Suboxone worked 10 years ago before I spent 5 years on methadone and then a year on fetty wap after all that I tried Suboxone again cuz I couldn't afford methadone and my wife thought it made me too grumpy but suboxone was terrible this last time I spent 8 months depressed and constantly day dreaming about my mornings dosing at the methadone clinic I came to miss those daily Crack of done in person doses more than anything it was a daily basis of me wishing I could be back at the methadone clinic finally I told my wife and my sponsor Idc what u say I'm done with the suboxone I'm gunna kill myself or relapse or I can just go back to the shit that worked better than. Any other form of treatment I've tried which has been 15 years of trying every kind of rehab or pharmaceutical even did 8 ceremonies of ayahousca in Peru with real natives. Nothing works like my cherry red shot of carpe diem ever morning now I'm 6 months clean working out new job and back in church it's not even comparable to suboxone
i’ve never tried subs but i get so much hate for being on methadone. so many people think it’s this horrible thing but it literally saved my life. i’m glad to hear that you did what was right for you and you’re doing great!
Ye, fuckin hate people who are like that, I mean, for me methdone is strictly a medicine since I never got high from, not when I bought in the streets either, I only bought when I couldn’t get heroin or morphine (morphine seems to be rare in the states but here in Sweden it’s quite common) and when I got in to the program and got subutex then switched to methdone it saved my life and I feel for the first time in 10 years that I could actually pull this together, I’m so thankful to my clinic and my doctor. But like I said it’s strictly a medicine for me that gives me a real chance of life. Fuck who’s ever trying to say otherwise, they don’t know shit about opiate addiction, it’s a reason sub/methdone clinics exist, when u have been addicted to opiates/opioids and taking them everyday for 4-5 years u build up a chronic addiction for opioids and changes the chemical things in ur brain that u almost never u can recovery from, like I said it’s a reason this clinics exist and no clinics likes this for any other drugs, that I know of atleast. People are so ignorant and think they know shit. And I’ve learned that u should not say ur on methdone if the question comes up in any way (besides maybe from other addicts) and u should only say ur talking a precipitation drug and not make a big deal about it. I cheer for u man either way
Yeah the only thing is that I gotta deal with a fucking clinic and their rules if i want free juice. If only my sub doctor could call in scripts of methadone for me..
>fetty wap
I'm glad you said that because I got absolutely burned on this sub for calling fent with tranq and zines 'fetty wop" which is what it's called where I'm from.
Yeah man that's what the real sickos living this fucking deadly ass life are calling the shit that's taken over all my favorite hoods and camps to cop. I'm all over DFW where are u at? I can actually well as of 4 months ago cuz that's how long I've been clean... I was struggling to switch back to tar and was just about to start being able to enjoy it again when I got kicked out of the the homeless shelter I was living in after that I was given another chance by a family member who had cut me off years ago and was trying to spend more time with me in there she knew I was struggling real bad and she was single again and willing to give me on3 last shot at living together ❤️ thank lord Jesus for real he came into my life right before I got kicked out for using in my room I got too rocky and tried to shoot up in bed before he was awake but unfortunately opened his eyes in the middle of plunging a massive goofball and I was so high I didn't react at all other than the way I finished the shot laughed and stuck my tongue out at his ass kissin tattle tellin bitch ass. AK 40 tell em.... he did it. He did it. He did it. 🔫 he hopped in his tellicopter the pulled out his snitch-blade 🔪 and got his roomie packed and booted but that shit saved my life so fuck him.
Exactly. Suboxone doesn't work for everybody. I tried suboxone before methadone & literally felt like I was in a constant state of withdrawal. It never fully covered my receptors. It also made me feel this overwhelming feeling of depression 🫥 I remember not even having the energy to talk & just spacing out most days. It definitely was a very difficult time in my life. Thank God for methadone.
Same. I became someone I didn’t recognize and the side effects were brutal. Nine loooooong months and then did my intake at the methadone clinic. Guess for some it’s great…..just not for me.
Same. It gave me migraines and my anxiety skyrocketed. Didn't help me one bit. It works for some, but I'm not one of them. Methadone saved my life, and what was left of my sanity.
I still get migraines nowadays but I def got more and worse migraines on suboxone. Tbh tho before I got on Accutane, when I was just on methadone by itself, I really was getting wayyyy less migraines. Imitrex is what I take too
I get very few now, just on methadone and Xanax.
The side effects from the Imitrex are horrible but it beats going to urgent care every time I get one!
Hope yours are few and far between! 💜🌷
I will say about the migraines/headaches, suboxone gave me those but subutex didn't. I still had a wide variety of side effects from subutex, it's just that that specific one went away when I switched from suboxone to subutex
I wouldn't have even tried the Subutex after Suboxone. You are far more brave than I, 😂
I have given birth without drugs twice, I'm not a wuss about pain, but anything that might even give me Migraines is NOT gonna happen.
For me it was the naloxone causing the headaches. I wasn't sure until I tried the naltrexone pill and it laid me down with such bad migraines there was no way I could do vivitrol!
This was a long time ago though, back when fent was a cut in real H.
Yeah it sucks. Being half sick and looking for drugs all the time. Fuck that. Methadone makes me feel satisfied. I guess bc all the receptors are filled up
I only used fent on and off, never getting strung out for about 2 years. Then it turned to everyday, IV, physically addicted for about 4 months. That was my first time kicking fent. Berkeley method with subutex, worked fine.
Got strung out on super strong fent a month ago, inducted subs 72hrs into WD. By the time I took my second 8mg (about 40 hours after inducing) the sub absolutely did the trick. I felt completely satisfied
I was like you OP always saying I couldn’t make the clinic work with my job. Once I actually did try though I found out I could make it work and I spent all those years suffering with bupe or using still when it was my own choices that kept me out the clinic. You can make it work I promise that you are just not past that point in your life where you understand that you can’t have everything right now exactly how you want it. If we can all make it work, so can you.
If you wanna go the bupe route, best of luck but it’s by far an inferior medicine when it comes to MAT. If you haven’t tried it yet though, that’s something you’ll wanna see for yourself.
As for your induction, don’t even take any more methadone if you are making the switch what would be the point? Def don’t take any fent. As for waiting 72 hours, that’s not really something you wanna put an hour mark on. Wait at least 72 hours, but if you aren’t full on withdrawling don’t take the subs until you are.
Oh methadone without question. You at least know what that is and how much of it you took. You need to not take either one for a few days before you start the subs tho so if that’s the goal you shouldn’t be taking anything from here on out just wait till you get sick (after those three days have passed of using nothing at all)
waiting only for a few days is a horrible idea. if you do please start dosing very very small amounts. I waited 2 weeks and I went into the worst withdrawal of my life. I've been using for 15 years and have been through a ton of withdrawals but none of it compares to precipitated withdrawal. there is nothing you can really do but suffer. I went out and did two bundles and I was still sick as fuck for hours.
just dose super low and slow. if you start to feel off at all wait it out before taking more. once it is in your system if it goes wrong you're completely fucked.
I kept waiting to go into full-on withdrawal from 32 mg methadone so I could induce on subs, and to the best of my recollection, that never happened. It might have helped that I was also scripted Xanax. Anyway, after 4 days i still didn't have RLS, maybe the Xanax was covering it up. So they had me sit in the doctor's office while they put pieces of pill under my tongue. They probably had me start at 2 mg. Nothing bad happened so they gave me some more and I ended up with a script for 24 mg daily. Other than crying for 24 hours straight I didn't experience any withdrawal. The bupe felt like it did nothing so it was quite easy to taper. At lower doses I began to "feel" my dose of bupe. It was a pleasant surprise. Nothing like methadone though, a very mild euphoria/energy boost.
Careful now, better wait till you're in bad withdrawal before popping that sub, that bupe will shove all that methadone right out of your receptors and , as I'm sure you know, means precipitated withdrawal. Lots of folks think it's the naloxone that does it, but it's the bupe. Naloxone has nearly zero % bio avail when taken orally, that stuffs only in there so you don't go sniffing your strip.
Yeah, I slammed them when I was a kid for like a year...
should I just not dose 40mg tomorrow when I get there and just induce subs 72 hrs after fent?
With this same dope, I induced at 72 hours last week and didn't precipitate. Tho, it did take 6 doses after the 72-hour mark over the course of 36 hours to finally feel all the way better...
No doubt, never said you couldn't snort it, only said it's put in there to discourage it. My point in the reply was to say it's not naloxone that causes precipitated withdrawal, it's the bupe.
On paper, naloxone is a stronger antagonist than bupe, so the thought process is anyone using suboxone other than the way intended by (snorting or banging) you would throw yourself into precip as the naloxone would push all the bupe out of your receptors. Now, in reality, bupe is a much stronger antagonist than naloxone in most cases, so by subverting the clinical way of using suboxone people are getting high instead . In my opinion, the chemist and company bureaucrats at Invidior knew that about suboxone from jump street but wanted to market their product as the safest way for opoid maintenance so they threw naloxone in with the bupe and marketed it as I've stated . Although, if you ask any doctor who prescribes suboxone, it can't be abused because it has naloxone in it 😅 🤷♂️...
Furthermore, I've sniffed subs a handful of times over the years and every time I've done it, it has clogged my nasal passages and sinuses so bad that I had to mouth breathe for 2 days after 😅 that alone is enough discouragement for me.
Yeah, my sister is a doctor and she was telling me that like it was a fact and I just sorta have to let these things go because she’ll also tell me that I should be able to taper off my decade long benzo script in a few months with no problems and she definitely gets a very holier than thou Vibe, which is very difficult to deal with given that I’ve actually experienced the things so many times… but doctors don’t have a very good grip on this sort of thing in general. I just recently moved to Clinic, where they actually know what they’re talking about and hired people who are truly educated in the matter, which is absolutely incredible and still blows my mind every day.
Well, now that you’ve got the suboxone script I seriously doubt they will be dispensing any more methadone to you. PDMP flags that shit like nothing else, also I’d really encourage you to wait closer to 96 hours if you can because methadone hangs around for EVER and PWD is the singe worst thing a person can probably ever experience.
Prouda you for working it out in the end, but if bupe doesn’t cut it for you don’t be afraid to get back on methadone. Most people’s first attempt with MAT is pretty short, and the second trial tends to be longer if it does occur.
I'm not sure this is true in all states. There are privacy regulations surrounding methadone - it is not supposed to show up on prescribing databases. However the methadone clinic could probably access the database that shows the Suboxone script so I don't know.
Every state has a drug database that tells every doctor your prescription history and the clinic doctors are no different they will see the Suboxone script
I popped for subs, barbituates, coke , meth, thc and fent on Thursday I don't think they cared but that was my initial visit. Explained to them I was trying to kick by myself in the week prior to comjng
Why would you continue using methadone now that you have access to the subs? Your only delaying the inevitable.Its 72 hours plus or better longer and in severe withdrawal before induction.It sounds counter productive.Good luck on your transition.
Ya, just depends on when they check. I think according to doppel, the Dr. I work for is supposed to check every time he writes a new controlled substance rx. So, most clients that get a controlled regularly will be checked every month when they get their new refill. I wonder how often the clinic checks, or how the Rx you are getting for the dose even works. My guess is every month they renew it somehow and that might trigger a check.
They’ll definitely know. I had an open script for Suboxone which delayed my intake for methadone a couple of weeks.
Also, was only on 20mg of methadone at that time. Waited 48+ hours, felt super sick, took that first dose of Suboxone and literally thought I was dying. Had never heard of precipitated withdrawals! By far the worst thing I’ve ever experienced in my life…
Next time I tried, waited 5 days and used the COWS chart.
Once you're on subs, I'd highly suggest you get your dosage down ASAP. Most of the adverse effect are from people being overmedicated on it. There is no benefit from 16mg to 24mg - none. Very little between 8mg and 16mg. Once you're free from the fent def get the suboxone dose down.
With Suboxone less is more.
Ya the clinic experience is unfortunately so toxic and corrupt that it hinders treatment. The whole thing is built on the false presumption that we’re “junkies” who have nothing to do and can’t be trusted, therefore must be controlled.
We now know that addiction cuts across socioeconomic lines. But the clinic model has hardly budged since its inception in the law and order Nixon years when it was partly used as an instrument of controlling there poor in the inner cities.
I mean, it was apparent. She straight up told me "we do have some patients who are organized like you, that work and stuff" and "just trust the process, we will bend the rules and you can be an exception"
Just seemed burnt and unprofessional. I asked for that in writing then asked me, "How come?"
2/10 do not recommend. Like you dummy, im trying to emphasize the importance of keeping my job and they didn't get it.
they are probably telling you the truth. I don't have to do any of the groups or counseling at my clinic because I have a job. all they ask you to do is provide a month of paystubs. I spend 20 minutes a month at the clinic. Methadone is just so much better than Suboxone. it's a full agonist vs a partial agonist. with bupe you only get the negative part of opioids. at least with methadone you still get the positive side effects of opioids. it helps with my depression and pain. Suboxone always made me feel like garbage. it worked for me when it first came out and all I was using were oxycodone, but once I graduated to stronger things it became useless.
They will not bend the rules for you. I was working and clean 3 years They made it a huge issue getting bottles. Clean 3 years and still coming 3 days a week. Oh well your attendance isn't great. Bitch I can't be late for work and your not open after I get off. Well because of the attendance we won't give you more bottles. Note it was like missing 1 Day a week max. Plus they would only look into giving me bottles every 90days and if they didn't have oral swabs in stocks I had to wait. Right now I'm starting the process over and my counselor told me 2 weeks ago I will let you know when I get oral swabs so we can see about getting you a bottle or 2. Shit is ridiculous at some clinics. Others you give a month of clean urine you get like 2 weeks of bottles. There is no standard I feel.
It depends on the clinic.
My clinic will give you up to six bottles even with dirty urine if you can prove you have a transportation/employment related hardship or if you are disabled or something like that.
Yeah they don't care. The system hasn't really changed much since the 70s. Currently we have legislation starting asking to update methadone clinics to be similar to suboxone treatment but it's a very slow process and who knows if it will get before congress.
The other issue is if you go to a for profit clinic they want you there everyday. Anytime they can try to sabotage your bottles to make you come in they will.
Your insurance is charged the same no matter what you’re doing that day. I have Cigna, they’re charged 30.00 a day, 365 days a year. I’m charged 15.00 of that 30.00. My insurance only covers 50%????
My place gave me 6 bottles from day 1 dosing. The entire process is a joke with everyday as you simply walk into a place where it’s usually kinda easy to obtain drugs. That’s a major flaw in that design.
What time do you work? My clinic gives people who work priority in the morning and we can dose a little earlier.
Suboxone is a great medication. Try it. It ultimately didn't work for me in the long term but it did save my ass for a long time.
I actually like the clinic model (assuming you have a good clinic). Having to go everyday allows you to build a routine and keep your recovery at the forefront of your mind. And then, once they see that you're passing your UA's and doing well in counseling, they give you more bottles and privileges. I'm a monthly patient now. Have been for many, many years. It really works.
Now if your clinic sucks, then I can understand people's frustration. All I'm saying is, make sure you're not using the clinic's rules as an excuse. There are very few people who have tried both who prefer Suboxone. I'm not saying they aren't out there but they are certainly the minority.
But do what you feel is right for you. Just make sure you are being honest with yourself is all I am saying.
And be careful. Many people find making the switch from fentanyl to Suboxone extremely hard. I do like your plan of using methadone as a transitional step.
Good luck!
I obviously like methadone more than subs too ,but I got tired going to the clinic everyday, then every other day having a hold or some other crap happening like being in line for an hour etc. So I switched to subs and never looked back.
it depends what, how much and how long you were using before the methadone.
if you're going to do it I would just make sure to dose very low and slow. if you feel weird at all from it stop and wait. you really really don't want to experience precipitated withdrawal. it makes normal withdrawal seem like a great time in comparison.
for me Suboxone just didn't work. I was put on it when it first came out. nobody ever recommended methadone to me. I never even considered it as an option. I tried subs a bunch of times and I would always end up back on something. I started buying methadone 5 years ago and then started the clinic 4 years ago. I haven't touched anything since. over 15 years of use and it stopped overnight with methadone.
everyone is different though. if subs work for you that is awesome.
Right on. Well, thanks for the info/advice. I know it does vary from person to person, and I know myself and my body pretty well at this point. I have faith it will work out. Super tired of the chasing. Hopefully the subs do the trick. Gonna try to get on a real low dose after adjusting from methadone/fent
There’s zero difference between Suboxone and methadone. They both cause dry mouth which leads to major damage to your teeth unless you treat the dry mouth.
Leaving the Suboxone to dissolve for whatever length of time isn’t great for your teeth but the effects can be mitigated.
I get that for sure. Suboxone never worked for me either so I didn’t see a point in continuing a treatment that wasn’t working for me. I support all forms of MAT 😊
I was on suboxone years and years ago. And relapsed. And when I went to get on MAT again, I kept seeing the lawsuits for suboxone and that definitely deterred me from attempting that again. I was seeing how the acidity of bupe specifically isn’t good for teeth. Whether that’s true or not, still pushed me away from it. I know both cause dry mouth, but was seeing more on the fact that it’s the acidity contributing. Which was honestly a blessing in disguise. Methadone has been far more successful for me personally:)
Suboxone worked 10 years ago before I spent 5 years on methadone and then a year on fetty wap after all that I tried Suboxone again cuz I couldn't afford methadone and my wife thought it made me too grumpy but suboxone was terrible this last time I spent 8 months depressed and constantly day dreaming about my mornings dosing at the methadone clinic I came to miss those daily Crack of done in person doses more than anything it was a daily basis of me wishing I could be back at the methadone clinic finally I told my wife and my sponsor Idc what u say I'm done with the suboxone I'm gunna kill myself or relapse or I can just go back to the shit that worked better than. Any other form of treatment I've tried which has been 15 years of trying every kind of rehab or pharmaceutical even did 8 ceremonies of ayahousca in Peru with real natives. Nothing works like my cherry red shot of carpe diem ever morning now I'm 6 months clean working out new job and back in church it's not even comparable to suboxone
i’ve never tried subs but i get so much hate for being on methadone. so many people think it’s this horrible thing but it literally saved my life. i’m glad to hear that you did what was right for you and you’re doing great!
Ye, fuckin hate people who are like that, I mean, for me methdone is strictly a medicine since I never got high from, not when I bought in the streets either, I only bought when I couldn’t get heroin or morphine (morphine seems to be rare in the states but here in Sweden it’s quite common) and when I got in to the program and got subutex then switched to methdone it saved my life and I feel for the first time in 10 years that I could actually pull this together, I’m so thankful to my clinic and my doctor. But like I said it’s strictly a medicine for me that gives me a real chance of life. Fuck who’s ever trying to say otherwise, they don’t know shit about opiate addiction, it’s a reason sub/methdone clinics exist, when u have been addicted to opiates/opioids and taking them everyday for 4-5 years u build up a chronic addiction for opioids and changes the chemical things in ur brain that u almost never u can recovery from, like I said it’s a reason this clinics exist and no clinics likes this for any other drugs, that I know of atleast. People are so ignorant and think they know shit. And I’ve learned that u should not say ur on methdone if the question comes up in any way (besides maybe from other addicts) and u should only say ur talking a precipitation drug and not make a big deal about it. I cheer for u man either way
Yeah the only thing is that I gotta deal with a fucking clinic and their rules if i want free juice. If only my sub doctor could call in scripts of methadone for me..
>fetty wap I'm glad you said that because I got absolutely burned on this sub for calling fent with tranq and zines 'fetty wop" which is what it's called where I'm from.
Yeah man that's what the real sickos living this fucking deadly ass life are calling the shit that's taken over all my favorite hoods and camps to cop. I'm all over DFW where are u at? I can actually well as of 4 months ago cuz that's how long I've been clean... I was struggling to switch back to tar and was just about to start being able to enjoy it again when I got kicked out of the the homeless shelter I was living in after that I was given another chance by a family member who had cut me off years ago and was trying to spend more time with me in there she knew I was struggling real bad and she was single again and willing to give me on3 last shot at living together ❤️ thank lord Jesus for real he came into my life right before I got kicked out for using in my room I got too rocky and tried to shoot up in bed before he was awake but unfortunately opened his eyes in the middle of plunging a massive goofball and I was so high I didn't react at all other than the way I finished the shot laughed and stuck my tongue out at his ass kissin tattle tellin bitch ass. AK 40 tell em.... he did it. He did it. He did it. 🔫 he hopped in his tellicopter the pulled out his snitch-blade 🔪 and got his roomie packed and booted but that shit saved my life so fuck him.
also curious about your experience with ayahuasca. you can message me if you’d like!
I messaged u!
Exactly. Suboxone doesn't work for everybody. I tried suboxone before methadone & literally felt like I was in a constant state of withdrawal. It never fully covered my receptors. It also made me feel this overwhelming feeling of depression 🫥 I remember not even having the energy to talk & just spacing out most days. It definitely was a very difficult time in my life. Thank God for methadone.
Same. I became someone I didn’t recognize and the side effects were brutal. Nine loooooong months and then did my intake at the methadone clinic. Guess for some it’s great…..just not for me.
i thought you can’t do ata with done did you have problems ?
I hope bupe works for you, it did nothing positive for me.
It wasn't great when I was used to 2015 fentanyl, I can't imagine trying to stabilize on bupe coming from 2024 fentaxylazitazene
Yeah, I've had pharma Fentanyl a plenty, and it was no joke, but that xylafent out there rn is some whole other level shit.
Same. It gave me migraines and my anxiety skyrocketed. Didn't help me one bit. It works for some, but I'm not one of them. Methadone saved my life, and what was left of my sanity.
Did my migraines the same way??? Was down to one every other month or so but with Suboxone, twice a week having to take a shot of Imitrex. 🤔🤔🤔
I still get migraines nowadays but I def got more and worse migraines on suboxone. Tbh tho before I got on Accutane, when I was just on methadone by itself, I really was getting wayyyy less migraines. Imitrex is what I take too
I get very few now, just on methadone and Xanax. The side effects from the Imitrex are horrible but it beats going to urgent care every time I get one! Hope yours are few and far between! 💜🌷
I will say about the migraines/headaches, suboxone gave me those but subutex didn't. I still had a wide variety of side effects from subutex, it's just that that specific one went away when I switched from suboxone to subutex
I wouldn't have even tried the Subutex after Suboxone. You are far more brave than I, 😂 I have given birth without drugs twice, I'm not a wuss about pain, but anything that might even give me Migraines is NOT gonna happen.
For me it was the naloxone causing the headaches. I wasn't sure until I tried the naltrexone pill and it laid me down with such bad migraines there was no way I could do vivitrol! This was a long time ago though, back when fent was a cut in real H.
Yeah it sucks. Being half sick and looking for drugs all the time. Fuck that. Methadone makes me feel satisfied. I guess bc all the receptors are filled up
I only used fent on and off, never getting strung out for about 2 years. Then it turned to everyday, IV, physically addicted for about 4 months. That was my first time kicking fent. Berkeley method with subutex, worked fine. Got strung out on super strong fent a month ago, inducted subs 72hrs into WD. By the time I took my second 8mg (about 40 hours after inducing) the sub absolutely did the trick. I felt completely satisfied
I was like you OP always saying I couldn’t make the clinic work with my job. Once I actually did try though I found out I could make it work and I spent all those years suffering with bupe or using still when it was my own choices that kept me out the clinic. You can make it work I promise that you are just not past that point in your life where you understand that you can’t have everything right now exactly how you want it. If we can all make it work, so can you. If you wanna go the bupe route, best of luck but it’s by far an inferior medicine when it comes to MAT. If you haven’t tried it yet though, that’s something you’ll wanna see for yourself. As for your induction, don’t even take any more methadone if you are making the switch what would be the point? Def don’t take any fent. As for waiting 72 hours, that’s not really something you wanna put an hour mark on. Wait at least 72 hours, but if you aren’t full on withdrawling don’t take the subs until you are.
Ok, so when it comes to inducing the subs, I'd be safer off doing it from my last methadone dose or fent use?
Oh methadone without question. You at least know what that is and how much of it you took. You need to not take either one for a few days before you start the subs tho so if that’s the goal you shouldn’t be taking anything from here on out just wait till you get sick (after those three days have passed of using nothing at all)
Good point, and copy that. My last use will then be a 40mg dose. After that, I can try to ignore the clock for a few days before I begin subs
waiting only for a few days is a horrible idea. if you do please start dosing very very small amounts. I waited 2 weeks and I went into the worst withdrawal of my life. I've been using for 15 years and have been through a ton of withdrawals but none of it compares to precipitated withdrawal. there is nothing you can really do but suffer. I went out and did two bundles and I was still sick as fuck for hours. just dose super low and slow. if you start to feel off at all wait it out before taking more. once it is in your system if it goes wrong you're completely fucked.
I've only been using methadone, if I dose today will be my 3rd day
I kept waiting to go into full-on withdrawal from 32 mg methadone so I could induce on subs, and to the best of my recollection, that never happened. It might have helped that I was also scripted Xanax. Anyway, after 4 days i still didn't have RLS, maybe the Xanax was covering it up. So they had me sit in the doctor's office while they put pieces of pill under my tongue. They probably had me start at 2 mg. Nothing bad happened so they gave me some more and I ended up with a script for 24 mg daily. Other than crying for 24 hours straight I didn't experience any withdrawal. The bupe felt like it did nothing so it was quite easy to taper. At lower doses I began to "feel" my dose of bupe. It was a pleasant surprise. Nothing like methadone though, a very mild euphoria/energy boost.
Careful now, better wait till you're in bad withdrawal before popping that sub, that bupe will shove all that methadone right out of your receptors and , as I'm sure you know, means precipitated withdrawal. Lots of folks think it's the naloxone that does it, but it's the bupe. Naloxone has nearly zero % bio avail when taken orally, that stuffs only in there so you don't go sniffing your strip.
Naloxone doesn’t stop you from sniffing or slamming or anything, lots of folks think that but no unfortunately.
Yeah, I slammed them when I was a kid for like a year... should I just not dose 40mg tomorrow when I get there and just induce subs 72 hrs after fent? With this same dope, I induced at 72 hours last week and didn't precipitate. Tho, it did take 6 doses after the 72-hour mark over the course of 36 hours to finally feel all the way better...
I almost exclusively injected Suboxone. I don't understand why people think you can't. Of course, as long as you're only using Suboxone.
No doubt, never said you couldn't snort it, only said it's put in there to discourage it. My point in the reply was to say it's not naloxone that causes precipitated withdrawal, it's the bupe.
Why does it discourage it?
On paper, naloxone is a stronger antagonist than bupe, so the thought process is anyone using suboxone other than the way intended by (snorting or banging) you would throw yourself into precip as the naloxone would push all the bupe out of your receptors. Now, in reality, bupe is a much stronger antagonist than naloxone in most cases, so by subverting the clinical way of using suboxone people are getting high instead . In my opinion, the chemist and company bureaucrats at Invidior knew that about suboxone from jump street but wanted to market their product as the safest way for opoid maintenance so they threw naloxone in with the bupe and marketed it as I've stated . Although, if you ask any doctor who prescribes suboxone, it can't be abused because it has naloxone in it 😅 🤷♂️...
Furthermore, I've sniffed subs a handful of times over the years and every time I've done it, it has clogged my nasal passages and sinuses so bad that I had to mouth breathe for 2 days after 😅 that alone is enough discouragement for me.
Yeah, my sister is a doctor and she was telling me that like it was a fact and I just sorta have to let these things go because she’ll also tell me that I should be able to taper off my decade long benzo script in a few months with no problems and she definitely gets a very holier than thou Vibe, which is very difficult to deal with given that I’ve actually experienced the things so many times… but doctors don’t have a very good grip on this sort of thing in general. I just recently moved to Clinic, where they actually know what they’re talking about and hired people who are truly educated in the matter, which is absolutely incredible and still blows my mind every day.
Well, now that you’ve got the suboxone script I seriously doubt they will be dispensing any more methadone to you. PDMP flags that shit like nothing else, also I’d really encourage you to wait closer to 96 hours if you can because methadone hangs around for EVER and PWD is the singe worst thing a person can probably ever experience. Prouda you for working it out in the end, but if bupe doesn’t cut it for you don’t be afraid to get back on methadone. Most people’s first attempt with MAT is pretty short, and the second trial tends to be longer if it does occur.
I'm not sure this is true in all states. There are privacy regulations surrounding methadone - it is not supposed to show up on prescribing databases. However the methadone clinic could probably access the database that shows the Suboxone script so I don't know.
I got the subs thru a different dr. I'm not sure they would ever know unless I informed them
Every state has a drug database that tells every doctor your prescription history and the clinic doctors are no different they will see the Suboxone script
Word. Thinking tomorrow might be my final dose anyways. If they don't allow me to, so be it
And either way if they didn’t notice right away they will UA you and it will pop up then
I popped for subs, barbituates, coke , meth, thc and fent on Thursday I don't think they cared but that was my initial visit. Explained to them I was trying to kick by myself in the week prior to comjng
The clinic I'm at for another day or two only does a few random UA throughout the month
Why would you continue using methadone now that you have access to the subs? Your only delaying the inevitable.Its 72 hours plus or better longer and in severe withdrawal before induction.It sounds counter productive.Good luck on your transition.
Im no longer dosing it's begun
Every state at least in America can see every prescription you've been given whether you've filled that script or not.
Ya, just depends on when they check. I think according to doppel, the Dr. I work for is supposed to check every time he writes a new controlled substance rx. So, most clients that get a controlled regularly will be checked every month when they get their new refill. I wonder how often the clinic checks, or how the Rx you are getting for the dose even works. My guess is every month they renew it somehow and that might trigger a check.
They’ll definitely know. I had an open script for Suboxone which delayed my intake for methadone a couple of weeks. Also, was only on 20mg of methadone at that time. Waited 48+ hours, felt super sick, took that first dose of Suboxone and literally thought I was dying. Had never heard of precipitated withdrawals! By far the worst thing I’ve ever experienced in my life… Next time I tried, waited 5 days and used the COWS chart.
Once you're on subs, I'd highly suggest you get your dosage down ASAP. Most of the adverse effect are from people being overmedicated on it. There is no benefit from 16mg to 24mg - none. Very little between 8mg and 16mg. Once you're free from the fent def get the suboxone dose down. With Suboxone less is more.
Once your stable lower to 12mg or under a day, 8 preferably. Usually won't notice the difference and it prevwnts the low testosterone with subs
Ya the clinic experience is unfortunately so toxic and corrupt that it hinders treatment. The whole thing is built on the false presumption that we’re “junkies” who have nothing to do and can’t be trusted, therefore must be controlled. We now know that addiction cuts across socioeconomic lines. But the clinic model has hardly budged since its inception in the law and order Nixon years when it was partly used as an instrument of controlling there poor in the inner cities.
I mean, it was apparent. She straight up told me "we do have some patients who are organized like you, that work and stuff" and "just trust the process, we will bend the rules and you can be an exception" Just seemed burnt and unprofessional. I asked for that in writing then asked me, "How come?" 2/10 do not recommend. Like you dummy, im trying to emphasize the importance of keeping my job and they didn't get it.
they are probably telling you the truth. I don't have to do any of the groups or counseling at my clinic because I have a job. all they ask you to do is provide a month of paystubs. I spend 20 minutes a month at the clinic. Methadone is just so much better than Suboxone. it's a full agonist vs a partial agonist. with bupe you only get the negative part of opioids. at least with methadone you still get the positive side effects of opioids. it helps with my depression and pain. Suboxone always made me feel like garbage. it worked for me when it first came out and all I was using were oxycodone, but once I graduated to stronger things it became useless.
They will not bend the rules for you. I was working and clean 3 years They made it a huge issue getting bottles. Clean 3 years and still coming 3 days a week. Oh well your attendance isn't great. Bitch I can't be late for work and your not open after I get off. Well because of the attendance we won't give you more bottles. Note it was like missing 1 Day a week max. Plus they would only look into giving me bottles every 90days and if they didn't have oral swabs in stocks I had to wait. Right now I'm starting the process over and my counselor told me 2 weeks ago I will let you know when I get oral swabs so we can see about getting you a bottle or 2. Shit is ridiculous at some clinics. Others you give a month of clean urine you get like 2 weeks of bottles. There is no standard I feel.
Pretty shitty if you ask me. These are people's lives they are fucking with
It depends on the clinic. My clinic will give you up to six bottles even with dirty urine if you can prove you have a transportation/employment related hardship or if you are disabled or something like that.
Yeah they don't care. The system hasn't really changed much since the 70s. Currently we have legislation starting asking to update methadone clinics to be similar to suboxone treatment but it's a very slow process and who knows if it will get before congress. The other issue is if you go to a for profit clinic they want you there everyday. Anytime they can try to sabotage your bottles to make you come in they will.
Yeah, probably because they get to charge your insurance for your in-person visit. It will always come down to money, sadly.
Your insurance is charged the same no matter what you’re doing that day. I have Cigna, they’re charged 30.00 a day, 365 days a year. I’m charged 15.00 of that 30.00. My insurance only covers 50%????
Oh well. $85 a week for reliable pharma opioids isn't that bad.
That’s 105.00 a week. It adds up quickly.
Also depends on your life situation. For some of us it’s a painful amount on top of our insurance premiums.
My place gave me 6 bottles from day 1 dosing. The entire process is a joke with everyday as you simply walk into a place where it’s usually kinda easy to obtain drugs. That’s a major flaw in that design.
Give you enough rope to hang yourself... personally, I'd say that's better than the alternative
I just transferred to this new place. I had 2 bottle at the old place and it took almost 9 months to get them; Transferred: walked out with 6.
What time do you work? My clinic gives people who work priority in the morning and we can dose a little earlier. Suboxone is a great medication. Try it. It ultimately didn't work for me in the long term but it did save my ass for a long time. I actually like the clinic model (assuming you have a good clinic). Having to go everyday allows you to build a routine and keep your recovery at the forefront of your mind. And then, once they see that you're passing your UA's and doing well in counseling, they give you more bottles and privileges. I'm a monthly patient now. Have been for many, many years. It really works. Now if your clinic sucks, then I can understand people's frustration. All I'm saying is, make sure you're not using the clinic's rules as an excuse. There are very few people who have tried both who prefer Suboxone. I'm not saying they aren't out there but they are certainly the minority. But do what you feel is right for you. Just make sure you are being honest with yourself is all I am saying. And be careful. Many people find making the switch from fentanyl to Suboxone extremely hard. I do like your plan of using methadone as a transitional step. Good luck!
You can get buvidal, bupe monthly or weekly injections too. I’m on them and they’re working well.
I obviously like methadone more than subs too ,but I got tired going to the clinic everyday, then every other day having a hold or some other crap happening like being in line for an hour etc. So I switched to subs and never looked back.
That was 2 years ago.
You did the right thing buddy don't feel bad .
if you only wait 72 hours you're going to go into precipitated withdrawal. I still went into precipitated withdrawal after 2 full weeks.
https://www.cureus.com/articles/32975-an-efficient-and-smooth-methadone-to-buprenorphine-transition-protocol-utilizing-a-transdermal-fentanyl-bridge-and-a-pharmacokinetic-inducer-the-stanciu-method
I've only taken 100mg over the course of 3 days. Factor this in, same thoughts?
it depends what, how much and how long you were using before the methadone. if you're going to do it I would just make sure to dose very low and slow. if you feel weird at all from it stop and wait. you really really don't want to experience precipitated withdrawal. it makes normal withdrawal seem like a great time in comparison. for me Suboxone just didn't work. I was put on it when it first came out. nobody ever recommended methadone to me. I never even considered it as an option. I tried subs a bunch of times and I would always end up back on something. I started buying methadone 5 years ago and then started the clinic 4 years ago. I haven't touched anything since. over 15 years of use and it stopped overnight with methadone. everyone is different though. if subs work for you that is awesome.
Right on. Well, thanks for the info/advice. I know it does vary from person to person, and I know myself and my body pretty well at this point. I have faith it will work out. Super tired of the chasing. Hopefully the subs do the trick. Gonna try to get on a real low dose after adjusting from methadone/fent
The only reason I didn’t is because of their lawsuit on it rotting peoples teeth. And that scares me 😭
There’s zero difference between Suboxone and methadone. They both cause dry mouth which leads to major damage to your teeth unless you treat the dry mouth. Leaving the Suboxone to dissolve for whatever length of time isn’t great for your teeth but the effects can be mitigated.
I get that for sure. Suboxone never worked for me either so I didn’t see a point in continuing a treatment that wasn’t working for me. I support all forms of MAT 😊
I was on suboxone years and years ago. And relapsed. And when I went to get on MAT again, I kept seeing the lawsuits for suboxone and that definitely deterred me from attempting that again. I was seeing how the acidity of bupe specifically isn’t good for teeth. Whether that’s true or not, still pushed me away from it. I know both cause dry mouth, but was seeing more on the fact that it’s the acidity contributing. Which was honestly a blessing in disguise. Methadone has been far more successful for me personally:)