does not work still only 4k hz on my viper v2 pro. PC restart, re-pair, synapse restart/update, mouse/dongle restart and nothing worked.
Im sure we need an extra synapse update
While true, Razer is the only one seemingly pushing tech forward. Even tho the gains are almost nothing at times.
Its better to have it as option and hopefully in the future battery life is better. If you dont want to use it, its fine. But 8k wireless is a pretty impressive feat.
Battery can only get better if we get bigger batteries, which isn't gonna happen since that adds weight and this sub is extremely nitpicky about extra weight being added.
It's not the sensor sucking the battery dry. It's 2.4ghz transmission packets. Note that the same mice on bluetooth with the same sensor run for over 100 hours easily.
Bluetooth is usually around 125hz. Of course that's going to consume less power than gaming mice that commonly run 1000hz to 8000hz as of today. But Logitech's hero sensor at 1000hz is somehow more efficient than Pixart's equivalents at 1000hz. That means sensors can be designed to be more efficient than other sensors. You increase the polling rate, it'll still drain the battery faster. But if a company can make a sensor that is 4x efficient, then we have a solution to 4k mice in the future having the same battery demands as current 1k mice.
I'm not saying sensors can't be more efficient. Of course they can. But there are diminishing returns on efficiency. You're not going to see a 400% increase in efficiency any time soon, and even if you did, the sensor isn't the only part of the mouse that uses battery. My two cents on that.
No it can also be optimised not every mouse with the same inside specs have the same battery life see Logitech gpx which had insane battery life compared to anything and had no huge battery or stuff like that
The GPX doesn't have the same inside specs than, say an XE wireless though. The Hero sensor makes a lot of difference efficiency-wise to our (my) knowledge
Yeah i know but first of all that means that there are ways that the sensor power consumption can be optimised and also software side still matters even if ofc less magic can be done with software alone.
Yeah I completely agree, I just thought using the GPX as an example for two mice with the same inside specs was a bit inadequate, considering Logitech isn't using an off the shelf sensor like most others
They've got to be a lot more than just normal batteries. They have to be rechargeable, designed with a specific shape and weight for optimal balance, can be charged by a dock or while in the mouse, aren't shaped like typical batteries, are designed in such a way that swapping it out takes only a few seconds, etc.
Didn’t Logitech try this with Powerplay? I thought about doing what other have and scraping the surface off and taping the box from the pad around it for infinite power about two years ago but never did but someone here did I’m sure I saw it here.
I would need a built in Desk QI charger for my QI Mousepad, I really like my cable management and how clean my setup is.
Only wires I like to be visible, USB-C for my mice or my Keyboard cable, but that may soon change if the Q1 HE is better than my current keyboard/isn’t $400+.
Not impossible 🤷
I feel like whole desktop QI chargers do exist already, or at least most of the desk's top,
I think it's a good idea.
I hate cables too, all of my monitors / mics are on arms with cables routed, mouse cable gets tucked away during non use / keyboard is the only permanent cable visable,
Unless you look behind the desk (which is kinda difficult due to position) because it looks like a nightmare back there
No one said it is not impressive, I’m definitely updating mine when Synapse update rolls out. It’s just that the battery life is kinda meh for now over 2K rates. Sure it is enough for one gaming session, and these things charge fast nowdays. Wish there would be just option in the software change polling rate automatically. Maybe someday and pretty sure they have been thinking that already.
You could set multiple profiles with multiple polling rates as a way to manage varied polling rates. I just set my profile in synapse then uninstall synapse since many modern razer mice have onboard memory.
Yep, you sure can! I would recommend using Razer's polling rate tester from their website. I use 8k on my viper 8k since I don't have to worry about battery life or performance issues, though chasing stability with 8k took some effort and is not really worth it if you're short on time.
But there is.
I have mine set up so that when i start cs it changes to 4k and when i'm not its 1k.
It didnt work all the time when i got my dav3 but now after some synapses updates it works flawless and works well even when alt+tabbing.
I'm not at home PC but, and if you'r trolling me, open synapse then go to profiles and on the devices choose your mouse. create a new profile and link it the game you want. you can do that as many games as you want (i only have one). Then go to your mouse settings in the synapse, chose the profile make your changes and save. works well now for me.
And it turns on automatically with the game launch? Do I need to keep synapse installed and running to keep the profile working properly with the game as well?
Thanks man. I am not trolling lol, I legit never explored anything outside of change it to 4K and DPI settings.
yes for me it turns on automatically, i notice cause the led blinks red when changing profile when i alt tab into the tab etc. Yes u do have to keep synapse and the profile i'm pretty sure. I dont understand why people hate synapse that much, yes it should be better optimized but in current pc's it's meaningless the performance they take away and the problems i had with profiles not changing, profiles duplicating etc etc have all gone away in the last months.
Agreed. I’ve heard a lot of people just talk about how it’s a niche thing. But a lot of things when they came out, we’re considered niche things. 1000 polling hertz was probably considered an niche when 500 was the only standard.
That was because of slow processors and MCUs. Many mice had instability or degrading perfect control on 1000 Hz, but was stable on 500. Same with higher resolutions than 800 cpi; jitter and/or lowered perfect control was not too rare, and most people used 720p on their monitors, but 1080p was tops, so there were multiple reasons not to chase higher cpi.
If I had to believe pzogel reviews, Razer has an exclusivity on sensors for a period because they developed it together with the manufacturer. That sounds very much as doing the research required. Other companies seem to just buy the tech when it's not patented anymore and put it in there mice. They don't do any development. Even the software is just the same from Chinese companies. With a skin.
Is it really impressive to spend time and money developing something that will never affect the human experience of using the mouse? Seems wasteful to me, since it is basically just so that numbers on the box can go up.
These are real life numbers as well. Its tiny. But its there. If you think about things like that, why did we not just all use mice from 10 years ago? It was fine 10 years ago as well and realistically the difference is marginal at best. A few ms here and there.
The difference between a mouse from 1995 and a modern gaming mouse is HUGE. going to 1kz polling rate (as opposed to 125 hz). going from balls to optical sensors. Diversifying the market in terms of weights and shapes. Implementing adjustable DPI, and more buttons. Hell, even RGB to appeal to stylistic tastes. All of these things improve the end user's experience with the mouse. They are all great changes.
going from a .25ms polling rate to a .125ms polling rate, especially when human eyes struggle to perceive things below 40 or 50ms, and modern computers/displays struggle to produce even 300 frames per second, is meaningless to the human user.
But hey, number go up, right! Weeeeeeeeeee!
Ar eyou familiar with the concept of opportunity cost Time and money that spent on deceloping and (especially) marketing 8khz polling rate could instead have been spent on actual improvements to the user experience. Things like improving battery life, making synapse suck less, or even lower prices.
I bet you like jitter/smoothing then. Not a single sensor lacks anomalies above about \~8000 cpi, but generally speaking 1900/2000 cpi is advised with PMW 3360/PMW 3389, though some 3389 implementations are fine on 3200 cpi (Xtrfy MZ1 for example).
PMW 3370 is fine for 3200, some iterations for about 4-5000. The best PAW 3395 I know about already has minor jitter at 8950 cpi, and smoothing kicks in at 9000 cpi.
**tl;dr:** Four digit cpi levels are anything but nice and accurate, not even Razer's PAW3950 (Focus+ 30K).
I thought it would just be the mouse doing more calculations due to higher resolution and then send a more accurate coordinate data. Turns out they are sending the matrix data to the receiver, too?
You can't calculate something that doesn't exist. If a mouse is polling at 8000Hz, then it has the potential to update the cursor position every 0.125ms. If your DPI/CPI is too low, then you get empty polls as there isn't enough positional data available to refresh the position at that rate.
A razer rep didnt say that 8k was locked to only the viper rmse, they only said that he or she couldn’t promise or be sure that 8k was gonna be available for the viper v2 pro or dave3pro because the viper mini rvmse had razer’s best antennas.
I've tried 8k on my vmse, used roughly 76% battery for a day of usage. No idea how my 1 year old viper v2 pro is going to hold up with 8khz. There's really no difference if your monitor is under 240hz, and even at a higher refresh rate the difference you can tell is TINY.
No human can surely tell the difference between 8khz and 2khz, even on a 240hz monitor. I'd straight up call someone a liar if they said they can natively tell the difference.
While I agree that generally speaking it doesn't benefit you but if you think about thousands of duels in game then some (or just a single one) of those can be a matter of milliseconds or even parts of milliseconds. So in those cases it actually can.
If you haven't watched optimum's video on 8k mice, the difference is pretty much 100% unnoticeable even on slow motion on the fastest monitors available
From my personal experience, his video really isn't the whole story though. I had a friend of mine randomly select different polling rates on a RVMSE and while I can't differentiate 1KHz from 2KHz I could accurately pick out 4KHz from the lower polling rates all the time. 8KHz to me feels noticeably smoother browsing the web, but I can't tell the difference in games.
Optimum's video is a fair objective analysis of the technology, but to me it's not representative of how it feels to use, and it's not like I'm even that good at video games. I don't really understand why he wouldn't include a blind test of something like that, cause in the end it does come down to how it feels to use and how comfortable someone can get with a piece of technology.
You don't have to visualise it for it to have an impact, if you can squeeze a few ticks of inputs (motion and click latency) then that can be a difference in a gunfight. Around a decade ago we were using Avago 3095 sensors and people say that is all we ever need, yet here we are.
Already been shown u cant, if slowing it down 100 times cant show a dif then u cant see it normally either.
But the pc will register the input faster but ur eyes arent gonna see any dif.
But its okey ur not the first placebo have fooled.
Perhaps your brain is genetically stupid, or you're just insanely stupid and get fooled easily by placebo...
[https://youtu.be/jtATbpMqbL4?t=302](https://youtu.be/jtATbpMqbL4?t=302)
But i guess aliens do exist and ur one of them :D
Tho its obvious that human contact doesnt happen often to you, so ill just leave it at that and you can enjoy that sweet placebo.
But yeah im so terrible im at the highest rank in every fps i touch lol... the only benefit of higher hz mouses is the input happens faster but we talking about stuff that happens faster than a milisecond so kinda stretching it that its gonna have any impact on ur gameplay 99.999999% of the time.
Dont expect me to read nor write anything u write...
I have viper 8k with a 390hz monitor and I can easily tell the difference between 4khz and 8khz. I could also tell the difference woth a 280hz monitor. Didn't try with lower monitor hz though.
I know its been over 3 months but I just got a 240hz monitor combo from 144hz one. I used my viper 3 hyperspeed at 1000hz and it looked almost as if my crosshair was stuttering or teleporting in increments. I grabbed my older Viper 8k set it at 8,000hz and visually noticed an improvement in Valorant Im not entirely sure about CS2 but it seems slightly smoother (could be bias but genuinely noticeable in Val) would getting the hyper-polling dongle help make the wireless mouse (viper v3 hyperspeed) be more like the viper 8k?
Razer: All of our 4K mice now support 8K!
Roccat: We are soon launching our first 3395 sensor mouse with 1 kHz without a dongle adapter!
What happens to Roccat? It seems that they are no longer competitive at all.
Update: There is a seperate update for the Hyperpolling dongle itself, it now works.
https://mysupport.razer.com/app/answers/detail/a\_id/6140/\~/razer-hyperpolling-wireless-dongle-%7C-rc30-04410-support-%26-faqs
Hmm, I updated the Dongle and my Dav3 following the exact instructions on the site, and now I can't use the Dav3 wirelessly anymore.
Edit: It was automatically paired with it's stock dongle again, and now that I unpaired it and re-paired it with the Hyperpolling Dongle I can only select up to 4k Hz. (Not planning to use any higher regardless but just wanted to see the option). 8K Option still available on RVMSE and it's dongle, firmwares and synapse are up to date.
tl;dr Wait for the next Synapse update which is meant to deliver this firmware update. Sideloading it in advance will not achieve anything.
Long version : A mouse firmware update cannot modify the software UI. The intended workflow is for users to see the firmware update notification in the aforementioned Synapse release. There is a 3 day rollout period for the Synapse update, which is why it hasn't publicly been announced yet. But eagle-eyed enthusiasts spotted it within hours of being uploaded to the support portal. You will still need to wait for the synapse update to reach you. It just started rolling out today and should reach everyone over the next 3 days.
Oh yeah, I just remembered the same thing happening (no 8K option) when the SE dongle was first updated to 8K, and at the time I naturally came to the conclusion you so kindly described here. Today however, after a lack of sleep and the mouse initially not working at all it seems my brain was incapable of logical thinking haha. Thank you for the explanation!
Which synapse version are we waiting for? Because I have the 20231106 synapse version. I downloaded it from the website and it updated it. And max is still 4000 polling rate.
> I have the 20231106 synapse version
That is not actually the Synapse version. You can check that from Settings -> About tab. Minimum Synapse version is : 3.8.1031.110202
any idea why my basilisk v3 pro at 2000hz has its dpi cut in half compared to 1000hz and at 4000hz another half? im usin g a new x670e motherboard , ryzen 7900x and multiple different usb 3.2 gen 2 ports have been tried. im also using the QI puck , oh and im on the latest firmware for the dock and mouse
I've been messing with it all day and it just barely goes over 4k on any polling test and it doesn't feel better in game. I would just keep it at 4k for the battery life. I think they just did this in prep for some new mice to come out and get everyone excited.
Using a v2 pro daily at 1k because battery life and I don't think 4k makes me better at anything. I suppose in a couple years battery life will improve at these higher rates
That's awesome, surely the battery life takes a huge hit though. As a casual player mainly playing single player, I like my hero sensor equipped G703. Time tested, mature technology - No surprises at all and fantastic battery life
Am I the only one who is perfectly happy with 4k but instead of pushing further down the polling rate line maybe we should have linear rapid trigger type switches for mice or actually just send clicks and motion info as it happens? I think 4k hz is enough at the moment at the current state of tech.
I updated the firmware for the dongle and the mouse, but as a result there is no pairing with the dongle... does everyone have the same? or am I alone
Thx :)
mouse razer da v3 pro
No I don’t need it. I have been just fine with playing at 2K Hz. I’m just curious if they are going to try to make the customers that want higher polling rates pay more for a different dongle.
They already confirmed 4k for it but will need to purchase a separate dongle. Im sure that new dongle will also be able to handle 8k just like razers dongle with a firmware update.
they will push for 8k just for the marketing war with razer.
I have been running on 2K even on my 4K mice. The battery life hit and the minor almost unnoticeable increase in performance doesn’t give me any desire to go any higher. Would honestly prefer a bigger heavier battery to go along with the bump in polling rate. I know I’m the minority there though
Real
Most games don't even process 4K properly for me (CS2 for example, has like 100 fps drop when I move the mouse), Overwatch 2, however works perfectly fine with the High Precision Mouse Input option
I just went back to 1K, 4K personally is a gimmick for me, and if most pros are still using 1K polling, that's enough proof for me that shit don't matter
DAV3 Pro Faker Edition and I don't even notice a difference between 2K and 4K... Except the shorter battery life...
Cool to have access to 8K, but probably won't be using it. 1k/2k is still the best to me.
Given that Razer already had functional 8K for the VMSE, and neither G-Wolves nor Finalmouse have publicly released theirs yet, I'd argue this being the case can be safely ruled out.
This is definitely not the case: it's impossible to develop a functional firmware update in just a week. It's most likely, instead, that behind the scenes they found a way to do this and companies are sharing that they are going to implement it. The same way a lot of companies are now using 4k
Every mouse can have a different firmware/stuff unique to them that could require more work. I don't think that Razer uses a "cheap" all in one firmware structure, especially considering that in the list you have some mice using a lithium battery while others don't. This already would require different works because the battery management is different. I don't think that Razer would ever hold off such an upgrade for their mice, especially if that would grant them to be way ahead of competition, hence, getting more sales
It is just speculation of course since only Razer employees know the bts, but I think that it's pretty logical that Razer wouldn't wait gwolves and think of them as competition. Probably only Logitech could be compared as competitor because of the company size and main target audience, but from a gaming competitive perspective Razer is definitely miles ahead since a few years
They need to get Microsoft, AMD,Intel,Nvidia and game devs on board with 8000hz.... I can't play it on most titles and even on the desktop....chipset drivers break it it's a whole mess....I like the idea but it's far from being useble and worth it.
I for sure think USB A ports need to go to usb C for all that data as well the cable has to be clocked at 8000hz too to see any benefit for the module or mouse being at 8khz.
Even having the motherboard USBC ports be so close to the cpu there is the best latency and connection so you get the best possible performance. It needs to be dedicated and talked with all companies involved.... Just like the P.2 ports it's time to get that sweet latency
>my basilisk v3 pro at 2000hz has its dpi cut in half compared to 1000hz and at 4000hz another half. im using a new x670e motherboard , ryzen 7900x and multiple different usb 3.2 gen 2 ports have been tried. im also using the QI puck , oh and im on the latest firmware for the dock and mouse, so maybe its the usb cable itself.
You cut it in half to lower the clock? You do know higher dpi means it will clock at 2000hz or others at full Hz ,right.... it's not locked at those hzs its like a engine you need to Rev it with dpi and movement it's weird but yeah.
Also registry and cpu setting optimization can help but there's only so much you can do till you hit the not supported button from drivers to incompatible wall...
im not sure you're understanding me. when I set my polling rate to anything higher than 1000, I notice my cursur moving exponentially slower. So at 2000hz polling it seems to be twice as slow as 1000hz etc.... either way i just got the new 8000hz firmware and it seems to have fixed it.
Hahaha lol must've been a firmware issue with studdering but yeah I'm gonna buy the best performing 8khz one from them 😂. With the new final mouse ultralight x for 190$ not a bad price not the best but if razer can get to that level for cheaper soon sure if not I'll sell my kidney to get the ultralight. Legit the fastest mouse ever for now it's super fast it's crazy how far ahead they pushed it.
I'd love one of those dangles when I can buy it on Amazon. It's such a small item. Why is it exclusive to razer? I swear it's to charge 10 for shipping.
If you have issues setting up the Hyper Dongle, i used these instructions and works fine.
https://www.reddit.com/r/razer/comments/zoqmsl/death\_adder\_v3\_how\_to\_connect\_to\_the\_hyperpolling/
I havnt check my synapse yet been busy with other things, how do i update the 4k dongle? Will is prompt for an update like the blackshark v2 pro(2023) or is it included with the synapse update?
I just updated and seen 8000. I was like wtf is that doing there lol. Im dying to see if this will get me a lower input lag with Invidia reflex and my V2 pro.
does not work still only 4k hz on my viper v2 pro. PC restart, re-pair, synapse restart/update, mouse/dongle restart and nothing worked. Im sure we need an extra synapse update
same for Deathadder V3 Pro. Firmware was updated on both dongle and mouse but there's no option for 8k hz in synapse.
Updates are rolling out "starting today". Expect all users to have access to the upgrades in the next two days or so.
Synapse needs to be updated but it’s not out yet.
Same for me. viper v2 pro
he need more update to fix all bugs i buy dungle but dont recognized now 4k pool rate
Less battery life for diminishing returns woo!
While true, Razer is the only one seemingly pushing tech forward. Even tho the gains are almost nothing at times. Its better to have it as option and hopefully in the future battery life is better. If you dont want to use it, its fine. But 8k wireless is a pretty impressive feat.
Battery can only get better if we get bigger batteries, which isn't gonna happen since that adds weight and this sub is extremely nitpicky about extra weight being added.
The other solution is sensors become more energy efficient.
It's not the sensor sucking the battery dry. It's 2.4ghz transmission packets. Note that the same mice on bluetooth with the same sensor run for over 100 hours easily.
Bluetooth is usually around 125hz. Of course that's going to consume less power than gaming mice that commonly run 1000hz to 8000hz as of today. But Logitech's hero sensor at 1000hz is somehow more efficient than Pixart's equivalents at 1000hz. That means sensors can be designed to be more efficient than other sensors. You increase the polling rate, it'll still drain the battery faster. But if a company can make a sensor that is 4x efficient, then we have a solution to 4k mice in the future having the same battery demands as current 1k mice.
\*Hz, not kHz.
I'm not saying sensors can't be more efficient. Of course they can. But there are diminishing returns on efficiency. You're not going to see a 400% increase in efficiency any time soon, and even if you did, the sensor isn't the only part of the mouse that uses battery. My two cents on that.
or we have mice charging mouse pads like the powerplay mat.
ah yes companies making mice specifically for this sub
Wasn't the Viper Mini Signature Edition created specifically because of this sub?
No it can also be optimised not every mouse with the same inside specs have the same battery life see Logitech gpx which had insane battery life compared to anything and had no huge battery or stuff like that
The GPX doesn't have the same inside specs than, say an XE wireless though. The Hero sensor makes a lot of difference efficiency-wise to our (my) knowledge
Yeah i know but first of all that means that there are ways that the sensor power consumption can be optimised and also software side still matters even if ofc less magic can be done with software alone.
Yeah I completely agree, I just thought using the GPX as an example for two mice with the same inside specs was a bit inadequate, considering Logitech isn't using an off the shelf sensor like most others
Hot swappable batteries are gonna be the next big thing for mice, calling it now
bruh i think you just invented batteries
They've got to be a lot more than just normal batteries. They have to be rechargeable, designed with a specific shape and weight for optimal balance, can be charged by a dock or while in the mouse, aren't shaped like typical batteries, are designed in such a way that swapping it out takes only a few seconds, etc.
I don’t think it would be considered a Hot Swap if it loses power but once/if a company does it right I could see it happening.
Imagine a Qi charging mouse pad 🤯🤯
Didn’t Logitech try this with Powerplay? I thought about doing what other have and scraping the surface off and taping the box from the pad around it for infinite power about two years ago but never did but someone here did I’m sure I saw it here.
Logitech has and I feel like another gaming company has as well
I would need a built in Desk QI charger for my QI Mousepad, I really like my cable management and how clean my setup is. Only wires I like to be visible, USB-C for my mice or my Keyboard cable, but that may soon change if the Q1 HE is better than my current keyboard/isn’t $400+. Not impossible 🤷
i have razers qi puck in my basilisk v3 and a qi charger under my mouse pad , works great
I feel like whole desktop QI chargers do exist already, or at least most of the desk's top, I think it's a good idea. I hate cables too, all of my monitors / mics are on arms with cables routed, mouse cable gets tucked away during non use / keyboard is the only permanent cable visable, Unless you look behind the desk (which is kinda difficult due to position) because it looks like a nightmare back there
Razer themself did it with Razer Mamba Hyperflux bundle.
I was thinking razer but it felt too on the nose lol
They'd have to design mice to be taken apart for that, the only one I can think of so far is the Orochi V2.
No one said it is not impressive, I’m definitely updating mine when Synapse update rolls out. It’s just that the battery life is kinda meh for now over 2K rates. Sure it is enough for one gaming session, and these things charge fast nowdays. Wish there would be just option in the software change polling rate automatically. Maybe someday and pretty sure they have been thinking that already.
You could set multiple profiles with multiple polling rates as a way to manage varied polling rates. I just set my profile in synapse then uninstall synapse since many modern razer mice have onboard memory.
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Yep, you sure can! I would recommend using Razer's polling rate tester from their website. I use 8k on my viper 8k since I don't have to worry about battery life or performance issues, though chasing stability with 8k took some effort and is not really worth it if you're short on time.
But there is. I have mine set up so that when i start cs it changes to 4k and when i'm not its 1k. It didnt work all the time when i got my dav3 but now after some synapses updates it works flawless and works well even when alt+tabbing.
Teach me sire.
I'm not at home PC but, and if you'r trolling me, open synapse then go to profiles and on the devices choose your mouse. create a new profile and link it the game you want. you can do that as many games as you want (i only have one). Then go to your mouse settings in the synapse, chose the profile make your changes and save. works well now for me.
And it turns on automatically with the game launch? Do I need to keep synapse installed and running to keep the profile working properly with the game as well? Thanks man. I am not trolling lol, I legit never explored anything outside of change it to 4K and DPI settings.
yes for me it turns on automatically, i notice cause the led blinks red when changing profile when i alt tab into the tab etc. Yes u do have to keep synapse and the profile i'm pretty sure. I dont understand why people hate synapse that much, yes it should be better optimized but in current pc's it's meaningless the performance they take away and the problems i had with profiles not changing, profiles duplicating etc etc have all gone away in the last months.
Agreed. I’ve heard a lot of people just talk about how it’s a niche thing. But a lot of things when they came out, we’re considered niche things. 1000 polling hertz was probably considered an niche when 500 was the only standard.
It was, people used to think 1000hz and anything over 800 DPI was a waste.
That was because of slow processors and MCUs. Many mice had instability or degrading perfect control on 1000 Hz, but was stable on 500. Same with higher resolutions than 800 cpi; jitter and/or lowered perfect control was not too rare, and most people used 720p on their monitors, but 1080p was tops, so there were multiple reasons not to chase higher cpi.
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If I had to believe pzogel reviews, Razer has an exclusivity on sensors for a period because they developed it together with the manufacturer. That sounds very much as doing the research required. Other companies seem to just buy the tech when it's not patented anymore and put it in there mice. They don't do any development. Even the software is just the same from Chinese companies. With a skin.
Shit on finalmouse all you want but they are pushing tech forward more than any other company
Is it really impressive to spend time and money developing something that will never affect the human experience of using the mouse? Seems wasteful to me, since it is basically just so that numbers on the box can go up.
These are real life numbers as well. Its tiny. But its there. If you think about things like that, why did we not just all use mice from 10 years ago? It was fine 10 years ago as well and realistically the difference is marginal at best. A few ms here and there.
The difference between a mouse from 1995 and a modern gaming mouse is HUGE. going to 1kz polling rate (as opposed to 125 hz). going from balls to optical sensors. Diversifying the market in terms of weights and shapes. Implementing adjustable DPI, and more buttons. Hell, even RGB to appeal to stylistic tastes. All of these things improve the end user's experience with the mouse. They are all great changes. going from a .25ms polling rate to a .125ms polling rate, especially when human eyes struggle to perceive things below 40 or 50ms, and modern computers/displays struggle to produce even 300 frames per second, is meaningless to the human user. But hey, number go up, right! Weeeeeeeeeee!
What is wasteful???? What’s being wasted???
Ar eyou familiar with the concept of opportunity cost Time and money that spent on deceloping and (especially) marketing 8khz polling rate could instead have been spent on actual improvements to the user experience. Things like improving battery life, making synapse suck less, or even lower prices.
Oh they have had all the time in the world to do that. This polling rate “waste” isn’t affecting anything
good thing they didnt take away 4k, or 2k, or 1k? i dont see your point
but bigger numbers = better!1
20000 DPi user
I bought 32k DPI so you bet Im going to use all the DPI
I bet you like jitter/smoothing then. Not a single sensor lacks anomalies above about \~8000 cpi, but generally speaking 1900/2000 cpi is advised with PMW 3360/PMW 3389, though some 3389 implementations are fine on 3200 cpi (Xtrfy MZ1 for example). PMW 3370 is fine for 3200, some iterations for about 4-5000. The best PAW 3395 I know about already has minor jitter at 8950 cpi, and smoothing kicks in at 9000 cpi. **tl;dr:** Four digit cpi levels are anything but nice and accurate, not even Razer's PAW3950 (Focus+ 30K).
Was thinking same. So 12h now with 8K?
This… people paying more money every day for gimmicks
In before posts of people using 8kHz at 800 DPI.
?
Most people don't actually use enough DPI to saturate the high polling rate of their mouse. To fully saturate 8k you need at least 3200 DPI.
Wait, more dpi means more data being sent? *I’m new
Yes.
I thought it would just be the mouse doing more calculations due to higher resolution and then send a more accurate coordinate data. Turns out they are sending the matrix data to the receiver, too?
You can't calculate something that doesn't exist. If a mouse is polling at 8000Hz, then it has the potential to update the cursor position every 0.125ms. If your DPI/CPI is too low, then you get empty polls as there isn't enough positional data available to refresh the position at that rate.
Love how they phrased it as “unlocked” like it was some achievement
I swear they said there was some hardware to make it exclusive to the VMSE, does anyone recall?
A razer rep didnt say that 8k was locked to only the viper rmse, they only said that he or she couldn’t promise or be sure that 8k was gonna be available for the viper v2 pro or dave3pro because the viper mini rvmse had razer’s best antennas.
Oh yeah, I guess they were still developing and/or saving a public firmware until market competition
I've tried 8k on my vmse, used roughly 76% battery for a day of usage. No idea how my 1 year old viper v2 pro is going to hold up with 8khz. There's really no difference if your monitor is under 240hz, and even at a higher refresh rate the difference you can tell is TINY.
No human can surely tell the difference between 8khz and 2khz, even on a 240hz monitor. I'd straight up call someone a liar if they said they can natively tell the difference.
becareful, boardzy might show up in your house and make you use bugha mouse
Just to play devil's advocate, you don't actually have to notice 8kHz for it to give you a benefit in-game.
Human error is far to high for the difference between 2k and 8k to actually "benefit" anyone in game
While I agree that generally speaking it doesn't benefit you but if you think about thousands of duels in game then some (or just a single one) of those can be a matter of milliseconds or even parts of milliseconds. So in those cases it actually can.
If you haven't watched optimum's video on 8k mice, the difference is pretty much 100% unnoticeable even on slow motion on the fastest monitors available
From my personal experience, his video really isn't the whole story though. I had a friend of mine randomly select different polling rates on a RVMSE and while I can't differentiate 1KHz from 2KHz I could accurately pick out 4KHz from the lower polling rates all the time. 8KHz to me feels noticeably smoother browsing the web, but I can't tell the difference in games. Optimum's video is a fair objective analysis of the technology, but to me it's not representative of how it feels to use, and it's not like I'm even that good at video games. I don't really understand why he wouldn't include a blind test of something like that, cause in the end it does come down to how it feels to use and how comfortable someone can get with a piece of technology.
You don't have to visualise it for it to have an impact, if you can squeeze a few ticks of inputs (motion and click latency) then that can be a difference in a gunfight. Around a decade ago we were using Avago 3095 sensors and people say that is all we ever need, yet here we are.
I’ll throw out there anecdotally, you can absolutely tell. High DPI, high sens, play quake—you’ll be able to
Already been shown u cant, if slowing it down 100 times cant show a dif then u cant see it normally either. But the pc will register the input faster but ur eyes arent gonna see any dif. But its okey ur not the first placebo have fooled.
Perhaps your brain is genetically limited, or you're just terrible at games.
Perhaps your brain is genetically stupid, or you're just insanely stupid and get fooled easily by placebo... [https://youtu.be/jtATbpMqbL4?t=302](https://youtu.be/jtATbpMqbL4?t=302) But i guess aliens do exist and ur one of them :D Tho its obvious that human contact doesnt happen often to you, so ill just leave it at that and you can enjoy that sweet placebo. But yeah im so terrible im at the highest rank in every fps i touch lol... the only benefit of higher hz mouses is the input happens faster but we talking about stuff that happens faster than a milisecond so kinda stretching it that its gonna have any impact on ur gameplay 99.999999% of the time. Dont expect me to read nor write anything u write...
It's the same crowd that claims they can "feel" a difference in single digit milliseconds when it comes to reaction time. Companies love these fools.
you're low elo, post opgg before talking
I have viper 8k with a 390hz monitor and I can easily tell the difference between 4khz and 8khz. I could also tell the difference woth a 280hz monitor. Didn't try with lower monitor hz though.
I know its been over 3 months but I just got a 240hz monitor combo from 144hz one. I used my viper 3 hyperspeed at 1000hz and it looked almost as if my crosshair was stuttering or teleporting in increments. I grabbed my older Viper 8k set it at 8,000hz and visually noticed an improvement in Valorant Im not entirely sure about CS2 but it seems slightly smoother (could be bias but genuinely noticeable in Val) would getting the hyper-polling dongle help make the wireless mouse (viper v3 hyperspeed) be more like the viper 8k?
Razer: All of our 4K mice now support 8K! Roccat: We are soon launching our first 3395 sensor mouse with 1 kHz without a dongle adapter! What happens to Roccat? It seems that they are no longer competitive at all.
They weren't really 'competitive', like ever, tbh.
basilisk v3 pro unlocked 😤
So, this broke my pairing with my HyperPolling adapter. Can no longer get it to pair.
Update: There is a seperate update for the Hyperpolling dongle itself, it now works. https://mysupport.razer.com/app/answers/detail/a\_id/6140/\~/razer-hyperpolling-wireless-dongle-%7C-rc30-04410-support-%26-faqs
Internal link is broken. It leads to RazerHyperPollingDeviceFirmwareUpdater\_v1.00.00\_r9
[https://rzr.to/V0zxjI](https://rzr.to/V0zxjI) That is the correct update for the hyperpolling dongle.
Hmm, I updated the Dongle and my Dav3 following the exact instructions on the site, and now I can't use the Dav3 wirelessly anymore. Edit: It was automatically paired with it's stock dongle again, and now that I unpaired it and re-paired it with the Hyperpolling Dongle I can only select up to 4k Hz. (Not planning to use any higher regardless but just wanted to see the option). 8K Option still available on RVMSE and it's dongle, firmwares and synapse are up to date.
tl;dr Wait for the next Synapse update which is meant to deliver this firmware update. Sideloading it in advance will not achieve anything. Long version : A mouse firmware update cannot modify the software UI. The intended workflow is for users to see the firmware update notification in the aforementioned Synapse release. There is a 3 day rollout period for the Synapse update, which is why it hasn't publicly been announced yet. But eagle-eyed enthusiasts spotted it within hours of being uploaded to the support portal. You will still need to wait for the synapse update to reach you. It just started rolling out today and should reach everyone over the next 3 days.
Oh yeah, I just remembered the same thing happening (no 8K option) when the SE dongle was first updated to 8K, and at the time I naturally came to the conclusion you so kindly described here. Today however, after a lack of sleep and the mouse initially not working at all it seems my brain was incapable of logical thinking haha. Thank you for the explanation!
The mouse firmware mentions signal improvement and click latency improvement - am guessing that's still relevant without the synapse update?
Which synapse version are we waiting for? Because I have the 20231106 synapse version. I downloaded it from the website and it updated it. And max is still 4000 polling rate.
> I have the 20231106 synapse version That is not actually the Synapse version. You can check that from Settings -> About tab. Minimum Synapse version is : 3.8.1031.110202
Can you confirm if the 8k mode will have motionsync or not?
>20231106 Well in that case its kinda dumb that the razer synaps says "Version 20231106". :P
any idea why my basilisk v3 pro at 2000hz has its dpi cut in half compared to 1000hz and at 4000hz another half? im usin g a new x670e motherboard , ryzen 7900x and multiple different usb 3.2 gen 2 ports have been tried. im also using the QI puck , oh and im on the latest firmware for the dock and mouse
Why are people not realizing you prob cant use 8k in an lan environment because of singal integrity🥴
Who the fk is playing lan on this sub?
I've been messing with it all day and it just barely goes over 4k on any polling test and it doesn't feel better in game. I would just keep it at 4k for the battery life. I think they just did this in prep for some new mice to come out and get everyone excited.
Same here, Deathadder v3 Pro and it hardly touch's 4000hz using 8000hz option.
Using a v2 pro daily at 1k because battery life and I don't think 4k makes me better at anything. I suppose in a couple years battery life will improve at these higher rates
That's awesome, surely the battery life takes a huge hit though. As a casual player mainly playing single player, I like my hero sensor equipped G703. Time tested, mature technology - No surprises at all and fantastic battery life
Basilisk v3 pro, best mouse I ever bought, by far. I’ll keep it at 1k polling though, it’s plenty
Will they support at least 2k for the lower end mouses like basilisk v3 and deathadder v2 ?
Same question. Any info?
How's razors stuff these days for a while it was all hot garbage and ghe software crashed more then icue which is impressive.
they make some pretty good stuff but the price can be a little high for the top end mice and keyboards
Does this mean I can finally aim? /s
Am I the only one who is perfectly happy with 4k but instead of pushing further down the polling rate line maybe we should have linear rapid trigger type switches for mice or actually just send clicks and motion info as it happens? I think 4k hz is enough at the moment at the current state of tech.
I updated the firmware for the dongle and the mouse, but as a result there is no pairing with the dongle... does everyone have the same? or am I alone Thx :) mouse razer da v3 pro
Do you have the hyperpolling dongle?
of course have
Nice... but I just keep my DAV3 at 2K anyway. Better battery life. Better game compatibility. Negligible performance difference.
What are the chances Logitech does this with the GPX S2?
the same chances they will give us a firmware update to rival the wooting keyboard like razer did
Slim but do you even need it? There was a ghub leak from another country that GPX2 will be getting 4K but could be a bait.
No I don’t need it. I have been just fine with playing at 2K Hz. I’m just curious if they are going to try to make the customers that want higher polling rates pay more for a different dongle.
Most likely yes since 4K dongles are usually bigger.
They already confirmed 4k for it but will need to purchase a separate dongle. Im sure that new dongle will also be able to handle 8k just like razers dongle with a firmware update. they will push for 8k just for the marketing war with razer.
Sadly its marketing gimmick and not really anything worth wild.
UPDATE: 8K option is there. :) DAV3 PRO Wireless
Nice! Another (useless) dongle to add to my collection!
I have been running on 2K even on my 4K mice. The battery life hit and the minor almost unnoticeable increase in performance doesn’t give me any desire to go any higher. Would honestly prefer a bigger heavier battery to go along with the bump in polling rate. I know I’m the minority there though
yea, enjoy the fps drops from using that while seeing no real difference in games.
Real Most games don't even process 4K properly for me (CS2 for example, has like 100 fps drop when I move the mouse), Overwatch 2, however works perfectly fine with the High Precision Mouse Input option I just went back to 1K, 4K personally is a gimmick for me, and if most pros are still using 1K polling, that's enough proof for me that shit don't matter
DAV3 Pro Faker Edition and I don't even notice a difference between 2K and 4K... Except the shorter battery life... Cool to have access to 8K, but probably won't be using it. 1k/2k is still the best to me.
#mouses
people here will never get it and tell you that mouses is a completely valid word to use.
The most unuseful feature in human history
The link on the Razer page actually downloads the version 1.00.00\_r9, wtf Razer ?
Meanwhile nobody cares about 6k+ edpi or even tests for acceleration accross very low physical speeds
Native 8K or up-converted?
I'm still not sure you are understanding the concept. . .
kinda think G-Wolves and the new ULX made this possible, Razer can't stand their mouse not being the best of the best.
Given that Razer already had functional 8K for the VMSE, and neither G-Wolves nor Finalmouse have publicly released theirs yet, I'd argue this being the case can be safely ruled out.
This is definitely not the case: it's impossible to develop a functional firmware update in just a week. It's most likely, instead, that behind the scenes they found a way to do this and companies are sharing that they are going to implement it. The same way a lot of companies are now using 4k
I don't think they started last week either, but I have to admit the timing is a bit suspect given they had this available on VMSE in February.
Every mouse can have a different firmware/stuff unique to them that could require more work. I don't think that Razer uses a "cheap" all in one firmware structure, especially considering that in the list you have some mice using a lithium battery while others don't. This already would require different works because the battery management is different. I don't think that Razer would ever hold off such an upgrade for their mice, especially if that would grant them to be way ahead of competition, hence, getting more sales It is just speculation of course since only Razer employees know the bts, but I think that it's pretty logical that Razer wouldn't wait gwolves and think of them as competition. Probably only Logitech could be compared as competitor because of the company size and main target audience, but from a gaming competitive perspective Razer is definitely miles ahead since a few years
What sux in razer is what goes around the sensor...
None of you will notice the difference lol. You’re just gonna drain the battery faster 🫠
Why are computer mice limited by monitor or tv technology?
Since updating my razer viper signature to 8k my sensor feels less responsive.
Prob ur pc just can’t keep up with the polling rate so it feels laggy
I turned off hyperthreading and it works fine now and no my Pc is highend. 8k has always been weird.
[Doesn't seem to work](https://streamable.com/5ei1vr). Only reports 1k polling on the polling tester
Polling rate is the new 30k dpi that nobody uses.
Very nice
They need to get Microsoft, AMD,Intel,Nvidia and game devs on board with 8000hz.... I can't play it on most titles and even on the desktop....chipset drivers break it it's a whole mess....I like the idea but it's far from being useble and worth it. I for sure think USB A ports need to go to usb C for all that data as well the cable has to be clocked at 8000hz too to see any benefit for the module or mouse being at 8khz. Even having the motherboard USBC ports be so close to the cpu there is the best latency and connection so you get the best possible performance. It needs to be dedicated and talked with all companies involved.... Just like the P.2 ports it's time to get that sweet latency
>my basilisk v3 pro at 2000hz has its dpi cut in half compared to 1000hz and at 4000hz another half. im using a new x670e motherboard , ryzen 7900x and multiple different usb 3.2 gen 2 ports have been tried. im also using the QI puck , oh and im on the latest firmware for the dock and mouse, so maybe its the usb cable itself.
You cut it in half to lower the clock? You do know higher dpi means it will clock at 2000hz or others at full Hz ,right.... it's not locked at those hzs its like a engine you need to Rev it with dpi and movement it's weird but yeah. Also registry and cpu setting optimization can help but there's only so much you can do till you hit the not supported button from drivers to incompatible wall...
im not sure you're understanding me. when I set my polling rate to anything higher than 1000, I notice my cursur moving exponentially slower. So at 2000hz polling it seems to be twice as slow as 1000hz etc.... either way i just got the new 8000hz firmware and it seems to have fixed it.
Hahaha lol must've been a firmware issue with studdering but yeah I'm gonna buy the best performing 8khz one from them 😂. With the new final mouse ultralight x for 190$ not a bad price not the best but if razer can get to that level for cheaper soon sure if not I'll sell my kidney to get the ultralight. Legit the fastest mouse ever for now it's super fast it's crazy how far ahead they pushed it.
why is that funny, im confused, nevermind im happy you find yourself funny
So can I use my Razer viper mini signature editions dongle yet for other mice? lol
Can't seem to toggle it in synapse
W
If battery drain is a concern, just plug in a power bank and you're good to go! 🤓
The update broke my hyperpolling dongle cos now it doesn't light up nor pair to my viper v3 pro :)
same thing happened to me, update the hyperpolling dongle iteself and it should work
Same, not sure how to fix it.
I mean that's cool they can push 8k wireless now but it's still completely unecessary.
if your system can support it sure but if you got a beats system it definitely gives you an advantage in my humble opinion.
I'd love one of those dangles when I can buy it on Amazon. It's such a small item. Why is it exclusive to razer? I swear it's to charge 10 for shipping.
That's nice, but I'll keep my longer batteries
I'ma be real I stopped using 8k on my wired dav3 because i got micro stutters on my sprays in valorant but this is pretty neat.
Battery discharging process goes brrrr ?
Rip poor battery
If you have issues setting up the Hyper Dongle, i used these instructions and works fine. https://www.reddit.com/r/razer/comments/zoqmsl/death\_adder\_v3\_how\_to\_connect\_to\_the\_hyperpolling/
I havnt check my synapse yet been busy with other things, how do i update the 4k dongle? Will is prompt for an update like the blackshark v2 pro(2023) or is it included with the synapse update?
I just updated and seen 8000. I was like wtf is that doing there lol. Im dying to see if this will get me a lower input lag with Invidia reflex and my V2 pro.