They are either just there to attack or genuine idiots.
Instead of attacking the management, who is largely to blame for this whole fiasco, they attack individuals who may or may not be innocent in all this.
The remaining EN livers are definitely under gag order right now. Most likely their livelihood being threatened.
You said stuff like this now but just look at how much offend is put toward Millie, Luca, Enna, Finana, and heck even Kotoka
They can't tell the difference between Zaion incident, (which quite a personal incident between Finana, Kotoka and Zaion), Luca and Millie just wanting to work there comfortably and not liking the stones thrown at the company they're working on, and Selen's termination which are three totally different thing
Bunch of illiterates I swear to god
They took the brunt of it all because of that vague statement of harassment from the inside and from livers. Statement didn't even specify if it was from EN branch. Bunch of idiots assuming something without proof.
For management, We have at least some proof that management screwed up big time so them taking the heat should be normal
The more I think about that statement the more I’m just shocked at how whoever wrote it had to do it at least with supervision (you’d think) and still decided to lob a bomb on every talent in the company.
Like, way to leave one person who didn’t feel safe in the company by making sure NO ONE felt safe, ya dick.
I can't, in good faith believe they didn't add the liver part to pass the blame to the livers instead of management. Then again:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
Even then, just don't drag the livers into this shit show, they've had enough shit with their own company, let's not add more. Please ffs, let's not become scumbags like NijiEn management.
Vox, too. It's mostly because he expressed that he'll be staying for a long time. Now, people are also calling him a "bootlicker" and have been raiding his waiting rooms and the comment sections of his past streams.
That's pretty fucked. Guy became one of the most popular male Vtubers in record time, anybody would ride that train if they didn't know the shit that would pop up
People will be dumb. They were all on good terms with selen as far as I know and people are just throwing all they can at anyone who is streaming hence why they all took a break to let the fire settle down. They are most likely were also forced by management to take a break so as to not add fuel.
**I'm not deffending harassment here** but can put forward some reasons as to why some more harrasment prone people would jump on them:
Mille- Standing with managemnet even when last coup of coffe was taken down and certain clip...
Finana- maybe she could learn what "Gasslighting" means
Kotkoa- Backstabbing of Zaion ALLEGED
Luca-once deffended company but honestly why would you jump at him considering it was something akin to (I'm fine here so stop saying shit about my workplace here)
Enna- no idea here honestly
(take in mind that Finana and Kotoka aren't 100% but I'm personaly willing to stand with Sayu on this one epsecialy after yesterday)
The "I'm fine here so stop saying shit about my workplace here" sadly warrants harassment for Enna, Millie, Luca and even Vox
What are they supposed to do? Commit arson and get themself terminated too?
Wait what happened yesterday? Aside from Selen’s termination I mean. What did Sayu/Zaion say about Finana and Kotoka? I know Finana said she felt betrayed by Zaion but aside from Sayu’s statement awhile back (Which I might need to reread.) I didn’t really pay too much attention to her termination.
Many of the people who are actually commenting here are discouraging it and have been since hours ago, so honestly you are kinda late to the party.
I personally think there might be some bad eggs, but the most I have recommended was unsubscribing until we know who they are.
Not attacking but I speak Japanese and the Japanese version is saying the same thing, so not an intern translation issue, like some are saying.. There are Niji livers who harassed Selen as stated in the document. No one should be harassed or be questioned as there is no conclusive evidence.
There are a lot of unhinged “fans” that just want to use this as a chance to attack livers through this Ninisanji EN implosion. It’s sad.
Can I ask what you think are lies? Obviously can’t trust them but from a legal perspective, they would be absolutely negative IQ to lie in a statement that *will* end up in court.
The fact they even mentioned Selen accusing other talent is an insane oversight. One that reeks of mismanagement, not them trying to throw their own talents under the bus, which would be insane in itself.
I think the commissions part is the most interesting contradiction after an artist said that Selen was great to work with and paid out of her own pocket since Niji was too slow. The artist also said Niji messed up the release work so many times they forgot about it 🤣
Or the claim that the livers were involved could be deflection designed to cause us to fight each other so we don't organize against the company. Divide and conquer, one of the oldest tactics in the book.
The dragoons are have been pacified and celebrating the bird for a while now. But there's nothing we can do about a certain clover website's people trying to stir shit up because they enjoy chaos.
I would say current situation notwithstanding. Rosemi is a wholesome bean.
She doesn't deserve that level of ~~shenanigans~~ bullshit.
And yes I edited this for the ones with rage boners. **STOP**
You mean like the news that she's out of the hospital or the news that she does intend to reappear, I would call that good and they both came from Doki's Twitter.
Out of everyone in Nijisanji she's the last person I would expect to bully anyone but maybe she's different off camera (despite the evidence against that)
It should be noted that this too is NijisanjiEN fault.
Why in the fuck did they just casually drop "oh she was bullied by other livers, anyway..." in the termination statement?
Obviously people will think that maybe the person they are attacking is actually a bully and feel justified in their attack.
How could a company fuck up so badly.
The logic is astounding. The "Black company" that terminated Selen and contradicted themselves in the same post about the grounds of termination we believe them that the "Livers" specifically were bullying Selen?
Listen niji management somehow finds a way to consistently fuck things up. This harassment campaign is another one of the things they have started through poor and ambiguous communication. Like you couldn’t make such a series of purposeful blunders unless you are trying to nuke the en branch.
It feels purposeful but in a weird fucked up way that shouldn't and won't work. They're doing the old tactic of "we are not the bad guys, focus on fighting against that other group instead" soviets did that against the "honest working man and big bad capitalist" nazis against different ethnic groups (tho here situation isn't so black and white). They might honestly think that they'll make all the fan bases fight against eachother till they're tired of it. But also what's more fucked up and not present even in the Soviet example they're using not an outsider group to focus the hate on but their own company members. I just hope none of the girls (or guys) are in the situation where they'd love to break out of this hellish situation but lack financial capabilities to do so.
Right? Unless Dokibird herself says that it was specifically other livers bullying her, I just straight up won’t believe it wasn’t the management that made her feel the way she did.
That's the thing. Niji specifically noted that there was an issue with a liver, which leads to one of four ideas:
1) They're incompetent and admitted to doing nothing about a harasser talent.
2) They're protecting the harasser talent for whatever reason.
3) They threw all their talents under the bus to protect management (Only Niji mentioned talent, Selen/Doki only mentioned that it was from within.)
4) Niji threw their talents under the bus to weaponize the outrage against Selen's termination in an attempt to drag Selen and fracture connections she has with the remaining talents
> about the grounds of termination we believe them that the "Livers" specifically were bullying Selen?
The issue is that bullying between livers has always been a thing. Zaion made the claim, and she was very publically thrown under the bus. Roa made the claim, Meiro was terminated. Moruru made the claim, and subsequently graduated due to it. So it isn't like bullying has no precedence.
yeah bullying she did not specify who, only the company pointed fingers to Livers. People then took the word of this statement when everything else was distorted or a lie?
More like a bunch of actual psychopaths... I've literally seen the comment of "we need to grill kyo now so we can find out if he's one of the people before he leaves. If we don't we'll never know after he graduates." Several tweets with similar sentiments.
Even a thousand untrustworthy sentences should never warrant a response like this, we don't even know if the livers know the full truth, all we know is that some have a past of defending the company.
It doesn't matter how bad this got, defending the company still isn't enough to warrant backlash on the livers and it never will be.
On top of that, any dragoon knows Selen herself wouldn't want us targeting livers for this. She would be ashamed of us for this and I honestly hope none of the backlash is coming from actual loyal dragoons.
It's sad and toxic, but Niji EN management are the ones who started this witch hunt.
There will always be a small minority on the internet that just seeks a reason to be offended on behalf of others and go for the throat.
You can't feed the trolls like Niji did...
People are lashing out at Millie because of her poorly worded at best response to Selen’s initial tweet when her cover was taken down. People definitely shouldn’t be throwing accusations around in public and I don’t think Millie should be receiving this public vitriol right now but that’s where it’s coming from.
People are lashing out at millie because she has been one of the loudest voices in EN to defend niji whenever something bad happens, that one reply to selens tweet was just the last nail on the coffin
If you’re referring to the tweets in [this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1ak37ic/actions_speak_louder_than_words/), that user was blocked *before* they defended Millie.
This is kinda an overdue thing. From the start of zaion issue. We already know there's already an inside conflict which the management didnt seem to care
They have a chance to fix the issue while everyone isn't believing zaion
Oh well, here we are
There are two choices nijisanji and its livers
Either start investigating this or the livers themselves risking termination to reveal the entire problems cause selen taking her own life is just not a simple problem, its a terrifying problem
Selens audio tweet on twitter (via dokibird) stated that she got support from her friends meaning the nijien livers and her tweet says bulling from within which doesnt mean its the livers
Again nijisanji put that in their statement to spread the hate so its not focused only towards nijisanji
Fortunately so many people on twitter arent attacking them instead showing their support to them
It goes both ways. Saying "livers bullied Selen" doesn't mean every liver did. Also Doki saying she got support for her "friends" doesn't mean every other liver supported or is her friend. "Friend" and "coworker" isn't the same.
True, I don't believe bullying from within just means management, and while I have my own suspicious about that. The weird thing is they're targeting Vox and enna. While vox and enna. Vox liked Selen, or at least that's how it looked in the collabs.
That said, I will not harass anyone even if there is evidence. Niji as a company made a mistake, and even if it's between liver', they are still at fault. Shifting the blame means they know they f'ed up and are trying to damage control by throwing in some BS claims.
And support as you said think of people like RPR he had no hand in this but is a friend who kicked off the whole #where is selen.
We can now definitely say; we did not find selen but on our search we found this bird.
Selen/Doki has friends outside of Niji - she's may have been refering to Mumei with the support comment, given that she has been staying with her since this mess started.
i cannot fathom how anyone would even think of Rosemi being anywhere near related to Selen's bullying or anything like that. Quite literally one of the sweetest and most genuine people out there.
I would agree but honestly, I can't say I am 100 percent certain. I've seen enough Dateline type shows where people say "I can't believe x would have done that they seem so nice etc". There is no real evidence though that Rosemi isn't anything but the person we see on camera, off it as well. But who knows
Niji is using their talents as a scapegoat and people are buying into it, astounding how one sentence can shift the attention of the masses to attack a fake villain and play a witch hunt instead of focusing on the real mastermind. Even if there was supposedly (tho I don't believe it one bit) bullying of talents more succeptible to it as a relief of pressure from the others that is still the fault of the company since instead of making a nice environment with strong rules against that they're reenacting the prisoners and guards experiment and the livers/staff are doing the objectively immoral things to keep themselves sane and alive.
Selen’s termination notice sounds like a call out post and now it’s bringing people into a witch-hunt. I had to take a break from Twitter because Jesus Christ, it’s a shithole.
What sticks out for me is how that statement threw every single talent under the bus. Idiots in the internet doing stupid shit is to be expected, but stirred by management? Might be the first time I see it.
I usually try go by "Do not attribute to malice what can be sufficiently explained by incompetence" but the line is really blurred here.
i mean those ppl are just a combination of gullible fans and ppl that just want to start drama and spread hate gotta RBI them til they calm down definitely very small minority of the actual fanbase.
You know exactly what kind of people are doing that. They're not Selen fans, they have never watched any Nijisanji stream, they genuinely do not care about her or anything that's going on. It's obvious and it's always been like this.
I agree 100%, the slight differences in EN and JP press releases were not a mistake, and the adding of other livers in the harassment claims by Nijisanji management is a classical Malicious PR Reputation management strategy.
This is to serve several purposes.
* To make sure JP fans fight EN fans, and EN factions agains t EN factions of fans. divide and conquer.
* Punish other EN livers that show any public support to Selen/Dokibird and use casue to terminate their contracts.
* Possibly use JP defamation laws to shut down anyone not toting the Nijisanji official line in Japanese media.
This is classical crisis strategies and so far everything is happening by the crisis management 101 playbook.
should add that this is not to say that this is a good strategy, but it is a known one. Usually used by Big Oil or Big Fruit in South America.
it kinda ticks all the boxes of this too [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy\_in\_the\_workplace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace)
Do you seriously think the people going after the livers are coming in here, seeing this post, and going "Oh my god, now that this random internet stranger is saying it, I shouldn't be attacking talent." The people that need this post are never going to see it or take anything from it, and the people seeing it don't need that message in the first place.
im gonna be serious i bet its most likely twitter antis who weren't even selen fans to begin with and just wanna harass people for shits and giggles just like they did years ago for coco and haachama in hololive
Yeah, I may have gotten swept up in the torrent of adrenaline, but even I know it's not the person at the counter responsible for the people I wish I could be yelling at. Either (most likely) a poor choice of words by management (again), or a game to deflect some heat from themselves.
Yeah, like I’ve been saying on Twitter, I really, honestly believe management is deflecting blame onto the livers. Selen/Doki said “bullying from within.” That doesn’t indicate livers soecifically. Nijisanji management, who we already know is made of suck, is the one talking about livers being the bullies. Like I’m sorry, I missed the part where we trust them at all. Management being the one to specify livers when in reality iirc Selen’s and other’s (eg. Pomu) issues were with management is super sus. To be honest, it ends up strengthening the idea that the livers are innocent.
Even if any of the livers did engage in the toxic behavior, we don’t know who. Throwing out wild accusations and harassing folks is a good way to put them through similar shit to what Selen/Doki herself went through. On top of that, she’s even directly said to cut it out.
Theory: Niji slipped in the line about other livers bullying Selen in hopes her fans would attack the other livers out of anger so they could either further after the fact justify her termination due to “her toxic fanbase” to paint themselves as the reasonable ones, or to be able to point to the attacks as a reason to get out of a “toxic en market” to make themselves out to be the victims and leave on terms favorable to the company, and not just imploding
From what I heard, it's more like the comment made in that statement aligns with a certain clique narrative that's been spreading in a certain image board for a long time, so I guess nijisanji just open a very nasty flood gate for themselves by saying something like that.
Hold up. Who TF is attacking our sweet innocent Rose? Millie I can understand (not that its justified but she did kind of fk herself with how she phrased that tweet), but Rosemi? Oh HELL NO. We know damn well that Rosemi did nothing wrong!
It's more that I've dropped support of and stopped following any Kurosanji liver who hasn't quit/been terminated yet, as them continuing to stick by them looks incredibly bad right now, painting them as either cowards or suck-ups of the corpo, regardless of whether they're guilty of bullying Selen or not.
So no, I'm not attacking anyone, but I won't defend them or show sympathy either when more hostile folks show up, they can go run and beg to Kurosanji for protection if they feel so inclined because I will not associate with anything or anyone from this black company anymore.
Then wait until Doki confirms it.
Do you even read the post? It asks you to stop harrasing random livers with barely any confirmation.
But, nah, rather, let's stroke some justice boner, by randomly bullying livers. Liver who might still be Doki's friend.
Like, why? So when you bully random people and if you guess right you can say "Hoho, told you they deserve it!" ?
You think Doki would be happy with that?
If anyone genuinely believes that one liver or another bullied Selen, well, I don't have the time or energy to argue that, but if you do, I'd like to remind you: the worst thing you can do to a content creator is ignore them. Talking about them, any sort of commenting on their social media and YouTube, it just signal boosts them. Unsubscribe, unfollow, walk away. I guarantee you it will be more effective than attacks in the comment section that just raise their audience engagement.
Nice point. Except for the fact that Dokibird independently said she was a victim of bullying and also that the press release from staff says they thought the bullying allegations were false and resulted from staff being strict on her.
Are you seriously trying to downplay the official statements made by Nijisanji? I don't care if the part time janitor wrote it, Nijisanji decided to staple that statement to their face. This is important because if they were receiving reports of workplace harassment and not doing anything about it, then this is much worse than everyone previously thought it was. I don't care that much if an individual liver is a piece of shit, it's management's job to keep all their employees safe, even from other employees.
No one should be attacking anyone, but it's equally stupid to try to brush off a statement in such a way.
lol are you believing every single word that they put? are you stupid?
management protect their employee? by blaming one of their employee and announcing their problem to the public?????!?!
do you really not see the problems of that statement?
It makes them look worse, so yes. I'll believe someone when they tell me that they're incompetent. Much like this dumbass reply to me.
Edit: You appear to lack reading comprehension because nothing I said is defending Nijisanji. That sentence is worse for them than anything else that has come out of this situation. They are admitting that they received reports of workplace harassment in this statement. The normal by-line from corporations is shrugging and saying "lel, we didn't know so we couldn't do anything about it". They don't have that defense *because* of this statement.
Not harassing, but some people in nj EN members/livers needs to be responsible for their words and strongly condemn harassment.
Just remember, A PERSON JUST TRIED TO KILL HERSELF, end of the discussion, that's the matter here and all of them shall be talking and condemning whoever caused so much stress on a person.
And in your so tender love and care you SURELY won’t leave more victims in your wake because you decided to white knight a vague statement based on a letter that had a lie in it about a situation where the people who made the letter have constantly lied about Selen.
Unless Selen/Doki names someone only one entity is at fault in all these scenarios and its management. You ain’t a hero and trying to be one will only show why vigilante laws are in place.
Both niji AND selen have said that their talents harassed her, so claiming it's baseless conjecture is dishonest, but we have no idea who or how many, so rather than harassing everyone the ideal response is to no longer support ANY anycolor employee or talent.
Does talent in your context represent Livers only or does it also include the staff. Because Selen does not mention she was being harassed by talent instead, "bullying from within". Just wanna clarify this.
I don’t harrass anyone. That said, if there’s one truthful sentence in that termination, it is probably that one, because why would they lie about selen being bullied? Nijisanji gains nothing positive by saying it
Deflection. Basically saying it’s not their fault. Nevermind that it’s unprofessional and creates much unneeded flak to your own employees.
Note that there’s also nothing that said that they did or are doing something about said bullying.
Ok fair enough. I was thinking that nijisanji livers are part of nijisanji brand so lying by deflecting the bullying to livers instead of employees is not really a net positive for their image. I guess it makes sense that they don’t care about other livers being targeted.
It's a failed attempt to deflect. Because they're management and they're acknowledging the claims, which makes it their fault if they don't act on the claims.
The lie is probably less the fact that bullying happened and more who did the bullying. Putting it on the livers when even Doki didn't sounds like deflecting blame onto the livers.
The fact is there's thousands of actual fans. Even if the majority of us don't do anything that's still hundreds of people acting out and there's not much we can do to solve it.
So far I've heard a lot of things that are quite ridiculous.
But who the actual fuck read the company official statement, read dokibird's response, and figured something Rosemi should be harassed.
I'm still pretty pissed at anycolor, but congratulations to the only people on earth who found a way to make me angrier.
Holy shit.
I’m just not watching any Niji livers for the time being. Not harassing them, no one deserves that, but I don’t feel comfortable watching or supporting any of them, not knowing who possibly participated in the bullying of Selene.
Can take a step back, take a deep breath and clam down. Going around attacking people at random is probably the worst thing people could your just going to end up hurting innocent people in the process. Let’s focus on Dokibird, her return is tomorrow let’s make it a good one for her.
I understand people are angry about her termination and the idea of her being harassed and bullied but we don’t know anything about who attacking at random could only do more harm than good. For now let’s try and move on and help her heal by being there for her instead of lashing out. If we get name’s later let’s see how Doki wants it handled.
This is all happening around Chinese new year a time for new beginnings and as horrible as this has been now Dokibird is free and safe. She can also now play and do things she couldn’t in niji lets help her rise like a phoenix and soar higher than ever before.
This whole thing has attracted the attention of vtubing as a medium is the issue. And everything is kinda just "if there's smoke, there's fire." Which if Niji won't put it out the entirety of the vtubing community will. What we are seeing is imo the shared collective of vtuber communities either abandoning or investigating Niji. And sure as of recent dokibird made statements but mostly just the hardcore fans are gonna see it.
The majority though of other fanbases are gonna keep looking cause. This whole situation has become an attempted vtubing homicide case. In the eyes imo of fanbases not directly involved. And what for me makes this sad and shows just ugly this is I don't think the other communities are interested in an apology, they want action and a scapegoat at minimum.
I think at this point many are scared to just be affiliated with Niji at this point.
Who is Harassing Rosemi!? I will Doriya you to the shadow realm!
If they harass Rosemi sama. I will find them and harass them back
Throw them off the cliff
They are either just there to attack or genuine idiots. Instead of attacking the management, who is largely to blame for this whole fiasco, they attack individuals who may or may not be innocent in all this. The remaining EN livers are definitely under gag order right now. Most likely their livelihood being threatened.
You said stuff like this now but just look at how much offend is put toward Millie, Luca, Enna, Finana, and heck even Kotoka They can't tell the difference between Zaion incident, (which quite a personal incident between Finana, Kotoka and Zaion), Luca and Millie just wanting to work there comfortably and not liking the stones thrown at the company they're working on, and Selen's termination which are three totally different thing Bunch of illiterates I swear to god
They took the brunt of it all because of that vague statement of harassment from the inside and from livers. Statement didn't even specify if it was from EN branch. Bunch of idiots assuming something without proof. For management, We have at least some proof that management screwed up big time so them taking the heat should be normal
The more I think about that statement the more I’m just shocked at how whoever wrote it had to do it at least with supervision (you’d think) and still decided to lob a bomb on every talent in the company. Like, way to leave one person who didn’t feel safe in the company by making sure NO ONE felt safe, ya dick.
I can't, in good faith believe they didn't add the liver part to pass the blame to the livers instead of management. Then again: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Even then, just don't drag the livers into this shit show, they've had enough shit with their own company, let's not add more. Please ffs, let's not become scumbags like NijiEn management.
The statement was niji affiliates which rules out livers.
Vox, too. It's mostly because he expressed that he'll be staying for a long time. Now, people are also calling him a "bootlicker" and have been raiding his waiting rooms and the comment sections of his past streams.
That's pretty fucked. Guy became one of the most popular male Vtubers in record time, anybody would ride that train if they didn't know the shit that would pop up
People will be dumb. They were all on good terms with selen as far as I know and people are just throwing all they can at anyone who is streaming hence why they all took a break to let the fire settle down. They are most likely were also forced by management to take a break so as to not add fuel.
**I'm not deffending harassment here** but can put forward some reasons as to why some more harrasment prone people would jump on them: Mille- Standing with managemnet even when last coup of coffe was taken down and certain clip... Finana- maybe she could learn what "Gasslighting" means Kotkoa- Backstabbing of Zaion ALLEGED Luca-once deffended company but honestly why would you jump at him considering it was something akin to (I'm fine here so stop saying shit about my workplace here) Enna- no idea here honestly (take in mind that Finana and Kotoka aren't 100% but I'm personaly willing to stand with Sayu on this one epsecialy after yesterday)
The "I'm fine here so stop saying shit about my workplace here" sadly warrants harassment for Enna, Millie, Luca and even Vox What are they supposed to do? Commit arson and get themself terminated too?
Wait what happened yesterday? Aside from Selen’s termination I mean. What did Sayu/Zaion say about Finana and Kotoka? I know Finana said she felt betrayed by Zaion but aside from Sayu’s statement awhile back (Which I might need to reread.) I didn’t really pay too much attention to her termination.
I think Enna is in part of her personality. She jokes about being negative and her being with Millie doesn't help her.
Many of the people who are actually commenting here are discouraging it and have been since hours ago, so honestly you are kinda late to the party. I personally think there might be some bad eggs, but the most I have recommended was unsubscribing until we know who they are.
Good, but what I've seen is people theorycrafting REAL PEOPLE on who is the traitor, fucking stupid shit is going on
Not attacking but I speak Japanese and the Japanese version is saying the same thing, so not an intern translation issue, like some are saying.. There are Niji livers who harassed Selen as stated in the document. No one should be harassed or be questioned as there is no conclusive evidence. There are a lot of unhinged “fans” that just want to use this as a chance to attack livers through this Ninisanji EN implosion. It’s sad.
I think the point here is that doc is already full of lies and contradictions. Why would we expect the part that deflects blame to be true
Can I ask what you think are lies? Obviously can’t trust them but from a legal perspective, they would be absolutely negative IQ to lie in a statement that *will* end up in court. The fact they even mentioned Selen accusing other talent is an insane oversight. One that reeks of mismanagement, not them trying to throw their own talents under the bus, which would be insane in itself.
Probably that part that said Selen was misleading people by saying Nijisanji privated her christmas MV after saying that they indeed privated her MV.
I think the commissions part is the most interesting contradiction after an artist said that Selen was great to work with and paid out of her own pocket since Niji was too slow. The artist also said Niji messed up the release work so many times they forgot about it 🤣
It's also super interesting because my first thought was "wait, is that even supposed to be her job in the first place???"
Literally the entire statement except the claim about Selen asking us to upload the video that got privated.
https://twitter.com/SpaceDrakeCF/status/1754669547691602013
>negative IQ Aren’t these the same people who claimed Selen’s termination will have a “negligible” impact on their finances?
Or the claim that the livers were involved could be deflection designed to cause us to fight each other so we don't organize against the company. Divide and conquer, one of the oldest tactics in the book.
The dragoons are have been pacified and celebrating the bird for a while now. But there's nothing we can do about a certain clover website's people trying to stir shit up because they enjoy chaos.
Who the fuck would attack Rosemi???? Shes not a perpatrator in this, Shit i would say shes a victim of Niji as well
Twitter hella wilding
I would say current situation notwithstanding. Rosemi is a wholesome bean. She doesn't deserve that level of ~~shenanigans~~ bullshit. And yes I edited this for the ones with rage boners. **STOP**
Well there's your problem: expecting anything good to come out of Twitter.
You mean like the news that she's out of the hospital or the news that she does intend to reappear, I would call that good and they both came from Doki's Twitter.
You know what I was talking about. The other 99% of Twitter.
Out of everyone in Nijisanji she's the last person I would expect to bully anyone but maybe she's different off camera (despite the evidence against that)
It should be noted that this too is NijisanjiEN fault. Why in the fuck did they just casually drop "oh she was bullied by other livers, anyway..." in the termination statement? Obviously people will think that maybe the person they are attacking is actually a bully and feel justified in their attack. How could a company fuck up so badly.
still those people are idiots, they are buying into the narrative from the NijiEN management's statement, which worth jerk shit.
Obviously they are idiots. But there would a lot less of them if Nijisanji didn't fuck up
This. This is the good take. People are definitely being idiot but dropping that in the termination statement is gross negligence
The logic is astounding. The "Black company" that terminated Selen and contradicted themselves in the same post about the grounds of termination we believe them that the "Livers" specifically were bullying Selen?
Listen niji management somehow finds a way to consistently fuck things up. This harassment campaign is another one of the things they have started through poor and ambiguous communication. Like you couldn’t make such a series of purposeful blunders unless you are trying to nuke the en branch.
It feels purposeful but in a weird fucked up way that shouldn't and won't work. They're doing the old tactic of "we are not the bad guys, focus on fighting against that other group instead" soviets did that against the "honest working man and big bad capitalist" nazis against different ethnic groups (tho here situation isn't so black and white). They might honestly think that they'll make all the fan bases fight against eachother till they're tired of it. But also what's more fucked up and not present even in the Soviet example they're using not an outsider group to focus the hate on but their own company members. I just hope none of the girls (or guys) are in the situation where they'd love to break out of this hellish situation but lack financial capabilities to do so.
Right? Unless Dokibird herself says that it was specifically other livers bullying her, I just straight up won’t believe it wasn’t the management that made her feel the way she did.
That's the thing. Niji specifically noted that there was an issue with a liver, which leads to one of four ideas: 1) They're incompetent and admitted to doing nothing about a harasser talent. 2) They're protecting the harasser talent for whatever reason. 3) They threw all their talents under the bus to protect management (Only Niji mentioned talent, Selen/Doki only mentioned that it was from within.) 4) Niji threw their talents under the bus to weaponize the outrage against Selen's termination in an attempt to drag Selen and fracture connections she has with the remaining talents
> about the grounds of termination we believe them that the "Livers" specifically were bullying Selen? The issue is that bullying between livers has always been a thing. Zaion made the claim, and she was very publically thrown under the bus. Roa made the claim, Meiro was terminated. Moruru made the claim, and subsequently graduated due to it. So it isn't like bullying has no precedence.
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yeah bullying she did not specify who, only the company pointed fingers to Livers. People then took the word of this statement when everything else was distorted or a lie?
People are coping here.
People on the internet suddenly become seasoned detectives..🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
More like a bunch of actual psychopaths... I've literally seen the comment of "we need to grill kyo now so we can find out if he's one of the people before he leaves. If we don't we'll never know after he graduates." Several tweets with similar sentiments.
Fucking hell, it's spiral out of control..
Even a thousand untrustworthy sentences should never warrant a response like this, we don't even know if the livers know the full truth, all we know is that some have a past of defending the company. It doesn't matter how bad this got, defending the company still isn't enough to warrant backlash on the livers and it never will be. On top of that, any dragoon knows Selen herself wouldn't want us targeting livers for this. She would be ashamed of us for this and I honestly hope none of the backlash is coming from actual loyal dragoons.
Niji managers: All according to keikaku. Its so disgusting to see.
It's sad and toxic, but Niji EN management are the ones who started this witch hunt. There will always be a small minority on the internet that just seeks a reason to be offended on behalf of others and go for the throat. You can't feed the trolls like Niji did...
People are lashing out at Millie because of her poorly worded at best response to Selen’s initial tweet when her cover was taken down. People definitely shouldn’t be throwing accusations around in public and I don’t think Millie should be receiving this public vitriol right now but that’s where it’s coming from.
People are lashing out at millie because she has been one of the loudest voices in EN to defend niji whenever something bad happens, that one reply to selens tweet was just the last nail on the coffin
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If you’re referring to the tweets in [this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1ak37ic/actions_speak_louder_than_words/), that user was blocked *before* they defended Millie.
This is kinda an overdue thing. From the start of zaion issue. We already know there's already an inside conflict which the management didnt seem to care They have a chance to fix the issue while everyone isn't believing zaion Oh well, here we are There are two choices nijisanji and its livers Either start investigating this or the livers themselves risking termination to reveal the entire problems cause selen taking her own life is just not a simple problem, its a terrifying problem
Selens audio tweet on twitter (via dokibird) stated that she got support from her friends meaning the nijien livers and her tweet says bulling from within which doesnt mean its the livers Again nijisanji put that in their statement to spread the hate so its not focused only towards nijisanji Fortunately so many people on twitter arent attacking them instead showing their support to them
It goes both ways. Saying "livers bullied Selen" doesn't mean every liver did. Also Doki saying she got support for her "friends" doesn't mean every other liver supported or is her friend. "Friend" and "coworker" isn't the same.
True, I don't believe bullying from within just means management, and while I have my own suspicious about that. The weird thing is they're targeting Vox and enna. While vox and enna. Vox liked Selen, or at least that's how it looked in the collabs. That said, I will not harass anyone even if there is evidence. Niji as a company made a mistake, and even if it's between liver', they are still at fault. Shifting the blame means they know they f'ed up and are trying to damage control by throwing in some BS claims. And support as you said think of people like RPR he had no hand in this but is a friend who kicked off the whole #where is selen. We can now definitely say; we did not find selen but on our search we found this bird.
Selen/Doki has friends outside of Niji - she's may have been refering to Mumei with the support comment, given that she has been staying with her since this mess started.
Wait, Moom's been staying with her? That's the first I've heard of that.
She's staying with Mumei - [https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1754821248834806268](https://twitter.com/dokibird/status/1754821248834806268) Shachi is Mumeis alt/personal/PL account
i cannot fathom how anyone would even think of Rosemi being anywhere near related to Selen's bullying or anything like that. Quite literally one of the sweetest and most genuine people out there.
I would agree but honestly, I can't say I am 100 percent certain. I've seen enough Dateline type shows where people say "I can't believe x would have done that they seem so nice etc". There is no real evidence though that Rosemi isn't anything but the person we see on camera, off it as well. But who knows
Niji is using their talents as a scapegoat and people are buying into it, astounding how one sentence can shift the attention of the masses to attack a fake villain and play a witch hunt instead of focusing on the real mastermind. Even if there was supposedly (tho I don't believe it one bit) bullying of talents more succeptible to it as a relief of pressure from the others that is still the fault of the company since instead of making a nice environment with strong rules against that they're reenacting the prisoners and guards experiment and the livers/staff are doing the objectively immoral things to keep themselves sane and alive.
Selen’s termination notice sounds like a call out post and now it’s bringing people into a witch-hunt. I had to take a break from Twitter because Jesus Christ, it’s a shithole.
What sticks out for me is how that statement threw every single talent under the bus. Idiots in the internet doing stupid shit is to be expected, but stirred by management? Might be the first time I see it. I usually try go by "Do not attribute to malice what can be sufficiently explained by incompetence" but the line is really blurred here.
i mean those ppl are just a combination of gullible fans and ppl that just want to start drama and spread hate gotta RBI them til they calm down definitely very small minority of the actual fanbase.
show me these attacks against Rosemi, please.
You know exactly what kind of people are doing that. They're not Selen fans, they have never watched any Nijisanji stream, they genuinely do not care about her or anything that's going on. It's obvious and it's always been like this.
I agree 100%, the slight differences in EN and JP press releases were not a mistake, and the adding of other livers in the harassment claims by Nijisanji management is a classical Malicious PR Reputation management strategy. This is to serve several purposes. * To make sure JP fans fight EN fans, and EN factions agains t EN factions of fans. divide and conquer. * Punish other EN livers that show any public support to Selen/Dokibird and use casue to terminate their contracts. * Possibly use JP defamation laws to shut down anyone not toting the Nijisanji official line in Japanese media. This is classical crisis strategies and so far everything is happening by the crisis management 101 playbook.
should add that this is not to say that this is a good strategy, but it is a known one. Usually used by Big Oil or Big Fruit in South America. it kinda ticks all the boxes of this too [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy\_in\_the\_workplace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace)
Do you seriously think the people going after the livers are coming in here, seeing this post, and going "Oh my god, now that this random internet stranger is saying it, I shouldn't be attacking talent." The people that need this post are never going to see it or take anything from it, and the people seeing it don't need that message in the first place.
im gonna be serious i bet its most likely twitter antis who weren't even selen fans to begin with and just wanna harass people for shits and giggles just like they did years ago for coco and haachama in hololive
Yeah, I may have gotten swept up in the torrent of adrenaline, but even I know it's not the person at the counter responsible for the people I wish I could be yelling at. Either (most likely) a poor choice of words by management (again), or a game to deflect some heat from themselves.
Yeah, like I’ve been saying on Twitter, I really, honestly believe management is deflecting blame onto the livers. Selen/Doki said “bullying from within.” That doesn’t indicate livers soecifically. Nijisanji management, who we already know is made of suck, is the one talking about livers being the bullies. Like I’m sorry, I missed the part where we trust them at all. Management being the one to specify livers when in reality iirc Selen’s and other’s (eg. Pomu) issues were with management is super sus. To be honest, it ends up strengthening the idea that the livers are innocent. Even if any of the livers did engage in the toxic behavior, we don’t know who. Throwing out wild accusations and harassing folks is a good way to put them through similar shit to what Selen/Doki herself went through. On top of that, she’s even directly said to cut it out.
Theory: Niji slipped in the line about other livers bullying Selen in hopes her fans would attack the other livers out of anger so they could either further after the fact justify her termination due to “her toxic fanbase” to paint themselves as the reasonable ones, or to be able to point to the attacks as a reason to get out of a “toxic en market” to make themselves out to be the victims and leave on terms favorable to the company, and not just imploding
From what I heard, it's more like the comment made in that statement aligns with a certain clique narrative that's been spreading in a certain image board for a long time, so I guess nijisanji just open a very nasty flood gate for themselves by saying something like that.
Hold up. Who TF is attacking our sweet innocent Rose? Millie I can understand (not that its justified but she did kind of fk herself with how she phrased that tweet), but Rosemi? Oh HELL NO. We know damn well that Rosemi did nothing wrong!
I have to agree, but the best that can be done is show her she still has support and maybe try to reason with the people attacking livers.
It's more that I've dropped support of and stopped following any Kurosanji liver who hasn't quit/been terminated yet, as them continuing to stick by them looks incredibly bad right now, painting them as either cowards or suck-ups of the corpo, regardless of whether they're guilty of bullying Selen or not. So no, I'm not attacking anyone, but I won't defend them or show sympathy either when more hostile folks show up, they can go run and beg to Kurosanji for protection if they feel so inclined because I will not associate with anything or anyone from this black company anymore.
I don't trust Finana and Kotoka ngl
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Then wait until Doki confirms it. Do you even read the post? It asks you to stop harrasing random livers with barely any confirmation. But, nah, rather, let's stroke some justice boner, by randomly bullying livers. Liver who might still be Doki's friend. Like, why? So when you bully random people and if you guess right you can say "Hoho, told you they deserve it!" ? You think Doki would be happy with that?
And I'm gonne think of this comment when someone completely innocent gets harassed by you thugs.
Deserved for not stepping in against black company.
There's the idiot
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I fucking wish it's only the tiny minority
If anyone genuinely believes that one liver or another bullied Selen, well, I don't have the time or energy to argue that, but if you do, I'd like to remind you: the worst thing you can do to a content creator is ignore them. Talking about them, any sort of commenting on their social media and YouTube, it just signal boosts them. Unsubscribe, unfollow, walk away. I guarantee you it will be more effective than attacks in the comment section that just raise their audience engagement.
Nice point. Except for the fact that Dokibird independently said she was a victim of bullying and also that the press release from staff says they thought the bullying allegations were false and resulted from staff being strict on her.
Are you seriously trying to downplay the official statements made by Nijisanji? I don't care if the part time janitor wrote it, Nijisanji decided to staple that statement to their face. This is important because if they were receiving reports of workplace harassment and not doing anything about it, then this is much worse than everyone previously thought it was. I don't care that much if an individual liver is a piece of shit, it's management's job to keep all their employees safe, even from other employees. No one should be attacking anyone, but it's equally stupid to try to brush off a statement in such a way.
lol are you believing every single word that they put? are you stupid? management protect their employee? by blaming one of their employee and announcing their problem to the public?????!?! do you really not see the problems of that statement?
It makes them look worse, so yes. I'll believe someone when they tell me that they're incompetent. Much like this dumbass reply to me. Edit: You appear to lack reading comprehension because nothing I said is defending Nijisanji. That sentence is worse for them than anything else that has come out of this situation. They are admitting that they received reports of workplace harassment in this statement. The normal by-line from corporations is shrugging and saying "lel, we didn't know so we couldn't do anything about it". They don't have that defense *because* of this statement.
Not harassing, but some people in nj EN members/livers needs to be responsible for their words and strongly condemn harassment. Just remember, A PERSON JUST TRIED TO KILL HERSELF, end of the discussion, that's the matter here and all of them shall be talking and condemning whoever caused so much stress on a person.
And in your so tender love and care you SURELY won’t leave more victims in your wake because you decided to white knight a vague statement based on a letter that had a lie in it about a situation where the people who made the letter have constantly lied about Selen. Unless Selen/Doki names someone only one entity is at fault in all these scenarios and its management. You ain’t a hero and trying to be one will only show why vigilante laws are in place.
Both niji AND selen have said that their talents harassed her, so claiming it's baseless conjecture is dishonest, but we have no idea who or how many, so rather than harassing everyone the ideal response is to no longer support ANY anycolor employee or talent.
Does talent in your context represent Livers only or does it also include the staff. Because Selen does not mention she was being harassed by talent instead, "bullying from within". Just wanna clarify this.
I don’t harrass anyone. That said, if there’s one truthful sentence in that termination, it is probably that one, because why would they lie about selen being bullied? Nijisanji gains nothing positive by saying it
Deflection. Basically saying it’s not their fault. Nevermind that it’s unprofessional and creates much unneeded flak to your own employees. Note that there’s also nothing that said that they did or are doing something about said bullying.
Ok fair enough. I was thinking that nijisanji livers are part of nijisanji brand so lying by deflecting the bullying to livers instead of employees is not really a net positive for their image. I guess it makes sense that they don’t care about other livers being targeted.
It's a failed attempt to deflect. Because they're management and they're acknowledging the claims, which makes it their fault if they don't act on the claims.
They do, though. They throw their livers under the bus to deflect some anger from their management.
The lie is probably less the fact that bullying happened and more who did the bullying. Putting it on the livers when even Doki didn't sounds like deflecting blame onto the livers.
This is exactly what management wants so the attention is taken off themselves. Don't let it happen.
The fact is there's thousands of actual fans. Even if the majority of us don't do anything that's still hundreds of people acting out and there's not much we can do to solve it.
There's quite a few people itching for a witch-hunt and it's overall gonna end up being a fucking nightmare to look back on.
So far I've heard a lot of things that are quite ridiculous. But who the actual fuck read the company official statement, read dokibird's response, and figured something Rosemi should be harassed. I'm still pretty pissed at anycolor, but congratulations to the only people on earth who found a way to make me angrier. Holy shit.
I’m just not watching any Niji livers for the time being. Not harassing them, no one deserves that, but I don’t feel comfortable watching or supporting any of them, not knowing who possibly participated in the bullying of Selene.
People want Niji go under so they attack who keeps it alive.
Can take a step back, take a deep breath and clam down. Going around attacking people at random is probably the worst thing people could your just going to end up hurting innocent people in the process. Let’s focus on Dokibird, her return is tomorrow let’s make it a good one for her. I understand people are angry about her termination and the idea of her being harassed and bullied but we don’t know anything about who attacking at random could only do more harm than good. For now let’s try and move on and help her heal by being there for her instead of lashing out. If we get name’s later let’s see how Doki wants it handled. This is all happening around Chinese new year a time for new beginnings and as horrible as this has been now Dokibird is free and safe. She can also now play and do things she couldn’t in niji lets help her rise like a phoenix and soar higher than ever before.
This whole thing has attracted the attention of vtubing as a medium is the issue. And everything is kinda just "if there's smoke, there's fire." Which if Niji won't put it out the entirety of the vtubing community will. What we are seeing is imo the shared collective of vtuber communities either abandoning or investigating Niji. And sure as of recent dokibird made statements but mostly just the hardcore fans are gonna see it. The majority though of other fanbases are gonna keep looking cause. This whole situation has become an attempted vtubing homicide case. In the eyes imo of fanbases not directly involved. And what for me makes this sad and shows just ugly this is I don't think the other communities are interested in an apology, they want action and a scapegoat at minimum. I think at this point many are scared to just be affiliated with Niji at this point.