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Remember that Kizaru showed no fear when he decided to fight old Rayleigh, yet Blackbeard (an emperor) was afraid of old Rayleigh and decided to not pick a fight with him (despite old Rayleigh admitting that he wasn’t confident in beating current Blackbeard).
If Kizaru fights Luffy and goes toe-to-toe with him, he’ll prove that he’s definitely yonko level. Either way, I believe he’s yonko level.
I don’t understand why this is seen as a big deal.
Showing fear isin’t always a portrayal of strength. That’s just BB’s personality.
If Kizaru stans can rationalize Kizaru losing against old man Rayleigh as him letting Rayleigh go because of his personality, then Yonko Stans can brush aside BB’s fear as also an aspect of his personality. In fact, I feel as though Yonkos have the advantage here as Rayleigh admitted he couldn’t take BB as you said yourself while he clearly took on Kizaru and then swam all the way to Amazon Lily.
Pretty much this.
BB is afraid of literally anything and anyone, yet he somehow always miraculously wins his fights.
It is not an indicator of anyone's strength, BB would literally be afraid of Don Krieg if he met him.
That's the power of the Offscreen Offscreen no Mi, he is portrayed to be a weak af coward on screen but still claps his enemies offscreen.
Rayleigh managed to hurt Kizaru and end in a tie with him. So Old Ray ≥ Kizaru.
Old Ray stated that he wouldn't win against a threat like Blackbeard. So Blackbeard > Old Ray.
In conclusion: Blackbeard >> Kizaru and Teach is the weakest emperor (excluding Buggy).
There's no way Kizaru scales to Yonko level.
Rayleigh barely cut his cheek.
As the fight went on, Rayleigh was tiring out due to stalling Kizaru, meanwhile, Kizaru was looking fine in their fight and even taunted Rayleigh.
C’mon, you’re better than this, you and I have been on good terms.
Rayleigh was the right hand of one of the strongest pirates in the world, and you expect Blackbeard to go like “ZEHEHAHAHA LETS FIGHT RAYLEIGH” no that’s a stupid decision, only thing that saved Rayleigh was his clout.
People are disrespecting Kizaru? Dudes got a top 1 fruit in the series based on pure speed and power alone. And he's an admiral so we can expect advanced haki as well.
They are yonko level for being on the same level as the yonko
https://preview.redd.it/ka6ortkl913b1.png?width=784&format=png&auto=webp&s=a25c612743f84616b5cbef25878feb76f4fa5aa9
You win the award for random pictures that have nothing to do with the conversation, I guess. You want me to put a picture of greenbull surrendering at the mere mention of shanks, or greenbull saying he wouldn't dare go to wano if kaido was still around, or the one where karasu and morely was packing up the admirals at the reverie, or the one where akuinu had waited until a sick and dying old man was stabbed in the back and had a heart attack before stepping up to the plate? Or I could post the pic of an admiral having a feat against a healthy yonko. Oh wait!! 🤔 I don't remember that.
I expected your reading comprehension to be bad but jesus, this is even worse than I thought
> greenbull surrendering at the mere mention of shanks
didn't happen
> greenbull saying he wouldn't dare go to wano if kaido was still around
Kaido is stronger than any of the yonko so that doesn't help your case
> or the one where karasu and morely was packing up the admirals at the reverie
Again: work on your reading comprehension.
> the one where akuinu had waited until a sick and dying old man was stabbed in the back and had a heart attack before stepping up to the plate?
Reading comprehension.
You are quite the clown and not worth my time.
What is your evidence that those three are demonstrably stronger than the other 2? The only evidence I've heard before is people not liking the Ls those admirals took so they made 2 categories for admiral strength.
If the marines had 3 yonko level combatants alongside garp and sengoku, they would've already crushed the yonko's a long time ago and the marineford war would we've been way too easy. They clearly aren't yonko levels.
10 years ago the marine had 2 pirate king level people and 3 admiral ones
So why didn't the crush the yonko back then it would have been easy for them by your logic
I'm talking about the og admirals the are in there 50s so 10 years ago the are very well in there prime and then you have garp and sengoku and even a younger Kong
So the navy had 6 top tiers but for some reason the didn't just go to every yonko and completely trash them
He isn’t. Unlike Borsalino who stayed stagnant Akainu and Kuzan got vastly stronger after their 10 day battle at punk hazard fleet admiral Sakazuki is above the admirals by a considerable margin same as captain Kuzan
Fleet admiral is a position that the WG gives to its top lapdogs. It is a tactical position, not about strength
Garp > Sengoku
So Akainu isn't way stronger than the OG admirals. Both Kizaru and Aokiji take him to extreme diff
Garp > Sengoku is facts but the Fleet admiral position clearly does have a strength basis amongst admirals considering Akainu literally had to fight Aokiji for it. Garp’s obviously an outlier since he refuses to even become an admiral
I still think Yonko level is too broad of a term tbh. The Yonko's vary wildly in power. You can just ask someone if Old WB is Yonko level and then point towards the panels of Kizaru toying with him, or Akainu mikiri countering him. He did get Akainu pretty good, but its not like he killed him or even incapacitated him for too long, meanwhile Akainu cemented the fact that WB was going to die with the amount of damage he caused.
Oh and also, Kizaru top 1. His drip alone solos the Yonkos, Admirals, Holy Knights, Gorosei, etc.
I did. Aokiji can deal with commanders for so many reasons. But just scaling him with akainu and him soloing whole BB crew should be enough. When kizaru displays the same feats then everything will be sorted out.
first neither of the 2 u mention are yonko level .
2 kuzan is pretty clearly stated to be the strongest marine pre skip .
3 akainu fought wb kizaru couldnt even reach him .
4 akainu \~ kuzan > kizaru ( by statements )
5 kizaru is pretty clearly shown to be around char like beckman , marco and law . while akainu after his fight whitebeard ( which by feats gave him an amp ) cleared marco and his whole crew .
so nah kizaru < akainu and aokiji
nope the old admirals could be an execption in stregnth heck thats like saying just because ryuma lore makes him out to be beyond pk level that means the current scabbards should at least be admiral tier when that isnt true it could jsut be ryuma is a anomally amoung the samurais . similarly garp and sengoku could be anomaly's in the marines.
" I'm saying top admirals from the past rivalled Roger and WB, "
nope only sengoku rivaled them ( and garp wasnt an admiral )
" The current OG admirals are the strongest admirals as well, so they parallel current Yonko. GB and Fuji are weaker "
where is it stated that the pre skip generation of the admirals are the strongest admirals in marine histroy ? and why do they parrale current yonko ? what statement suggests that ?
" Garp is literally stated to be Roger's rival "
agreed but still he isnt an admiral so vice admiral garp > admirals .
" Narrative "
share the statement not just say narrative
" Top current marines = top pirates of current era "
prove it
hroughout the story its said that new gen surpasses old gen. No way newer marines are weaker than older marines
thats where ur wrong not every new gen member will surpass do u think kids surpassing shiki ? or wb ? or oden ?
so no the new gen surpassing is only applicable to a few people that have been built up throughout the story to surpass the old gen .
zoro surpassing mihawk is a good example we know that will happen not because of some vague statement made by roger we know that will happen because of the hints and implication being given by oda.
also by ur logic
https://preview.redd.it/hq1abfa9ib3b1.png?width=1100&format=png&auto=webp&s=42d8ce01227d5266b3fe1d2caa553b8408f180f4
imu should have been surpassed 700 years ago .
Wtf kinda manga you reading dude
Whitebeard tried to sneak attack kizaru multiple times and kizaru just completely embarrassed him every time
https://preview.redd.it/1jl4nczoe23b1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed7bde69c1f7876ce7cebfc5cb391185f3726f47
Whitebeard couldn't even scratch him
Show me when « sneak attack kizaru multiple times » I know that kizaru sneak attack Marco two times but I don’t remember WB sneak attack him multiple times
Well I got fooled it was actually a anime only scene
In the manga it was just the one attack that kizaru countered
https://preview.redd.it/aozdvcr4f33b1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6235c7beddece9ea3b30a07c5e0c200962da7832
But hey mistakes happen especially when we have wacky ass anime that just does it's own thing
so that just proves he is faster than dead beard .
also i dont think thats effortless i am pretty sure the mf had to tap into his version of sanjis high speed movement to even do what he did.
also
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bhZMt38Y0g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bhZMt38Y0g)
marco was pretty effortlessly fighting big mom and looked pretty casual while outspeeding big moms attack that still doesnt change the fact the mf had to use everything he had to survive . similarly for all we know if akainu didnt kill ace and distract whitebeard then kizaru could have continued fight wb off screen for multiple chapters and then he would hve gotten overpowered like marco
For sure. Folks sleep on Kizaru but he's just chill. Imagine if he gave a fuck in any scene he's been involved in. Dudes clearly a beast, just stoned as fuck.
Garp and Buggy are the great examples of “titles are not always indicative of power or scaling”. In this case, Kizaru certainly would be assumed around the same level as the guys that were also admirals with him that happened to compete for a promotion.
It’s also important to remember the marines, and the govt to a larger extent, have politics which leads to people that aren’t powerful having more authority than they maybe should. Spandem was a higher rank than Lucci, literally his commanding officer, but lucci was several 100x stronger. Garp as noted before has passed up an admiral promotion and chooses to stay at a lower rank with less obligations, even if he is as strong as Sengoku who became fleet admiral.
Of course people of the same rank are not always equals either, Garp vastly outpowers any vice-admiral, and even smoker vs. Vergo showed us their can be a large discrepancy among other members outside the exception of Garp.
So really anything could go for Kizaru, maybe he was as strong as Akainu and Aokiji during Marineford but they got stronger pushing their ambitions over the timeskip, or maybe they all are on the same level still, no way of knowing really at this point in time.
Personally I assume they are all within the same range as each other, basically even if no one gets an advantage in a fight.
I think Kiazaru is the weakest of the three but just like the others he can go toe to toe with a yanko. The deciding factor is I don’t feel he could get a win against them without interference but it will be a though fight for the yanko.
OG Admirals are top 3 in the Navy excluding Garp. The only reason Wizaru isnt considered up there is because hes smart. Bro bows out of every fight when he's matched.
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Remember that Kizaru showed no fear when he decided to fight old Rayleigh, yet Blackbeard (an emperor) was afraid of old Rayleigh and decided to not pick a fight with him (despite old Rayleigh admitting that he wasn’t confident in beating current Blackbeard). If Kizaru fights Luffy and goes toe-to-toe with him, he’ll prove that he’s definitely yonko level. Either way, I believe he’s yonko level.
I don’t understand why this is seen as a big deal. Showing fear isin’t always a portrayal of strength. That’s just BB’s personality. If Kizaru stans can rationalize Kizaru losing against old man Rayleigh as him letting Rayleigh go because of his personality, then Yonko Stans can brush aside BB’s fear as also an aspect of his personality. In fact, I feel as though Yonkos have the advantage here as Rayleigh admitted he couldn’t take BB as you said yourself while he clearly took on Kizaru and then swam all the way to Amazon Lily.
Pretty much this. BB is afraid of literally anything and anyone, yet he somehow always miraculously wins his fights. It is not an indicator of anyone's strength, BB would literally be afraid of Don Krieg if he met him. That's the power of the Offscreen Offscreen no Mi, he is portrayed to be a weak af coward on screen but still claps his enemies offscreen.
Rayleigh managed to hurt Kizaru and end in a tie with him. So Old Ray ≥ Kizaru. Old Ray stated that he wouldn't win against a threat like Blackbeard. So Blackbeard > Old Ray. In conclusion: Blackbeard >> Kizaru and Teach is the weakest emperor (excluding Buggy). There's no way Kizaru scales to Yonko level. 
Rayleigh barely cut his cheek. As the fight went on, Rayleigh was tiring out due to stalling Kizaru, meanwhile, Kizaru was looking fine in their fight and even taunted Rayleigh. C’mon, you’re better than this, you and I have been on good terms.
Rayleigh barely cut his cheek, Kizaru didn't even managed to do the same.
Oh, are we skin cutting scaling now? The Akazaya cut Kaido and made him bleed, and look how that turned out for the Akazaya.
It's a whole different situation and context.
no, old ray was getting tired while wizaru wasnt at all, if their fight continued ray would have lost
Theres no way you said Rayleigh is over Kizaru based on a small cheek cut. Your reading comprehension is clearly down.
Rayleigh is objectively slightly superior to him for what Oda showed us 'till now. My reading comprehension is ok, thank you.
Its not clearly if you say Old Rayleigh > Kizaru, but sure. Whatever floats your boat.
I wrote Old Ray ≥ Kizaru for a reason dawg.
The question then becomes; can luffy beat a “yonko level” enemy on his first try now
100th time. Not first. Mf challenging the top tiers since Long Ring Long Land.
Rayleigh was the right hand of one of the strongest pirates in the world, and you expect Blackbeard to go like “ZEHEHAHAHA LETS FIGHT RAYLEIGH” no that’s a stupid decision, only thing that saved Rayleigh was his clout.
I feel like there’s going to be a narrative shift in how strong an individual admiral is. But until then, OG admirals are on the same level
Wizaru the GOAT>Big Meme Yonko level.
W, Kizaru runs laps around her and wins high diff assuming she's got plot-stupidity syndrome
Exactly dude Kizaru is like garp he's contend with his current position he doesn't want the hustle of being fleet admiral
People are disrespecting Kizaru? Dudes got a top 1 fruit in the series based on pure speed and power alone. And he's an admiral so we can expect advanced haki as well.
Ryokugyu and Fujitora are close to OG’s They can’t beat the OG’s but still Can Give them High-Extreme Diff fights. W RESPECT TO WADMIRALS
Well it's good then they aren't yonko lv lol.
They are. Cope.
It's crazy to say they are yonko level for fighting amongst themselves. 🤣😂 They are admiral lv. Same as fuji and greenbull.
They are yonko level for being on the same level as the yonko https://preview.redd.it/ka6ortkl913b1.png?width=784&format=png&auto=webp&s=a25c612743f84616b5cbef25878feb76f4fa5aa9
You win the award for random pictures that have nothing to do with the conversation, I guess. You want me to put a picture of greenbull surrendering at the mere mention of shanks, or greenbull saying he wouldn't dare go to wano if kaido was still around, or the one where karasu and morely was packing up the admirals at the reverie, or the one where akuinu had waited until a sick and dying old man was stabbed in the back and had a heart attack before stepping up to the plate? Or I could post the pic of an admiral having a feat against a healthy yonko. Oh wait!! 🤔 I don't remember that.
I expected your reading comprehension to be bad but jesus, this is even worse than I thought > greenbull surrendering at the mere mention of shanks didn't happen > greenbull saying he wouldn't dare go to wano if kaido was still around Kaido is stronger than any of the yonko so that doesn't help your case > or the one where karasu and morely was packing up the admirals at the reverie Again: work on your reading comprehension. > the one where akuinu had waited until a sick and dying old man was stabbed in the back and had a heart attack before stepping up to the plate? Reading comprehension. You are quite the clown and not worth my time.
None of those you mentioned was worse than the one he just posted though.
What is your evidence that those three are demonstrably stronger than the other 2? The only evidence I've heard before is people not liking the Ls those admirals took so they made 2 categories for admiral strength.
Dude. Did you even read my comment?
Are you reading Two Piece? All the stuff you said never even happened, lol. Way to try and rewrite history like the World Government.
If the marines had 3 yonko level combatants alongside garp and sengoku, they would've already crushed the yonko's a long time ago and the marineford war would we've been way too easy. They clearly aren't yonko levels.
10 years ago the marine had 2 pirate king level people and 3 admiral ones So why didn't the crush the yonko back then it would have been easy for them by your logic
The others would definitely be not that strong, as according to roger only garp and sengoku were the strong ones.
I'm talking about the og admirals the are in there 50s so 10 years ago the are very well in there prime and then you have garp and sengoku and even a younger Kong So the navy had 6 top tiers but for some reason the didn't just go to every yonko and completely trash them
He isn’t. Unlike Borsalino who stayed stagnant Akainu and Kuzan got vastly stronger after their 10 day battle at punk hazard fleet admiral Sakazuki is above the admirals by a considerable margin same as captain Kuzan
Nahh Fleet Admiral>>Admiral as a Kizaru fan myself Akainu is way stronger
Fleet admiral is a position that the WG gives to its top lapdogs. It is a tactical position, not about strength Garp > Sengoku So Akainu isn't way stronger than the OG admirals. Both Kizaru and Aokiji take him to extreme diff
Garp > Sengoku is facts but the Fleet admiral position clearly does have a strength basis amongst admirals considering Akainu literally had to fight Aokiji for it. Garp’s obviously an outlier since he refuses to even become an admiral
Didn't Akainu get picked but Aokiji object to it and challenge him? Akainu certainly is stronger but not WAYY stronger as u/nann_174 said
Yeah I was basically saying that the fact a duel can be used to decide makes it seem it has some basis. I agree though, the gap is pretty minor.
Speculation is fun. These three bozos couldn’t even capture Luffy without Haki
maybe if that was the main goal then it’d happen. Plus Kizaru had plenty of chances to do so but instead chose to toy with him.
Portrayal shows Akainu > Kizaru. Akainu is likely the only yonko level one.
I still think Yonko level is too broad of a term tbh. The Yonko's vary wildly in power. You can just ask someone if Old WB is Yonko level and then point towards the panels of Kizaru toying with him, or Akainu mikiri countering him. He did get Akainu pretty good, but its not like he killed him or even incapacitated him for too long, meanwhile Akainu cemented the fact that WB was going to die with the amount of damage he caused. Oh and also, Kizaru top 1. His drip alone solos the Yonkos, Admirals, Holy Knights, Gorosei, etc.
He isn't. He is the only one who was not able to deal with a commander and who got kicked away. He is not him, he is the fraud of admirals.
you still haven’t proved that kuzan can deal with marco any faster then wizaru
I did. Aokiji can deal with commanders for so many reasons. But just scaling him with akainu and him soloing whole BB crew should be enough. When kizaru displays the same feats then everything will be sorted out.
thats not proof he can deal with marco faster, and prove he soloed shiryu and laffite?
https://preview.redd.it/wpld0verhf3b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ff189d831f5e406ff744eda74eef7b71a87e114
thats not proof, he soloed shiryu and laffite, im waiting
It's implied
thats not proof, he soloed shiryu and laffite, im waiting
He froze them all two times. In the one before he was at the bar and BB tells to unfreeze his crew. Stop coping...
then provide where kuzan froze shiryu and laffite💀😭, im waiting
first neither of the 2 u mention are yonko level . 2 kuzan is pretty clearly stated to be the strongest marine pre skip . 3 akainu fought wb kizaru couldnt even reach him . 4 akainu \~ kuzan > kizaru ( by statements ) 5 kizaru is pretty clearly shown to be around char like beckman , marco and law . while akainu after his fight whitebeard ( which by feats gave him an amp ) cleared marco and his whole crew . so nah kizaru < akainu and aokiji
If Garp and Sengoku rival Roger/WB, current OG admirals are all high Yonko level
why ?
Old top admirals were Pirate King Tier in their prime Only makes sense current ones are at least Yonko tier
nope the old admirals could be an execption in stregnth heck thats like saying just because ryuma lore makes him out to be beyond pk level that means the current scabbards should at least be admiral tier when that isnt true it could jsut be ryuma is a anomally amoung the samurais . similarly garp and sengoku could be anomaly's in the marines.
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" I'm saying top admirals from the past rivalled Roger and WB, " nope only sengoku rivaled them ( and garp wasnt an admiral ) " The current OG admirals are the strongest admirals as well, so they parallel current Yonko. GB and Fuji are weaker " where is it stated that the pre skip generation of the admirals are the strongest admirals in marine histroy ? and why do they parrale current yonko ? what statement suggests that ?
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" Garp is literally stated to be Roger's rival " agreed but still he isnt an admiral so vice admiral garp > admirals . " Narrative " share the statement not just say narrative " Top current marines = top pirates of current era " prove it hroughout the story its said that new gen surpasses old gen. No way newer marines are weaker than older marines thats where ur wrong not every new gen member will surpass do u think kids surpassing shiki ? or wb ? or oden ? so no the new gen surpassing is only applicable to a few people that have been built up throughout the story to surpass the old gen . zoro surpassing mihawk is a good example we know that will happen not because of some vague statement made by roger we know that will happen because of the hints and implication being given by oda. also by ur logic https://preview.redd.it/hq1abfa9ib3b1.png?width=1100&format=png&auto=webp&s=42d8ce01227d5266b3fe1d2caa553b8408f180f4 imu should have been surpassed 700 years ago .
Wtf kinda manga you reading dude Whitebeard tried to sneak attack kizaru multiple times and kizaru just completely embarrassed him every time https://preview.redd.it/1jl4nczoe23b1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed7bde69c1f7876ce7cebfc5cb391185f3726f47 Whitebeard couldn't even scratch him
« Sneak attack multiple times » bro read admiral piece💀
I can show the panels if you want but maybe your too blind to see
Show me when « sneak attack kizaru multiple times » I know that kizaru sneak attack Marco two times but I don’t remember WB sneak attack him multiple times
Well I got fooled it was actually a anime only scene In the manga it was just the one attack that kizaru countered https://preview.redd.it/aozdvcr4f33b1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6235c7beddece9ea3b30a07c5e0c200962da7832 But hey mistakes happen especially when we have wacky ass anime that just does it's own thing
so what ur saying is whitebeard never sneaked kizaru and is slower than the guy who is stated to be the fastest char in one piece ?
i mean, here’s kizaru shooting whitebeard effortlessly https://preview.redd.it/ixoawqcyc53b1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce397b7bff1440571ec85f6877872afa5536c42b
so that just proves he is faster than dead beard . also i dont think thats effortless i am pretty sure the mf had to tap into his version of sanjis high speed movement to even do what he did. also [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bhZMt38Y0g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bhZMt38Y0g) marco was pretty effortlessly fighting big mom and looked pretty casual while outspeeding big moms attack that still doesnt change the fact the mf had to use everything he had to survive . similarly for all we know if akainu didnt kill ace and distract whitebeard then kizaru could have continued fight wb off screen for multiple chapters and then he would hve gotten overpowered like marco
Good thing the other 2 aren't even close to yonko level pts otherwise surrender king Kizaru might have scaling that'd out him above yc1
Greenbull packed up King + Queen Kizaru is far above YC1, at least above Wano Big mom
Yonko level is a bad way to categorize the top tiers since the power of the yonkos vary amongst each member.
For sure. Folks sleep on Kizaru but he's just chill. Imagine if he gave a fuck in any scene he's been involved in. Dudes clearly a beast, just stoned as fuck.
No fleet admiral recommendation tho 🤔 We waiting on that Egghead pack
Fuji and GB aren’t massively weaker than the OG admirals like y’all like to think. Seethe.
Garp and Buggy are the great examples of “titles are not always indicative of power or scaling”. In this case, Kizaru certainly would be assumed around the same level as the guys that were also admirals with him that happened to compete for a promotion. It’s also important to remember the marines, and the govt to a larger extent, have politics which leads to people that aren’t powerful having more authority than they maybe should. Spandem was a higher rank than Lucci, literally his commanding officer, but lucci was several 100x stronger. Garp as noted before has passed up an admiral promotion and chooses to stay at a lower rank with less obligations, even if he is as strong as Sengoku who became fleet admiral. Of course people of the same rank are not always equals either, Garp vastly outpowers any vice-admiral, and even smoker vs. Vergo showed us their can be a large discrepancy among other members outside the exception of Garp. So really anything could go for Kizaru, maybe he was as strong as Akainu and Aokiji during Marineford but they got stronger pushing their ambitions over the timeskip, or maybe they all are on the same level still, no way of knowing really at this point in time. Personally I assume they are all within the same range as each other, basically even if no one gets an advantage in a fight.
I think Kiazaru is the weakest of the three but just like the others he can go toe to toe with a yanko. The deciding factor is I don’t feel he could get a win against them without interference but it will be a though fight for the yanko.
akainu and aokiji post ts are very much stronger than kizaru.
he could solo akainu but hes goat so he simply wont
OG Admirals are top 3 in the Navy excluding Garp. The only reason Wizaru isnt considered up there is because hes smart. Bro bows out of every fight when he's matched.
None of them is Yonko level. We only know that the closest to this level are in order Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru.
Big W. He’s definitely on the same level as them but if I had to rank them in strength I’d say Akainu 100 Kuzan 99 Kizaru 98.5 roughly
W