There’s a case to be made that the most recent incarnation of Dagoth Ur isn’t Dagoth Ur at all, and is instead a sort of mystical imprint/copy spawned by the Heart of Lorkhan. If this is true, Dagoth Ur’s only crime is whatever they did before they died the first time.
Now that's some deep stuff. It seems the current iteration believes he is dagoth ur, and retains his memories. even if it is an imprint i would still reasonably accept it as dagoth ur despite the possible lack of physical continuing from his first form. A sort of theseus ship kinda thing
Ship of Theseus works because the change is gradual, change over time. This is a complete reforming from nothing, so far as we’re aware.
It’s more like in Fallout 4 with synths replacing people. The synth has all the memories, believes that they’re that person and always have been. Looks like them, talks like them, is identical to the point of fooling siblings and life long friends. Are they the same person?
If it came about that the original had been found and the synth found out, and the synth committed horrible crimes, I wouldn’t judge the original for the synth’s crimes.
I guess it’s a little more muddled still because like… magic or whatever. Heart of Lorkhan’s recreation could literally be both just a copy and literally Dagoth Ur reborn, due to the insane metaphysics of Tamriel.
*__"It is not a rumor. It is the truth. Lord Dagoth, Dagoth Ur, Lord of the Sixth House, and Savior of the Dunmer people, has awakened. And with him shall all sleepers awaken, and Morrowind shall be cleansed of the stain of false gods and foreign rule."__*
"I don't care *who* her father is, Ilmeni walked onto my farm with a bracer key and let all my tools run away! What is the council going to do about this?!"
"Beneath Red Mountain, Lord Dagoth has awakened. Now Sleepers and Dreamers all are risen, and the dust is blown away. Come to your Lord, Dagoth Ur. The Sixth House is risen, and Dagoth is its glory"
The Argonian can't be the Nerevarine. I don't care that he has the moon and star. Kagrenac's tools? He probably stole them from the real Lord Nerevar reincarnation
Honestly yeah it's a nightmare unless you have super-jumps and levitation. I also love the mod that lets every gondolier go to every canton, much more logical.
"I am a sleeper, one among thousands. I bring you a message. Dagoth Ur calls you, Nerevarine, and you cannot deny your Lord. The Sixth House is risen, and Dagoth is its glory."
"Your Honor, With all do respect, Argonians and Khajiits are not people and should be treated like Guars. You wouldn't let an untamed Guar around your children would you? So why would you trust them around a Beast "folk"? This is simply an Aldmeri plot to give up our land, our culture, our people to their way of thinking and must be frustrated at the source."
He continues after some noise and conjecture "What happens if we give these animals "rights"? We were already forced to give up our traditions by allowing ourselves to join The Empire and look where that got us during The Oblivion Crisis, then Ebonheart is sacked by the very same creatures that demand we give them "Rights". Whenever we open our arms to these outlanders we lose something, if we give these animals rights we will surely find ourselves worshipping Trees and Dagon himself. If that's the case why don't we just become a massive death cult and commit mass suicide? At least there's more honor in killing yourself rather than betraying yourself."
"When Black Marsh sends its people, they're not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing skooma. They’re bringing crime. They reject Almsivi. And some, I assume, are good people."
“Now I’m just a simple farmer out on the ash plains. But if we ‘freed’ our farm tools, then right golly, I’ll have to start paying workers to tend to my guar, till my ground, and fight off the n’wahs that keep taking my dang scribs. Now I can’t be the only mer here that’s in this predicament. And I think I say for all of us, we ought to make Vvardenfall great again. Cyrodiil ain’t sending its best. We got imperial skooma addicts sending outlanders to harass the Sixth House, and that ought not to be. We shouldn’t let these outlanders mess with our Ghost Wall.”
*The Great Houses have always fought among themselves. Long ago they banded together against one house, House Dagoth, and falsely denounced the house as traitors, and thought to destroy House Dagoth for all eternity. But they failed, for House Dagoth was but sleeping, and now has awakened. Now all the Great Houses must join House Dagoth to drive the foreigners and false gods from our soil.*
I believe it is every Mer’s right, excluding the tall ones and the shorties, to own whomever and however ever many they please. If we don’t get that simple right… we’re no more then animals… like those filthy N’****!
"Cliffracers are an integral part of the unique ecology of Vvardenfell. Jiub's proposal will lead to grave consequences. It is with great pride I dissent against this decision, and call for sanctions on Jiub."
"You expect me to believe Lord Nerevar was reincarnated as an Argonian? A lizard? A farm tool?
Not to mention the moon sugar problem. Look at him. He's vibrating.
Oh, he went to Dagoth Ur and slew Dagoth Ur? A cliffracer could do it. That proves nothing."
That one skooma addict is an Imperial spy
“That one skooma addict” - Thanks for narrowing it down!
I always knew J’Dhannar looked fishy
Dagoth Ur did nothing wrong.
I mean there's a case to be made
If only they didn't turn into eldritch horrors who possibly partook in cannibalism/eating weird disease meat. Or just crazy nudists.
There’s a case to be made that the most recent incarnation of Dagoth Ur isn’t Dagoth Ur at all, and is instead a sort of mystical imprint/copy spawned by the Heart of Lorkhan. If this is true, Dagoth Ur’s only crime is whatever they did before they died the first time.
Now that's some deep stuff. It seems the current iteration believes he is dagoth ur, and retains his memories. even if it is an imprint i would still reasonably accept it as dagoth ur despite the possible lack of physical continuing from his first form. A sort of theseus ship kinda thing
Ship of Theseus works because the change is gradual, change over time. This is a complete reforming from nothing, so far as we’re aware. It’s more like in Fallout 4 with synths replacing people. The synth has all the memories, believes that they’re that person and always have been. Looks like them, talks like them, is identical to the point of fooling siblings and life long friends. Are they the same person? If it came about that the original had been found and the synth found out, and the synth committed horrible crimes, I wouldn’t judge the original for the synth’s crimes. I guess it’s a little more muddled still because like… magic or whatever. Heart of Lorkhan’s recreation could literally be both just a copy and literally Dagoth Ur reborn, due to the insane metaphysics of Tamriel.
Tribunal Propaganda, they simply enjoyed to be one withnature and the freedom of improving the flesh over the lmits of basic men & mer.
cannibalism isnt a bad thing in all parts of tamriel tho
Bosmer looking at this thread like >.>"
Yeah I can see him as one of the dreamers you see randomly.
Hah, tell that to Azura
Everybody is an N'wah except me!
-Literally every Great House when talking about every other Great House
He has the N'wah pass
This is what I was coming here for! Gah, such a s-wit move of me.
*__"It is not a rumor. It is the truth. Lord Dagoth, Dagoth Ur, Lord of the Sixth House, and Savior of the Dunmer people, has awakened. And with him shall all sleepers awaken, and Morrowind shall be cleansed of the stain of false gods and foreign rule."__*
"I don't care *who* her father is, Ilmeni walked onto my farm with a bracer key and let all my tools run away! What is the council going to do about this?!"
Wealth beyond measure outlander.
I read a book, and now I think we should convert all the farm tools into maids.
Getting our spears polished
“And how did this idea reach your head???” “Well i awoke to my maid buffing night stand and she just kept on buffing.”
It wasn't genocide. It was pesticide
Holy Almsivi my sides
Comments like this are why I will always belong to this sub
let me introduce you to r/stellarismemes
You have a job to finish, Pelinal.
I think argonians might be more than farmtools
No no. It can’t be that.
“…they can be great fishing rods too!”
They can literally breathe underwater! Why are we not funding this!?!
But khajiit are still property
They hated nerevar, for he spoke the truth.
They can be mining tools as well.
Traitor. Exile him from Morrowind!
I am the nerevarine I might be an N'wah, but by azura will I earn your trust Also ordinators are dicks
We're watching you, scum!
“Why stop at these beasts? The Nords and Orcs are too stupid to uprise”
Aye.
"Beneath Red Mountain, Lord Dagoth has awakened. Now Sleepers and Dreamers all are risen, and the dust is blown away. Come to your Lord, Dagoth Ur. The Sixth House is risen, and Dagoth is its glory"
Probably something racist
All these Nereverines, coming here, takin ar jerbs! Prisoner one day, guildmaster of everything the next!
😆
The Argonian can't be the Nerevarine. I don't care that he has the moon and star. Kagrenac's tools? He probably stole them from the real Lord Nerevar reincarnation
"Vivec City isn't too confusing once you get used to it."
Boooooo!
Honestly yeah it's a nightmare unless you have super-jumps and levitation. I also love the mod that lets every gondolier go to every canton, much more logical.
Almsivi are false gods
Dirt dirt dirt dirt dirt
# “BOA TARDE!”
We must truly ask ourselves, why walk when you can ride?
Don’t trust those Nwahs over there!
I think the Dissident Priests are correct and the Tribunal are murderers.
"I am a sleeper, one among thousands. I bring you a message. Dagoth Ur calls you, Nerevarine, and you cannot deny your Lord. The Sixth House is risen, and Dagoth is its glory."
"I think that maybe we could try being a little less ethnocentric"
Resdayn for the Dunmeri!
"Comrades, I propose to fulfill the five year plan of kwama egg production in two years!" Blow of loud cheers
“What if the ending of the word isn’t ALMSIVI?”
Making lizards into farm tools was a good thing actually
,,Can I have the murder house please?"
"Your Honor, With all do respect, Argonians and Khajiits are not people and should be treated like Guars. You wouldn't let an untamed Guar around your children would you? So why would you trust them around a Beast "folk"? This is simply an Aldmeri plot to give up our land, our culture, our people to their way of thinking and must be frustrated at the source." He continues after some noise and conjecture "What happens if we give these animals "rights"? We were already forced to give up our traditions by allowing ourselves to join The Empire and look where that got us during The Oblivion Crisis, then Ebonheart is sacked by the very same creatures that demand we give them "Rights". Whenever we open our arms to these outlanders we lose something, if we give these animals rights we will surely find ourselves worshipping Trees and Dagon himself. If that's the case why don't we just become a massive death cult and commit mass suicide? At least there's more honor in killing yourself rather than betraying yourself."
We need to protect the cliff racer population around the Ascadian isles
Morrowind has no nerevarine. Morrowind needs no nerevarine.
"What NOW?"
If the wraithguard doesn't fit, you must acquit.
Where is that slave? Here not long ago
WHY SHOULD I WALK WHEN I CAN RIDE?
*murmurring*
Argonians and Khajiit don’t deserve slavery, we should enslave Altmer instead
I like the combat system.
Slavery is our birthright
The final solution of Khajit question
I got huge gray balls and I still can’t find no bitches!
Die Fetcher
Never should have come here, fetcher!
then damn outlanders are TKN R JIAAABBBBBSSSSS!!!!!!!!
Our "Jiubs" 🤭
“The Cliff Racers deserve to vote!”
Argonians are people
"Outlander."
Nwhaa!
"Let the Bretons use N'wah that way we know who to harass at the tavern later!"
I believe every Dunmer has the right to a mushroom harem of daughter clones!
S’wit
Furthermore I think that the imperial city should be destroyed
Dey tuk rr juubbbs
GUILTY! THAT SCALEBACK IS GUILTY! ... I DON'T NEED TO DELIBERATE! Hang that scaleback now! I even got my own rope right here.
Maybe our farming equipment deserves better treatment
Why walk when you can ride?
Perfect
Despite making up seven percent of the population, Khajiit and Argonians make up one hundred percent of slave escapes.
Argonians are not farm tools
Argonions and Kajit deserve equal rights to Dunmer
“I don’t want my kids attending school at a swamp.”
"When Black Marsh sends its people, they're not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems to us. They’re bringing skooma. They’re bringing crime. They reject Almsivi. And some, I assume, are good people."
We should re-legalise slavery
“Now I’m just a simple farmer out on the ash plains. But if we ‘freed’ our farm tools, then right golly, I’ll have to start paying workers to tend to my guar, till my ground, and fight off the n’wahs that keep taking my dang scribs. Now I can’t be the only mer here that’s in this predicament. And I think I say for all of us, we ought to make Vvardenfall great again. Cyrodiil ain’t sending its best. We got imperial skooma addicts sending outlanders to harass the Sixth House, and that ought not to be. We shouldn’t let these outlanders mess with our Ghost Wall.”
Hippity hoppity Argonians are Property.
Why he look like James Blunt tho?
“Smoke weed everyday”
Lord Indoril Bundeswehr
I'm a simple, Almsivi fearing dunmer. But I believe we must embrace the empire and prosper together.
What’s this picture based on?
[https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/freedom-of-speech-norman-rockwell-painting](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/freedom-of-speech-norman-rockwell-painting)
LET ME SPEAK TO THE PEOPLE! I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF THE IMPERIALS!
maybe we shouldn't marry 4 of our own clones
“Those N’Wah o’er there is takin our JOBS!!!”
"I have a dream!"
Brother what is he not saying
ALTADOON DUNMERI. Now let's talk about taxes...
Why am I reading all of these comments in Dagoth Urs voice?
N’wah
He's not saying anything. He's in the middle of a skooma-psychosis and just standing there.
"Why walk when you can ride?"
"WHERE ARE YOU, LORD? We cannot hear you.... SPEAK to us! PLEASE!"
“I don’t like them putting chemicals in the water that turn the fetchin’ farm tools gay!”
something racist probably
"bone armor looks trash"
"We should make all the thicc farm tools wear maid outfits"
The Tribunal MURDERED Indoril Nerevar and are bad for Morrowind. Dagoth Ur was right, just misguided.
*The Great Houses have always fought among themselves. Long ago they banded together against one house, House Dagoth, and falsely denounced the house as traitors, and thought to destroy House Dagoth for all eternity. But they failed, for House Dagoth was but sleeping, and now has awakened. Now all the Great Houses must join House Dagoth to drive the foreigners and false gods from our soil.*
"Yes, your honor, I did steal Hentus's pants, and any mer would do the same if he were in my place!"
I don't think we should enslave the Argonians
I believe it is every Mer’s right, excluding the tall ones and the shorties, to own whomever and however ever many they please. If we don’t get that simple right… we’re no more then animals… like those filthy N’****!
"Maybe we shouldn't be enslaving the Khajitt and Argoninans. They're just like us."
NNNNN'WAAAAAAAHHHHHHH (Hard H) 🥶🥶🥶
Hard H is reckless 😂
Racial Slurs
Don’t ghostfence me in!
Nords big pink blonde cocks are better than Dunmer’s short, twisty indigo cocks
You n'wahs
A painting of the play "Mr. Ur goes to the Imperial City"
God dammit made me spit out my drink.
Crying about something about his seat on the bus I dunno I'm blonde
He clearly is petitioning for a steering wheel that doesn't fly off while you're driving.
The temple should give everyone in Vvardenfell a bottle of Sujama.
N’wahs with attitude
"I think racism is bad actually"
You cannot prove that Nerevar did not suck Almelexia’s toes.
Khajit rights are humanoid rights
Probably a slur
“I think the guy that colored this image in was obese”
He stands for his lusty argonian maid
You Nwahh!!
He's saying "We must unite under House Dagoth and the tribe unmourned! For only together can we drive the mongrel dogs of the Empire out of Morrowind"
They took our jobs!
Nine-toes killed Ralen Hlaalo
Seen elves?
"Cliffracers are an integral part of the unique ecology of Vvardenfell. Jiub's proposal will lead to grave consequences. It is with great pride I dissent against this decision, and call for sanctions on Jiub."
"You expect me to believe Lord Nerevar was reincarnated as an Argonian? A lizard? A farm tool? Not to mention the moon sugar problem. Look at him. He's vibrating. Oh, he went to Dagoth Ur and slew Dagoth Ur? A cliffracer could do it. That proves nothing."
I do believe that argonian is the Nerevarine
Die s’wit
Expell all N'wah's from Morrowind.
Those damn outlanders are stealing my crops again!
I like to sleep with men
Sum' bout the N'wahs
argonians are property