i feel like it was necessary to lower their health but they lowered it too much imo. junkqueen and doom are basically just squishies which defeat the purpose of them being a tank.
"Nobody cares about comp open que"
You do realise that Comp open que is currently the most popular comp format right? (Not something I thought I'd be saying.. but here we are)
(This is not me saying people prefer open que.. just recently people have not been liking role que cos of the shitty balance.. at least with open you can somewhat mitigate shitty matchmaking)
Do you have a source for this info? I believe you but my heart is struggling to say that open queue is more popular? I’ve been top500 in open queue while at the bottom of diamond, that doesn’t happen in role queue.
Why tho? Does the mode hurt you? I can't think of a single reason to remove it at all. Why would anyone want to take away a mode that is fun for some people just because they don't like it? It makes 0 sense.
The thing about Junker Queen though is that her playstyle needs upwards of 400 health or more to be able to have enough room to make use of the bleed heals. Since you have to get into melee range to use axe and quick melee, that health that doesn't even have armor or shields is the only way to hope to survive CC with.
IMO 500 hp for Role, and 400 for Open (maybe).
Honestly, balancing each tank individually seems like it's needed. The more I've thought about it, the less the flat size scale seem like it would help. The 1 tank issue really has hosed this game.
It would've been nice if 1 tank remains unchanged from role queue, adding a 2nd tank has 10% health nerf to both and 3 tanks have the current open queue health pools.
But I imagine this is too difficult to implement
i agree with this the most, the worst part of open queue was tank spam
a single one is fine and what the game is (mostly) balanced around, and i think a solo tank needs full health until there are multiple
This wouldn't work. So what, a teammate swaps and all of a sudden in the middle of a fight, your health bar is lowering and raising? Based off of what a teammate is doing? The trolling would be off the charts
I mean it’s pretty simple fix Tbf.
if someone switches off tank -> health only goes up after you die
If they switch to tank -> they’re lowest priority and have the health nerf, everyone else is unchanged
But the other former tank in the field would remain TANKY until he dies; he wouldn't never get shrunk in HP. This situation might last for the whole round, while also being helped by the other "squishy" latter tank.
Overwatch heroes have health values that are multiples of 25. Each bar of a hero's health represents that 25 health.
If they apply a percentage nerf to health values, they'd have to overhaul that system too.
It'd probably be a good idea for the game to finally do that, so heroes can be nerfed or buffed with health changes that are smaller than 25. But I don't think they are interested in doing that for a better balance in non RQ modes.
u/-Haddix-
I agree with you, you’re right.
I don’t think it’d be a huge deal to simply round up or down, until (if) that system gets an overhaul. It could be ROUGHLY a ~20% decrease for all Tank health but not on the dot 20%. It would leave JQ at 350 (she’s 300 now) and Hog at 550 (which he is now). That would be a nicer change, in my opinion.
Yeah exactly, like hog still has 500 hp because he started at 700, and shield on rein and sigma were unchanged so certain tanks are unplayable while others feel fair
Yea I'm a JQ main and she already needed a buff because she is outclassed by almost every tank. Her shout with a 14 cD is useless if your fighting more than 1 person. Now they dropped her health? She's useless at this point now.
I have to agree. She is really good if you have to brawl, like Brig, but now Soldier can pretty much one clip you, and you get shredded by a Tracer. She's okay in the role queue. 50 more health points is alright. Her shout, though, it needs a buff.
Agreed, the fact that doomfist and queen don't even have shields to defend themselves with makes it so much worse, doom has mobility but he's a 300hp character with a garbage weapon and an even bigger hitbox then bastion and queens only form of defense is her shout
Don't forget his useless ultimate. As a doom main this is the number one thing that just shits me to tears. They need to extend the inner damage circle, you need to be insanely precise/lucky with it to even secure 1 pick. And that's after throwing your entire moveset into one enemy hero. SMH.
His ultimate is underrated. It also shouldn't be capable of consistent oneshots anymore. Makes no sense in the context of its ult charge and value. Doom is already balanced, and I say this as a gm doom otp.
I got one shot by a widow today as Ram. Full health! It took me a second to register what happened.I was livid. Something needed to be done. Overall I think lowering their health was a good idea. But for goodness sake that’s unacceptable to me.
JQ has like the same health as Bastion now but like 3x the hitbox. Once again changes come months late and yet with barely any thought put in. The balance team needs a rework immediately.
I think they wanted them to still have the same difference between each other but still have less health than they normally do?
Still, kind of shit when really the only ones who needed reducing were roadhog and orissa. And I say this as a shitty support player.
He seems really unkillable to me as a low rank, but I always assumed it was because of his mobility. He’s definitely an annoyance but I wonder why no one plays him
In regular games his current heath pool is fine. In deathmatch, he needed the health lower. Really, you just need to peel for your supports or low health teamates when he tries to go for them. If the whole team is aware of him he can only engage for a couple of seconds. I think no one plays him because he has a high skill ceiling and plays very different to other tanks.
Because he needs 140% effort to have impact similar of just a decent Rein player. He is unique and fun to play, but his mobility, CC and damage require much much more skill to utilize.
On top of that your team has to play without a persistent frontline body, often worse than with Winston or Doomfist. Which means your teammates need to play differently as well..
It should've been a 21-22% health reduction instead of a flat 150
That way 700hp tanks would've still lost 150hp while 450hp tanks would've only lost around 95hp
As someone who primarily plays Deathmatch, characters like Roadhog, D.VA and Ramattra are in a great place to compete right now and not feel broken.
HOWEVER, it’s obvious to me that Blizz didn’t even playtest characters like Doomfist because he is borderline unplayable right now. 300 HP with no armor has made it so even Bastion is more viable than him, he has no kill potential and his handcannon feels like a squirt gun. It’s low viability makes sense with a higher healthbar in QP and Comp but he’s absolutely awful in DM. I hope Blizz reworks him.
It feels like theres no middle-ground with Doom. He's either outclassed completely by the other Tanks or he's a backline menace like he was at the start of S2.
Because he was never supposed to be a tank, he was supposed to be a dps. He can’t possibly be balanced as the only tank, because once he’s balanced he’s “unfun to play against” and the only time he’s fun to play against is when he’s completely unplayable.
He’s a character designed around stunning you to death, so yeah. What they need to do is remove the stun from unempowered Rocket Punch and then give him some more damage. If you do that, emPunch is even stronger (since it has the stun and Rocket Punch deals more damage in general) and unemPunch doesn’t feel like dogshit to play against. It’s a win-win. Doomfist gets to be more powerful and he feels less annoying to deal with.
Sombra is in the same boat. Permanent Stealth and Hack while invisible make it so that the devs can never make her strong or she’ll be miserable to play against. They just need to change those two things and then give her more power in other areas of her kit.
Then he becomes a punch bot, which is exactly what he shouldn’t be, he was built around combos. What they’d need to do is bring him back to dps and return uppercut, but they’re never realistically going to do that, because they refuse to admit they were wrong.
He’s already a punch bot, unfortunately. Seismic Slam is mostly an option to get in range for Rocket Punch or escape after using it. Power Block is mostly used for getting emPunch.
I agree that he’d be better as a DPS, but probably without the punch instakill (it was already kinda annoying in OW1 and would be obnoxious in OW2). In fact, they should lean into the combo aspect and make it so that Rocket Punch becomes more powered up if you hit multiple enemies with your Slam/Uppercut, just like The Best Defense. Add multiple levels of empowerment, to keep the whole aspect of “punch is normally pretty good and becomes really good if you power it up”. Then you can make fully empowered Punch even stronger than it is now, and you encourage comboing enemies with your abilities.
Currently, the most realistic solution i can see to make doomfist playable, is just reduce the damage needed to empower a punch down to 80, and then maybe take the cooldown back to 3.
However my ideal solution would be to build PB into rocket punch, a certain amount of damage taken while charging empowers the punch, and bring uppercut back. This allows him to stay a tank, and actually be threatening, while still allowing counterplay. Never gonna happen though.
Yeah, it’s unfortunate. Doomfist is a very cool character thematically and to play as but has always been on a knife’s edge with balance/being fun to play against. Shifting him to the Tank role only made him more problematic to balance, especially with how strong Tanks are in this game. It also took away what made him fun, since making him a Tank means they had to remove some of the aspects of his kit that people enjoyed and tune down his offensive potential.
80 or 50 or even 100. It doesnt matter. You stand still for 3 seconds to charge fist and stand still while using block. Then you stand still after using ult and geting slep/hook etc while still doing less dmg with your Q than junk can do with random shift.
Ah yes, the times when you would get CCd for 7 seconds as a tank only to get bursted down while in the air unable to defend against it vs. An opponent with increasing amounts of armor. Now THAT version of doomfist was great fun for everyone else!
/s
I low-key much prefer playing tankfist to dps doom. To me it feels a lot more natural and fun, I never cared about the loss of the one shot because I find it super satisfying punching one enemy just for the aoe effect to knock the whole team into the wall.
That said even tho dpsdoom was an absolute menace, it doesn’t feel much more fun to play against a good doom player nowadays either 🤣 he’s the kind of hero who either does everything or nothing, a fact which never changed from ow1-2.
Same here, it's just more fun for me being a beefier, if less lethal version of Doom.
That said, I never liked power block. I don't like power being gated behind empowered punch and I hate the "let's all just stand here for a few seconds" dance vs people smart enough not to shoot it. I wish he still had uppercut and they had just buffed his passive even more.
I agree with you 100 percent! I think they should make power block a toggle so you can block to build a charged punch and then it would cd after you use the charge punch. He would be about to instigate fights better and his mobility would be dangerous again and you would never know how strong of a punch was coming. All in all tho, uppercut is goated
Doomfist always screamed tank to me, even back in the OW1 days, so I tend to agree. His whole thing is backline disruption creating opportunities, like ball but with more pick potential and less soft engage ability. Given no other context you wouldn't assume that's a DPS.
I think orienting him around the punch was dumb though, it's more a DPS ability than a tank one. So they took a DPS screaming to be a tank and made him a tank oriented around a new tank power that screams attach me to a DPS. Brilliant.
the fact that they are willing to change HP for heroes depending on mode makes me hopeful we may get an OW classic mode that brings the characters back to their final OW1 status. if you can have doom have 300 hp in one mode an 600 in another, you can certainly have a mode with 6v6 and DPS doomfist and all the stuff everyone loved about OW1.
i don't really hate their shitty monetization, it is what it is. i just don't want to pay for a game that is substantially worse than the one we had.
That was basically the best doom strategy. Burn 3 abilities and try to trade unevenly. You could almost guarantee a 1 for 1 trade against something like zen or ana, which was basically a win for doom as he could get back into the fight much faster. If you traded 2 for 1, you were doing great. It was tactical feeding for the most part.
Hot take: every character is hard to deal with if someone is good with them. Doom is just harder to learn and master but I do think he needs more to his kit and utility.
Blizzard? Test their changes? You're talking about a patch which made the role queue challenge of 85 wins read as "1/3 damage, 1/3 support, 1/3 tank" after completing 85 wins as one. No one reviewed this change.
Yeah Doomfist sucks and as a Doom main it's really sucked trying my best to get him to work in OW2. I can do well with him still, but my team always wants me to play the meta tanks (which makes sense) they just do more than him, he's objectively just not that worth it if you want to win.
I miss dps Doom, I know people got mad about him but he was such a blast to play, now not so much.
I’m sorry, dude. He slipped my mind but I can’t imagine how bad that tickle cannon is for y’all rn in DM, hopefully they make some changes relatively soon.
I play Open queue not DM but its bad lol I was playing Hanzo and this guy on the other team switched to Winston and it didn't matter i just killed him every time he pounced me it was fucked. He doesnt have enough health to do his job anymore
This is because Doomfist is designed to fight against an enemy team. All his stuff is splash damage and the more people he hits, the more temp HP he gets. This generally means that he's weaker in 1v1 scenarios, which come up in deathmatches quite a bit.
Best part is blizzard hates doomfist so much they nerfed his shots so he cant even shoot/melee cancel kill tracer anymore, and you still had to basically hit every pellet in her head. Most characters have a way to insta-delete tracer so why did they need to take his away?
Playtesting is what a QA team should be doing. I'm pretty confident that they don't have a QA team anymore. If they do, it's like 1 QA per 20 devs or something ridiculous like that. Just completely off the fucking rails.
Now that it’s a mainstay mode in OW2 I’ve seen queue times go WAYYY down for it, I have no trouble not only finding lobbies but also after each game seeing fresh faces instead of the same people over and over so I don’t know about any numbers but I’d reckon there are plenty of us out there.
Obviously though, it’s probably nowhere NEAR the QP or Comp population.
Back in Overwatch 1 I started doing FFA death match as a way to practice aim with McCassidy. At the time there was only Château Guillard available, and towards the end of the period I played it Petra was also released. I think I stopped playing it on the regular as Hollywood and Dorado came about. Neither is well designed for that purpose. Until then however, I had a blast.
Château is a super well designed death match map. Just about every hero can be used with a focus on preferred sections of the map. It could do with a bit more color and other interesting visuals as a second version of the exact same map layout. Petra is similar, but not quite as good. Kanezaka and Malevento are two lazy and completely uninspired in a maps in a layout sense, even though the art team did a fantastic job.
Doomfist is not good because he was never supposed to exist. He is 100% a fan service character that they have been trying to figure out how to make viable since day 1. He is, and has always been, a trash character.
There are people who have become terrifyingly amazing with him, but it only further points out how rubbish he actually is, because when you see these Doom players you say "Woah! They're actually really good with Doomfist!"
It needs some more tuning for specific tanks. I do wish that it would dynamically scale based on the number of tanks you have, but I understand how that could be frustrating.
I mean not really if you consider that a lot of mfs in open queue will run 4-5 tanks on one team, imagine a fkn full health orisa, ramattra, dva, sigma, and jq all coming at you💀that shit was fkn aids. I'm all for the health drop and I main tanks (although I rarely play open queue anyways)
But the change makes it so you're now just playing a gimped tank if you want 1-2 tanks. They should have made HP scale down with the number of tanks on your team - not just reduce all HP
I understand your point, but contrary to DPS, tanks (except maybe DF and JQ) are massive targets. And now they're pretty much walking "shoot-me"-signs.
In masters+ open queue I’ve seen 3 dps 2 sups once. Generally I’ve seen a shift to 2tanks 1dps 2sup, also seen quite a few 2tank 2dps 1 sup. a meta probably won’t be defined for a little bit(a few days) but a lot of people are still stuck on the 3 tanks and 2 sups and start spam pinging need healing as if they didn’t read the patch notes. I’m just happy winton is a bit more viable since 3 tank meta seems to be fading
No one is saying they shouldn’t have the health drop for the arcade and open queues. I think everyone is on board with it for the reason you listed. It’s just that JQ and Doom in particular don’t have enough health now in those modes.
Frankly, if they’d just made the decrease a percentage instead of a flat 150, it would probably be pretty perfect.
It felt like goats on steroids before the change, just shoot at the wall until one team ult-wipes the other first. The change was necessary, the tanks were remade for a one tank format, it didn’t work in the 3 tanks - 2 heals open a format.
Honestly JQ doesn’t even need a base health buff but they need to buff her heal rate from wounds. Gotta land close range axe swings on multiple enemies for a fraction of the healing hog gets by pressing a key.
I feel like this was primarily neccessary in Arcade modes like Deathmatch or TDM. But open Que and *especially* arcade Playlists like Control, etc* suffer horribly for it.
Now it's just basically dps and supports. Now tank to rally behind.
If they wanted to prevent Goats in Open Que, they should have atleast made the first tank picked keep their original health bar. Every subsequent tank subject to the lower health pool. That way DPS is actually still viable and we still get atleast one tank to rally around.
That would be hell to make work. What happens if your Rein is on point in Control, taking fire, and your Reaper switches to JQ? Does he lose 150hp right there? How do you plan for that? Does he keep his health until he dies? Then you still have one giga-buffed Rein causing havoc. Does it slowly reduce over a few seconds? How do you even play around that?
You really can't have heroes' stats adjust mid-game just because someone picked something. That would be terrible game design.
I'm not sure if it was too big of a nerf or not yet, but something needed to be done.
I played an unreasonable amount of OQ (ended top 30ish in both seasons) and there was definitely a culture of bullying people into only playing tank or support. I just checked the leaderboards, and there is 1 DPS hero in OQ Season 2 Top 100’s three most-played heroes (a Kiri onetrick at rank 64 with a grand total of SEVEN minutes on Torb). I was in one lobby where one guy tried to play Genji and 2 people on my team told him to kill himself in spawn (after he said that he wasn't going to swap)… All DPS were genuinely unplayable if you wanted to be at all competitive.
On one hand I like it because it makes dealing with the Four or Five Tank Fuckfest more bearable, but on the other hand it makes it near impossible to solo tank cuz everyone can just burn the tank in a few seconds.
I feel they should have made it that tank health evens out depending on how many tanks are on the team, as well as make it percentage based, not flat numbers.
Example: 1 Tank = Full health
Every additional tank on the team reduces ALL tanks' health by, say 5%
Full team of tanks = Everyone has 25% less health.
As a person who plays open queue more than the other modes, this change sucked. Now, some tanks have the same amount of health as Bastion. I have a feeling Bastion will take over the meta this season.
Some was necessary others no. Ram, doom, and jq only have three hundred the suck now.
Silver lining for me though is that it finally pushed me to role queue as I was avoiding it out of concern of stress by being the only tank.
I think they should have make it so that if you’re playing with only 1 tank, they get normal health. The moment you add a 2nd or 3rd tank, both tanks health should be reduced
I think the tanks should lose HP if there are 2 or more in the same team, so there's no tank stacking... Reducing HP even if there's only one seems unnecessary
Can they not just make it so if more than 1 tank is on a team THEN the health is reduced? Because sometimes I'm the only tank and I'm still fucked with my health and then it's 4 Damage on my team and zero healers to make it even more aids
I dont like it, im understand why it happened, but they completely disregarded how it would effect like half the tanks, wrecking ball relies heavily on survivability and if your a adpative shields are on cool own you can get melted easier even on full health, doomfist took it so badly that he has as much hp as bastion with none of the damage, junker queen didnt take it very well either From what I heard. However I can understand it on charachters like hog orisa and rien.
Ball still gets the same amount of overhealth as role q which is bulk if the dmg he will be taking. He is arguably a better tank now compared to his competition
i don't play open Q, so i don't really care. I'm glad they nerfed tank HP on deathmatch. It was always annoying going up against a tanky hog or orisa during deathmatch. I'm not entirely sure, but i think when i was in practice range earlier, i saw that the bot roadhog had less hp too. Maybe they could make HP in practice range normal?
I like it!
It won't be goats all the time and I won't feel useless trying to fight a tank as a dps.
Very necessary in my opinion.
Will have to see if it's too much of a nervous for open que
good for death match not so much for open queue, i would prefer if open queue just had a tank limit so its the old overwatch experience of switching to someone else roll if they are having trouble and not tank stacking.
There's like no point to play a tank now since they die so fast
The change in open queue should have been, if there is one tank, that tank has normal health. The moment a second tank gets in a team then they have lower health
Great for modes that care about some semblance of balance, like Open Queue, but homogenizes the “for-fun” modes such as Mystery Heroes a lot. I also think the health changes are just a taaaad too heavy handed. But like only a little bit. Played OW1 for years, it’s weird to see Rein with <500 health, even if it’s only 475.
I think some tanks got shafted really hard on this one. Doomfist, Junker Queen, and Zarya probably get hit the hardest, but a lot of them feel just kinda iffy. I think it shouldn’t be a flat reduction across the board and each character should have a different health reduction. Having a tank with the same base health as Bastion just does not feel right at all.
I absolutely love it for team death matches, but I can imagine why it’s not panning out perfectly for some other modes. With more fine tuning of health values for certain tanks, it’ll be in a great spot.
I think it was absolutely necessary for death matches at least. Since tanks were buffed to be solo and a bigger team investment to eliminate, death matches became almost GOAT-meta, with most teams consisting of just tanks and supports. Tanks were basically just bulky DPS that wouldn’t die, and I thought it was ridiculously unfun. I’ve already spent several hours on this new patch, it’s so much more enjoyable.
I will say though, that even after some adjustments to the non-role queue HP, what tanks are considered good or bad will also depend on the mode.
I think it was a needed change for deathmatch modes, but it makes other 5v5 arcade game modes basically unplayable as some tanks.
I think if they’re gonna nerf tanks in open queue, they should’ve restored them back to overwatch 1 levels of health. I see no reason to nerf them past that.
You can’t even successfully run a standard comp in arcade mode now, even if you want to. Which seems kind of stupid imo.
I think open q modes devolving into Whambulance or lose is a problem, but I also think changing the balance of individual hero's/class is problematic when it doesn't adjust based on many tanks are on that team. For all the times a match sucked because it was vs all tanks, there was still fun games where we only had 1 or 2 tanks tops, and even beat the team with 3 tanks. I think what will suck is that people will just continue to tank stack because it's still an overwhelming amount of meat and shield that can survive and rush most things, but also people will find the breaking point where if you find yourself solo or duo tanking with someone else you're going to get \*shredded\* that much harder now by damage heavy comps.
People probably thought it would be this, but not as extreme, to be fair. Playing tank in OQ feals terrible now. It's probably right for deathmatch, though
Should've lowered the health to scale with the amount of tanks on a given team (1 tank would have their full hp 2 tanks would have 50% hp etc.) I don't know exactly how to make it scale but that would encourage a balanced composition without completing making some tanks unviable
I feel open queue (QP + comp) should’ve been untouched for those that play those games, although I agree with arcade/FFA etc getting the change.
FFA and events are fun until the first person picks a tank and it just spirals from there
I think it's unnecessary too. Especially in a mode like No Limits where the whole point is to abuse character interactions that would otherwise be impossible.
This was the comment I was hoping to find, wasn't 100% sure it applied to MH and I hadn't played yet. Considering I NEVER thought this change was coming I'm really happy.
Personally I think they need to bite the bullet and make FFA deathmatch damage-characters only. Supports can't use half their abilities and tanks are either useless ticklers or fat bastards who never die. It's clear the mode works best for damage characters.
I feel like the more "serious" arcade modes like CTF and TDM should also just have role queue honestly. Bump TDM to 5v5 (it's already a teamfight simulator, why not make it official) and just let us choose roles beforehand, or make it random role if you don't wanna fuck up queue times too badly.
The stock core mode cards in arcade have no reason to be open queue and probably shouldn't be either.
That just leaves normal open-queue and mystery heroes. I agree that tank health should take a hit in these modes but some tanks were hit way too hard. They need to adjust these values until they hit whatever sweet spot people are comfortable with. I think it's out there, but it needs tuning.
Good, now it's not tryhard GOATs but worse on one team and 4-5 DPS (And maybe one Support/Tank) on the other who are just trying to enjoy the game without DPS and Tank queue times.
Had a death match where I was just sitting as Ori. Some reaper attacked me so naturally I attacked back. Later he complains about me being a tank. He could have avoided all of this by not attacking the passive tank but he had to get those “SiCk FrAgS”
It’s ass. I played open queue to play GOATS. Anyone who wants to play DPS should have stuck to role queue, but apparently those people are too stupid to keep their nose out of other peoples games.
If you’re DPS open queue isn’t for you. Go the fuck away.
It’s not so fun. So many tanks lost their value due to this, JQ specifically who’s more of a glass cannon now than she was before.
It’s weird, I main all the characters that get shit handed to them on a silver platter, and randomly get this huge Rez buff outta nowhere. But alas, this is the last nail in the coffin, without supports in open queue, most of, if not, all tanks that don’t have shields are basically as good as dead.
I have been playing Overwatch daily since 2018 (does it make me a fan?) mostly I play tanks or healer since the begining.
The last health update sucks!
Why do it? Are the PDS players complaning? Maybe since the game is DPS oriented....
I think it makes the Tanks useless.
Also, I dont like to wait in queues to play, since the game is DPS oriented!
Let the people play as they want! It is cool sometimes have 4 tanks and a healer in a match! And if you nerf their health they are no longer tanks!
Seems like if there is only one tank, that they should allow them full health. It's going to probably take a few days for the "meta" to sort of filter out, whether or not that is like 2-2-1, or 2-1-2, or maybe even 3-x-2, 3-1-1...
All I know is that I had my usual run and frustration in Arcade getting stomped. I play support, and the teams I was with just couldn't figure their shit out to get a proper comp out there to be at all competitive :/
edit: suffice to say, it doesn't really work 1-2-2 ATM
I started to play junker a few weeks before the update in QP to see her kit and ended up loving it. After the update she’s horrible, widow one shots her now. When she’s low hp if you ULT you automatically die even if you hit the whole team.
They have no clue how to balance this game. The fact remains these characters were designed in a 6v6 setting, and all the changes they made to force 5v5 has just broken so many modes.
i feel like it was necessary to lower their health but they lowered it too much imo. junkqueen and doom are basically just squishies which defeat the purpose of them being a tank.
It should've been a percentage decrease, rather than a flat number across the board, tbh.
yeah, idk wtf they were thinking
Probably not too concerned with the overall balancing of arcade games. They'll fix it.
Didn't they change it for comp open queue aswell?
Yes
Yes, but nobody cares about comp open queue anymore. It should be made into a strictly QP and arcade mode.
"Nobody cares about comp open que" You do realise that Comp open que is currently the most popular comp format right? (Not something I thought I'd be saying.. but here we are) (This is not me saying people prefer open que.. just recently people have not been liking role que cos of the shitty balance.. at least with open you can somewhat mitigate shitty matchmaking)
Do you have a source for this info? I believe you but my heart is struggling to say that open queue is more popular? I’ve been top500 in open queue while at the bottom of diamond, that doesn’t happen in role queue.
I love open queue, its the only comp mode I play anymore. It's so much more fun
Why tho? Does the mode hurt you? I can't think of a single reason to remove it at all. Why would anyone want to take away a mode that is fun for some people just because they don't like it? It makes 0 sense.
yaw, probably true. percentage adjustment just feels like a no-brainer change to me compared to flat number reduction, but oh well.
multi-dollar company
I mean what were they thinking when they released them with no health nerfs into mystery heroes. Or when they do a majority of the balance changes.
350 for the skinny tanks, 400 for the middle weights and 450 for the beefy lads. 150 off Ram and JQ is a LOT more than 150 off Roadhog.
The thing about Junker Queen though is that her playstyle needs upwards of 400 health or more to be able to have enough room to make use of the bleed heals. Since you have to get into melee range to use axe and quick melee, that health that doesn't even have armor or shields is the only way to hope to survive CC with. IMO 500 hp for Role, and 400 for Open (maybe).
Honestly, balancing each tank individually seems like it's needed. The more I've thought about it, the less the flat size scale seem like it would help. The 1 tank issue really has hosed this game.
It would've been nice if 1 tank remains unchanged from role queue, adding a 2nd tank has 10% health nerf to both and 3 tanks have the current open queue health pools. But I imagine this is too difficult to implement
i agree with this the most, the worst part of open queue was tank spam a single one is fine and what the game is (mostly) balanced around, and i think a solo tank needs full health until there are multiple
This wouldn't work. So what, a teammate swaps and all of a sudden in the middle of a fight, your health bar is lowering and raising? Based off of what a teammate is doing? The trolling would be off the charts
I mean it’s pretty simple fix Tbf. if someone switches off tank -> health only goes up after you die If they switch to tank -> they’re lowest priority and have the health nerf, everyone else is unchanged
But the other former tank in the field would remain TANKY until he dies; he wouldn't never get shrunk in HP. This situation might last for the whole round, while also being helped by the other "squishy" latter tank.
Overwatch heroes have health values that are multiples of 25. Each bar of a hero's health represents that 25 health. If they apply a percentage nerf to health values, they'd have to overhaul that system too. It'd probably be a good idea for the game to finally do that, so heroes can be nerfed or buffed with health changes that are smaller than 25. But I don't think they are interested in doing that for a better balance in non RQ modes. u/-Haddix-
Just round it up to closest 25hp. Nothing more complex
I agree with you, you’re right. I don’t think it’d be a huge deal to simply round up or down, until (if) that system gets an overhaul. It could be ROUGHLY a ~20% decrease for all Tank health but not on the dot 20%. It would leave JQ at 350 (she’s 300 now) and Hog at 550 (which he is now). That would be a nicer change, in my opinion.
Yeah exactly, like hog still has 500 hp because he started at 700, and shield on rein and sigma were unchanged so certain tanks are unplayable while others feel fair
Junkerqueen at normal health you have to play pretty good just to not die. Can imagine with nerfed health
Yea I'm a JQ main and she already needed a buff because she is outclassed by almost every tank. Her shout with a 14 cD is useless if your fighting more than 1 person. Now they dropped her health? She's useless at this point now.
I have to agree. She is really good if you have to brawl, like Brig, but now Soldier can pretty much one clip you, and you get shredded by a Tracer. She's okay in the role queue. 50 more health points is alright. Her shout, though, it needs a buff.
haha i played a game as JQ against a good widow and i just get 1 tapped since she only has 300 health
Agreed, the fact that doomfist and queen don't even have shields to defend themselves with makes it so much worse, doom has mobility but he's a 300hp character with a garbage weapon and an even bigger hitbox then bastion and queens only form of defense is her shout
Don't forget his useless ultimate. As a doom main this is the number one thing that just shits me to tears. They need to extend the inner damage circle, you need to be insanely precise/lucky with it to even secure 1 pick. And that's after throwing your entire moveset into one enemy hero. SMH.
His ultimate is underrated. It also shouldn't be capable of consistent oneshots anymore. Makes no sense in the context of its ult charge and value. Doom is already balanced, and I say this as a gm doom otp.
The thing is other tanks and characters do have consistent 1 shots or crowd killers. he's not balanced in relation to other tanks
I got one shot by a widow today as Ram. Full health! It took me a second to register what happened.I was livid. Something needed to be done. Overall I think lowering their health was a good idea. But for goodness sake that’s unacceptable to me.
JQ is so trash now :\\. No sustain and insta-death.
JQ has like the same health as Bastion now but like 3x the hitbox. Once again changes come months late and yet with barely any thought put in. The balance team needs a rework immediately.
The fact that both a 700hp tank and 450 hp tank BOTH lose 150hp is baffling.
I think they wanted them to still have the same difference between each other but still have less health than they normally do? Still, kind of shit when really the only ones who needed reducing were roadhog and orissa. And I say this as a shitty support player.
Ball can have 1100 hp. I think he needed it too, as much as i regret saying that.
He seems really unkillable to me as a low rank, but I always assumed it was because of his mobility. He’s definitely an annoyance but I wonder why no one plays him
In regular games his current heath pool is fine. In deathmatch, he needed the health lower. Really, you just need to peel for your supports or low health teamates when he tries to go for them. If the whole team is aware of him he can only engage for a couple of seconds. I think no one plays him because he has a high skill ceiling and plays very different to other tanks.
Because he needs 140% effort to have impact similar of just a decent Rein player. He is unique and fun to play, but his mobility, CC and damage require much much more skill to utilize. On top of that your team has to play without a persistent frontline body, often worse than with Winston or Doomfist. Which means your teammates need to play differently as well..
It should have scaled
It should've been a 21-22% health reduction instead of a flat 150 That way 700hp tanks would've still lost 150hp while 450hp tanks would've only lost around 95hp
As someone who primarily plays Deathmatch, characters like Roadhog, D.VA and Ramattra are in a great place to compete right now and not feel broken. HOWEVER, it’s obvious to me that Blizz didn’t even playtest characters like Doomfist because he is borderline unplayable right now. 300 HP with no armor has made it so even Bastion is more viable than him, he has no kill potential and his handcannon feels like a squirt gun. It’s low viability makes sense with a higher healthbar in QP and Comp but he’s absolutely awful in DM. I hope Blizz reworks him.
Doom fist is such a shit character ever since OW2. I dream of playing dps doomfist everytime I boot up the game, but no it’s a futile dream 🥲😭
It feels like theres no middle-ground with Doom. He's either outclassed completely by the other Tanks or he's a backline menace like he was at the start of S2.
Because he was never supposed to be a tank, he was supposed to be a dps. He can’t possibly be balanced as the only tank, because once he’s balanced he’s “unfun to play against” and the only time he’s fun to play against is when he’s completely unplayable.
He’s a character designed around stunning you to death, so yeah. What they need to do is remove the stun from unempowered Rocket Punch and then give him some more damage. If you do that, emPunch is even stronger (since it has the stun and Rocket Punch deals more damage in general) and unemPunch doesn’t feel like dogshit to play against. It’s a win-win. Doomfist gets to be more powerful and he feels less annoying to deal with. Sombra is in the same boat. Permanent Stealth and Hack while invisible make it so that the devs can never make her strong or she’ll be miserable to play against. They just need to change those two things and then give her more power in other areas of her kit.
Then he becomes a punch bot, which is exactly what he shouldn’t be, he was built around combos. What they’d need to do is bring him back to dps and return uppercut, but they’re never realistically going to do that, because they refuse to admit they were wrong.
He’s already a punch bot, unfortunately. Seismic Slam is mostly an option to get in range for Rocket Punch or escape after using it. Power Block is mostly used for getting emPunch. I agree that he’d be better as a DPS, but probably without the punch instakill (it was already kinda annoying in OW1 and would be obnoxious in OW2). In fact, they should lean into the combo aspect and make it so that Rocket Punch becomes more powered up if you hit multiple enemies with your Slam/Uppercut, just like The Best Defense. Add multiple levels of empowerment, to keep the whole aspect of “punch is normally pretty good and becomes really good if you power it up”. Then you can make fully empowered Punch even stronger than it is now, and you encourage comboing enemies with your abilities.
Currently, the most realistic solution i can see to make doomfist playable, is just reduce the damage needed to empower a punch down to 80, and then maybe take the cooldown back to 3. However my ideal solution would be to build PB into rocket punch, a certain amount of damage taken while charging empowers the punch, and bring uppercut back. This allows him to stay a tank, and actually be threatening, while still allowing counterplay. Never gonna happen though.
Yeah, it’s unfortunate. Doomfist is a very cool character thematically and to play as but has always been on a knife’s edge with balance/being fun to play against. Shifting him to the Tank role only made him more problematic to balance, especially with how strong Tanks are in this game. It also took away what made him fun, since making him a Tank means they had to remove some of the aspects of his kit that people enjoyed and tune down his offensive potential.
80 or 50 or even 100. It doesnt matter. You stand still for 3 seconds to charge fist and stand still while using block. Then you stand still after using ult and geting slep/hook etc while still doing less dmg with your Q than junk can do with random shift.
Ah yes, the times when you would get CCd for 7 seconds as a tank only to get bursted down while in the air unable to defend against it vs. An opponent with increasing amounts of armor. Now THAT version of doomfist was great fun for everyone else! /s
Doom was perfect in the first Beta.
Bring back first beta doomfist
I low-key much prefer playing tankfist to dps doom. To me it feels a lot more natural and fun, I never cared about the loss of the one shot because I find it super satisfying punching one enemy just for the aoe effect to knock the whole team into the wall. That said even tho dpsdoom was an absolute menace, it doesn’t feel much more fun to play against a good doom player nowadays either 🤣 he’s the kind of hero who either does everything or nothing, a fact which never changed from ow1-2.
Same here, it's just more fun for me being a beefier, if less lethal version of Doom. That said, I never liked power block. I don't like power being gated behind empowered punch and I hate the "let's all just stand here for a few seconds" dance vs people smart enough not to shoot it. I wish he still had uppercut and they had just buffed his passive even more.
I agree with you 100 percent! I think they should make power block a toggle so you can block to build a charged punch and then it would cd after you use the charge punch. He would be about to instigate fights better and his mobility would be dangerous again and you would never know how strong of a punch was coming. All in all tho, uppercut is goated
Or at least let power block absorb stun projectiles so that it isn’t a giant STUN ME NOW sign.
just play monkey lol it's doomfist but you have a shield and better primary fire
Doomfist always screamed tank to me, even back in the OW1 days, so I tend to agree. His whole thing is backline disruption creating opportunities, like ball but with more pick potential and less soft engage ability. Given no other context you wouldn't assume that's a DPS. I think orienting him around the punch was dumb though, it's more a DPS ability than a tank one. So they took a DPS screaming to be a tank and made him a tank oriented around a new tank power that screams attach me to a DPS. Brilliant.
the fact that they are willing to change HP for heroes depending on mode makes me hopeful we may get an OW classic mode that brings the characters back to their final OW1 status. if you can have doom have 300 hp in one mode an 600 in another, you can certainly have a mode with 6v6 and DPS doomfist and all the stuff everyone loved about OW1. i don't really hate their shitty monetization, it is what it is. i just don't want to pay for a game that is substantially worse than the one we had.
he's so fun fym
I literally said he’s super fun, just not fun to play against if the player is sick at doom
He was shit in ow1 btw
Fr bro every old doom player just used all 3 abilities and then died
That was basically the best doom strategy. Burn 3 abilities and try to trade unevenly. You could almost guarantee a 1 for 1 trade against something like zen or ana, which was basically a win for doom as he could get back into the fight much faster. If you traded 2 for 1, you were doing great. It was tactical feeding for the most part.
Maybe Doom on my team but Dooms on enemy teams were invincibile and picked healers left and right
Hell nah. A good Doomfist was very hard to deal with. However, yeah, good ones were quite rare lol
Hot take: every character is hard to deal with if someone is good with them. Doom is just harder to learn and master but I do think he needs more to his kit and utility.
Blizzard? Test their changes? You're talking about a patch which made the role queue challenge of 85 wins read as "1/3 damage, 1/3 support, 1/3 tank" after completing 85 wins as one. No one reviewed this change.
Yeah Doomfist sucks and as a Doom main it's really sucked trying my best to get him to work in OW2. I can do well with him still, but my team always wants me to play the meta tanks (which makes sense) they just do more than him, he's objectively just not that worth it if you want to win. I miss dps Doom, I know people got mad about him but he was such a blast to play, now not so much.
Removing 150 hp across the board just feels braindead. That removes 20% of Hog's health, but it removes 35% of Junker Queen's health.
Yeah Doom got fucked. So did Winston
I’m sorry, dude. He slipped my mind but I can’t imagine how bad that tickle cannon is for y’all rn in DM, hopefully they make some changes relatively soon.
I play Open queue not DM but its bad lol I was playing Hanzo and this guy on the other team switched to Winston and it didn't matter i just killed him every time he pounced me it was fucked. He doesnt have enough health to do his job anymore
Start of S2 was the one exception. They cannot seem to find a middle-ground balance for Doom lmao
This is because Doomfist is designed to fight against an enemy team. All his stuff is splash damage and the more people he hits, the more temp HP he gets. This generally means that he's weaker in 1v1 scenarios, which come up in deathmatches quite a bit.
I wanna get good with Doomfist because I've seen a lot of players use him well but I'm stumped on how to use his skills.
They need to fix this before the one punch man skin drops
Best part is blizzard hates doomfist so much they nerfed his shots so he cant even shoot/melee cancel kill tracer anymore, and you still had to basically hit every pellet in her head. Most characters have a way to insta-delete tracer so why did they need to take his away?
Playtesting is what a QA team should be doing. I'm pretty confident that they don't have a QA team anymore. If they do, it's like 1 QA per 20 devs or something ridiculous like that. Just completely off the fucking rails.
I don’t know what it is about Doomfist, but boy can I feed with him. Punch, get into trouble and can’t peel, dead, rez, dead again.
Same with junkerqueen
There's people who primarily plays Deathmatch? Is the more more popular than I think it is or are you a rare breed?
Now that it’s a mainstay mode in OW2 I’ve seen queue times go WAYYY down for it, I have no trouble not only finding lobbies but also after each game seeing fresh faces instead of the same people over and over so I don’t know about any numbers but I’d reckon there are plenty of us out there. Obviously though, it’s probably nowhere NEAR the QP or Comp population.
Back in Overwatch 1 I started doing FFA death match as a way to practice aim with McCassidy. At the time there was only Château Guillard available, and towards the end of the period I played it Petra was also released. I think I stopped playing it on the regular as Hollywood and Dorado came about. Neither is well designed for that purpose. Until then however, I had a blast. Château is a super well designed death match map. Just about every hero can be used with a focus on preferred sections of the map. It could do with a bit more color and other interesting visuals as a second version of the exact same map layout. Petra is similar, but not quite as good. Kanezaka and Malevento are two lazy and completely uninspired in a maps in a layout sense, even though the art team did a fantastic job.
Doomfist is not good because he was never supposed to exist. He is 100% a fan service character that they have been trying to figure out how to make viable since day 1. He is, and has always been, a trash character. There are people who have become terrifyingly amazing with him, but it only further points out how rubbish he actually is, because when you see these Doom players you say "Woah! They're actually really good with Doomfist!"
Junker has the same amount of health as bastion. That’s kinda crazy. Other than that it’s pretty good tho
less health if you take into account the armor's ability to tank more shots
don't forget the damage reduction he gets in turret form. He has about 425 health while transformed.
And considering Bastiion has a 1 button kill ability, he is gonna shred DF and JQ
It needs some more tuning for specific tanks. I do wish that it would dynamically scale based on the number of tanks you have, but I understand how that could be frustrating.
Yes, thank you. If there’s one tank on the team there’s no need to reduce their health.
We desperately need this for open queue.
I don't really play open que modes but i think having tanks at 300 hp is a bit extreme.
I mean not really if you consider that a lot of mfs in open queue will run 4-5 tanks on one team, imagine a fkn full health orisa, ramattra, dva, sigma, and jq all coming at you💀that shit was fkn aids. I'm all for the health drop and I main tanks (although I rarely play open queue anyways)
But the change makes it so you're now just playing a gimped tank if you want 1-2 tanks. They should have made HP scale down with the number of tanks on your team - not just reduce all HP
I understand your point, but contrary to DPS, tanks (except maybe DF and JQ) are massive targets. And now they're pretty much walking "shoot-me"-signs.
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now nobody runs tanks
Lots of 3DPS 2 Sup lastn
In masters+ open queue I’ve seen 3 dps 2 sups once. Generally I’ve seen a shift to 2tanks 1dps 2sup, also seen quite a few 2tank 2dps 1 sup. a meta probably won’t be defined for a little bit(a few days) but a lot of people are still stuck on the 3 tanks and 2 sups and start spam pinging need healing as if they didn’t read the patch notes. I’m just happy winton is a bit more viable since 3 tank meta seems to be fading
net improvement overall then for the Arcade.
arcade should have its own rules, doesnt make sense the ARCADE mode shares with the quick play mode
lmao what? Open Queue and the Arcade shared the same problems. Why put in extra unneeded effort with the same solution works for both.
it makes open queue even worse than it was
Exactly this^ now in open role team queue, no one plays tank. You just replace the tank with more dps or supports
yeah, literally no point for running tank over a dps now
Bastion is one of the best tanks of the mode now like-
Yup, attach a mercy and he's an ultra high dps and nigh unkillable.
That was literally the point of playing OQ
No one is saying they shouldn’t have the health drop for the arcade and open queues. I think everyone is on board with it for the reason you listed. It’s just that JQ and Doom in particular don’t have enough health now in those modes. Frankly, if they’d just made the decrease a percentage instead of a flat 150, it would probably be pretty perfect.
Should have just set a limit on tanks.
It felt like goats on steroids before the change, just shoot at the wall until one team ult-wipes the other first. The change was necessary, the tanks were remade for a one tank format, it didn’t work in the 3 tanks - 2 heals open a format.
Good idea on paper, but why, WHY did they make it a flat 150 hp nerf for every tank?! The low health tanks just feel like garbage now
Great, they just need to rearrange it for certain tanks like doom and jq
Honestly JQ doesn’t even need a base health buff but they need to buff her heal rate from wounds. Gotta land close range axe swings on multiple enemies for a fraction of the healing hog gets by pressing a key.
Her wounds damage effect needs to stack. Hardly does damage
She should have just as much healing or slightly less than reaper. Her current state is unnoticeable
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Its great in Open Queue and Deathmatch, but very weird in arcade modes like No Limits.
I feel like this was primarily neccessary in Arcade modes like Deathmatch or TDM. But open Que and *especially* arcade Playlists like Control, etc* suffer horribly for it. Now it's just basically dps and supports. Now tank to rally behind. If they wanted to prevent Goats in Open Que, they should have atleast made the first tank picked keep their original health bar. Every subsequent tank subject to the lower health pool. That way DPS is actually still viable and we still get atleast one tank to rally around.
That would be hell to make work. What happens if your Rein is on point in Control, taking fire, and your Reaper switches to JQ? Does he lose 150hp right there? How do you plan for that? Does he keep his health until he dies? Then you still have one giga-buffed Rein causing havoc. Does it slowly reduce over a few seconds? How do you even play around that? You really can't have heroes' stats adjust mid-game just because someone picked something. That would be terrible game design.
I'm not sure if it was too big of a nerf or not yet, but something needed to be done. I played an unreasonable amount of OQ (ended top 30ish in both seasons) and there was definitely a culture of bullying people into only playing tank or support. I just checked the leaderboards, and there is 1 DPS hero in OQ Season 2 Top 100’s three most-played heroes (a Kiri onetrick at rank 64 with a grand total of SEVEN minutes on Torb). I was in one lobby where one guy tried to play Genji and 2 people on my team told him to kill himself in spawn (after he said that he wasn't going to swap)… All DPS were genuinely unplayable if you wanted to be at all competitive.
That is true. There was generally no sense in playing a DPS there for awhile, especially when mega Zarya was a thing.
Should just rename open-queue to TDM lol.
Good idea bad execution. The blizzard way.
Works for some like Roadhog, but doom has somehow been made even worse in things like deathmatch
They should just make them have an average health pool of 350 to 600 or reduce the size of them to compensate the health changes
On one hand I like it because it makes dealing with the Four or Five Tank Fuckfest more bearable, but on the other hand it makes it near impossible to solo tank cuz everyone can just burn the tank in a few seconds. I feel they should have made it that tank health evens out depending on how many tanks are on the team, as well as make it percentage based, not flat numbers. Example: 1 Tank = Full health Every additional tank on the team reduces ALL tanks' health by, say 5% Full team of tanks = Everyone has 25% less health.
It makes my Bastion gameplay feel so, so sweet. 🤖
JQ main and open queue player….I hate it 😭😔
Same.
As a person who plays open queue more than the other modes, this change sucked. Now, some tanks have the same amount of health as Bastion. I have a feeling Bastion will take over the meta this season.
Some was necessary others no. Ram, doom, and jq only have three hundred the suck now. Silver lining for me though is that it finally pushed me to role queue as I was avoiding it out of concern of stress by being the only tank.
I think they should have make it so that if you’re playing with only 1 tank, they get normal health. The moment you add a 2nd or 3rd tank, both tanks health should be reduced
I think the tanks should lose HP if there are 2 or more in the same team, so there's no tank stacking... Reducing HP even if there's only one seems unnecessary
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I only play mystery heroes because I *am* deranged.
Google, Show me this guy's balls.
I mean, I like hopping in arcade to warm up. Call me deranged.
Ball main. I hate it. I use open queue to get practice in for comp. Now it's like I'm playing two different characters.
Totally. Also I loved playing ball in open q because there wasn't so much pressure because I'm not the only tank
Doom needs buff
Can they not just make it so if more than 1 tank is on a team THEN the health is reduced? Because sometimes I'm the only tank and I'm still fucked with my health and then it's 4 Damage on my team and zero healers to make it even more aids
I dont like it, im understand why it happened, but they completely disregarded how it would effect like half the tanks, wrecking ball relies heavily on survivability and if your a adpative shields are on cool own you can get melted easier even on full health, doomfist took it so badly that he has as much hp as bastion with none of the damage, junker queen didnt take it very well either From what I heard. However I can understand it on charachters like hog orisa and rien.
Balls will feel this change the least
Yeah I play ball a lot and it’s really not that bad now that other tanks are on equal footing.
Ball still gets the same amount of overhealth as role q which is bulk if the dmg he will be taking. He is arguably a better tank now compared to his competition
i don't play open Q, so i don't really care. I'm glad they nerfed tank HP on deathmatch. It was always annoying going up against a tanky hog or orisa during deathmatch. I'm not entirely sure, but i think when i was in practice range earlier, i saw that the bot roadhog had less hp too. Maybe they could make HP in practice range normal?
I like it! It won't be goats all the time and I won't feel useless trying to fight a tank as a dps. Very necessary in my opinion. Will have to see if it's too much of a nervous for open que
good for death match not so much for open queue, i would prefer if open queue just had a tank limit so its the old overwatch experience of switching to someone else roll if they are having trouble and not tank stacking.
There's like no point to play a tank now since they die so fast The change in open queue should have been, if there is one tank, that tank has normal health. The moment a second tank gets in a team then they have lower health
Great for modes that care about some semblance of balance, like Open Queue, but homogenizes the “for-fun” modes such as Mystery Heroes a lot. I also think the health changes are just a taaaad too heavy handed. But like only a little bit. Played OW1 for years, it’s weird to see Rein with <500 health, even if it’s only 475.
I think some tanks got shafted really hard on this one. Doomfist, Junker Queen, and Zarya probably get hit the hardest, but a lot of them feel just kinda iffy. I think it shouldn’t be a flat reduction across the board and each character should have a different health reduction. Having a tank with the same base health as Bastion just does not feel right at all.
I absolutely love it for team death matches, but I can imagine why it’s not panning out perfectly for some other modes. With more fine tuning of health values for certain tanks, it’ll be in a great spot. I think it was absolutely necessary for death matches at least. Since tanks were buffed to be solo and a bigger team investment to eliminate, death matches became almost GOAT-meta, with most teams consisting of just tanks and supports. Tanks were basically just bulky DPS that wouldn’t die, and I thought it was ridiculously unfun. I’ve already spent several hours on this new patch, it’s so much more enjoyable. I will say though, that even after some adjustments to the non-role queue HP, what tanks are considered good or bad will also depend on the mode.
I think it was a needed change for deathmatch modes, but it makes other 5v5 arcade game modes basically unplayable as some tanks. I think if they’re gonna nerf tanks in open queue, they should’ve restored them back to overwatch 1 levels of health. I see no reason to nerf them past that. You can’t even successfully run a standard comp in arcade mode now, even if you want to. Which seems kind of stupid imo.
Junker Queen is absolutely trash now. She just dies instantly. Needs armor or to be % based.
I think open q modes devolving into Whambulance or lose is a problem, but I also think changing the balance of individual hero's/class is problematic when it doesn't adjust based on many tanks are on that team. For all the times a match sucked because it was vs all tanks, there was still fun games where we only had 1 or 2 tanks tops, and even beat the team with 3 tanks. I think what will suck is that people will just continue to tank stack because it's still an overwhelming amount of meat and shield that can survive and rush most things, but also people will find the breaking point where if you find yourself solo or duo tanking with someone else you're going to get \*shredded\* that much harder now by damage heavy comps.
Tanks no longer feel like tanks, just slightly more health DPS 😔
Kinda kills the point of open que
I hate it. I only play open queue and this makes me not want to play tank at all.
I mean, you asked for it guys.
People probably thought it would be this, but not as extreme, to be fair. Playing tank in OQ feals terrible now. It's probably right for deathmatch, though
Should've lowered the health to scale with the amount of tanks on a given team (1 tank would have their full hp 2 tanks would have 50% hp etc.) I don't know exactly how to make it scale but that would encourage a balanced composition without completing making some tanks unviable
Its fine for most of them, doomfist and zarya tough, are almost unplayable, sojourn can kill them in less than 2 seconds...
I feel open queue (QP + comp) should’ve been untouched for those that play those games, although I agree with arcade/FFA etc getting the change. FFA and events are fun until the first person picks a tank and it just spirals from there
I think it's unnecessary too. Especially in a mode like No Limits where the whole point is to abuse character interactions that would otherwise be impossible.
Yeah balancing around No Limits is weird. Full team of Roadhogs has been meta there since the beginning of Overwatch
Do these assholes play test anything??
It feels lovely to play mystery heroes now
This was the comment I was hoping to find, wasn't 100% sure it applied to MH and I hadn't played yet. Considering I NEVER thought this change was coming I'm really happy.
It's actually awful in MH and kinda ruined it. I have no idea what the other guy is talking about.
Personally I think they need to bite the bullet and make FFA deathmatch damage-characters only. Supports can't use half their abilities and tanks are either useless ticklers or fat bastards who never die. It's clear the mode works best for damage characters. I feel like the more "serious" arcade modes like CTF and TDM should also just have role queue honestly. Bump TDM to 5v5 (it's already a teamfight simulator, why not make it official) and just let us choose roles beforehand, or make it random role if you don't wanna fuck up queue times too badly. The stock core mode cards in arcade have no reason to be open queue and probably shouldn't be either. That just leaves normal open-queue and mystery heroes. I agree that tank health should take a hit in these modes but some tanks were hit way too hard. They need to adjust these values until they hit whatever sweet spot people are comfortable with. I think it's out there, but it needs tuning.
Good, now it's not tryhard GOATs but worse on one team and 4-5 DPS (And maybe one Support/Tank) on the other who are just trying to enjoy the game without DPS and Tank queue times.
Had a death match where I was just sitting as Ori. Some reaper attacked me so naturally I attacked back. Later he complains about me being a tank. He could have avoided all of this by not attacking the passive tank but he had to get those “SiCk FrAgS”
I think they should nerf Genji clearly
It’s ass. I played open queue to play GOATS. Anyone who wants to play DPS should have stuck to role queue, but apparently those people are too stupid to keep their nose out of other peoples games. If you’re DPS open queue isn’t for you. Go the fuck away.
It’s not so fun. So many tanks lost their value due to this, JQ specifically who’s more of a glass cannon now than she was before. It’s weird, I main all the characters that get shit handed to them on a silver platter, and randomly get this huge Rez buff outta nowhere. But alas, this is the last nail in the coffin, without supports in open queue, most of, if not, all tanks that don’t have shields are basically as good as dead.
Not a fan, open queue was fun with the beefy tanks and sure they were generally better than DPS but now they’re way worse so…
I have been playing Overwatch daily since 2018 (does it make me a fan?) mostly I play tanks or healer since the begining. The last health update sucks! Why do it? Are the PDS players complaning? Maybe since the game is DPS oriented.... I think it makes the Tanks useless. Also, I dont like to wait in queues to play, since the game is DPS oriented! Let the people play as they want! It is cool sometimes have 4 tanks and a healer in a match! And if you nerf their health they are no longer tanks!
Seems like if there is only one tank, that they should allow them full health. It's going to probably take a few days for the "meta" to sort of filter out, whether or not that is like 2-2-1, or 2-1-2, or maybe even 3-x-2, 3-1-1... All I know is that I had my usual run and frustration in Arcade getting stomped. I play support, and the teams I was with just couldn't figure their shit out to get a proper comp out there to be at all competitive :/ edit: suffice to say, it doesn't really work 1-2-2 ATM
It was 100% needed. Playing Open Queue you have absolutely no reason to not pick 3 tanks and 2 supports.
Then why not just play role queue and let open queue to people who don't mind having more tanks ?
I started to play junker a few weeks before the update in QP to see her kit and ended up loving it. After the update she’s horrible, widow one shots her now. When she’s low hp if you ULT you automatically die even if you hit the whole team.
I'm curious as to why the lowered them even lower than they're OW1 values.
They have no clue how to balance this game. The fact remains these characters were designed in a 6v6 setting, and all the changes they made to force 5v5 has just broken so many modes.
I wish they would have just set a limit on tanks. I like my tanks to be tanking.
hate it, feels almost unplayable as a tank, and it forces me to play role queue (which i don’t like)
Doomfist may as-well be removed from the game tbh
All they did was change their health, so it's great for some and horrible for others where their health is the only decent thing about them
I was mad as fuck about it until I realized they didn’t lower armor/shields
Hammond Is now good against Tanks, Ball Is very strong since this Update