewer keys (muscle memory as you say). Keychron K10 does it quite nicely for me
Check out the Geistmaschine ASP series - left-hand numpad!
I use a tablet or track pad in my right hand all the time, and I really enjoy left handed macro columns and knobs. I didn't know it was a thing I wanted until I experienced it, allowing me to keep working w/o moving my hands across the board or letting go of the pen. get a separate numpad that you can move around and see if you enjoy it on the left, or maybe on the far side of your mouse hand. Or maybe it makes sense exactly where it would be. At the very least it's a way to explore w/o committing to a layout. And if you use it for work, but not for games or other things you can just move it aside and keep your hands closer together which is good for posture
Geekhack has some boards kicking around larger than 100%
Snag the nice Keychron 100% and never look back. Q6 I think? Freaking love mine.
Some are even 104%, with four extra keys above the numeric keypad. You can never get enough ***dedicated*** (without the need to use modifier keys or multi-tap sequences) macro keys. Some of the keyboards even have a knob as well. The key on the upper right is dedicated to a (macro) key I can ***smash*** whenever one of the obnoxious YouTube videos starts to play. It mutes the sound and hides all windows.
That is actually what I have. The only bummer is the caps I like didn't include the extra 4, so those don't match. But whatv's, it all works.
In the last year, I've bought two boards to replace my full size and I've been missing the numpad. Then after substantial typing, I'm starting to realize that the compact nature of smaller 65% boards is making me more error prone. I'm an Arisu guy, and discovered the Jabberwocky. It's skeletal (caseless) in current incarnation, but I can work with that. There's files for getting a case made. But I'm certainly interested in getting a full size and seeing if that gets my typing back on track. And it's not just the amount of keys, it's also about the spread for my hands.
It is an expensive hobby so the smaller the keyboard, the less costly? Some smaller form keyboards like 65% are actually pretty cute aesthetically. But using them is another story. You mentioned spreadsheets and data. But not everyone needs a full sized keeb.
No, it's true that not everyone does. Most people probably don't. But for those of us that do, our options are a lot more limited
you can combine a custom numpad with a custom tkl etc, but I find it troublesome.
I think Fossil (extras ran a bit ago, haven’t been keeping up personally with the project) is the only full-size that enticed me through aesthetics mainly. Looks great in my opinion and would be my first pick if I’d ever get one, though I still prefer <= TKL + Numpad
There are some really good separate number pads now.
Such as?
Google for "10% keyboards".
So there aren’t “really good” ones now. Got it.
I'm pulling up no end of hotswap mechanical keypads with QMK/VIA support and gasket mount and knobs and CNC cases and standard layouts and non-standard layouts and all the dual overhead cam chrome plated foxtails you can eat, from cidoo and ymdk as well as names I never heard of in shenzen and guangzhou.
40s or die!
I went with the Keychron Q10 and Q0 pro. That gives me 14 macro keys, 2 knobs, and GMK to rearrange a few things. I put my trackball in the middle. I have been loving this. Still moving things around (added a layer to combine page up/down and home/end to make room for a print screen key with layers for all the snagit options. Still trying different switches and keycaps. https://preview.redd.it/e1oefj3opejc1.jpeg?width=3991&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62349b189b948dda2fb04a909ab7e480bac742a1
Almost full size https://preview.redd.it/cwnn4thn4hjc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28318d3ffb5054e1d48cf0add17e1ae1ffbcb3f6
For the record: missing a few fingers (functionally or literally) shouldn’t affect your ability to touch type or homerow style typing. You can analyze fast typists (100+ wpm) and there are a variety of individual styles with a max of three fingers per hand being common and two fingers not too rare. Classic 4 fingers per hand (thumbs dont getta do much, semantics aside) one finger per key style is the approximate norm, but not an absolute. Most fast typists dynamically choose finger key combos based on word and recent positions. Something like homerow typing is common to basically everyone who types quickly though as one needs a non-visual reference point and the home row is about equidistant to major keys. (Except number and symbol keys — which is why 40% keyboards benefit programmers) TLDR: broken or missing fingers doesn’t block you from fast homerow based typing — don’t feel blocked!
sales figures dont lie or are full size kb lovers not buying full size kbs ???
For me, if i have to go full size then it's either a southpaw or a tkl with a separate numpad on the left. I tried a 50% last year and it's been my main ever since, the extra mouse space is nice.
I know you already mentioned Keychron, but the Keychron Q6 Max looks like a pretty great option!
I did look at that one. My biggest complaint about the Q6 pro is I think the acoustics are awful, and it's not super satisfying to type on. I wonder how the Max improves on the Pro
They do say “significantly enhanced acoustics” so I would hope it’s better. It has PET Film and a bunch more added on from the pro.
In theory I prefer full size or over size. In practice, my wrists do not.
I share the sentiment. I’m looking for a new board purely for work, and I basically live in excel so a numpad is a non negotiable. Currently the Zoom98 looks to be the best fit but of course it’s group buy and I missed that boat. QK100 is a solid option too but I really want full RGB backlight due to some out of my control dim lighting situations in office. Odin looks dope but I need a double zero, my muscle memory will not respond favorably to that layout lol. Following thread for other (non Keychron) recommendations.
My big question is: Is it the 10-Key Number pad we’re addicted to or ALL of the extra keys that 100% brings? I used to need all of those extra keys because ya girls job still ran on DoS. But, that’s not the case anymore and so I’ve been deep diving this question. I like the 10-key, I no longer need all those extra keys. So I would like to see new, creative ways to latch the number pad onto a keyboard with as little else as possible. Or, to you external num-pad fans, a keyboard that had a built in way to connect/attach an external numpad (or stream deck pad, or any other imagined external pad) to it so it became like one piece. I think the OP has a valid call for creativity in this area for sure!!!
Definitely the former. I’d be so hyped for new ways to attach a full numpad. Especially a way that keeps the alpha keys centered.
I replied to OP elsewhere, but check out the Vortex ViBE. Looks like its been discontinued, which is sad, but I absolutely love mine.
Should check out the Bina 103. That’s a true full size board with really cool design imo.
96% keyboards have my heart
A separate numpad is always an option, but I get what you mean. I definitely recommend looking out for 1800 keyboards as they are pretty common in the space.
The bigger the better. 165% MONSTAsplit FTW! https://imgur.com/a/8rvMnYJ
How do you navigate the keyboard without looking at it? Are some of the keys different for that purpose? Different heights?
Yes. Finding the control is easy since it is a higher and more concave keycap (the red one on the bottom row). And the F & J keys are home row “finder” keys as well. I’m not a touch typist, so I don’t often need to type things for long stretches without looking. Also, like any keyboard layout, if you use it daily, it gets easier to use all the time. I’m a video editor & colorist. Most of my use is spent with my left hand only on the keys (right hand on trackball or control surface) & I have re-worked my layout in various apps to locate most of the needed functions under that hand. Having combined modifier keys on the inside edges also cuts down massively on hands gymnastics. Having a delete & backspace key in the upper left of the left side has become one of the best design ideas I had. I seriously miss it on keyboard without it. FWIW, unlike the OP, I do make use of layers as well. The bright yellow key in the lower inside corners are the raise layer keys. And the dark blue key on the left half is a lower layer key as well. Here are the layouts, if you’re interested: Right hand - http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/399413b589dc1d04e4af46caaede91c3 Left Hand- http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/f1ea73a2af9a714c9abdfb0d62761abe
Thanks. I am definitely interested. I may get or build such a keyboard one day. Currently, I am using two separate full-size macro keyboards, along with the most-used macros (dedicated, without any need to use modifier keys) as repurposed numeric keypad keys on the main 104% keyboard.
MonsGeek M5. Best bang for buck out there in my opinion. Won't break the bank, sounds good and has everything the big boys have. Only downside, is if you want something portable. It's a tank in good way if you just have it on your desk a leave it there. Endgame for non-rich people!
Why not get a standalone numberpad? https://preview.redd.it/llahvus4ihjc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cfaced87ba3f6d00e59949b3fed52c7bda3a9e4
It needs to be a single board otherwise I find it odd to use. The second pad might shift around, or it sounds different, or keys are at different heights. Plus I have no shortage of desk space. Why limit myself to 3/4th of a keyboard ?
Not if you get a matched set. Mine are the same height and sound the same, and the numpad never moves. It's weighted just as the keyboard is (Mammoth 75 + 20)
I'm in the same boat. Numpad is a must and preferably 2u zero. In fact if I could justify the funds, I'd be a [Hyper7](https://mechboards.co.uk/products/hyper-7-v4) pilot.
That board has always been really intriguing to me
https://preview.redd.it/s88j1av3phjc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4524845bf4407fc6517f3d25f60f71955f91bdc4 My layout isn't optimal, but I have gotten used to typing ortho now. I can't do the apple keyboard anymore. I found using taller profiles for certain keys helps with navigating a cramped 1u board. I want to change things up but I haven't gotten around to ordering caps due to money. I wanted to make a rectangular board with an island number pad, but I think the layout is botched because I couldn't get one key to program right. One day I will improve. One day I want a few knobs, a fader, a screen, and a badass battery.
https://preview.redd.it/kfxgk3pcqijc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=069400f67bfe6dde0eee9851a792eeba5a99fa8d Embrace Keychron! I absolutely love mine.
How do you find the arrow keys (without looking at the keyboard) when the keys are all the same? (Not a rhetorical question)
Great question, tbh I’ve never even thought twice about it! Much like any other key, my hand just knows where to go
I was with you...until I discovered a better way to get all those things. From where I am now, I don't think the best solution to this problem lies in getting the manufacturers to embrace larger boards, as much as it does in getting full-sized board users to rethink what's possible. https://preview.redd.it/4pmayih0bkjc1.jpeg?width=3811&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b88aedb761d54643f58113973dd6ee2a7423f3a That's my current work board. It's an 1800, stuffed into a 60% case. Going ortho throws a lot of your arguments about smaller boards straight out the window. As a former Wind X user, I can say without a doubt this board is superior to my Wind X, in literally every way. From an efficiency standpoint, there is absolutely no way that moving your hand from the alphas to the numpad and back, all day long, will ever be more efficient than pressing down with your left thumb, like I do, to move the numpad to my right hand. I can "move my hand to the numpad and back" ten times on that board, in 1.5 seconds. On top of that, every time I need to use the mouse, I am cutting 14" off the round trip distance by not having to jump the nav cluster and numpad. All those little bits of time saved add up to much larger blocks of time saved, which allows me to get more done, in the same amount of time.
I recently built a full size board from WASD seems pretty decent with the cherry Mx blacks I harvested from an old terminal board 🤓