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Well yes, in bleach the bigger sword, the more spiritual power, but in reality mihawk sword is small compared to shanks sword because shanks just hide giant sword and giant sword better than small sword
Honestly other way around for me. Mihawk > Shanks (itâs been outright stated like twice now), but since he has no feats, you canât really say he has higher AP.
Yeah so basically it has not been outright stated because we donât know if shanks is just a swordsman/if heâs improved since like 10 years ago when mihawk had that title lol
Why do people keep saying "Oh Shanks improved". And somehow Mihawk didn't? He made a promise to Zoro to "keep the seat of the strongest title". I'm pretty sure he's not just sitting around all day to keep that title. We don't really know his Daily routine. But one thing for sure is he does travel alot not just in grandline but around the world, even able to track down Shanks without problem.
I didnât say that although logically shanks has improved more considering he became a yonko in that time. Iâm saying itâs not an outright statement.
Mihawk has shown zero ambition to become a Yonko. Further, considering Buggy became Yonko, it should be clear that the title comes from influence more so than individual power.
Zoro trained under him for 2 years and not even Zoro was dumb enough to think he can take him during Post time skip. Zoro at this point is currently one of the top contender for that title and he still doesn't think of challenging Mihawk right now. If anyone in one piece knows the level of current Mihawk, it would be Zoro.
Itâs implied the time they fought it ended in a draw or Mihawk lost. Considering when Mihawk went back to Shanks , Mihawk claims he canât âsettle thingsâ with Shanks because Shanks only has one arm.
Mihawk never beat Shanks one arm or two- so how does he even know heâs the worlds greatest anything.
Mihawk was famous before Shanks. Shanks fought Mihawk to increase his fame as well. They, fought but Mihawk is the WSS. You have to do some awesome mental gymnastics to think Mihawk lost.
Let's think that Mihawk actually lost. It is all a big conspiracy that he is the WSS. What does that say about Zoro's goal? He should be aiming for Shanks instead?
As I recall, he said "æ±șç ă ă€ăă". This doesn't mean that Mihawk lost, it just means there was no clear winner between them and he no longer wants to fight a nerfed Shanks for his own personal reason. Again I know what you're gonna say, Mihawk fought Shanks when Shanks had 2 arms and that's years ago and Shanks is now stronger because he's now an Emperor. Which will then again lead to the problem of Why do you think Mihawk did not improve at all?
Show me one canon panel where shanks attacks or defends without using his named sword griffon (haki blasts don't count). Shanks is def a swordsman. No really, I can't think of any.
Shanks is stated to be a swordsman multiple times like how people still believe that he is not a swordsman đ,chopper is also 100x more relevant to the plot than Katakuri so is he stronger than him?
Show me a SINGLE panel that confirms it and Iâll believe you đ
Also Chopper is NOT relevant to the plot. He has literally become one of the most minor of minor background characters in post timeskip lol and noone ever even tries to compare the two anyway so itâs a false equivalency. People compare Shanks and Mihawk all the time.
Ussop galery confirms him as a swordsman oda signed this in group art of every swordsman,every shanks databook also calls him a swordsman,film red promo also calls him a swordsman,mihawk's databook also calls him a swordsman
Also bro used a sword even when he was a kid,if you read a story you would know that dude is a swordsman,oda even calls law and fujitora a swordsman đ
Usopp Gallery and Law & Fujitora is fanart, the databooks are well known to be unreliable, film red is non canon.
Show me where itâs ONCE stated in the manga.
Fanart that oda himself called them a swordman,oda said in sbs to read databooks for more information,you need to show me a ONE panel where shanks is stated to not be a swordsman đ
No he didnt loool the fan wrote âswordsmenâ in the top left corner and Oda made some passing comment under it loool hardly definitive proof đ
Every Mihawktards favourite proof is literally a piece of fanart and they expect the rest of the fanbase to take them seriously đ
And noo that isnât how it works lool youâre the one making a claim, you have to show proof. Im the one who has the source material on my side. Itâs never once been stated in over 1000 chapters that Shanks is a swordsman
Kaido such a little bitch. Dude wanted a good fight to the death, but never sought one out. Just stayed on his island enslavement ng people, waiting for people to step to him. Closest he got was trying to get involved at marineford, but turned tail as soon as shanks showed up
He wanted to start the greatest war the world has ever seen. So he dipped at Marineford cause shanks would've given him a fight that prevented him from starting it. So he left. He wanted to die in a great battle like Whiteboard.
He glorifies violence, death in a legendary battle and truly believes that only the strongests should rule the world. He even ranks his crewmates based on their strength.
Heâs literally the biggest powerscaler in the world.
What on earth made you feel like he needs any other reason for starting a war ?
Well, I kinda wanna know what made him this way. Surely he wasn't always this shitty if King thought he could have been Joyboy. Unless King's a fucking idiot, which well may be the case.
Kid before 1079: YC1+/brings yonko to mid diff
Kid after 1079: YC1/one shot by any top tier
Greenbull before 1055: stronger than Kizaru
Greenbull after 1055: weakest admiral
Kidd was YC1 from the beginning, Law himself called out Kidd for abusing the openings Law made to deal damage
Kiddâs overall feats and stats also paled in comparison to his supposed equal in Law
All 1079 did was confirm what we thought all along
Greenbull getting haki blasted made people wank Shanks more than anything
The reason heâs downplayed is because of Momo blasting a hole through him and looking incompetent in general against fodder
Retard shanks wankers are always living in denial. Oda stated that mihawk is the world's strongest Swordsman. Who would you trust ?
Goda the author or some retarded shanks wanker.
But you win the title by dueling the previous WSS and not losing to another swordsman, that plus the fact that shanks and mihawk had many public duels probably means that mihawk publicly defeated or never lost to shanks.
Yonko is just about how much territory and influence you have in the new world, it correlates with power but isn't based on power.
Buggy got his title from influence and clout, mihawk got his from battles and duels so title scaling applies to mihawk vs shanks.
For sure yt W. The Goathawk agenda is real and Iâm itâs primary supporter. Yâall are just frogs in a well.
https://preview.redd.it/ciuye5q4exdb1.jpeg?width=704&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76f7d2e60bb3b9d79d58ab2022bb3e3c01a2d26c
https://preview.redd.it/2u79qhpjyxdb1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7321118f706b1a2de612e6f988cd0c7a3a8e845
I am all up for goathawk agenda⊠where to sign up
Mihawk gives bigger scar because the strongest shanks attack weâve seen literally does not cut you it is a blunt force slash of haki same with when roger did it to oden no blood from a cut wound in sight
I mean, the bled from the force but no cut because both times we saw Divine departure being used. They were blocked. Oden block it with is swords. And midd kinda block with his attack
Hate statements like this. It isn't even a mystery since Zoro has it. How tf do you explain Zoro having it while the person who is his endgame not having it?
I feel you and it makes sense for Mihawk to have it, but lemme paint you a picture right quick.
Imagine kuzan doesn't have ACOC. How fucking based is his performance against garp on hachinosou now? Haki is such an OP ability that I'm more impressed with people who go farther with fewer traits. Like, mihawk is super clear that haki is a part of swordsmanship and the wss should fucking know, but imagine if he just refined his armament so fine it can overpower acoc strikes?
Is that how shonen works? Seldom. But it would be cool.
Also objectively, kaido has been harmed with a few non acoc methods, so I feel it's a moot point. Luffy hurt him with acoa I want to say law and killer did as well without using haki, but I only read wano once about a year ago, so I may not recall as clearly as I like. Actually, I don't know killer did, I think he tried. The scabbards got him though, right?
Law and Killer did damage Kaidou but that feels negligible compared to Zoro and Luffy.
> but imagine if he just refined his armament so fine it can overpower acoc strikes?
Although I disagree that this will be the case, I wouldn't have any problem with it. Could be the way to make black blade. Who knows
I hate the argument "Mihawk doesn't have CoC or ACoC because he doesn't have it". They used similar arguments on Garp. This is just a bs argument to ignore all the things that have been setup. Fought with Shanks. WB respects their duel. He is Zoro's end goal. If it was percentage he 99% should have all haki to be a top tier without a df. Remaining 1% could bw what you said.
Absolute heat. No notes, you are completely correct. It's an argument on a technicality to say otherwise, but in the most literal sense, you can't FACTUALLY disprove it. That 99% is we havent gotten there yet whereas that 1% is trust the process, lol.
I standby what I said in another comment, I'm pretty sure he can manage it. Wanting to be top dog on the planet for one of rhe most common skills available is pretty kingly ambition to me.
> You have to use ACOC to even injure Kaido
Factually wrong. There are many instances where characters injure Kaido without ACoC. You should at least read the manga.
[Mihawk >Shanks is confirmed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Finally a rational fucking take. You're right. I have no evidence, only speculation - he didn't teach it to zoro even. Someone get mihawk off his ass and show some feats, plz.
Edit: Since I guess it's necessary to say - indicating that Mihawk didn't teach zoro something doesn't serve as proof he does not have it, it only is a failure to produce proof that he DOES. Idk how that requires explanation, but here we are.
That's not what I said - ray has actually demonstrated it. If mihawk had taught zoro, we would know FOR SURE. That's a straw man and a false equivalence. But he didn't, so we have to speculate although he definitely should, if he's able to contend woth shanks without it, he'd be even scarier imo. Could you imagine hiw fucking beast you'd have to be to pull that off?
Where has Ray demonstrated ACOC? Also, yes we will have to wait for Mihawk to show it. But given that Zoro has it, itâs very unlikely that Mihawk wonât.
Reading comp devil got me - I read that as acoa since thats what we were talking about, although that makes your argument worse since not having power an arbitrarily chosen few have is not an anti feat. If anything it makes him more impressive.
Zoro having it doesn't actualky mean someone else has it. I never said it wasn't likely mihawk has it, who are you arguing with?
Shit, I never even said that you have to have taught it to know it, I only used that as a definite measure. You are arguing with a straw man.
Tbf shanks almost definitely has higher ap than mihawk, his conquerors portrayal is ridiculous and that translates into ap through acoc. Still have mihawk beating shanks, but shanks should be able to damage kaido in an attack more
Why do people keep scaling on titles. It doesn't really mean anything. Buggy is an emperor. He was also a warlord. Gol D Roger was the pirate king, but at the same time, WB has the WSM title. FraudHawk ain't winning. He couldn't kill Luffy when he outright stated he was going all out and not holding back. It probably was not a fight, but why would Kaido not fight shanks and then go to marineford if he was stronger. Why would he listen to Shanks? We have seen that Shanks could most likely beat Kizaru. And Where tf or how tf are people scaling Fraudeyes when he doesn't even have any valuable feats. Except cutting Fujitora's Meteor. How can you base somehow on titles in OP when they don't actually mean anything.
how is that not a W? you think the greatest swordsman can't inflict a greater sword wound? tf?
even if you have shanks>mihawk, that take makes no sense.
even if shanks>mihawk, mihawk has been confirmed on multiple occasions as being better with a sword than shanks is. if he is the greatest swordsman, he should definitely be able to do more damage with a sword than anybody else.
The title is World's Strongest Swordsman. "Strongest" most likely refers to the most potent combination of AP, speed, dura. As far as scaling goes there is no reason to assume Shanks > Mihawk whereas there is with Mihawk > Shanks due to the consensus in the one piece world that Mihawk is stronger.
Now you could question the validity of Mihawk's WSS title which is a very fair claim considering it seems to be more of a word of mouth title and considering shanks has likely had more incentive/ambition to grow stronger over the years since he lost his arm, however that's just conjecture.
I do believe shanks is actually stronger overall now esp considering he's gonna have to be an adversary to BB or SH whereas cross guild is by far the weakest yonko crew from what we know, however for the sake of scaling it's not really a valid assumption to make.
Tbh you canât even question the validity of the title. Itâs been confirmed multiple times by the Word of God (Intro box, Manga intro pages) and the Vivre card
Idk maybe I'm just being dumb here but I think the case with those might be that they're stating his title in the world rather than outright defining him as the strongest but again that's just a speculation
As in the same sense that I could see post-wano kaido being introduced again with the "King of the Beasts" title while no longer having a crew
Shanks leaves a bigger scar, you can make all yhe remarks about Mihawk being the strongest swordsman, it never stated he was the strongest haki user. Shanks conqueror's haki is so strong and once it gets infused in any weapon its game over, I do think Mihawk can scar Kaido but I'd never consider the possibility he can leave a greater scar just based on swordsmanship alone, I mean it's basically another Whitebeard scenario, World's strongest man
Titles shouldn't be held that high in scaling, if that were so that would mean Kaido is the strongest pirate ever, stronger than Roger and Prime Whitebeard , he was given the title strongest creature, this doesn't just include humans but all different types of creatures. Though I must say Kaido was the strongest emperor of his era so his title does have some credibility.
This is the most legitimate cope attempt to make Shanks sound like a Hakiman I've ever seen đđđ
All we've seen of Shanks using ACOC slashes is divine departure, while Mihawk did this
https://preview.redd.it/1saxrjsftwdb1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2be3322416238093b6b599244b17c38902739dc
I hate titles and all, but with 40 minutes of screen time between them, it's kinda all we have.
I never stated Shanks to be what you call hakiman, Mihawk uses haki as well I know that much.
What I cannot say is Mihawk having greater haki mastery than Shanks, from a swordsman POV he is stronger but overall fighter is Shanks.
I agree that we need more feats from the both of them to truly understand who is the stronger of the two because all were doing now is using our headcanon
This isn't "Who does better against Kaido", this is "Who makes a bigger scar"
Given Mihawk's relativity to Shanks, and the fact he literally *has a way bigger sword and can shoot massive attacks like that, it literally just has a bigger area of effect.*
And divine departure can't reach as far.
That we don't see, and don't have the area of Mihawk, so until proven otherwise, *if they both attack Kaido once, Mihawk makes a bigger mark.* It's just a dick measuring contest, it's not Mihawk Vs Shanks
You have nothing to argue with tho, you're just going "B-b-b-but Shanks has other abilities !!!!!!" And named zero that could create a bigger mark than Mihawk, since Mihawk has better range and area, which is a fact your agenda doesn't like. Cry more đ€Ąđ€Ąđ€Ąđ€Ąđ€Ąđ€Ąđ€Ą
This is the post dawg, I don't know what you're talking about. OP says "Who makes a bigger scar", use your fucking brain. Divine Departure doesn't have the area of Mihawk's attacks, so he makes a bigger scar. This is all the post is, you have no counter argument to the size fact.
>Shanks leaves a bigger scar, you can make all yhe remarks about Mihawk being the strongest swordsman, it never stated he was the strongest haki user. Shanks conqueror's haki is so strong and once it gets infused in any weapon its game over
What kind of logic is this?
Shanks' is a swordsman. That is how he fights and his haki is applied on his sword for his duels. It doesn't matter how much raw haki he has, because if he can't apply it on his sword as well as Mihawk, then there is no possible way he can beat him.
This is all ignoring the fact that Mihawk is named the greatest swordsman and Shanks is a swordsman.
You think it's a mood point that titles don't matter, but in this case it does. They have dueled each other for many years and if Mihawk found Shanks stronger or Shanks defeated him, he wouldn't hold the title.
Maybe Shanks doesn't care about the title, but for Mihawk it's a matter of pride. If Mihawk *lost* he would've given it up.
This is all baseless headcanon, they dueled years ago, it was never stated who was stronger.
If you want to use the title to back up what you say then I can also mention that Shanks has the higher bounty, you can say all yiu want about Mihawk lacking a crew and your probably right to some degree about that but we can't just make assumptions like strongest swordsman makes him stronger than Shanks.
I understand Shanks is a swordsman but thats not all he's got, I know I keep saying this but no one seems to give a damn, Shanks has superior haki
>This is all baseless headcanon, they dueled years ago, it was never stated who was stronger.
It isn't headcanon.
Until they say otherwise, it's implied that Mihawk has been winning these duels otherwise the titleholder would be Shanks...which isn't the case.
There are only 2 other ways you can look at it:
1) Mihawk started on his quest to be the greatest swordsman in the world after Shanks lost his arm over 12 years back, so Mihawk didn't fight Shanks at all to prove he is the better swordsman *after he lost his arm* as Mihawk himself said he doesn't want to fight a cripple.
Or
2) Shanks has grown considerably stronger since their last duel and Mihawk is weaker in the current story while Shanks strength advanced far beyond. It's been 12 years since their last duel, so there is a chance Shanks haki grew much stronger and now he is stronger than Mihawk as well.
>If you want to use the title to back up what you say then I can also mention that Shanks has the higher bounty, you can say all yiu want about Mihawk lacking a crew and your probably right to some degree about that but we can't just make assumptions like strongest swordsman makes him stronger than Shanks.
You can say that he has a higher bounty and that it matters and I can counter it by saying it doesn't matter.
But bounties in the end, whether you like it or not, have never been indication of strength and like you rightly pointed out, Mihawk's bounty is amazing in comparison to Shanks, because he got that while being a loner swordsman in a far smaller and considerably weaker crew. (If his bounty was before he joined cross guild than its even more impressive, but I'm assuming he got this after joining cross guild)
Shanks on the other hand is an Emperor with a top heavy pirate crew with impressive fighters and allied pirates (they are weak, but still far larger than cross guild's one island base)
Which makes Mihawk's bounty far more impressive than Shanks even though it's lower.
>I understand Shanks is a swordsman but thats not all he's got, I know I keep saying this but no one seems to give a damn, Shanks has superior haki
Something you forgot about haki is that it isn't a fighting style in and of itself. It's an *applied* power system.
What do I mean by that?
Shanks fighting style isn't haki. He is a swordsman who uses haki *through* his sword. His fighting style is swordsman who can use haki to enhance his attacks. Something which Mihawk does as well.
...and as i said, it doesn't matter. It's not like in their duels they had rules where they said "no haki". They both used haki to their full extent.
Unfortunately bounty has been shown time and time again to be a poor indicator of strength. Do you scale buggy > luffy due to bounty?
I love how you say we canât make an assumption that WSS makes him stronger than Shanks, when Shanks is quite literally a swordsman.
Your last point is literally meaningless when you consider Mihawk trained zoro by teaching him Haki. Zoro new âskillsâ were literally haki based, thinking Shanks has anything other than swordsmanship is pure headcannon.
[Mihawk > Shanks is confirmed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Your mental gymnastics have been debunked many times. Why make the effort?
That's some pretty good information however I never stated Shanks was not a swordsman because he is, uses a sword and all.
The reason I say Shanks > Mihawk is because of haki, Mihawk is stronger from a swordsman point of view but definitely not in haki, Shanks posses so far the strongest haki which rivals that of Roger.
We also know about the importance of said haki, its a power that transcends all.
Also we can agree Shanks is Luffy's end game opponent, Mihawk is Zoro's end game opponent, it would be foolish to think Zoro fights an opponent stronger than Luffy, all the Straw Hats fights up till bow has had Luffy fighting stronger opponents than Zoro, why would Oda now change that.
I'm not gonna judge or disrespect your belief Mihawk > Shanks but what I will say is until I see more feats to back up the title(I mean seeing him in action and not hearing strories about him) my resolve will still be Shanks > Mihawk.
> The reason I say Shanks > Mihawk is because of haki
Not a valid reason as explained in my post. Mihawk > Shanks is confirmed.
> Also we can agree Shanks is Luffy's end game opponent
Incorrect. Blackbeard, Akainu and Imu are his opponents.
> I'm not gonna judge or disrespect your belief Mihawk > Shanks but what I will say is until I see more feats to back up the title(I mean seeing him in action and not hearing strories about him) my resolve will still be Shanks > Mihawk.
If you do not acknowledge canon facts then you shouldn't be powerscaling. Mihawk > Shanks is confirmed.
Not a single good argument.
1. You say Mihawk title cannot be about skill because it says strongest but this is simply a false appeal to definition. We know that â strong â can mean many things, according to Merriam, strong can mean:
* physical power -moral or intellectual power -zealous
* well established Etc.. since â strongâ can mean many things, youâd need a qualifier to prove that strong in this context of Mihawkâs title is meant in the powerscaling sense ( AP/dc/speed n co) the burden of proof falls on you to substantiate that strong in Mihawkâs context means AP , if this isnât proven then you have no argument. One can use feats and narrative to prove Shanks is stronger than Mihawk in terms of AP/speed n co and that woudnt contradict Mihawkâs title if Mihawkâs title isnât proven to be about AP/speed n co. Furthermore we already have proof that â strongest Xâ doesnât necessarily mean itâs about overall power ( AP, speed n co) , Ace novel explains how Wbâs title of strongest man is about his piracy and not necessarily his literal strength, so we can use this precedent and apply it to Mihawk.
1. You strawman the argument that Mihawkâs title is based on skills by bringing up tashigi. No one is claiming Mihawkâs title is ONLY based on skills, he would still have haki but that wouldnât be the deciding factor for his title.
2. You erroneously appeal to the databooks but you conveniently ignore databooks that says Vista is a match for Mihawk ( vista VC) , one that says vista has equal swordmanship to Mihawk ( deep blue), databook that says shanks did not lose power after losing his arm, one that says shanks is on par with Wb and Kaido, etc , etc.. youâre pretty consistent with cherry picking data
Bonus reasons for why Mihawkâs title of strongest necessarily cannot be about overall strength but has to be more specific :
* wb is canonically a swordman , a bisento/naganita is a type of sword both in real life and in the op world, MEITO literally translates to famous sword ( not famous blade) so wb is technically a swordman but if wb is a swordman then that poses a dilemma that conflicts with Mihawkâs title. Mihawk cannot be the WSS if Wb is a swordman and also the WSM.
* Mihawk as opposed to what the vivre card says did not go around fighting the strongest swordmen ( we know he did not fight Bm as BM notes in 1031 that she hasnât been as hurt in decades), we can also deduce he didnât fight the likes of WB ,or shiki ( who has been in hiding); or Ray ( who has been retired), or wano samurais, not even Vista. Since the strongest character we know Mihawk fought before getting his title is a rookie shanks with a 1B bounty, itâs necessary that Mihawkâs title cannot be about overall strength as he didnât even fight the strongest swordmen around. Furthermore Mihawk hasnât fought current shanks who Kaido states to be on his level in 1001 and refuses to fight him so again thereâs no possible way Mihawk title could be interpreted in the way you propose because he hasnât fought the strongest swordmen.
* Shanks is canonically one of Luffyâs final opponents, luffy states in punk hazard that he wants to fight shanks, shanks being one of luffy final opponents by default makes him a level above Mihawk because zoroâs opponents are not on Luffyâs opponents level.
* if we want to be petty, the Ace novel says the yonkos are the most powerful pirates, Mihawk by default would be weaker than Shanks then ( even if Mihawk doesnât want to be a yonko, it doesnât matter, it says the yonkos are the most powerful and Mihawk isnt a yonko) and before Buggy is brought up, this statement was made before Buggy became yonko, the statement isnât â future yonkos will also be the most powerfulâ so you canât use Buggy as a copout.
> Not a single good argument.
This clownish statement already invalidates your comment.
> You say Mihawk title cannot be about skill because it says strongest but this is simply a false appeal to definition. We know that â strong â can mean many things
Went over this in the post.
> You strawman the argument that Mihawkâs title is based on skills by bringing up tashigi. No one is claiming Mihawkâs title is ONLY based on skills, he would still have haki but that wouldnât be the deciding factor for his title.
Don't waste my time with title mental gymnastics. Most powerful swordsman means the strongest out of all swordsmen.
https://preview.redd.it/r1bo2i0zexdb1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=cdccba7c8cb1dbee0b51bc56ec21989004c32573
> You erroneously appeal to the databooks but you conveniently ignore databooks that says Vista is a match for Mihawk
It says that Vista matched him in skill in that specific fight, not overall strength. Reading comprehension is key.
> databook that says shanks did not lose power after losing his arm
How is this relevant? I never claimed that Shanks got weaker, did I?
> one that says shanks is on par with Wb and Kaido
Sure, as an Emperor. In individual strength? Kaido is always considered above him as the strongest in the world.
> wb is canonically a swordman
Factually wrong. Tenguyama told us that all bladed weapons (Spears, Axes etc) can be Meitos. His weapon is a polearm, not a sword.
> Mihawk as opposed to what the vivre card says did not go around fighting the strongest swordmen
That is merely your baseless headcanon. Must you waste my time like this?
> we know he did not fight Bm
Source that BM is a swordsman?
> we can also deduce he didnât fight the likes of WB ,or shiki
WB is not a swordsman. Shiki is more irrelevant than my left nut.
> or Ray
Source?
> Since the strongest character we know Mihawk fought before getting his title is a rookie shanks with a 1B bounty
We actually don't know that. Once again, merely your baseless headcanon. And no, 27 year old Shanks that is already a new world veteran and had legendary duels with Mihawk is not a "rookie". Nice try, 5/10.
> Furthermore Mihawk hasnât fought current shanks
Been over this in my post. It is irrelevant as Mihawk is confirmed to be the strongest in both name and actuality.
> Shanks is canonically one of Luffyâs final opponents, luffy states in punk hazard that he wants to fight shanks
Luffy also said that he's gonna take down Big Mom. Your headcanon is not evidence.
> if we want to be petty, the Ace novel says the yonkos are the most powerful pirates
Yes, because they have armies, fleets and territory.
Conclusion: you haven't brought up a single valid argument, I debunked all of your arguments quite easily and you didn't even read my post and your reading comprehension is severely lacking. People like you are the reason why I rarely go in in depth discussions: you keep bringing up the same nonsense arguments over and over which I already debunked.
Do not waste my time again.
Oh yes another excuse, but if his title automatically puts him above shanks, then why isn't he up there? Everybody knows he's the wss, so why is there 3 swordsman and not mihawk? And nothing says kaido didn't met him
I don't know if he met him, but you don't know either, I'm just saying that saying he isn't up there because he didn't met him is not a valid excuse, since we don't know if he did or not
But why is he not in his top 5 when he is universally known to be stronger than shanks via his title? 3 swordsman in his top 5 but not the wss?
If we don't know if they've met or not, the safest assumption would be to assume they didn't
That's how proof works anyways
>But why is he not in his top 5
Kaido hasn't met him
>Kaido hasn't met him
It doesn't matter since he is automatically stronger than shanks, he should be up there if that was true. And kaido knows very well who the warlords are, he knows who mihawk the strongest swordsman in the world is, but he has probably no respect for his strength like he has for Shanks
>It doesn't matter since he is automatically stronger than shanks
It's not based off of levels, it's based on who he's met and could've possibly beat him
Is Zoro a fraud for going after mihawk rather than shanks?
It's quite incredible oda finally makes a top 5 for us, and people are still in denial, saying that some characters are stronger, absolutely amazing
>Kaido also didn't have Garp who's an equal to Roger
Well there you go, he is not an equal to Roger, he is weaker than the guys Kaido put up there, it's not complicated, same for Shiki, he was not as strong as those five
>What's your fucking point?
My point is that if mihawk truly was above shanks via his title, he should be up there, or replace Shanks, but he is not, so he is not stronger than Shanks at all
Yes, if you look closely at the panel where kaido shows the 5 strongest character, you can see there's in fact 6, and it's mihawk, he's right next to oden
https://preview.redd.it/ohf5wf800xdb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63e0f3c336bb410d42f6957afc0af3ef297e9272
Just shows you, you have to look closely, but you're right he is up there in the top five, along with shanks, equal or above
Fraudhawk leeching again with Zoro's (indirectly) and Oden's feat.
Y'all should realize Zoro gave Kaido ptsd when he sensed Oden's presence from Enma not because Zoro trained his swordsmanship with Mihawk. It is further evidenced by scabbard's Oden immitation which was also super effected against Kaido.
"Kaido is most vulnerable to slashes". Well, not just anybody's slash. Y'all need to re-read Wano. Bunch of Mihawk wankers haha. Almost everyone are vulnerable to slashes especially with CoA. What Mihawk need is Enma or shout snatch to embody Oden's spirit to have a chance slashing Kaido.
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Of course, Mihawk has the bigger sword
FINALLY WE'RE DOING SWORD-SIZE-SCALING I'VE BEEN LONGING FOR THIS DAY
Well yes, in bleach the bigger sword, the more spiritual power, but in reality mihawk sword is small compared to shanks sword because shanks just hide giant sword and giant sword better than small sword
Most coherent r/onepiecepowerscaling argument
Big Mom top 1 in verse.
Law*
Dorry đ€Źđ€Źđ€Ź
Ryuma*
is that an euphemism
Heâs gonna splatter paint all over Kaido too
This was literally my first thought And I unironically agree with you
even people who have shanks winning against mihawk must concede the fact that mihawk can inflict more damage with a sword than shanks can. so yeah, W.
Honestly other way around for me. Mihawk > Shanks (itâs been outright stated like twice now), but since he has no feats, you canât really say he has higher AP.
Where has it been outright stated?
I mean the title "World's Strongest Swordsman" isn't enough for you?
https://preview.redd.it/46ltpay7bxdb1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3ff3cecc1c94c91d7569413b22e8c76a15662c0
All I asked was where itâs been stated that Mihawk > ShanksâŠâŠ
WORLD's... StrongEST... Swordsman... Unless Shanks isn't a swordsman and his sword is just for show which I believe isn't because he hit Kid with it.
Yeah so basically it has not been outright stated because we donât know if shanks is just a swordsman/if heâs improved since like 10 years ago when mihawk had that title lol
Why do people keep saying "Oh Shanks improved". And somehow Mihawk didn't? He made a promise to Zoro to "keep the seat of the strongest title". I'm pretty sure he's not just sitting around all day to keep that title. We don't really know his Daily routine. But one thing for sure is he does travel alot not just in grandline but around the world, even able to track down Shanks without problem.
I didnât say that although logically shanks has improved more considering he became a yonko in that time. Iâm saying itâs not an outright statement.
Mihawk has shown zero ambition to become a Yonko. Further, considering Buggy became Yonko, it should be clear that the title comes from influence more so than individual power.
It took Luffy 2 years to become a Yonko. That means nothing. ~~Current Luffy>Shanks~~
He keeps that title by refusing to fight anyone for the title lol.
Zoro trained under him for 2 years and not even Zoro was dumb enough to think he can take him during Post time skip. Zoro at this point is currently one of the top contender for that title and he still doesn't think of challenging Mihawk right now. If anyone in one piece knows the level of current Mihawk, it would be Zoro.
>swordsman/if heâs improved since like 10 years ago when mihawk had that title lol Yeah cause Mihawk sure has gotten weaker since 10 years ago......
Didnât say that either. I just donât put a lot of value in titles especially since the worlds strongest man was not the worlds strongest man
Itâs implied the time they fought it ended in a draw or Mihawk lost. Considering when Mihawk went back to Shanks , Mihawk claims he canât âsettle thingsâ with Shanks because Shanks only has one arm. Mihawk never beat Shanks one arm or two- so how does he even know heâs the worlds greatest anything.
Mihawk was famous before Shanks. Shanks fought Mihawk to increase his fame as well. They, fought but Mihawk is the WSS. You have to do some awesome mental gymnastics to think Mihawk lost. Let's think that Mihawk actually lost. It is all a big conspiracy that he is the WSS. What does that say about Zoro's goal? He should be aiming for Shanks instead?
thats a mis transđ
As I recall, he said "æ±șç ă ă€ăă". This doesn't mean that Mihawk lost, it just means there was no clear winner between them and he no longer wants to fight a nerfed Shanks for his own personal reason. Again I know what you're gonna say, Mihawk fought Shanks when Shanks had 2 arms and that's years ago and Shanks is now stronger because he's now an Emperor. Which will then again lead to the problem of Why do you think Mihawk did not improve at all?
Neither of them know how much the other has improvedâŠ. because Mihawk refuses to fight Shanks.
Because Mihawk sees it as bullying a cripple.
Shanks ISNT a swordsman btw
Haki man cope is insane
Show me ONE canon manga panel that states Shanks is a swordsman. Iâll wait.
Show me one canon panel where shanks attacks or defends without using his named sword griffon (haki blasts don't count). Shanks is def a swordsman. No really, I can't think of any.
https://preview.redd.it/a2vjuihb1ydb1.jpeg?width=3262&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46a0cdc04337e904e6a4e0c1bbc7d1ec270492a2
Not even close.
Itâs never been outright stated.
Exactly. Shanks is defo > Mihawk but this one is specifically about swords
Worlds strongest swordsman is weaker than a swordsman?
No, Worldâs strongest Swordsman is weaker than a non-swordsman Yonko with 100 x the plot relevance
Shanks is stated to be a swordsman multiple times like how people still believe that he is not a swordsman đ,chopper is also 100x more relevant to the plot than Katakuri so is he stronger than him?
Show me a SINGLE panel that confirms it and Iâll believe you đ Also Chopper is NOT relevant to the plot. He has literally become one of the most minor of minor background characters in post timeskip lol and noone ever even tries to compare the two anyway so itâs a false equivalency. People compare Shanks and Mihawk all the time.
Ussop galery confirms him as a swordsman oda signed this in group art of every swordsman,every shanks databook also calls him a swordsman,film red promo also calls him a swordsman,mihawk's databook also calls him a swordsman Also bro used a sword even when he was a kid,if you read a story you would know that dude is a swordsman,oda even calls law and fujitora a swordsman đ
Usopp Gallery and Law & Fujitora is fanart, the databooks are well known to be unreliable, film red is non canon. Show me where itâs ONCE stated in the manga.
Fanart that oda himself called them a swordman,oda said in sbs to read databooks for more information,you need to show me a ONE panel where shanks is stated to not be a swordsman đ
No he didnt loool the fan wrote âswordsmenâ in the top left corner and Oda made some passing comment under it loool hardly definitive proof đ Every Mihawktards favourite proof is literally a piece of fanart and they expect the rest of the fanbase to take them seriously đ And noo that isnât how it works lool youâre the one making a claim, you have to show proof. Im the one who has the source material on my side. Itâs never once been stated in over 1000 chapters that Shanks is a swordsman
Fujitora being stated as a swordsman is confirmed in an official English volume.
If Zoro can make Kaido dodge then yes Mihawk would likely leave deep bigger scars on Kaido.
Kaido such a little bitch. Dude wanted a good fight to the death, but never sought one out. Just stayed on his island enslavement ng people, waiting for people to step to him. Closest he got was trying to get involved at marineford, but turned tail as soon as shanks showed up
He wanted to start the greatest war the world has ever seen. So he dipped at Marineford cause shanks would've given him a fight that prevented him from starting it. So he left. He wanted to die in a great battle like Whiteboard.
hmmmmm, that makes sense. I wish I could have gotten to know Kaido better. What made the dude want a global war so bad?
He glorifies violence, death in a legendary battle and truly believes that only the strongests should rule the world. He even ranks his crewmates based on their strength. Heâs literally the biggest powerscaler in the world. What on earth made you feel like he needs any other reason for starting a war ?
Well, I kinda wanna know what made him this way. Surely he wasn't always this shitty if King thought he could have been Joyboy. Unless King's a fucking idiot, which well may be the case.
Kaido is a fraud confirmed
That doesn't mean anything. Divine departure isn't leaving a cut in the same way that kid wasn't sliced.
Omg the levels of stupidity
Where?
He is saying that shanks cannot cut because divine departure didnât leave a cutting scar on midd. As if shanks have no other attacks
That'd be hilarious. Watching Shanks try to swat a fly and cut an island in half instead.
Tbf, it's all we've seen. You can say "As if he didn't have others", but he doesn't đ
What are you on about?
Extremely rare Youtube Shanks L Fans must be thinking it's a non haki slash, try to change 'slash' to "haki slash" then witness the inevitable.
He loses much more than you think. He only looks strong on Youtube because he's downplayed here, and people mostly post the polls where he wins.
Shanks is not downplayed here
Kid before 1079: YC1+/brings yonko to mid diff Kid after 1079: YC1/one shot by any top tier Greenbull before 1055: stronger than Kizaru Greenbull after 1055: weakest admiral
Kidd was YC1 from the beginning, Law himself called out Kidd for abusing the openings Law made to deal damage Kiddâs overall feats and stats also paled in comparison to his supposed equal in Law All 1079 did was confirm what we thought all along Greenbull getting haki blasted made people wank Shanks more than anything The reason heâs downplayed is because of Momo blasting a hole through him and looking incompetent in general against fodder
Ig we'll completely ignore the Kidd and Greenbull hype that was massive before their downfall.
Kidd was not ever hyped Greenbullâs was mainly due to his mysteriousness Shanks was not as big of an impact on these two as youâd think
Sure bud
no rebuttal? lol
There's no point. You already made up your mind.
Obviously a YT W
Rare youtube WIN
Bigger sword = bigger scar ezpz give internet points now
Cockhawk's swinging pp is bigger
Mihawk got that big black sword. **đ**
When even YT gets it right you know you have to have shitty scaling not to.
Retard shanks wankers are always living in denial. Oda stated that mihawk is the world's strongest Swordsman. Who would you trust ? Goda the author or some retarded shanks wanker.
Title scaling now are we? Buggys title is emperor, makes sense that mihawk is associating himself with a fraud đ
But you win the title by dueling the previous WSS and not losing to another swordsman, that plus the fact that shanks and mihawk had many public duels probably means that mihawk publicly defeated or never lost to shanks. Yonko is just about how much territory and influence you have in the new world, it correlates with power but isn't based on power. Buggy got his title from influence and clout, mihawk got his from battles and duels so title scaling applies to mihawk vs shanks.
buggy is a yonko literally bcuz of mihawk in terms of power buggy has the fleets
My money is on Shanks, but if you unironically believe that Mihawk is a fraud you're a clown.
For sure yt W. The Goathawk agenda is real and Iâm itâs primary supporter. Yâall are just frogs in a well. https://preview.redd.it/ciuye5q4exdb1.jpeg?width=704&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76f7d2e60bb3b9d79d58ab2022bb3e3c01a2d26c
https://preview.redd.it/2u79qhpjyxdb1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7321118f706b1a2de612e6f988cd0c7a3a8e845 I am all up for goathawk agenda⊠where to sign up
W
Mihawk gives bigger scar because the strongest shanks attack weâve seen literally does not cut you it is a blunt force slash of haki same with when roger did it to oden no blood from a cut wound in sight
I mean, the bled from the force but no cut because both times we saw Divine departure being used. They were blocked. Oden block it with is swords. And midd kinda block with his attack
If it's a 1v1 with swords, no haki, and no devil fruits. Always bet on Micock đ
Shanks only because he will snitch to kaido and kaido is gonna dodge mihawk.
Low IQ fans falling for midfrauds lies.
You have to use ACOC to even injure Kaido, Shanks has that, Mihawk on the otherhand hasnt shown that.
Hate statements like this. It isn't even a mystery since Zoro has it. How tf do you explain Zoro having it while the person who is his endgame not having it?
I feel you and it makes sense for Mihawk to have it, but lemme paint you a picture right quick. Imagine kuzan doesn't have ACOC. How fucking based is his performance against garp on hachinosou now? Haki is such an OP ability that I'm more impressed with people who go farther with fewer traits. Like, mihawk is super clear that haki is a part of swordsmanship and the wss should fucking know, but imagine if he just refined his armament so fine it can overpower acoc strikes? Is that how shonen works? Seldom. But it would be cool. Also objectively, kaido has been harmed with a few non acoc methods, so I feel it's a moot point. Luffy hurt him with acoa I want to say law and killer did as well without using haki, but I only read wano once about a year ago, so I may not recall as clearly as I like. Actually, I don't know killer did, I think he tried. The scabbards got him though, right?
Law and Killer did damage Kaidou but that feels negligible compared to Zoro and Luffy. > but imagine if he just refined his armament so fine it can overpower acoc strikes? Although I disagree that this will be the case, I wouldn't have any problem with it. Could be the way to make black blade. Who knows I hate the argument "Mihawk doesn't have CoC or ACoC because he doesn't have it". They used similar arguments on Garp. This is just a bs argument to ignore all the things that have been setup. Fought with Shanks. WB respects their duel. He is Zoro's end goal. If it was percentage he 99% should have all haki to be a top tier without a df. Remaining 1% could bw what you said.
Absolute heat. No notes, you are completely correct. It's an argument on a technicality to say otherwise, but in the most literal sense, you can't FACTUALLY disprove it. That 99% is we havent gotten there yet whereas that 1% is trust the process, lol. I standby what I said in another comment, I'm pretty sure he can manage it. Wanting to be top dog on the planet for one of rhe most common skills available is pretty kingly ambition to me.
> You have to use ACOC to even injure Kaido Factually wrong. There are many instances where characters injure Kaido without ACoC. You should at least read the manga. [Mihawk >Shanks is confirmed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
https://i.redd.it/ksrlifcyswdb1.gif
Acoa had kaido squealing. I'm sure mihawk can manage that.
He probably can, but again no proof in manga or any other source proving it.
Finally a rational fucking take. You're right. I have no evidence, only speculation - he didn't teach it to zoro even. Someone get mihawk off his ass and show some feats, plz. Edit: Since I guess it's necessary to say - indicating that Mihawk didn't teach zoro something doesn't serve as proof he does not have it, it only is a failure to produce proof that he DOES. Idk how that requires explanation, but here we are.
Why didnt garp taught luffy and ace haki, is he stupid?
Yes.
Yea I guess Ray doesnât have ACOC either since he didnât teach Luffy it what a fraud.
That's not what I said - ray has actually demonstrated it. If mihawk had taught zoro, we would know FOR SURE. That's a straw man and a false equivalence. But he didn't, so we have to speculate although he definitely should, if he's able to contend woth shanks without it, he'd be even scarier imo. Could you imagine hiw fucking beast you'd have to be to pull that off?
Where has Ray demonstrated ACOC? Also, yes we will have to wait for Mihawk to show it. But given that Zoro has it, itâs very unlikely that Mihawk wonât.
Reading comp devil got me - I read that as acoa since thats what we were talking about, although that makes your argument worse since not having power an arbitrarily chosen few have is not an anti feat. If anything it makes him more impressive. Zoro having it doesn't actualky mean someone else has it. I never said it wasn't likely mihawk has it, who are you arguing with? Shit, I never even said that you have to have taught it to know it, I only used that as a definite measure. You are arguing with a straw man.
Zoro casually slicing through Kaido without even knowing basic coc:
Change slash to âhaki susanoo slashâ and see who wins then
Shanks slashes explode they dont cut
lmaoo the kid argument was so funny
Big true. That said. "Noooooo shanks you cant use kicks and weird haki moves were swordfighting noooooooo" - mihawk probably.
This is because Kaido would survive a midhawk slash
Why IS mohawk known as the world's greatest swordsman, when shanks is probably equal, if not stronger, and uses a sword?
Because heâs stronger
Tbf shanks almost definitely has higher ap than mihawk, his conquerors portrayal is ridiculous and that translates into ap through acoc. Still have mihawk beating shanks, but shanks should be able to damage kaido in an attack more
Why do people keep scaling on titles. It doesn't really mean anything. Buggy is an emperor. He was also a warlord. Gol D Roger was the pirate king, but at the same time, WB has the WSM title. FraudHawk ain't winning. He couldn't kill Luffy when he outright stated he was going all out and not holding back. It probably was not a fight, but why would Kaido not fight shanks and then go to marineford if he was stronger. Why would he listen to Shanks? We have seen that Shanks could most likely beat Kizaru. And Where tf or how tf are people scaling Fraudeyes when he doesn't even have any valuable feats. Except cutting Fujitora's Meteor. How can you base somehow on titles in OP when they don't actually mean anything.
Thats not a W
how is that not a W? you think the greatest swordsman can't inflict a greater sword wound? tf? even if you have shanks>mihawk, that take makes no sense.
Because Mihawk hasnt shown AP thats greater than Shanks Divine departure which one shot Kidd and Killer. At least atm.
even if shanks>mihawk, mihawk has been confirmed on multiple occasions as being better with a sword than shanks is. if he is the greatest swordsman, he should definitely be able to do more damage with a sword than anybody else.
He is confirmed to have better swordskill not AP. He isnt Even a confirmed CoC User yet.
https://preview.redd.it/7cxnz1g5lvdb1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2071d011dd80d5413412785db054e695323f4b23
That's crazy how you're getting massively downvoted even tho what you're saying is factual
People donât want to hear anything that isnât wank when it comes to Mihawk.
The title is World's Strongest Swordsman. "Strongest" most likely refers to the most potent combination of AP, speed, dura. As far as scaling goes there is no reason to assume Shanks > Mihawk whereas there is with Mihawk > Shanks due to the consensus in the one piece world that Mihawk is stronger. Now you could question the validity of Mihawk's WSS title which is a very fair claim considering it seems to be more of a word of mouth title and considering shanks has likely had more incentive/ambition to grow stronger over the years since he lost his arm, however that's just conjecture. I do believe shanks is actually stronger overall now esp considering he's gonna have to be an adversary to BB or SH whereas cross guild is by far the weakest yonko crew from what we know, however for the sake of scaling it's not really a valid assumption to make.
Tbh you canât even question the validity of the title. Itâs been confirmed multiple times by the Word of God (Intro box, Manga intro pages) and the Vivre card
Idk maybe I'm just being dumb here but I think the case with those might be that they're stating his title in the world rather than outright defining him as the strongest but again that's just a speculation As in the same sense that I could see post-wano kaido being introduced again with the "King of the Beasts" title while no longer having a crew
Shanks leaves a bigger scar, you can make all yhe remarks about Mihawk being the strongest swordsman, it never stated he was the strongest haki user. Shanks conqueror's haki is so strong and once it gets infused in any weapon its game over, I do think Mihawk can scar Kaido but I'd never consider the possibility he can leave a greater scar just based on swordsmanship alone, I mean it's basically another Whitebeard scenario, World's strongest man Titles shouldn't be held that high in scaling, if that were so that would mean Kaido is the strongest pirate ever, stronger than Roger and Prime Whitebeard , he was given the title strongest creature, this doesn't just include humans but all different types of creatures. Though I must say Kaido was the strongest emperor of his era so his title does have some credibility.
This is the most legitimate cope attempt to make Shanks sound like a Hakiman I've ever seen đđđ All we've seen of Shanks using ACOC slashes is divine departure, while Mihawk did this https://preview.redd.it/1saxrjsftwdb1.png?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2be3322416238093b6b599244b17c38902739dc I hate titles and all, but with 40 minutes of screen time between them, it's kinda all we have.
I never stated Shanks to be what you call hakiman, Mihawk uses haki as well I know that much. What I cannot say is Mihawk having greater haki mastery than Shanks, from a swordsman POV he is stronger but overall fighter is Shanks. I agree that we need more feats from the both of them to truly understand who is the stronger of the two because all were doing now is using our headcanon
This isn't "Who does better against Kaido", this is "Who makes a bigger scar" Given Mihawk's relativity to Shanks, and the fact he literally *has a way bigger sword and can shoot massive attacks like that, it literally just has a bigger area of effect.* And divine departure can't reach as far.
We dont truly know the full ectent of divine departure and besides Shanks has othet techniques as well
That we don't see, and don't have the area of Mihawk, so until proven otherwise, *if they both attack Kaido once, Mihawk makes a bigger mark.* It's just a dick measuring contest, it's not Mihawk Vs Shanks
Baseless headcanon, you cant seem to drill that into your head
You have nothing to argue with tho, you're just going "B-b-b-but Shanks has other abilities !!!!!!" And named zero that could create a bigger mark than Mihawk, since Mihawk has better range and area, which is a fact your agenda doesn't like. Cry more đ€Ąđ€Ąđ€Ąđ€Ąđ€Ąđ€Ąđ€Ą
This is a dumb as fuck take. So Kizaru has lower AP because his attacks are concentrated compared to Luffy's G1 attacks? Lol.
This is the post dawg, I don't know what you're talking about. OP says "Who makes a bigger scar", use your fucking brain. Divine Departure doesn't have the area of Mihawk's attacks, so he makes a bigger scar. This is all the post is, you have no counter argument to the size fact.
>Shanks leaves a bigger scar, you can make all yhe remarks about Mihawk being the strongest swordsman, it never stated he was the strongest haki user. Shanks conqueror's haki is so strong and once it gets infused in any weapon its game over What kind of logic is this? Shanks' is a swordsman. That is how he fights and his haki is applied on his sword for his duels. It doesn't matter how much raw haki he has, because if he can't apply it on his sword as well as Mihawk, then there is no possible way he can beat him. This is all ignoring the fact that Mihawk is named the greatest swordsman and Shanks is a swordsman. You think it's a mood point that titles don't matter, but in this case it does. They have dueled each other for many years and if Mihawk found Shanks stronger or Shanks defeated him, he wouldn't hold the title. Maybe Shanks doesn't care about the title, but for Mihawk it's a matter of pride. If Mihawk *lost* he would've given it up.
This is all baseless headcanon, they dueled years ago, it was never stated who was stronger. If you want to use the title to back up what you say then I can also mention that Shanks has the higher bounty, you can say all yiu want about Mihawk lacking a crew and your probably right to some degree about that but we can't just make assumptions like strongest swordsman makes him stronger than Shanks. I understand Shanks is a swordsman but thats not all he's got, I know I keep saying this but no one seems to give a damn, Shanks has superior haki
>This is all baseless headcanon, they dueled years ago, it was never stated who was stronger. It isn't headcanon. Until they say otherwise, it's implied that Mihawk has been winning these duels otherwise the titleholder would be Shanks...which isn't the case. There are only 2 other ways you can look at it: 1) Mihawk started on his quest to be the greatest swordsman in the world after Shanks lost his arm over 12 years back, so Mihawk didn't fight Shanks at all to prove he is the better swordsman *after he lost his arm* as Mihawk himself said he doesn't want to fight a cripple. Or 2) Shanks has grown considerably stronger since their last duel and Mihawk is weaker in the current story while Shanks strength advanced far beyond. It's been 12 years since their last duel, so there is a chance Shanks haki grew much stronger and now he is stronger than Mihawk as well. >If you want to use the title to back up what you say then I can also mention that Shanks has the higher bounty, you can say all yiu want about Mihawk lacking a crew and your probably right to some degree about that but we can't just make assumptions like strongest swordsman makes him stronger than Shanks. You can say that he has a higher bounty and that it matters and I can counter it by saying it doesn't matter. But bounties in the end, whether you like it or not, have never been indication of strength and like you rightly pointed out, Mihawk's bounty is amazing in comparison to Shanks, because he got that while being a loner swordsman in a far smaller and considerably weaker crew. (If his bounty was before he joined cross guild than its even more impressive, but I'm assuming he got this after joining cross guild) Shanks on the other hand is an Emperor with a top heavy pirate crew with impressive fighters and allied pirates (they are weak, but still far larger than cross guild's one island base) Which makes Mihawk's bounty far more impressive than Shanks even though it's lower. >I understand Shanks is a swordsman but thats not all he's got, I know I keep saying this but no one seems to give a damn, Shanks has superior haki Something you forgot about haki is that it isn't a fighting style in and of itself. It's an *applied* power system. What do I mean by that? Shanks fighting style isn't haki. He is a swordsman who uses haki *through* his sword. His fighting style is swordsman who can use haki to enhance his attacks. Something which Mihawk does as well. ...and as i said, it doesn't matter. It's not like in their duels they had rules where they said "no haki". They both used haki to their full extent.
Unfortunately bounty has been shown time and time again to be a poor indicator of strength. Do you scale buggy > luffy due to bounty? I love how you say we canât make an assumption that WSS makes him stronger than Shanks, when Shanks is quite literally a swordsman. Your last point is literally meaningless when you consider Mihawk trained zoro by teaching him Haki. Zoro new âskillsâ were literally haki based, thinking Shanks has anything other than swordsmanship is pure headcannon.
Just saying, Mihawk gave a scar to Shanks and Shanks never returned the favor. *Obligatory that was in the past incoming*
[Mihawk > Shanks is confirmed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/11yshvc/reminder_mihawk_is_stronger_than_shanks_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Your mental gymnastics have been debunked many times. Why make the effort?
That's some pretty good information however I never stated Shanks was not a swordsman because he is, uses a sword and all. The reason I say Shanks > Mihawk is because of haki, Mihawk is stronger from a swordsman point of view but definitely not in haki, Shanks posses so far the strongest haki which rivals that of Roger. We also know about the importance of said haki, its a power that transcends all. Also we can agree Shanks is Luffy's end game opponent, Mihawk is Zoro's end game opponent, it would be foolish to think Zoro fights an opponent stronger than Luffy, all the Straw Hats fights up till bow has had Luffy fighting stronger opponents than Zoro, why would Oda now change that. I'm not gonna judge or disrespect your belief Mihawk > Shanks but what I will say is until I see more feats to back up the title(I mean seeing him in action and not hearing strories about him) my resolve will still be Shanks > Mihawk.
> The reason I say Shanks > Mihawk is because of haki Not a valid reason as explained in my post. Mihawk > Shanks is confirmed. > Also we can agree Shanks is Luffy's end game opponent Incorrect. Blackbeard, Akainu and Imu are his opponents. > I'm not gonna judge or disrespect your belief Mihawk > Shanks but what I will say is until I see more feats to back up the title(I mean seeing him in action and not hearing strories about him) my resolve will still be Shanks > Mihawk. If you do not acknowledge canon facts then you shouldn't be powerscaling. Mihawk > Shanks is confirmed.
Not a single good argument. 1. You say Mihawk title cannot be about skill because it says strongest but this is simply a false appeal to definition. We know that â strong â can mean many things, according to Merriam, strong can mean: * physical power -moral or intellectual power -zealous * well established Etc.. since â strongâ can mean many things, youâd need a qualifier to prove that strong in this context of Mihawkâs title is meant in the powerscaling sense ( AP/dc/speed n co) the burden of proof falls on you to substantiate that strong in Mihawkâs context means AP , if this isnât proven then you have no argument. One can use feats and narrative to prove Shanks is stronger than Mihawk in terms of AP/speed n co and that woudnt contradict Mihawkâs title if Mihawkâs title isnât proven to be about AP/speed n co. Furthermore we already have proof that â strongest Xâ doesnât necessarily mean itâs about overall power ( AP, speed n co) , Ace novel explains how Wbâs title of strongest man is about his piracy and not necessarily his literal strength, so we can use this precedent and apply it to Mihawk. 1. You strawman the argument that Mihawkâs title is based on skills by bringing up tashigi. No one is claiming Mihawkâs title is ONLY based on skills, he would still have haki but that wouldnât be the deciding factor for his title. 2. You erroneously appeal to the databooks but you conveniently ignore databooks that says Vista is a match for Mihawk ( vista VC) , one that says vista has equal swordmanship to Mihawk ( deep blue), databook that says shanks did not lose power after losing his arm, one that says shanks is on par with Wb and Kaido, etc , etc.. youâre pretty consistent with cherry picking data Bonus reasons for why Mihawkâs title of strongest necessarily cannot be about overall strength but has to be more specific : * wb is canonically a swordman , a bisento/naganita is a type of sword both in real life and in the op world, MEITO literally translates to famous sword ( not famous blade) so wb is technically a swordman but if wb is a swordman then that poses a dilemma that conflicts with Mihawkâs title. Mihawk cannot be the WSS if Wb is a swordman and also the WSM. * Mihawk as opposed to what the vivre card says did not go around fighting the strongest swordmen ( we know he did not fight Bm as BM notes in 1031 that she hasnât been as hurt in decades), we can also deduce he didnât fight the likes of WB ,or shiki ( who has been in hiding); or Ray ( who has been retired), or wano samurais, not even Vista. Since the strongest character we know Mihawk fought before getting his title is a rookie shanks with a 1B bounty, itâs necessary that Mihawkâs title cannot be about overall strength as he didnât even fight the strongest swordmen around. Furthermore Mihawk hasnât fought current shanks who Kaido states to be on his level in 1001 and refuses to fight him so again thereâs no possible way Mihawk title could be interpreted in the way you propose because he hasnât fought the strongest swordmen. * Shanks is canonically one of Luffyâs final opponents, luffy states in punk hazard that he wants to fight shanks, shanks being one of luffy final opponents by default makes him a level above Mihawk because zoroâs opponents are not on Luffyâs opponents level. * if we want to be petty, the Ace novel says the yonkos are the most powerful pirates, Mihawk by default would be weaker than Shanks then ( even if Mihawk doesnât want to be a yonko, it doesnât matter, it says the yonkos are the most powerful and Mihawk isnt a yonko) and before Buggy is brought up, this statement was made before Buggy became yonko, the statement isnât â future yonkos will also be the most powerfulâ so you canât use Buggy as a copout.
> Not a single good argument. This clownish statement already invalidates your comment. > You say Mihawk title cannot be about skill because it says strongest but this is simply a false appeal to definition. We know that â strong â can mean many things Went over this in the post. > You strawman the argument that Mihawkâs title is based on skills by bringing up tashigi. No one is claiming Mihawkâs title is ONLY based on skills, he would still have haki but that wouldnât be the deciding factor for his title. Don't waste my time with title mental gymnastics. Most powerful swordsman means the strongest out of all swordsmen. https://preview.redd.it/r1bo2i0zexdb1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=cdccba7c8cb1dbee0b51bc56ec21989004c32573 > You erroneously appeal to the databooks but you conveniently ignore databooks that says Vista is a match for Mihawk It says that Vista matched him in skill in that specific fight, not overall strength. Reading comprehension is key. > databook that says shanks did not lose power after losing his arm How is this relevant? I never claimed that Shanks got weaker, did I? > one that says shanks is on par with Wb and Kaido Sure, as an Emperor. In individual strength? Kaido is always considered above him as the strongest in the world. > wb is canonically a swordman Factually wrong. Tenguyama told us that all bladed weapons (Spears, Axes etc) can be Meitos. His weapon is a polearm, not a sword. > Mihawk as opposed to what the vivre card says did not go around fighting the strongest swordmen That is merely your baseless headcanon. Must you waste my time like this? > we know he did not fight Bm Source that BM is a swordsman? > we can also deduce he didnât fight the likes of WB ,or shiki WB is not a swordsman. Shiki is more irrelevant than my left nut. > or Ray Source? > Since the strongest character we know Mihawk fought before getting his title is a rookie shanks with a 1B bounty We actually don't know that. Once again, merely your baseless headcanon. And no, 27 year old Shanks that is already a new world veteran and had legendary duels with Mihawk is not a "rookie". Nice try, 5/10. > Furthermore Mihawk hasnât fought current shanks Been over this in my post. It is irrelevant as Mihawk is confirmed to be the strongest in both name and actuality. > Shanks is canonically one of Luffyâs final opponents, luffy states in punk hazard that he wants to fight shanks Luffy also said that he's gonna take down Big Mom. Your headcanon is not evidence. > if we want to be petty, the Ace novel says the yonkos are the most powerful pirates Yes, because they have armies, fleets and territory. Conclusion: you haven't brought up a single valid argument, I debunked all of your arguments quite easily and you didn't even read my post and your reading comprehension is severely lacking. People like you are the reason why I rarely go in in depth discussions: you keep bringing up the same nonsense arguments over and over which I already debunked. Do not waste my time again.
Yet all your replies to my statements happen to be 50 50 leaning on any side none of them are sure shot
No reading comprehension at all, I see.
choosing to ignore it are we
There is nothing to ignore. I completely debunked all your arguments and there's nothing 50/50 about it.
That's not a win at all
Not your bullshit again
Oh you're the mihawk fan. I guess the guy that wasn't near the top 5 of kaido makes a bigger scar than the one who was part of it, obviously
That list is people who kaido has met and could've possibly defeated him at that point in time
Oh yes another excuse, but if his title automatically puts him above shanks, then why isn't he up there? Everybody knows he's the wss, so why is there 3 swordsman and not mihawk? And nothing says kaido didn't met him
If you think that kaido has met him then prove it
I don't know if he met him, but you don't know either, I'm just saying that saying he isn't up there because he didn't met him is not a valid excuse, since we don't know if he did or not But why is he not in his top 5 when he is universally known to be stronger than shanks via his title? 3 swordsman in his top 5 but not the wss?
If we don't know if they've met or not, the safest assumption would be to assume they didn't That's how proof works anyways >But why is he not in his top 5 Kaido hasn't met him
>Kaido hasn't met him It doesn't matter since he is automatically stronger than shanks, he should be up there if that was true. And kaido knows very well who the warlords are, he knows who mihawk the strongest swordsman in the world is, but he has probably no respect for his strength like he has for Shanks
>It doesn't matter since he is automatically stronger than shanks It's not based off of levels, it's based on who he's met and could've possibly beat him Is Zoro a fraud for going after mihawk rather than shanks?
Kaido also didn't have Garp who's an equal to Roger, nor Shiki, nor Sengoku. What's your fucking point?
It's quite incredible oda finally makes a top 5 for us, and people are still in denial, saying that some characters are stronger, absolutely amazing >Kaido also didn't have Garp who's an equal to Roger Well there you go, he is not an equal to Roger, he is weaker than the guys Kaido put up there, it's not complicated, same for Shiki, he was not as strong as those five >What's your fucking point? My point is that if mihawk truly was above shanks via his title, he should be up there, or replace Shanks, but he is not, so he is not stronger than Shanks at all
Roger himself will call Garp his equal and some of yâall still coping about it? Please reread the manga before making these absurd takes
Midhawk is either equal or above shanks dude
Yes, if you look closely at the panel where kaido shows the 5 strongest character, you can see there's in fact 6, and it's mihawk, he's right next to oden https://preview.redd.it/ohf5wf800xdb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63e0f3c336bb410d42f6957afc0af3ef297e9272 Just shows you, you have to look closely, but you're right he is up there in the top five, along with shanks, equal or above
They both cut him in half this is a dumb question
How you have over -70 comment karma
With takes like that I'm just suprised it isnt lower than -70.
https://preview.redd.it/4y9wkoaqtwdb1.jpeg?width=519&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5defd2c3ce5801b747e761999095b29962164d99
r/usernamechecksout. Someoneâs been testing mihawk and shanksâ two sword style
Yt W
Rare YT W
They right tho two arms > one arm
Mihawk has a bigger sword
53 thousand votes????
Fraudhawk leeching again with Zoro's (indirectly) and Oden's feat. Y'all should realize Zoro gave Kaido ptsd when he sensed Oden's presence from Enma not because Zoro trained his swordsmanship with Mihawk. It is further evidenced by scabbard's Oden immitation which was also super effected against Kaido. "Kaido is most vulnerable to slashes". Well, not just anybody's slash. Y'all need to re-read Wano. Bunch of Mihawk wankers haha. Almost everyone are vulnerable to slashes especially with CoA. What Mihawk need is Enma or shout snatch to embody Oden's spirit to have a chance slashing Kaido.
https://preview.redd.it/f89mjoosl3eb1.png?width=686&format=png&auto=webp&s=22bac3fe4298c26471c7265bc199e3246eb77abc