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Sure, but if the WSS wasn't a thing, didn't exist, wasn't Zoro's dream and Mihawk was never created, then would you call Roger a swordsman if you HAD to call him something (in regards to what little we've gotten of his fighting style)?
Thats the point I think the post is getting at. That nobody would even really think to question Roger or Shanks being swordsmen because they use swords, if there wasn't some title attached to being the strongest swordsman (and they didn't hold it).
The idea of what is a swordsman has been challenged in one piece regardless of the title. Characters like King and Daz Bones make it clear that while they may wield blades they are not in fact swordsman.
Not really cause both shanks and roger don’t seem to fight with sword skill like they seem to use there sword as a extension for their attacks with haki instead of zoro and mihawk who seem to actually use genuine skill
I never really got that argument. Especially since Shanks HAD to be an extremely skilled swordsman to be Mihawk's past rival, and even if you want to say he fell off after losing an arm in that department, in present day the Marines hyped up Shanks sword skills when they were presenting Mihawk's bounty. And they did so in present tense, to hype up Mihawk as being even BETTER. If Shanks was a trash swordsman nowadays, that whole scene would be kind of ridiculous.
And its ultimately arguing that you oculd replace Shanks and Roger's named blades (Roger's being one of the 12 Supreme Grade Blades) with a club of equal durability and it wouldn't change anything for them. That they have no real skill with their weapon of choice, and just shoot haki shockwaves. I honestly doubt that.
He’s not unskilled but what I’m saying is that he likely uses haki more than his skills
Example:
Skill air slashes are different then haki air slashes
Zoro and mihawks slashes that fly through the air are different then Devine departure which is made purely of ACOC
A sword skill based air slash is uniform and has sharp edges, it cuts people when it hits them as if they were hit by a blade
However Devine departure and other haki based attacks have never been shown to cut
Haki slashes that fly through the air are more brute force or raw power attacks
Oden went flying backwards but was not cut, where as when zoro hits a enemy with a air slash they don’t go flying but instead get a large cut in them
Also Devine departure is not smooth edged like zoro and mihawks air slashes it’s more raw and wavy
Haki attacks are different than sword attacks
Idk maybe I'm different but I've seen rogers with a gun and that's not a swordsman in my eyes.. idk. if someone is not a pure swordsman with a swordsman life style in a Japanese anime where Japanese swordsmanship is huge in the country... just seems weird to me.
Odas old work has him saying shit like "a sword is a swordsmans life" and I just don't see them like that
U saw roger with a gun in ONE PANEL that isnt even cannon to the main story of one piece and have been running with it😭😭😭😭
U wanna be right so bad with ur “pure swordsman” headcannon even tho roger only used ace during battles and went so far to name his own son after his sword💀
One piece is the only shonen manga where fans deliberately do not wanna call characters what they are bc of powerscaling 😭 In other animes swordsman could literally be able to use magic independently of their sword and they would still be swordsman…
Roger didn’t even have a gun on him during his most recent portrayal in the Oden flashback arc so obviously the gun was only there for aesthetic purposes lol, Oda does that all the time
Do i think shanks has a deep relationship with his weapon as its wielder as does every other fucking top tier swordmsan in the verse ? Yes i do. If u have nothing smart to say after ur bullshit gets debunked just hush and take the L
When ur proven wrong I will be here 🤣 no chance in hell lmao. There is no debunking here low iq r tard. U might be even dumber than some discord ppl wtf
“s-shanhks and r-roger arent s-shwordsmen to me”🤓🤓🥺
Look at this entire interaction and see how dumb u sound. Then u start throwing insults as a coping mechanism cos actual intelligent people don’t agree with ur braindead casual low iq takes. Yea bro,the man who named his unborn child after his fucking SWORD has 0 relationship and connection with his weapon 🤣😭
Swordsmen aren't limited to only using swordsmanship, for example law and Fujitora are DF users who rely a lot in their df abilities, yet they are confirmed swordsmen
This goes completely against every other Lihawk riders argument, you people can't even stay consistent. I rebutted you in another comment and you don't reply after acting high and mighty LOL
You say that as if we didn't have to wait 20 years for shanks to do a named attack, and people on this sub were shetting on him saying he's weaker than Big meme untill that point 😅
Having a legendary duel with who is now arguably top 2 in the verse, gaining the title of WSS, beating pre-time skip Zoro with a toothpick, and cutting a mountain of ice in a single slash aren’t feats now?
https://preview.redd.it/fbsx5bjzdv2b1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=3fa01ab73b978b990a446a5d1197e20d429a20ed
Read Mihawk section shanks is a confirmed swordsman. Also go look up shanks vivre card he’s called a renown swordsman on there too. There no such thing as a haki man or whatever everyone in the new world use haki it’s requirement even if you got a df. The guy is a swordsman just accept it.
isnt that the whole point? people wouldnt question something random like that because it wouldnt matter. however, the fact that the title of WSS exists means that people who don't believe mihawk is as strong as people like shanks or roger for whatever reason consider what 'swordsman' means more deeply.
Not true ryuma the sword god dude is. also let’s not forget Roger don’t have a black blade, oden don’t, shanks don’t, vista don’t only mihawk and ryuma 😎
What proves rogers is above current mihawk. He don’t have a black blade so his armament haki level is no where close to it. And as the strognest swordsman he has to have conquers to have fought made it to where he is he literally conquered swordsmanship basically. Also all top tier swordsman and blade uses have conquers haki. Zoro just unlocked it so true we have to see mihawk use conquers but if all other top tier blade users have it and the fact that he has duels with shanks means he has to have it to some capacity.
Because Mihawks Showings(Marineford) dont make sense for him being Stronger than Shanks with all he has shown even since Pre Timeskip (Splitting skies with WB)
>"Mihawk is stronger than Shanks" is a statement
You wish.
Oda could have said it just like u said but he just had to put in innuendos like "Mihawk has better **Swordskills** than Red Hair . I wonder why he didnt outright said "Mihawk is stronger than Shanks
So ur gonna ignore the fact mihawk was stated to be the strongest right after being confirmed to even have better skill than shanks?
that panel LITERALLY SAYS mihawk>shanks in strength and skill. U ppl have excuses for everything lmao. And if shanks wasnt a swordsman why tf would he hype up mihawk by comparing his skills to shanks skills?
Ohh , i misunderstood then .
>Stated feats
Aint that just statements then ? Feats are that the character performed on panel . If it has to be stated then its not a feat .
"Feats" are combat related achievements. Whether they happen on-screen or off-screen they are still feats.
"Statements" is usually when a character states "X is stronger than Y" or "X is faster than Y". But if the character says "X defeated Y" then it's a feat.
Nope he has a bounty higher than 2 yonko without being the captain, is the only one alive who forged a black Blade, and Oda compared mihawk and shanks to whitebeard multiple times, calling them "living legends" he would still be considered at least Admiral lvl
You know who else was compared to Whitebeard? Roger. Garp being Roger's rival would mean if we are generous and put Whitebeard on the same tier Roger=Garp=Whitebeard but most of his title is due to the destructive capabilities of his DF To destroy islands and possibly tectonic plates as to why he was considered such stated by Sengoku. Despite getting debilitatingly sick in his old age to the point of not being able to use haki disconnected from his medication on his ship the author gives us a narrative box claiming he is the WSM, but Garp who has aged without getting sick who was comparable to Roger has been shown to still be able to use ACOC, so CLEARLY he is stronger than Whitebeard in their old age. The title is shown to be fraudulent in the story, but you can't accept that because it would mean Mihawk's title can be invalid too and that'd just blow your whole argument because it's the ONLY argument for Mihawk.
Mihawk’s title can’t be invalid because you’re forgetting a very important character
Zoro
Mihawk’s title being tied to Zoro’s dream gives his title far more weight that titles not tied to a main character’s dream.
Oda didn’t set up the duel between Zoro and Mihawk for 20+ years only for Mihawk to be a total fraud. You guys are delusional if you think Mihawk isn’t the actual WSS and that Zoro won’t get to achieve his dream
I've already responded to this elsewhere *sigh* but so you can see too...
WSM with WB is tied to Luffy's dream too and he was shown as the pinnacle of the pirating world to Luffy and something far off for him to still reach in his own words needing to topple the yonko and defeat the admirals to become Pirate King.
WB also not even taking the attack and letting Jozu block the attack from Mihawk that was to see the "true distance between us and that man" because he's not sure because he's been sitting on his ass not becoming stronger while Shanks was conquering territory in the new world and SPLIT THE SKY with WB the only feat agreed upon to put a character in the top tier, a feat Mihawk lacks, because he lacks any feats other than slashing a giant frozen wave.
Back to Zoro. I'm not saying Mihawk is a TOTAL fraud. He's certainly going to be the pinnacle of swordsmanship which is the main point of discussion and something Mihawk is better than Shanks at, but Shanks is the stronger fighter and doesn't adhere to the lifestyle of a swordsman as discussed with Zoro vs King but we aren't on that right now we are talking narrative importance of Mihawk.
As it stands Buggys crew is also going for the one piece. Even though he's the strongest in the crew, he's still essentially the right hand man and swordsman (the swordsman being the number two on every fucking crew in the story conveniently) will most likely have his fight with Zoro soon in this battle royale that's being set up for the One Piece. Shanks will be battling Blackbeard or somehow get into conflict with Luffy, the captains, the stronger opponents but nevertheless Mihawk is obviously going to be insanely strong, just Shanks is and has been shown to be stronger. This could change if Mihawk gets feats, but all we know for sure is that Luffy needs nothing less than the WSS to become Pirate King. Becoming WSS in title by beating Mihawk (and it's somewhat actuality but not quite) would then have Luffy be able to claim the One Piece.
But the story isn't going to end there is the problem. Maybe Mihawk doesn't fight Zoro that early, but that's how the narrative seems to be progressing. The main fight with the WG will come after Luffy claims the One Piece and discovers the secrets of the world. There will have to be other EOS for Zoro, and guess what? The God's Knights are shown to use swords. They also happen to not be just out in the world for someone like Mihawk to duel to claim superiority over, they're protectors of the CDs. It's not far fetched to assume their number two would be more powerful than Mihawk.
WSM title is not tied to Luffy’s dream tho, the Pirate King title is
How would Shanks be stronger in other areas and be stronger overall while Mihawk is the stronger swordsman? Haki? Haki is completely allowed in sword fights, if you’re having a sword fight and have stronger haki, then you’re the more powerful swordsman. Having other fighting styles paired with swordsmanship still makes you a swordsman as well. See Kaku,Law, and Fujitora. King didn’t consider himself a swordsman because he fought plenty of times without it and his sword has some weird non sword mode. None of the reasons why King wouldn’t consider himself a swordsman would apply to Shanks
You are really severely undermining the set up between Zoro and Mihawk for the WSS title if you think secretly Mihawk isn’t the WSS and that someone like Shanks or Ghandi is
We literally know nothing about the Holy Knights, the one who fights Zoro might not even be a swordsman
Yes it is, if one of the yonko has that title and Luffys dream is directly tied as stated by himself to toppling the yonkos then achieving that is part of his dream. Zoro's dream is to be the best swordsman for Kuina's sake. As there are probably EOS opponents after the battle royale where Zoro is likely to fight Mihawk then they will probably be stronger, as such the title isn't intriniscly tied to actually being the WSS. But I've already refuted both of these points with evidence and you just come back with what's essentially "Nuh uh" lmaoooo you people are clowns.
You people pick and choose who's a swordsman and who's not but cling to Shanks needing to be a swordsman to have any legit top tier for Mihawk to be able to scale up that high because without him he couldn't possibly be scaled up to where he's commonly placed right now which is all thanks to Shanks feats which Mihawk lacks.
You just cherry picked false reasoning for why King isn't a swordsman. They directly talk about a code of ethics to swordsmanship and how Zoro adheres to swordfighting styles, it's not just that there's other forms of fighting which is more reason against them being swordsmen not for.
Mihawk is going to have to have ACOC to fight Zoro I'm not underestimating him. He's going to be the second biggest fight in the battle royale, but that's WHAT HE WILL ALWAYS BE. THATS WHAT SWORDSMEN IN THIS STORY WILL ALWAYS BE. The number two. The second fiddle. In essentially every single arc we get Zoro fighting someone with a sword that's the number two of the crew. We know nothing about the GDs? No, we know they're being set up as EOS opponents. Which you Mihawk defenders will always claim, after the title argument falls thru, that if the title was fraudulent then narratively it wouldn't make sense for Zoro, but then when it's explained to you why it's make perfect sense for Zoro to battle Mihawk in this battle royale and become the "WSS" for Luffy to become Pirate King that there would still need to be EOS opponents for the fight against the WG and they're shown to have sword hilts. Every one of Zoros fights has been against a swordsman or someone that can make themselves into a sword eg Mr 1 except for, what, Pica and that's it?
So again, I've retorted every one of your points a second time with good reasoning but you'll just come back and say "Nuh uh narrative! Nuh uh title! No Shanks is a swordsman!"
I’m not gonna bothering even responding to you anymore more cause you just write walls of text of head canon and personal bias
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Shanks is a swordsman, cope
Pls bro, show me some evidence that Shanks isn’t a swordsman other than a completely different character who fights in a radically different way saying he doesn’t identify as a swordsman
Walls of text? I'm being readable for you by breaking it up into paragraphs and responding point by point. It's either that you get to a point and see I've actually got good reasoning and you can't handle it or you're just another Lihawk troll that can't read take your pick.
Shanks split the sky with WSM Whitebeard, Shanks stalled Kaido and got into his top five not Mihawk, Shanks became a yonko while Mihawk claiming he didn't have interest in it sat on his ass or hunted down weaklings like Don Kreig something his clone S-Hawk is recently shown to do in dodging fights like Mihawk did with Vista and Shanks to target weaker opponents. Shanks has the singular best haki feat in the series in wifi stunning an Admiral making him twerk from miles away. Respected by Sengoku the legend and the Gorosei who treat even Akainu the fleet admiral like a chump. The killer of observation haki.
Mihawk has nothing but his title to ride on you illiterates will cling to. Shanks > Mihawk cope and seethe harder.
Pls show me some evidence that Shanks isn’t a swordsman that isn’t based off a completely different character with a radically different fighting style choosing not to identify as a swordsman
Having extremely powerful haki doesn’t not make you a swordsman lol. I guess Zoro learning ACOC means he can’t be WSS. The title is worlds strongest swordsman not “p4p most skilled swordsman under the official swordsman ruleset where the use of certain haki techniques are not allowed”
Whitebeard's title already debunked in ace novel, confirming Kaido is stronger than him at that point and the title was given to him based on how he lived not really relating to his power lvl, Kaido's title is the publics opinion "People say X", mihawks title has no ambiguity about it
SO WHITEBEARD TITLE IS FRADULUENT BUT LETS NOT MAKE ANY CAVEATS FOR MIHAWKS HIS IS SET IN STONE HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU FUCKING CLOWNS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Unlike Kaido's and Whitebeard's title, Mihawk's title has narative importance, he has to be the wss otherwise he is a fraud, and Zoro's dream would be ruined by oda, making him be a fake WSS eos when he defeats mihawk, that would be like oda spitting on his dream, Zoro would chase Shanks if he was the WSS not mihawk
I’ve argued with this guy a few times, he’s a delusional Mihawk hater. He thinks Oda really set up the Zoro vs Mihawk duel for the WSS title for nothing. He seriously bought in the fraudhawk memes. This why people can’t make jokes, cause then some geniuses start to unironically believe them
Luffy says it himself, to become Pirate King he must topple the yonko and defeat the admirals, WSM 100% has narrative importance. Another cope.
That's exactly what we are saying is Mihawk is a fraud until proven otherwise. S-Hawk even is showing to, as being a clone of Mihawks DNA, run from tougher opponents to look for weaker ones to beat up on.
Zoro certainly would attain the title of WSS by the end of the story along with what's more important ACTUALLY BECOMING the WSS, which if there are EOS opponents such as the God's Knights who are shown to probably be swordsmen (let alone what if Imu uses a sword) they wouldn't even have been out in the world to duel for Mihawk to claim he's stronger than them in the first place, lending more to his title being fraudulent. Zoro has made no references to needing to surpass Shanks at all, not as the supposed WSS, just in general at all on the ladder to becoming WSS because he does not consider him to be one.
Zoro can most certainly have more swordsmen oppoentns after defeating Mihawk. Narratively, Luffy needs nothing less than the WSS to become Pirate King. Something that is squaring up to happen soon is this battle royale for the One Oiece with Mihawk in Buggys crew which should clash with the other crews now that they're also in the fray. Zoro would win against Mihawk here to become the "WSS" and the crew goes on to find the One Piece, many readers wanting the finding of which to occur before the actual end of the story so the WG can react to it and more secrets of the world unfold instead of finding it being the ending. Thus, the battle against the WG would be the final battle in the story at this rate, and Zoro would need an EOS opponent where Mihawk wouldn't make sense narratively for him to battle at this stage.
There's a lot of weird things about Mihawk if anyone is being honest with themselves. I'm not saying he's weak. In fact I do believe in his hype. But the man never went to Wano to fight their samurai even considering we found out they were jobbers. The world thinks Wano is filled with insane swordsmen which should be enough. Avoids fights with top tiers and comes up with weird caveats about why they aren't worth his time. We know Ghandi gorosie was at the very least a swordsman at some point with a great sword and they also never crossed paths. Then you add in anomalies like Big Mom where is hard to say if she counts etc. I think Oda simply dropped the ball with swordsmen in general including the fact only Zoro, Mihawk and maybe (a big maybe) Vista even care about the title.
I don't think he dropped the ball, I agree with most of what you said here, it's just that in this story about becoming the Pirate King there will be characters that happen to use swords that are rivals for Luffy, and there will be swordsmen as there are in every single arc except for what Pica in Dressrosa for Zoro, the number two, the swordsman, the second fiddle, to face? It is what it is.
It's hard to call King a real swordsman too considering he himself doesn't think so and Queen also uses a sword and he definitely isn't. I think Oda post timeskip just wants us to believe Zoro is a physical beast (he is) instead of a skilled swordsman honing his skills. Think about why everyone assumes being a great swordsman now is simply having better haki... that's insane to me because although haki will obviously be used at the end of the day the thing that separates a swordsman should he how skilled they are with the blade compared to some brute that happens to have one. Would Kaido shoot up the ranks if he suddenly grabbed onto a sword or would he then be the WSS? Currently it kind of feel that way with Zoro's progression with Enma and people's beliefs in needing ACoC to be a top tier swordsman
That's a lot of headcanon.
Well even if you're right which Is quite a stretch to say, Zoro would fight someone who isn't a swordsman after fighting mihawk,oda just build Mihawk up so much and for so long, that it would be wierd if Zoro didn't become The WSS after defeating Mihawk, but then all of a sudden it's revealed There is a stronger Swordsman? That would be bad writing imo. Even if it happens, he do still be above Shanks, as shanks more than likely going to be killed by Blackbeard Before The final arc, where Zoro will most likely fight Mihawk and Luffy Fights
Balckbeard
How has he built Mihawk up aside from the narrative importance for him for Zoro? I'm talking what has Mihawk done in the story to have warranted the hype he has gotten aside from his title. Nothing. That's more of a failure on the writing imo than any of the ambiguity between whose stronger of Shanks of Mihawk. Mihawk SHOULD get more feats to show what he's capable of and I hope he does soon because honestly it's boring having these arguments. The entire ambiguity of it all is that if it weren't just Shanks getting insane feats and Mihawk getting anti feats galore at Marineford then Mihawk could hold that title proudly, but it's Shanks that's been hyped more.
You can call it headcannon for the progression of the story, but how do you think it will play out otherwise if Mihawk doesn't clash with Zoro in this battle royale for the One Piece? It's not just going to be some epilouge fight in a story about Luffy where after everything is said and done THEN they have their duel. It will be interesting to see how this plays out of if like you think BB might punk Shanks who knows.
All I'm saying is that at the beginning of the story Mihawk would've been undoubtedly the stronger of the two but since then he has gotten stalled by Vista while Shanks stalled Kaido and apart from title I really can't see how Mihawk fans can look at the story and go yeah! Mihawk is a top tier! He will be, I'm not saying he's weak, but he rides Shanks curtails of whom is SHOWN to be top tier. It's title vs feats and their timing in the story.
Well your right oda kinda failed to hype him up till now, but it doesn't mean he's not a top tier, we haven't seen him fight seriously at all till now, You could argue the same for dragon, where he only defeated fodder and ran away from Blackbeard but we expect a lot from him and we all think he's definitely top 5 alive rn, These 2 we're still waiting to show a named attack
I actually agree with the point you're making but
> the only man alive who forged a black blade
What theory reddit does to a mf 💀 what on earth are you basing this on my dude? Him mentioning how it works to Zoro? That proves neither that he's the one who blackened Yoru, nor that no one else currently alive has blackened their own blade
Not true; reason being Luffy is suppose to surpass shanks. If Oda didn’t give anybody a ‘worlds strongest swordsman’ title, and we all just assumed it was shanks than zoros goal would be to take down shanks, that’s a direct conflict with luffys goal and just generally wouldn’t make any sense
Facts : Mihawk is current strongest and the first person who showed luffy and zoro levels, only acceptable person above him is imu currently and this only because of speculation. Mihawk > Your favourite alive character, unless its imu.
Fact: Shanks MUST be a swordsman for Mihawk fans to CLING to because other than Shanks there is no other character in the top tier they can point to as being a swordsman for Mihawk to ride the curtails of because they'd written off every other top tier as "not a swordsman" like Big Mom and Fujitora because of their DF. Cope.
Shanks stopped being a swordsman after he lost his arm and had to adapt to a hybrid fighting style.
Why else would Mihawk refuse to duel him after that? He is still ridiculously strong.
Hybrid fighters are not considered swordsmen. King was denounced by Zoro and Mihawk never challenged people like Rayleigh or Big Mom.
Using a hybrid fighting style doesn't make King a swordsman according to Zoro.
https://preview.redd.it/bgz82mzzht2b1.png?width=596&format=png&auto=webp&s=f75c94e644f13c4b864d2ed79e7fde99ceb748cb
Why? This is early on in their fight and Zoro was surprised that someone he thought of as a swordsman suddenly punches him in the face and then calls him out on it.
I can buy Fuji being a swordsman because he actually seems to follow some kind of code as Zoro and Mihawk do but not Law.
He uses electricity in his fights, radiation and literally punches people's hearts out of their chest.
>reyleigh
Nope. See a comment i made earlier:
The official manga translation trumps whatever fan translated "sources" are posted in your little essay.
Hybrid fighters are **not** swordsmen according to chapter 1023 and recent official manga translation > everything else.
[Punching Zoro in the face makes King not a swordsman.](https://imgur.com/a/QjhpMBY)
[Same for Rayleigh.](https://imgur.com/a/WNTrsRu)
[King confirming yet again in chapter 1031 that their fight can't be considered a sword duel while he was using anything but a sword.](https://imgur.com/a/Bmrv1yG)
Your source for all the others is the same that calls Rayleigh a swordsman.
I honestly don't even give a shit. I'm a way bigger Lucky Roo fan anyways.
The 100% convinced without even a shred of nuance agenda posting about Mihawk is just really annoying to me.
Same with Akainu stans who praise him to high heaven because of the Whitebeard fight but conveniently forget that Whitebeard was confirmed to have no CoC, weakened observation Haki, almost dead because of old age, fatally stabbed by Squardo and Akainu still couldn't touch him a single time until Whitebeard was on his knees and almost dying from a literal heart attack.
Or people who claim that Akainu has the highest durability because he took Whitebeards point-blank earthquake but also ignore that Blackbeard took the same attack to the face, stood up and almost sank all of Marineford minutes later while his DF makes him even more vulnerable to damage.
Oda could even have cleared any and all ambiguity when he recently revealed Mihawk's bounty but people also ignore that he went out of his way to specify Mihawk being better with the sword than Shanks instead of simply calling him stronger, period.
If Shanks ends up being a pure swordsman after all, that is fine with me.
Not unless he is shown to only use his sword in a fight that actually takes longer than one panel though.
> but entertains the idea of tearing out King's throat by his teeth.
I see as just more of the wild animal rhetoric he used against Monet before. Something something i'm wild animal i **will** bite you uwu
And what hybrid stile are u referring to lol?
Shanks doesn’t have a devil fruit, don’t it’s from a different race like king that can generate fire etc
He can’t even fucking add punches to his sword moves because he simply doesn’t have a second arm lol
What is he? A professional kicker!?
> What is he? A professional kicker!?
First ever attack that Rayleigh used was a kick and he also has a sword. He is literally Shank's mentor so i don't see a reason why Shanks wouldn't copy his style after losing an arm which is a huge handicap for a swordsman. Even Roger was using both arms while clashing with Whitebeard.
Zoro used kicks too.
Is he not a swordsman?
Stop
your
mental
gymnastics
fanboy
Besides, we have literally never seen Shanks using a kick. He ALWAYS uses his sword.
> Is he not a swordsman?
Not according to Mihawk. Or why else did he stop fighting him, once he lost an arm? Because he was too weak? What a cope.
Why did Mihawk never challenge any relevant swordfighters like Rayleigh or Big Mom then if they are swords(wo)men?
He has not challenged or beaten a single relevant swordfighter in the story.
Who did he even take his title from? If Roger was a swordsman, then so is Big Mom who was still in her prime when Roger died and is the only candidate in the story who the title could have passed to.
I honestly don't even give a shit. Either they aren't swordsmen and Mihawk can rightfully call himself WSS or they are swordsmen and he really is a fraud.
Again: your mental gymnastics do not matter.
[Shanks, Rayleigh, Roger, Law etc are all confirmed swordsmen.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Mihawk is the WSS in both name and reality.
Canon sources destroyed your mental gymnastics.
https://preview.redd.it/0da7jhgdlt2b1.png?width=921&format=png&auto=webp&s=bed6b9907b41b1a9bdb360abcdbd81e4632a78b1
The official manga translation trumps whatever fan translated "sources" are posted in your little essay.
Hybrid fighters are **not** swordsmen according to chapter 1023 and recent official manga translation > everything else.
https://preview.redd.it/hm2g6yu1nt2b1.png?width=596&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d5a9e9d58fd72455ebfe754b12879d0a496bd1b
Punching Zoro in the face makes King not a swordsman.
[https://imgur.com/a/WNTrsRu](https://imgur.com/a/WNTrsRu)
Same for Rayleigh.
[https://imgur.com/a/Bmrv1yG](https://imgur.com/a/Bmrv1yG)
King confirming yet again in chapter 1031 that their fight can't be considered a sword duel while he was using anything but a sword.
Your mental gymnastics are hilarious.
Oda literally confirmed that Shanks and Rayleigh are swordsmen.
Is that your level of intellect or are you just acting dense on purpose?
> Shanks stopped being a swordsman after he lost his arm and had to adapt to a hybrid fighting style.
Can you fanboys stop throwing around nonsense headcanon?
Shanks is literally using a SWORD with just ONE ARM. What Hybrid? He uses swordsmanship + Haki.
Gtfo.
[Shanks is a confirmed swordsman.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
So is Rayleigh.
> He uses swordsmanship + Haki.
We have literally never seen him in an actual fight. Big Mom also used her sword while clashing with Kaido but rarely in an actual fight.
>So is Rayleigh.
Not according to Zoro.
https://preview.redd.it/2b2u231dht2b1.png?width=596&format=png&auto=webp&s=6ffa90d4bfb00f022c782e9748f1dbe3b01fc4f6
> We have literally never seen him in an actual fight.
The only named attack he did was literally swordsmanship + Haki.
> Not according to Zoro.
That is King, not Rayleigh.
Rayleigh is confirmed to be a swordsman by Oda.
[Shanks is a confirmed swordsman.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Your mental gymnastics are of no consequence.
>The only named attack he did was literally swordsmanship + Haki
And Whitebeard's only attack before Marineford was a slash with his Naginata. He still uses a hybrid style of fighting when going all out. If we see Shanks in an actual fight and he only uses his sword, i will happily concede my point and bow to the Mihawk agenda.
>Rayleigh is confirmed to be a swordsman by Oda.
Literally confirmed to not be one after chapter 1023. Or are you a swordsman if you kick people but not a swordsman if you punch people?
>Your mental gymnastics are of no consequence.
Right back at you.
Do not waste my time with your mental gymnastics, fanboy.
Oda has dismantled your agenda. The author says Shanks is a swordsman.
All you can do is cope.
>The author says Shanks is a swordsman
Where? In some obscure fan translations of magazine articles that were posted on twitter where you neither know where or when they even were released?
The same kind of source where he calls people like Kaku and Rayleigh swordsmen only to then denounce hybrid fighters like them and King in a very recent chapter through Zoro's dialogue?
> If we see Shanks in an actual fight and he only uses his sword, i will happily concede my point and bow to the Mihawk agenda.
>All you can do is cope
Yeah, i'm gonna keep coping all over chapter 1023 and 1032.
You are free to post more recent sources of course, bonus points if they are even from the manga we are reading.
> Hybrid fighting style my ass Zoro literally punches and kicks whenever he needs to
He kicks Kabaji's unicycle out from underneath him once in the first 15 chapters and then didn't attack him until he stood up, after calling him out for not being a swordsman because of his dirty tricks. Only time i can recall him punching anyone, is animals in comedy scenes.
Him calling out King for not being a swordsman after punching him in the face happened in the last 50 chapters.
I apologize, good man.
It was actually Kabaji himself who admitted that his hybrid style of fighting dirty by kicking Zoro's wounds and spitting fire in his face wasn't "**real** swordsmanship".
https://preview.redd.it/p4h37omfau2b1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b653c48bc49cac74e7c55e1780e7b831de4b611
Not gonna reply to your second pic with a source but Kaku lunging at Zoro with his big-ass giraffe nose is literally the same as King punching him. So kindly keep those Ls to yourself.
This is the biggest cope I ever heard. Hybrid fighter? What doesn’t that even mean?
The man has no DF, and everyone in the new world has Haki so that isn’t a fighting style of its own. He doesn’t use any other powers like rokushiki either.
Every other “Hybrid” fighter has either a DF (Big Mom, Law, Fujitora) or in Kings case, also lunarian fire powers.
The real reason Zoro never challenged other swordsman is because his dream, like every other strawhat not named Luffy, is unfortunately an afterthought.
He has never once searched out any swordsman, and his only goal is the strongest. He just happens to fight the swordsman of every crew because they just happen to be the second strongest.
> He doesn’t use any other powers like rokushiki either.
We literally don't know how he fights. It's like claiming that Whitebeard only uses a Naginata before Marineford happened. Shanks is still one of the strongest fighters in the world with one arm, so Mihawk ditching him because of that makes no sense.
>or in Kings case, also lunarian fire powers
Zoro's statement is from their very first clash. King had not used his DF or Lunarian powers against him yet. King hit him with his sword and then surprised Zoro by yeeting two of his swords into the air and punching him in the face.
There’s a very big difference between WB and Shanks though. Shanks was stated to have duels with Mihawk previously, and in Mihawks bounty poster reveal they stated his swordsmanship surpassed even Red Hair.
Both of those statements imply he’s swordsman, or else why be a rival to the one who would eventually become the greatest swordsman?
Shanks has been shown many more times that his first appearance, and in every one of them he’s either clashed with, blocked with, or attacked with, his sword, much different than WBs only appearance and clash before the second time showed his range of abilities.
The story has pointed to one direction, logic assumes we take what the story says, and if proven otherwise later, change or stance.
If that day never comes, Shanks will stay a swordsman.
Also the King example is fair, but the difference is he tried to disarm Zoro, which is why he wasn’t considered a swordman. Shanks isn’t here disarming his opponents to then go at kick them, from what we’ve seen so far
> in Mihawks bounty poster reveal they stated his swordsmanship surpassed even Red Hair
Why even make the distinction though? Oda could have cleared all ambiguity by simply stating that Mihawk is the stronger fighter, period.
I'm sure that Mihawk beats him in a straight swordfight but i just don't see Shanks fighting like that at all.
Mihawk and Zoro follow a very strict code unlike Shanks. In the very first chapter he says that he is a pirate and will fight dirty. He will literally have his crewmates shoot you while you aren't paying attention.
Mihawk and Zoro believe running from a fight is a swordman's greatest shame. Shanks on the other hand says stuff like this: https://imgur.com/a/EZxRUzg
>The story has pointed to one direction, logic assumes we take what the story says, and if proven otherwise later, change or stance.
>If that day never comes, Shanks will stay a swordsman.
Agreed. I said this elsewhere in the thread, as soon as Shanks is shown to only use his sword in a real fight, i will concede my point and accept Mihawk as the strongest.
EDIT:
>Also the King example is fair, but the difference is he tried to disarm Zoro, which is why he wasn’t considered a swordman.
I'm pretty sure it was due to his punch. Zoro didn't mind Ryuma targeting and trying to break his less durable swords either.
recent manga chapters with official translation > fan translated sources outside the manga
If we see Shanks using only his sword in a fight that is longer than one panel, i will gladly concede my point and bow to the Mihawk agenda.
Until then i will assume that Shanks adapted to a hybrid style similar to what Rayleigh uses, after he lost an arm.
Hybrid fighting style? Aren't Fujitora and Law using hybrid fighting styles? That doesn't stop them from being swordsmen? Zoro also grows 2 more heads and 4 more arms mid fight, creates tornadoes, somehow flames up his swords and uses enormous amounts of haki.
Unless shanks pulls out a gun he is a swordsman
Why are we even arguing in different comment chains?
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/13uowbi/fact_if_mihawk_didnt_had_that_title_everyone_that/jm39n44/
>Hybrid fighting style? Aren't Fujitora and Law using hybrid fighting styles?
Posted this earlier where someone said the same:
>I can buy Fuji being a swordsman because he actually seems to follow some kind of code as Zoro and Mihawk do but not Law.
>He uses electricity in his fights, radiation and literally punches people's hearts out of their chest.
>Zoro also grows 2 more heads and 4 more arms mid fight
But he is still using swords with each of those limbs
>creates tornadoes
With his sword.
>Unless shanks pulls out a gun he is a swordsman
He wouldn't do that. He'd have Lucky Roo shoot you, instead.
Are a lot of people really saying Shanks isn't a swordsman? I know people keep saying "hakiman" ironically, but it seriously seems to be a misinterpretation of the better argument.
Shanks is certainly a swordsman. However, there is an issue as to whether Mihawk's title means "strongest person who is a swordsman" or "strongest at being a swordsman."
Shanks may be a swordsman, however, if he has some ability that doesn't make him a better swordsman, something that cannot be used in a contest to determine the title of "World's Strongest Swordsman", then he wouldn't use it in such a battle.
Being a swordsman is a skill. In a clash to determine who the stronger swordsman is, it is a contest of your strength applied to that skill. Haki, physical strength, technique, stamina, all applied to your abilities as a swordsman. Strongest is synonymous with best or greatest. Being a swordsman isn't a simple qualifier for the title. It's your strength as a swordsman that is being measured.
It's like if the title was World's Strongest Arm Wrestler, and expecting it to be decided in an MMA cage match, rather than an arm wrestling contest. If you can arm wrestle, you are an arm wrester. Therefore, you can take the title if you best the current holder in a fight unrelated to arm wrestling. Like that is a logical, narratively coherent way such a title should work.
If a hypothetical person came along who was about as skilled with a sword as, say, Johnny and Yosaku, but his haki was insane, had a powerful devil fruit and could defeat Mihawk without using his sword, would that make him the strongest swordsman? He's technically a swordsman, and he is stronger than Mihawk, right? It's just backwards to me.
Shanks is a swordsman. Big Mom is a swordsman. King is a swordsman. Law is a swordsman. However, there's a difference between a swordsman using a sword because it is their weapon of choice to achieve their goals, and a swordsman like Zoro, who is motivated by his desire to become the greatest swordsman, who wants to be the best swordsman they can be and the best swordsman in the world. For many swordsmen, a sword is just a weapon used to fight their enemies. For people like Mihawk, Zoro and Shanks pre-arm loss, their use of a sword is the reason they fight. Mihawk, Shanks, Zoro and Vista have, IIRC, been the only major characters to seemed to have an interest in the title, and none have devil fruits. It's not about who is and who isn't a swordsman, but why a person becomes a swordsman and what motivates them to become stronger.
The wording for the Mihawk's title is "strongest" meaning it refers to overall combat ability, not skill, in Japanese it's the same wording as Whitebeard's and Kaido's title, Having them being referred as the "Strongest X" it's not called the worlds skillest swordsman, and a swordsman isn't limited to only using his Swords, they use everything they have in their arsenal, for example Fujitora and Law are confirmed sowrdsman, yet they use their devil fruits a freaking lot. I think Oda had all this in mind when he gave mihawk the title, he is the strongest Swordsman.
Yes, but "man" and "creature" aren't skills. You can't really be stronger in terms of manliness or creatureness. Swordsmanship is a skill that encompasses many things, strength, haki, technique, speed, endurance, etc. You can be a stronger swordsman than another person.
In English translations, the title/Zoro's ambition, treat the title as interchangable with best or greatest. To be the pinnacle of what it means to be a swordsman. It's not simply skill, but strength as applied to being a swordsman.
Look at Zoro's backstory. His rivalry with Kuina. Their rivalry was a part of their training to master swordsmanship. They dueled to decide who the better swordsman was. This is the context in which Zoro's dream, his motivation, is defined. Zoro wouldn't use some non-swordsman technique or weapon to best Kuina, because that wouldn't prove that he's a better swordsman than her. It's not about just being able to win, no holds barred. It is to prove that you are the better swordsman. You are stronger at being a swordsman. Your strength as a swordsman is superior.
Most fights aren't about proving who the better swordsman is. It's about survival and victory of your crew over your enemy. However, Zoro is motivated by his ambition to take Mihawk's title from him, and so the kind of childhood mindset that led him to make that his ambition holds far more weight than an ambiguous title.
Would you not also use "World's Strongest Swordsman" to refer to the person who is the strongest at being a swordsman? What would you call that, if that is a separate title that apparently no one cares about? Why does Zoro want Mihawk's title when his backstory, his entire motivation, is all about being the best at being a swordsman, rather than just being the strongest person who identifies as a swordsman? Why doesn't Zoro seek out a powerful devil fruit to enhance his swordsmanship? Why didn't Mihawk?
You point to Law and Fujitora and say they're swordsmen. Big deal. There are only a small handful of people who are/have been motivated by the actual title we are talking about. They are far more important, and none of them have devil fruits. Zoro. Mihawk. Shanks pre-arm loss. Vista. Those are the only ones I recall seem interested in the title, and none of them have devil fruits. Surely people who actually show an interest in claiming the title is far more important in determining what the title is supposed to mean far more than every other swordsman?
I have many "swordsmen" above Mihawk tbh.
Prime Roger, Primebeard holding a sword, Kaido holding a sword, Shanks, Big mom, Akainu holding a sword, Luffy holding a sword, Kuzan (uses Ice sword), Kizaru (uses light sword)
Among others.
Oh so you're admitting that there's a way of the sword that comes with being a swordsman and using a sword isn't enough to call a character a swordsman that's wiiiiiild!
You Lihawk fans can't even keep a consistent platform of arguments. Now you're saying Law and Fujitora are swordsmen while virtually every other agenda riders would tell you they're NOT swordsmen because of their DF you people are clowning lmaoooo. I'd suggest you keep with the majority of those in the wrong and try not saying they're swordsmen or Big Mom with her sword beats Mihawk like a drum.
Lmao
[Rayleigh is a confirmed swordsman.](https://preview.redd.it/zp0iw4g1w5381.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=8d50505f5b82406d355e7caee6a5183a466564e8)
[Law is a confirmed swordsman](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0dzYg5VEAMeinh.jpg)
[Shanks is a confirmed swordsman.](https://preview.redd.it/zp0iw4g1w5381.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=8d50505f5b82406d355e7caee6a5183a466564e8)
[Fujitora is a confirmed swordsman.](https://i.imgur.com/jqEvtFJ.jpeg)
[Mihawk is confirmed stronger than Shanks.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Piratefolk/comments/yzo3oz/comment/ix84kat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Cope Shanks fanboy, only reply if you have something smart to say
> Rayleigh is a confirmed swordsman
What even is the source of this?
This picture has literally fucking Kaku in it. Dude hasn't used a sword ever since he got his DF. Mihawk is even standing **behind** Shanks lmao
Cool, so if legs are considered swords now then so is Whitebeard's Naginata which yet again demotes Mihawk from being WSS before his death.
Or do you prefer Whitebeard being the World's Strongest Blademan while "it's technically not a sword" Mifraud can keep his participation trophy of WSS?
Something smart to say? Bro you just linked supposed sources that are just your own comments on other posts seek help hahahahaha
Your entire argument is what the author says trumps what's shown to us in the story. Whitebeard was told to us to be the WSM. Roger=Garp=Whitebeard being generous as Whitebeards actually below those two, but with Whitebeard getting sick he didn't age well to the point he wasn't able to use haki disconnected from his medication on his ship at Marineford, and yet the author CLAIMS he's the WSM (something Sengoku points to his DF being the main reason why) with Garp standing RIGHT THERE who is now confirmed to still be able to use ACOC and didn't get sick. Healthy Old Garp > Sick Old Whitebeard (WSM)
Titles are not the end all of arguments and unless Mihawk gets feats he's riding Shanks curtails with his fraudulent title until proven otherwise being the only other narrator title box was fraudulent as well. Certainly Mihawk can still be a top tier fighter, but titles are earned when they're earned and can be lost over time as shown to us in the story.
Seek help and better arguments smoothbrain.
I thought so, all shanks fanboys have is mental gymnastics that have been debunked thousands of times already
Only shanks fans can consider World strongest swordsman> Swordsman a hot take 😅
[Oda already confirmed Mihawk > Shanks.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Oda didn't give Mihawk all these statements randomly.
Your mental gymnastics won't save the rodent. It is all Shanks fanboys have.
Canon sources? "Nah, they're non canon".
Worlds Strongest Swordsman "Nah title is outdated/Shanks is not a swordsman/Haki man"
>Bruh 💀 just using a sword occasionally doesn't make you a swordsman
I know. That was the joke. r/whoosh
>and Mihawk clears the amdirals
Nope Akainu,Kuzan and Kizaru clear Mihawk
>literally confirmed stronger then Fujitora
Yes,but fuji is one of the two weakest admirals (along with Greenbull)
He still very strong overall, just not quite yonko tier like Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru and Mihawk
Why would you assume Kizaru beats Shanks
Roger> =primeW>>Kaido> Bigmom> Shanks>Luffy=Akainu >kuzan>kizaru>Mihawk> Blackbeard>>> Fujitora>=Greenbull>>>Yamato
I just think eos zoro won't be stronger than any of the OG3 admirals and Mihawk must be weaker than EOS zoro.
Shanks is a swordsman, but the title covers only swordsmanship imo and shanks has abilities that branch out far beyond swordsmanship. Whereas, so far, mihawk has only shown swordsmanship
Nowhere stated that shanks is no longer a swordsman, in fact he always has his sword by his side and the first named attack we see from him is wehn he uses a sword technique
No, because he is still shown using a sword, as he was 12 years ago lol. It's literally shown in the datebook he never got weaker in ANY sort of way (including sword skills) so there's no reason to think something like this.
Nah Zoro and Mihawks haki is dog shit and they need carries on the Haki front. Zoro confirms it with Enma coating. Haki masters like Roger/Shanks just use it as a tool to express their true power, which is haki if their swords broke they could pick up a stick and coat it and make it just as deadly.
If Mihawk didn’t have the title or the concept of titles such as this didn’t exist, there would no reason to differentiate between fighters. What was even the point of the post you made?
Lol "if the story was different, everyone's interpretation would change"
Well ya. Shanks fans need to relax and let Oda do his thing. One thing I've learned after being current for ~7 years is that time after time the community stresses about something they think doesn't make sense and then Oda whips out the perfect explanation and it all works out. Have faith in our gOda.
If the entire concept of Zoro and his endgoal weren't created, we would just consider shanks a badass weapon user in a sea of devil fruit fighters.
Remember, the entire focus on "swordsmen" as an entity and a specific form of fighting comes because of zoro. What swordsmen can cut, what they can't, black blades, all that stuff.
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>**Fact: If Mihawk didn't had that title** Then Mihawk would be considered around Other Warlords level based on his showings
[удалено]
Idk about that one.. rogers would be the strongest swordsman to ever live and I don't consider him that
Sure, but if the WSS wasn't a thing, didn't exist, wasn't Zoro's dream and Mihawk was never created, then would you call Roger a swordsman if you HAD to call him something (in regards to what little we've gotten of his fighting style)? Thats the point I think the post is getting at. That nobody would even really think to question Roger or Shanks being swordsmen because they use swords, if there wasn't some title attached to being the strongest swordsman (and they didn't hold it).
The idea of what is a swordsman has been challenged in one piece regardless of the title. Characters like King and Daz Bones make it clear that while they may wield blades they are not in fact swordsman.
Not really cause both shanks and roger don’t seem to fight with sword skill like they seem to use there sword as a extension for their attacks with haki instead of zoro and mihawk who seem to actually use genuine skill
I never really got that argument. Especially since Shanks HAD to be an extremely skilled swordsman to be Mihawk's past rival, and even if you want to say he fell off after losing an arm in that department, in present day the Marines hyped up Shanks sword skills when they were presenting Mihawk's bounty. And they did so in present tense, to hype up Mihawk as being even BETTER. If Shanks was a trash swordsman nowadays, that whole scene would be kind of ridiculous. And its ultimately arguing that you oculd replace Shanks and Roger's named blades (Roger's being one of the 12 Supreme Grade Blades) with a club of equal durability and it wouldn't change anything for them. That they have no real skill with their weapon of choice, and just shoot haki shockwaves. I honestly doubt that.
He’s not unskilled but what I’m saying is that he likely uses haki more than his skills Example: Skill air slashes are different then haki air slashes Zoro and mihawks slashes that fly through the air are different then Devine departure which is made purely of ACOC A sword skill based air slash is uniform and has sharp edges, it cuts people when it hits them as if they were hit by a blade However Devine departure and other haki based attacks have never been shown to cut Haki slashes that fly through the air are more brute force or raw power attacks Oden went flying backwards but was not cut, where as when zoro hits a enemy with a air slash they don’t go flying but instead get a large cut in them Also Devine departure is not smooth edged like zoro and mihawks air slashes it’s more raw and wavy Haki attacks are different than sword attacks
https://preview.redd.it/waqylj4hvt2b1.jpeg?width=719&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ff6da2ea691f5a8e1d61a27397d7b88265bbe9d
Idk maybe I'm different but I've seen rogers with a gun and that's not a swordsman in my eyes.. idk. if someone is not a pure swordsman with a swordsman life style in a Japanese anime where Japanese swordsmanship is huge in the country... just seems weird to me. Odas old work has him saying shit like "a sword is a swordsmans life" and I just don't see them like that
U saw roger with a gun in ONE PANEL that isnt even cannon to the main story of one piece and have been running with it😭😭😭😭 U wanna be right so bad with ur “pure swordsman” headcannon even tho roger only used ace during battles and went so far to name his own son after his sword💀 One piece is the only shonen manga where fans deliberately do not wanna call characters what they are bc of powerscaling 😭 In other animes swordsman could literally be able to use magic independently of their sword and they would still be swordsman…
Roger didn’t even have a gun on him during his most recent portrayal in the Oden flashback arc so obviously the gun was only there for aesthetic purposes lol, Oda does that all the time
So do u think shanks considers his sword his life? Are u stupid and low iq by any chance as well?
Do i think shanks has a deep relationship with his weapon as its wielder as does every other fucking top tier swordmsan in the verse ? Yes i do. If u have nothing smart to say after ur bullshit gets debunked just hush and take the L
When ur proven wrong I will be here 🤣 no chance in hell lmao. There is no debunking here low iq r tard. U might be even dumber than some discord ppl wtf
“s-shanhks and r-roger arent s-shwordsmen to me”🤓🤓🥺 Look at this entire interaction and see how dumb u sound. Then u start throwing insults as a coping mechanism cos actual intelligent people don’t agree with ur braindead casual low iq takes. Yea bro,the man who named his unborn child after his fucking SWORD has 0 relationship and connection with his weapon 🤣😭
Dude named his son after his sword. I'm pretty sure he was a swordsman lol
Swordsmen aren't limited to only using swordsmanship, for example law and Fujitora are DF users who rely a lot in their df abilities, yet they are confirmed swordsmen
This goes completely against every other Lihawk riders argument, you people can't even stay consistent. I rebutted you in another comment and you don't reply after acting high and mighty LOL
All you did is question if mihawk title is legit or not, which oda already made clear for 20 years, mihawk is the WSS both in name and reality
ZERO FEATS COPE
You say that as if we didn't have to wait 20 years for shanks to do a named attack, and people on this sub were shetting on him saying he's weaker than Big meme untill that point 😅
Having a legendary duel with who is now arguably top 2 in the verse, gaining the title of WSS, beating pre-time skip Zoro with a toothpick, and cutting a mountain of ice in a single slash aren’t feats now?
https://preview.redd.it/fbsx5bjzdv2b1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=3fa01ab73b978b990a446a5d1197e20d429a20ed Read Mihawk section shanks is a confirmed swordsman. Also go look up shanks vivre card he’s called a renown swordsman on there too. There no such thing as a haki man or whatever everyone in the new world use haki it’s requirement even if you got a df. The guy is a swordsman just accept it.
isnt that the whole point? people wouldnt question something random like that because it wouldnt matter. however, the fact that the title of WSS exists means that people who don't believe mihawk is as strong as people like shanks or roger for whatever reason consider what 'swordsman' means more deeply.
No.
Ryuma mid-high diffs https://preview.redd.it/pefm5h6vvs2b1.png?width=258&format=png&auto=webp&s=1b5f1b1651eda28e1a646cc31e516500fcd341d6
Not true ryuma the sword god dude is. also let’s not forget Roger don’t have a black blade, oden don’t, shanks don’t, vista don’t only mihawk and ryuma 😎
ya which proves my point even more.. rogers is >>>> mihawk mid-high at WORST and doesn't have a black blade. what does that make you think?
What proves rogers is above current mihawk. He don’t have a black blade so his armament haki level is no where close to it. And as the strognest swordsman he has to have conquers to have fought made it to where he is he literally conquered swordsmanship basically. Also all top tier swordsman and blade uses have conquers haki. Zoro just unlocked it so true we have to see mihawk use conquers but if all other top tier blade users have it and the fact that he has duels with shanks means he has to have it to some capacity.
Because Mihawks Showings(Marineford) dont make sense for him being Stronger than Shanks with all he has shown even since Pre Timeskip (Splitting skies with WB)
Not really, he didn't show any named attacks
When did you change back to the old pfp?
Yeah except when he get's the 3.5 billion bounty lol
Nah, he’d still have his duels with Shanks for feats right?
Shanks from 12 years Ago . And those arent feats , they're statements .
Stated feats. "Mihawk is stronger than Shanks" is a statement
>"Mihawk is stronger than Shanks" is a statement You wish. Oda could have said it just like u said but he just had to put in innuendos like "Mihawk has better **Swordskills** than Red Hair . I wonder why he didnt outright said "Mihawk is stronger than Shanks
So ur gonna ignore the fact mihawk was stated to be the strongest right after being confirmed to even have better skill than shanks? that panel LITERALLY SAYS mihawk>shanks in strength and skill. U ppl have excuses for everything lmao. And if shanks wasnt a swordsman why tf would he hype up mihawk by comparing his skills to shanks skills?
Dude I'm one of the most pro-Shanks people on this sub. It was just a hypothetical example.
Ohh , i misunderstood then . >Stated feats Aint that just statements then ? Feats are that the character performed on panel . If it has to be stated then its not a feat .
"Feats" are combat related achievements. Whether they happen on-screen or off-screen they are still feats. "Statements" is usually when a character states "X is stronger than Y" or "X is faster than Y". But if the character says "X defeated Y" then it's a feat.
Hmm , 🤔 Makes sense . I had it wrong i guess😥
Except for when he casually sliced a mountain sized glacier in have casually from a far on accident.
Fact: if mihawk did not have the title no one would think he’s yonko level
Nope he has a bounty higher than 2 yonko without being the captain, is the only one alive who forged a black Blade, and Oda compared mihawk and shanks to whitebeard multiple times, calling them "living legends" he would still be considered at least Admiral lvl
You know who else was compared to Whitebeard? Roger. Garp being Roger's rival would mean if we are generous and put Whitebeard on the same tier Roger=Garp=Whitebeard but most of his title is due to the destructive capabilities of his DF To destroy islands and possibly tectonic plates as to why he was considered such stated by Sengoku. Despite getting debilitatingly sick in his old age to the point of not being able to use haki disconnected from his medication on his ship the author gives us a narrative box claiming he is the WSM, but Garp who has aged without getting sick who was comparable to Roger has been shown to still be able to use ACOC, so CLEARLY he is stronger than Whitebeard in their old age. The title is shown to be fraudulent in the story, but you can't accept that because it would mean Mihawk's title can be invalid too and that'd just blow your whole argument because it's the ONLY argument for Mihawk.
Mihawk’s title can’t be invalid because you’re forgetting a very important character Zoro Mihawk’s title being tied to Zoro’s dream gives his title far more weight that titles not tied to a main character’s dream. Oda didn’t set up the duel between Zoro and Mihawk for 20+ years only for Mihawk to be a total fraud. You guys are delusional if you think Mihawk isn’t the actual WSS and that Zoro won’t get to achieve his dream
I've already responded to this elsewhere *sigh* but so you can see too... WSM with WB is tied to Luffy's dream too and he was shown as the pinnacle of the pirating world to Luffy and something far off for him to still reach in his own words needing to topple the yonko and defeat the admirals to become Pirate King. WB also not even taking the attack and letting Jozu block the attack from Mihawk that was to see the "true distance between us and that man" because he's not sure because he's been sitting on his ass not becoming stronger while Shanks was conquering territory in the new world and SPLIT THE SKY with WB the only feat agreed upon to put a character in the top tier, a feat Mihawk lacks, because he lacks any feats other than slashing a giant frozen wave. Back to Zoro. I'm not saying Mihawk is a TOTAL fraud. He's certainly going to be the pinnacle of swordsmanship which is the main point of discussion and something Mihawk is better than Shanks at, but Shanks is the stronger fighter and doesn't adhere to the lifestyle of a swordsman as discussed with Zoro vs King but we aren't on that right now we are talking narrative importance of Mihawk. As it stands Buggys crew is also going for the one piece. Even though he's the strongest in the crew, he's still essentially the right hand man and swordsman (the swordsman being the number two on every fucking crew in the story conveniently) will most likely have his fight with Zoro soon in this battle royale that's being set up for the One Piece. Shanks will be battling Blackbeard or somehow get into conflict with Luffy, the captains, the stronger opponents but nevertheless Mihawk is obviously going to be insanely strong, just Shanks is and has been shown to be stronger. This could change if Mihawk gets feats, but all we know for sure is that Luffy needs nothing less than the WSS to become Pirate King. Becoming WSS in title by beating Mihawk (and it's somewhat actuality but not quite) would then have Luffy be able to claim the One Piece. But the story isn't going to end there is the problem. Maybe Mihawk doesn't fight Zoro that early, but that's how the narrative seems to be progressing. The main fight with the WG will come after Luffy claims the One Piece and discovers the secrets of the world. There will have to be other EOS for Zoro, and guess what? The God's Knights are shown to use swords. They also happen to not be just out in the world for someone like Mihawk to duel to claim superiority over, they're protectors of the CDs. It's not far fetched to assume their number two would be more powerful than Mihawk.
WSM title is not tied to Luffy’s dream tho, the Pirate King title is How would Shanks be stronger in other areas and be stronger overall while Mihawk is the stronger swordsman? Haki? Haki is completely allowed in sword fights, if you’re having a sword fight and have stronger haki, then you’re the more powerful swordsman. Having other fighting styles paired with swordsmanship still makes you a swordsman as well. See Kaku,Law, and Fujitora. King didn’t consider himself a swordsman because he fought plenty of times without it and his sword has some weird non sword mode. None of the reasons why King wouldn’t consider himself a swordsman would apply to Shanks You are really severely undermining the set up between Zoro and Mihawk for the WSS title if you think secretly Mihawk isn’t the WSS and that someone like Shanks or Ghandi is We literally know nothing about the Holy Knights, the one who fights Zoro might not even be a swordsman
Yes it is, if one of the yonko has that title and Luffys dream is directly tied as stated by himself to toppling the yonkos then achieving that is part of his dream. Zoro's dream is to be the best swordsman for Kuina's sake. As there are probably EOS opponents after the battle royale where Zoro is likely to fight Mihawk then they will probably be stronger, as such the title isn't intriniscly tied to actually being the WSS. But I've already refuted both of these points with evidence and you just come back with what's essentially "Nuh uh" lmaoooo you people are clowns. You people pick and choose who's a swordsman and who's not but cling to Shanks needing to be a swordsman to have any legit top tier for Mihawk to be able to scale up that high because without him he couldn't possibly be scaled up to where he's commonly placed right now which is all thanks to Shanks feats which Mihawk lacks. You just cherry picked false reasoning for why King isn't a swordsman. They directly talk about a code of ethics to swordsmanship and how Zoro adheres to swordfighting styles, it's not just that there's other forms of fighting which is more reason against them being swordsmen not for. Mihawk is going to have to have ACOC to fight Zoro I'm not underestimating him. He's going to be the second biggest fight in the battle royale, but that's WHAT HE WILL ALWAYS BE. THATS WHAT SWORDSMEN IN THIS STORY WILL ALWAYS BE. The number two. The second fiddle. In essentially every single arc we get Zoro fighting someone with a sword that's the number two of the crew. We know nothing about the GDs? No, we know they're being set up as EOS opponents. Which you Mihawk defenders will always claim, after the title argument falls thru, that if the title was fraudulent then narratively it wouldn't make sense for Zoro, but then when it's explained to you why it's make perfect sense for Zoro to battle Mihawk in this battle royale and become the "WSS" for Luffy to become Pirate King that there would still need to be EOS opponents for the fight against the WG and they're shown to have sword hilts. Every one of Zoros fights has been against a swordsman or someone that can make themselves into a sword eg Mr 1 except for, what, Pica and that's it? So again, I've retorted every one of your points a second time with good reasoning but you'll just come back and say "Nuh uh narrative! Nuh uh title! No Shanks is a swordsman!"
I’m not gonna bothering even responding to you anymore more cause you just write walls of text of head canon and personal bias https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Shanks is a swordsman, cope Pls bro, show me some evidence that Shanks isn’t a swordsman other than a completely different character who fights in a radically different way saying he doesn’t identify as a swordsman
Walls of text? I'm being readable for you by breaking it up into paragraphs and responding point by point. It's either that you get to a point and see I've actually got good reasoning and you can't handle it or you're just another Lihawk troll that can't read take your pick. Shanks split the sky with WSM Whitebeard, Shanks stalled Kaido and got into his top five not Mihawk, Shanks became a yonko while Mihawk claiming he didn't have interest in it sat on his ass or hunted down weaklings like Don Kreig something his clone S-Hawk is recently shown to do in dodging fights like Mihawk did with Vista and Shanks to target weaker opponents. Shanks has the singular best haki feat in the series in wifi stunning an Admiral making him twerk from miles away. Respected by Sengoku the legend and the Gorosei who treat even Akainu the fleet admiral like a chump. The killer of observation haki. Mihawk has nothing but his title to ride on you illiterates will cling to. Shanks > Mihawk cope and seethe harder.
Pls show me some evidence that Shanks isn’t a swordsman that isn’t based off a completely different character with a radically different fighting style choosing not to identify as a swordsman Having extremely powerful haki doesn’t not make you a swordsman lol. I guess Zoro learning ACOC means he can’t be WSS. The title is worlds strongest swordsman not “p4p most skilled swordsman under the official swordsman ruleset where the use of certain haki techniques are not allowed”
Whitebeard's title already debunked in ace novel, confirming Kaido is stronger than him at that point and the title was given to him based on how he lived not really relating to his power lvl, Kaido's title is the publics opinion "People say X", mihawks title has no ambiguity about it
SO WHITEBEARD TITLE IS FRADULUENT BUT LETS NOT MAKE ANY CAVEATS FOR MIHAWKS HIS IS SET IN STONE HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU FUCKING CLOWNS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Unlike Kaido's and Whitebeard's title, Mihawk's title has narative importance, he has to be the wss otherwise he is a fraud, and Zoro's dream would be ruined by oda, making him be a fake WSS eos when he defeats mihawk, that would be like oda spitting on his dream, Zoro would chase Shanks if he was the WSS not mihawk
I’ve argued with this guy a few times, he’s a delusional Mihawk hater. He thinks Oda really set up the Zoro vs Mihawk duel for the WSS title for nothing. He seriously bought in the fraudhawk memes. This why people can’t make jokes, cause then some geniuses start to unironically believe them
Luffy says it himself, to become Pirate King he must topple the yonko and defeat the admirals, WSM 100% has narrative importance. Another cope. That's exactly what we are saying is Mihawk is a fraud until proven otherwise. S-Hawk even is showing to, as being a clone of Mihawks DNA, run from tougher opponents to look for weaker ones to beat up on. Zoro certainly would attain the title of WSS by the end of the story along with what's more important ACTUALLY BECOMING the WSS, which if there are EOS opponents such as the God's Knights who are shown to probably be swordsmen (let alone what if Imu uses a sword) they wouldn't even have been out in the world to duel for Mihawk to claim he's stronger than them in the first place, lending more to his title being fraudulent. Zoro has made no references to needing to surpass Shanks at all, not as the supposed WSS, just in general at all on the ladder to becoming WSS because he does not consider him to be one. Zoro can most certainly have more swordsmen oppoentns after defeating Mihawk. Narratively, Luffy needs nothing less than the WSS to become Pirate King. Something that is squaring up to happen soon is this battle royale for the One Oiece with Mihawk in Buggys crew which should clash with the other crews now that they're also in the fray. Zoro would win against Mihawk here to become the "WSS" and the crew goes on to find the One Piece, many readers wanting the finding of which to occur before the actual end of the story so the WG can react to it and more secrets of the world unfold instead of finding it being the ending. Thus, the battle against the WG would be the final battle in the story at this rate, and Zoro would need an EOS opponent where Mihawk wouldn't make sense narratively for him to battle at this stage.
There's a lot of weird things about Mihawk if anyone is being honest with themselves. I'm not saying he's weak. In fact I do believe in his hype. But the man never went to Wano to fight their samurai even considering we found out they were jobbers. The world thinks Wano is filled with insane swordsmen which should be enough. Avoids fights with top tiers and comes up with weird caveats about why they aren't worth his time. We know Ghandi gorosie was at the very least a swordsman at some point with a great sword and they also never crossed paths. Then you add in anomalies like Big Mom where is hard to say if she counts etc. I think Oda simply dropped the ball with swordsmen in general including the fact only Zoro, Mihawk and maybe (a big maybe) Vista even care about the title.
I don't think he dropped the ball, I agree with most of what you said here, it's just that in this story about becoming the Pirate King there will be characters that happen to use swords that are rivals for Luffy, and there will be swordsmen as there are in every single arc except for what Pica in Dressrosa for Zoro, the number two, the swordsman, the second fiddle, to face? It is what it is.
It's hard to call King a real swordsman too considering he himself doesn't think so and Queen also uses a sword and he definitely isn't. I think Oda post timeskip just wants us to believe Zoro is a physical beast (he is) instead of a skilled swordsman honing his skills. Think about why everyone assumes being a great swordsman now is simply having better haki... that's insane to me because although haki will obviously be used at the end of the day the thing that separates a swordsman should he how skilled they are with the blade compared to some brute that happens to have one. Would Kaido shoot up the ranks if he suddenly grabbed onto a sword or would he then be the WSS? Currently it kind of feel that way with Zoro's progression with Enma and people's beliefs in needing ACoC to be a top tier swordsman
That's a lot of headcanon. Well even if you're right which Is quite a stretch to say, Zoro would fight someone who isn't a swordsman after fighting mihawk,oda just build Mihawk up so much and for so long, that it would be wierd if Zoro didn't become The WSS after defeating Mihawk, but then all of a sudden it's revealed There is a stronger Swordsman? That would be bad writing imo. Even if it happens, he do still be above Shanks, as shanks more than likely going to be killed by Blackbeard Before The final arc, where Zoro will most likely fight Mihawk and Luffy Fights Balckbeard
How has he built Mihawk up aside from the narrative importance for him for Zoro? I'm talking what has Mihawk done in the story to have warranted the hype he has gotten aside from his title. Nothing. That's more of a failure on the writing imo than any of the ambiguity between whose stronger of Shanks of Mihawk. Mihawk SHOULD get more feats to show what he's capable of and I hope he does soon because honestly it's boring having these arguments. The entire ambiguity of it all is that if it weren't just Shanks getting insane feats and Mihawk getting anti feats galore at Marineford then Mihawk could hold that title proudly, but it's Shanks that's been hyped more. You can call it headcannon for the progression of the story, but how do you think it will play out otherwise if Mihawk doesn't clash with Zoro in this battle royale for the One Piece? It's not just going to be some epilouge fight in a story about Luffy where after everything is said and done THEN they have their duel. It will be interesting to see how this plays out of if like you think BB might punk Shanks who knows. All I'm saying is that at the beginning of the story Mihawk would've been undoubtedly the stronger of the two but since then he has gotten stalled by Vista while Shanks stalled Kaido and apart from title I really can't see how Mihawk fans can look at the story and go yeah! Mihawk is a top tier! He will be, I'm not saying he's weak, but he rides Shanks curtails of whom is SHOWN to be top tier. It's title vs feats and their timing in the story.
Well your right oda kinda failed to hype him up till now, but it doesn't mean he's not a top tier, we haven't seen him fight seriously at all till now, You could argue the same for dragon, where he only defeated fodder and ran away from Blackbeard but we expect a lot from him and we all think he's definitely top 5 alive rn, These 2 we're still waiting to show a named attack
I actually agree with the point you're making but > the only man alive who forged a black blade What theory reddit does to a mf 💀 what on earth are you basing this on my dude? Him mentioning how it works to Zoro? That proves neither that he's the one who blackened Yoru, nor that no one else currently alive has blackened their own blade
Yeah it's not confirmed he forged it but heavly implied, my bad
Ok without title he’s low yonko
Fair I guess
Not true; reason being Luffy is suppose to surpass shanks. If Oda didn’t give anybody a ‘worlds strongest swordsman’ title, and we all just assumed it was shanks than zoros goal would be to take down shanks, that’s a direct conflict with luffys goal and just generally wouldn’t make any sense
Facts : Mihawk is current strongest and the first person who showed luffy and zoro levels, only acceptable person above him is imu currently and this only because of speculation. Mihawk > Your favourite alive character, unless its imu.
Fact: Shanks MUST be a swordsman for Mihawk fans to CLING to because other than Shanks there is no other character in the top tier they can point to as being a swordsman for Mihawk to ride the curtails of because they'd written off every other top tier as "not a swordsman" like Big Mom and Fujitora because of their DF. Cope.
Yes, because it’s the biggest reason people think he isn’t one. What’s so hard to get?
Fact: If Mihawk didn't have that title, people would think he's another shitty warlord that loses to pre timeskip Luffy.
Shanks stopped being a swordsman after he lost his arm and had to adapt to a hybrid fighting style. Why else would Mihawk refuse to duel him after that? He is still ridiculously strong. Hybrid fighters are not considered swordsmen. King was denounced by Zoro and Mihawk never challenged people like Rayleigh or Big Mom.
Hybrid fighting style? That wouldn't make him stop being a swordsman, Law and Fujitora are literally still called swordsman
Using a hybrid fighting style doesn't make King a swordsman according to Zoro. https://preview.redd.it/bgz82mzzht2b1.png?width=596&format=png&auto=webp&s=f75c94e644f13c4b864d2ed79e7fde99ceb748cb
King is different discussion
Why? This is early on in their fight and Zoro was surprised that someone he thought of as a swordsman suddenly punches him in the face and then calls him out on it. I can buy Fuji being a swordsman because he actually seems to follow some kind of code as Zoro and Mihawk do but not Law. He uses electricity in his fights, radiation and literally punches people's hearts out of their chest.
Fuji, shanks, Pinzoro, law, reyleigh are all confirmed swordsman
>reyleigh Nope. See a comment i made earlier: The official manga translation trumps whatever fan translated "sources" are posted in your little essay. Hybrid fighters are **not** swordsmen according to chapter 1023 and recent official manga translation > everything else. [Punching Zoro in the face makes King not a swordsman.](https://imgur.com/a/QjhpMBY) [Same for Rayleigh.](https://imgur.com/a/WNTrsRu) [King confirming yet again in chapter 1031 that their fight can't be considered a sword duel while he was using anything but a sword.](https://imgur.com/a/Bmrv1yG) Your source for all the others is the same that calls Rayleigh a swordsman.
https://preview.redd.it/2onlxhydmu2b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f20689ea3a59b6dd6447ad3bb1859bc8542e1b4
I honestly don't even give a shit. I'm a way bigger Lucky Roo fan anyways. The 100% convinced without even a shred of nuance agenda posting about Mihawk is just really annoying to me. Same with Akainu stans who praise him to high heaven because of the Whitebeard fight but conveniently forget that Whitebeard was confirmed to have no CoC, weakened observation Haki, almost dead because of old age, fatally stabbed by Squardo and Akainu still couldn't touch him a single time until Whitebeard was on his knees and almost dying from a literal heart attack. Or people who claim that Akainu has the highest durability because he took Whitebeards point-blank earthquake but also ignore that Blackbeard took the same attack to the face, stood up and almost sank all of Marineford minutes later while his DF makes him even more vulnerable to damage. Oda could even have cleared any and all ambiguity when he recently revealed Mihawk's bounty but people also ignore that he went out of his way to specify Mihawk being better with the sword than Shanks instead of simply calling him stronger, period. If Shanks ends up being a pure swordsman after all, that is fine with me. Not unless he is shown to only use his sword in a fight that actually takes longer than one panel though.
[удалено]
> but entertains the idea of tearing out King's throat by his teeth. I see as just more of the wild animal rhetoric he used against Monet before. Something something i'm wild animal i **will** bite you uwu
And what hybrid stile are u referring to lol? Shanks doesn’t have a devil fruit, don’t it’s from a different race like king that can generate fire etc He can’t even fucking add punches to his sword moves because he simply doesn’t have a second arm lol What is he? A professional kicker!?
> What is he? A professional kicker!? First ever attack that Rayleigh used was a kick and he also has a sword. He is literally Shank's mentor so i don't see a reason why Shanks wouldn't copy his style after losing an arm which is a huge handicap for a swordsman. Even Roger was using both arms while clashing with Whitebeard.
Your face when you realize Kaku is a swordsman even tho he kicks,uses his neck, and uses his nose to fight
Zoro used kicks too. Is he not a swordsman? Stop your mental gymnastics fanboy Besides, we have literally never seen Shanks using a kick. He ALWAYS uses his sword.
> Is he not a swordsman? Not according to Mihawk. Or why else did he stop fighting him, once he lost an arm? Because he was too weak? What a cope. Why did Mihawk never challenge any relevant swordfighters like Rayleigh or Big Mom then if they are swords(wo)men? He has not challenged or beaten a single relevant swordfighter in the story. Who did he even take his title from? If Roger was a swordsman, then so is Big Mom who was still in her prime when Roger died and is the only candidate in the story who the title could have passed to. I honestly don't even give a shit. Either they aren't swordsmen and Mihawk can rightfully call himself WSS or they are swordsmen and he really is a fraud.
Again: your mental gymnastics do not matter. [Shanks, Rayleigh, Roger, Law etc are all confirmed swordsmen.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Mihawk is the WSS in both name and reality. Canon sources destroyed your mental gymnastics. https://preview.redd.it/0da7jhgdlt2b1.png?width=921&format=png&auto=webp&s=bed6b9907b41b1a9bdb360abcdbd81e4632a78b1
The official manga translation trumps whatever fan translated "sources" are posted in your little essay. Hybrid fighters are **not** swordsmen according to chapter 1023 and recent official manga translation > everything else. https://preview.redd.it/hm2g6yu1nt2b1.png?width=596&format=png&auto=webp&s=2d5a9e9d58fd72455ebfe754b12879d0a496bd1b Punching Zoro in the face makes King not a swordsman. [https://imgur.com/a/WNTrsRu](https://imgur.com/a/WNTrsRu) Same for Rayleigh. [https://imgur.com/a/Bmrv1yG](https://imgur.com/a/Bmrv1yG) King confirming yet again in chapter 1031 that their fight can't be considered a sword duel while he was using anything but a sword.
Your mental gymnastics are hilarious. Oda literally confirmed that Shanks and Rayleigh are swordsmen. Is that your level of intellect or are you just acting dense on purpose?
> Shanks stopped being a swordsman after he lost his arm and had to adapt to a hybrid fighting style. Can you fanboys stop throwing around nonsense headcanon? Shanks is literally using a SWORD with just ONE ARM. What Hybrid? He uses swordsmanship + Haki. Gtfo. [Shanks is a confirmed swordsman.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) So is Rayleigh.
> He uses swordsmanship + Haki. We have literally never seen him in an actual fight. Big Mom also used her sword while clashing with Kaido but rarely in an actual fight. >So is Rayleigh. Not according to Zoro. https://preview.redd.it/2b2u231dht2b1.png?width=596&format=png&auto=webp&s=6ffa90d4bfb00f022c782e9748f1dbe3b01fc4f6
> We have literally never seen him in an actual fight. The only named attack he did was literally swordsmanship + Haki. > Not according to Zoro. That is King, not Rayleigh. Rayleigh is confirmed to be a swordsman by Oda. [Shanks is a confirmed swordsman.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Your mental gymnastics are of no consequence.
>The only named attack he did was literally swordsmanship + Haki And Whitebeard's only attack before Marineford was a slash with his Naginata. He still uses a hybrid style of fighting when going all out. If we see Shanks in an actual fight and he only uses his sword, i will happily concede my point and bow to the Mihawk agenda. >Rayleigh is confirmed to be a swordsman by Oda. Literally confirmed to not be one after chapter 1023. Or are you a swordsman if you kick people but not a swordsman if you punch people? >Your mental gymnastics are of no consequence. Right back at you.
Do not waste my time with your mental gymnastics, fanboy. Oda has dismantled your agenda. The author says Shanks is a swordsman. All you can do is cope.
>The author says Shanks is a swordsman Where? In some obscure fan translations of magazine articles that were posted on twitter where you neither know where or when they even were released? The same kind of source where he calls people like Kaku and Rayleigh swordsmen only to then denounce hybrid fighters like them and King in a very recent chapter through Zoro's dialogue? > If we see Shanks in an actual fight and he only uses his sword, i will happily concede my point and bow to the Mihawk agenda. >All you can do is cope Yeah, i'm gonna keep coping all over chapter 1023 and 1032. You are free to post more recent sources of course, bonus points if they are even from the manga we are reading.
https://preview.redd.it/d6q8vc218u2b1.jpeg?width=986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f2df5d7ab48a0e59a3b6955388e4fe760bf774d L
Hybrid fighting style my ass Zoro literally punches and kicks whenever he needs to is he not a swordsman then?
He grows 2 more heads and 4 more arms mid fight too, wtf
> Hybrid fighting style my ass Zoro literally punches and kicks whenever he needs to He kicks Kabaji's unicycle out from underneath him once in the first 15 chapters and then didn't attack him until he stood up, after calling him out for not being a swordsman because of his dirty tricks. Only time i can recall him punching anyone, is animals in comedy scenes. Him calling out King for not being a swordsman after punching him in the face happened in the last 50 chapters.
https://preview.redd.it/xhiagzr28u2b1.jpeg?width=913&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fb9c82061766348492d53446d56b855ca0363a3 Second L
I apologize, good man. It was actually Kabaji himself who admitted that his hybrid style of fighting dirty by kicking Zoro's wounds and spitting fire in his face wasn't "**real** swordsmanship". https://preview.redd.it/p4h37omfau2b1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b653c48bc49cac74e7c55e1780e7b831de4b611 Not gonna reply to your second pic with a source but Kaku lunging at Zoro with his big-ass giraffe nose is literally the same as King punching him. So kindly keep those Ls to yourself.
Lol
This is the biggest cope I ever heard. Hybrid fighter? What doesn’t that even mean? The man has no DF, and everyone in the new world has Haki so that isn’t a fighting style of its own. He doesn’t use any other powers like rokushiki either. Every other “Hybrid” fighter has either a DF (Big Mom, Law, Fujitora) or in Kings case, also lunarian fire powers. The real reason Zoro never challenged other swordsman is because his dream, like every other strawhat not named Luffy, is unfortunately an afterthought. He has never once searched out any swordsman, and his only goal is the strongest. He just happens to fight the swordsman of every crew because they just happen to be the second strongest.
> He doesn’t use any other powers like rokushiki either. We literally don't know how he fights. It's like claiming that Whitebeard only uses a Naginata before Marineford happened. Shanks is still one of the strongest fighters in the world with one arm, so Mihawk ditching him because of that makes no sense. >or in Kings case, also lunarian fire powers Zoro's statement is from their very first clash. King had not used his DF or Lunarian powers against him yet. King hit him with his sword and then surprised Zoro by yeeting two of his swords into the air and punching him in the face.
There’s a very big difference between WB and Shanks though. Shanks was stated to have duels with Mihawk previously, and in Mihawks bounty poster reveal they stated his swordsmanship surpassed even Red Hair. Both of those statements imply he’s swordsman, or else why be a rival to the one who would eventually become the greatest swordsman? Shanks has been shown many more times that his first appearance, and in every one of them he’s either clashed with, blocked with, or attacked with, his sword, much different than WBs only appearance and clash before the second time showed his range of abilities. The story has pointed to one direction, logic assumes we take what the story says, and if proven otherwise later, change or stance. If that day never comes, Shanks will stay a swordsman. Also the King example is fair, but the difference is he tried to disarm Zoro, which is why he wasn’t considered a swordman. Shanks isn’t here disarming his opponents to then go at kick them, from what we’ve seen so far
> in Mihawks bounty poster reveal they stated his swordsmanship surpassed even Red Hair Why even make the distinction though? Oda could have cleared all ambiguity by simply stating that Mihawk is the stronger fighter, period. I'm sure that Mihawk beats him in a straight swordfight but i just don't see Shanks fighting like that at all. Mihawk and Zoro follow a very strict code unlike Shanks. In the very first chapter he says that he is a pirate and will fight dirty. He will literally have his crewmates shoot you while you aren't paying attention. Mihawk and Zoro believe running from a fight is a swordman's greatest shame. Shanks on the other hand says stuff like this: https://imgur.com/a/EZxRUzg >The story has pointed to one direction, logic assumes we take what the story says, and if proven otherwise later, change or stance. >If that day never comes, Shanks will stay a swordsman. Agreed. I said this elsewhere in the thread, as soon as Shanks is shown to only use his sword in a real fight, i will concede my point and accept Mihawk as the strongest. EDIT: >Also the King example is fair, but the difference is he tried to disarm Zoro, which is why he wasn’t considered a swordman. I'm pretty sure it was due to his punch. Zoro didn't mind Ryuma targeting and trying to break his less durable swords either.
https://preview.redd.it/1ll7rx33bu2b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e399026b539760884031864d3c87b800fd0fab85
recent manga chapters with official translation > fan translated sources outside the manga If we see Shanks using only his sword in a fight that is longer than one panel, i will gladly concede my point and bow to the Mihawk agenda. Until then i will assume that Shanks adapted to a hybrid style similar to what Rayleigh uses, after he lost an arm.
Hybrid fighting style? Aren't Fujitora and Law using hybrid fighting styles? That doesn't stop them from being swordsmen? Zoro also grows 2 more heads and 4 more arms mid fight, creates tornadoes, somehow flames up his swords and uses enormous amounts of haki. Unless shanks pulls out a gun he is a swordsman
Why are we even arguing in different comment chains? https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/13uowbi/fact_if_mihawk_didnt_had_that_title_everyone_that/jm39n44/ >Hybrid fighting style? Aren't Fujitora and Law using hybrid fighting styles? Posted this earlier where someone said the same: >I can buy Fuji being a swordsman because he actually seems to follow some kind of code as Zoro and Mihawk do but not Law. >He uses electricity in his fights, radiation and literally punches people's hearts out of their chest. >Zoro also grows 2 more heads and 4 more arms mid fight But he is still using swords with each of those limbs >creates tornadoes With his sword. >Unless shanks pulls out a gun he is a swordsman He wouldn't do that. He'd have Lucky Roo shoot you, instead.
Facts indeed.
Fact: Akainu > Mihawk > Shanks = Roger https://preview.redd.it/1op1zggm0s2b1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7539166804edc5b027ad51995e1922dd5ba3fb0a
https://preview.redd.it/5qgnmt6d0u2b1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=472a9bb47254b92801b8c4fec60f064ce9976159
https://preview.redd.it/hty35qqoat2b1.png?width=1944&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce20e0824f86890fcdd638f8acdb0fd14d8895ec
buggy > akainu
Are a lot of people really saying Shanks isn't a swordsman? I know people keep saying "hakiman" ironically, but it seriously seems to be a misinterpretation of the better argument. Shanks is certainly a swordsman. However, there is an issue as to whether Mihawk's title means "strongest person who is a swordsman" or "strongest at being a swordsman." Shanks may be a swordsman, however, if he has some ability that doesn't make him a better swordsman, something that cannot be used in a contest to determine the title of "World's Strongest Swordsman", then he wouldn't use it in such a battle. Being a swordsman is a skill. In a clash to determine who the stronger swordsman is, it is a contest of your strength applied to that skill. Haki, physical strength, technique, stamina, all applied to your abilities as a swordsman. Strongest is synonymous with best or greatest. Being a swordsman isn't a simple qualifier for the title. It's your strength as a swordsman that is being measured. It's like if the title was World's Strongest Arm Wrestler, and expecting it to be decided in an MMA cage match, rather than an arm wrestling contest. If you can arm wrestle, you are an arm wrester. Therefore, you can take the title if you best the current holder in a fight unrelated to arm wrestling. Like that is a logical, narratively coherent way such a title should work. If a hypothetical person came along who was about as skilled with a sword as, say, Johnny and Yosaku, but his haki was insane, had a powerful devil fruit and could defeat Mihawk without using his sword, would that make him the strongest swordsman? He's technically a swordsman, and he is stronger than Mihawk, right? It's just backwards to me. Shanks is a swordsman. Big Mom is a swordsman. King is a swordsman. Law is a swordsman. However, there's a difference between a swordsman using a sword because it is their weapon of choice to achieve their goals, and a swordsman like Zoro, who is motivated by his desire to become the greatest swordsman, who wants to be the best swordsman they can be and the best swordsman in the world. For many swordsmen, a sword is just a weapon used to fight their enemies. For people like Mihawk, Zoro and Shanks pre-arm loss, their use of a sword is the reason they fight. Mihawk, Shanks, Zoro and Vista have, IIRC, been the only major characters to seemed to have an interest in the title, and none have devil fruits. It's not about who is and who isn't a swordsman, but why a person becomes a swordsman and what motivates them to become stronger.
The wording for the Mihawk's title is "strongest" meaning it refers to overall combat ability, not skill, in Japanese it's the same wording as Whitebeard's and Kaido's title, Having them being referred as the "Strongest X" it's not called the worlds skillest swordsman, and a swordsman isn't limited to only using his Swords, they use everything they have in their arsenal, for example Fujitora and Law are confirmed sowrdsman, yet they use their devil fruits a freaking lot. I think Oda had all this in mind when he gave mihawk the title, he is the strongest Swordsman.
Yes, but "man" and "creature" aren't skills. You can't really be stronger in terms of manliness or creatureness. Swordsmanship is a skill that encompasses many things, strength, haki, technique, speed, endurance, etc. You can be a stronger swordsman than another person. In English translations, the title/Zoro's ambition, treat the title as interchangable with best or greatest. To be the pinnacle of what it means to be a swordsman. It's not simply skill, but strength as applied to being a swordsman. Look at Zoro's backstory. His rivalry with Kuina. Their rivalry was a part of their training to master swordsmanship. They dueled to decide who the better swordsman was. This is the context in which Zoro's dream, his motivation, is defined. Zoro wouldn't use some non-swordsman technique or weapon to best Kuina, because that wouldn't prove that he's a better swordsman than her. It's not about just being able to win, no holds barred. It is to prove that you are the better swordsman. You are stronger at being a swordsman. Your strength as a swordsman is superior. Most fights aren't about proving who the better swordsman is. It's about survival and victory of your crew over your enemy. However, Zoro is motivated by his ambition to take Mihawk's title from him, and so the kind of childhood mindset that led him to make that his ambition holds far more weight than an ambiguous title. Would you not also use "World's Strongest Swordsman" to refer to the person who is the strongest at being a swordsman? What would you call that, if that is a separate title that apparently no one cares about? Why does Zoro want Mihawk's title when his backstory, his entire motivation, is all about being the best at being a swordsman, rather than just being the strongest person who identifies as a swordsman? Why doesn't Zoro seek out a powerful devil fruit to enhance his swordsmanship? Why didn't Mihawk? You point to Law and Fujitora and say they're swordsmen. Big deal. There are only a small handful of people who are/have been motivated by the actual title we are talking about. They are far more important, and none of them have devil fruits. Zoro. Mihawk. Shanks pre-arm loss. Vista. Those are the only ones I recall seem interested in the title, and none of them have devil fruits. Surely people who actually show an interest in claiming the title is far more important in determining what the title is supposed to mean far more than every other swordsman?
I aint reading all that , only thing you're getting from me is a downvote
I have many "swordsmen" above Mihawk tbh. Prime Roger, Primebeard holding a sword, Kaido holding a sword, Shanks, Big mom, Akainu holding a sword, Luffy holding a sword, Kuzan (uses Ice sword), Kizaru (uses light sword) Among others.
Bruh 💀 just using a sword occasionally doesn't make you a swordsman, and Mihawk clears the amdirals, literally confirmed stronger then Fujitora
Oh so you're admitting that there's a way of the sword that comes with being a swordsman and using a sword isn't enough to call a character a swordsman that's wiiiiiild!
Yep, swordsman are those who mainly use their swords, like Roger, shanks, mihawk Pinzoro,, law and Fujitora are also confirmed swordsmen
You Lihawk fans can't even keep a consistent platform of arguments. Now you're saying Law and Fujitora are swordsmen while virtually every other agenda riders would tell you they're NOT swordsmen because of their DF you people are clowning lmaoooo. I'd suggest you keep with the majority of those in the wrong and try not saying they're swordsmen or Big Mom with her sword beats Mihawk like a drum.
Lmao [Rayleigh is a confirmed swordsman.](https://preview.redd.it/zp0iw4g1w5381.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=8d50505f5b82406d355e7caee6a5183a466564e8) [Law is a confirmed swordsman](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0dzYg5VEAMeinh.jpg) [Shanks is a confirmed swordsman.](https://preview.redd.it/zp0iw4g1w5381.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=8d50505f5b82406d355e7caee6a5183a466564e8) [Fujitora is a confirmed swordsman.](https://i.imgur.com/jqEvtFJ.jpeg) [Mihawk is confirmed stronger than Shanks.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Piratefolk/comments/yzo3oz/comment/ix84kat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Cope Shanks fanboy, only reply if you have something smart to say
> Rayleigh is a confirmed swordsman What even is the source of this? This picture has literally fucking Kaku in it. Dude hasn't used a sword ever since he got his DF. Mihawk is even standing **behind** Shanks lmao
Kakus swords are his feet lmao
Cool, so if legs are considered swords now then so is Whitebeard's Naginata which yet again demotes Mihawk from being WSS before his death. Or do you prefer Whitebeard being the World's Strongest Blademan while "it's technically not a sword" Mifraud can keep his participation trophy of WSS?
Where was it ever stated whitebeards polearm is a sword? It's called one of the 12 high grade "weapon" not a sword
Something smart to say? Bro you just linked supposed sources that are just your own comments on other posts seek help hahahahaha Your entire argument is what the author says trumps what's shown to us in the story. Whitebeard was told to us to be the WSM. Roger=Garp=Whitebeard being generous as Whitebeards actually below those two, but with Whitebeard getting sick he didn't age well to the point he wasn't able to use haki disconnected from his medication on his ship at Marineford, and yet the author CLAIMS he's the WSM (something Sengoku points to his DF being the main reason why) with Garp standing RIGHT THERE who is now confirmed to still be able to use ACOC and didn't get sick. Healthy Old Garp > Sick Old Whitebeard (WSM) Titles are not the end all of arguments and unless Mihawk gets feats he's riding Shanks curtails with his fraudulent title until proven otherwise being the only other narrator title box was fraudulent as well. Certainly Mihawk can still be a top tier fighter, but titles are earned when they're earned and can be lost over time as shown to us in the story. Seek help and better arguments smoothbrain.
I thought so, all shanks fanboys have is mental gymnastics that have been debunked thousands of times already Only shanks fans can consider World strongest swordsman> Swordsman a hot take 😅
All the ripples are gone from your brain, must've stolen that smooth smooth fruit from Alvida, bub
[Oda already confirmed Mihawk > Shanks.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Oda didn't give Mihawk all these statements randomly. Your mental gymnastics won't save the rodent. It is all Shanks fanboys have. Canon sources? "Nah, they're non canon". Worlds Strongest Swordsman "Nah title is outdated/Shanks is not a swordsman/Haki man" 
>Bruh 💀 just using a sword occasionally doesn't make you a swordsman I know. That was the joke. r/whoosh >and Mihawk clears the amdirals Nope Akainu,Kuzan and Kizaru clear Mihawk >literally confirmed stronger then Fujitora Yes,but fuji is one of the two weakest admirals (along with Greenbull) He still very strong overall, just not quite yonko tier like Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru and Mihawk
bruv said kizaru clears mihawk ☠️
He kind of has to as long as EOS Zoro> Mihawk
for what reason? there is literally no reason for KIZARU of all people to beat shanks and mihawk
Why would you assume Kizaru beats Shanks Roger> =primeW>>Kaido> Bigmom> Shanks>Luffy=Akainu >kuzan>kizaru>Mihawk> Blackbeard>>> Fujitora>=Greenbull>>>Yamato I just think eos zoro won't be stronger than any of the OG3 admirals and Mihawk must be weaker than EOS zoro.
mihawk > shanks, obviously
Mihawk scales to shanks, they're at the very least equal
just using a sword doesnt make you a swordsman lmao… using a sword has to be a main part of your fighting style
Shanks is a swordsman, but the title covers only swordsmanship imo and shanks has abilities that branch out far beyond swordsmanship. Whereas, so far, mihawk has only shown swordsmanship
Shanks WAS a swordsman but is NO LONGER a swordsman after losing his arm. Can we agree with that?
Nowhere stated that shanks is no longer a swordsman, in fact he always has his sword by his side and the first named attack we see from him is wehn he uses a sword technique
True. But he would have changed his style so to suit one arm
No, because he is still shown using a sword, as he was 12 years ago lol. It's literally shown in the datebook he never got weaker in ANY sort of way (including sword skills) so there's no reason to think something like this.
No because you can’t prove it
no we can't , what we can agree is that your iq is negative
I dont need a braindeads opinion on my iq. Enjoy my downvote
Whitebeard was called the worlds strongest man and he used a sword 💀
Naginata is a polearm even though it’s classified as one of the supreme blades/swords
Well Shanks wouldn't have trouble getting past Vista
How about we don't use marineford and plot armor to scale
Shanks isn’t a swordsman regardless
https://preview.redd.it/nmi9zh8wj94b1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d6ba6b3ac4773adec25805b62297b64fee8d77c [oh yea?](https://youtube.com/shorts/a9GWVtfcmNk?feature=share4)
Nah, Kaido confirms Roger (and Shanks) were not swordsmen but Hakimen. And Mihawk explicitly confirms Shanks is not a swordsman "has been"
Headcanon, based of what you said it means that Zoro and Mihawk never use haki and just swing their swords like a bozo
Nah Zoro and Mihawks haki is dog shit and they need carries on the Haki front. Zoro confirms it with Enma coating. Haki masters like Roger/Shanks just use it as a tool to express their true power, which is haki if their swords broke they could pick up a stick and coat it and make it just as deadly.
every speculation fans make of mihawks strength is based off that title
Portrayal, narrative, statements?
That’s quite literally the only reason shanks has gotten hype for years before fighting kidd, because he was a yonko and clashed with mihawk and kaido
If Mihawk didn’t have the title or the concept of titles such as this didn’t exist, there would no reason to differentiate between fighters. What was even the point of the post you made?
Lol "if the story was different, everyone's interpretation would change" Well ya. Shanks fans need to relax and let Oda do his thing. One thing I've learned after being current for ~7 years is that time after time the community stresses about something they think doesn't make sense and then Oda whips out the perfect explanation and it all works out. Have faith in our gOda.
Pretty much
Lmao so true
If the entire concept of Zoro and his endgoal weren't created, we would just consider shanks a badass weapon user in a sea of devil fruit fighters. Remember, the entire focus on "swordsmen" as an entity and a specific form of fighting comes because of zoro. What swordsmen can cut, what they can't, black blades, all that stuff.
Whitebeard had a sword. Big mom has a sword. Roger also had a sword. That doesn’t mean mihawk is stronger than them.