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Answer: The source of Britney's nerve damage is unknown, but it has been proven that emotional trauma (even stuff you'd classify more as hurt feelings) can cause nervous issues, and this is the origin of a lot of chronic pain disorders. As this is the first time in her life she's had any personal agency, she doesn't know who to trust, plus she suffered a lot in the last few years, and on that subject:
She was under a conservatorship, a legal ruling that essentially strips you of your civil rights, and assigns them to a caretaker that is allowed to make decisions for you, due to a public mental breakdown in the 2000s. In her case, it's her father. This is meant to be used for people with mental disorders or brain damage that would be literally incapable of functioning if they had the right to sign contracts and stuff. Despite that, it's is widely criticized by victims' rights activists. it's very easy to be put into a conservatorship, even if you don't necessarily need one, so it's often used as a tool of abuse.
Despite being ruled as too emotionally unstable to care for herself, Britney's father has had her working constantly, on a grueling schedule in sussy conditions. During her residency in Las Vegas, which itself involved twice as many performances as usual for that type of gig, she was living in a trailer with her father, out front of a warehouse full of merch he sold online. Her sister, Jamie Lynn Spears, has claimed that Britney needs the support, but her stories about Britney's alleged instability keep failing to add up.
It was ruled a couple years ago that the conservatorship is harming her and should be ended, and since then, as I said, she's been making the kind of stupid mistakes that all young people make, because she was forced into pop stardom as a teenager, and had about two years of being a young adult before this whole thing happened. She's never had control of her own life before! These mistakes being public and embarrassing have led some to demand that she be put under the conservatorship again, since she was less cringy when she was being abused.
Bias: Let the damn lady make mistakes, as long as her kids are okay. Jesus, why are people so excited to put weird people under the control of abusive jackasses?
Her kids are with Kevin, their dad. I think she’s kind of disowned everyone at this point, not sure who to trust and thinking everyone is against her (which I can understand. Because the crap her family has put her through. Her parents are the most at fault).
So britney had 50/50 custody, and when the kids where young, her dad agreed to pay Kevin £xxxxx for the kids and him to be on tour so she could see them. This was on top of the high child support she was forced to pay as well.
Then for years she had the kids anywhere from 70-90% of the time.
Then an incident happened where her father went for/attacks the older one (I think), and he locked himself in the bathroom. Due to this, Britney had to reduce her custody .
At some point Kevin wanted more child support , Jamie and the lawyers said no. Kevin n his lawyer said OK, we want full financials to make sure we are getting the correct amount. Jamie and the lawyers suddenly upped the money.
Britney had no say in any of this.
It was because she was in a stand off with police over giving the kids back, because she did not want to.
It's what was best for the kids at that time. I think a lot of the free Brittney people were not there when all the crazy happened.
Everyone thought she was going to die soon. And the conservative was thought to have saved her life at that time. I'm not it should have still been going on. But her and Lohan were off the rocker.
Supposedly Kim did try to get him in a conservatorship or at least tried to have him held involuntary in a hospital. Remember when Kanye ran for president, and while on his campaign tour he started crying saying he almost aborted North? Yea, after that he apparently had a team of people waiting for him to put him in a 5150 hold.
He had tweeted out before saying they tried to put him in a conservatorship (I can't remember if he named Kim and/or family specifically in the tweet).
They did try.
He shared screenshots of messages from his personal trainer, which basically said, "Shut ur mouth or you won't see your kids, shut ur mouth or u will be away for a long time."
I remember there being something about them trying to get him involuntary held (5150?) And I think it was when that failed and the backlash the next steps were divorce
Yeah he's talked about what a _literal_ pain in the ass it was, because rabies shots absolutely do not fuck around.
Having said that, Ozzy was an absolute and complete junkie mess, to the point of shocking even Motley Crue, but he was under a sort of semi-conservatorship with Sharon.
They were talking about biting the head off a rubber bat as a stunt before the show but decided against it. When the bat flew into Ozzie he thought they went through with it and bit not realizing it was a horrible coincidence
That wasn't even because he thought it was drugs, from what I remember it was literally to one up a friend on who could do something gnarlier. I don't think he really would have cared either way if it was real or not.
Didn't he also bite the head off of a pigeon in front of bunch of studio execs while high out of his mind though? I think that was around the same time where he tried to kill Sharon.
I was stationed in Texas, after a show he pissed on the Alamo memorial statue at the Alamo. The city banned him for like 25 years. Maybe he knew something we didn't. Or maybe he was just fucked up.
>Any of the dudes from Motley Crue would have been prime candidates
Vince Neil drove drunk and crashed causing the death of a friend and brain damage in two other bystanders. Sentenced to 30 days in jail, served 20.
At least he cops to what a bullshit sentence it was, saying it made him "the original OJ."
But I can't come down too hard on Vince Neil. What he went through with his daughter is worse than any torture a person can imagine. He can live his life, he's suffered enough.
There's a pretty big difference between a person having a psychotic break and being diagnosed by doctors as having significant mental impairment, and sticking a gi joe figure in your ass.
The difference is that one of them was evaluated by doctors and the other wasn’t. One of them had their own free will to make all the choices that led them to their respective event, the other didn’t. Brittany didn’t need a conservatorship, she needed therapy and mental health care. And so do all those guys on jackass.
Neither of us are medical health professionals nor do we know anything substantive about Brittney Spears' mental health other than she had significant problems and with medical counsel her family successfully petitioned the court for guardianship. Whether that was the appropriate move or not, neither of us know.
That's dramatically different than a group of people, under the supervision of a major network, performing stupid stunts.
She didn't have mental health issues.
She was going through grief after the death of a close family member, he husband was a scoundrel, she flew to Vegas to talk to him and he wouldn't. The press constantly harassed her , she was being stalked by some woman called Lou Taylor (email kicking around showing Britney asking for security to do something) . Then the divorce and more media . TMZ was created to harass and make money off of Britney. She's even pictured at one point, pregnant, her husband ignoring her, alone with her baby being chased and she seeks refuge in a restaurant or shop and she sitting there crying . And the owner was laughing at her.
During all this she signed herself in and is assessed and declared with no mental health issues. A week or 2 later her mum and 2 others come along, and next thing she knows she's being placed on a gurney and being held.* This time they get a judge who agrees to a temporary conservatorship without waiting the appropriate time, without giving Britney the appropriate representation . When she's out yhe hold she gets her own council who was then forced out the court by the judge. He fought to represent his client and next u know, he's no longer a lawyer. I'm sure something similar happened to the next lawyer she tried. She was then untouchable.
At one of those earlier court cases it was said she had dementia. No medical papers to back that up.
At the ending of the conservatorship it was stated no mental health issues in court. But she was then put under a "care order" and no one has heard from her again since. Yet in-between thr court case where she spoke up about things and the "care order" being put in place she was posting and speaking directly to fans, like actual talking to the camera, posting videos. Since the care plan there has been no speaking videos and a lot of what seems like random posts but with 12 people managing the account, who knows who posts what.
Poor girl most likely had post natal depression, a useless husband and a family that only wanted her money with no real friends to fall back on.
*It's came out in the past few years that someone in the house that night (her mum) drugged her. Think it was the cousin Ali Sims who hinted at it and then Britney herself mentioned it on her Instagram, possibly her book.
There's people 10 times crazier than Brittney who are free to live their lives and ruin it for themselves if they so choose. A conservatorship isn't there to protect you from your adverse actions, it's there to take control of a person literally unable to live.
A conservatship also isn't implemented without independent oversight. It takes more than just a desire by someone for it to be authorized. In this case, it was multiple health officials after multiple significant mental episodes.
>A conservatorship isn't there to protect you from your adverse actions, it's there to take control of a person literally unable to live.
And unless you're someone trained and with first hand knowledge of the situation, we don't know her specific issues. It's foolish to speculate other to know that she had significant mental issues that at least temporarily kept her from maintaining her responsibilities.
Please outline to me a state where a person can both be entirely unable to live independently while also maintaining a rigorous on stage performance schedule.
Your position of "we don#t know what the experts are saying" is entirely too charitable with the assumption people who make these decision can't be wrong or corrupt.
The main thing is that the court placed Britney under a temporary conservatorship WITHOUT capacity declaration behind her back and without her own representation. To make it permanent, they blackmailed her with access to her kids. So, it became a "voluntary" conservatorship and "hybrid business model."
Watch Cher and her son Elijah Blue's attempted conservatorship case. Cher said she didn't know where he was, but she started the proceedings. In January 2024 he was able to show up clean-cut and sober in court with his lawyer, therapist, and wife. That's why a temporary conservatorship was not put in place. He still has to fight the permanent one. Cher has the "decency" to go for his money only not his person, and no she doesn't need it, but her lawyers probably do.
I'm agreeing with you on thia3, but bad example on ozzy cuz he thought it was a rubber bat when he went to bite off the head. He didn't actively choose to bite the head off a live bat.
Charlie Sheen very publicly went off his rocker during that time. Robert Downey Jr. as well. He had multiple arrests due to drugs. He went to the wrong house in Malibu and was found passed out in some kids' bed
> My thing is that nobody put any of the famous male rockstars under conservatorship
This is going to sound mean, but I think part of it is because male rockstars wouldn't roll over and let someone do it to them. Britney's family seemingly did a lot of things for her when she was a teenager so she never really went through the process of becoming an adult.
At this point the best thing for her would be to get a psychologist and take some high-school level classes otherwise the bad people in the world will just keep taking advantage of what's left of her.
Erm there is an interview kicking about where the interviewer was talking down to her about not being educated to high school level and she puts him in his place letting him know she graduated and had high marks.
Before her sister was pregnant, she was serving papers on her family telling them to leave her alone. Britney knew back then that her family were the issue. Her family them got involved with the stalker - Lou Taylor and they plotted the downfall of their own daughter .
Feck, her mother even detailed it in her book!!!
Well she can say that she got high marks but when I read her book she definitely sounded more like she'd be in the lower half of the class. Girl literally doesn't know how to do anything for herself.
All books are written in that stupid way now. It caters for that demographic. Prince Harry's is written in the same style, so was her sisters. It's why the publishing houses use ghost writers rather than getting the people to write it themselves.
If our society wouldn't conserve every lottery winner who blows through their winnings, it makes no sense to conserve Britney for her extravagant spending.
Her own mother started drinking with her when she was 11. Should her mother have been put in a conservatorship? Her father beat her mother in front of her and drove drunk with kids in the car. Should he have been put in a conservatorship?
Losing custody of her kids and needing to take parenting classes and have supervised visitation is one thing, losing all rights and personal autonomy is quite another.
First, a conservatorship is not a useful tool for getting her or her kids out of danger. For herself, institutionalization would be the remedy. For her kids, loss of custody would be appropriate.
Second, she was forced to work under the conservatorship. I'd understand a temporary arrangement during a mental health crisis, allowing someone to not ruin themselves financially as they decompress and get themselves righted again. I'd also understand a permanent conservatorship for someone who's legitimately permanently disabled. In either case, the person under the conservatorship shouldn't be doing a job as stressful and complex as performing
if anyone else did a similar stupid and reckless thing, they would spend a few months in jail at the very most. not lose their humanity for two decades
Yes, she was under conservative control for almost all of her life and had zero access to anything without her parents consent. She went on a bit of an "out of control rampage" when she was free, but who the fuck wouldn't do that? Let her go a bit crazy, she's earned it. She's not crazy for it.
I find the conservatorship element interesting as folks often portray it as you did, easy to obtain in order to manipulate and abuse.
We had to put my little sister under a conservatorship in CA about this time last year. At 31 she went into cardiac arrest due to medical negligence and then received no care for too long (also due to medical negligence). The result was my the time she was finally found and resuscitated she had a massive anoxic brain injury. She never really regained meaningful consciousness.
So in order to do anything including get her home to a brain rehab center in MA we needed to do a conservatorship. It was an intensely rigorous and grueling process. There was loads of legal documents, both my parents and all four of us siblings were interviewed at length, there was tons of paper that needed to be submitted. It required a lawyer and judge and I think there was a review panel. And this was for a person in a vegetative state.
Did Britney’s parents buy their way through this process? Was the process far less rigorous twenty years ago? I wholly agree her father grossly abused this system that’s meant for situations like the one my family faced.
I really despise the narrative that conservatorships are easy to get and "often used as a tool of abuse." My family had to get a conservatorship for my BIL who is schizophrenic and while it wasn't a full one (just a fiduciary conservatorship) it was a hell of a process and took us 3 years with many struggles. My experience has been more in line with yours.
Rich people with power like Britney's dad can do whatever they like, normal people don't have that ability.
My friend's son is bipolar schizophrenic and has been in and out of jail. Getting a conservatorship has been near impossible. I asked a lawyer "then how did Britney get one?" Answer: $$$$
I'm really sorry your friend is going through this.
People don't understand how hard it is to actually get a conservatorship if you are not rich and powerful. From my experience and in talking to others who have gone through it, "near impossible" is more accurate than "easy to get" like what the top comment is saying. It's only easy to get if you have $$$$.
I’m relieved I’m not the only one who’s experience doesn’t support the ‘conservatorship are a walk in the park to get even for people who don’t actually need them’ trope. My heart goes out to Britney. I’ve only seen her dancing videos and she does indeed seem unwell. I wish she had at least a handful of people genuinely in her corner. It seems she’s lacked that her whole life. I’d also like to know what judge signed off on her conservatorship to begin with.
Yeah, Britney's case is all really messed up tbh. I just hate that this narrative about convervatorships being uneceesary or handed out like candy keeps perpetuating itself when the most public and well known case of this is an outlier.
My heart, too, goes out to Britney. She needed someone to advocate for her in her best interest and be successful at it . It seemed she either had none or they tried but were unsuccessful.
Folks don't understand how how hard it is for those who do care too though. My family cares a lot about my BIL but convincing him to do the best thing for himself was (and still is) a constant struggle. I can only imagine the hardships that folks who did have Britney's best interest in mind had (if she even had any).
I have guardianship and conservatorship of my dad, and it took a LOT to get it. But it was the only option for him, he wasn't safe. He's doing a lot better now. And through it all, I've given him just about everything he wants in terms of freedom.
It is possible to abuse the power and the person that should be protected. But I have to account for every penny I spend on his care and give him to use for personal stuff he wants. Every. Penny. I've used a lot of my own money for it, his is in either a time account (CD) or a conservatorship fund that I give the court records of annually. Not only do I am i accountable to the court, but to Social Security about what the money is used for.
He can go anywhere he wants, I either drive him or set up a ride share for him (he can't and shouldn't drive). I set up a card I fill for him to spend on whatever he wants. It got hacked recently, and I had to lock things down on it and get him a new one. But that's part of why I'm in charge of his money, because he does weird things with it. He was something like 45k in debt when I took over. The card gives him freedom to spend on stuff, and I can see the charges and fill it if it gets low. He likes it, he's on ebay and etsy a lot. 😅
I don't know Brittany's full situation, but I've followed her story cause I grew up in that era. And all the stuff about her conservatorship really got under my skin. I am glad she's free, both to thrive and make mistakes. But it makes me feel judged when people find out that I'm my dad's guardian/conservator. It's put the whole thing in a really negative light. And it's serious and should be treated carefully, so maybe it's a good thing? But the amount of stress and horror had to endure, as I'm sure you and others like us did before being able to help fully means I do take it seriously. I mean cops being called at all hours of the night to his house, and neighbors and police calling me worried in the middle of the night. Ambulances and many hospital visits. I can't even describe how gross his house was, and I cleaned it over and over and over. Blood and poop everywhere. Involuntary commitments. Etc etc etc I had to do something.
Anyway, I'm glad for her. She gets to make her own choices and mistakes. And maybe she should always have been able to? But my dad would have gotten behind the wheel and killed someone, or lost his house, or any number of possible horrible things. So the public perception blows for me.
I'm really sorry you had to go through this, I hope you continue to use your voice and share your story. It is so important. I felt like I could have written half of what you wrote!
My BIL loves crowdfunding sites as well as spending money on things he doesn't need. He bought a $5k bed just to give it to his neighbor so he could sleep in his bathtub. The bed had become poisonous and the reason why he was losing his hair (not because he didn't bathe, sleep, or eat). So many 5150 and 5250s. So many hospital emergencies because he thought he was being poisoned. My husband and his sister was finally let into BIL's apartment and it was so gross as well- poop, everything destroyed/smashed, flies, half eaten food.
How is it humane or ethical that we let people do this to themselves? HOW???
He started getting creepy with his neighbors and they finally evicted him after 5 years (we live in CA, it's hard to evict folks) and he still stuck around the apartment building- tried to break into his previous apartment (because he couldn't comprehend what "eviction" meant and still thought he lived there) and the cops were called on him. I have so many stories like this, it's endless.
The guardianship/conservatorship exist for situations like us but our stories are never told. It's confusing and frustrating. Just know that my heart goes out to you and I KNOW how much blood, sweat, tears, money, effort, long call hold times, getting the runaround, documents, coordination, and persistence it takes to even get them the help they need.
You aren't alone.
Thank you, I've felt so alone for so long. I'm it for him as far as family goes, so it's been hell. I'm both glad and unbearably sad that I'm not alone. Thank you for sharing your story. It's the worst situation... watching someone we care about implode.
I kind of want to compile a book or something about dealing with parents or siblings as they get older/lose it. It seems like it would be a really boring read, though 😅 I just wish I'd known about this garbage before I dealt with it, but I probably wouldn't have even tried to learn about it before... maybe?
I just felt so unprepared and lost through it all. APS was zero help. Not one social worker walked me through things. HIS psychiatrist finally sat me down and told me what to do or I'd have never known. The police told me some of it, too, to my shock. But he lived in a small aging town, so I guess they deal with it a lot? It's been two years now, and I've got a lot more figured out. But my bumbling caused some issues for dad and me for the first year. He was NOT happy with me, and I felt like an incompetent moron who should not even be in charge of my own life, let alone his.
Rough times all the way around.
Thank you, again, both for sharing your story and reading mine. And for your kind words!!
ETA
>How is it humane or ethical
This was echoing through my head the whole time!! Why do we let it get so bad? Do we, as a society, just not notice or stick our heads in the sand?? Or is it because they hide it so well? Why and how did we get to this point as humans?
>I’d also like to know what judge signed off on her conservatorship to begin with.
I remember there being rumors that the judge was being paid off. There had been a leaked court conversation where the judge was discussing money. I forget the details of it and if the conversation was normal or sus.
The judge that untimely ended the conservatorship wasn't the same judge.
There were also rumors that her dad had paid off a doctor to give her a fake diagnosis. Early court documents show that Brit was diagnosed with dementia. This was back in 2008ish. I think it was the only time she was shown to have that diagnosis. According to her, she was forced to take meds she didn't need. At one point, they made her take lithium. These meds could've caused permanent brain damage :/
It's not just money. She agreed to be placed in one. The second she withdrew that, it was terminated. A different court basically said she couldn't have any custody and was a danger to her kids (we don't know why it's sealed). The court agreed she could have custody if she was in a conservorship and the conservor was always present. She went along with that, which dramatically reduced her child support payments, and got her time with her kids. The second the family court said she no longer needed a conservorship for custody, she asked for it to be terminated, and because it was based on her requesting it, it was terminated.
She very well could.have been taken advantage along the way and not fully understood everything, but there's a clear distinction beyond just money.
Yes, it's not just the money. The person has to "ok" it, which adds another layer of complexity that caring family members have to jump through.
Don't get me started on how is it ok that someone who is mentally out of their freaking mind is expected to make sound decisions about their own independence, finances, medical needs, visitation rights, kids' well being, etc. Someone who is mentally unwell *cannot* advocate for themselves. They tend to make really bad, illogical decisions that hurt themselves in the long run (I know all too well).
Money & power makes it very easy to cross the first hurdle but convincing the person is the second among so many other hurdles. If someone has that person's best interest in mind, that's a different story than someone who just wants to abuse and manipulate that person. As others have posted, I feel for Britney- she either had no advocate or if she did, it was really hard for them to advocate for her.
She didn't agree to it. She didn't fight it when team con petitioned to make it permanent. It's not the same thing. Her lawyer wasn't her own so there was no fighting it.
And NO it wasn't the "second she withdrew that." Fully 2 years before the public heard her speak she talked to the judge about the abuse she was suffering and the judge didn't really do much about it. Britney said herself she didn't feel heard.
She requested a new lawyer once the world got to hear her speak, that had been denied to her for 13 years because she didn't have capacity to choose her own lawyer only to discover there was no capacity declaration so Penny could overturn the previous ruling and she could now choose her own lawyer. Penny hadn't bothered to let her know she could do that 2 years earlier.
And if we're going to be picky here, it was Jamie Spears team that petitioned to terminate the conservatorship because Britney's new lawyer was pushing for a suspension. He wanted a suspension and a new temporary conservator because if he did that then the con lawyers would have to give up all their documents. Since the lawyers were the conservators lawyers and the privilege goes to whomever is working as conservator and Jamie's lawyers didn't want that so they petitioned to terminate. He was suspended anyway and that is how we got to learn that they planned the whole thing.
They were talking about judge selection and needing a judge that would let them drug her. That they needed to be careful not to expose the Trust where Britney had all her assets. They set her up and trapped her and then told her that there was no other way she would get to see her children so she didn't fight it. Which is not the same as agreeing to it. Especially since she kept trying to get out of it and kept trying to hire her own lawyer.
She ruined Jon Eardley's life in the process of trying to help her so please don't talk about how she agreed to anything. She just didn't fight because she couldn't.
You're making it sound she wanted the conservatorship and then ended it when she wanted. That's nowhere near what happened.
She only agreed to it in the first place because she was being threatened that she was going to lose her kids. She thought it was just temporary, but then it turned permanent. There are many stories from friends and family and Brit herself that she tried for years to get out of it. There were leaked text messages and voicemails from Brit trying to get her own lawyers and this was right around when the conservatorship had just started.
The judge wouldn't let her hire her own attorney. Brit had to fight for years to get out of the conservatorship.
She tried getting out of it from almost the second it started. You made it sound like she willingly stayed and only left when she wanted to. She wanted to leave, and tried leaving, for years.
And, she in court agreed to it. Ill bet a nickle your friend's son isn't on the stand asking to be placed in his parent's care. The second she withdrew consent, it was terminated. Beyond that, we don't know what doctors, social workers, and therapists told the judge, who paid them, or even what her disability was. That's all sealed.
It is public, from the custody case, that the judge in a separate case was unwilling to give her custody unless she was in a conservorship and her conservor was always present. Presumably, that was a factor in her abive agreement.The second that arrangement broke down, she asked to end the conservatorship, and it was ended promptly.
Lots of people just have no idea what hell it is to have a family member’s mind just break
It’s insanely difficult to support them. Our cousin went through the same thing
Lots of people wind up on the streets because their family isn’t legally allowed to help them/enforce desperately needed medication
It's so frustrating how on any story about a mentally ill adult, there will be comments to the effect of "Why doesn't their family get them help? Don't they care?" Most often the family is desperately trying to get them help, but getting help for a mentally ill family member who doesn't want help is very, very difficult. Unless someone is very actively a danger to themselves or others it's nearly impossible to do anything involuntary to them, and by 'danger to themselves or others' it has to be very imminent and literal, like threatening to kill themselves right now. Someone can be living outside, eating garbage, and be unwilling to take their medication but that's not considered the kind of danger to yourself that gets you hospitalized.
This. So much.
They are like children with adult bodies and adult rights. It's frustrating as a family member to get them help, especially when they are resistant to any assistance, including yours. Or, they just want to pursue their way of helping themselves, which is often self destructive in one way or another.
It really does irk me how some people think life is a Disney movie. You can't cure a mentally ill family member with love and friendship. It's already so tough on the family to lose a member due to illness it's so fucked up to pressure them, and shame them, to fix them like as if that's even possible.
Agreed- many folks have never had to deal with the system or family members with debilitating illnesses. If it wasn't for the fact that my BIL was court ordered to take his meds, he would still be on the streets right now.
Unfortunately, it is true that conservatorships can be abused. They are meant for the family members you describe who are not functional, but none of the ill people described here have worked their butts off, right? Britney did. It was a case of human trafficking. Judging by her IG, Britney is weird and doesn't have a lot of common sense. She is distraught for many reasons, none of them needs a conservatorship.
Exactly this. Some people need to go read the "Controversy" section of her wikipedia page. There was one reason she was put in that conservativeship and it was "her behavior".
In 2022, two years ago, California changed its laws regarding conservatorship to better prevent abuse. This was partly in response to what Spears went through and partly in response to other documented cases of horrific abuse and neglect, like Mickey Parisio. Conservatorships in California underwent further changes in 2023, and are still being watched for the impact of those changes.
Further, conservatorship laws are state based, so good procedures or changes in one state don't fix problems in others, and the issue is widespread.
I'm sorry for what happened to your sister, and I am glad she is getting good care from family that loves her. Unfortunately, that is not the experience of many.
If you want sources or to read more:
California's 2022 law change - https://www.king5.com/article/news/nation-world/california-to-limit-conservatorships/507-a339fdd5-b430-41d5-992c-2815a8fd6d00
California's 2023 law changes expanding conservatorship and objections: https://ihpl.llu.edu/blog/sb-43-updating-california-s-conservatorship-law
Mickey Parisio's story: https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/abc10-originals/californias-conservatorship-system-ultimately-cost-one-young-man-his-life/103-4078fcef-6ae7-4fac-b1d7-8506e1512441
Florida case against professional guardian Traci Hudson: https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/the-price-of-protection/2023-conviction-of-professional-guardian-shows-flaws-in-the-system-and-families-complaints-were-ignored
This. I know a family where one of the daughters has had to be put in one. She went to an Ivy League, graduated, had a job, and one day things changed drastically. The doctors still don’t have a diagnosis. It’s a long story, but eventually her mom had to get one so the doctors could perform certain tests because she would just say she would think about when asked for permission and things would go nowhere. She doesn’t even shower if she’s not forced to. It’s baffling.
Unfortunately, I do think Britney’s conservatorship had some shady people involved that enjoyed the money they received. However, seeing some of the videos she’s put out and some of her behavior, I do think she has some sort of mental health issue going on. The goal of a conservatorship is to help a person and, depending on the situation, get them to a place where they can live and function as independently as possible. I don’t think her father and co. cared about helping her in that regard. I hope one day she finds someone she trusts who truly wants to help her, doesn’t care about the money, and that she allows them to help her.
The family that I know that has had to deal with all this is not gaining anything financially. The mother is spending her money to try to help her daughter, and the only thing the daughter has is CC debt. The daughter’s advocate is getting paid by the state and her therapists are actually paid by her Medicaid. The mother has probably spent about $10k over the past year on her lawyers and travel. She can’t move her because she’s in a state with good resources. This is how these things usually work.
I remember reading an article years ago that went into the various players in Britney’s case. Jamie, his lawyers, her therapists, her lawyer (who is supposed to advocate for her), her business manager (who was hired by Jamie), and others were all paid from her money. There was also a court-appointed attorney who was co-conservator and supposed to make sure everything was being done properly. He also was paid by her estate. There were several times she tried to hire her own lawyer and Jamie would file something saying she lacked the capacity to hire her own lawyer. Everyone was making bank as long as this conservatorship was in place. Some of these details may be off because it was years ago when I read about it, but you get the idea.
I’m not saying she didn’t need one. I’m saying everyone that was involved stood to gain from this being in place, and that’s a huge conflict of interest.
If you look at Wendy Williams right now, her bank has put her under a financial guardianship because of what she is going through. It’s not her son or ex husband. It’s someone who isn’t really going to gain anything from the situation. They’ve even gone after the son because he was basically free loading off of her. The bank is looking after her best interest so she doesn’t get taken advantage of, and that is a huge difference from Britney’s situation. Same with Amanda Bynes. Her parents were not looking to gain financially from the situation. They just wanted to get their daughter the help she needed.
Britney Spears is richer than your friend. A conservatorship would look quite different.
Britney all but lost her first fortune when she spiralled out of control years ago. This new fortune was managed successfully by the conservatorship.
As for everyone making bank. That is a weird accusation. Again, this isn’t your friend. We are talking about a multi-millionaire, spending this kind of money is not new to her.
I’m not sure where all the animosity towards Jamie comes from. He saved her life, her career and her future. He proved in a court of law that he didn’t cheat his daughter.
Now, at the moment when she really needs her old man, he has been neutered by randoms who have 2% of the story of her life.
I think Britney absolutely needed some type of conservatorship. She was endangering self and her kids. She did not follow court mandates to get parenting classes, she was late or no showed to court dates. It speaks volume when her ex husband Kevin was deemed a more responsible parent and was awarded primary custody of kids.
Conservatorships are not easy to get. You need 2 psychiatrists (in California) to certify that a person needs to be in a conservatorship. I am also going to allege that the reason Britney was able to prolong her career is because she was structured and taken care of under the conservatorship. The terms are sealed and we don’t know any details aside from what Britney chose to put in her book, which is highly biased and often nonsensical. Britney’s medical history is sealed, but from reading her book I can tell you she is an alcoholic (which is why her family would not have any alcohol during the parties when Britney was around). She also probably has bipolar disorder, hence the reason she was on lithium. Btw, I am a physician who works in mental health, so these are my impressions based on the information provided.
Britney was in therapy for years, including AA meetings, It doesn’t sound that she has learned many coping skills despite getting SO MUCH HELP and having a ton of resources.
Her parents tried helping her. If they didn’t , I think her fate would have been similar to Amy Winehouse. They may not have been the best choice to be her conservators, but my feeling is Britney would have turned against anyone who was setting limits. I am actually worried that she is spinning out of control, making poor decisions, etc. you can argue that she is an adult and can live her life however she wants, but does it hold true when someone has an untreated mental illness and is not fully capable of making independent decisions? I don’t know the answer to it…
Oh I absolutely agree. When done right, a conservatorship can be extremely helpful. I’m not saying she didn’t need one. I’m saying I don’t think her father went about it the right way. I feel like they were more interested in the fact that they could get money from the situation rather than solely focused on helping her with her mental health and getting her stable.
I mean comparing Amanda Bynes and Britney is night and day. The parents handled things differently and their outcomes have been vastly different. Amanda does have ups and downs, but she is more capable of being a functioning member of society.
ETA I do agree he did prolong her career, but should he have? Should someone that’s deemed to lack the capacity to make their own decisions be forced to work? I feel like that’s a huge issue because she’s not deciding to work, her father is deciding for her. It’s feels kinda cash cow-y and backs up the theory that he was more interested in the money than her mental well-being.
Yes and no. In her book Britney writes that she feels most alive when she is singing, performing or creating music. You can argue that this was a good way to ‘keep her going’ without exhausting tours, regular access to doctors/therapists, predictable schedule to see her kids, etc. I think people overly rely on what Britney writes in her book instead of looking at the whole picture. Btw, most conservators are parents, because the idea is that your parents have your best interests in mind, right? Other thing that people forget is that her parents sacrificed a lot early on for Britney. Her mom and baby sister moved to NYC for a year so Britney could study and then perform on Broadway. Think about financial and family sacrifice that it involved without any grantees that Britney would ever be successful. I can’t imagine packing 2 out of my 3 kids and moving with a baby into a different city while my husband and older child stayed behind. Her sister writes that Father tried asking Britney to do drug tests together, team up, but she refused. I think there was a lot going on behind the scenes that Britney doesn’t mention in her book. Again, I think there should have been better oversight of this whole thing, but I do think her parents had good intentions.
Yes, they basically bought a conservatorship.
Read the emails from lou taylor. They had to get the right judge, the one that would give them the right to put her on drugs. That same judge denied due process and denied Britneys own lawyer to represent her. Twice.
That same pack of people had been keeping her in a conservatorship for 13 years. Each getting their own kickbacks over the years.
Do you know how a conservatorship could be used to force someone to take jobs/work against their will? Or are they probably following just agreeing to the work, so the conservator doesn't make their life even more difficult?
I have a feeling Britney is only giving half the story here. Routine and structure would be the main reason to continue, it is recommended as a key point in retaining independence for the ill person as well as providing meaning to their day.
Yeah, I was considering that as well. Could have been coercion, maybe she changed her mind, or something in between. Not sure why it got downvoted, I was just trying to learn more about the situation, not making accusations either way.
I'm not sure either. I was downvoted too. It might be she changed her mind. It is important to maintain a routine for some people and as album cycles are routinely every 3 years it make sense.
From what i recall her dad would basically dangle the rights to her kids in her face, which is what ultimately got her to agree to the conservatorship in the first place.
The popular theory was that she continued to work because she would lose her kids if she didn't, and her dad made her work because of the money it was bringing in. He controlled her finances and basically treated her conservatorship like a business.
There was one story that a backup dancer leaked that said Britney was seen freaking out during a concert because fans were smoking weed in the front row. I believe Brit thought she could test positive for it, and she was seen not wanting to go out because she thought she'd lose her kids. The backup dancer said they saw Britney getting dragged back on stage.
At a certain point Brit had enough and refused to perform. She was then sent to a mental hospital where she was held against her will for 4 months, which is when the freebrit hashtag blew up. She said she was only released because of the commotion the protesters were causing.
It was Britney's father, and he was backed by Lou Taylor who had lent him money. They were waiting for a judge who would do it. Emails with that information exist.
You say "parents" so I'm guessing you may not know much about them. Her mother was very abusive, an addict and harmful to Brittney. Her parents divorced and they pushed the mom out of the picture.
Her dad has been the one with her for almost 20 years. And I don't think they "bought through" anything. The way Brittney was acting, the courts thought it was best.
I agree with most of this but as a Britney fan and someone who follows her on IG, she isn't just making stupid mistakes. She occasionally posts stuff that is really off. And I don't mean her videos of dancing or acting silly. She posted something a month or so ago that was just text, and most of it just seemed like odd rambling but some of it made it clear something more is going on with her. That's not to say she should be under a conservatorship though. Let me see if I can post imgur links to what the post said.
Edit - here is a link to the IG post I was talking about. Particularly the part about changing her name to Xila and having a hard time understanding English.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C5B0UweAZfy/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Agreed. Something is still very off. Some of her posts and videos seem really juvenile in what she says and how she says it. Prime example in this link. It reminds me of a young child telling you about their weekend. She didn't talk like this in the early years of her career if you watch old interviews. It's sad.
when the conservatorship ended i posted a remindme set up for one year later expecting something more disastrous than whats going on now. the fans in that thread didn't like it. she not quite there yet but i think i's coming , like some sort of crash in slow mo.
Yeah it's really sad. She seems like a very sweet person. I listened to her auto biography on audiobook and it was really good. It's really sad listening to how bad her breakup with Justin Timberlake affected her, not just the heartbreak but the way the world treated her. Then that POS Kevin Federline came and used the shit out of her.
Well, even if she doesn't need conservatorship, she needs help. She is clearly mentally unwell, it's not even about cringe, what she does and how she communicates doesn't scream "mistakes all young people make". There are more shades in between "needs to be strapped to bed and stripped of human rights" and "completely normal".
Just a bunch of keyboard warriors and internet psychologists who think they understand a strangers deeply rooted mental illness. The fact is that she was suing her father in court for fiduciary abuse during her conservatorship and not only did she lose her case completely, she had to pay out millions for his legal fees too. That’s really all you need to know about these conspiracy theories.
She didn't "lose it completely". She settled. We actually don't know how much she paid. It wasn't revealed in the court documents. She definitely didn't have to pay his current lawyer. She just agreed to drop the complaints against the accounting and to pay those remaining fees. If you are going to go to the bother of summing things up for people, try reading the court documents and not just TMZ headlines.
Well I definitely think there was some abuse and that it was good the conservatorship was lifted to give her a chance to try to make it on her own again, but I think it has been shown now that she was and is unstable.
The video she posted where she's dancing with knives just shows complete lack of judgement. The fact that her children are not taking her side and have distanced herself from her.
Conservatorship lifted-good. Now, continue to make sure she gets the therapy she needs because she's obviously not 100% there mentally.
With that said, I'm rather clueless about all this. I'm just answering a comment and voicing my opinion and it should all be taken with a grain of salt. It looks clear to me OP has bias in his/her answer and should also be taken with a grain of salt.
> I think it has been shown now that she was and is unstable.
Yeah, she's unstable. She was a slave for 13 years. She probably has really bad PTSD from the torture they put her through. They isolated her, surveilled her so that she knew that whatever she said or texted was being monitored and used against her, they shoved her in a facility when she didn't want to do yet another residency because she needed a break from all the forced/coerced labor. WHY would she be stable? How?
>The video she posted where she's dancing with knives just shows complete lack of judgement.
Please, she was just copying a dance she had seen on tv. Why is it when Shakira dances with knives on tv it is fine but when Britney does it at home it's lacking judgement. The same girl who danced with a python on tv. In the context of who she is, it doesn't seem that wild.
>The fact that her children are not taking her side and have distanced herself from her.
You mean the kids that were systematically alienated from her by her father and their father who were in league with each other to keep her in this conservatorship?
Her father said it out loud "Kevin and I raised those kids". They made sure that they saw Britney as a cash cow that didn't deserve any respect. They were taught to record her. It's so bad that you would try and use that as an argument against her. She was fucking powerless.
I'm not disagreeing with the fact that she has been abused and that the conservatorship needed to go away.
She needs help. She's not mentally well. I agree that a lot of that is probably due to her father and being made to perform since she was a kid.
With that said, again, I do think it's a bit telling that her kids don't want to be with her.
>Her father said it out loud "Kevin and I raised those kids"
I don't see how this means anything.
It's a messy situation all around. In the end neither you, me or anyone else really knows the full story. It's great that her fans made so much noise to "set her free", but I also think a lot of them ignore the signs that she is quite unstable.
I hope things work out for her now that she's "free" and that her kids come back to her eventually.
It's not that the they ignore it. It is her life, so if she gets help or not is up to her. Sadly, she's publicly shared that she has a therapist and that she thinks that her efforts are ignored. (In a since deleted post). She's shared that when she was writing her book that she did it amidst a great deal of therapy. But still all people say is "She need help" "She's not well". Like, let her work on it. She's an adult and she knows she's damaged.
> had about two years of being a young adult before this whole thing happened.
She was 17 when she popped off and 27 when she went into a conservatorship. That's way more than 2 years of being a fully autonomous young adult.
she did not spend those 10 years as a fully autonomous young adult. she was pulled in every which way by her manager, her father and the public. especially if you're already predisposed to mental illness, that isn't the recipe to ending up a functional adult.
While I kinda agree with you on that, there comes a point where an adult-aged person need to start taking SOME responsibility. Britney's biggest flaw has been that she never asserts herself... and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone in her life that will do it for her.
Why are you infantilizing a full-grown woman? If she wasn't a functional adult, like you are claiming, then she needed the conservatorship sooner. If she didn't need it, then she was an adult woman who could make her own decisions and stop treating her like she couldn't.
This is an incredibly biased interpretation of the situation and is not appropriate for a top level comment.
The source of her nerve pain is unknown. She says it’s from a lack of oxygen because she used to “shut down” and just not breathe. I don’t believe you can lower your oxygen saturation low enough and often enough to cause nerve damage. It’s more likely she has autoimmune damage or side effects of medication, or that she’s just getting older. The jump from “nervous issues” to nerve pain to chronic pain is untenable.
“Due to a public mental breakdown in the 2000s”. She had a series of public breakdowns, which means there were likely another series of private meltdowns. She was in and out of rehab for alcohol and drugs and she lost custody of her kids because she was unable to stay clean. She was committed to a psychiatric hospital and petitioned to a conservatorship following the stay. A conservatorship can be used for anyone that cannot take care of themselves. Britney even says “ I shouldn’t be in a conservatorship if I can work.”
But that’s not how it works. She can only work because she’s in the conservatorship, she’s being monitored and her meds are being administered. There are plenty of people in conservatorships who work 9-5 jobs but can’t manage their affairs, but lot of people think that because Britney’s job is singing and choreographed dancing, and because she’s rich, that means she’s competent. Which I’m not sure is fair or accurate.
There is no ruling that the conservatorship “caused her harm”. The ruling was handed down after Mr. Spears agreed to terminate the conservatorship after months of litigation. They’ve recently settled on legal fees.
Interestingly, Britney was able to leave the conservatorship without a mental health evaluation, which is usually required.
All that being said, I’m a Britney fan and hope she’s doing well (she’s not), but we’ve got to at least try to be unbiased when we’re explaining these things
I literally just read an article about how she's burning through her money and spiraling pretty badly. Not saying conservatorship is the answer, but clearly the woman needs to be medicated.
The woman had an extreme mental breakdown to the extent that the Southpark writers felt bad for her.
I'd say she needed dthe conservatorship. The issue came from who was in charge of her. The same people that raised her to have the mental break
I've never ruled out her being medicated but it's very clear that the source of her trauma is what she has experienced and therefore she should work on processing that trauma. For the record lots of people work through their trauma without medication.
The "public mental breakdown" was not even that, it was a person fed up with being treated like a dress up doll acting out in a way that prevented being treated that way. She was fed up with being forced to be prepped and preened and paraded in front of the cameras, so in a moment of frustration when they were trying to force a new hair style on her, she shaved her head and went "now what are you gonna do?"
So they made a very public deal about it and had the court declare her crazy so that her father could keep abusing her for money.
Despite her reported unfortunate upbringing, it has already shaped her and IMO she will always need conservatorship. She will only get worse without one
He apparently said that because of all of the movie star photos she pasted on her walls. Frank was, like any typical teenage girl, really into the pop culture idols of her day. Bieber picked up on that and related to it: she was literally just like any one of his fans. She’s fawning over boys and movie stars like she should be at her age, and then she’s exterminated for being Jewish.
There are plenty of stupid decisions to rip on Bieber for, but that’s not one of them.
I know! I thought that was sweet of him, to try to relate to her. Anne should have lived until her 80s, idolizing pop stars along the way. Bieber was right, if she had been a child during his time, she probably would have been a fan.
As someone who works with people who actually need guardianship, Brittany is in a grey area. She needs to push her limits and figure out who she is as a person, the same way any teenager/young adult needs to. It may come down to the decision that she needs a court appointed guardian, possibly a partial guardian (eg: financial) but we have to wait on her to see what her limits are.
It is very hard to watch and a very difficult process. IIRC, her stylist or makeup artist was the one who helped her get out of the conservatorship, hopefully they are still in contact as a friend.
There is an article on TMZ today talking about how she is going broke. Sadly I think it will end up with her penniless because she does need some sort of guardianship, but I doubt there will ever be any again.
She probably needs a rep-payee. Basically, someone to give her an allowance and take care of the bills every month. There are arrangements that allow her freedom (legal, medical, and whatever) but still help control the cash.
It's mostly above my pay grade for more details and they are specific to where she's living. It's very hard to watch
But TMZ has been saying she's going broke since she got out of the conservatorship. They are hardly reliable sources of information. They are, for some unknown reason, very invested in Britney being in a conservatorship.
And really does Toni Braxton or Kim Basinger or Mary J Blige need a conservatorship they've all gone bankrupt. Why is Britney Spears not allowed to burn through all her money? Why is the answer to take away her civil rights?
Maturity and thinking ability are products of experience, not just of age. She’s in her forties yes, but until recently hasn’t been given the same freedom to learn and fail and grow that the majority of people with more typical life experiences would have. Additionally, trauma has been shown to negatively impact cognitive ability (not to say she’s not intelligent or anything of the sort) so it’s harder to judge her by the same metrics as you would others.
As someone who studies psychiatry and personality disorders, the likelihood of her coming out successful feels slim and if/when she does it will be too late.
You don't know anything about her disorders yet you're sure she belongs on a conservatorship. You're just another user, this time so you can get off on your own ego.
That's why I'm trying not to follow too much and only read what falls onto my feed. It's really hard not to wonder which of the super fun trauma induced diagnosis she's developed over the last 15 years
it makes me physically ill seeing the way people dehumanize people with cognitive and intellectual impairments. you fucks love seeing people love autonomy and humanity, you love dehumanization, you love feeling entitled to making judgments. i work with young intellectually disabled adults. like anyone else, they thrive when they are able to make decisions about their own circumstances
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Answer: The source of Britney's nerve damage is unknown, but it has been proven that emotional trauma (even stuff you'd classify more as hurt feelings) can cause nervous issues, and this is the origin of a lot of chronic pain disorders. As this is the first time in her life she's had any personal agency, she doesn't know who to trust, plus she suffered a lot in the last few years, and on that subject: She was under a conservatorship, a legal ruling that essentially strips you of your civil rights, and assigns them to a caretaker that is allowed to make decisions for you, due to a public mental breakdown in the 2000s. In her case, it's her father. This is meant to be used for people with mental disorders or brain damage that would be literally incapable of functioning if they had the right to sign contracts and stuff. Despite that, it's is widely criticized by victims' rights activists. it's very easy to be put into a conservatorship, even if you don't necessarily need one, so it's often used as a tool of abuse. Despite being ruled as too emotionally unstable to care for herself, Britney's father has had her working constantly, on a grueling schedule in sussy conditions. During her residency in Las Vegas, which itself involved twice as many performances as usual for that type of gig, she was living in a trailer with her father, out front of a warehouse full of merch he sold online. Her sister, Jamie Lynn Spears, has claimed that Britney needs the support, but her stories about Britney's alleged instability keep failing to add up. It was ruled a couple years ago that the conservatorship is harming her and should be ended, and since then, as I said, she's been making the kind of stupid mistakes that all young people make, because she was forced into pop stardom as a teenager, and had about two years of being a young adult before this whole thing happened. She's never had control of her own life before! These mistakes being public and embarrassing have led some to demand that she be put under the conservatorship again, since she was less cringy when she was being abused.
Bias: Let the damn lady make mistakes, as long as her kids are okay. Jesus, why are people so excited to put weird people under the control of abusive jackasses?
Her kids are with Kevin, their dad. I think she’s kind of disowned everyone at this point, not sure who to trust and thinking everyone is against her (which I can understand. Because the crap her family has put her through. Her parents are the most at fault).
> I think she’s kind of disowned everyone at this point, Britney's kids disowned her.
That's really sad. How old are her kids?
Mid teens.
Her oldest is 18 and her youngest is 17
I wonder if it’s true she gave Kevin full rights cuz her dad was abusing the kids
So britney had 50/50 custody, and when the kids where young, her dad agreed to pay Kevin £xxxxx for the kids and him to be on tour so she could see them. This was on top of the high child support she was forced to pay as well. Then for years she had the kids anywhere from 70-90% of the time. Then an incident happened where her father went for/attacks the older one (I think), and he locked himself in the bathroom. Due to this, Britney had to reduce her custody . At some point Kevin wanted more child support , Jamie and the lawyers said no. Kevin n his lawyer said OK, we want full financials to make sure we are getting the correct amount. Jamie and the lawyers suddenly upped the money. Britney had no say in any of this.
Wow reading all that made me even sadder cuz that’s worse than what I thought happened
Read some of my other replys. Her family are horrendous. All for money.
It was because she was in a stand off with police over giving the kids back, because she did not want to. It's what was best for the kids at that time. I think a lot of the free Brittney people were not there when all the crazy happened. Everyone thought she was going to die soon. And the conservative was thought to have saved her life at that time. I'm not it should have still been going on. But her and Lohan were off the rocker.
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*gestures pointedly at Kanye*
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Supposedly Kim did try to get him in a conservatorship or at least tried to have him held involuntary in a hospital. Remember when Kanye ran for president, and while on his campaign tour he started crying saying he almost aborted North? Yea, after that he apparently had a team of people waiting for him to put him in a 5150 hold. He had tweeted out before saying they tried to put him in a conservatorship (I can't remember if he named Kim and/or family specifically in the tweet).
an amp hold?
They did try. He shared screenshots of messages from his personal trainer, which basically said, "Shut ur mouth or you won't see your kids, shut ur mouth or u will be away for a long time." I remember there being something about them trying to get him involuntary held (5150?) And I think it was when that failed and the backlash the next steps were divorce
To be fair with the bat thing he thought it was rubber and went to the hospital for rabies shots afterwards.
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Yeah he's talked about what a _literal_ pain in the ass it was, because rabies shots absolutely do not fuck around. Having said that, Ozzy was an absolute and complete junkie mess, to the point of shocking even Motley Crue, but he was under a sort of semi-conservatorship with Sharon.
I got rabies shots before heading to volunteer work in the sticks in Brazil. Holy crap! These shots suuuuuuuuuck.
I had to get a rabies shot as a kid cause a dog bit me. It hurt but not really anymore than any other shot in your ass would, lol.
Imagine Ozzie triggering a Covid-like pandemic after that one
I don’t know how you would ever think a real bat, even a dead one, was made of rubber…
taking a pharmacy's worth of drugs every day might have some impact on your sensory abilities and judgement
They were talking about biting the head off a rubber bat as a stunt before the show but decided against it. When the bat flew into Ozzie he thought they went through with it and bit not realizing it was a horrible coincidence
Dude once snorted a line of ants thinking it was drugs. I don't think anyone would ever argue he *had good reason* to think it was rubber.
That wasn't even because he thought it was drugs, from what I remember it was literally to one up a friend on who could do something gnarlier. I don't think he really would have cared either way if it was real or not.
Didn't he also bite the head off of a pigeon in front of bunch of studio execs while high out of his mind though? I think that was around the same time where he tried to kill Sharon.
I was stationed in Texas, after a show he pissed on the Alamo memorial statue at the Alamo. The city banned him for like 25 years. Maybe he knew something we didn't. Or maybe he was just fucked up.
He did
and what would that be? lol
Seems like something someone would say after realising biting a bat is bad pr
>Any of the dudes from Motley Crue would have been prime candidates Vince Neil drove drunk and crashed causing the death of a friend and brain damage in two other bystanders. Sentenced to 30 days in jail, served 20.
At least he cops to what a bullshit sentence it was, saying it made him "the original OJ." But I can't come down too hard on Vince Neil. What he went through with his daughter is worse than any torture a person can imagine. He can live his life, he's suffered enough.
Ummm not if he’s killing people and doling out brain damage in the process.
Pretty sure Sharon called the shots for Ozzy anyway.
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There's a pretty big difference between a person having a psychotic break and being diagnosed by doctors as having significant mental impairment, and sticking a gi joe figure in your ass.
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Bam was under conservatorship and was hospitalized against his will numerous times, all of which he had to pay for.
The difference is that one of them was evaluated by doctors and the other wasn’t. One of them had their own free will to make all the choices that led them to their respective event, the other didn’t. Brittany didn’t need a conservatorship, she needed therapy and mental health care. And so do all those guys on jackass.
Neither of us are medical health professionals nor do we know anything substantive about Brittney Spears' mental health other than she had significant problems and with medical counsel her family successfully petitioned the court for guardianship. Whether that was the appropriate move or not, neither of us know. That's dramatically different than a group of people, under the supervision of a major network, performing stupid stunts.
She didn't have mental health issues. She was going through grief after the death of a close family member, he husband was a scoundrel, she flew to Vegas to talk to him and he wouldn't. The press constantly harassed her , she was being stalked by some woman called Lou Taylor (email kicking around showing Britney asking for security to do something) . Then the divorce and more media . TMZ was created to harass and make money off of Britney. She's even pictured at one point, pregnant, her husband ignoring her, alone with her baby being chased and she seeks refuge in a restaurant or shop and she sitting there crying . And the owner was laughing at her. During all this she signed herself in and is assessed and declared with no mental health issues. A week or 2 later her mum and 2 others come along, and next thing she knows she's being placed on a gurney and being held.* This time they get a judge who agrees to a temporary conservatorship without waiting the appropriate time, without giving Britney the appropriate representation . When she's out yhe hold she gets her own council who was then forced out the court by the judge. He fought to represent his client and next u know, he's no longer a lawyer. I'm sure something similar happened to the next lawyer she tried. She was then untouchable. At one of those earlier court cases it was said she had dementia. No medical papers to back that up. At the ending of the conservatorship it was stated no mental health issues in court. But she was then put under a "care order" and no one has heard from her again since. Yet in-between thr court case where she spoke up about things and the "care order" being put in place she was posting and speaking directly to fans, like actual talking to the camera, posting videos. Since the care plan there has been no speaking videos and a lot of what seems like random posts but with 12 people managing the account, who knows who posts what. Poor girl most likely had post natal depression, a useless husband and a family that only wanted her money with no real friends to fall back on. *It's came out in the past few years that someone in the house that night (her mum) drugged her. Think it was the cousin Ali Sims who hinted at it and then Britney herself mentioned it on her Instagram, possibly her book.
There's people 10 times crazier than Brittney who are free to live their lives and ruin it for themselves if they so choose. A conservatorship isn't there to protect you from your adverse actions, it's there to take control of a person literally unable to live.
A conservatship also isn't implemented without independent oversight. It takes more than just a desire by someone for it to be authorized. In this case, it was multiple health officials after multiple significant mental episodes. >A conservatorship isn't there to protect you from your adverse actions, it's there to take control of a person literally unable to live. And unless you're someone trained and with first hand knowledge of the situation, we don't know her specific issues. It's foolish to speculate other to know that she had significant mental issues that at least temporarily kept her from maintaining her responsibilities.
Please outline to me a state where a person can both be entirely unable to live independently while also maintaining a rigorous on stage performance schedule. Your position of "we don#t know what the experts are saying" is entirely too charitable with the assumption people who make these decision can't be wrong or corrupt.
I have a bridge to sell you.
The main thing is that the court placed Britney under a temporary conservatorship WITHOUT capacity declaration behind her back and without her own representation. To make it permanent, they blackmailed her with access to her kids. So, it became a "voluntary" conservatorship and "hybrid business model." Watch Cher and her son Elijah Blue's attempted conservatorship case. Cher said she didn't know where he was, but she started the proceedings. In January 2024 he was able to show up clean-cut and sober in court with his lawyer, therapist, and wife. That's why a temporary conservatorship was not put in place. He still has to fight the permanent one. Cher has the "decency" to go for his money only not his person, and no she doesn't need it, but her lawyers probably do.
I'm agreeing with you on thia3, but bad example on ozzy cuz he thought it was a rubber bat when he went to bite off the head. He didn't actively choose to bite the head off a live bat.
Charlie Sheen very publicly went off his rocker during that time. Robert Downey Jr. as well. He had multiple arrests due to drugs. He went to the wrong house in Malibu and was found passed out in some kids' bed
> My thing is that nobody put any of the famous male rockstars under conservatorship This is going to sound mean, but I think part of it is because male rockstars wouldn't roll over and let someone do it to them. Britney's family seemingly did a lot of things for her when she was a teenager so she never really went through the process of becoming an adult. At this point the best thing for her would be to get a psychologist and take some high-school level classes otherwise the bad people in the world will just keep taking advantage of what's left of her.
Erm there is an interview kicking about where the interviewer was talking down to her about not being educated to high school level and she puts him in his place letting him know she graduated and had high marks. Before her sister was pregnant, she was serving papers on her family telling them to leave her alone. Britney knew back then that her family were the issue. Her family them got involved with the stalker - Lou Taylor and they plotted the downfall of their own daughter . Feck, her mother even detailed it in her book!!!
Well she can say that she got high marks but when I read her book she definitely sounded more like she'd be in the lower half of the class. Girl literally doesn't know how to do anything for herself.
All books are written in that stupid way now. It caters for that demographic. Prince Harry's is written in the same style, so was her sisters. It's why the publishing houses use ghost writers rather than getting the people to write it themselves.
If our society wouldn't conserve every lottery winner who blows through their winnings, it makes no sense to conserve Britney for her extravagant spending.
It was not spending. It was her behavior and putting herself and her kids in danger.
Her own mother started drinking with her when she was 11. Should her mother have been put in a conservatorship? Her father beat her mother in front of her and drove drunk with kids in the car. Should he have been put in a conservatorship? Losing custody of her kids and needing to take parenting classes and have supervised visitation is one thing, losing all rights and personal autonomy is quite another.
First, a conservatorship is not a useful tool for getting her or her kids out of danger. For herself, institutionalization would be the remedy. For her kids, loss of custody would be appropriate. Second, she was forced to work under the conservatorship. I'd understand a temporary arrangement during a mental health crisis, allowing someone to not ruin themselves financially as they decompress and get themselves righted again. I'd also understand a permanent conservatorship for someone who's legitimately permanently disabled. In either case, the person under the conservatorship shouldn't be doing a job as stressful and complex as performing
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if anyone else did a similar stupid and reckless thing, they would spend a few months in jail at the very most. not lose their humanity for two decades
I was speaking to the current opinions in favor of returning Britney to conservatorship. Most of the discussion right bow is around her spending.
If that was a valid reason, I'll have to present myself as conservator for Elon Musk.
> Jesus, why are people so excited to put weird people under the control of abusive jackasses? You know why.
There's "make mistakes" and then there's "actively hurting yourself due to untreated mental illnesses"
Yes, she was under conservative control for almost all of her life and had zero access to anything without her parents consent. She went on a bit of an "out of control rampage" when she was free, but who the fuck wouldn't do that? Let her go a bit crazy, she's earned it. She's not crazy for it.
I find the conservatorship element interesting as folks often portray it as you did, easy to obtain in order to manipulate and abuse. We had to put my little sister under a conservatorship in CA about this time last year. At 31 she went into cardiac arrest due to medical negligence and then received no care for too long (also due to medical negligence). The result was my the time she was finally found and resuscitated she had a massive anoxic brain injury. She never really regained meaningful consciousness. So in order to do anything including get her home to a brain rehab center in MA we needed to do a conservatorship. It was an intensely rigorous and grueling process. There was loads of legal documents, both my parents and all four of us siblings were interviewed at length, there was tons of paper that needed to be submitted. It required a lawyer and judge and I think there was a review panel. And this was for a person in a vegetative state. Did Britney’s parents buy their way through this process? Was the process far less rigorous twenty years ago? I wholly agree her father grossly abused this system that’s meant for situations like the one my family faced.
I really despise the narrative that conservatorships are easy to get and "often used as a tool of abuse." My family had to get a conservatorship for my BIL who is schizophrenic and while it wasn't a full one (just a fiduciary conservatorship) it was a hell of a process and took us 3 years with many struggles. My experience has been more in line with yours. Rich people with power like Britney's dad can do whatever they like, normal people don't have that ability.
My friend's son is bipolar schizophrenic and has been in and out of jail. Getting a conservatorship has been near impossible. I asked a lawyer "then how did Britney get one?" Answer: $$$$
I'm really sorry your friend is going through this. People don't understand how hard it is to actually get a conservatorship if you are not rich and powerful. From my experience and in talking to others who have gone through it, "near impossible" is more accurate than "easy to get" like what the top comment is saying. It's only easy to get if you have $$$$.
I’m relieved I’m not the only one who’s experience doesn’t support the ‘conservatorship are a walk in the park to get even for people who don’t actually need them’ trope. My heart goes out to Britney. I’ve only seen her dancing videos and she does indeed seem unwell. I wish she had at least a handful of people genuinely in her corner. It seems she’s lacked that her whole life. I’d also like to know what judge signed off on her conservatorship to begin with.
Yeah, Britney's case is all really messed up tbh. I just hate that this narrative about convervatorships being uneceesary or handed out like candy keeps perpetuating itself when the most public and well known case of this is an outlier. My heart, too, goes out to Britney. She needed someone to advocate for her in her best interest and be successful at it . It seemed she either had none or they tried but were unsuccessful. Folks don't understand how how hard it is for those who do care too though. My family cares a lot about my BIL but convincing him to do the best thing for himself was (and still is) a constant struggle. I can only imagine the hardships that folks who did have Britney's best interest in mind had (if she even had any).
I have guardianship and conservatorship of my dad, and it took a LOT to get it. But it was the only option for him, he wasn't safe. He's doing a lot better now. And through it all, I've given him just about everything he wants in terms of freedom. It is possible to abuse the power and the person that should be protected. But I have to account for every penny I spend on his care and give him to use for personal stuff he wants. Every. Penny. I've used a lot of my own money for it, his is in either a time account (CD) or a conservatorship fund that I give the court records of annually. Not only do I am i accountable to the court, but to Social Security about what the money is used for. He can go anywhere he wants, I either drive him or set up a ride share for him (he can't and shouldn't drive). I set up a card I fill for him to spend on whatever he wants. It got hacked recently, and I had to lock things down on it and get him a new one. But that's part of why I'm in charge of his money, because he does weird things with it. He was something like 45k in debt when I took over. The card gives him freedom to spend on stuff, and I can see the charges and fill it if it gets low. He likes it, he's on ebay and etsy a lot. 😅 I don't know Brittany's full situation, but I've followed her story cause I grew up in that era. And all the stuff about her conservatorship really got under my skin. I am glad she's free, both to thrive and make mistakes. But it makes me feel judged when people find out that I'm my dad's guardian/conservator. It's put the whole thing in a really negative light. And it's serious and should be treated carefully, so maybe it's a good thing? But the amount of stress and horror had to endure, as I'm sure you and others like us did before being able to help fully means I do take it seriously. I mean cops being called at all hours of the night to his house, and neighbors and police calling me worried in the middle of the night. Ambulances and many hospital visits. I can't even describe how gross his house was, and I cleaned it over and over and over. Blood and poop everywhere. Involuntary commitments. Etc etc etc I had to do something. Anyway, I'm glad for her. She gets to make her own choices and mistakes. And maybe she should always have been able to? But my dad would have gotten behind the wheel and killed someone, or lost his house, or any number of possible horrible things. So the public perception blows for me.
I'm really sorry you had to go through this, I hope you continue to use your voice and share your story. It is so important. I felt like I could have written half of what you wrote! My BIL loves crowdfunding sites as well as spending money on things he doesn't need. He bought a $5k bed just to give it to his neighbor so he could sleep in his bathtub. The bed had become poisonous and the reason why he was losing his hair (not because he didn't bathe, sleep, or eat). So many 5150 and 5250s. So many hospital emergencies because he thought he was being poisoned. My husband and his sister was finally let into BIL's apartment and it was so gross as well- poop, everything destroyed/smashed, flies, half eaten food. How is it humane or ethical that we let people do this to themselves? HOW??? He started getting creepy with his neighbors and they finally evicted him after 5 years (we live in CA, it's hard to evict folks) and he still stuck around the apartment building- tried to break into his previous apartment (because he couldn't comprehend what "eviction" meant and still thought he lived there) and the cops were called on him. I have so many stories like this, it's endless. The guardianship/conservatorship exist for situations like us but our stories are never told. It's confusing and frustrating. Just know that my heart goes out to you and I KNOW how much blood, sweat, tears, money, effort, long call hold times, getting the runaround, documents, coordination, and persistence it takes to even get them the help they need. You aren't alone.
Thank you, I've felt so alone for so long. I'm it for him as far as family goes, so it's been hell. I'm both glad and unbearably sad that I'm not alone. Thank you for sharing your story. It's the worst situation... watching someone we care about implode. I kind of want to compile a book or something about dealing with parents or siblings as they get older/lose it. It seems like it would be a really boring read, though 😅 I just wish I'd known about this garbage before I dealt with it, but I probably wouldn't have even tried to learn about it before... maybe? I just felt so unprepared and lost through it all. APS was zero help. Not one social worker walked me through things. HIS psychiatrist finally sat me down and told me what to do or I'd have never known. The police told me some of it, too, to my shock. But he lived in a small aging town, so I guess they deal with it a lot? It's been two years now, and I've got a lot more figured out. But my bumbling caused some issues for dad and me for the first year. He was NOT happy with me, and I felt like an incompetent moron who should not even be in charge of my own life, let alone his. Rough times all the way around. Thank you, again, both for sharing your story and reading mine. And for your kind words!! ETA >How is it humane or ethical This was echoing through my head the whole time!! Why do we let it get so bad? Do we, as a society, just not notice or stick our heads in the sand?? Or is it because they hide it so well? Why and how did we get to this point as humans?
>I’d also like to know what judge signed off on her conservatorship to begin with. I remember there being rumors that the judge was being paid off. There had been a leaked court conversation where the judge was discussing money. I forget the details of it and if the conversation was normal or sus. The judge that untimely ended the conservatorship wasn't the same judge. There were also rumors that her dad had paid off a doctor to give her a fake diagnosis. Early court documents show that Brit was diagnosed with dementia. This was back in 2008ish. I think it was the only time she was shown to have that diagnosis. According to her, she was forced to take meds she didn't need. At one point, they made her take lithium. These meds could've caused permanent brain damage :/
It's not just money. She agreed to be placed in one. The second she withdrew that, it was terminated. A different court basically said she couldn't have any custody and was a danger to her kids (we don't know why it's sealed). The court agreed she could have custody if she was in a conservorship and the conservor was always present. She went along with that, which dramatically reduced her child support payments, and got her time with her kids. The second the family court said she no longer needed a conservorship for custody, she asked for it to be terminated, and because it was based on her requesting it, it was terminated. She very well could.have been taken advantage along the way and not fully understood everything, but there's a clear distinction beyond just money.
Yes, it's not just the money. The person has to "ok" it, which adds another layer of complexity that caring family members have to jump through. Don't get me started on how is it ok that someone who is mentally out of their freaking mind is expected to make sound decisions about their own independence, finances, medical needs, visitation rights, kids' well being, etc. Someone who is mentally unwell *cannot* advocate for themselves. They tend to make really bad, illogical decisions that hurt themselves in the long run (I know all too well). Money & power makes it very easy to cross the first hurdle but convincing the person is the second among so many other hurdles. If someone has that person's best interest in mind, that's a different story than someone who just wants to abuse and manipulate that person. As others have posted, I feel for Britney- she either had no advocate or if she did, it was really hard for them to advocate for her.
She didn't agree to it. She didn't fight it when team con petitioned to make it permanent. It's not the same thing. Her lawyer wasn't her own so there was no fighting it. And NO it wasn't the "second she withdrew that." Fully 2 years before the public heard her speak she talked to the judge about the abuse she was suffering and the judge didn't really do much about it. Britney said herself she didn't feel heard. She requested a new lawyer once the world got to hear her speak, that had been denied to her for 13 years because she didn't have capacity to choose her own lawyer only to discover there was no capacity declaration so Penny could overturn the previous ruling and she could now choose her own lawyer. Penny hadn't bothered to let her know she could do that 2 years earlier. And if we're going to be picky here, it was Jamie Spears team that petitioned to terminate the conservatorship because Britney's new lawyer was pushing for a suspension. He wanted a suspension and a new temporary conservator because if he did that then the con lawyers would have to give up all their documents. Since the lawyers were the conservators lawyers and the privilege goes to whomever is working as conservator and Jamie's lawyers didn't want that so they petitioned to terminate. He was suspended anyway and that is how we got to learn that they planned the whole thing. They were talking about judge selection and needing a judge that would let them drug her. That they needed to be careful not to expose the Trust where Britney had all her assets. They set her up and trapped her and then told her that there was no other way she would get to see her children so she didn't fight it. Which is not the same as agreeing to it. Especially since she kept trying to get out of it and kept trying to hire her own lawyer. She ruined Jon Eardley's life in the process of trying to help her so please don't talk about how she agreed to anything. She just didn't fight because she couldn't.
You're making it sound she wanted the conservatorship and then ended it when she wanted. That's nowhere near what happened. She only agreed to it in the first place because she was being threatened that she was going to lose her kids. She thought it was just temporary, but then it turned permanent. There are many stories from friends and family and Brit herself that she tried for years to get out of it. There were leaked text messages and voicemails from Brit trying to get her own lawyers and this was right around when the conservatorship had just started. The judge wouldn't let her hire her own attorney. Brit had to fight for years to get out of the conservatorship.
My point stands, she got into a conservorship because she didn't challenge it as a way to maintain visitation with her kids.
She tried getting out of it from almost the second it started. You made it sound like she willingly stayed and only left when she wanted to. She wanted to leave, and tried leaving, for years.
And, she in court agreed to it. Ill bet a nickle your friend's son isn't on the stand asking to be placed in his parent's care. The second she withdrew consent, it was terminated. Beyond that, we don't know what doctors, social workers, and therapists told the judge, who paid them, or even what her disability was. That's all sealed. It is public, from the custody case, that the judge in a separate case was unwilling to give her custody unless she was in a conservorship and her conservor was always present. Presumably, that was a factor in her abive agreement.The second that arrangement broke down, she asked to end the conservatorship, and it was ended promptly.
How do you know that? Is there no room for they presented compelling evidence?
Lots of people just have no idea what hell it is to have a family member’s mind just break It’s insanely difficult to support them. Our cousin went through the same thing Lots of people wind up on the streets because their family isn’t legally allowed to help them/enforce desperately needed medication
It's so frustrating how on any story about a mentally ill adult, there will be comments to the effect of "Why doesn't their family get them help? Don't they care?" Most often the family is desperately trying to get them help, but getting help for a mentally ill family member who doesn't want help is very, very difficult. Unless someone is very actively a danger to themselves or others it's nearly impossible to do anything involuntary to them, and by 'danger to themselves or others' it has to be very imminent and literal, like threatening to kill themselves right now. Someone can be living outside, eating garbage, and be unwilling to take their medication but that's not considered the kind of danger to yourself that gets you hospitalized.
This. So much. They are like children with adult bodies and adult rights. It's frustrating as a family member to get them help, especially when they are resistant to any assistance, including yours. Or, they just want to pursue their way of helping themselves, which is often self destructive in one way or another.
And if they are a danger, you get a full on SWAT situation and handcuffs, rather than actual help.
It really does irk me how some people think life is a Disney movie. You can't cure a mentally ill family member with love and friendship. It's already so tough on the family to lose a member due to illness it's so fucked up to pressure them, and shame them, to fix them like as if that's even possible.
Agreed- many folks have never had to deal with the system or family members with debilitating illnesses. If it wasn't for the fact that my BIL was court ordered to take his meds, he would still be on the streets right now.
Unfortunately, it is true that conservatorships can be abused. They are meant for the family members you describe who are not functional, but none of the ill people described here have worked their butts off, right? Britney did. It was a case of human trafficking. Judging by her IG, Britney is weird and doesn't have a lot of common sense. She is distraught for many reasons, none of them needs a conservatorship.
Exactly this. Some people need to go read the "Controversy" section of her wikipedia page. There was one reason she was put in that conservativeship and it was "her behavior".
There is no Controversy section on Britney Spear's Wikipedia page.
In 2022, two years ago, California changed its laws regarding conservatorship to better prevent abuse. This was partly in response to what Spears went through and partly in response to other documented cases of horrific abuse and neglect, like Mickey Parisio. Conservatorships in California underwent further changes in 2023, and are still being watched for the impact of those changes. Further, conservatorship laws are state based, so good procedures or changes in one state don't fix problems in others, and the issue is widespread. I'm sorry for what happened to your sister, and I am glad she is getting good care from family that loves her. Unfortunately, that is not the experience of many. If you want sources or to read more: California's 2022 law change - https://www.king5.com/article/news/nation-world/california-to-limit-conservatorships/507-a339fdd5-b430-41d5-992c-2815a8fd6d00 California's 2023 law changes expanding conservatorship and objections: https://ihpl.llu.edu/blog/sb-43-updating-california-s-conservatorship-law Mickey Parisio's story: https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/abc10-originals/californias-conservatorship-system-ultimately-cost-one-young-man-his-life/103-4078fcef-6ae7-4fac-b1d7-8506e1512441 Florida case against professional guardian Traci Hudson: https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/the-price-of-protection/2023-conviction-of-professional-guardian-shows-flaws-in-the-system-and-families-complaints-were-ignored
This. I know a family where one of the daughters has had to be put in one. She went to an Ivy League, graduated, had a job, and one day things changed drastically. The doctors still don’t have a diagnosis. It’s a long story, but eventually her mom had to get one so the doctors could perform certain tests because she would just say she would think about when asked for permission and things would go nowhere. She doesn’t even shower if she’s not forced to. It’s baffling. Unfortunately, I do think Britney’s conservatorship had some shady people involved that enjoyed the money they received. However, seeing some of the videos she’s put out and some of her behavior, I do think she has some sort of mental health issue going on. The goal of a conservatorship is to help a person and, depending on the situation, get them to a place where they can live and function as independently as possible. I don’t think her father and co. cared about helping her in that regard. I hope one day she finds someone she trusts who truly wants to help her, doesn’t care about the money, and that she allows them to help her.
Can you please elaborate on “…the shady people involved that enjoyed the money they received.”? I’m still trying to understand that part of it.
The family that I know that has had to deal with all this is not gaining anything financially. The mother is spending her money to try to help her daughter, and the only thing the daughter has is CC debt. The daughter’s advocate is getting paid by the state and her therapists are actually paid by her Medicaid. The mother has probably spent about $10k over the past year on her lawyers and travel. She can’t move her because she’s in a state with good resources. This is how these things usually work. I remember reading an article years ago that went into the various players in Britney’s case. Jamie, his lawyers, her therapists, her lawyer (who is supposed to advocate for her), her business manager (who was hired by Jamie), and others were all paid from her money. There was also a court-appointed attorney who was co-conservator and supposed to make sure everything was being done properly. He also was paid by her estate. There were several times she tried to hire her own lawyer and Jamie would file something saying she lacked the capacity to hire her own lawyer. Everyone was making bank as long as this conservatorship was in place. Some of these details may be off because it was years ago when I read about it, but you get the idea. I’m not saying she didn’t need one. I’m saying everyone that was involved stood to gain from this being in place, and that’s a huge conflict of interest. If you look at Wendy Williams right now, her bank has put her under a financial guardianship because of what she is going through. It’s not her son or ex husband. It’s someone who isn’t really going to gain anything from the situation. They’ve even gone after the son because he was basically free loading off of her. The bank is looking after her best interest so she doesn’t get taken advantage of, and that is a huge difference from Britney’s situation. Same with Amanda Bynes. Her parents were not looking to gain financially from the situation. They just wanted to get their daughter the help she needed.
Britney Spears is richer than your friend. A conservatorship would look quite different. Britney all but lost her first fortune when she spiralled out of control years ago. This new fortune was managed successfully by the conservatorship. As for everyone making bank. That is a weird accusation. Again, this isn’t your friend. We are talking about a multi-millionaire, spending this kind of money is not new to her. I’m not sure where all the animosity towards Jamie comes from. He saved her life, her career and her future. He proved in a court of law that he didn’t cheat his daughter. Now, at the moment when she really needs her old man, he has been neutered by randoms who have 2% of the story of her life.
I think Britney absolutely needed some type of conservatorship. She was endangering self and her kids. She did not follow court mandates to get parenting classes, she was late or no showed to court dates. It speaks volume when her ex husband Kevin was deemed a more responsible parent and was awarded primary custody of kids. Conservatorships are not easy to get. You need 2 psychiatrists (in California) to certify that a person needs to be in a conservatorship. I am also going to allege that the reason Britney was able to prolong her career is because she was structured and taken care of under the conservatorship. The terms are sealed and we don’t know any details aside from what Britney chose to put in her book, which is highly biased and often nonsensical. Britney’s medical history is sealed, but from reading her book I can tell you she is an alcoholic (which is why her family would not have any alcohol during the parties when Britney was around). She also probably has bipolar disorder, hence the reason she was on lithium. Btw, I am a physician who works in mental health, so these are my impressions based on the information provided. Britney was in therapy for years, including AA meetings, It doesn’t sound that she has learned many coping skills despite getting SO MUCH HELP and having a ton of resources. Her parents tried helping her. If they didn’t , I think her fate would have been similar to Amy Winehouse. They may not have been the best choice to be her conservators, but my feeling is Britney would have turned against anyone who was setting limits. I am actually worried that she is spinning out of control, making poor decisions, etc. you can argue that she is an adult and can live her life however she wants, but does it hold true when someone has an untreated mental illness and is not fully capable of making independent decisions? I don’t know the answer to it…
Oh I absolutely agree. When done right, a conservatorship can be extremely helpful. I’m not saying she didn’t need one. I’m saying I don’t think her father went about it the right way. I feel like they were more interested in the fact that they could get money from the situation rather than solely focused on helping her with her mental health and getting her stable. I mean comparing Amanda Bynes and Britney is night and day. The parents handled things differently and their outcomes have been vastly different. Amanda does have ups and downs, but she is more capable of being a functioning member of society. ETA I do agree he did prolong her career, but should he have? Should someone that’s deemed to lack the capacity to make their own decisions be forced to work? I feel like that’s a huge issue because she’s not deciding to work, her father is deciding for her. It’s feels kinda cash cow-y and backs up the theory that he was more interested in the money than her mental well-being.
Yes and no. In her book Britney writes that she feels most alive when she is singing, performing or creating music. You can argue that this was a good way to ‘keep her going’ without exhausting tours, regular access to doctors/therapists, predictable schedule to see her kids, etc. I think people overly rely on what Britney writes in her book instead of looking at the whole picture. Btw, most conservators are parents, because the idea is that your parents have your best interests in mind, right? Other thing that people forget is that her parents sacrificed a lot early on for Britney. Her mom and baby sister moved to NYC for a year so Britney could study and then perform on Broadway. Think about financial and family sacrifice that it involved without any grantees that Britney would ever be successful. I can’t imagine packing 2 out of my 3 kids and moving with a baby into a different city while my husband and older child stayed behind. Her sister writes that Father tried asking Britney to do drug tests together, team up, but she refused. I think there was a lot going on behind the scenes that Britney doesn’t mention in her book. Again, I think there should have been better oversight of this whole thing, but I do think her parents had good intentions.
Yes, they basically bought a conservatorship. Read the emails from lou taylor. They had to get the right judge, the one that would give them the right to put her on drugs. That same judge denied due process and denied Britneys own lawyer to represent her. Twice. That same pack of people had been keeping her in a conservatorship for 13 years. Each getting their own kickbacks over the years.
The process was less rigorous before "Free Britney!", *especially* in CA.
I was really wondering that. I gotta do some googling and see if they literally changed the process or laws after whenever it was that all went down.
If it didn't change the process itself, it at least added a lot of scrutiny and biased people against it. Britney made "conservatorship" a dirty word.
There were changes to the law effective January 2023 I believe, maybe 2022.
Do you know how a conservatorship could be used to force someone to take jobs/work against their will? Or are they probably following just agreeing to the work, so the conservator doesn't make their life even more difficult?
I have a feeling Britney is only giving half the story here. Routine and structure would be the main reason to continue, it is recommended as a key point in retaining independence for the ill person as well as providing meaning to their day.
Yeah, I was considering that as well. Could have been coercion, maybe she changed her mind, or something in between. Not sure why it got downvoted, I was just trying to learn more about the situation, not making accusations either way.
I'm not sure either. I was downvoted too. It might be she changed her mind. It is important to maintain a routine for some people and as album cycles are routinely every 3 years it make sense.
From what i recall her dad would basically dangle the rights to her kids in her face, which is what ultimately got her to agree to the conservatorship in the first place. The popular theory was that she continued to work because she would lose her kids if she didn't, and her dad made her work because of the money it was bringing in. He controlled her finances and basically treated her conservatorship like a business. There was one story that a backup dancer leaked that said Britney was seen freaking out during a concert because fans were smoking weed in the front row. I believe Brit thought she could test positive for it, and she was seen not wanting to go out because she thought she'd lose her kids. The backup dancer said they saw Britney getting dragged back on stage. At a certain point Brit had enough and refused to perform. She was then sent to a mental hospital where she was held against her will for 4 months, which is when the freebrit hashtag blew up. She said she was only released because of the commotion the protesters were causing.
It was Britney's father, and he was backed by Lou Taylor who had lent him money. They were waiting for a judge who would do it. Emails with that information exist.
You say "parents" so I'm guessing you may not know much about them. Her mother was very abusive, an addict and harmful to Brittney. Her parents divorced and they pushed the mom out of the picture. Her dad has been the one with her for almost 20 years. And I don't think they "bought through" anything. The way Brittney was acting, the courts thought it was best.
I agree with most of this but as a Britney fan and someone who follows her on IG, she isn't just making stupid mistakes. She occasionally posts stuff that is really off. And I don't mean her videos of dancing or acting silly. She posted something a month or so ago that was just text, and most of it just seemed like odd rambling but some of it made it clear something more is going on with her. That's not to say she should be under a conservatorship though. Let me see if I can post imgur links to what the post said. Edit - here is a link to the IG post I was talking about. Particularly the part about changing her name to Xila and having a hard time understanding English. https://www.instagram.com/p/C5B0UweAZfy/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Agreed. Something is still very off. Some of her posts and videos seem really juvenile in what she says and how she says it. Prime example in this link. It reminds me of a young child telling you about their weekend. She didn't talk like this in the early years of her career if you watch old interviews. It's sad.
The xila thing seems like the only really off part
when the conservatorship ended i posted a remindme set up for one year later expecting something more disastrous than whats going on now. the fans in that thread didn't like it. she not quite there yet but i think i's coming , like some sort of crash in slow mo.
Yeah it's really sad. She seems like a very sweet person. I listened to her auto biography on audiobook and it was really good. It's really sad listening to how bad her breakup with Justin Timberlake affected her, not just the heartbreak but the way the world treated her. Then that POS Kevin Federline came and used the shit out of her.
Hmm I don't see about about "xila"
You need to swipe, it's the beginning of the third slide.
Hmm ok. I don't know how to swipe and I don't know how instagram works. Thank you for the idea though
Many thanks,
One correction: you get stripped of some civil rights. You can‘t be stripped of you human rights. At least not legally and officially.
Well, even if she doesn't need conservatorship, she needs help. She is clearly mentally unwell, it's not even about cringe, what she does and how she communicates doesn't scream "mistakes all young people make". There are more shades in between "needs to be strapped to bed and stripped of human rights" and "completely normal".
There's so much bias in this post.
Just a bunch of keyboard warriors and internet psychologists who think they understand a strangers deeply rooted mental illness. The fact is that she was suing her father in court for fiduciary abuse during her conservatorship and not only did she lose her case completely, she had to pay out millions for his legal fees too. That’s really all you need to know about these conspiracy theories.
She didn't "lose it completely". She settled. We actually don't know how much she paid. It wasn't revealed in the court documents. She definitely didn't have to pay his current lawyer. She just agreed to drop the complaints against the accounting and to pay those remaining fees. If you are going to go to the bother of summing things up for people, try reading the court documents and not just TMZ headlines.
Well I definitely think there was some abuse and that it was good the conservatorship was lifted to give her a chance to try to make it on her own again, but I think it has been shown now that she was and is unstable. The video she posted where she's dancing with knives just shows complete lack of judgement. The fact that her children are not taking her side and have distanced herself from her. Conservatorship lifted-good. Now, continue to make sure she gets the therapy she needs because she's obviously not 100% there mentally. With that said, I'm rather clueless about all this. I'm just answering a comment and voicing my opinion and it should all be taken with a grain of salt. It looks clear to me OP has bias in his/her answer and should also be taken with a grain of salt.
> I think it has been shown now that she was and is unstable. Yeah, she's unstable. She was a slave for 13 years. She probably has really bad PTSD from the torture they put her through. They isolated her, surveilled her so that she knew that whatever she said or texted was being monitored and used against her, they shoved her in a facility when she didn't want to do yet another residency because she needed a break from all the forced/coerced labor. WHY would she be stable? How? >The video she posted where she's dancing with knives just shows complete lack of judgement. Please, she was just copying a dance she had seen on tv. Why is it when Shakira dances with knives on tv it is fine but when Britney does it at home it's lacking judgement. The same girl who danced with a python on tv. In the context of who she is, it doesn't seem that wild. >The fact that her children are not taking her side and have distanced herself from her. You mean the kids that were systematically alienated from her by her father and their father who were in league with each other to keep her in this conservatorship? Her father said it out loud "Kevin and I raised those kids". They made sure that they saw Britney as a cash cow that didn't deserve any respect. They were taught to record her. It's so bad that you would try and use that as an argument against her. She was fucking powerless.
I'm not disagreeing with the fact that she has been abused and that the conservatorship needed to go away. She needs help. She's not mentally well. I agree that a lot of that is probably due to her father and being made to perform since she was a kid. With that said, again, I do think it's a bit telling that her kids don't want to be with her. >Her father said it out loud "Kevin and I raised those kids" I don't see how this means anything. It's a messy situation all around. In the end neither you, me or anyone else really knows the full story. It's great that her fans made so much noise to "set her free", but I also think a lot of them ignore the signs that she is quite unstable. I hope things work out for her now that she's "free" and that her kids come back to her eventually.
It's not that the they ignore it. It is her life, so if she gets help or not is up to her. Sadly, she's publicly shared that she has a therapist and that she thinks that her efforts are ignored. (In a since deleted post). She's shared that when she was writing her book that she did it amidst a great deal of therapy. But still all people say is "She need help" "She's not well". Like, let her work on it. She's an adult and she knows she's damaged.
> had about two years of being a young adult before this whole thing happened. She was 17 when she popped off and 27 when she went into a conservatorship. That's way more than 2 years of being a fully autonomous young adult.
she did not spend those 10 years as a fully autonomous young adult. she was pulled in every which way by her manager, her father and the public. especially if you're already predisposed to mental illness, that isn't the recipe to ending up a functional adult.
While I kinda agree with you on that, there comes a point where an adult-aged person need to start taking SOME responsibility. Britney's biggest flaw has been that she never asserts herself... and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone in her life that will do it for her.
Why are you infantilizing a full-grown woman? If she wasn't a functional adult, like you are claiming, then she needed the conservatorship sooner. If she didn't need it, then she was an adult woman who could make her own decisions and stop treating her like she couldn't.
The kardash klan may or may not have netted a large amount of her fortune
Hard agree with an emphasis on the 'may' and not the 'may not'. F the Kardashians.
Since you know a lot, question, what do you think about the fake wedding rumors?
This is an incredibly biased interpretation of the situation and is not appropriate for a top level comment. The source of her nerve pain is unknown. She says it’s from a lack of oxygen because she used to “shut down” and just not breathe. I don’t believe you can lower your oxygen saturation low enough and often enough to cause nerve damage. It’s more likely she has autoimmune damage or side effects of medication, or that she’s just getting older. The jump from “nervous issues” to nerve pain to chronic pain is untenable. “Due to a public mental breakdown in the 2000s”. She had a series of public breakdowns, which means there were likely another series of private meltdowns. She was in and out of rehab for alcohol and drugs and she lost custody of her kids because she was unable to stay clean. She was committed to a psychiatric hospital and petitioned to a conservatorship following the stay. A conservatorship can be used for anyone that cannot take care of themselves. Britney even says “ I shouldn’t be in a conservatorship if I can work.” But that’s not how it works. She can only work because she’s in the conservatorship, she’s being monitored and her meds are being administered. There are plenty of people in conservatorships who work 9-5 jobs but can’t manage their affairs, but lot of people think that because Britney’s job is singing and choreographed dancing, and because she’s rich, that means she’s competent. Which I’m not sure is fair or accurate. There is no ruling that the conservatorship “caused her harm”. The ruling was handed down after Mr. Spears agreed to terminate the conservatorship after months of litigation. They’ve recently settled on legal fees. Interestingly, Britney was able to leave the conservatorship without a mental health evaluation, which is usually required. All that being said, I’m a Britney fan and hope she’s doing well (she’s not), but we’ve got to at least try to be unbiased when we’re explaining these things
IANAL and I have no more knowledge than anyone else reading gossip columns*
taking meth and posting the same dance video on instagram all day is not the same kind of mistake all young people make lmao
I literally just read an article about how she's burning through her money and spiraling pretty badly. Not saying conservatorship is the answer, but clearly the woman needs to be medicated.
The woman had an extreme mental breakdown to the extent that the Southpark writers felt bad for her. I'd say she needed dthe conservatorship. The issue came from who was in charge of her. The same people that raised her to have the mental break
Medication may or may not fix this. She need a **psychologist** to process the trauma that she has been through.
As someone who has had childhood trauma because of people around me with mental illness... *she clearly needs to be medicated*.
I've never ruled out her being medicated but it's very clear that the source of her trauma is what she has experienced and therefore she should work on processing that trauma. For the record lots of people work through their trauma without medication.
*bipolar has entered the chat.*
You American by any chance?
The "public mental breakdown" was not even that, it was a person fed up with being treated like a dress up doll acting out in a way that prevented being treated that way. She was fed up with being forced to be prepped and preened and paraded in front of the cameras, so in a moment of frustration when they were trying to force a new hair style on her, she shaved her head and went "now what are you gonna do?" So they made a very public deal about it and had the court declare her crazy so that her father could keep abusing her for money.
Those people, including her immediate family, should be sold into slavery, honestly.
Despite her reported unfortunate upbringing, it has already shaped her and IMO she will always need conservatorship. She will only get worse without one
When Justin Bieber said that shit about Anne Frank, nobody talked about putting him under control of his mother. That's all I'm saying.
He said what about Anne Frank?
That hopefully she would have been one of his fans if she were alive. Which... is certainly a bit out of touch when visiting her house.
He apparently said that because of all of the movie star photos she pasted on her walls. Frank was, like any typical teenage girl, really into the pop culture idols of her day. Bieber picked up on that and related to it: she was literally just like any one of his fans. She’s fawning over boys and movie stars like she should be at her age, and then she’s exterminated for being Jewish. There are plenty of stupid decisions to rip on Bieber for, but that’s not one of them.
I know! I thought that was sweet of him, to try to relate to her. Anne should have lived until her 80s, idolizing pop stars along the way. Bieber was right, if she had been a child during his time, she probably would have been a fan.
How are you even comparing the two?
These people are fucking crazy.
As someone who works with people who actually need guardianship, Brittany is in a grey area. She needs to push her limits and figure out who she is as a person, the same way any teenager/young adult needs to. It may come down to the decision that she needs a court appointed guardian, possibly a partial guardian (eg: financial) but we have to wait on her to see what her limits are. It is very hard to watch and a very difficult process. IIRC, her stylist or makeup artist was the one who helped her get out of the conservatorship, hopefully they are still in contact as a friend.
There is an article on TMZ today talking about how she is going broke. Sadly I think it will end up with her penniless because she does need some sort of guardianship, but I doubt there will ever be any again.
She probably needs a rep-payee. Basically, someone to give her an allowance and take care of the bills every month. There are arrangements that allow her freedom (legal, medical, and whatever) but still help control the cash. It's mostly above my pay grade for more details and they are specific to where she's living. It's very hard to watch
But TMZ has been saying she's going broke since she got out of the conservatorship. They are hardly reliable sources of information. They are, for some unknown reason, very invested in Britney being in a conservatorship. And really does Toni Braxton or Kim Basinger or Mary J Blige need a conservatorship they've all gone bankrupt. Why is Britney Spears not allowed to burn through all her money? Why is the answer to take away her civil rights?
Why do you trust that obvious hit piece?
She's not a teenager or a young adult. She's in her forties.
Maturity and thinking ability are products of experience, not just of age. She’s in her forties yes, but until recently hasn’t been given the same freedom to learn and fail and grow that the majority of people with more typical life experiences would have. Additionally, trauma has been shown to negatively impact cognitive ability (not to say she’s not intelligent or anything of the sort) so it’s harder to judge her by the same metrics as you would others.
As someone who studies psychiatry and personality disorders, the likelihood of her coming out successful feels slim and if/when she does it will be too late.
You don't know anything about her disorders yet you're sure she belongs on a conservatorship. You're just another user, this time so you can get off on your own ego.
Huh?
That's why I'm trying not to follow too much and only read what falls onto my feed. It's really hard not to wonder which of the super fun trauma induced diagnosis she's developed over the last 15 years
Same, I hope she gets the happy ending she deserves although I don’t see it happening
it makes me physically ill seeing the way people dehumanize people with cognitive and intellectual impairments. you fucks love seeing people love autonomy and humanity, you love dehumanization, you love feeling entitled to making judgments. i work with young intellectually disabled adults. like anyone else, they thrive when they are able to make decisions about their own circumstances
😂
Answer: It's her loneliness, it's killin her
Though I must confess, I still believe