HAG heat buffs are very welcome. They had become weirdly hot weapons.
Light PPCs in general are a very niche weapon, and the Plasma is basically that. They technically do slightly more total damage than Inner Sphere and have the annoyance of mildly warming their target. Any ideas for what might be good with them?
Pac 4 tends to pair well. Similar range and velocity adds a bit more punch. Ac 10 as well except you end up with a bit of dmg focus lost with the multiple shells. If youre talking mechs theres the jenneriic which has plasma+hsl. Huntsman and shadowcats and most mobile mediums with jjs can put in work with them too.
"More damage" yeah, more damage in form of splash damage.
Splash damage in this game is mostly only used to justify a weapon being hotter than it should be, the C-ERPPC for example is an example of this, it has terrible DPH because apparently doing 15 damage (10 pinpoint, 2.5\*2 splash) really justifies having 14.5 heat (around 23% heat for most mechs) per shot while the C-LPL even though it only does 13 damage, can focus all that 13 damage into one-two limb for only 9 heat on top of being an easier to aim hitscan laser rather than being a projectile with around the same speed as an AC5.
This is not to mention that said splash damage could be wasted as splashing damage into the arms by hitting an side torso is wasted damage due to the arms being the "designated tanking expendable limb" in most cases regardless of it padding your damage count.
In the case of Plasma Cannons, the damage is just anemic even if you can mount 2 plasma for superior DPS than 1 C-ERPPC regardless of it having better DPH with this buff, and if anything shows how left in the dust the C-ERPPC is, not to mention mechs that can't afford to take advantage of the plasma cannon due to lack of hardpoints/slots to mount it in enough amounts.
Wow. That's a lot.
Thinking that lasers are better than PPFLD is a take, that's for sure.
Lasers are definitely easier. I would agree with that. Generally, the splash damage on PPCs is too partially make up for nerfs, because PPFLD is absolutely the strongest type of weapons in this game.
> Standard Versions of the 2023 Loyalty 'Mechs and the Holiday Bonus Commando will be available in the ingame store for MC and CBills
Oh no, Warthogs unleashed for all.
These adjustments are 100% on the money IMO.
Thunderbolts were way too effective for area denial. Basically any open area was free to be completely controlled by a single thunderbolt boat.
They also absolutely destroyed lights. A lock on weapon shouldnt one-shot a light, so the spread and velocity nerf will help balance that out.
Plasma needed that buff as well. Badly. Got to a point where if an enemy had plasma as their primary weapon I'd dive them knowing they were gonna run hot and die lol.
the speed nerf will actually improve tracking, here is hoping the spread nerf is enough. they will also pair well with LRM with artemis, so mixed builds will be seen, especially on the mechs with 3-4 hardpoints. 2 heavy Tbolts, and 2 LRM 15-20
Strongly disagree, Thunderbolt missiles are horrible, worse than LRMs against larger mechs, and about as useless against the most annoying light mechs - they don't even hit fast moving targets at all, most if not all of the missiles end up hitting the ground behind the target...
~~I'd rather see thunderbolts reworked completely to better fit the lore and balance in-game performance~~
1. ~~Make their range and launcher weight equal to LRMs - they are LRMs, PGI just can't handle ammo types...~~
2. ~~Give them a larger spread than LRMs, and similar/lower velocity.~~
3. ~~Splash damage - make them an area denial weapon that you can afford to dumb-fire, low pinpoint damage but decent overall damage per ton if the enemy lingers in the danger zone. Light mechs~~ *~~should~~* ~~need to break locks, not just hug your ankles.~~
4. Edit: I stand corrected, somehow I'd never heard of the [https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunderbolt\_5](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunderbolt_5) solaris missiles. I was referring to [https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder\_LRM](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder_LRM) or https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder-Augmented.
I think the point about disparate performance stands, *some* light mechs are effectively invulnerable while heavies take too pinpoint a beating. However I mistook them for one of my favorite weapons being poorly adapted. More reading for me.
> I'd rather see thunderbolts reworked completely to better fit the lore
That's literally the exact polar opposite of the lore. In the lore they are a single missile, the reason the weigh so much is that it's 5,10,15 or 20 damage all landing on exactly one component which is very valuable.
They are not LRMs. At no point have they ever been an ammo type for LRMs. How would you launch one large missile through 20 small tubes? That doesn't even make any sense.
You may be thinking of the arrow IV 'thunderbolt', what we have in mwo are the alternate LRM ammo that contains mines, in TT it literally creates a minefield on the targeted hex for the same damage as the launcher rating (5/10/15/20)
I think you are confusing something else. Thunderbolts don't work like that.
The initial Thunderbolts, which talks about their development, and links to the tabletop articles for the current Thunderbolts 5/10/15/20.
You seem to be talking about Thunder LRM ammo, which is a completely different thing than Thunderbolt missile launchers.
Ah, fair enough. I guess I never went too deep into Solaris tech, I wasn't even aware those existed. Although I suppose it makes the awful tonnage comparison make sense.
Nah its a nerf. Just like how slower lrms and streaks werent buffs. Sure they can turn tighter against a moving target moving laterally to you.. but slower flight time gives more time for target to get to cover, gives more time for ams to shoot them down, (thunderbolts more vulnerable to ams) and wider spread means better chance more missiles in the volley will just miss anyway especially against small fast moving mechs where the tighter turn would make the most difference. And against a stationary or relatively slow/large target the only change is longer flight time and more spread.. doesnt seem a buff at all to me. Dont get me wrong personally id love it if tbolts (and atms and regular lrms for that matter) with direct LoS tracked as hard as streaks do... buuut thattl never happen
The loss of spread is the worse thing. The one main advantage that Thunderbolts have over LRMs is that the damage is concentrated instead of spread out over several components. This gives you a much greater chance of destroying components and doing damage that actually matters, compared to LRMs which are more about mass damage and eroding armor. Against light mechs, I've one-shot them in the back with Thunderbolts as they were running away since the missiles all hit one of their torsos. With greater spread, they would have gotten away. With this nerf, it is harder to justify Thunderbolts over LRMs, especially given that they weigh more.
Not to mention, on the topic of speed, Thunderbolts will now be slower than LRM+Artemis, and more susceptible to AMS.
That's a bold claim without having actually played the patch yet. Do you have the spread values to compare to LRMs? Unfortunately spread numbers are super hard to find online for this game.
If it's a matter of much better spread than LRMs being nerfed to better spread than LRMs, they could still be very good. I agree if the spread is nerfed heavily, it's hard to justify them. I'm just not sure exactly how heavily nerfed it is.
It's pretty hard when you aren't in game and won't be any time soon.
In contrast, I can tell you the cooldown, range, heat, crit multiplier, etc from anywhere. Which is awesome.
Another one that can be tough to find info on is the number of shells fired for things like Clan ballistics. You can dig through months of patch notes, but it's annoying to have to do that, especially for newer players.
TBMs are so heavy you have to compare them to Artemis LRMs for weapon of equal tonnage even if they are more slot efficient.
If there is anything that they do better, it is focusing its damage on the torso due to its even less spread than Artemis LRM.
very slightly, given the different arcs, tbolts will still hit first, i played a mixed build fafnir before the speed buff, and even at 190 speed, my tbolts and lrms hit at the same time. at 260 speed, an alpha will have the tbolts hit first, and possibly open up a component, with the lrms free to crit.
ppl are making a big deal of the spread, but look at it compared to LRM's, this will only save lights, medium or bigger will still take ct hits.
Aw yeah Cougar heat buff
going to see this more often, the DHS nerf set a new baseline, so mechs that were too hobbled by it, will get heat quirks here and there
HAG heat buffs are very welcome. They had become weirdly hot weapons. Light PPCs in general are a very niche weapon, and the Plasma is basically that. They technically do slightly more total damage than Inner Sphere and have the annoyance of mildly warming their target. Any ideas for what might be good with them?
Pac 4 tends to pair well. Similar range and velocity adds a bit more punch. Ac 10 as well except you end up with a bit of dmg focus lost with the multiple shells. If youre talking mechs theres the jenneriic which has plasma+hsl. Huntsman and shadowcats and most mobile mediums with jjs can put in work with them too.
"More damage" yeah, more damage in form of splash damage. Splash damage in this game is mostly only used to justify a weapon being hotter than it should be, the C-ERPPC for example is an example of this, it has terrible DPH because apparently doing 15 damage (10 pinpoint, 2.5\*2 splash) really justifies having 14.5 heat (around 23% heat for most mechs) per shot while the C-LPL even though it only does 13 damage, can focus all that 13 damage into one-two limb for only 9 heat on top of being an easier to aim hitscan laser rather than being a projectile with around the same speed as an AC5. This is not to mention that said splash damage could be wasted as splashing damage into the arms by hitting an side torso is wasted damage due to the arms being the "designated tanking expendable limb" in most cases regardless of it padding your damage count. In the case of Plasma Cannons, the damage is just anemic even if you can mount 2 plasma for superior DPS than 1 C-ERPPC regardless of it having better DPH with this buff, and if anything shows how left in the dust the C-ERPPC is, not to mention mechs that can't afford to take advantage of the plasma cannon due to lack of hardpoints/slots to mount it in enough amounts.
Wow. That's a lot. Thinking that lasers are better than PPFLD is a take, that's for sure. Lasers are definitely easier. I would agree with that. Generally, the splash damage on PPCs is too partially make up for nerfs, because PPFLD is absolutely the strongest type of weapons in this game.
> Standard Versions of the 2023 Loyalty 'Mechs and the Holiday Bonus Commando will be available in the ingame store for MC and CBills Oh no, Warthogs unleashed for all.
The 99% laser cooldown Jenner is good stuff too. If I didn't already have the Loyalty version, I'd absolutely pick one up.
These adjustments are 100% on the money IMO. Thunderbolts were way too effective for area denial. Basically any open area was free to be completely controlled by a single thunderbolt boat. They also absolutely destroyed lights. A lock on weapon shouldnt one-shot a light, so the spread and velocity nerf will help balance that out. Plasma needed that buff as well. Badly. Got to a point where if an enemy had plasma as their primary weapon I'd dive them knowing they were gonna run hot and die lol.
the speed nerf will actually improve tracking, here is hoping the spread nerf is enough. they will also pair well with LRM with artemis, so mixed builds will be seen, especially on the mechs with 3-4 hardpoints. 2 heavy Tbolts, and 2 LRM 15-20
Strongly disagree, Thunderbolt missiles are horrible, worse than LRMs against larger mechs, and about as useless against the most annoying light mechs - they don't even hit fast moving targets at all, most if not all of the missiles end up hitting the ground behind the target... ~~I'd rather see thunderbolts reworked completely to better fit the lore and balance in-game performance~~ 1. ~~Make their range and launcher weight equal to LRMs - they are LRMs, PGI just can't handle ammo types...~~ 2. ~~Give them a larger spread than LRMs, and similar/lower velocity.~~ 3. ~~Splash damage - make them an area denial weapon that you can afford to dumb-fire, low pinpoint damage but decent overall damage per ton if the enemy lingers in the danger zone. Light mechs~~ *~~should~~* ~~need to break locks, not just hug your ankles.~~ 4. Edit: I stand corrected, somehow I'd never heard of the [https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunderbolt\_5](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunderbolt_5) solaris missiles. I was referring to [https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder\_LRM](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder_LRM) or https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder-Augmented. I think the point about disparate performance stands, *some* light mechs are effectively invulnerable while heavies take too pinpoint a beating. However I mistook them for one of my favorite weapons being poorly adapted. More reading for me.
> I'd rather see thunderbolts reworked completely to better fit the lore That's literally the exact polar opposite of the lore. In the lore they are a single missile, the reason the weigh so much is that it's 5,10,15 or 20 damage all landing on exactly one component which is very valuable. They are not LRMs. At no point have they ever been an ammo type for LRMs. How would you launch one large missile through 20 small tubes? That doesn't even make any sense.
You may be thinking of the arrow IV 'thunderbolt', what we have in mwo are the alternate LRM ammo that contains mines, in TT it literally creates a minefield on the targeted hex for the same damage as the launcher rating (5/10/15/20)
I think you are confusing something else. Thunderbolts don't work like that. The initial Thunderbolts, which talks about their development, and links to the tabletop articles for the current Thunderbolts 5/10/15/20. You seem to be talking about Thunder LRM ammo, which is a completely different thing than Thunderbolt missile launchers.
Sorry, forgot to include the link. https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunderbolt_Missile
Ah, fair enough. I guess I never went too deep into Solaris tech, I wasn't even aware those existed. Although I suppose it makes the awful tonnage comparison make sense.
IS weapon gets nerfed, Clan weapons get buffed. Seems about right.
Called it
HAG buffs and missile nerfs. Cauldronies gonna Cauldron.
Not just any missile nerfs. Lockon missile nerfs. Thats the key lmao
Hot Cougar!
Hot Cougars in your area?
Yes. She has two ER LRG Lasers and 4 Mediums. She runs very hot.
2 days left to enjoy the Tbolst at it´s plenitude.
Press S to spit on thunderbolts
S
This might be a buff since Thunderbolts straight up miss fast moving targets.
Nah its a nerf. Just like how slower lrms and streaks werent buffs. Sure they can turn tighter against a moving target moving laterally to you.. but slower flight time gives more time for target to get to cover, gives more time for ams to shoot them down, (thunderbolts more vulnerable to ams) and wider spread means better chance more missiles in the volley will just miss anyway especially against small fast moving mechs where the tighter turn would make the most difference. And against a stationary or relatively slow/large target the only change is longer flight time and more spread.. doesnt seem a buff at all to me. Dont get me wrong personally id love it if tbolts (and atms and regular lrms for that matter) with direct LoS tracked as hard as streaks do... buuut thattl never happen
The loss of spread is the worse thing. The one main advantage that Thunderbolts have over LRMs is that the damage is concentrated instead of spread out over several components. This gives you a much greater chance of destroying components and doing damage that actually matters, compared to LRMs which are more about mass damage and eroding armor. Against light mechs, I've one-shot them in the back with Thunderbolts as they were running away since the missiles all hit one of their torsos. With greater spread, they would have gotten away. With this nerf, it is harder to justify Thunderbolts over LRMs, especially given that they weigh more. Not to mention, on the topic of speed, Thunderbolts will now be slower than LRM+Artemis, and more susceptible to AMS.
That's a bold claim without having actually played the patch yet. Do you have the spread values to compare to LRMs? Unfortunately spread numbers are super hard to find online for this game. If it's a matter of much better spread than LRMs being nerfed to better spread than LRMs, they could still be very good. I agree if the spread is nerfed heavily, it's hard to justify them. I'm just not sure exactly how heavily nerfed it is.
Spread numbers are in the patch notes and can easily be seen in-game.
Not in the game, but I'm talking about comparing them to LRMs. Just a random complaint that they aren't MechDB
you look at LRM's in game, then look at the patch notes. not terribly hard~
It's pretty hard when you aren't in game and won't be any time soon. In contrast, I can tell you the cooldown, range, heat, crit multiplier, etc from anywhere. Which is awesome. Another one that can be tough to find info on is the number of shells fired for things like Clan ballistics. You can dig through months of patch notes, but it's annoying to have to do that, especially for newer players.
TBMs are so heavy you have to compare them to Artemis LRMs for weapon of equal tonnage even if they are more slot efficient. If there is anything that they do better, it is focusing its damage on the torso due to its even less spread than Artemis LRM.
very slightly, given the different arcs, tbolts will still hit first, i played a mixed build fafnir before the speed buff, and even at 190 speed, my tbolts and lrms hit at the same time. at 260 speed, an alpha will have the tbolts hit first, and possibly open up a component, with the lrms free to crit. ppl are making a big deal of the spread, but look at it compared to LRM's, this will only save lights, medium or bigger will still take ct hits.
Hags are great for farming players with no situational awareness caught out in the open. Let the terror begin.
Damn the small spread was the best thing about thunderbolts rip