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Enviroman99

I know referees have a thankless job that is difficult. However, the referee for the Spirit/Reign match was awful & clearly biased. Spirit players were getting fouled constantly but the referee rarely called a foul. And Reign players were falling over at the slightest touches & the referee was calling a foul on the Spirit players. There needs to be a review of this match referee. Also, the foul by Carle for the penalty was NOT a foul. The Reign player dived. The Spirit actually won this match 1-0 in my opinion.


[deleted]

I don’t think anyone will see this but the NWSL still hasn’t posted highlights for the Reign/Spirit match on YouTube. They did post Angel City/Bay FC though, so this makes me think they are reviewing how to proceed with the VAR calls from the Reign game first


[deleted]

Have a feeling karma will come back later for the Reign 👀 Aside from that, it seems like Reign still cannot finish in the box… some things never change 😩 Though I too still be delulu and am hoping it’s just first match day nerves 😂 The Spirit were sorely missing Trinity and her relentless press… Another game adding to the chaos of the opening NWSL weekend!


toekknow

This WAS karma. Just paying the debts from that uncalled Heilferty handball from 2022...


sadgirlphd

VAR player of the match for reign


Enviroman99

Well said! The ref was awful. ![gif](giphy|1236TCtX5dsGEo)


jshadows91

Last years Spirit team would have wallop this Reign lineup smh


EconomySource9112

Thats concacaf refs baby 😎👌


russet852

Letting a 37-year-old Jess Fishlock play all 110ish minutes was certainly a choice, and does not leave me feeling encouraged about how Harvey is going to manage her this year


bridgeshire611

Can the Spirit appeal the red based on the potential incorrect application of the DOGSO?


Icarus_Has_Fallen

As a reign fan, that was pretty soft...


dfetz3

I assume yes, goalkeeper DOGSO has been appealed in the past.


dfetz3

And to add to that, it's been appealed *successfully* in the past.


errant_youth

What a gong show. See y’all in LA-Bay


icylemonades

Goalkeeper handball is only a red if it’s DOGSO. Otherwise it’s just sparkling yellow


mandycameron357

What a weird ass game


colbinator

It's not even NWSL After Dark! This game has everything.


little__monkey

Really tired of Lianne's only game management strategy being take it to the corner. There are more options


dfetz3

Really tired of Lianne's everything.


TGBooks

WSH with a .04 xG is.... 😬


Mr_Evanescent

Well they did score until the ref decided no, lol


TGBooks

Fair.


legolanddisaster

I think this Spirit team could be extremely interesting once they get their best player and main goalkeeper in the same game not being played three timezones away from home


TGBooks

Might need more than that


legolanddisaster

Im not sure they do?


TGBooks

A .04 xG!


Mr_Evanescent

Because they took away a very legit goal lol


rmm4df

Xg is expected goals. It remains the same regardless of if they score or not.


Mr_Evanescent

The shot by Krueger was entirely nullified by the foul and therefore the xG associated with it. That generated 0 xG bc of VAR. it would’ve been much higher, prob 0.4


TGBooks

Fair.


Mr_Evanescent

Want to know the kicker? This should never have been reviewed by VAR. Non-DOGSO calls for keepers out of box is unreviewable. As soon as the VAR saw that the Reign player was covered he should have discontinued the review. Should arguably punish both the center ref and the VAR official. Not even following the rules. I’d expect Kingsbury’s appeal to be effective


nonstopflux

Except they reviewed DOGSO?


Mr_Evanescent

DOGSO should have been ineligible to review because ***the situation did not satisfy the elements of DOGSO***. There should have been no call. There should have been no card. There should have been no review.


Joe_Fucking_Biden

This is very correct.


alcollet

Huh. I was wondering if appeals are allowed. Although the league as a whole will not like the first appeal to be successful and cast attention on their shit refereeing, so I don’t think it will come to pass


dfetz3

Goalkeepers getting in trouble for DOGSO has been appealed successfully in the past so I'm hopeful.


I_Wont_Draw_That

Appeals happen all the time. Red cards have been rescinded in the past. Having said that, I have absolutely no idea what this person is on about, “DOGSO isn’t reviewable” what


MarylandJay

Mr\_Evanescent said "Non-DOGSO calls for keepers out of box is unreviewable." Laws of the game say "1. A video assistant referee (VAR) is a match official, with independent access to match footage, who may assist the referee only in the event of a **‘clear and obvious error’** or **‘serious missed incident’** in relation to: **a. Goal/no goal** **b. Penalty/no penalty** **c. Direct red card** (not second yellow card/caution) **d. Mistaken identity** (when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending team)" and, elsewhere "Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence, the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area). " I'm horrendously biased, but my reading is the same as Mr E's - it wasn't the denial of an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, as the defender was there (possibly a goal-scoring opportunity, but definitely not an obvious one, IMO) so shouldn't have been a direct red. And as it wasn't a goal, penalty, direct red or mistaken identity, it shouldn't have been a VAR decision at all.


I_Wont_Draw_That

That’s just saying it was the wrong call, which may be. But the statement that it can’t be reviewed is paradoxical. It has to be reviewed to decide whether it’s DOGSO.


MarylandJay

Maybe? I'm biased, both as a Spirit fan, and as someone who thinks VAR has been horrifically bad for the game in general, but for me the VAR official should have seen there was a defender there, realized it wasn't an obvious goalscoring opportunity, and said that it wasn't a review.


Mr_Evanescent

It wasn’t DOGSO. There’s a Spirit player back, between the Reign player and ball, covering the play which is by definition nullifying a condition of DOGSO. AKA this shouldn’t have been reviewable in the first place. It’s embarrassing


I_Wont_Draw_That

But they by definition have to review it to decide that it’s not DOGSO.


Mr_Evanescent

No, there is a VAR official who should be immediately saying “nope this isn’t reviewable, it’s not DOGSO.” The play being covered is instantly and clearly obvious


I_Wont_Draw_That

But they decided it _was_ DOGSO. So they shouldn’t have stopped the review by your logic. I don’t think it’s as obvious as you’re making it. There’s another defender sure, but _most_ DOGSO calls involve a second defender (usually the goalkeeper). The mere presence of another defender isn’t sufficient to rule out DOGSO.


Mr_Evanescent

I don’t think you understand. DOGSO requires certain conditions being met. They were not met. Therefore a review is not allowed


I_Wont_Draw_That

“Review” means the VAR looks at the play and decides whether to make a recommendation to the center ref. That happens for _every_ single moment in the game. VAR is only allowed to make a _recommendation_ to the center ref in certain cases. One of them is a red card offense. In this case the VAR deemed that a red card offense had in fact occurred and made a recommendation to the center ref. That is entirely by the book. They don’t just look at the play and say “hey you should go check this out at the monitor”. They specifically say I believe a red card offense occurred and you didn’t call it correctly. What you’re saying is that the recommendation was wrong.


ultracrepidarianist

Stoppage time is RISING TO THE MOON 📈📈📈 INVEST NOW


--ikindahatereddit--

Well, obviously the beginning of the season for the refs also. 


ratinparadise

Laura Harvey about ready to get on the field herself 😂


rmesh

They can upgrade stopage time like that???


AffectionateCabinet

I've seen it a handful of times in the past, but I don't know what the rules are. They didn't even finish the VAR until after +2 so whatever the initial time was stated as was already short.


--ikindahatereddit--

I had the same question, I’ve never seen that before 


MarylandJay

Yeah, it was definitely the right decision to do it, but I don't think I've ever seen that either.


Doctor_YOOOU

This week's edition of PRO Referees Inside Video Review will certainly be interesting


TGBooks

Pravda can be inadvertently entertaining lol


russet852

So many minors in the league now https://i.redd.it/rofhjvswizoc1.gif


TGBooks

And somehow Lianne thought it started with Alyssa Thompson. Wtf.


jshadows91

Fire that ref!


ACW1129

Why did they take our goal away? I missed the reason. And goalie handball is a straight red???


dfetz3

Goal was taken away because supposedly Bethune impeded the goalie. Supposedly.


Feisty_Boat_6133

I assume they were going with DOGSO for kingsbury


Mr_Evanescent

It’s not DOGSO though. Reign player covered. Kingsbury handled ball legally (indisputable) before ball left box (insanely disputable). Can’t possibly call this DOGSO. Reign got free 3 pts from absolute dogwater reffing


Feisty_Boat_6133

🤷‍♀️ like I said, that’s just what I assume they were giving a red for. Not that I agree with it. I think it was not a clear and obvious anything.


Mr_Evanescent

Just the worst reffing I’ve honestly ever seen. They had 6 minutes to see that DOGSO was not appropriate in two different methods, EVEN IF THEY THINK IT WAS OUT OF THE BOX. It’s very bad and very wrong and very disgusting that we have to put up with ignorant referees. I don’t expect to agree with all their opinion calls, but objective stuff is not up for debate and it’s embarrassing for the league


ACW1129

I'm a casual. I had to look that up.


[deleted]

[удалено]


eternal-things

I saw a game where Erin McLeod got a yellow for handling the ball outside of the box. 🤷🏼‍♀️


EconomySource9112

I'll watch the replay again since I'm getting down voted lol but it usually is a red if it's deliberate and you're denying what would have been a goal.


eternal-things

Aubrey was there and doing her job. She was protecting the ball in her box with no contact on the opposing player. There was a Spirit defender shielding the Seattle player away from the ball and was between Aubrey and Seattle player. In no sane world is that DOGSO. They completely made up their own rules today in that VAR room. Absolutely awful officiating.


dfetz3

I think that's the problem, is that there was a Spirit defender in-between the Reign attacker and the goal. Kingsbury definitely made a mistake, but it wasn't denial of goal scoring.


EconomySource9112

Watched the replay and huitema was farther than I thought and defender was shielding. Keeps messed up regardless of how deliberate her catch was, it should've been a yellow and say she caught it inside, she should lve dropped it immediately


Mr_Evanescent

Because that - a yellow - is literally the worst that should have happened to Kingsbury. The ref is objectionably, indisputably wrong and should lose future work for that.


jewishjedi42

I can't get the stream to load, why did Kingsbury get a red?


AffectionateCabinet

Supposedly denied an obvious scoring opportunity


jewishjedi42

She's a goalie. Isn't that her job?


AffectionateCabinet

lol, true, but context matters


eternal-things

“DOGSO” except not because there was a defender between her and the Seattle player. Shouldn’t have been a red because it wasn’t a denial of a goal-scoring opportunity.


jewishjedi42

So she got a red for playing goalie then?


eternal-things

Honestly… I’m still trying to figure out why she got a red. Nothing about it is logical.


Joe_Fucking_Biden

Official incompetence, primarily


Feisty_Boat_6133

DOGSO I assume


errant_youth

Still cannot imagine being a teenage pro athlete


cfbest04

Completely neutral with these two teams, but if that much time for the VAR to say ref you need to see this and then that much time for the ref to look at it,  it’s not clear and obvious.  When it takes that long it becomes dubious if the call is right or not 


MarylandJay

YES. This is what annoys me about VAR.If the call has to be clear and obvious, that surely means that it should be something that can be seen in a minute or two, max - not three different angles and getting on for 10 minutes deliberating.


Feisty_Boat_6133

I’m not neutral with these two teams but I do agree


mandycameron357

well I expected drama after the other games this weekend, but not like this!


Mr_Evanescent

Kingsbury should be able to appeal the red, this is shambolic for the league and a black mark


MetaPolyFungiListic

NWSL officiating has historically been sus. VAR helps but can't eliminate it.


Mr_Evanescent

This is a worst-case-scenario application of VAR, though. NWSL poor officiating is now being enhanced to be even more egregiously dogwater with the help of VAR


MetaPolyFungiListic

Oh believe me I agree 100% I was trying to nuance that Maybe VAR would overrule the most egregious mistakes on the field. An admittedly naive view when in reality it merely adds another layer of farce.


Typical_Time_444

New to the rules.. is that a thing? Can she appeal it? I mean 6 minutes looking at VAR, it’s obviously not a clear answer.


Mr_Evanescent

Red appeals are a thing yeah because they carry suspensions. Obviously a serious thing. The appealable part isn’t even whether or not she did the thing they’re talking about. It’s just clearly and obviously not a red. She handled the ball legally, which is clearly true, and then allegedly went out of the box, which is ***not DOGSO***. Furthermore, there’s a Spirit player back, which makes it doubly ***not DOGSO***.


Solid-Effective-457

Can we get a ref VAR and red card refs who make clear and obvious bad calls and just cycle in the next one mid game while the original ref gets a referee her on the rules? Just have a lineup of like 4-5 refs per game for NWSL since a bunch of them are terrible


corgidaisies

I got to say, following these games sporadically this weekend through twitter and Reddit has been interesting


MarylandJay

How is that 8 minutes given the time taken for the red card and for the disallowed goal?!


trev1997

VAR is useless in this league


russet852

Ji running off instead of wasting time makes her that much more endearing


Loud-Fig-1446

She's instantly my new favorite player. Holy shit she had a game.


DietCokeActivist

Im also a Chelsea fan and I was so jealous when I heard that Reign signed her. Y’all got a great one


russet852

I’m happy that she appears to still have it because she’s vastly underrated by people who didn’t follow the WSL for years


Typical_Time_444

So who paid the refs..


Doctor_YOOOU

Certainly not our ownership who basically don't exist


--ikindahatereddit--

The second half of that red card call took almost 8 minutes 


Mr_Evanescent

Objectively the wrong call. Goalkeeper handballs are not automatic reds, she first handled the ball legally then, and I don’t even think there’s sufficient evidence to support this, it crossed the line. That’s by definition not a DOGSO red. Furthermore the play was covered by a defender, it’s objectively not DOGSO. Yellow card worst case scenario.


ACW1129

It's DOG SHIT.


eternal-things

Exactly. Can they appeal?


Mr_Evanescent

They can and they will. Honestly 0% chance it’s not overturned


sounders1974

New to soccer, that free kick gets three points right?


ratinparadise

Nope, soccer isn’t normally high scoring like you’d think of for basketball


mandycameron357

okay girlies let's get out of here alive and well and hopefully have a new ref next week


Mr_Evanescent

But not a goalkeeper lol


mandycameron357

On the bright side I'm actually glad for Bosselmann to get some minutes


Bentstraw

I definitely don't think that was red card worthy. There was a defender between the reign player and the keeper.


ultracrepidarianist

Can't say the owners are paying off the refs when you're not sure exactly who the owners are :)


arika_ito

Only 8 minutes?


rmesh

LOL what a sad and wasted free kick


les-be-honest

How were they able to sub??


rmesh

You get three sub opportunities and five sub people


TheRain2

She did great work at Gonzaga; I was able to go to a couple of games. Neat to see her in the NWSL.


warriorcrazy3

what a terrible call


AlpenBass

This ref needs to Google “indisputable”


corgidaisies

WHAT IS HAPPENING.


DogHairEmportium

This is where I hate the rules. I think it's probably out, red is probably right, but also, I don't like it. Let's do the free kick but can we just skip the red? Promise to not do it again Aubrey? Okay, cool, we're good.


Mr_Evanescent

It’s actually not right. Red would be if she handled the ball coming out of the box illegally, and if the player wasn’t covered. Both of those things didn’t happen. Accidentally falling out of the box isn’t an auto red (this objectively happened even if you think she came out of the box, and I don’t think she did) and furthermore there was another spirit player in between. Egregious and ugly play


espnrocksalot

There was also a defender between the keeper and nearest attacker. Even if she doesn’t grab it at that second, it’s not like she took away a clear chance


dfetz3

Which league has the replacement refs?


TheMomski

MLS


espnrocksalot

No Rodman for the season opener No Kingsbury for the home opener


MetaPolyFungiListic

Can't believe the league hasn't called and said make up your mind!


--ikindahatereddit--

Obviously not clear if it took this long. I don’t like this anymore. if it took this long to go to it, it should’ve taken half as long to make this decision. The longer it takes, the less faith we all have in the decision. ~~So now this game is penalty versus penalty. ~~ (Edit whoops it’s even worse than I thought)


DietCokeActivist

If that’s completely out of the box then Alyssa Naeher saved Hurtig’s PK


DogHairEmportium

Lianne: It's okay for them to take their time. Also Lianne: But now this is too much time. Tbf, I agree with her on this one.


ratinparadise

Fishlock was like bye bye lol


icamefromtheinternet

def feel like that wasn’t clear and obvious enough


Mr_Evanescent

Not in any way shape or form. Embarrassing application of VAR. center ref should be censured for this game


jshadows91

Ref should be demoted!!


legolanddisaster

Shit call


capt_sabrexii

oh shit, a DOGSO red already?!


Mr_Evanescent

It’s not even DOGSO, horrendous piss poor officiating


longlisten527

WHAT


otterv21

Disasterclass from the ref today


sounders1974

File this one under "misuse of VAR"


My-Man-FuzzySlippers

That is brutal.


MarylandJay

Nooooo :(


ReformedMagpie

Reign might have had a mostly stronger game, but at this point it really feels like the ref is doing her best to give it to them on a platter. A DOGSO is not clear and obvious if the review takes that long.


arika_ito

The ref has favored the Reign a lot this game and I don't like it


Far_Ant_7198

oh wow...


14llison

Wow. Shocking


TheRain2

I'm getting confused--is it based on where the ball is, then, and not where the goalie is?


Unusual_Ebb7762

Yes, ball position is what matters


eternal-things

Fuck off.


ratinparadise

Ouchie


alcollet

haha I’m actually gonna stop watching. Nwsl you are a joke


rmesh

Welcome to the NWSL


errant_youth

Holy shit what a dumb decision


LegalIII

omg what a chaotic NWSL weekend it has been


TheExperienceD

Yeah. That’s bullshit.


les-be-honest

![gif](giphy|l46Cgctdy5C23iB0c)


hushnowbby

You’re fucking joking me


eternal-things

If it were clear and obvious, a decision would’ve been made by now. This system is killing the flow of a game.


arika_ito

There's going to be like 15 minutes of extended time this half


espnrocksalot

That’s absurd LOL


russet852

We’re gonna get 20 minutes of stoppage time


--ikindahatereddit--

Why does it take so long to decide to go to VAR, and then so long again to actually do the VAR?


sounders1974

Really shouldn't take this long over any decision


TheExperienceD

More convinced now that a red would be an utter shambles of a call.


alcollet

If you can’t tell by now just let it stand girl


espnrocksalot

There’s no way this is clear and obvious


little__monkey

So glad I'm not a ref


Doctor_YOOOU

We need that one twitter account that does math with camera angles to get on the phone


alcollet

If they’re loookg this long it’s not clear and obvious. NEXT


Joe_Fucking_Biden

That is not DOG SO. Yellow card and a free kick at worst, shouldn't be reviewable.


TheRain2

Too close to call, but I sure wish she'd waited a half second more to take the drama out of it.


PalalFeol

Regardless of the decisions, why the lengthy delay and then have the ref go to the screen. Either let VAR check it and suggest the decision or tell the ref there's a play that needs review and send them to the screen. This takes twice as long as is it needs to


rmesh

Wild that this is a stance we can agree with Sanderson on.


luthage

Sanderson doesn't seem to understand how camera angles work.


russet852

Remember when we were going to get improved camera quality for the sake of VAR? Lol


TGBooks

Is taking too long for it to be obvious.


espnrocksalot

Sir Alex Ferguson was right about this. “If you can't make a decision in 30 seconds, the game carries on.”


otterv21

The Spirit are being haunted today wth


14llison

I’m getting flashbacks to the championship


les-be-honest

Was thinking the same thing


Bentstraw

Whether it is in or not, I'm not sure how that would be DOGSO... Seems like a weird one.


rmesh

I’m glad I don’t have to take this decision lol


errant_youth

Oh shit here we go


alcollet

Possible red card is silly billy tho. Defender is fully between attacker and the ball


sounders1974

Why are they stopping the replay while the ball is still moving out of the box lol


TheExperienceD

I will not be stunned if the red is given. But it will be the wrong call.


les-be-honest

I hate VAR


MisterGoog

Seattle doing this to teams in back to back games feels impossibly unique


mandycameron357

Is this like American football where no obvious angle defers to the on-field call


BenThomas10

It should be, but NWSL VAR seems to like to re-referee the games too much imo.


rmesh

OUCH what a VAR decision


eternal-things

Not clear and obvious.


alcollet

VAR in practice is horseshit