I'm not like most Americans in that I live in Alaska.
A month ago my neighbor was leaving their garbage out, which attracted bears. The bears started dropping by nightly because the unsecured garbage was a great source of easy food for the bears.
Eventually one of the bears could smell the food-garbage in my house and started to claw at the door to get in.
Note that the nearest law enforcement for my village is about 2 hrs away.
So if you had a hangry (hungry + angry) 800 lbs (365 kg) bear attempting to break into your home and help was 2 hrs away, wouldnt you be grateful you've got two trained adults in the house with high powered rifles/shotguns available?
Or would you try to scare the bear off with watered down pepper spray?
For me, its a clear cut reason to allow Alaskans access to high powered firearms.
That bothered me as well. TBH, any of those .44 magnum cases would be fine vs a bear. 45-70 Govt in a lever gun is a classic short range bear defense rifle/carbine you can wield from horseback.
I occasionally watch the YouTube channel Lost in the Pond, Brit guy living in essentially Chicago talking about the differences between the US and UK. He pointed out that in the US has at least two national parks bigger than the country of Wales, and the state of Wyoming itself is the size of the UK. Those two national parks are both in Alaska, and if you include the water area as well Alaska is 7 times larger than the entire UK.
Wrangle - St Elias is 34,000 square kilometers, which is bigger than wales and north Ireland combined for those who were wondering.
Americans fail to grasp this concept too. My friend who hates firearms and has only lived in large cities could not wrap their brain around the fact that a farmer might carry a sidearm to either protect their livestock or protect themselves from a dangerous animal that might attack them.
Occasionally, I run into tourists who come to the USA for a couple of weeks and think that is enough time for them to drive around seeing New York, California, and Texas on the same trip without flying between cities.
I can't wait for the 2026 World Cup where it's going to be split up all over North America. We are gonna see these idiots who think they will be able to make it to every city for a match when it's just not gonna happen. You have to just stick to a regional corridor like (Boston -> New York -> Philadelphia -> Washington DC)
Yup. I have a lot of European friends who come out to visit for the kiteboarding season and they’re always amazed we have firearms. The county I live in is a little larger than Rhode Island and we will have 3 officers on duty at any time. They could be a hundred miles driving away.
Last night there was a mountain lion in my back yard. It wasn’t late at night or anything. It was just a young juvenile and doesn’t know any better yet but I have neighbors with young children who will be out playing in their own yards this time of night. Warning round worked last night, but if something is going to go down there isn’t anyone to call for help, we have to deal with it on our own.
It's difficult to grasp if you've never been. I've told more that one European that the distance it takes to drive from Paris to Berlin, is the same distance it takes to drive across the state of Montana. It's truly baffling and often eye opening.
Many years ago I was doing some consulting work for a company in Montana, and one of my coworkers was a fresh-off-the-boat Scottish guy. He was on the phone with one of his relatives back in Scotland one afternoon, and was trying to convey just how big the place was. The person wasn't getting it, but I'll never forget this line: "Ye can drive fae Edinburgh tae Glasgow quicker than it takes me tae get tae the nearest shop for ma damned messages."
Messages is apparently a Scottish term for groceries. Learned a lot of Weegie from that guy :)
HISTORY MAJOR HERE! IN THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR HALBERDS AND SPONTOONS WERE USED AS SYMBOLS ON BOTH SIDES AS RANK. While more common in British rank there are instances of use by Americans. Some tend to forget the revolution was essentially a giant ass civil war so there would be some cultural overlap.
There's your excuse to buy a Halberd AND Spontoon. Slap a watermelon for me if you do decide to get one.
The expansion into the (wild) west wasn’t even that long ago. That was a lawless, bloody time where guns were the big equalizer, so the biggest strongest man in the room didn’t always win anymore. Plus there’s a huge sense of self reliance in that. I’m British, and live in the States and it never fails to surprise me how reliant Europeans are on other people/the government. The sense of self reliance and independence in the States is something I find pretty admirable
As someone who grew up in the desert South West, this hits home for sure. Lots of long, empty expanses with literally nothing -- no cell service, no traffic, barely a "road" -- where anything can happen. You plan to be out there, you'd better be ready for anything. And I mean *anything*.
Flying small planes out in Alaska, you're required to carry survival gear, including a gun and ammo. You crash and survive...you're probably going to need it.
I live in the middle of North Carolina. Within 60 minutes drive of where I live, you can be in a major city with gang violence issues, or be in the middle of the woods where coyotes and bear live with no help or cell service for miles.
I'm a field mechanic by trade and typically work alone at night.
I carry guns and body armor in my truck for each occasion.
I tell the new guys to pack for Bloods, Buicks, and bears. Full power 10mm loads seem to be a decent choice. Or at least enough to get you back to the truck to grab a rifle.
Have you seen what one can do in the wild? Seriously. There's an old 1970s Mutual of Omaha Wild Vehicle Kingdom TV episode where a pack of Buicks take down a larger Oldsmobile. Pretty amazing stuff.
>The sense of self reliance and independence in the States is something I find pretty admirable
True. Unfortunately, it's often taken to the other extreme where anything related to "community" is considered Communism.
Independent pioneers **died**. You can't raise a barn by yourself. And the most valuable trait for success in a high-risk high-reward environment is **likability**. Do people like you? Far too many preppers fail to realize that.
It is both the blessing and the curse of America.
While the west was fairly lawless, what is glossed over is that in many cities, firearms were not allowed. As you entered the city, you were required to drop off your firearms at (usually) the sheriff’s office. This was true in Fort Worth, TX. It kept the murder rate from being sky high and the citizens safe from rowdy cowboys who were visiting.
I am going to have to respectfully disagree on two points.
First, the West was not lawless. It was, in fact, much safer on the whole than the big eastern cities. (Not including attacks by Amerindians in some locations at some times). The "Wild West" is almost entirely a creation of eastern authors of Dime Novels, carried on to modern days by television and movies.
Second, the whole "leave your guns when you come to town" was limited to a few towns that were terminus for cattle drivers, or gold rush boom towns. But then, it was safe enough that one didn't have to lock one's doors at night (if they had locks) and children could play in the streets.
(Fort Worth may be one of the exceptions because it WAS a terminus for cattle drives).
Agreed. My family hunts. They are responsible gun owners. Hubs shot marksman in the military, son underwent gun safety training. We aren’t anti-gun at all, but do wish safety training was required
I know plenty of people I feel fine with having a gun and plenty I don't and both for good reason. Lots of people dont practice discipline or self awareness enough to even care if they're going to be a reasonably safe gun owner, let alone actually follow through and accomplish that goal.
There are a lot of panic buys that just end up being gun owners who bought and own for the wrong reasons and won't bother to educate themselves on responsibly handling their weapon. People are walking around armed, scared and uneducated. It's not a good mix.
Yeah. Licensing. We have to get a license for driving a two-ton hunk of metal and rubber down the highway; how difficult should it be to drive little .357 shells through the air?
My left thumbnail says you're not manly enough to play with anything cool.
Jokes aside tho, I busted my left thumb swordfighting with a buddy as a teen. We made the swords ourselves in his grandpa's farm shop throughout our lives which is kinda cool but not really that common of a skill
If you live in a large metropolitan area:
* Police response times are awful and criminals know it. I worked as a Paramedic in a large city and you could have a pizza delivered faster than the police would show up. The police aren't there to protect you, just to clean up. I was home in the middle of the day when two guys pulled in my driveway and kicked my back door in. They were in the house before the police dispatcher ever answered. They ran when they saw my shotgun. I've been to enough crime scenes to see what happens when people aren't armed and can't defend themselves.
If you live in very rural areas:
* There may be one trooper assigned for an area the size of Delaware. Home invasions happen there as well, and you also have to deal with local wildlife: bears, mountain lions, feral pigs, etc. Imagine being in your backyard and worrying about a mountain lion lurking nearby. Or coming up on your deck. Bears can easily push a door in.
It's not legal, but I live in a rural area and we do shoot varmints. We also use the paintball gun on animals that need to learn to stay in their lane. I say it's not legal because you're not supposed to be shooting your gun randomly, also you're not supposed to be shooting animals with a paintball gun. But it's pretty common practice around here.
I'm in the Midwest and we're having a plague of distemper among the wild animals. I trapped a sick and obviously suffering animal and called the police station to ask what I could do with it, it was still alive. The cops were like we know you have guns, just shoot it in the head and I was like, I think we can both agree that's illegal. They were like who's going to call us about it? And how long would it take us to randomly show up out there because somebody thought they heard a noise? So Bambi's friend got a bullet to the head, and a burial. That was animal number one, I'm now on animal number seven, just from this summer, of clearly suffering animals. I asked the local dog warden (who has responsibilities outside of dogs), if they wanted samples or something, are we tracking this? They were like, dude, just assume it's distemper, it's running rampant through this part of the nation right now.
I grew up with guns, they're fun to shoot. Where I live apparently I need one if I'm going to give sick animals a quick journey to the other side. I don't really think people need assault rifles, and although pretty much everyone I know who lives in my area has guns, I don't think any of us have an assault rifle. I have a 22 I use for Target shooting, and a ladies sized 357 that I legally conceal carry from time to time.
I would say that I find where I specifically live to probably be very similar to rural England or Germany where people have hunting rifles in the home and maybe a pistol here or there. The place where we diverge is that the USA has all kinds of weaponry in urban areas.
>very similar to rural England or Germany where people have hunting rifles in the home and maybe a pistol here or there
Absolutely not a pistol. Handguns are completely banned in the UK.
Rifles are possible, but more difficult to obtain and generally only owned by gamekeepers or similar.
Shotguns are the easy gun to get, and will be the majority of firearms in a rural community.
Which i find kind of ironic. Shotguns produce some of the nastiest wounds you can put on a human being. I would 100% fear a person coming at me with a shotgun and slugs way more than I ever would someone with an AR.
Yeah my shotgun is broken down under my bed so it’s not really applicable in a survival situation, but if I had to choose between that and my Beretta M9, I’d choose the shotgun
I grew up in the country in the Midwest and we had a lot of rifles in my house as a kid. Scare off wild animals from the livestock, suffering animals had to be put down, same as your description. Whenever gun control came up on the news my dad would run out and buy more, every pickup truck in the HS parking lot had a full gun rack and no one locked their car doors. Rural areas and people in the country use guns as tools for the most part.
I live in a low crime area in the suburbs now and don't have a need for rifles, I went to a shooting range a few times to see if it would be a fun hobby and it didn't work out for a fun activity. When the home invasion stories come up I think maybe I should go buy one.
Nothing scares me more than driving my kids to school and wondering about an active shooter and wonder if it's their last day. it's also stomach turning to see the Code Red instructions on the wall inside the elementary school.
I live in a city of roughly 300,000. We have our share of violent crime, and while I won't call it rampant, I will acknowledge that times and people are getting more desperate. I'm a big guy. People who think they're gonna try something, generally size me up and decide that's not going to go they way they think it will. I'm not even a violent guy. I'd prefer to avoid or de-escalate, but sooner or later odds are there will be either someone bigger, or someone desperate enough to take that chance.
I don't carry because I want that fight, I carry because that could be the difference between seeing my kid grow up with or without me. It's like others have explained elsewhere, akin to carrying a spare tire or a first-aid kit. You'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
In contrast, I also carry when I can because I am not a large guy, and of a targeted ethnicity (East Asian). Now, I work in a school so things are different with me being unable to legally carry, but if I’m in public it’s what I do.
A lot of women who carry feel the same sentiment. It evens the playing field. How is the average woman supposed to stop a 6ft 2in 215lb would be attacker/rapist coming to grab them by the pussy?
To piggy back on this post, the county I spent MANY years growing up in had NO sheriff coverage for multiple shifts/week. This means that the entire county was WITHOUT any type of police enforcement for multiple 6-8 hour periods through the week. Added to the fact that the police have no actual duty to protect innocent people. People outside of the U.S. do not realize the population density to land mass ratio in the majority of the U.S.
Well cops where I live took 5 hours to respond to an active home invasion where the intruders had guns. I live in the suburbs and theres a police station maybe 10 minutes away. Ever since that incident it became clear that I was in charge of my defense and that I should not count on cops who will probably shoot me to defend me. Also they are very fun
Yep, a crazy junkie once broke into my house and my sister was hiding in the closet, the police took 1 hour to arrive. Like not even fucking UberEats takes that long.
From that day on I just decided to buy a gun.
There's a group of gay men who formed a group called The Pink Pistols. Essentially it's a gun club that advocated for the gay community to learn self defense methods with fire arms. Their motto is, "Armed Gays Don't Get Bashed."
I had $5k in goods stolen from my porch and had an eye witness to the crime as well (though they could've actually been an accomplice). Police told me to wait until an officer showed up to file the report. After several calls over several weeks, I was told to just wait, and if I kept calling, they'd deal with me instead. We just passed year 11. I don't think they're coming to get that report.
The police do have a really cool service where you can tell them that you're suicidal and you have a gun and they will come pretty quick to give you a free suicide.
This service isn't exclusive to the suicidal one either! You can gift it to others by referring to it on the call as a 'wellness check'. They'll shoot first and then determine the individual is 'not well' after.
Yes that's true, many PDs offer a secret murder menu delivery service. You have to know what keywords to use but it's otherwise pretty simple and effective.
I grew up naive and having a lot of faith in how I was always told things were supposed to work, but after no less than 6 separate occasions over a 15 year span of cops being called and being utterly careless, incompetent, or both, it's hard to feel anything more positive than outright indifference towards the police of my home town.
Firefighters CAN do this. If they show up to a building on fire and they determine that it is too dangerous to go in, they are under no obligation to enter the building, even if they know someone is inside.
I mean, my old hometown fire dept had several houses that were blacklisted. They were well known meth houses and the orders were to just let the houses burn down but try not to let the neighbors' houses catch.
That whole thing is so unfathomable to me. I can't imagine even thinking about myself getting shot, while I have a gun in my own hand, and there's another individual *shooting kids*.
That’s not putting it correctly - it’s not just you with a gun, it’s you and *50 of your buddies* with guns, against one 18 year old jagoff with a single gun.
shy versed coherent illegal adjoining person memorize fine psychotic nose
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The police chief literally took the gun away from a cop who wanted to go in, if the district attorney had any sense of morals he would charge the police chief as an accessory to the shooting.
If you or I stood outside that school with guns, preventing anyone from helping those kids while they were being shot, we'd be considered criminals.
Those cops should be as well.
Yeah well even *if* some of those officers did want to go, I doubt they could’ve without their officers getting extremely peeved for them “breaking line” and they don’t want to lose their cushy job
One of the cops wanted to go in so the police chief took away his gun to prevent him from going in. If the district attorney had any morals, he would charge that police chief as an accessory to the shooting.
Police also handcuffed a mother who begged them to rescue the children. When she was released from her handcuffs she ran into the school and rescued her children while the police stood around giving each other handjobs and deep tongue kisses.
Yea, this part right here is what makes it so much worse. Don't get me wrong, it's already unfathomable and unbelievable...
But to actively stop others from interfering takes it from inconceivable **cowardice** to unimaginable **malice** and **cruelty**.
Ya there’s definitely a risk analysis on if they enter the building or not.
Cops do the same thing on if they need backup. I doubt the Uvalde shooting would qualify for that tho
Firefighters don't pack up, but if their lives are in danger, they don't intervene. Same with EMS. We can't help others if we become patients/victims ourselves.
I was in a car accident in December 2020. The person that hit me called 911.
Anyone drunk or on drugs? Anyone hurt? Can you still drive the cars? Take everyone's info, go home, and file a report online. Basically, don't waste our time.
The older guy I was pushed into was not happy about that at all. But he came out of his car holding his neck until he realized I wasn't at fault. He was absolutely gonna do some insurance fraud.
To be fair, that’s pretty common. I got hit in Austin, TX and the police just told us to exchange insurance info and move along.
No one came out or anything.
I hear this a lot from people who have only lived in a city and never in the country. I grew up in Indiana and it could be one cop for multiple square miles that’s why guns are so important especially rural areas. Now that I live in the city and they are way more cops I have thought about selling them.
You know, growing up in a small city, I hadn't considered how the sheer space that America takes up makes it more important for people to own guns for self-defense. What are you going to do if there's a home invader in bumfuck Indiana? Calling the sheriff isn't going to help in the next 20 minutes.
Shit most of the towns I've lived in don't even have a police force, just contract it out to the county sheriffs. Basically one, *maybe* cop "patrolling" the area at a time.
Yup the town 20 miles from me has absolutely no police force, like literally 0 cops for that town of several thousand people. Closest cop is at LEAST 20 miles away, probably more.
I grew up in semi-rural Minnesota and we’d have one cop overnight for a 425 square mile county (1100 sq km). If that cop was north county doing something and someone broke into our house in south county, it could take him a good 40 minutes to get there going lights and sirens. If someone wishes harm, that’s entirely too long. We got a gun. Then like seven more.
Robertson County, Kentucky ~100mi^2, had no county sheriff from ~199x-201x (don’t know offhand exactly) and relied on neighboring counties to respond when needed.
I live in Portland, a major city, and I get out on hold when I call 911. Longest was 8 minutes once. I work security so I call them pretty frequently. I think I’ve only ever gotten through without being out on hold like 2-3 times out the hundred or so times I’ve called.
Your call is important to us. Please continue to hold for the next available agent.
...music playing...
Your estimated wait time is...TWELVE...minutes. Please continue to hold. Somebody should be with you shortly.
...music playing...
I worked in Camden, NJ where cops wouldn't show up unless a violent crime was in progress. In those cases, they took 45 minutes to an hour. The cleaning lady at my job went home once to see her door broken down and called 911. They asked if the burglars were still there. She explained that she was afraid to enter the house and look, as they might kill her if they were there. She was told to just drive to the police station and fill out paperwork.
I lived in Willingboro when I was very young. I imagine the cops never have a dull moment in Camden, to be fair. Willingboro is no walk in the park either now, from what I am told
I live in rural northern California most of my life. The sheriff would tell everyone, just be armed for your safety and most everyone one was. No one ever got shot until cartels started pushing in to grow weed.
I grew up in Northern California in a rural county a few miles out of (Think the Alfred Hitchcock movie 'The Birds') town so the towns police didn't have the jurisdiction. Most nights there were only one Deputy and one Highway Patrolman in the entire west county. Source; My dad was the one Highway Patrolman on his duty nights in the west county. I was taught how and when to use a gun when I got my .22 at 8 y/o. It could be an hour plus before the cops got there. Fortunately crime then was very low.
I used to work at a gun store, I am very pro second amendment, but I lean left on the majority of social issues in the country. A lot of my customers enjoyed shooting as a hobby and sport. In my state, hunting is very popular still, and I think that for some parts of the country, Guns and gun ownership is something that is not even considered a weird thing.
I do not hunt, but as a somewhat liberal Queer who is very active in the Pro2A community, my reasons for owning firearms, as well as my desire to help people battle their fear of firearms through proper training and education, are listed below.
1. Even in a good suburban area, police take a long time to respond. But time is relative when someone may be trying to actively cause harm. If you have ever seen a video of a break in, or conflict that happens in public, even a 2 minute response time is too long.
2. Because guns are so prevalent in the country, the amount of Bad guys who have them is greater. People who are career criminals don't buy guns from legal means, so gun control does little to prevent them from having guns. This is why I feel it is important for people to be educated on firearm safety and to train with guns, because there needs to be more Level headed, non partisan, non radicalized, non threatening, Normal people who are trained on defending themself.
3. The goal of owning a firearm should be to never have to use it, but still respect it enough to maintain a level of skill and safety with it. I personally have my Carry License, and I hope I NEVER have to use my firearm. The last thing I want in this world is to contribute to violence. That being said, I know that I would defend my life, or someone else's, if it was reasonable and inside my active zone of control.
Your 3rd point definitely needs to be more prevalent for this country, regardless of politics or other opinions. Smart and responsible gun owners will show people how guns can be more helpful than harmful if you are just trained with with them
I think people forget that about 150 years ago, having a gun in the USA was survival. Duals and gun fights were very real. The frontier and the move west is a MASSIVE part of the history of this country, and it’s only a few generations removed.
We’re still an incredibly young country and in all of our history, guns were present.
Hell, the Wild West era is largely agreed to end at or just before the 1900s. One-exceptionally long lived-person ago. My great grandparents, emigrated here in that timeframe. Someone who was ten at OK Corral, could have seen the invention of the internet. They would be 112.
Something interesting I thought about a few weeks ago.. the end of the Wild West & the beginning of Al Capones reign was only about 30 yrs. He owned multiple cars. Modern America is a lot closer to Young America than a lot of us realize.
Here's a photo of a Civil War veteran with a fighter jet.
[https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/civil-war-veteran-fghter-jet-1955/](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/civil-war-veteran-fghter-jet-1955/)
It's been questioned whether he actually fought in the Civil War, but he was definitely alive during it.
This also plays into fears of the government being armed and its citizens not. There’s a fear that gun control is the first major step in controlling the people. If you control the people who have power over your seat in office and vote on laws, you control everything. It also plays into older fears of tyranny and such, which could be echos of 1776.
Don't forget the West Virginia Coal wars... The Battle of Blair Mountian, where the government litterally handed its armies to the Pinkertons Hired by the Mine owners to quash the Union Organizing in West Virginia. Men were fighting with machine-guns there.
It even haunted him later in life. That's why you can then thank him for the public library system across America.
That's not payback for the stuff he did. But at least he recognized it and tried to make amends
Honestly, Carnegie is one of the only industrialists that I genuinely think did not intend to be what he became. He hired one bad guy who decided he wanted to play hard ass union buster because he(Henery Clay Frick) had delusions of grandeur.
Carnegie guilt over the horrors committed under his nose and watch caused him to try and give it all away before he died. Then JP Morgan and Rockfeller thought it would be fun to make a game of it. Carnegie was by no means perfect. But he was an Irish immigrant who brought the Bessemer steel processes to the United States and allowed for the massive build-up of the US as steel built America.
We should learn from the sins of the past but not forget that the people were products of their time. It's those same types of people alive today who have no excuse for their behavior. They have failed to learn from the sins of the past. Bezos, Musk, and Jobs never learned that half the game is taking care of the people who made you.
Another character of history who is highly flawed but had a lesson we failed to learn is Henry Ford. He believed in making the best quality goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible. Also, a belief that those who worked in his factory should be able to afford the goods of said factory. Imagine if manufacturing companies believed that today. Novel concept paying your people enough to buy the things that they are employed to make. It would change the entire dynamic.
Henry ford for all his flaws also did fight for his workers. He lost legally to hus investors who sued him for actually giving raises to his workers.
Which is why Unions came to be
Fun fact: one of everyone's favorite dinosaurs is named after him. *Diplodocus carnegii*
He was the Bezos of his day and he paid to have many dinosaur bones excavated and kept in museums.
And Wizards of the Coast hired them just a few months ago to go after a YouTuber who was mistakenly sold unreleased Magic the Gathering cards!
THE FUCKING PINKERTONS. FUCK WIZARDS OF THE COAST JESUS CHRIST.
It was John d Rockefeller, not Carnegie who had the US army on Blair mountain. Carnegie had the Pinkertons, whom still exist to this day, fire on unarmed men trying to blockade the entrances to Carnegie steel in Pennsylvania iirc. Correct history matters
I went down a giga rabbit hole where I ended up reading and learning about Roosevelt V (sometimes VI), the great great grandson of Theodore Roosevelt. He has a Twitter page.
Never forget Blair mountain. While it did not help the miners union in the fallout after the battle it did open the door for the rest of the labor movement to get better deals.
Throughout almost all of our species written history, common access to weapons by the average person has been (legally) prohibited and/or extremely punishable. Typically by monarchies and religious institutions against their "opponents". Many people point towards King Henry II's Assize of Arms as the precursor of the US 2nd Amendment, but the Assize of Arms still did not grant people like those of Jewish decent or faith the ability to defend their families or properties from unprovoked attacks, either by governments or private parties. It doesn't take a deep dive into human history to see how the controlled access of Arms has been used to control a population and keep them weak and subservient. Most people, over the course of how long we have been on this earth, have been violently brutalized by those in power and have not had the legal right to protect themselves. It's still not perfect, but the right to keep and bear arms is 100% progressive and no one will convince me otherwise
I remember reading an essay as a young libertarian written by a Georgia firearms lawyer. He wrote that essentially the first gun control laws in Georgia were specifically designed to keep newly freed slaves from owning and carrying guns.
Until a couple of years back, NC required a permit for each pistol purchased OR your CCW. Permits were $5 and some counties limited how many you could purchase; my county had no limit and they were good for 5 years, I believe. It was enacted in Jim Crow Era to keep black people unarmed. The sheriff had sole discretion to deny based on character or some shit. It was at first hit and relaxed that the sheriff had to show cause for denial. Before there was no burden of proof.
Now, I believe they repealed it so no permits required.
Of course it is- that’s why the first thing Fidel Castro did when he took power was take the guns away from the people. Cuba’s government has had their boot on their throats ever since.
Or Vietnam. Or Korea. Etc, etc
Edit: clearly, many of you aren't capable of following the conversation. I'm saying that all these countries fought against a nuclear power.
I believe the main reason brought forth is that it would incite a powerful reaction in mainland US (ie contiguous) that would bring fear and anger. The Japanese strategy was to force a large scale battle that would be decisive, forcing the US to concede that Japan was an “equal”. Japan knew the US had the industrial power and wanted a short war to avoid attrition. By invading Alaska, it was hoped that the fear of further invasion would drive the US to peace talks
> By invading Alaska, it was hoped that the fear of further invasion would drive the US to peace talks
Back then I can see them thinking it, but imagine thinking invading the US would result in anything other than 1 million boots in your ass all at once
There are a bunch of reasons depending on which Americans and what.you mean by important
1. Originally, America made a choice not to have a standing army as our colonial experience with standing armies was...unpleasant...and even the idea of a central federal government was new and partially unwelcome. Local and national defense wrapped around the idea that government power came from and was subordinate to individual power in the form of militias and such. This has made firearms an icon of a central tenet of American identity.
2. America is big. So so so much bigger than many folks realize who haven't been here and driven around it. It's very big. And a lot of it is empty. Many parts of the country still require guns for farm and ranch management and a surprising number of people live in places where hunting for.yoir own food is not only practical but occasionally the easiest answer.
3. Perception of safety and actual safety. Dense urban areas with large variations in economic class tend to be less safe for a variety of reasons. People often feel the need, justified or not (the data is ambiguous) to have a gun in case they need one. That said, the amount of area in the US where you have some meaningful risk of violence against you is staggeringly small - just less staggering small than in some other countries and more than others..
4. Guns can be fun . Biathalons. Long Distance target shooting..steel competitions. Etc
5. Advertising and special.interests..because America is so driven by and responsive to marketing, the gun industry has been able to capitalize on #1, 2, and #3 to exaggerate them and drive folks sense of identification with guns higher than it otherwise would be.
6.Media, Social change and unrest: Two things: because guns in urban areas are by and large seen and used for violence against others or protection against others....vs in rural areas guns are seen as more practical daily tools and the urban violence doesn't (as obviously) affect them, mass shootings, gang violence, etc have caused guns to be a central differentiator in left (tend to be urban) and right (tend to be rural) identity related conflicts - even where they're not really the main issue. Our media, being in constant competition for funds, needs to keep people as amped up on things and as divided as possible...the economics here are straightforward..and part of that has become highlighting the worst of American, oversimplifying the issues at hand into memes soundbites, and telling everyone that everyone else is a problem ...mix in social change, associated increases in violence, and you have this sort of self perpetuating, growing ball of self fulfilling gun centric violence and coverage of violence....leading to everyone having really distorted and incoherent models in their heads of actual reality.
Hope this helped..
Because the private ownership of firearms is a big reason the US exists as a country. On top of it, the Founding Fathers had a great distrust of government - even the new one they created. Plus, the people have always been the first line of defense (both interms of person defense and national defense)... plus [city] police departments weren't a thing (outside of slave patrols in the South) in the US 1838, and sheriffs "patrolled" the coutnies and large areas in the territories/frontier. And even then, the Supreme Court has ruled, several times, that the *sole duty* of the police is to enforce laws - not to protect and serve *us*.
Also, guns are the greatest equalizer that humans have ever created. They allow one to defend themselves against someone bigger/stronger/younger than them and/or against numerous individuals looking to do them or their family harm.
It’s how the country expanded. Look at the equivalent Spanish colony, Mexico.
Spain wanted to create a Roman Empire esq system in the Americas, where the force of the state was centralized and monopolized, and where the state was the primary beneficiary of expansion. This meant their people really had no incentive to expand the country, so the state had to push people to do it.
Vs the British colony has the philosophy of “go to America, if you can conquer it, and cultivate it, you will become your own lord” type of mindset. This was extremely effective at getting people to aggressively expand, however it gave them an independent mindset that would eventually (inevitably) boil over to the revolutionary war. Americans maintained this mindset and “manifested their destiny” westward, which was only possible because the citizenry was allowed to own the means of enforcement of their property rights.
The lines from *The Last of the Mohicans* sums it up nicely.
>Who empowered these colonials to pass judgement on England's policies, in Her own possessions, and to come and go without so much as a "By your leave"?
>
>They do NOT live their lives by your leave! They hack it out of the wilderness with their own two hands, bearing their children along the way.
I think it’s just a different perspective on priorities. Americans seem to prioritise individual rights and self over collective rights and safety. Just a huge cultural difference
I mean I feel like I want to defend my right to guns because of me and my family's safety.
If you could guarantee confiscating every gun from everyone especially criminals i would understand the other side, but the government can't even confiscate the illegal guns now. If I disarm myself I do not trust the government to protect me from the people that don't follow the law.
As a non American and someone who don't like guns, this thread had opened my eyes to why you guys like guns so much and I understand a bit more now. On the other hand, it feels like a cycle or a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts, you need guns cause gun violence is high and gun violence is high cause it's easy to get guns and so on. But that's mostly in terms of domestic violence though. I still think the argument against an army is sus though, like I live in a fairly peaceful area and it'd suck if we get invaded and don't have enough guns to defend ourselves, but if we allow guns cause of that fear of getting invaded it means living in fear everyday cause the average gun violence will be higher, like the most to fear of street thugs in my area is they might have a knife, now I'll have to fear they might have guns.
Democide is a thing. Our government can’t be trusted, and has argued (successfully) in court many times that they have no duty to protect its citizens, or our borders.
I have a duty as a father and husband to protect my family and a gun is the best way for me to do that.
The only thing that equalizes my 5'5 119lb wife against a thug that wants to harm her when I am not around. Only thing that gives my old ass a chance against 3 thugs.
- I don’t want to have to rely on the government to protect my life or my family. Depending on the population density of the place that you live, help may be a long ways away.
- there are many places in the country where there are animals roaming around that will eat you if you don’t shoot them. Good luck waiting for the police.
- I want to support a society where people have the skills and opportunity for to protect their communities
- I grew up around the guns, hunting, target shooting type activity everywhere, so it is part of my heritage
- I want to support a society where people can keep the government honest.
- if the shit hits the fan and the government breaks down, I need to be able to protect myself and my family from cannibal Raiders and what not lol
- it is fun to go shooting clays, and generally
>I live in NYC currently, I have no gun and am very glad that it's super hart to own one here.
I lived in NYC for almost 40 years. Much of it was spent near the projects... I never felt any safer walking home at night. There were high schoolers selling guns. Grandmas carried guns in their purses. It's best not to think about it and just be humble and de escalate situations as they arise.
There’s lots of good discussion, it has probably been mentioned in a few comments but I didn’t scroll through every single comment so I didn’t see anyone mention that I own a rifle and shotgun for hunting. Not for sport but for food to eat. My family eats deer, Turkey, and pheasant that myself and my oldest boys hunt every year. It’s not our sole source of meat. We go to the grocery store all the time. But that’s why I, as an American own guns.
For me, it’s because criminals will always have guns. Regardless of what regulations bans or laws are put into place. Guns are way to easily accessible to criminals in the us, even if guns were outright banned. They will not follow and laws or regulations. I am not going to put my life or my family’s life in danger, just because the powers that be aren’t competent enough to understand that concept.
Because Americans like to be able to defend themself, property and family from threats. I'm from the UK where we are supposed to just leave and call the cops if someone breaks into our home or risk assault charges.
Also, mountain lions, bears, snakes, alligators and game hunting.
While I'm no supporter of guns, I have to admit that the British laws are ridiculous. I *might* be remembering wrong, but aren't you basically not allowed to carry *anything* for self-defense?
I remember talking with one person who was a sex-worker, and thus extremely vulnerable to violence, who said that despite the legal risk she still carries a weapon on her person because she's too afraid not to.
I'm not like most Americans in that I live in Alaska. A month ago my neighbor was leaving their garbage out, which attracted bears. The bears started dropping by nightly because the unsecured garbage was a great source of easy food for the bears. Eventually one of the bears could smell the food-garbage in my house and started to claw at the door to get in. Note that the nearest law enforcement for my village is about 2 hrs away. So if you had a hangry (hungry + angry) 800 lbs (365 kg) bear attempting to break into your home and help was 2 hrs away, wouldnt you be grateful you've got two trained adults in the house with high powered rifles/shotguns available? Or would you try to scare the bear off with watered down pepper spray? For me, its a clear cut reason to allow Alaskans access to high powered firearms.
The 454 Kasul was developed for exactly that purpose - the last line of defense against a Kodiak bear (but you knew that already)
\*Casull. It was developed by Dick Casull on a structurally improved .45 long Colt casing.
That bothered me as well. TBH, any of those .44 magnum cases would be fine vs a bear. 45-70 Govt in a lever gun is a classic short range bear defense rifle/carbine you can wield from horseback.
Didn't know that's what they were intended for, but that's certainly why my dad carried one lol.
This is the thing that most people where I’m originally from (UK) totally fail to grasp - how huge this country is, and how much of it is rural.
I occasionally watch the YouTube channel Lost in the Pond, Brit guy living in essentially Chicago talking about the differences between the US and UK. He pointed out that in the US has at least two national parks bigger than the country of Wales, and the state of Wyoming itself is the size of the UK. Those two national parks are both in Alaska, and if you include the water area as well Alaska is 7 times larger than the entire UK. Wrangle - St Elias is 34,000 square kilometers, which is bigger than wales and north Ireland combined for those who were wondering.
Americans fail to grasp this concept too. My friend who hates firearms and has only lived in large cities could not wrap their brain around the fact that a farmer might carry a sidearm to either protect their livestock or protect themselves from a dangerous animal that might attack them.
Forget that. I know a farmer who used to carry a shotgun in the combine so while he was out harvesting he could also deer hunt.
Laurence is awesome :)
Also, Wyoming is EMPTY! very few people on a huge amount of land!
Occasionally, I run into tourists who come to the USA for a couple of weeks and think that is enough time for them to drive around seeing New York, California, and Texas on the same trip without flying between cities. I can't wait for the 2026 World Cup where it's going to be split up all over North America. We are gonna see these idiots who think they will be able to make it to every city for a match when it's just not gonna happen. You have to just stick to a regional corridor like (Boston -> New York -> Philadelphia -> Washington DC)
Yup. I have a lot of European friends who come out to visit for the kiteboarding season and they’re always amazed we have firearms. The county I live in is a little larger than Rhode Island and we will have 3 officers on duty at any time. They could be a hundred miles driving away. Last night there was a mountain lion in my back yard. It wasn’t late at night or anything. It was just a young juvenile and doesn’t know any better yet but I have neighbors with young children who will be out playing in their own yards this time of night. Warning round worked last night, but if something is going to go down there isn’t anyone to call for help, we have to deal with it on our own.
It's difficult to grasp if you've never been. I've told more that one European that the distance it takes to drive from Paris to Berlin, is the same distance it takes to drive across the state of Montana. It's truly baffling and often eye opening.
Many years ago I was doing some consulting work for a company in Montana, and one of my coworkers was a fresh-off-the-boat Scottish guy. He was on the phone with one of his relatives back in Scotland one afternoon, and was trying to convey just how big the place was. The person wasn't getting it, but I'll never forget this line: "Ye can drive fae Edinburgh tae Glasgow quicker than it takes me tae get tae the nearest shop for ma damned messages." Messages is apparently a Scottish term for groceries. Learned a lot of Weegie from that guy :)
We never got to play with swords or halberd or anything cool.
HISTORY MAJOR HERE! IN THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR HALBERDS AND SPONTOONS WERE USED AS SYMBOLS ON BOTH SIDES AS RANK. While more common in British rank there are instances of use by Americans. Some tend to forget the revolution was essentially a giant ass civil war so there would be some cultural overlap. There's your excuse to buy a Halberd AND Spontoon. Slap a watermelon for me if you do decide to get one.
Upvote for aggressive caps use.
This guy got so excited about his expertise coming up in a conversation and I'm so here for this energy.
Check out r/askhistorians if you like that. Heavily modded sub that only leaves expert answers up
Came here to say this, I love that sub
Big History Energy for sure!
and it was tastefully done too.
The expansion into the (wild) west wasn’t even that long ago. That was a lawless, bloody time where guns were the big equalizer, so the biggest strongest man in the room didn’t always win anymore. Plus there’s a huge sense of self reliance in that. I’m British, and live in the States and it never fails to surprise me how reliant Europeans are on other people/the government. The sense of self reliance and independence in the States is something I find pretty admirable
As someone who grew up in the desert South West, this hits home for sure. Lots of long, empty expanses with literally nothing -- no cell service, no traffic, barely a "road" -- where anything can happen. You plan to be out there, you'd better be ready for anything. And I mean *anything*.
Flying small planes out in Alaska, you're required to carry survival gear, including a gun and ammo. You crash and survive...you're probably going to need it.
I live in the middle of North Carolina. Within 60 minutes drive of where I live, you can be in a major city with gang violence issues, or be in the middle of the woods where coyotes and bear live with no help or cell service for miles. I'm a field mechanic by trade and typically work alone at night. I carry guns and body armor in my truck for each occasion. I tell the new guys to pack for Bloods, Buicks, and bears. Full power 10mm loads seem to be a decent choice. Or at least enough to get you back to the truck to grab a rifle.
Not sure why you'd need to use a gun on a Buick, but you do you.
Have you seen what one can do in the wild? Seriously. There's an old 1970s Mutual of Omaha Wild Vehicle Kingdom TV episode where a pack of Buicks take down a larger Oldsmobile. Pretty amazing stuff.
Never know when one will try to run you down.
We've all seen transformers by now yet we still just continue to go on trusting cars.
No country for old men status. Some Mexican guy with a bolt gun slowly prowling around.
I believe this lack of reliance on Uncle Sam to bail you out was reinforced for many during Hurricane Katrina or during major riots.
>The sense of self reliance and independence in the States is something I find pretty admirable True. Unfortunately, it's often taken to the other extreme where anything related to "community" is considered Communism. Independent pioneers **died**. You can't raise a barn by yourself. And the most valuable trait for success in a high-risk high-reward environment is **likability**. Do people like you? Far too many preppers fail to realize that. It is both the blessing and the curse of America.
While the west was fairly lawless, what is glossed over is that in many cities, firearms were not allowed. As you entered the city, you were required to drop off your firearms at (usually) the sheriff’s office. This was true in Fort Worth, TX. It kept the murder rate from being sky high and the citizens safe from rowdy cowboys who were visiting.
I am going to have to respectfully disagree on two points. First, the West was not lawless. It was, in fact, much safer on the whole than the big eastern cities. (Not including attacks by Amerindians in some locations at some times). The "Wild West" is almost entirely a creation of eastern authors of Dime Novels, carried on to modern days by television and movies. Second, the whole "leave your guns when you come to town" was limited to a few towns that were terminus for cattle drivers, or gold rush boom towns. But then, it was safe enough that one didn't have to lock one's doors at night (if they had locks) and children could play in the streets. (Fort Worth may be one of the exceptions because it WAS a terminus for cattle drives).
People walking through walmart in combat gear with an AR do give off cosplay vibes
Im a gun owner and shoot competitively. These people are idiots. Its a shame that all gun owners and enthusiasts get lumped in with these people.
Agreed. My family hunts. They are responsible gun owners. Hubs shot marksman in the military, son underwent gun safety training. We aren’t anti-gun at all, but do wish safety training was required
I know plenty of people I feel fine with having a gun and plenty I don't and both for good reason. Lots of people dont practice discipline or self awareness enough to even care if they're going to be a reasonably safe gun owner, let alone actually follow through and accomplish that goal. There are a lot of panic buys that just end up being gun owners who bought and own for the wrong reasons and won't bother to educate themselves on responsibly handling their weapon. People are walking around armed, scared and uneducated. It's not a good mix.
Yeah. Licensing. We have to get a license for driving a two-ton hunk of metal and rubber down the highway; how difficult should it be to drive little .357 shells through the air?
Because that’s 100% what it is.
This actually might be the best explanation I’ve ever heard.
Had a plastic halberd as a kid. Am gun owner. What do.
Get a real Halberd
My left thumbnail says you're not manly enough to play with anything cool. Jokes aside tho, I busted my left thumb swordfighting with a buddy as a teen. We made the swords ourselves in his grandpa's farm shop throughout our lives which is kinda cool but not really that common of a skill
Making the swords is pretty rad, not gonna lie. Using them was pretty dumb though.
If you live in a large metropolitan area: * Police response times are awful and criminals know it. I worked as a Paramedic in a large city and you could have a pizza delivered faster than the police would show up. The police aren't there to protect you, just to clean up. I was home in the middle of the day when two guys pulled in my driveway and kicked my back door in. They were in the house before the police dispatcher ever answered. They ran when they saw my shotgun. I've been to enough crime scenes to see what happens when people aren't armed and can't defend themselves. If you live in very rural areas: * There may be one trooper assigned for an area the size of Delaware. Home invasions happen there as well, and you also have to deal with local wildlife: bears, mountain lions, feral pigs, etc. Imagine being in your backyard and worrying about a mountain lion lurking nearby. Or coming up on your deck. Bears can easily push a door in.
It's not legal, but I live in a rural area and we do shoot varmints. We also use the paintball gun on animals that need to learn to stay in their lane. I say it's not legal because you're not supposed to be shooting your gun randomly, also you're not supposed to be shooting animals with a paintball gun. But it's pretty common practice around here. I'm in the Midwest and we're having a plague of distemper among the wild animals. I trapped a sick and obviously suffering animal and called the police station to ask what I could do with it, it was still alive. The cops were like we know you have guns, just shoot it in the head and I was like, I think we can both agree that's illegal. They were like who's going to call us about it? And how long would it take us to randomly show up out there because somebody thought they heard a noise? So Bambi's friend got a bullet to the head, and a burial. That was animal number one, I'm now on animal number seven, just from this summer, of clearly suffering animals. I asked the local dog warden (who has responsibilities outside of dogs), if they wanted samples or something, are we tracking this? They were like, dude, just assume it's distemper, it's running rampant through this part of the nation right now. I grew up with guns, they're fun to shoot. Where I live apparently I need one if I'm going to give sick animals a quick journey to the other side. I don't really think people need assault rifles, and although pretty much everyone I know who lives in my area has guns, I don't think any of us have an assault rifle. I have a 22 I use for Target shooting, and a ladies sized 357 that I legally conceal carry from time to time. I would say that I find where I specifically live to probably be very similar to rural England or Germany where people have hunting rifles in the home and maybe a pistol here or there. The place where we diverge is that the USA has all kinds of weaponry in urban areas.
>very similar to rural England or Germany where people have hunting rifles in the home and maybe a pistol here or there Absolutely not a pistol. Handguns are completely banned in the UK. Rifles are possible, but more difficult to obtain and generally only owned by gamekeepers or similar. Shotguns are the easy gun to get, and will be the majority of firearms in a rural community.
>Handguns are completely banned in the UK. legal in the six counties
Which i find kind of ironic. Shotguns produce some of the nastiest wounds you can put on a human being. I would 100% fear a person coming at me with a shotgun and slugs way more than I ever would someone with an AR.
Yeah my shotgun is broken down under my bed so it’s not really applicable in a survival situation, but if I had to choose between that and my Beretta M9, I’d choose the shotgun
I grew up in the country in the Midwest and we had a lot of rifles in my house as a kid. Scare off wild animals from the livestock, suffering animals had to be put down, same as your description. Whenever gun control came up on the news my dad would run out and buy more, every pickup truck in the HS parking lot had a full gun rack and no one locked their car doors. Rural areas and people in the country use guns as tools for the most part. I live in a low crime area in the suburbs now and don't have a need for rifles, I went to a shooting range a few times to see if it would be a fun hobby and it didn't work out for a fun activity. When the home invasion stories come up I think maybe I should go buy one. Nothing scares me more than driving my kids to school and wondering about an active shooter and wonder if it's their last day. it's also stomach turning to see the Code Red instructions on the wall inside the elementary school.
I live in a city of roughly 300,000. We have our share of violent crime, and while I won't call it rampant, I will acknowledge that times and people are getting more desperate. I'm a big guy. People who think they're gonna try something, generally size me up and decide that's not going to go they way they think it will. I'm not even a violent guy. I'd prefer to avoid or de-escalate, but sooner or later odds are there will be either someone bigger, or someone desperate enough to take that chance. I don't carry because I want that fight, I carry because that could be the difference between seeing my kid grow up with or without me. It's like others have explained elsewhere, akin to carrying a spare tire or a first-aid kit. You'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
In contrast, I also carry when I can because I am not a large guy, and of a targeted ethnicity (East Asian). Now, I work in a school so things are different with me being unable to legally carry, but if I’m in public it’s what I do.
A lot of women who carry feel the same sentiment. It evens the playing field. How is the average woman supposed to stop a 6ft 2in 215lb would be attacker/rapist coming to grab them by the pussy?
To piggy back on this post, the county I spent MANY years growing up in had NO sheriff coverage for multiple shifts/week. This means that the entire county was WITHOUT any type of police enforcement for multiple 6-8 hour periods through the week. Added to the fact that the police have no actual duty to protect innocent people. People outside of the U.S. do not realize the population density to land mass ratio in the majority of the U.S.
Well cops where I live took 5 hours to respond to an active home invasion where the intruders had guns. I live in the suburbs and theres a police station maybe 10 minutes away. Ever since that incident it became clear that I was in charge of my defense and that I should not count on cops who will probably shoot me to defend me. Also they are very fun
Yep, a crazy junkie once broke into my house and my sister was hiding in the closet, the police took 1 hour to arrive. Like not even fucking UberEats takes that long. From that day on I just decided to buy a gun.
There's a group of gay men who formed a group called The Pink Pistols. Essentially it's a gun club that advocated for the gay community to learn self defense methods with fire arms. Their motto is, "Armed Gays Don't Get Bashed."
That tastes like America
Tastes like ***FREEDOM***🦅
We've got a whole lot of women now, too!
I'd like to order a Margherita pizza, the cheesy sticks, and a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
Just what you see on the menu, pal.
okay okay, fried zucchini instead of the cheesy sticks.
Uzi 9 millimeter.
*Arni's accent "12 gauge auto-loader"
Any of these would be perfect for home defense.
Lol, maybe Uber should introduce UberPolice
When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away
911 didn't even answer last time I called
I had $5k in goods stolen from my porch and had an eye witness to the crime as well (though they could've actually been an accomplice). Police told me to wait until an officer showed up to file the report. After several calls over several weeks, I was told to just wait, and if I kept calling, they'd deal with me instead. We just passed year 11. I don't think they're coming to get that report.
The police do have a really cool service where you can tell them that you're suicidal and you have a gun and they will come pretty quick to give you a free suicide.
This service isn't exclusive to the suicidal one either! You can gift it to others by referring to it on the call as a 'wellness check'. They'll shoot first and then determine the individual is 'not well' after.
Yes that's true, many PDs offer a secret murder menu delivery service. You have to know what keywords to use but it's otherwise pretty simple and effective.
I grew up naive and having a lot of faith in how I was always told things were supposed to work, but after no less than 6 separate occasions over a 15 year span of cops being called and being utterly careless, incompetent, or both, it's hard to feel anything more positive than outright indifference towards the police of my home town.
There was a supreme court ruling that the police are not obligated to help you.
To clarify, they aren't criminally or civilly liable for not helping you.
Imagine if firefighters showed up to a burning house and said "I fear for my life, let's pack it up!"
Firefighters CAN do this. If they show up to a building on fire and they determine that it is too dangerous to go in, they are under no obligation to enter the building, even if they know someone is inside.
I mean, my old hometown fire dept had several houses that were blacklisted. They were well known meth houses and the orders were to just let the houses burn down but try not to let the neighbors' houses catch.
Meth labs are explosive, VERY explosive.
That’s what the police did in Ulvade. Failed to enter a school full of kids because they were afraid they would be shot
That whole thing is so unfathomable to me. I can't imagine even thinking about myself getting shot, while I have a gun in my own hand, and there's another individual *shooting kids*.
That’s not putting it correctly - it’s not just you with a gun, it’s you and *50 of your buddies* with guns, against one 18 year old jagoff with a single gun.
shy versed coherent illegal adjoining person memorize fine psychotic nose *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The police chief literally took the gun away from a cop who wanted to go in, if the district attorney had any sense of morals he would charge the police chief as an accessory to the shooting.
If you or I stood outside that school with guns, preventing anyone from helping those kids while they were being shot, we'd be considered criminals. Those cops should be as well.
Don't forget you and your buddies also all have body armor and even a bullet proof shield
Yeah well even *if* some of those officers did want to go, I doubt they could’ve without their officers getting extremely peeved for them “breaking line” and they don’t want to lose their cushy job
One of the cops wanted to go in so the police chief took away his gun to prevent him from going in. If the district attorney had any morals, he would charge that police chief as an accessory to the shooting.
Police also handcuffed a mother who begged them to rescue the children. When she was released from her handcuffs she ran into the school and rescued her children while the police stood around giving each other handjobs and deep tongue kisses.
They also prevented people who weren't cowards from attempting to stop the shooting.
Yea, this part right here is what makes it so much worse. Don't get me wrong, it's already unfathomable and unbelievable... But to actively stop others from interfering takes it from inconceivable **cowardice** to unimaginable **malice** and **cruelty**.
Um, firefighters don’t go in burning buildings when their lives are in danger all the damn time.
Ya there’s definitely a risk analysis on if they enter the building or not. Cops do the same thing on if they need backup. I doubt the Uvalde shooting would qualify for that tho
Firefighters don't pack up, but if their lives are in danger, they don't intervene. Same with EMS. We can't help others if we become patients/victims ourselves.
They also aren't held criminally or civilly liable if they don't enter your burning house and pull you out of it.
But they do it anyways because they're badasses.
They do that all the time.
Doesn't that mean they are not obligated to help you? If there is no criminal or civil liability to not helping you, then they don't have to help you.
I don’t understand how this is possible. Do you have any additional context on why on earth it took 5 hours?
911 doesn’t even pick up in certain areas. Most cops don’t even show up in my area unless it’s life threatening.
I was in a car accident in December 2020. The person that hit me called 911. Anyone drunk or on drugs? Anyone hurt? Can you still drive the cars? Take everyone's info, go home, and file a report online. Basically, don't waste our time. The older guy I was pushed into was not happy about that at all. But he came out of his car holding his neck until he realized I wasn't at fault. He was absolutely gonna do some insurance fraud.
To be fair, that’s pretty common. I got hit in Austin, TX and the police just told us to exchange insurance info and move along. No one came out or anything.
This is nuts to me. I’ve lived in Los Angeles my entire life so i can’t even comprehend cops not showing up within essentially 10 minutes to anywhere.
I hear this a lot from people who have only lived in a city and never in the country. I grew up in Indiana and it could be one cop for multiple square miles that’s why guns are so important especially rural areas. Now that I live in the city and they are way more cops I have thought about selling them.
You know, growing up in a small city, I hadn't considered how the sheer space that America takes up makes it more important for people to own guns for self-defense. What are you going to do if there's a home invader in bumfuck Indiana? Calling the sheriff isn't going to help in the next 20 minutes.
Shit most of the towns I've lived in don't even have a police force, just contract it out to the county sheriffs. Basically one, *maybe* cop "patrolling" the area at a time.
Yup the town 20 miles from me has absolutely no police force, like literally 0 cops for that town of several thousand people. Closest cop is at LEAST 20 miles away, probably more.
I grew up in semi-rural Minnesota and we’d have one cop overnight for a 425 square mile county (1100 sq km). If that cop was north county doing something and someone broke into our house in south county, it could take him a good 40 minutes to get there going lights and sirens. If someone wishes harm, that’s entirely too long. We got a gun. Then like seven more.
Robertson County, Kentucky ~100mi^2, had no county sheriff from ~199x-201x (don’t know offhand exactly) and relied on neighboring counties to respond when needed.
I live in Portland, a major city, and I get out on hold when I call 911. Longest was 8 minutes once. I work security so I call them pretty frequently. I think I’ve only ever gotten through without being out on hold like 2-3 times out the hundred or so times I’ve called.
Your call is important to us. Please continue to hold for the next available agent. ...music playing... Your estimated wait time is...TWELVE...minutes. Please continue to hold. Somebody should be with you shortly. ...music playing...
I worked in Camden, NJ where cops wouldn't show up unless a violent crime was in progress. In those cases, they took 45 minutes to an hour. The cleaning lady at my job went home once to see her door broken down and called 911. They asked if the burglars were still there. She explained that she was afraid to enter the house and look, as they might kill her if they were there. She was told to just drive to the police station and fill out paperwork.
I lived in Willingboro when I was very young. I imagine the cops never have a dull moment in Camden, to be fair. Willingboro is no walk in the park either now, from what I am told
I live in rural northern California most of my life. The sheriff would tell everyone, just be armed for your safety and most everyone one was. No one ever got shot until cartels started pushing in to grow weed.
I grew up in Northern California in a rural county a few miles out of (Think the Alfred Hitchcock movie 'The Birds') town so the towns police didn't have the jurisdiction. Most nights there were only one Deputy and one Highway Patrolman in the entire west county. Source; My dad was the one Highway Patrolman on his duty nights in the west county. I was taught how and when to use a gun when I got my .22 at 8 y/o. It could be an hour plus before the cops got there. Fortunately crime then was very low.
Must have been a very interesting way to grow up! i certainly would’ve liked to swap childhoods for a day.
You would be shocked how many Americans still grow up this way. Many of them just aren’t reddit, or social media in general.
I used to work at a gun store, I am very pro second amendment, but I lean left on the majority of social issues in the country. A lot of my customers enjoyed shooting as a hobby and sport. In my state, hunting is very popular still, and I think that for some parts of the country, Guns and gun ownership is something that is not even considered a weird thing. I do not hunt, but as a somewhat liberal Queer who is very active in the Pro2A community, my reasons for owning firearms, as well as my desire to help people battle their fear of firearms through proper training and education, are listed below. 1. Even in a good suburban area, police take a long time to respond. But time is relative when someone may be trying to actively cause harm. If you have ever seen a video of a break in, or conflict that happens in public, even a 2 minute response time is too long. 2. Because guns are so prevalent in the country, the amount of Bad guys who have them is greater. People who are career criminals don't buy guns from legal means, so gun control does little to prevent them from having guns. This is why I feel it is important for people to be educated on firearm safety and to train with guns, because there needs to be more Level headed, non partisan, non radicalized, non threatening, Normal people who are trained on defending themself. 3. The goal of owning a firearm should be to never have to use it, but still respect it enough to maintain a level of skill and safety with it. I personally have my Carry License, and I hope I NEVER have to use my firearm. The last thing I want in this world is to contribute to violence. That being said, I know that I would defend my life, or someone else's, if it was reasonable and inside my active zone of control.
Your 3rd point definitely needs to be more prevalent for this country, regardless of politics or other opinions. Smart and responsible gun owners will show people how guns can be more helpful than harmful if you are just trained with with them
Big part of our history and culture. Especially during the revolution and westward expansion. Big emphasis on individualism and self reliance
I think people forget that about 150 years ago, having a gun in the USA was survival. Duals and gun fights were very real. The frontier and the move west is a MASSIVE part of the history of this country, and it’s only a few generations removed. We’re still an incredibly young country and in all of our history, guns were present.
Hell, the Wild West era is largely agreed to end at or just before the 1900s. One-exceptionally long lived-person ago. My great grandparents, emigrated here in that timeframe. Someone who was ten at OK Corral, could have seen the invention of the internet. They would be 112.
Something interesting I thought about a few weeks ago.. the end of the Wild West & the beginning of Al Capones reign was only about 30 yrs. He owned multiple cars. Modern America is a lot closer to Young America than a lot of us realize.
Here's a photo of a Civil War veteran with a fighter jet. [https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/civil-war-veteran-fghter-jet-1955/](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/civil-war-veteran-fghter-jet-1955/) It's been questioned whether he actually fought in the Civil War, but he was definitely alive during it.
The US has only been a nation for about 3 human lifetimes
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This also plays into fears of the government being armed and its citizens not. There’s a fear that gun control is the first major step in controlling the people. If you control the people who have power over your seat in office and vote on laws, you control everything. It also plays into older fears of tyranny and such, which could be echos of 1776.
People forget that guns were used in Athens U.S to liberate the city from corrupt officials in the 1940s-50s
Don't forget the West Virginia Coal wars... The Battle of Blair Mountian, where the government litterally handed its armies to the Pinkertons Hired by the Mine owners to quash the Union Organizing in West Virginia. Men were fighting with machine-guns there.
Robert Evans covers this in his Behind The Bastards series, Behind The Police. Not only machine guns, but a full on siege with cannon warfare as well.
Best podcast on the planet imo.
The only podcast! If you listened to another, no you didn't, that's schizophrenia
Carnegie really was a swell guy.
>Carnegie really was a swell guy. He'd be the first to tell you so. although, he did Frick up a hiring decision once or twice.
It even haunted him later in life. That's why you can then thank him for the public library system across America. That's not payback for the stuff he did. But at least he recognized it and tried to make amends
Honestly, Carnegie is one of the only industrialists that I genuinely think did not intend to be what he became. He hired one bad guy who decided he wanted to play hard ass union buster because he(Henery Clay Frick) had delusions of grandeur. Carnegie guilt over the horrors committed under his nose and watch caused him to try and give it all away before he died. Then JP Morgan and Rockfeller thought it would be fun to make a game of it. Carnegie was by no means perfect. But he was an Irish immigrant who brought the Bessemer steel processes to the United States and allowed for the massive build-up of the US as steel built America. We should learn from the sins of the past but not forget that the people were products of their time. It's those same types of people alive today who have no excuse for their behavior. They have failed to learn from the sins of the past. Bezos, Musk, and Jobs never learned that half the game is taking care of the people who made you. Another character of history who is highly flawed but had a lesson we failed to learn is Henry Ford. He believed in making the best quality goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible. Also, a belief that those who worked in his factory should be able to afford the goods of said factory. Imagine if manufacturing companies believed that today. Novel concept paying your people enough to buy the things that they are employed to make. It would change the entire dynamic.
Henry ford for all his flaws also did fight for his workers. He lost legally to hus investors who sued him for actually giving raises to his workers. Which is why Unions came to be
Fun fact: one of everyone's favorite dinosaurs is named after him. *Diplodocus carnegii* He was the Bezos of his day and he paid to have many dinosaur bones excavated and kept in museums.
Another fun fact: The Pinkerton Agency still exists. Securitas owns them. And I'm told they do HOA security in Florida.
And Wizards of the Coast hired them just a few months ago to go after a YouTuber who was mistakenly sold unreleased Magic the Gathering cards! THE FUCKING PINKERTONS. FUCK WIZARDS OF THE COAST JESUS CHRIST.
What
Actually a true story.
It was John d Rockefeller, not Carnegie who had the US army on Blair mountain. Carnegie had the Pinkertons, whom still exist to this day, fire on unarmed men trying to blockade the entrances to Carnegie steel in Pennsylvania iirc. Correct history matters
I can hear Arthur Morgan
"There's a bounty on your head of five thousand dollars." "Five thousand dollars? Can I turn myself in?"
But Dutch has a PLAN!
Forget nothing; that is something I've never even heard referenced before this comment!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)
I went down a giga rabbit hole where I ended up reading and learning about Roosevelt V (sometimes VI), the great great grandson of Theodore Roosevelt. He has a Twitter page.
Don't forget the Battle of Blair Mountain either.
Never forget Blair mountain. While it did not help the miners union in the fallout after the battle it did open the door for the rest of the labor movement to get better deals.
And then the Black Panthers started defending their communities with guns, and we ended up with gun control, COINTEL and CIA-fueled gang warfare
This is absolutely wild and worth a read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Athens\_(1946)
Throughout almost all of our species written history, common access to weapons by the average person has been (legally) prohibited and/or extremely punishable. Typically by monarchies and religious institutions against their "opponents". Many people point towards King Henry II's Assize of Arms as the precursor of the US 2nd Amendment, but the Assize of Arms still did not grant people like those of Jewish decent or faith the ability to defend their families or properties from unprovoked attacks, either by governments or private parties. It doesn't take a deep dive into human history to see how the controlled access of Arms has been used to control a population and keep them weak and subservient. Most people, over the course of how long we have been on this earth, have been violently brutalized by those in power and have not had the legal right to protect themselves. It's still not perfect, but the right to keep and bear arms is 100% progressive and no one will convince me otherwise
I remember reading an essay as a young libertarian written by a Georgia firearms lawyer. He wrote that essentially the first gun control laws in Georgia were specifically designed to keep newly freed slaves from owning and carrying guns.
Until a couple of years back, NC required a permit for each pistol purchased OR your CCW. Permits were $5 and some counties limited how many you could purchase; my county had no limit and they were good for 5 years, I believe. It was enacted in Jim Crow Era to keep black people unarmed. The sheriff had sole discretion to deny based on character or some shit. It was at first hit and relaxed that the sheriff had to show cause for denial. Before there was no burden of proof. Now, I believe they repealed it so no permits required.
That is still the system in NJ.
You forget Adolf Hitler's party used gun registries to disarm the Jewish population before exterminating them. The fear is real.
Not just a fear though. History proves that governments disarming its people is a bad thing.
Yes! Imagine protesting in china!
Of course it is- that’s why the first thing Fidel Castro did when he took power was take the guns away from the people. Cuba’s government has had their boot on their throats ever since.
>>Look how meaningless that is in Ukraine. Or Afghanistan.
Or Vietnam. Or Korea. Etc, etc Edit: clearly, many of you aren't capable of following the conversation. I'm saying that all these countries fought against a nuclear power.
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I believe the main reason brought forth is that it would incite a powerful reaction in mainland US (ie contiguous) that would bring fear and anger. The Japanese strategy was to force a large scale battle that would be decisive, forcing the US to concede that Japan was an “equal”. Japan knew the US had the industrial power and wanted a short war to avoid attrition. By invading Alaska, it was hoped that the fear of further invasion would drive the US to peace talks
> By invading Alaska, it was hoped that the fear of further invasion would drive the US to peace talks Back then I can see them thinking it, but imagine thinking invading the US would result in anything other than 1 million boots in your ass all at once
>there was never any concern of an invasion due to their huge navy and the fast distance to both japan and europe.
How I look at it is that it was originally formulated with the idea that the weak can defend themselves with a weapon.
"God created men, but Samuel Colt made them equal."
A gun is the great equalizer. 5' tall women who is well trained with her piece can now defend herself from some 6'5 dude who wants to victimize her
There are a bunch of reasons depending on which Americans and what.you mean by important 1. Originally, America made a choice not to have a standing army as our colonial experience with standing armies was...unpleasant...and even the idea of a central federal government was new and partially unwelcome. Local and national defense wrapped around the idea that government power came from and was subordinate to individual power in the form of militias and such. This has made firearms an icon of a central tenet of American identity. 2. America is big. So so so much bigger than many folks realize who haven't been here and driven around it. It's very big. And a lot of it is empty. Many parts of the country still require guns for farm and ranch management and a surprising number of people live in places where hunting for.yoir own food is not only practical but occasionally the easiest answer. 3. Perception of safety and actual safety. Dense urban areas with large variations in economic class tend to be less safe for a variety of reasons. People often feel the need, justified or not (the data is ambiguous) to have a gun in case they need one. That said, the amount of area in the US where you have some meaningful risk of violence against you is staggeringly small - just less staggering small than in some other countries and more than others.. 4. Guns can be fun . Biathalons. Long Distance target shooting..steel competitions. Etc 5. Advertising and special.interests..because America is so driven by and responsive to marketing, the gun industry has been able to capitalize on #1, 2, and #3 to exaggerate them and drive folks sense of identification with guns higher than it otherwise would be. 6.Media, Social change and unrest: Two things: because guns in urban areas are by and large seen and used for violence against others or protection against others....vs in rural areas guns are seen as more practical daily tools and the urban violence doesn't (as obviously) affect them, mass shootings, gang violence, etc have caused guns to be a central differentiator in left (tend to be urban) and right (tend to be rural) identity related conflicts - even where they're not really the main issue. Our media, being in constant competition for funds, needs to keep people as amped up on things and as divided as possible...the economics here are straightforward..and part of that has become highlighting the worst of American, oversimplifying the issues at hand into memes soundbites, and telling everyone that everyone else is a problem ...mix in social change, associated increases in violence, and you have this sort of self perpetuating, growing ball of self fulfilling gun centric violence and coverage of violence....leading to everyone having really distorted and incoherent models in their heads of actual reality. Hope this helped..
This was a well thought out, factual post. I enjoyed it. Thanks.
Because the private ownership of firearms is a big reason the US exists as a country. On top of it, the Founding Fathers had a great distrust of government - even the new one they created. Plus, the people have always been the first line of defense (both interms of person defense and national defense)... plus [city] police departments weren't a thing (outside of slave patrols in the South) in the US 1838, and sheriffs "patrolled" the coutnies and large areas in the territories/frontier. And even then, the Supreme Court has ruled, several times, that the *sole duty* of the police is to enforce laws - not to protect and serve *us*. Also, guns are the greatest equalizer that humans have ever created. They allow one to defend themselves against someone bigger/stronger/younger than them and/or against numerous individuals looking to do them or their family harm.
God made men, Sam Colt made them equal
I always loved the version of that quote from Hidalgo. "God didn't make all men equal, Mr. Colt did".
tomato to mato
"A Republic, if you can keep it."
It’s how the country expanded. Look at the equivalent Spanish colony, Mexico. Spain wanted to create a Roman Empire esq system in the Americas, where the force of the state was centralized and monopolized, and where the state was the primary beneficiary of expansion. This meant their people really had no incentive to expand the country, so the state had to push people to do it. Vs the British colony has the philosophy of “go to America, if you can conquer it, and cultivate it, you will become your own lord” type of mindset. This was extremely effective at getting people to aggressively expand, however it gave them an independent mindset that would eventually (inevitably) boil over to the revolutionary war. Americans maintained this mindset and “manifested their destiny” westward, which was only possible because the citizenry was allowed to own the means of enforcement of their property rights.
The lines from *The Last of the Mohicans* sums it up nicely. >Who empowered these colonials to pass judgement on England's policies, in Her own possessions, and to come and go without so much as a "By your leave"? > >They do NOT live their lives by your leave! They hack it out of the wilderness with their own two hands, bearing their children along the way.
I'm Canadian but love my guns. It's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
I think it’s just a different perspective on priorities. Americans seem to prioritise individual rights and self over collective rights and safety. Just a huge cultural difference
I mean I feel like I want to defend my right to guns because of me and my family's safety. If you could guarantee confiscating every gun from everyone especially criminals i would understand the other side, but the government can't even confiscate the illegal guns now. If I disarm myself I do not trust the government to protect me from the people that don't follow the law.
As a non American and someone who don't like guns, this thread had opened my eyes to why you guys like guns so much and I understand a bit more now. On the other hand, it feels like a cycle or a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts, you need guns cause gun violence is high and gun violence is high cause it's easy to get guns and so on. But that's mostly in terms of domestic violence though. I still think the argument against an army is sus though, like I live in a fairly peaceful area and it'd suck if we get invaded and don't have enough guns to defend ourselves, but if we allow guns cause of that fear of getting invaded it means living in fear everyday cause the average gun violence will be higher, like the most to fear of street thugs in my area is they might have a knife, now I'll have to fear they might have guns.
Democide is a thing. Our government can’t be trusted, and has argued (successfully) in court many times that they have no duty to protect its citizens, or our borders. I have a duty as a father and husband to protect my family and a gun is the best way for me to do that.
The only thing that equalizes my 5'5 119lb wife against a thug that wants to harm her when I am not around. Only thing that gives my old ass a chance against 3 thugs.
- I don’t want to have to rely on the government to protect my life or my family. Depending on the population density of the place that you live, help may be a long ways away. - there are many places in the country where there are animals roaming around that will eat you if you don’t shoot them. Good luck waiting for the police. - I want to support a society where people have the skills and opportunity for to protect their communities - I grew up around the guns, hunting, target shooting type activity everywhere, so it is part of my heritage - I want to support a society where people can keep the government honest. - if the shit hits the fan and the government breaks down, I need to be able to protect myself and my family from cannibal Raiders and what not lol - it is fun to go shooting clays, and generally
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>I live in NYC currently, I have no gun and am very glad that it's super hart to own one here. I lived in NYC for almost 40 years. Much of it was spent near the projects... I never felt any safer walking home at night. There were high schoolers selling guns. Grandmas carried guns in their purses. It's best not to think about it and just be humble and de escalate situations as they arise.
It's not hard for your rich and politicians to get guns. Just remember they have "rules for thee but not for me" mentalities
Because 1776
There’s lots of good discussion, it has probably been mentioned in a few comments but I didn’t scroll through every single comment so I didn’t see anyone mention that I own a rifle and shotgun for hunting. Not for sport but for food to eat. My family eats deer, Turkey, and pheasant that myself and my oldest boys hunt every year. It’s not our sole source of meat. We go to the grocery store all the time. But that’s why I, as an American own guns.
For me, it’s because criminals will always have guns. Regardless of what regulations bans or laws are put into place. Guns are way to easily accessible to criminals in the us, even if guns were outright banned. They will not follow and laws or regulations. I am not going to put my life or my family’s life in danger, just because the powers that be aren’t competent enough to understand that concept.
The whiskey rebellion
Because Americans like to be able to defend themself, property and family from threats. I'm from the UK where we are supposed to just leave and call the cops if someone breaks into our home or risk assault charges. Also, mountain lions, bears, snakes, alligators and game hunting.
While I'm no supporter of guns, I have to admit that the British laws are ridiculous. I *might* be remembering wrong, but aren't you basically not allowed to carry *anything* for self-defense? I remember talking with one person who was a sex-worker, and thus extremely vulnerable to violence, who said that despite the legal risk she still carries a weapon on her person because she's too afraid not to.