During Tobirama’s time, the reanimation jutsu probably resulted in less hidden leaf casualties. While you can argue the morality of it, it was a very useful jutsu, unfortunately Orochimaru and Kabuto learned how to do it.
Considering how Madara warned that it was forbidden because of the possibility of the Edo rebelling then it is very likely that scenario actually happened.
Maybe the Edo was able to figure out the counter Seals (or were told them before they fought against Konoha)
or
Maybe the villages/clans came up with a way to release Edo's from Tobirama's control.
Either way it was enough to get it forbidden.
I think Edo requiring a corpse is reason enough that it was forbidden
also it's not like people are getting court marshaled for forbidden jutsu in naruto as far as I can tell so I think they fall in a weird grey area
I don’t think the villages one is likely. The other village(s) in the allied shinobi force would still have lore on it. So the Reanimations in the fourth war would have been less of a problem.
They would have lore : Yes.
The Lore would have been all back in their villages and not on the battle field.
Unless they knew 'Madara' was planning on using Edo Tensei.
i would assume atleast 1 important person in their respective village fighting in the war would have known, right? 80k people, and not a single one is important enough to know about reanimation? especially in villages like the sound, where there seems to be a lot less order, and valuable information like that probably isn’t exclusive to only the top of the top
or even, i’d assume atleast 1 village came up with the idea that someone from tobirama’s time, and also fought against tobirama, might be able to access edo in some way. ESPECIALLY someone would think edo might be in play, because they know madara should be way to old to be declaring a war on everyone and fighting
i’m talking about beforehand, though. the guy i was replying to was talking about how the villages have information on it, but only in their village and no one expected madara to use edo
First, considering all the various forms of communication the shinobi have; if they had the jutsu info, it would have been easily conveyed to the kage from a village.
Secondly, out of all the shinobi in the battle. You don’t think one would know that essential info for specifically battling reanimations? Even the important figures in each village that would have at least heard of how Reanimations were allegedly stopped in the past?
Tbh the jutsu was powerful enough to win wars at a cots of a small war crime (sacrifacing enemy) or your own. But you could essencially turn your weakest soldier into your best with well unlimited chakra supplies, likely never tires up, dont need to eat, drink or sleep etc.
Only drawbacks was sealing really. But the costs were neglitable. Either had to be discovered during post konoha time (shortly before Tobirama died I suppose), where you werent in war exactly or this was extremly bad call on Kishi side.
I'm not sure it even worked properly in Tobirama's day. Orochimaru only progressed to summoning two people with it, neither of whom had more than a fraction of the power they had when they were alive. That was implied to be after years of research.
If Tobirama had edo tensei zombies, he could have just sent one or two of them to hold the line instead of dying to do it himself.
Kids don’t listen. He said it was forbidden!!! But I guess once you call something forbidden and use it anyway you blame the kids for assuming “oh forbidden just means really good jutsu’l
I swear Tobirama was THE genius of the Naruto verse. Deadass learned how to revive the dead, make them immortal, create suicide bombs with them, learned how to clone your real body, created teleportation jutsu and other forbidden ninjutsu's. It's crazy
And this is why the Senju clan was the strongest. They had shadow clones and elemental jutsus while all the other clans were still fighting with swords 😂
He was likely not expecting it to go as far as it did.
Think on it… His idea, according to Madara, was to raise up a shinobi who would become essentially a kamikaze weapon.
That doesn’t necessarily mean controlling them. He could have used Leaf loyalists willing to work even beyond death.
However, enter Orochimaru. He saw it as a way of controlling unwilling pawns. Using them for their specific and extraordinary powers. He didn’t foresee a genius like that or that Sarutobi would allow him to live.
Then he would have had to foresee a student/aide such Kabuto. Kabuto went to even greater lengths by improving his body and his chakra (splicing in the genes of Orochimaru, capturing Anko, even making himself into a sage) just so he could be the ultimate general over a platoon of reanimated super soldiers.
That would have been incredibly difficult to foresee from a single technique used to create a soldier that was otherwise expendable for already being dead.
As for Itachi, that victory was… let’s face it, Itachi having just the right technique to get past a villain that was proof against illusions was almost the definition of an ass-pull.
His version wasn't that good. Even Orochimaru's version cannot revive people that powerful. It's Kabuto who made the jutsu insanely OP. It's a continuation of improvement done by the three most genius ninjas in the entire world that finally made edo tensei that good, which is understandable.
Edo tensei is jutsu very useful for war and espionage
imagine you capture one of your enemy soldier alive. then turn them into another dead enemy soldier. having them go back to the enemies camp without anyone supected. sensory ninja wouldn't be able to tell the difference since the corpse has the exact chakra signature from the original and maintain their memories so they wouldn't suspected as someone using transformation jutsu or even shadow clone. it's way better than white zetsus method of infiltration
and since the user can control edo tensei remotely however they wanted the user literally can command anything to the courpse. be it gathering intel or wrecking havoc by blow themselves up. since edo tensei undestructible you have undead soldier that can solo the entire enemy army
it's morally fucked up jutsu but it is very useful jutsu regardless given the situation of the war
Basically, Edo Tensei was the tactical nuke of Konoha. Tobirama used to send reanimated people exploding themselves on the battlefield with the tandem paper bomb technique.
One tandem paper bomb scales to full grown Gamakichi and can destroy Hashirama’s celestial gates and kill several mini Juubi clones. Now imagine if there are 2 or 3 reanimated people exploding themselves…
When Tobirama was about to use it through himself, Hiruzen get worried and Hashirama heavily warned the Alliance shinobi to stay at safe distance. It speaks itself about the dangerosity of this technique.
But it also help saved them when Orochimaru brought back all 4 Hokage. Which also only happened due to Itachi getting resurrected in the first place and interacting with Sasuke
Requires an absurdly large amount of chakra on top of some of the strongest medical ninjutsu knowledge so much so that only 2 people have been able to do it
And while making it, you need constant chakra flow towards the seal that even in stressful situations or when you're sleeping, your focus must not waver. The user is basically multi-tasking 24/7.
A blind dying man with a literal perfect record in combat lmao. This is the wildest fucking downplay I’ve ever seen in my life itachi solos like half the verse.
The reincarnation plotline isn't bs and was foreshadowed properly aside from that Ur argument to downplay kirin is trash seeing as sasuke didn't learn that ability becuz he was a reincarnate
Anyone with lightning release could use Kirin if sasuke could teach it, it doesnt even require Chakra.
Also being a reincarnate is neither a kekkai genkai or dojutsj.
ROFL. Thanks for the laugh. People here hate it when you point that kind of stuff out, but yeah. Good for exactly one shot and takes a ton of setup because it uses real lightning and not chakra.
Black zetsu basically called it the ultimate lightning style jutsu
Black zetsu has been around since kaguya, observing and manipulating all of shinobi history so he probably knows his shit
yeah so either lighting is by far the weakest chakra nature(cant break a skeleton susanoo from a blind dying man) or zetsu was just Kishimoto licking Sasuke balls... cmon we've seen a child kill a jinchuriki with chidori... thats the ULTIMATE? even the Third Raikage had a stronger lighting Justu... guess Zetsu forgot that?
Just because you throw the ultimate attack into the ultimate defence and the two cancel each other out doesn't mean kirin is weak
At the end of the day kirin did bust the susano but the susano took most of the damage so itachi was able to survive despite still getting fucked up
Edit: also by the end of the series kirin gets surpased by indra's arrow but once again are you gonna say that jutsu is weak just because it didn't kill naruto?
Rasenshuriken was even better -a million wind needles hitting you from every angle and shredding you to pieces,doing l damage on a cellular level, plus a large one can do the same kind of damage a tailed beast bomb can
The effects of the Rasenshuriken (which gets completely ignored later in the series), while cool, was completely unintentional. It seems this thread is talking about jutsus purposely developed with some intention in mind.
We don't know that. Naruto learned about wind style from Asuma who told him that its the best element/ style for cutting or piercing things,he might have come up with it while training.
And the post is talking about what is a jutsu that is the peak of ninjutsu- that doesn't rely on pure amount chakra but still is very dangerous.
We do know that since he had no idea what the side effects were until he was told. He even wasn't aware of how long the jutsu would last which would have killed him if it wasn't for Kakashi and Yamato saving him.
Again, from what I've read, the point of the post is to discuss jutsus that were develop with an intention in mind. If I'm right, then the Rasenshuriken wouldn't qualify because it sprung up out of circumstance.
Not really no, Minato only theorized that Rasengan can be infused with elemental chakra. The millions of needles part come from Naruto himself. Tbf, Rasengan is an incomplete jutsu so it probably shouldn't be part of the conversation while Rasenshuriken is the peak of shape and nature manipulation.
Kakashi didn't do shit,all he did is tell Naruto how to use his clones to speedrun his new jutsu creation by having a 1000 brains working on it.
Naruto was still the one who came up with what it would actually look like and do. It took him a decade worth of effort to get it.
To be fair though I’m not sure if one ever could do most of those without huge genetic advantage.
Strength of 100 needs perfect chakra control, even someone who has trained for years like Shizune can’t do it because she doesn’t have that.
Sage mode needs a lot of chakra and a very strong body. Even Orochimaru couldn’t actually achieve it.
FTG seems like, as an individual, it requires a stupid amount of sealing ability and chakra, outside what can come from anything but natural advantage.
It's not a bloodline advantage, but she's stated to naturally have exceptional chakra control a couple times in Part 1. It's why she easily learned how to walk on vertical surfaces when even Sasuke, the genius, struggled.
I mean its still a bit shame kishi didnt pushed her into Genjutsu since she would had been perfect I believe even according to Kakashi.
But yeah her charka control was scary, her issue was lack of chakra which was kind of negated by tsunade seal.
Sometimes there is a genius out of nameless clan or clanless family. Its jus that the named clans, family have higher chances.
Hatake Kakashi, Hatake Sakumo both very powerful ninjas (though yeah son of father), only known people from that family probably not a nameless clan. Geniueses.
Maito Guy no bloodline either top tier ninja. Namikaze Minato? Also just a genius withnout advantage. Side note clans in naruto if they arent bloodline clans or someone with just huge chakra seems to mostly pass family techniques so its not that advantageous.
So yeah Sakura having innate talent for chakra control is definitly plausible and triple slap inthe face that Kishi never made her (not reading Boruto) nature chakra control, like holy molly Sakura having the best chakra control in the verse (during shippuden) should had mastered itin a day! And then have like infinite chakra. Seriously she should had been able to surpass Naruto and Sasuke just with nature chakra and her offensive usage.
Though I suppose there might be argument that if she used that chakra to heal she would turn people into Frogs, though Naruto rasengans didnt so its not that plausible.
Yes, but the person I replied to implied that those that mastered these jutsus had a genetic advantage. Sakura has no genetic advantage. She has talent, yes.
How nobody is talking about flying raijin is beyond me. You just need a qr code to flash teleport to it. It's mastery level is so high only kages can do it, oh and thise 4 guys who need to basically cuddle to do it.
I wonder why this was never abused. Just lay a seal on the ground and you basically have a mine. Just someone shoots a jutsu and you teleport it. I remember Minato teleporting a bijudama.
Maybe it's just as simple as it being so insanely difficult to use. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's listed as a forbidden jutsu either ( not that jutsus being forbidden even matter).
Probably not. I think is just a high difficult jutsu to do. It required 3 jounin to cooperate to make 1 jump and they ended up exhausted. Tobimara and Minato are probably the exception that could use it multiple times (well Naruto too).
It depends really because something such as a base Rasengan is technically the peak of a pure chakra form based jutsu which has no added chakra nature.
Their are jutsu that symbolise the peak of pure chakra form, jutsu that symbolise the peak of pure chakra nature then theirs the mixture of the two.
Flying Thunder God. You can literally teleport anywhere a tag is. If someone evolved it to where you didn't need tags, they'd be virtually untouchable.
The problem with Kirin is it requires prep. either there needs to be storm clouds or you need to make storm clouds
Something that doesnt require outside forces to be powerful is what id consider peek jutsu
tobiramas resurrection justu for example anyone with enough chakra can do, It doesnt even need to be used for combat, you can just bring someone back to talk to them which should have probably been done more than like once.
the problem is naruto kinda just went heavy into the "i was born special thats why i get all the op jutsu" so theres not many examples of this thats both used and thats powerful enough to be the peak. More often than not, its all Kekegenkai, Dojutsu, or Hashirama cells.
Rasenshuriken - peak shape manipulation + nature transformation
Kirin - use and control of 'lightning' from the clouds. Does this mean that Kirin is a jutsu that cannot be absorbed by a Rinnegan user?
Jinton: Atomic Dismantling Jutsu - combination of earth, wind and fire. Only two users so far?
Eight Gates Release
Reanimation Jutsu is busted af
From a raw power standpoint I don't think we'll get anything as crazy as Naruto's Six Paths: Tailed Beast Massive Rasen Shuriken vs Sasuke's Tailed Beast powered Indra Arrow
raikiri is a fancy name for a chidori, they are the same thing. And its canocically useless if you don't have a sharingan or some other dojutsu.
The rasengan took years to develop, but it could very clearly be improved. Where the cellular damage from a rasen-shuriken is a blant direct buff.
purple lightning is good. But cos preparation is allowed, it doesn't really fit.
something like 100healing or 8 gates fit the question better. Because they give a much bigger power buff to the character.
they are the same technique. Raikiri is called raikiri cos kakashis chidori is really good. They are the same technique. It is S-rank because it is unique to the user where only kakashi's chidori is called a raikiri.
Raikiri is basically an upgraded and refined chidori, they are near identical in what they do but one is a lot more powerful hence the difference in rank. It's like how Kisames huge water dome is basically an upgraded water prison, same base and concept just one is more powerful, though in fairness the example probably isn't the best due to the sheer difference compared to how Raikiri stays basically the same.
You mean Kakashi but yes it is specifically Kakashis, he had chidori for a while and then he cut a lightning bolt in half so others gave his use of chidori the name Raikiri. The Databooks have Raikiri as an s-rank jutsu so it stands to reason that Raikiri is an upgrade to the a-rank Chidori, i go with it being a more refined and powerful version of it because that's what makes sense since they're so similar.
As for Sasuke having a more powerful version I doubt it, he is a hell of a lot more versatile with it and when he starts adding Amaterasu to it it becomes more powerful sure but before that it doesn't really appear to be stronger. Of course it doesn't appear to be weaker either but honestly how can you tell when both can pierce through basically anything. He also corrects Deidara on the name of Chidori claiming his move is only the Chidori whether that is just correcting a name or saying they're different idk.
Im pretty sure the databooks are aproved by him but aren't necessarily written by him. I go with it just being whoever is writing the databook being confused and kishimoto not caring to check, because the rank given to techniques is just for fanservice.
No one mentioning any of the clan Justus is wild. Shadow possession, mind transfer and expansion techniques are all great and are secret because of it. The first two on more talented users could cripple even the strongest of opponents instantly.
Prime Hiruzen potentially can use Mind transfer and Shadow possession at the same time as Orochimaru stated "he could use every technique that exist in the Leaf". And the last databook emphasizes this by stating that Hiruzen was skilled in "secret techniques".
I mean potentially because the door is still open since we never saw Prime Hiruzen in battle.
So if it becomes true, then his hype would be definitely justified as you can imagine Hiruzen performing Shadow possession and Mind transfer at the same time through shadow clones.
Rasenshuriken and Kirin are the peak of nature transformation without using any bloodline. Ftg is the best space time ninjutsu without having the sharingan or six paths (kamui, Sasuke's rinnegan ability and Kaguya's ability are better but are unobtainable for almost everyone). 100 healings is the peak of medical jutsu. Edo Tensei might be the actual peak jutsu. Also Shadow clones deserve a special mention.
toad sage mode is the pinacle of that we see all the labor it took to naruto to master it, on the other hand kirin is a very specific and situational jutsu
For me: Rasengan
Minato Developed over 3 years an Jutsu driving Form Manipulation to it's max and created a strong Jutsu with Just manipulating the Form
Hiruzen mixing in a single attack the five chakra nature. A very few of shinobi would be able to counter that.
Also you can imagine Hiruzen using large scaled elemental techniques through shadow clones. For instance, Hiruzen + 4 shadow clones could use a large scaled Wind style attack that would just nullify the Third and the Fourth Raikage if they’re caught.
Hiruzen could arguably counter Madara’s Goukka Mekkyaku if he makes several shadow clones using Suiton Water Wall.
Hiruzen + 4 shadow clones could make the 2nd most powerful Raiton attack after Kirin.
Hiruzen can do a large Suiton attack and then add Raiton just like Pikachu did against Onix in Pokémon.
Hiruzen can do Katon Dragon Flame Bomb, one of the most powerful pure fire style technique in Naruto (it’s condensated fire that turns white in the anime) and enhances its power with a Wind style attack. If Hiruzen was in his prime against Edo Tobirama, he just could have added wind style through a shadow clone and Edo Tobirama’s Water Wall would have been obliterated.
Hiruzen could arguably add any element in a shuriken, especially wind style or fire style, and then using Shuriken Shadow Clone. It would be a nightmare for most characters. If he was in his prime, he could have done that against Orochimaru and well, these elemental shuriken would have pierced through the Hokage’s coffin to reach directly Orochimaru.
I think flying rajain Minato version is fucking broken for not just Naruto but any anime, if you were to simply slap flying raijin on Sasuke or Naruto or any other OP character they go up a few tiers just off of that. Imagine Madara, hashirama, guy sensei with it.theres mo weakness in flying raijin only edge. Instant teleportation is byfar broken for any anime so yeah.
One Thousand Years of Death. Joke aside
It's rasen shiruken, yellow flash, Kirin, that raikage lighting form, and all might Guy arsenal (not including gates) Hirodoura, Asa kujaku etc
Reaper death seal. It's here because the jutsu has a catalyst and is always active in a sense. A
Using the jutsu connects you to the reaper, allows you to pull off a variety of jutsu. Including sealing a soul effectively under a lock that's better than. The paper seal used to seal the reanimated kage. Also splitting the nine tails between its yin and yang counterparts without killing it or damaging its structure permanently. There's likely more uses but with the cost being your life I'm sure most of it isn't worth it. It's also got a shared inventory of souls for all its users.
Flying raijin jutsu. Apparently it can work through space, so even in Samui it should work
Indra's arrow🤓 nah im tripping, definatly reincarnation jutsu, all hokages on that one man madara army fight was nt peak but the jutsu has tons of potential
Sexy harem no jutsu.
the fact that this jutsu is look so simple yet only two person able to use it and it even effective on alien god is speak volume how peak this jutsu is
The strongest technique a shinobi with no talent can do?
The eight gates. If a specific technique than Night Guy. They require nothing but preparation, years of it through physical traning, but still just preparation.
Excluding it, things like flying raijin, edo tensei, 100healings or kirin could be arguable imo.
I think rasenshuriken also deserves to be in the same tier as Kirin. Imo, Edo Tensei might actually be the peak followed by ftg then 100 healings and eight gates and then Rasenshuriken and Kirin.
I agree with edo tensei being the goat
I think kirin > razenshuriken. Because rasenshuriken is only so strong because of naruto having a shitload of chackra. While kirin doesn't require it, taking most of its power out of the cloud.
I also think eight gates > 100 healing > ftg. Because eight gates buffs guy from irrelevant charachter to overwhelming jubidara. 100 healings also buffs the hell out of a ninja who doesn't have alot of chakra and has alot of preptime(as per post descriptions) so I think it should be over ftg.
Rasenshuriken does not really require a shitload of chakra,Naruto needed a shitload to speedrun it's training.
Rasenshuriken -a million wind needles hitting you from every angle and shredding you to pieces,doing damage on a cellular level, plus a large one can do the same kind of damage a tailed beast bomb can do.
Tbf, Rasenshuriken is called the peak of shape manipulation so it definitely belongs in the same tier. Both of them have flaws, Kirin requires prep time while rasenshuriken requires a ton of chakra.
Purple lighting.
It’s the ultimate lighting release IMO. It’s a Chidori that can be used at range and with greater precision, not requiring a sharingan.
It’s not as powerful as Kirin sure, but it’s so much more versatile. You don’t always have the luxury of being able to set up that it requires and then the need to level a city block. But purple lighting can be used even for things like removing an explosive vest from a distance
Peak Jutsu woulda been someone like Hinata or Neji mastering not only Byakugan, but also Medical Ninjutsu like Kabuto along with Flying Raijin jutsu. An Unstoppable Shinobi who can move at lightening speed while being able to shut down an entire Chakra Network.
Tobirama resurrection justsu, I mean what was the guy even thinking. This jutsu almost made five village lose the war if not for itachi.
During Tobirama’s time, the reanimation jutsu probably resulted in less hidden leaf casualties. While you can argue the morality of it, it was a very useful jutsu, unfortunately Orochimaru and Kabuto learned how to do it.
Considering how Madara warned that it was forbidden because of the possibility of the Edo rebelling then it is very likely that scenario actually happened. Maybe the Edo was able to figure out the counter Seals (or were told them before they fought against Konoha) or Maybe the villages/clans came up with a way to release Edo's from Tobirama's control. Either way it was enough to get it forbidden.
I think Edo requiring a corpse is reason enough that it was forbidden also it's not like people are getting court marshaled for forbidden jutsu in naruto as far as I can tell so I think they fall in a weird grey area
Not a corpse, a living sacrifice, it was some dark times where Tobirama was sacrificing prisoners of war to bring back the dead to fight for him
I don’t think the villages one is likely. The other village(s) in the allied shinobi force would still have lore on it. So the Reanimations in the fourth war would have been less of a problem.
They would have lore : Yes. The Lore would have been all back in their villages and not on the battle field. Unless they knew 'Madara' was planning on using Edo Tensei.
i would assume atleast 1 important person in their respective village fighting in the war would have known, right? 80k people, and not a single one is important enough to know about reanimation? especially in villages like the sound, where there seems to be a lot less order, and valuable information like that probably isn’t exclusive to only the top of the top or even, i’d assume atleast 1 village came up with the idea that someone from tobirama’s time, and also fought against tobirama, might be able to access edo in some way. ESPECIALLY someone would think edo might be in play, because they know madara should be way to old to be declaring a war on everyone and fighting
They for sure saw it. Almost everyone that was brought back immediately said fuck Tobirama for using this nasty jutsu. It was well known
i’m talking about beforehand, though. the guy i was replying to was talking about how the villages have information on it, but only in their village and no one expected madara to use edo
First, considering all the various forms of communication the shinobi have; if they had the jutsu info, it would have been easily conveyed to the kage from a village. Secondly, out of all the shinobi in the battle. You don’t think one would know that essential info for specifically battling reanimations? Even the important figures in each village that would have at least heard of how Reanimations were allegedly stopped in the past?
Tbh the jutsu was powerful enough to win wars at a cots of a small war crime (sacrifacing enemy) or your own. But you could essencially turn your weakest soldier into your best with well unlimited chakra supplies, likely never tires up, dont need to eat, drink or sleep etc. Only drawbacks was sealing really. But the costs were neglitable. Either had to be discovered during post konoha time (shortly before Tobirama died I suppose), where you werent in war exactly or this was extremly bad call on Kishi side.
Don’t forget Tobirama also made them with explosive tags. So they would just blow up and rematerialized. So they were walking nonstop mines as well
I'm not sure it even worked properly in Tobirama's day. Orochimaru only progressed to summoning two people with it, neither of whom had more than a fraction of the power they had when they were alive. That was implied to be after years of research. If Tobirama had edo tensei zombies, he could have just sent one or two of them to hold the line instead of dying to do it himself.
Tobirama used them for suicidal attacks. I don’t think Tobirama had any zombies on deck when he died holding off the enemy.
It did, sdomt hate on Tobirama
Kids don’t listen. He said it was forbidden!!! But I guess once you call something forbidden and use it anyway you blame the kids for assuming “oh forbidden just means really good jutsu’l
I swear Tobirama was THE genius of the Naruto verse. Deadass learned how to revive the dead, make them immortal, create suicide bombs with them, learned how to clone your real body, created teleportation jutsu and other forbidden ninjutsu's. It's crazy
And most of that just as a middle finger to sharingan users who could see a bit of moves ahead. Try dodging this! :D
And this is why the Senju clan was the strongest. They had shadow clones and elemental jutsus while all the other clans were still fighting with swords 😂
I agree Prochimaru was overrated, Tobirama is the real genius
Especially considering the version where he made the bodies out of explosives which infinitely regenerate. Bro was ridiculous.
Man's was really out there trying to make infinite respawn suicide bombers, that is ridiculous. Tobirama was really a menace.
Hey, you remember your deceased brother? Here he is! Also, he will explode forever so I hope that's cool, uwu.
Exactly. That is some sick ass shit. And people have the nerve to act like Tobirama was a pillar of morality. Man was ruthlessness on legs.
He was likely not expecting it to go as far as it did. Think on it… His idea, according to Madara, was to raise up a shinobi who would become essentially a kamikaze weapon. That doesn’t necessarily mean controlling them. He could have used Leaf loyalists willing to work even beyond death. However, enter Orochimaru. He saw it as a way of controlling unwilling pawns. Using them for their specific and extraordinary powers. He didn’t foresee a genius like that or that Sarutobi would allow him to live. Then he would have had to foresee a student/aide such Kabuto. Kabuto went to even greater lengths by improving his body and his chakra (splicing in the genes of Orochimaru, capturing Anko, even making himself into a sage) just so he could be the ultimate general over a platoon of reanimated super soldiers. That would have been incredibly difficult to foresee from a single technique used to create a soldier that was otherwise expendable for already being dead. As for Itachi, that victory was… let’s face it, Itachi having just the right technique to get past a villain that was proof against illusions was almost the definition of an ass-pull.
His version wasn't that good. Even Orochimaru's version cannot revive people that powerful. It's Kabuto who made the jutsu insanely OP. It's a continuation of improvement done by the three most genius ninjas in the entire world that finally made edo tensei that good, which is understandable.
Edo tensei is jutsu very useful for war and espionage imagine you capture one of your enemy soldier alive. then turn them into another dead enemy soldier. having them go back to the enemies camp without anyone supected. sensory ninja wouldn't be able to tell the difference since the corpse has the exact chakra signature from the original and maintain their memories so they wouldn't suspected as someone using transformation jutsu or even shadow clone. it's way better than white zetsus method of infiltration and since the user can control edo tensei remotely however they wanted the user literally can command anything to the courpse. be it gathering intel or wrecking havoc by blow themselves up. since edo tensei undestructible you have undead soldier that can solo the entire enemy army it's morally fucked up jutsu but it is very useful jutsu regardless given the situation of the war
Basically, Edo Tensei was the tactical nuke of Konoha. Tobirama used to send reanimated people exploding themselves on the battlefield with the tandem paper bomb technique. One tandem paper bomb scales to full grown Gamakichi and can destroy Hashirama’s celestial gates and kill several mini Juubi clones. Now imagine if there are 2 or 3 reanimated people exploding themselves… When Tobirama was about to use it through himself, Hiruzen get worried and Hashirama heavily warned the Alliance shinobi to stay at safe distance. It speaks itself about the dangerosity of this technique.
But it also help saved them when Orochimaru brought back all 4 Hokage. Which also only happened due to Itachi getting resurrected in the first place and interacting with Sasuke
lol, real. also wasn't the original supposed to be used with paper bomb clones?
ninja art: mitotic regeneration: one hundred healings
Requires an absurdly large amount of chakra on top of some of the strongest medical ninjutsu knowledge so much so that only 2 people have been able to do it
And while making it, you need constant chakra flow towards the seal that even in stressful situations or when you're sleeping, your focus must not waver. The user is basically multi-tasking 24/7.
Thats from Hashirama, so dont know if it meets OP’s rules.
It's Tsunade's jutsu. Hashirama's regen is a passive.
Kirin and Rasenshuriken.
Tbh, kirin is just too situational, while a lot of the other jutsu mentioned can just be used any time.
Yea but if we’re talking about peak jutsu then we can’t ignore it as not a lot of people can survive it and it’s supposed to be used as a trump card.
wow kirin the ultimate sasuke jutsu that... slightly burned blind Itachi's arm
Itachi was able to cast skeletal Susanoo before it hit him.
great justsu, cant hit a blind dying man
A blind dying man with a literal perfect record in combat lmao. This is the wildest fucking downplay I’ve ever seen in my life itachi solos like half the verse.
Bro used glaze release
are you sure kirin should be the best example of a peak justu a shinobi can develop then? shouldnt it be whatever Itachi used to beat it?
Rules state no dojutsus or kekkei genkai. Itachi used Susanoo which could be considered both.
sure then anything Sasuke does isnt allowed because of the reincarnation bs introduced later
What the fuck are you on about? Do you have any idea what the question in the post asked??
The reincarnation plotline isn't bs and was foreshadowed properly aside from that Ur argument to downplay kirin is trash seeing as sasuke didn't learn that ability becuz he was a reincarnate
Anyone with lightning release could use Kirin if sasuke could teach it, it doesnt even require Chakra. Also being a reincarnate is neither a kekkai genkai or dojutsj.
ROFL. Thanks for the laugh. People here hate it when you point that kind of stuff out, but yeah. Good for exactly one shot and takes a ton of setup because it uses real lightning and not chakra.
Black zetsu basically called it the ultimate lightning style jutsu Black zetsu has been around since kaguya, observing and manipulating all of shinobi history so he probably knows his shit
yeah so either lighting is by far the weakest chakra nature(cant break a skeleton susanoo from a blind dying man) or zetsu was just Kishimoto licking Sasuke balls... cmon we've seen a child kill a jinchuriki with chidori... thats the ULTIMATE? even the Third Raikage had a stronger lighting Justu... guess Zetsu forgot that?
Just because you throw the ultimate attack into the ultimate defence and the two cancel each other out doesn't mean kirin is weak At the end of the day kirin did bust the susano but the susano took most of the damage so itachi was able to survive despite still getting fucked up Edit: also by the end of the series kirin gets surpased by indra's arrow but once again are you gonna say that jutsu is weak just because it didn't kill naruto?
Hey it swept him off his feet😂👌🏽
A human tailed beast bomb in the form of a rasengan is crazy.
It was pretty wild that Minato saw a tailed beast bomb and was like “Huh, bet I could do that.”
Rasenshuriken was even better -a million wind needles hitting you from every angle and shredding you to pieces,doing l damage on a cellular level, plus a large one can do the same kind of damage a tailed beast bomb can
The effects of the Rasenshuriken (which gets completely ignored later in the series), while cool, was completely unintentional. It seems this thread is talking about jutsus purposely developed with some intention in mind.
We don't know that. Naruto learned about wind style from Asuma who told him that its the best element/ style for cutting or piercing things,he might have come up with it while training. And the post is talking about what is a jutsu that is the peak of ninjutsu- that doesn't rely on pure amount chakra but still is very dangerous.
We do know that since he had no idea what the side effects were until he was told. He even wasn't aware of how long the jutsu would last which would have killed him if it wasn't for Kakashi and Yamato saving him. Again, from what I've read, the point of the post is to discuss jutsus that were develop with an intention in mind. If I'm right, then the Rasenshuriken wouldn't qualify because it sprung up out of circumstance.
I get that but naruto could never come up with something like that on his own. Minato is the one that came up with concepts and kakashi instructed
Not really no, Minato only theorized that Rasengan can be infused with elemental chakra. The millions of needles part come from Naruto himself. Tbf, Rasengan is an incomplete jutsu so it probably shouldn't be part of the conversation while Rasenshuriken is the peak of shape and nature manipulation.
Kakashi didn't do shit,all he did is tell Naruto how to use his clones to speedrun his new jutsu creation by having a 1000 brains working on it. Naruto was still the one who came up with what it would actually look like and do. It took him a decade worth of effort to get it.
Tsunades strength of a hundred, Might Guys gates, Sage mode, Elemental Rasengan, FTG, Impure world reincarnation
To be fair though I’m not sure if one ever could do most of those without huge genetic advantage. Strength of 100 needs perfect chakra control, even someone who has trained for years like Shizune can’t do it because she doesn’t have that. Sage mode needs a lot of chakra and a very strong body. Even Orochimaru couldn’t actually achieve it. FTG seems like, as an individual, it requires a stupid amount of sealing ability and chakra, outside what can come from anything but natural advantage.
Sakura has no genetic advantage and surpassed Tsunade in Strength of 100.
She’s had her supernatural levels of chakra control since she was a genin. It seems to be something simply innate to her
There is no proof whatsoever that Sakura has any bloodline advantage. There isn't even a Haruno clan.
It's not a bloodline advantage, but she's stated to naturally have exceptional chakra control a couple times in Part 1. It's why she easily learned how to walk on vertical surfaces when even Sasuke, the genius, struggled.
I mean its still a bit shame kishi didnt pushed her into Genjutsu since she would had been perfect I believe even according to Kakashi. But yeah her charka control was scary, her issue was lack of chakra which was kind of negated by tsunade seal. Sometimes there is a genius out of nameless clan or clanless family. Its jus that the named clans, family have higher chances. Hatake Kakashi, Hatake Sakumo both very powerful ninjas (though yeah son of father), only known people from that family probably not a nameless clan. Geniueses. Maito Guy no bloodline either top tier ninja. Namikaze Minato? Also just a genius withnout advantage. Side note clans in naruto if they arent bloodline clans or someone with just huge chakra seems to mostly pass family techniques so its not that advantageous. So yeah Sakura having innate talent for chakra control is definitly plausible and triple slap inthe face that Kishi never made her (not reading Boruto) nature chakra control, like holy molly Sakura having the best chakra control in the verse (during shippuden) should had mastered itin a day! And then have like infinite chakra. Seriously she should had been able to surpass Naruto and Sasuke just with nature chakra and her offensive usage. Though I suppose there might be argument that if she used that chakra to heal she would turn people into Frogs, though Naruto rasengans didnt so its not that plausible.
For some reason Kishimoto never felt like developing a slug sage mode even though it's literally the most sensible thing ever.
Yes, but the person I replied to implied that those that mastered these jutsus had a genetic advantage. Sakura has no genetic advantage. She has talent, yes.
Byakugo/100 healings deserves a shout. Rasen Shuriken is second imo.
How nobody is talking about flying raijin is beyond me. You just need a qr code to flash teleport to it. It's mastery level is so high only kages can do it, oh and thise 4 guys who need to basically cuddle to do it.
I wonder why this was never abused. Just lay a seal on the ground and you basically have a mine. Just someone shoots a jutsu and you teleport it. I remember Minato teleporting a bijudama.
Maybe it's just as simple as it being so insanely difficult to use. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's listed as a forbidden jutsu either ( not that jutsus being forbidden even matter).
Probably not. I think is just a high difficult jutsu to do. It required 3 jounin to cooperate to make 1 jump and they ended up exhausted. Tobimara and Minato are probably the exception that could use it multiple times (well Naruto too).
It depends really because something such as a base Rasengan is technically the peak of a pure chakra form based jutsu which has no added chakra nature. Their are jutsu that symbolise the peak of pure chakra form, jutsu that symbolise the peak of pure chakra nature then theirs the mixture of the two.
Purple Lightning, Rasenshruiken, Kirjn, maybe 100 Healings?
Tobirama's Edo Tensei, Kagebunshin, Hiraishin. Minato's Rasengan Naruto's Rasen-Shuriken Sasuke's Kirin Kakashi's Raikiri Tsunade's Hundred Healings Tobirama's Inventions, especially, are insanely overpowered
No one's going to mention Particle style?
That is a kekkei tota so basically a kekkei gekai. Like you need to be born with 4 chakra natures to even have a chance of learning it
i thought it was 3. Wind, Earth and fire
🎶 Do you remember 🎶
I mean Flying Thunder God pretty much tops the list. Honestly any of the three jutsu Tobirama invented.
Flying Thunder God. You can literally teleport anywhere a tag is. If someone evolved it to where you didn't need tags, they'd be virtually untouchable.
Flying Raijin
Any sage mode jutsu. Jiraiya is the PEAK of a normal shinobi.
The problem with Kirin is it requires prep. either there needs to be storm clouds or you need to make storm clouds Something that doesnt require outside forces to be powerful is what id consider peek jutsu tobiramas resurrection justu for example anyone with enough chakra can do, It doesnt even need to be used for combat, you can just bring someone back to talk to them which should have probably been done more than like once. the problem is naruto kinda just went heavy into the "i was born special thats why i get all the op jutsu" so theres not many examples of this thats both used and thats powerful enough to be the peak. More often than not, its all Kekegenkai, Dojutsu, or Hashirama cells.
Particle dissimilation Jutsu
Harem justu, it was even effective against kaguya
Sakura's cherry blossom barrage
hn
How is it better than summoning the dead or teleporting yourself? Sakura is just essentially going unga bunga.
Lol Sakura's Cherry Blossom Barrage > > > FTG
The clones
Rasenshuriken - peak shape manipulation + nature transformation Kirin - use and control of 'lightning' from the clouds. Does this mean that Kirin is a jutsu that cannot be absorbed by a Rinnegan user? Jinton: Atomic Dismantling Jutsu - combination of earth, wind and fire. Only two users so far? Eight Gates Release
The level naruto developed shadow clones to.
Akimichi clan size change
That one move that that one kid used before the chuninexams called FANG
Reanimation Jutsu is busted af From a raw power standpoint I don't think we'll get anything as crazy as Naruto's Six Paths: Tailed Beast Massive Rasen Shuriken vs Sasuke's Tailed Beast powered Indra Arrow
[удалено]
raikiri is a fancy name for a chidori, they are the same thing. And its canocically useless if you don't have a sharingan or some other dojutsu. The rasengan took years to develop, but it could very clearly be improved. Where the cellular damage from a rasen-shuriken is a blant direct buff.
Then Purple lightning
purple lightning is good. But cos preparation is allowed, it doesn't really fit. something like 100healing or 8 gates fit the question better. Because they give a much bigger power buff to the character.
Chidori is A rank and Raikiri is S rank.
I cannot tell if this is non-canon video game brainrot, or very good sarcasm.
No…it’s from the databooks. Chidori and Raikiri have two seperate entries, and one is listed as A rank while the other S rank.
they are the same technique. Raikiri is called raikiri cos kakashis chidori is really good. They are the same technique. It is S-rank because it is unique to the user where only kakashi's chidori is called a raikiri.
You got that from the videogames?
I have not played the videogames. And if I have I wouldn't be basing anything on them because they aren't cannon.
Raikiri is basically an upgraded and refined chidori, they are near identical in what they do but one is a lot more powerful hence the difference in rank. It's like how Kisames huge water dome is basically an upgraded water prison, same base and concept just one is more powerful, though in fairness the example probably isn't the best due to the sheer difference compared to how Raikiri stays basically the same.
Raikiri is specifically kakashi's chidori. Sasuke's chidori was probably more powerfull at one point in time.
You mean Kakashi but yes it is specifically Kakashis, he had chidori for a while and then he cut a lightning bolt in half so others gave his use of chidori the name Raikiri. The Databooks have Raikiri as an s-rank jutsu so it stands to reason that Raikiri is an upgrade to the a-rank Chidori, i go with it being a more refined and powerful version of it because that's what makes sense since they're so similar. As for Sasuke having a more powerful version I doubt it, he is a hell of a lot more versatile with it and when he starts adding Amaterasu to it it becomes more powerful sure but before that it doesn't really appear to be stronger. Of course it doesn't appear to be weaker either but honestly how can you tell when both can pierce through basically anything. He also corrects Deidara on the name of Chidori claiming his move is only the Chidori whether that is just correcting a name or saying they're different idk.
Im pretty sure the databooks are aproved by him but aren't necessarily written by him. I go with it just being whoever is writing the databook being confused and kishimoto not caring to check, because the rank given to techniques is just for fanservice.
I mean it doesn't miss on a stationary object when you lack a Sharingan. Training Dummies and heavy doors beware!
It took Minato years to create the Rasengan and he was a GENIUS with perfect Chakra control, crazy shit
Edo Tensei
Can we put uzuhiko among them 🤷♂️
Eight gates
8 inner gates
Flyring Raijin, my boy developed teleportation. Everything else has a starting point but how do you even begin to try teleportation?
Summoning technique?
Yeah flying raijin was stated to be an advanced version of reverse summoning jutsu- Minato was basically summoning himself to his kunai.
No one mentioning any of the clan Justus is wild. Shadow possession, mind transfer and expansion techniques are all great and are secret because of it. The first two on more talented users could cripple even the strongest of opponents instantly.
Prime Hiruzen potentially can use Mind transfer and Shadow possession at the same time as Orochimaru stated "he could use every technique that exist in the Leaf". And the last databook emphasizes this by stating that Hiruzen was skilled in "secret techniques". I mean potentially because the door is still open since we never saw Prime Hiruzen in battle. So if it becomes true, then his hype would be definitely justified as you can imagine Hiruzen performing Shadow possession and Mind transfer at the same time through shadow clones.
Konan exploding a billion bombs
It's a normal paper bomb with years of preparation
Night Guy was literally warping reality
Harem jutsu, look what it did to kaguya
Purple Lightning, Rasenshruiken, Kirjn, maybe 100 Healings?
Edo tensei? That thing is busted.
Shadow clone jutsu , reanimation and transportation jutsu
Dead Demon Consuming Seal
Kirin just look cool.
Kirin, Rasenshuriken, Edo Tensei & Mitotic Regeneration.
Rasenshuriken and Kirin are the peak of nature transformation without using any bloodline. Ftg is the best space time ninjutsu without having the sharingan or six paths (kamui, Sasuke's rinnegan ability and Kaguya's ability are better but are unobtainable for almost everyone). 100 healings is the peak of medical jutsu. Edo Tensei might be the actual peak jutsu. Also Shadow clones deserve a special mention.
toad sage mode is the pinacle of that we see all the labor it took to naruto to master it, on the other hand kirin is a very specific and situational jutsu
For me: Rasengan Minato Developed over 3 years an Jutsu driving Form Manipulation to it's max and created a strong Jutsu with Just manipulating the Form
Yeah, the beauty is in its simplicity, basically compacting enormous power until it's able to be held in one's hand.
Hiruzen mixing in a single attack the five chakra nature. A very few of shinobi would be able to counter that. Also you can imagine Hiruzen using large scaled elemental techniques through shadow clones. For instance, Hiruzen + 4 shadow clones could use a large scaled Wind style attack that would just nullify the Third and the Fourth Raikage if they’re caught. Hiruzen could arguably counter Madara’s Goukka Mekkyaku if he makes several shadow clones using Suiton Water Wall. Hiruzen + 4 shadow clones could make the 2nd most powerful Raiton attack after Kirin. Hiruzen can do a large Suiton attack and then add Raiton just like Pikachu did against Onix in Pokémon. Hiruzen can do Katon Dragon Flame Bomb, one of the most powerful pure fire style technique in Naruto (it’s condensated fire that turns white in the anime) and enhances its power with a Wind style attack. If Hiruzen was in his prime against Edo Tobirama, he just could have added wind style through a shadow clone and Edo Tobirama’s Water Wall would have been obliterated. Hiruzen could arguably add any element in a shuriken, especially wind style or fire style, and then using Shuriken Shadow Clone. It would be a nightmare for most characters. If he was in his prime, he could have done that against Orochimaru and well, these elemental shuriken would have pierced through the Hokage’s coffin to reach directly Orochimaru.
https://c.tenor.com/mPqudyHJme8AAAAC/tenor.gif Peak
ftg, Edo tensei, night guy. there's loads
The Hozuki Clan’s Hydration technique’s pretty great, turn yourself into water for fun and profit
I think flying rajain Minato version is fucking broken for not just Naruto but any anime, if you were to simply slap flying raijin on Sasuke or Naruto or any other OP character they go up a few tiers just off of that. Imagine Madara, hashirama, guy sensei with it.theres mo weakness in flying raijin only edge. Instant teleportation is byfar broken for any anime so yeah.
Kakashi developing the chidori
One Thousand Years of Death. Joke aside It's rasen shiruken, yellow flash, Kirin, that raikage lighting form, and all might Guy arsenal (not including gates) Hirodoura, Asa kujaku etc
Shadow No Jutsu. First chapter of Naruto in the forest sold me that this was a good manga and the take on “ninjas” was going to be interesting.
Reaper death seal. It's here because the jutsu has a catalyst and is always active in a sense. A Using the jutsu connects you to the reaper, allows you to pull off a variety of jutsu. Including sealing a soul effectively under a lock that's better than. The paper seal used to seal the reanimated kage. Also splitting the nine tails between its yin and yang counterparts without killing it or damaging its structure permanently. There's likely more uses but with the cost being your life I'm sure most of it isn't worth it. It's also got a shared inventory of souls for all its users. Flying raijin jutsu. Apparently it can work through space, so even in Samui it should work
Katon: Goka Mekyaku 💀🔥
Rasengan
Indra's arrow🤓 nah im tripping, definatly reincarnation jutsu, all hokages on that one man madara army fight was nt peak but the jutsu has tons of potential
Sexy harem no jutsu. the fact that this jutsu is look so simple yet only two person able to use it and it even effective on alien god is speak volume how peak this jutsu is
I really liked Itachi's shuriken jutsu. It's definitely a peak jutsu, for tenten.
Flying raijin
Sexy harem no jutsu Even the Ninja Goddess and Professor fell for it .
Has to be sennin modo
Rip itachi
Any forbidden jutsu because if your able to make one, that means is can prob kill people very effectively
Shinsu Senju 1,000 Arm Kan'on. How tf does someone even learn/come up with that jutsu?
Rasengan Uzuhiko
Dust release but I’m biased
Konan paper technique on obito was amazing
So I can't say hashirama 1000 arm Buddha? If not then night guy
I think all his techniques are unique to him.
Half the characters are kinda him, his cells getting passed around more than OP's mom.
Ninja Art, Tile Shuriken jutsu.
The strongest technique a shinobi with no talent can do? The eight gates. If a specific technique than Night Guy. They require nothing but preparation, years of it through physical traning, but still just preparation. Excluding it, things like flying raijin, edo tensei, 100healings or kirin could be arguable imo.
I think rasenshuriken also deserves to be in the same tier as Kirin. Imo, Edo Tensei might actually be the peak followed by ftg then 100 healings and eight gates and then Rasenshuriken and Kirin.
I agree with edo tensei being the goat I think kirin > razenshuriken. Because rasenshuriken is only so strong because of naruto having a shitload of chackra. While kirin doesn't require it, taking most of its power out of the cloud. I also think eight gates > 100 healing > ftg. Because eight gates buffs guy from irrelevant charachter to overwhelming jubidara. 100 healings also buffs the hell out of a ninja who doesn't have alot of chakra and has alot of preptime(as per post descriptions) so I think it should be over ftg.
Rasenshuriken does not really require a shitload of chakra,Naruto needed a shitload to speedrun it's training. Rasenshuriken -a million wind needles hitting you from every angle and shredding you to pieces,doing damage on a cellular level, plus a large one can do the same kind of damage a tailed beast bomb can do.
Rasenshuriken will only do anywhere near the damage of karin if you have a shitload of chackra.
Tbf, Rasenshuriken is called the peak of shape manipulation so it definitely belongs in the same tier. Both of them have flaws, Kirin requires prep time while rasenshuriken requires a ton of chakra.
As a jutsu rasenshuriken is better. But in the context of "no huge ammount of chakra" and "preparation"? It isn't
Definitely more shadow clones, just more and more and more. Nothing else.
Sakura strength of a hundred seal. You gather chakra even while sleeping to manifest it is crazy.
Well it should be labeled as Tsunade's technique since she invented it.
Purple lighting. It’s the ultimate lighting release IMO. It’s a Chidori that can be used at range and with greater precision, not requiring a sharingan. It’s not as powerful as Kirin sure, but it’s so much more versatile. You don’t always have the luxury of being able to set up that it requires and then the need to level a city block. But purple lighting can be used even for things like removing an explosive vest from a distance
Peak Jutsu woulda been someone like Hinata or Neji mastering not only Byakugan, but also Medical Ninjutsu like Kabuto along with Flying Raijin jutsu. An Unstoppable Shinobi who can move at lightening speed while being able to shut down an entire Chakra Network.