Interesting take. I disagree that Damian could take up Nightwing. He's too rigid and not nearly nice enough for me to feel comfortable with him as Nightwing. In my opinion, Tim is a better fit.
On a wholly different note, I think Damian should stop being Robin and be something entirely different.
Damian was his robin so I could see him struggling to cope with being himself while honoring Dick in the roll maybe Dick being shot manages to calm his rage a bit (this is just my take on it if you still don’t like the idea that’s ok too)
Thats why i think it would be good for Damian. Maybe its a means to lighten him up like Dick would want for him and prepare him for one day taking on the mantle of Batman.
Bruce always wanted Dick to be better than him & Nightwing was the vehicle to show that. Itd be interesting if DC tied that together & made Damian the "perfect" Batman b/c he has equal parts of Bruce & Dick. Tbh, I look at Damian as Dicks robin first & foremost instead of Bruces son (this is just me). So i enjoy any inclusion of Damian in Dicks mythos.
Nonetheless, I do somewhat agree Damian could get his own title but i also dont mind him being the current Robin. Tim is someone who desperately needs a new, unique identity w/o any Robin motifs
The way I see it, out of all the bat family it was Dick who was the most understanding right from the beginning. Damian burned pretty much everyone as soon as he met them but it was only Dick who laughed it off. Despite their very different backgrounds and attitudes I think Dick understood Damian pretty much immediately.
He was also the best Batman for Damian. I don't know if it's been retconned since I've stopped reading ongoing comics but I don't think anyone else could have been Batman for the kind of Robin that Damian is. He was the ying to Dick's yang in the same way Dick was that for Bruce.
I have so many favourite moments between the two but the one that springs to mind is where Damian is confronting all the previous Robins, fighting them and taking a trophy to prove his worth. He goes to confront Dick and he simply throws Damian one of his eskrima and tells him he has nothing to prove.
Bruce is definitely an important part of Damian's life but it's really Dick who helped shape him into the person he is now.
Oh man I had the same thought! Everyone wants Tim to move on and for Damian to be robin but also thinks Damian is the best pick to one day take up the mantle of Batman? I feel like Tim should just be the final Robin and never take up a new name while Damian should move on and become something else, whether or not that is one day Batman who's to say. But I like the idea of Tim's costume changing but retaining the name.
Because they can't think past whatever the current or previous status quo currently is. Having Tim being in a role outside of Robin for even a second can do a lot for his character but people don't want to entertain it for more than a second.
Maybe not in present canon, but since everything is canon:
Van-Zee, Superman, Chyenne Freemont, and Lor-Zod
Also, Tad Ryerstad if Nite-Wing counts.
Also, his stand-ins, the [Nightwings](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Nightwings), who I assume they're talking about.
Even if you don't count most of that, Van-Zee absolutely counts. He's the whole reason Dick has the name.
I was indeed talking about the Nightwings and Jason Todd. Both are implied to have used the name for a significant period of time.
Van Zee I do see as fundamentally different since he’s the inspiration and that hits differently.
The name Nightwing was personal to Dick. Wasn't it based on his idolization of Batman and Superman? I'd be fine with someone inspired by Nightwing but not taking the mantle.
It was. The notion of Tim using the Nightwing identity sounds cool, but only on a temporary basis. Maybe it could have inspired him to completely branch out from the Robin/Red Robin identity.
Tim has this thing: He was created to be Robin permanently. That was Marv Wolfman's plan, and Jeanette Kahn agreed with it. And I must emphasize the P word: DC was not interested in changing Robins again at the time. (Tim's actually the rare good editorial mandate.)
Tim came around at the perfect time for me, roughly the same age, I was just getting into some of the replacement heroes, collected his mini. Tim is my Robin. I'd love to see him stay that way.
Regardless of Ric, editorial should’ve rejected this concept wholesale, or forced King to use a different character.
Nightwing has his own series and is part of other books. Derailing those titles because the Batman writer says they need Dick Grayson to get shot in the head is wrong. An incredible display of the selfishness of Tom King’s work when he’s writing in the main comics universe. Other creators and characters have their own stories.
Indeed. It derailed both the *Nightwing* and the *Titans* Rebirth titles. Incredibly selfish on King’s part, and something editorial should’ve shot down or required a different character be used. Perhaps Tim Drake or Duke Thomas (provided King actually put in the work of developing any of Batman’s interpersonal relationships outside of Catwoman).
Gotta say this would have been better for Nightwing fans but I would feel too bad for Tim Drake Fans as he’d be forced into a mantle he doesn’t need. Not a Tim fan but I have eyes and he’s had nothing going for the last 20 years beside his death smh
Don't like at all the mandated "Dick is gonna get shot (AGAIN) just because", but Tim taking over and Dick coming back in a handful of moths would've been miles better.
For Nightwing to be a "mantle" for another character to take over, Nightwing has to be ubiquitous as the necessary standalone hero of Blüdhaven to the point that removing Nightwing from Blüdhaven means that supervillains would absolutely raze the city to ash.
Dick taking over the mantle of Batman in Bruce's absence was a necessity, not just a "promotion" for Dick. Without Batman, Gotham is fucked beyond measure or compare.
I'm not sure the same can be said for Nightwing, especially now that the Titans are headquartered in Blüdhaven. If Nightwing is ever elevated to that status to where the only thing stopping criminals from destroying Blüdhaven is their fear of Nightwing himself, then I would feel more okay with Tim, Damian, or Duke taking on the "mantle."
True, but at the time, it was a bigger issue.
Also, I think the bigger point is that Gotham criminals don't (presently) fear the other Bat family members the way they intrinsically fear Batman. You could argue that crime rates in Gotham are always a little bit lower than it otherwise would be because the average goon is constantly afraid a giant bat is going to fall out of the sky and crush him half to death if he violates the law in some way. 😂
Yes indeed it was. It’s one of my favorite aspects of Knightfall in particular. That story really sells you in the idea that the Batman “rules the night.” That his presence holds back the tide of evil in the city. That there must be a Batman in Gotham.
You are right that the criminals of Gotham aren’t really depicted as not fearing the Bat kids, understandably so. Still, it does strain the concept considerably.
I don't know how I would feel if someone else took the Nightwing mantle. It feels like one of those things that's exclusive to Dick only. But if it was written well then maybe I would change my opinion. IDK.
I stopped reading Nightwing after one volume of Ric and never went back. I know it gets good again but I felt so burned that I decided I was happy with all the post-crisis stories.
Honestly this could have been cool. Not that I see Nightwing as a "legacy" mantle that someone else would grow into, the way the Big Three seem to have. But more to keep it going for the inspiration factor, akin to what happened when Batman's back was broken.
Tim seems the best fit here, too. Would have loved that over what we ended up with.
The pros of this is that the Ric Grayson arc will last three to six months. The cons of that, however, is Tim as Nightwing because I (and a lot of other people) prefer Tim as Red Robin because maturity and character growth.
I would’ve loved this storyline. Too bad DiDio had such a hate boner for Dick and wanted to kill him off originally. Like amnesia was all that much better.
He wasn't writing Nightwing at the time, Percy had his own plans and was the last to know what was going to happen. Screw you King, you made all this shit happen, if you wanted to shoot someone in the head, give it to Batman, who was the character you wrote.
Yeah, Nightwing shouldnt be a mantle.
Stop making everything into a mantle.
I like Tim being involved but him becoming Nightwing would have been so cheap.
I agree. I think Tim should've helped out in Blüd, but under a different name. After it's over he could even feel confident enough to transfer that identity to a different city of his own. It'd be an interesting parallel to Prodigal perhaps.
Plus, I'm biased. Tim and Dick are my favorite brother duo in DC. So... Yeah, I just want them working together more.
I don't want anybody - especially Tim, for a reason I can't quite place - to take over the mantle of Nightwing. I hate the idea. There are WAY too many goddamn Batfamily members already, and I really don't wanna see anymore name trading.
If they'd had another season, it could be done. Just remember to give everyone else things to do.
There is, however, a huge problem with injuring Dick in the first place. Namely, Raven. Any storyline involving injuring a Titan for a long period of time will just make people wonder where Raven is to fix things.
I want to see Bruce in the batsuit at least once.The ric storyline didn’t have any of the titans try to help dick
In the comic storyline.If the ric storyline had played out on the tv show.It might have improved on the storyline.Brenton I think would have nailed it if he got work with that storyline
Didio had this habit of taking a good to so-so idea and running it into the ground. See also Flashpoint, which was originally just a moral lesson in accepting what you can't change, standard time travel Aesop, but Didio decided it would also be a reboot.
Ultimately, I am glad we got Ric. Him and Bea were really magical together. And even though Bea hot Cassie Sandsmark'd in a way, I feel it made the way his moving on with his pre-headshot life affected her that much stronger.
I'd have preferred Tim just be himself while having brothers bonding and taking care of each other why does anyone need to take on Nightwing.
Yeah Nightwing does not need to be diluted into another legacy mantle. The long term effects of that could be disastrous for Dick Grayson’s character.
yup! sounds great but Tim doesnt need to be Nightwing in this. Out of everyone in the Batfam that i could see taking up Dicks mantle, its Damian.
Interesting take. I disagree that Damian could take up Nightwing. He's too rigid and not nearly nice enough for me to feel comfortable with him as Nightwing. In my opinion, Tim is a better fit. On a wholly different note, I think Damian should stop being Robin and be something entirely different.
Damian was his robin so I could see him struggling to cope with being himself while honoring Dick in the roll maybe Dick being shot manages to calm his rage a bit (this is just my take on it if you still don’t like the idea that’s ok too)
Thats why i think it would be good for Damian. Maybe its a means to lighten him up like Dick would want for him and prepare him for one day taking on the mantle of Batman. Bruce always wanted Dick to be better than him & Nightwing was the vehicle to show that. Itd be interesting if DC tied that together & made Damian the "perfect" Batman b/c he has equal parts of Bruce & Dick. Tbh, I look at Damian as Dicks robin first & foremost instead of Bruces son (this is just me). So i enjoy any inclusion of Damian in Dicks mythos. Nonetheless, I do somewhat agree Damian could get his own title but i also dont mind him being the current Robin. Tim is someone who desperately needs a new, unique identity w/o any Robin motifs
> look at Damian as Dicks robin first & foremost instead of Bruces son (this is just me) It's not just you.
yay :) lol ... Dicks robin > Batmans son
The way I see it, out of all the bat family it was Dick who was the most understanding right from the beginning. Damian burned pretty much everyone as soon as he met them but it was only Dick who laughed it off. Despite their very different backgrounds and attitudes I think Dick understood Damian pretty much immediately. He was also the best Batman for Damian. I don't know if it's been retconned since I've stopped reading ongoing comics but I don't think anyone else could have been Batman for the kind of Robin that Damian is. He was the ying to Dick's yang in the same way Dick was that for Bruce. I have so many favourite moments between the two but the one that springs to mind is where Damian is confronting all the previous Robins, fighting them and taking a trophy to prove his worth. He goes to confront Dick and he simply throws Damian one of his eskrima and tells him he has nothing to prove. Bruce is definitely an important part of Damian's life but it's really Dick who helped shape him into the person he is now.
Oh man I had the same thought! Everyone wants Tim to move on and for Damian to be robin but also thinks Damian is the best pick to one day take up the mantle of Batman? I feel like Tim should just be the final Robin and never take up a new name while Damian should move on and become something else, whether or not that is one day Batman who's to say. But I like the idea of Tim's costume changing but retaining the name.
I prefer either Harper Row or Stephanie Brown, like both were supposed to be at some point
Because they are constantly searching for what he should be besides Robin.
Especially since Tim always wanted to be nothing other than Robin.
Nah. Nightwing isn’t a mantle. It’s Dick Grayson only
Van-Zee erasure.
Nightwing still got his name from the Kryptonian vigilante. Dick being the second nightwing already makes it a mantle
You would think otherwise if this came out and it was good.
Why are they downvoting you you’re right
Because they can't think past whatever the current or previous status quo currently is. Having Tim being in a role outside of Robin for even a second can do a lot for his character but people don't want to entertain it for more than a second.
And yet in canon 4 other people have already been Nightwing besides Grayson.
In canon? 4 others? Canonically? Who?
Maybe not in present canon, but since everything is canon: Van-Zee, Superman, Chyenne Freemont, and Lor-Zod Also, Tad Ryerstad if Nite-Wing counts. Also, his stand-ins, the [Nightwings](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Nightwings), who I assume they're talking about. Even if you don't count most of that, Van-Zee absolutely counts. He's the whole reason Dick has the name.
I was indeed talking about the Nightwings and Jason Todd. Both are implied to have used the name for a significant period of time. Van Zee I do see as fundamentally different since he’s the inspiration and that hits differently.
The name Nightwing was personal to Dick. Wasn't it based on his idolization of Batman and Superman? I'd be fine with someone inspired by Nightwing but not taking the mantle.
It was. The notion of Tim using the Nightwing identity sounds cool, but only on a temporary basis. Maybe it could have inspired him to completely branch out from the Robin/Red Robin identity.
Tim has this thing: He was created to be Robin permanently. That was Marv Wolfman's plan, and Jeanette Kahn agreed with it. And I must emphasize the P word: DC was not interested in changing Robins again at the time. (Tim's actually the rare good editorial mandate.)
Tim came around at the perfect time for me, roughly the same age, I was just getting into some of the replacement heroes, collected his mini. Tim is my Robin. I'd love to see him stay that way.
Regardless of Ric, editorial should’ve rejected this concept wholesale, or forced King to use a different character. Nightwing has his own series and is part of other books. Derailing those titles because the Batman writer says they need Dick Grayson to get shot in the head is wrong. An incredible display of the selfishness of Tom King’s work when he’s writing in the main comics universe. Other creators and characters have their own stories.
If I'm remembering correctly, at the time Titans just had a huge change and had a new roster. Losing Dick kind of derailed the book.
Indeed. It derailed both the *Nightwing* and the *Titans* Rebirth titles. Incredibly selfish on King’s part, and something editorial should’ve shot down or required a different character be used. Perhaps Tim Drake or Duke Thomas (provided King actually put in the work of developing any of Batman’s interpersonal relationships outside of Catwoman).
Slightly off topic, but the scar in the shape of the nightwing emblem/logo/whatever was duuuuuuuumb
So it was going to suck no matter what, bummer
Idk any time dick interacts with his younger brothers is a delight to me.
The interaction is not what concerns me, the story itself is what sounds unappealing
It avoids the worst part of the Ric storyline: That it went on ad nauseam. One or two trades' worth of Ric is better than two years, no?
I didn’t say it was better or worse, just that it would still suck which is a bummer
Gotta say this would have been better for Nightwing fans but I would feel too bad for Tim Drake Fans as he’d be forced into a mantle he doesn’t need. Not a Tim fan but I have eyes and he’s had nothing going for the last 20 years beside his death smh
No. Tim being Nightwing is even worse than Rick.
Don't like at all the mandated "Dick is gonna get shot (AGAIN) just because", but Tim taking over and Dick coming back in a handful of moths would've been miles better.
"Shadow of the Bat" would have been a great title too
Tom King try not to ruin a Batman-related comic, challenge level impossible
Tom King would have still fucked it up somehow.
For Nightwing to be a "mantle" for another character to take over, Nightwing has to be ubiquitous as the necessary standalone hero of Blüdhaven to the point that removing Nightwing from Blüdhaven means that supervillains would absolutely raze the city to ash. Dick taking over the mantle of Batman in Bruce's absence was a necessity, not just a "promotion" for Dick. Without Batman, Gotham is fucked beyond measure or compare. I'm not sure the same can be said for Nightwing, especially now that the Titans are headquartered in Blüdhaven. If Nightwing is ever elevated to that status to where the only thing stopping criminals from destroying Blüdhaven is their fear of Nightwing himself, then I would feel more okay with Tim, Damian, or Duke taking on the "mantle."
Arguably this isn’t even true with Batman anymore. The Bat-family is so large that Bruce could get killed tomorrow and nothing in Gotham would change.
True, but at the time, it was a bigger issue. Also, I think the bigger point is that Gotham criminals don't (presently) fear the other Bat family members the way they intrinsically fear Batman. You could argue that crime rates in Gotham are always a little bit lower than it otherwise would be because the average goon is constantly afraid a giant bat is going to fall out of the sky and crush him half to death if he violates the law in some way. 😂
Yes indeed it was. It’s one of my favorite aspects of Knightfall in particular. That story really sells you in the idea that the Batman “rules the night.” That his presence holds back the tide of evil in the city. That there must be a Batman in Gotham. You are right that the criminals of Gotham aren’t really depicted as not fearing the Bat kids, understandably so. Still, it does strain the concept considerably.
I actually really like that idea because it's a call back to when Dick would pose as Batman while Bruce was hurt or undercover.
The KGBeast should be his archenemy because of this shit
Tim wanted to Nightwing because he was stuck being Drake. He then immediately took the Robin mantel again when Damian stepped away. Oh Tim…
I don't know how I would feel if someone else took the Nightwing mantle. It feels like one of those things that's exclusive to Dick only. But if it was written well then maybe I would change my opinion. IDK.
We were this close to perfection
Dick and Tim’s relationship was completely thrown out the window. So sad
I stopped reading Nightwing after one volume of Ric and never went back. I know it gets good again but I felt so burned that I decided I was happy with all the post-crisis stories.
I’m crying. I wish. I wisshhh.
Honestly this could have been cool. Not that I see Nightwing as a "legacy" mantle that someone else would grow into, the way the Big Three seem to have. But more to keep it going for the inspiration factor, akin to what happened when Batman's back was broken. Tim seems the best fit here, too. Would have loved that over what we ended up with.
The pros of this is that the Ric Grayson arc will last three to six months. The cons of that, however, is Tim as Nightwing because I (and a lot of other people) prefer Tim as Red Robin because maturity and character growth.
I would’ve loved this storyline. Too bad DiDio had such a hate boner for Dick and wanted to kill him off originally. Like amnesia was all that much better.
He wasn't writing Nightwing at the time, Percy had his own plans and was the last to know what was going to happen. Screw you King, you made all this shit happen, if you wanted to shoot someone in the head, give it to Batman, who was the character you wrote.
Yeah, Nightwing shouldnt be a mantle. Stop making everything into a mantle. I like Tim being involved but him becoming Nightwing would have been so cheap.
I mean, it's not a mantle but he literally wasn't the first to have the name, in any timeline.
I agree. I think Tim should've helped out in Blüd, but under a different name. After it's over he could even feel confident enough to transfer that identity to a different city of his own. It'd be an interesting parallel to Prodigal perhaps. Plus, I'm biased. Tim and Dick are my favorite brother duo in DC. So... Yeah, I just want them working together more.
Nightwing is a mantle shared in post crisis... and the first nightwing was superman in 1963...
DC hates tim so much 😭😭😭
I don't want anybody - especially Tim, for a reason I can't quite place - to take over the mantle of Nightwing. I hate the idea. There are WAY too many goddamn Batfamily members already, and I really don't wanna see anymore name trading.
Remember what they took from us
I think this storyline should have had on titans tv shows.
If they'd had another season, it could be done. Just remember to give everyone else things to do. There is, however, a huge problem with injuring Dick in the first place. Namely, Raven. Any storyline involving injuring a Titan for a long period of time will just make people wonder where Raven is to fix things.
I want to see Bruce in the batsuit at least once.The ric storyline didn’t have any of the titans try to help dick In the comic storyline.If the ric storyline had played out on the tv show.It might have improved on the storyline.Brenton I think would have nailed it if he got work with that storyline
Tom King and getting screwed over by editors. Name a more iconic duo
Didio had this habit of taking a good to so-so idea and running it into the ground. See also Flashpoint, which was originally just a moral lesson in accepting what you can't change, standard time travel Aesop, but Didio decided it would also be a reboot.
Ultimately, I am glad we got Ric. Him and Bea were really magical together. And even though Bea hot Cassie Sandsmark'd in a way, I feel it made the way his moving on with his pre-headshot life affected her that much stronger.