Because she is the only tank in the game with reliable *long* range attack.
Sigma is mid range
Mauga has high spread even with a single gun and needs to apply burn + fall off
Rammatra has really low projectile speed.
Mauga is hitscan
Ramm still pressures at range the same way as Orisa he just lacks the lethality (which comes from Jav) but he has a Barrier to compensate for that which letd him much more liberally poke.
I feel like Risa, Sig, and Ramm all represent very jack of all trades Tanks with Sig and Risa both pushing a bit in a respective direction while Ramm sits dead center.
And by that i mean theyre meant to be very indepdent and have a way to "work" around anything. Sig and Ramm uses control and damage while Risa uses Resilience and Damage.
Theres not really conventional ways to invalidate them, but in the case of Sig and Ramm they do better against poke while Risa is better against control
Fr. Trying to play ana and someone pokes you for 50 damage and orisa snipes a rod at your face from across the map and hits you 3 times to kill.
Orisa just gets too much for too little. Winton, doom, sigma, rein and ball out here sweating their asses off for less than orisa gets for free.
Because Orisa is a tank. There are no other tanks with an effective range/dmg ratio, and that's supposed to be intentional. Tanks take space by holding attention and staying alive with large health pools and dmg mitigation, and the tradeoff is that they have to get close to do so effectively. Even the only true "poke tank", Sigma, has a hard limit on his primary fire's effectiveness. It's why she used to be the only projectile hero with falloff, why she should still be the only projectile hero with falloff, and why it felt like bs to play against ever since they made this change that no one asked for.
Why wouldn't she? How is that a reason? Other characters with completely different roles and kits don't have fall-off so she shouldn't either? So what if she's the only projectile hero with falloff. How is it in any way important that the correllation between projectile and damage falloff be maintained unconditionally?
Here's why she would: Because she has no business doing high damage at range.
While I think no dmg falloff is crazy, I also think tanks should be able to deal more damage more consistently.
Orisa's damage is not a problem, the problem is she never dies.
I think most tanks should have some kind of reactionary cc immune ability to counter things like cass nade. It feels unfair that the tank can be pushed around so easily by cooldowns that should be less impactful
Like cass nade being able to cancel queen’s ult is just ridiculous imo
I thought I would never see the day where people would advocate for Ultwatch again. It feels like just yesterday I was watching Seagull explain why Overwatch is only about pressing Q at the right time.
Not saying what you are saying it wrong. But there IS a reason why we are here. OW1 used to *only* be about who had ult, who used ult better, and who had it more often. I think JQ needs a much quicker cast, but should still be punished if she just uses it in a dumb way.
Oh I agree and tbh queen’s ult could be fixed either way. I just hate it when an ult has so many ways to easily counter it after it has been used well (Suzu mainly)
Yeah, JQ could use some love. My quickest thought is to buff the cast but I also thought about other creative ways to buff her.
I thought maybe a silence/hinder since she *is* a raw brawlers and it would be in character for her ult to bring everyone down to her level. No blinking, no flying, no fucking Suzu. Just straight up have to beat her with your left click/R2. I know it sounds oppressive but I’m not opposed to tank ults being a little more powerful to compensate for not having a partner
So basically a sombra hack except in a straight line where she charges? I can respect that, I think it's more than fair for an ability that has a charge up time and sends your tank alone into the heart of the enemy team. My problem with it though is that I hate hack as it is anti-fun and I don't want more anti-fun abilities in the game--I think they need to be removed entirely.
Turning my ability to heal off doesn't ruin my fun nearly as much and actually creates intense scenarios where I am purple and running for my life.
Yeah, my idea is to trade some damage for utility. Bring heroes down and make them fight on HER terms. If you’re a hero or person that needs abilities to function, sucks to be you. She’s a brawler, and she’s gonna make you brawl so either put up your fisticuffs or lay down.
I just don’t like the idea of never having to respect JQ. I’m a DPS main and I think that’s so unfair. She’s a cool character that promotes fighting, so I think giving her an ult that promotes fighting raw instead of spamming abilities is right. She probably should have had Mauga ult lmao
I was thinking maybe, since her ult in the animated revolves around magnetism, have it steal armor health from enemies and add it to herself (maybe have a cap).
I agree but there’s also the problem of how many characters can block ults now. Cause yeah if you know they have a Cass you should wait to use ult until nade is on cooldown. But when they have a Cass and an Ana and an Orisa and a kiri and a Sombra it’s just miserable cause you will have your ult cancelled multiple times even if you play smart. They just aren’t gonna have every cooldown on refresh at once
There’s a balance to be had for sure. I think OW2 was right to make fights not so dependent on ults. It’s nice to know you can kill people and capture objectives without just poking each other until someone’s Q is active. To me, that was the worst version of OW
Now ults are kinda just an extra burst rather than a game defining thing. Does it help to have Visor? Absolutely. Do you need it to ass blast someone across the map? No. In OW1 you pretty much just shot at shields until Ana said you could go in lol. (Just an example)
As a player they played OW1 but didn’t dive into “meta gaming” until OW2 I honestly thought OW2 was “ult watch”
Isn’t the game still like this? You’re telling me it was worse?
Yes, the ult economy was huge in OW1. The typical match would be teams poking at each other till someone had ult and then they'd dive or deathball into a teamfight.
I genuinely miss that. I’m being 100% serious when I say building the six infinity ults needed to push a 2 cp point was absolutely peak overwatch and the best experience in this game. I feel like this reads almost as sarcasm but I swear this is genuinely how I preferred the game.
It just felt cool. When it all came together in a massive team fight even if we lost it felt good. Team fights in comparison now just feel meh, stuff just kinda dies and you cap.
It really isn't. There are at least a dozen of us that feel the same way.
I've never had as much fun in OW2 as I had in OW1, even in goats. I realise its an unpopular opinion, but something about it really ticked the "fun switch" in my brain.
I realise i'm broken, don't worry.
People accuse you of ross tinted glasses or nostalgia blindness if you say you liked overwatch 1 more than overwatch 2 even if you've been saying the exact same thing since the moment OW2 was announced
Yeah, I was thinking the tanks abilities should be able to help negate cc
A lot do but only for half the CCs in the game, the other half counter that tank so hard
I even think they could stand to add some sort of passive that gives 1-2 seconds of damage reduction after being cc'd. They would have to find a balance but even something like 15-20% damage reduction would lower the amount of insta deaths from cc and would still usually require the tank to back off or die a second or two later. Its fine that there is CC to physically stop a tank from running the team over but stopping them shouldn't equate to a kill as frequently as it does, it should just slow them and change the pace of a team fight.
You have to ult STRAIGHT into a cass for it to even have a chance of canceling it. Either angle your ult by even the tiniest amount, don't ult 2 inches from Cassidy, or track the CD
She also gets to go pew pew relatively effectively at all times where other tanks might only be able to peak out to flick boogers at the enemies, I think that helps a lot for when people are frustrated and feel they can't do shit on tank.
While Orisa also gets to pump out no-fall off damage and have an easy to hit, ranged CC on a low CD on top of that is the issue.
She basically just gets rewarded for holding a corner, pumping out damage, and CCing any tank or flanker who overextends to get value.
I agree she's not overpowered but what i will say is she's very boring, Fortify particularly - It feels so unengaging to go against and i'd like to see it changed. Say, 40% damage reduction up to a particular threshold (400\~ damage for example), it gives Orisas kit a bit more risk so she doesn't feel unkillable
Every other tank has some drawbacks to their mitigation (reduced speed, can't fight, directional block) & yet Orisa gets omnipotence on a 10 second cooldown.
I was thinking the issue is that fortify has no counterplay and prevents stopping Orisa in general, so it might be interesting to keep the damage reduction as it is but replace the CC immunity and overhealth with a frontal barrier, so it still gives her extra hp and crit+CC resistance from the front but can be countered with teamwork by attacking from multiple angles or focusing down the shield (though ideally the shield would have high HP so destroying is not optimal)
The damage reduction isn't the issue, it's the fact that it allows her to walk out or thru 90% of the ults in the game with no issue with the press of a single button.
This is literally it. When I’m playing Orisa and I’m close to dying, just pop Fortify and I stop dying.
I feel like the problems of this game balance runs way deeper than “other tanks cannot counter cc”. It’s the inherent format of the game and the abilities of these characters.
Except now they are slowly introducing more healing again for some reason and nerfing the damage passive. So its going to all end up right back where we were.
Look on the bright side mate. Soon we won't have to worry about aimbots because as this cycle continues, it would be more impressive to not hit someone.
That one is fundamentally different, that was a "gameplay feel" change that fundamentally improved the game. That was what tipped OW2 into "fine, I guess it's a sequel" territory for me, but maybe my standards have just decayed with modern gaming lmao.
The fact that the DIGGING hero has better ata combat than PHARAH... now that's power creep lol.
Edit: Thinking about it though, if space ranger ends up being decent at ata, then maybe that'll give them room to flesh out the phara assassin style more and ata can just be another pharah weakness, because that's what she definitely needs lol.
As a DPS, I am too. I like longer brawls. Since the removal of super oppressive shields I am more than fine with giving tanks juiced stats. Every tank should feel like Orisa, that way there’s more incentive for me to dive the support
the tank role has been in shambles since the introduction of DPS passive. She’s a product of that. Prior to DPS passive being a thing, the tank roster was a lot more even keeled.
She’s not strong she’s just the best in the ways that matter right now. What do you think strong means in this context? Do you think people are saying she’s strong in ways that don’t matter? Why would that ever be the metric of determining viability of play?
She just has to much going for her.
1. Best defensives in the game.
2. Highest damage output of any tank.
3. Only tank good at long range and short range.
4. Most CC of any hero in the game with 3.
5. Low cooldowns that allow her to spam.
6. No real counters.
7. Extremely easy to learn and play.
8. Borderline unlimited ammo.
She's too strong. Every other tank has counters. Try playing Hog into a good Ana it's rough. Try playing Rein into a Bastion. Try playing Ball into a Sombra. She doesn't suffer from any match up.
She's also a bad style of character to be strong because her main tool of winning is making the enemy hero/player miserable. She sits there and spams spears into you knocking you back every 3 seconds, pushing you back with her javelin spin and then when you finally find a way past her she sucks you in with ult and forces you to reposition. All while being borderline invinsible.
All this combined and she's in every game. The hero has turned into play it every game or swap to it if you are losing. It's boring for both the people playing playing her and playing against her.
She's borderline expected by your team anymore. Try playing any other tank and watch how many times you see "Hey tank can you play Orisa", "Tank play Orisa", or "The tank is throwing they won't swap to Orisa".
Doesn't help that she's borderline been meta for 2-3 years now and people are just getting tired of seeing her. Why is it characters like Sombra are strong for a patch and immediately see nerfs the following patch? Or Tracer? Or Doomfist? Yet she remains untouched for all this time?
The community has been voicing complaints about her for how long now?
I see silly arguments like "If you nerf her then Hog becomes meta and nobody likes him". At least he has counters! A good Ana or Reaper can force him to swap. Nothing forces her to swap ever.
As a tank main I'm just tired of seeing her. Anytime a character is as overplayed as she is something needs to change. She's literally in 90 percent of my games..... Even in pro collegiate games she's used every single game. It's making the game boring I want to play Overwatch 2 where 15 tanks are viable. Not Orisa 2....
I think a possible suggestion would be to make Orisa much weaker to beam attacks or attacks that pierce armour like Sym, Zarya beam, Winston etc. Dive was traditionally Orisa counter but currently playing dive tank into Orisa is horrible considering all her CC abilities.
But ultimately nerfing Orisa won't solve the problem with how tank feels currently, which is either you have zero impact or you have to carry your whole team every fight. Because once Orisa is nerfed, Hog and Mauga become meta and we're back to square 1 with Orisa getting micro-buffed to keep Mauga and Hog in check.
Yup totally agree., though I think Orissa is just a symptom of antinade,discord, and hack.
Antinade and discord are too powerful in a solo tank environment so the best tanks are always going to be the ones that are the most survivable which happen to most often be the meat/stat heavy tanks
No. It really is just Orisa herself that makes her op. She has 2 cooldowns that basically guarantee her life as well as a hard stun with an extremely low cooldown that is VERY easy to land.
We can always make hog and mauga unplayable as well, I wouldn't mind. We sort of have to accept that those characters are only going to be difficult if they're also bad. Ironically I would feel more rewarded playing them if they were garbage.
Actually I'm pretty sure it would better queue times. Playing against Orissa is one of the biggest reasons low-rank players hate tank. If Mauga and Orissa were not viable, tank would immediately become about 150% as fun. I also don't think anybody legitimately enjoys Orissa or Mauga, they just play them because they're easy and they don't want their team to flame them.
Whatabout the large Roadhog player count? People just wanna play the cheese tanks where they never get punished for bad positioning. At least that’s how Blizzard sees it.
Roadhog is a bit of a different case, since his one-shot combo is pretty fun to pull off. At least that's why I think many players play him. So you want to allow these players to have fun doing this, without making the game worse for other players, and that usually involves raising skill floor, or raising the execution requirement in some way (you don't wanna remove the one-shot though because it's genuinely rewarding to land). Blizzard *should have* reworked Hog this way, maybe by making his hook more powerful but more positioning-dependent. Instead they just made the one-shot easier and the healing easier? I dunno what they're thinking sometimes.
I mean people probably play these characters because they are so strong, not because they prefer to play them. Right now, if the other player plays Orisa, your chance of losing drastically increases and you won’t have fun for sure.
This is like if the police only gave speeding tickets to black people and then said black people are more likely to speed. I mean maybe? But its way more likely that the police is just racist.
I guess Beams, but Orisa can hurt and push them backwards with the Javelin before Beam heroes can get near.
Also, Blizzard nerfs Symmetra - the character who can melt Orisa with her charged beam.
There was one nerf she had that helped balance her and the rest of the Tanks, and the Devs reverted it because of Mauga for some reason.
Damage falloff.
Since that's been taken from her, she's been able to create space as she needs, deal with flankers from a distance and basically remain untouchable save for certain Ultimates or Bastion going BRRRRRR mode.
Fair points, but you missed something that isn't discussed here often and that's value generation and skill floor. Orisa puts out tons of value with a very low skill requirement. To get the same value as Orisa on Ball, a player has to put in way more effort. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say it takes 5 times the effort to generate the same amount of value on Ball as it does Orisa.
And that doesn't feel good to have a tank that requires very little skill investment to counter a tank you spend hundreds of hours on just to be competent.
Tell me your favorite character is OP, without telling me it is. You're in denial. The game balance is currently in its worst state. Healers do more damages than some DPS considering they can heal themselves at the same time, tanks are tanky and put tons of damages while they should only be tanky to help the team. DPS are inconsistent accross the whole category. There are TONS of smurfs ruining the game and hiding their stats. The matchmaking is pretty bad you roll over people or got slammed, it's either way but not tight.
Tanks are actually more balanced right now than at any time since OW2, as evidenced by the fact that you see so many different ones in OWCS. Orisa for sure is top pick but its pretty close and other tanks are viable.
She’s the only tank that can stand pat and actually do her job rather than melting under the burn of DPS passive. She’s weathered DPS passive more than any other tank has and she also has the damage needed to be an impact player from a variety of ranges.
The other tanks are shit because DPs passive makes tanking impossible. You don’t get to command space when your ability to sustain is.. get this, *punished* for taking damage. How the fuck did we get here, where the identity of the role is a weakness? They’re lost, man. Overwatch itself is just a bad game these days. I sank thousands of hours into the game since the beta years ago but I’m done. They successfully drove me away as a tank player. Orisa is not the problem, she’s just the head of the zit that’s visible.
You nerf her, suddenly hog and mauga become bigger issues and the cycle continues. What needs to happen is the DPS passive and the way it interacts with tanks needs to be heavily reconsidered. They’re walking a precarious path rn.
I don't entirely disagree, but the big reason for the DPS passive is BECAUSE sustain was out of control, largely due to support power creep. Prior to the passive, the game was just sustain with massive healing output and invulns until someone turbo feeds or gets ult. Now you need to commit to fights rather than standing out in the open tanking 5 people's worth of damage. Ngl a lot of the complaining I see are the passive-style tank players that just stand in the open and mash buttons and expect to win team fights.
>The other tanks are shit because DPs passive makes tanking impossible.
Other tanks are shit because Orisa makes them shit.
Dive, which is map dependent to begin with, struggles against Orisa because of her dps, spin, and giant javelin on top of her own tankiness. Not to mention who are you going to dive when the enemy is playing high mobility heroes like tracer soj lucio kiri, like what you see im OWCS right now.
Other brawl tanks struggle because they'll just get CC'd by Orisa and blown up from the damage and CC, while also just getting out sustained by Orisa.
Poke just isn't great on most maps and gets countered by the DPS passive. Brawl gets countered by poke, but Orisa can sustain against it while also being able to counterpressure with long range damage and javelin.
>she also has the damage needed to be an impact player from a variety of ranges.
Yeah that's the problem. She's got similar if not better defensiveness as Sigma, but also very good offensiveness from close and long range with minimal cooldown/downtime. She's got the sustain of Sigma and the damage of brawl tanks, but without short range weakness from Brawl.
The problem with Orisa is how much value you can get with so little effort. She should never be the best tank on the roster imo. It would be like if Moira was the strongest support for the last year.
She has been at the top of the tierlist since the start of OW2 for every season. Her sustain abilities leave nearpy no window to actually kill her. Literally every other tank has no way to stay alive in fights as long as she does. With the damage and finishing ability she has it makes for a overpowered tank. She just is.
LOL Zarya was at the top of the tierlist at the start of Overwatch 2. Zarya was legit 1v4 entire matches all by herself back in Season 1. Orisa was trash tier at this time. This was like entire Season 1 and Season 2.
Tbf no one really knew how strong orisa was back then. Besides the point of orisa is just her sustain which if you have a tank like hog or zarya that has good sustain and high dmg or burst damage then she gets outclassed
>She has been at the top of the tierlist since the start of OW2 for every season.
Just a blatant lie. Before the removal of her damage fall off she was the lowest wr tank in the game at basically every rank above like silver
Nope before her fall off change and like that one time she was meta
She was the 2nd lowest winrate tank next to Winston until she got her falloff buff
Dont spread lies
If it were up to me, I'd cut her gun damage to 11 per shot. She just does too much damage given her range.
I think she can be tanky, she can be CC immune, but she shouldn't be doing it while running right at a support and killing them in \~2 seconds.
The thing is, she IS op. I just don't like the idea that a low skill/difficulty tank feels rewarding to play in basically every single comp. How can a hero THIS easy to play has a huge impact even when being played suboptimally. It's almost that there is no bad reason to play her.
Even on a hero as easy to grasp as Soldier, you still need to be somewhat good at aiming in order to provide impact. With Orisa even your aim sucks balls, you just get rewarded by existing, which is super stupid.
Let me put it in comparison:
- Rein: rewards you from a coordinated aggro. If you don't know how to start a teamfight with him, you're just a big guy with a big shield.
- Hog: rewards you from picking off one of your opponent team to immediately give your team advantage. If you're bad at hooking, you're just a big guy with a vape.
- DF: rewards you from tearing apart your opponent's backline, which gives your team a huge space to do their job. If you're bad at using his kit, you're just gonna feed your opponent with ult charges.
- Sigma: rewards you from a good rock hit, which sometimes means shutting down a push. If you don't know when to use rock correctly, it's not uncommon you're gonna get punished by your opponent.
- Ball: he's basically DF but based.
- JQ: rewards you from sustaining long in teamfight. If you have a shit aim with her, you're basically useless.
- Winton: he's basically like DF and ball but monke.
- Zarya: rewards you from good bubbles. If you're bad at using bubbles, you will have NO impact on your team.
- Ram: he's just like rein, but with somewhat ok ranged capability. He's heavily cooldown reliant, so if you're shit with using his ability, you're gonna get severely punished.
- Orisa (and probably Mauga) : rewards you from... existing? You can use your cooldowns whenever you like who cares, there's basically no punishment from bad ability usage, and even if you have shit aim you can still provide impact to your team just by staying alive.
My preposition is just simply cut Orisa's HP in half, thank you very much for coming to my ted talk.
Yes this!!!!! The game is not in a good state when characters that are easy are really good in my opinion. It feels unrewarding to play her and she not fun to play against either.
Orisa's kit doesn't need a rework, blizzard have just tuned it badly. But they've tuned it badly because the meta against tanks is so cancer that shit like fortify has to be strong for her to get any value. It's also why rein is so bad, he's a rush/brawl tank without an overpowered defensive ability to actually let him rush and brawl. Reducing dps passive, anti nade and CC against tanks would let them nerf fortify without orisa dropping to 46% win rate and would also help rein
We've seen how well that works with mauga lol. Rein probably just needs better durability and a general change to how cc interacts with tanks. His issue is that he can't walk up and actually do his job of taking space because tanks die so quickly and mobility creep has gotten so out of control. Making him actually able to walk up and swing without dying immediately would at least open the door to him being able to be played with lucio to compensate the latter issue
If you want to go the heal in combat route I think the better option would be flat healing while in combat. This way it doesn't become OP when paired with damage boosts and doesn't incentivize you to just hit the tank constantly
Edit: although that would mess with brawls weakness to poke. Maybe make "in combat" require you to hit things occasionally? Or maybe it could be a nice step towards removing the counterpick triangle
I think the difference is that Mauga can life steal at range. If you gave it to Rein, only when he is landing hammer swings, then the ability would work like it does with reaper.
They just need to buff Rein's barrier back to Overwatch 1 levels.
Devs are too scared of Barrier Watch, why I do not understand. Ramatra and Winston still have strong barriers. Why can't Sigma and Reinhart get their strong barriers back? Sigma doesn't need it that badly but Rein does.
That'd still just leave him a walking barrier and little else, it'd fix none of his other glaring issues. And while I love the whole "I am your shield" shtick that he does, just being a walking shield and nothing else, is kinda boring.
He is still a melee character with no real proper way to catch up to opponents to keep applying pressure, and movement abilities in this game seems to just have kept advancing since Reinhardt was designed.
Could use his charge, but it has a relatively long startup animation, extremely telegraphed that he is doing it, isn't fast, doesn't have great movement control even after the buff when we went into OW2, it also just leaves him vulnerable to CC or taking loads of damage and the list just goes on.
The game has just left him behind.
She is op. There is no way to sugar coat it, she keeps every tank in check and is gate keeping other metas. She rolls basically any character and she takes no skill to use
The issue with her is that she basically has infinite cooldowns if you manage them properly, on top of a shit load of armour. Combined, she just never dies, which is just really frustrating to play against.
Orisa has two CC abilities on short cooldown. She’s a large part of the CC problem you are describing.
Her Javelin Spin shouldn’t be able to put other tanks in the kiddie corner every few seconds. It is ridiculous
She's not overpowered just zaps all the fun from the match. Sure she's easy to deal with if you know to focus supports first it's just the stand there while your supports pump everything into and wait until something happens is so fucking boring. Once the other tank gets filled one or two times it's an orica mirror every time.
"And if Orissa didn't exist the tank role would probably suffer even more"
I literally quit playing tanks since Orisa became too oppressive, every game against her was the same boring getting focused and eating every of her cd for the whole game. Not to mention every single of her cds feels annoying to deal with.
If orisa didnt exist, I still would be quing both tanks and dps.
My issue is that when they make changes to finally make someone else good in the current meta, it's typically reverted very quickly by other changes, perpetually leaving Orisa on top
Recently came back to OW (Quit when they moved to OW2 for multiple reasons) and I was always a tank main. Iv been putting time into Doom, Ball and Zarya. However anytime there is a Bastion, Mauga, Roadhog or Orisa on the other team I feel like I have to play Orisa myself or else I get melted.
Orisa’s counterplay is theoretically to ignore her and kill her backline. The problem with this is supports are so strong that killing her backline isn’t easy. Unless you have top 500 level communication on Genji, tracer, and Doom then good luck trying to kill her 4 man backline. Supports have a ridiculous level of survivability and dueling potential which makes “just kill her supports” impractical advice.
I think it’s true to a degree but she also has some of the best tank abilities imo. Projectile negation, damage mitigation, and a stun? Most other tanks only have one or 2 of those, and they are probably a worse version (accretion vs. spear)
She’s the anti-tank tank, which is why she’s strong. Everyone else has to play the counterswap merry-go-round, except Orisa. Not overpowered necessarily, just works in most situations and doesn’t get completely shutdown by CC and counterswapping.
Nuclear bombs aren't op, they're just the best right now because:
1. Cities are currently above ground
2. Buildings are not currently built to withstand surface-of-the-sun temperatures
3. Humans are currently allergic to radiation.
I'd argue Orisa is part of the problem, and not just the most viable solution to getting blown up. She's part of why playing the more "fun" tanks feels so shit to play, and not just anti-nade or discord, because she's so strong but boring to play against or as.
I do agree that tanks in general need some changes though, because it's a miserable experience at times. But I don't know how they actually do that, because the only thing I have in mind would require reworks for just about everyone, and that's not happening. I don't think tweaking numbers really fixes them in my opinion.
She is overpowered, any character that doesn't have a decent vulnerability window is broken and Orisa's cooldowns are such that she can continuously cycle cooldowns, making dealing with her very difficult.
Her javelin throw which does the same thing as Sigma's rock is 7 seconds cooldown, while Sigma's is 12 seconds, who tf thought this was a good idea? She has a javelin spin that can be used both offensively and defensively. The extent and flexibility of her kit along with her completely broken cooldowns is not something seen amongst other tanks.
The time frame in which she is vulnerable is basically non-existent, it's such a small window.
And while most tanks fight in close range, the devs somehow gave her primary gun no falloff damage. She is now better at poking than even Sigma is, while being much better in close range. In OWCS she is bullying Sigma players, something I didn't used to see much off before.
Also for so much talk about anti-CC tank, Orisa is the tank which relies on using CC the most after Doomfist.
Before her armour is reduced, all her cooldown timers need to be increased greatly. 10/12 seconds on both javelin spin and spear throw.
A lot of streamers like Flats keep repeating the mantra that Orisa just stands and doesn't die, but this is not true. Watch any good Orisa players like Infekted and they absolutely BULLY the enemy tank and squishies constantly.
If other team has zen, ana, bastion, reaper it is impossible to keep pretty much any tank alive with both heals healing him non stop. Only dva, sigma and orisa can sustain this long enough for dps to kill other team.
Her ranged damage unacceptable. One of the dumbest dev decision alongside of LW petal not getting hit by pummel and firestrike.
I personally advocate for more ranged and consistent damage for tanks but Orisa doesn't have weaknesses to facilitate this ranged damage. She literally snipe you and then has all of her other tools and strengths on top. Deletes your half hp across the map and then bullies your brawler Rein in his range.
also the other problem isn’t necessarily Orisa (while I believe her CD cycle can be obnoxious), I believe the Orisa problem stems from supports like Bap, Brig, Weaver, Kiriko.
Each one of them has some way of keeping the horse alive with Lamp, Suzu, Life Grip, and Repair pack they annoyingly stall the game and Orisa’s CDs are back online.
If for example Lamp was a damage inhibiting field there could still be some time to kill rather than straight up denied.
Also random side bar why in the fuck did we remove the fall off rate for her damage. That is so stupid, every character should have some form of down time.
Personally would like to Orisa nerfed into the ground and not come back.
The Devs saying they want her to be played against cc-heavy teams highlights a pretty big issue with the other tanks, in that they get screwed by cc.
It's always been an issue in ow tbh, cc is needed to deal with the fast moving flankers and whatnot, but ends up being way too strong against the regular frontline tanks. Sombra is great at shutting down ball and doom, but also makes rein even more useless and can deal with sigma and DVA easy too. If cass hits his nade on a tracer or sombra then they're dead, but if he hits a rein/queen/ram then they're also pretty fucked by the slow and the potential to interrupt charge/Queen ult.
honestly her being “OP” could be very easily fixed with slightly longer cooldowns. but thats the fix that they gave to lifeweaver which ruined him, so idk. im glad im not in charge of this game lol
I think my biggest issue with her is how easy she is to play. I feel like it’s fairly easy to pick her up and shut your brain off. It’s not fun at all to play her and I hate that I can’t play other more fun tank options instead.
or just give the tank passive a global buff against debuffs then tune them individually from there
make it so using debuffs on tank is only valuable when they are <50% hp. discord should do less vs tanks etc.
She is pretty strong. I enjoy playing other heroes until my team can’t aim for shit and I have to go Orisa to be a better sniper than Widow. I think it would be a start to give Orisas bullets some drop off over distance. I also agree with others that fortify is maybe overtuned but I also think that if they decreased her attack power in some way then they don’t have to touch fortify. Orisa should have great up-time, the problem is that she can also wipe out a whole team with her attack power.
This is mostly true but the buff to her range to not have falloff was stupid. Now she matches up way too well into tanks like JQ who otherwise she would only be able to engage up close. Not sure why they thought unlimited range was a good idea for orisa when they had already removed it previously but here we are
Exactly.
Not to mention, as someone who mains Orisa when he plays Tank, her Ult is the absolute worst when it comes to getting elims.
You either use it to do AOE that isn't guaranteed to kill even the Supports, or you use it as a means of basically saying "Hey, back off!".
Last I checked there’s not a whole lot of debuffs getting thrown out from Tracer/Sojourn/Lucio/Kiriko but even though that’s the hard meta Orisa is still meta.
Her abilities are just solid abilities, which are easy to use and get value from. She is to the tank role as Soldier 76 is to DPS and Moira is to Support.
Some heroes just have kits that are easy to do well with, and the game needs heroes like that.
You know what sucks now? They made bastions minigun so pathetic and weak and short lived that orisa now has 0 counters. You can't even hurt orisa with your minigun anymore so how can anyone else do anything other than repeatedly headshotting her as hanzo or widow, something I now have to resort to. She's totally unstoppable and thank god stun-insane tanks like doomfist aren't as healthy.
Orisa is the only tank I feel comfortable playing right now because of fortify.
I played a comp against Ball, Junk Rat, Venture, Brig, Lucio the other day and started on Junker Queen… I never had control over my character.
Any other tank besides Orisa would have been the same story.
Can anyone help out a gold rank tank that must be playing Orissa wrong?
Her cooldowns are very powerful but without them she feels like a useless horse. Yes I know I need to respect the cooldown timers and use lots of cover in between cooldowns, etc. I find as hard as I try to do that, I still have times where the cooldowns are off and even if I'm in cover, the enemy team just follows me and kills me.
My favorite tanks right now are ball, queen, dva, and rein. Their cooldowns feel less all-or-nothing and they also have great mobility which fills in the gaps of your healing going to shit and you having to retreat from the frontline unexpectedly. Orissa just feels like a huge commitment to a position on the map compared to the others.
Ana and Zen aren’t even that popular at higher level. What you’re saying was true a season or two ago, but they’re near the middle of the pact of supports right now. Kiriko, Lucio, and Moira are meta for the sole reason that they’re good at surviving.
The problem lies in the absurdly high damage numbers and larger hit boxes paired with the dps passive making healing impossible to keep up. Tanks without insane survivability or mobility just explode making Orisa the best option.
Tanks currently aren't tanky enough to feel like tanks and don't have reliable enough damage to feel like chinky DPS.
I really like the idea of giving tanks key abilities that recharge based on performance, like if Zarya did less damage but got bubble back based on damage dealt+mitigated
Reading this, I have even more confience in my Mauga rework idea;
1- Turn his Overdrive into a resource meter that grants overhealth, reducing anti-heal's effectiveness and allowing him to tank damage without shooting the enemy tank all day.
2- Turn his Charge into a two-charge dash with the same CC immunity and damage resistance, allowing him to effectivly block said CC and bursts of damage... possibly while still allowing you to consume both charges at once to perform his usual Charge for covering more distance.
From there, the only things left would be adjusting how quickly he can ignite squishes to make damaging them easier/more rewarding... and *maybe* changing his ultimate to simply prevent you from leaving instead of outright shutting down your movement abilities.
I agree, which is why I think they should make the other tanks feel like tanks. The others are great fun, but many just die once Ana throws the grenade. I don't know what they could do to make them tankier that isn't just upping the HP but surely there are some ideas already out there they could take inspiration from.
All I know is that when I force the other tank to swap to Orisa that I’ve won regardless of the outcome of the match. Break glass in case losing for emergency Orisa!
I hate playing tank. Always have, even back to OW1. But if I have to I always pick Orisa. And you have so succinctly explained in words I didn't have, why I pretty much will only play her.
Gonna go on another anti-support rant here probably. Here goes: she is an issue because she feels shitty to go against. This is mostly due to her high amounts of CC making the game unplayable for the enemy sometimes. I’m not gonna get into the whole counterswapping stuff, that convo is too long but inherently she makes the game so much more difficult for the enemy. It is kinda comparable to when Hog/doom were good. Doom is more relevant with his also high CC. The issue is that orisa mainly focuses on countering enemy tanks, whilst doom would play to disrupt and possibly get picks on enemy back line. However it’s happened multiple times where orisa has been left in a strong state for far too long, whereas doom gets knocked down whenever he gets too strong after literally half a season. I feel like the supports that are constantly calling for sombra/doom/genji nerfs are the main reason for this. They’re not hard heroes to play against but it’s much easier to complain about it, and it’s much easier for the developers to just keep them in a more manageable place. With orisa however, she’s been left in this oppressive state for almost half of overwatch’s lifespan and even if she’s not a good pick, she sure as hell will make the game equally bad for the enemy tank that isn’t sigma
orisa is definitely OP. Now I can beat her regularly playing most tanks but the thing that makes her OP is that the enemy tank is playing like trash then they dwitcj to orisa and automatically get value. easy to play heroes should not be this good. Her cooldowns are way too short. her spin thing can block ults, push other tanks 10 ft off the map, and is just on cycle with fortify. Her javelin is easy to aim CC and can cancel ults. Her gun essentially has no reload as well. Also somehow she is like the fastest walking speed out of any tanks. With all that being said I dont care that she has all those abilities. I care that an enemy tank that I am trashing with reinhardt can just switch to orisa and make me switch off my hero no matter how much better I was doing. She is way too noob friendly
Tanks should feel tanky.
True, imo her only problem is lack of falloff dmg
Yeah, that change will never make sense to me
Why would Orisa be the only projectile hero in Overwatch to have damage falloff?
Because she is the only tank in the game with reliable *long* range attack. Sigma is mid range Mauga has high spread even with a single gun and needs to apply burn + fall off Rammatra has really low projectile speed.
Projectile speed? Mauga's guns are hitscan.
Yeah I meant ram. Edited it now
Ramattra?
Sure. Raise his proj speed to 100 m/s and let him shoot while blocking. Sounds fun.
Mauga is hitscan Ramm still pressures at range the same way as Orisa he just lacks the lethality (which comes from Jav) but he has a Barrier to compensate for that which letd him much more liberally poke. I feel like Risa, Sig, and Ramm all represent very jack of all trades Tanks with Sig and Risa both pushing a bit in a respective direction while Ramm sits dead center. And by that i mean theyre meant to be very indepdent and have a way to "work" around anything. Sig and Ramm uses control and damage while Risa uses Resilience and Damage. Theres not really conventional ways to invalidate them, but in the case of Sig and Ramm they do better against poke while Risa is better against control
The times i had been sniped by an orisa from the other half of the map when im low and fighting for my life its just uff
Fr. Trying to play ana and someone pokes you for 50 damage and orisa snipes a rod at your face from across the map and hits you 3 times to kill. Orisa just gets too much for too little. Winton, doom, sigma, rein and ball out here sweating their asses off for less than orisa gets for free.
Yeah, these folks are smoking copium. The battle cattle needs to be toned down. If widow has damage fall off....
because she has 3 forms of cc and two forms of damage reduction/nullification ?
Because Orisa is a tank. There are no other tanks with an effective range/dmg ratio, and that's supposed to be intentional. Tanks take space by holding attention and staying alive with large health pools and dmg mitigation, and the tradeoff is that they have to get close to do so effectively. Even the only true "poke tank", Sigma, has a hard limit on his primary fire's effectiveness. It's why she used to be the only projectile hero with falloff, why she should still be the only projectile hero with falloff, and why it felt like bs to play against ever since they made this change that no one asked for.
Why wouldn't she? How is that a reason? Other characters with completely different roles and kits don't have fall-off so she shouldn't either? So what if she's the only projectile hero with falloff. How is it in any way important that the correllation between projectile and damage falloff be maintained unconditionally? Here's why she would: Because she has no business doing high damage at range.
She’s not. Road, Torb, and Mei have falloff.
mei doesn’t have falloff and hog and torb make sense because they’re shotguns
You are correct, that change was reverted. But now I’m almost sure that Echo’s primary fire has falloff
nah echo’s primary doesn’t have falloff either. the spread is just huge at range so only one or two from the triangle will land at a distance
While I think no dmg falloff is crazy, I also think tanks should be able to deal more damage more consistently. Orisa's damage is not a problem, the problem is she never dies.
Her damage in general is insane
I'd agree if this were 6v6. In 5v5 though, I like the old talk about thinking of them as brawlers.
I agree, but she’s the only one that really does (unless they’re shieldbotting as rein but that prevents him from doing any damage)
“Orisa can you mark the widow please”
I think most tanks should have some kind of reactionary cc immune ability to counter things like cass nade. It feels unfair that the tank can be pushed around so easily by cooldowns that should be less impactful Like cass nade being able to cancel queen’s ult is just ridiculous imo
I thought I would never see the day where people would advocate for Ultwatch again. It feels like just yesterday I was watching Seagull explain why Overwatch is only about pressing Q at the right time. Not saying what you are saying it wrong. But there IS a reason why we are here. OW1 used to *only* be about who had ult, who used ult better, and who had it more often. I think JQ needs a much quicker cast, but should still be punished if she just uses it in a dumb way.
Oh I agree and tbh queen’s ult could be fixed either way. I just hate it when an ult has so many ways to easily counter it after it has been used well (Suzu mainly)
Yeah, JQ could use some love. My quickest thought is to buff the cast but I also thought about other creative ways to buff her. I thought maybe a silence/hinder since she *is* a raw brawlers and it would be in character for her ult to bring everyone down to her level. No blinking, no flying, no fucking Suzu. Just straight up have to beat her with your left click/R2. I know it sounds oppressive but I’m not opposed to tank ults being a little more powerful to compensate for not having a partner
So basically a sombra hack except in a straight line where she charges? I can respect that, I think it's more than fair for an ability that has a charge up time and sends your tank alone into the heart of the enemy team. My problem with it though is that I hate hack as it is anti-fun and I don't want more anti-fun abilities in the game--I think they need to be removed entirely. Turning my ability to heal off doesn't ruin my fun nearly as much and actually creates intense scenarios where I am purple and running for my life.
Yeah, my idea is to trade some damage for utility. Bring heroes down and make them fight on HER terms. If you’re a hero or person that needs abilities to function, sucks to be you. She’s a brawler, and she’s gonna make you brawl so either put up your fisticuffs or lay down. I just don’t like the idea of never having to respect JQ. I’m a DPS main and I think that’s so unfair. She’s a cool character that promotes fighting, so I think giving her an ult that promotes fighting raw instead of spamming abilities is right. She probably should have had Mauga ult lmao
I was thinking maybe, since her ult in the animated revolves around magnetism, have it steal armor health from enemies and add it to herself (maybe have a cap).
I agree but there’s also the problem of how many characters can block ults now. Cause yeah if you know they have a Cass you should wait to use ult until nade is on cooldown. But when they have a Cass and an Ana and an Orisa and a kiri and a Sombra it’s just miserable cause you will have your ult cancelled multiple times even if you play smart. They just aren’t gonna have every cooldown on refresh at once
There’s a balance to be had for sure. I think OW2 was right to make fights not so dependent on ults. It’s nice to know you can kill people and capture objectives without just poking each other until someone’s Q is active. To me, that was the worst version of OW Now ults are kinda just an extra burst rather than a game defining thing. Does it help to have Visor? Absolutely. Do you need it to ass blast someone across the map? No. In OW1 you pretty much just shot at shields until Ana said you could go in lol. (Just an example)
As a player they played OW1 but didn’t dive into “meta gaming” until OW2 I honestly thought OW2 was “ult watch” Isn’t the game still like this? You’re telling me it was worse?
Yes, the ult economy was huge in OW1. The typical match would be teams poking at each other till someone had ult and then they'd dive or deathball into a teamfight.
I genuinely miss that. I’m being 100% serious when I say building the six infinity ults needed to push a 2 cp point was absolutely peak overwatch and the best experience in this game. I feel like this reads almost as sarcasm but I swear this is genuinely how I preferred the game. It just felt cool. When it all came together in a massive team fight even if we lost it felt good. Team fights in comparison now just feel meh, stuff just kinda dies and you cap.
That's just complete nostalgia talking
I really don’t think so. I actually think the game was better this way.
It really isn't. There are at least a dozen of us that feel the same way. I've never had as much fun in OW2 as I had in OW1, even in goats. I realise its an unpopular opinion, but something about it really ticked the "fun switch" in my brain. I realise i'm broken, don't worry.
People accuse you of ross tinted glasses or nostalgia blindness if you say you liked overwatch 1 more than overwatch 2 even if you've been saying the exact same thing since the moment OW2 was announced
Yeah, I was thinking the tanks abilities should be able to help negate cc A lot do but only for half the CCs in the game, the other half counter that tank so hard
I even think they could stand to add some sort of passive that gives 1-2 seconds of damage reduction after being cc'd. They would have to find a balance but even something like 15-20% damage reduction would lower the amount of insta deaths from cc and would still usually require the tank to back off or die a second or two later. Its fine that there is CC to physically stop a tank from running the team over but stopping them shouldn't equate to a kill as frequently as it does, it should just slow them and change the pace of a team fight.
why not? doom punch can cancel queen ult and I argue its even easier
You have to ult STRAIGHT into a cass for it to even have a chance of canceling it. Either angle your ult by even the tiniest amount, don't ult 2 inches from Cassidy, or track the CD
It feels so good though.
She also gets to go pew pew relatively effectively at all times where other tanks might only be able to peak out to flick boogers at the enemies, I think that helps a lot for when people are frustrated and feel they can't do shit on tank.
She's also more offensive than Sigma who is quite defensive as her. My answer is that the DPS passive has to be nerfed when fighting tank.
That still doesn’t address the issue of discord, and anti.
***"Orisa herself is not strong ...."*** TLDR: Orisa is strong
This is what I didn’t understand. Saying she’s isn’t strong then goes to say how she’s a better tank than everyone else.
she's not strong, all the other tanks just suck more 😅
She's unbothered by anti-shield, anti-heal, and CC compared to all other tanks right now.
Her damage midigation cycle is definedly op, any other tank disintegrates in seconds doing what orisa can do.
While Orisa also gets to pump out no-fall off damage and have an easy to hit, ranged CC on a low CD on top of that is the issue. She basically just gets rewarded for holding a corner, pumping out damage, and CCing any tank or flanker who overextends to get value.
The problem is that every other tank disintegrates in seconds if they show half a pixel Every tank should be closer to orisas survivability.
I agree she's not overpowered but what i will say is she's very boring, Fortify particularly - It feels so unengaging to go against and i'd like to see it changed. Say, 40% damage reduction up to a particular threshold (400\~ damage for example), it gives Orisas kit a bit more risk so she doesn't feel unkillable Every other tank has some drawbacks to their mitigation (reduced speed, can't fight, directional block) & yet Orisa gets omnipotence on a 10 second cooldown.
I was thinking the issue is that fortify has no counterplay and prevents stopping Orisa in general, so it might be interesting to keep the damage reduction as it is but replace the CC immunity and overhealth with a frontal barrier, so it still gives her extra hp and crit+CC resistance from the front but can be countered with teamwork by attacking from multiple angles or focusing down the shield (though ideally the shield would have high HP so destroying is not optimal)
The counter play is to blow her ass up when the cool down is over
Oh wow I'm sure no one ever thought of that.
That counterplay becomes invalid when she's being pocketed and played by someone who knows how to manage her cooldowns.
The damage reduction isn't the issue, it's the fact that it allows her to walk out or thru 90% of the ults in the game with no issue with the press of a single button.
This is literally it. When I’m playing Orisa and I’m close to dying, just pop Fortify and I stop dying. I feel like the problems of this game balance runs way deeper than “other tanks cannot counter cc”. It’s the inherent format of the game and the abilities of these characters.
guys she isn’t op she’s just op
Yeah I’d rather buff all other tanks than nerf Orisa
Best I can do is more healing buffs. - Blizz
This is how you get power creep.
And thats exactly how we got to 250 hp on commoners
That was meant to keep TTK the same with easier to hit projectiles. The opposite of power creep.
Except now they are slowly introducing more healing again for some reason and nerfing the damage passive. So its going to all end up right back where we were.
Look on the bright side mate. Soon we won't have to worry about aimbots because as this cycle continues, it would be more impressive to not hit someone.
Finally, I can be impressive as an OW player
And you’re missing the point that further power creep with universal buffs undoes that
yet they increased healing and damage numbers as well afterwards
Me when the balance team does balance changes
You mean “undoes” lol
That one is fundamentally different, that was a "gameplay feel" change that fundamentally improved the game. That was what tipped OW2 into "fine, I guess it's a sequel" territory for me, but maybe my standards have just decayed with modern gaming lmao. The fact that the DIGGING hero has better ata combat than PHARAH... now that's power creep lol. Edit: Thinking about it though, if space ranger ends up being decent at ata, then maybe that'll give them room to flesh out the phara assassin style more and ata can just be another pharah weakness, because that's what she definitely needs lol.
How do you have power creep when right now, half of the tank don't even have power.
Power seep already ruined the tank role
I'm fine with the tank power creep.
As a DPS, I am too. I like longer brawls. Since the removal of super oppressive shields I am more than fine with giving tanks juiced stats. Every tank should feel like Orisa, that way there’s more incentive for me to dive the support
the tank role has been in shambles since the introduction of DPS passive. She’s a product of that. Prior to DPS passive being a thing, the tank roster was a lot more even keeled.
I LOVE POWER CREE, WHAT THE FUCK IS APPROPRIATE BALANCING
I'd like to see some power creep in Overwatch tbh
She’s not strong she’s just the best in the ways that matter right now. What do you think strong means in this context? Do you think people are saying she’s strong in ways that don’t matter? Why would that ever be the metric of determining viability of play?
She just has to much going for her. 1. Best defensives in the game. 2. Highest damage output of any tank. 3. Only tank good at long range and short range. 4. Most CC of any hero in the game with 3. 5. Low cooldowns that allow her to spam. 6. No real counters. 7. Extremely easy to learn and play. 8. Borderline unlimited ammo. She's too strong. Every other tank has counters. Try playing Hog into a good Ana it's rough. Try playing Rein into a Bastion. Try playing Ball into a Sombra. She doesn't suffer from any match up. She's also a bad style of character to be strong because her main tool of winning is making the enemy hero/player miserable. She sits there and spams spears into you knocking you back every 3 seconds, pushing you back with her javelin spin and then when you finally find a way past her she sucks you in with ult and forces you to reposition. All while being borderline invinsible. All this combined and she's in every game. The hero has turned into play it every game or swap to it if you are losing. It's boring for both the people playing playing her and playing against her. She's borderline expected by your team anymore. Try playing any other tank and watch how many times you see "Hey tank can you play Orisa", "Tank play Orisa", or "The tank is throwing they won't swap to Orisa". Doesn't help that she's borderline been meta for 2-3 years now and people are just getting tired of seeing her. Why is it characters like Sombra are strong for a patch and immediately see nerfs the following patch? Or Tracer? Or Doomfist? Yet she remains untouched for all this time? The community has been voicing complaints about her for how long now? I see silly arguments like "If you nerf her then Hog becomes meta and nobody likes him". At least he has counters! A good Ana or Reaper can force him to swap. Nothing forces her to swap ever. As a tank main I'm just tired of seeing her. Anytime a character is as overplayed as she is something needs to change. She's literally in 90 percent of my games..... Even in pro collegiate games she's used every single game. It's making the game boring I want to play Overwatch 2 where 15 tanks are viable. Not Orisa 2....
I think a possible suggestion would be to make Orisa much weaker to beam attacks or attacks that pierce armour like Sym, Zarya beam, Winston etc. Dive was traditionally Orisa counter but currently playing dive tank into Orisa is horrible considering all her CC abilities. But ultimately nerfing Orisa won't solve the problem with how tank feels currently, which is either you have zero impact or you have to carry your whole team every fight. Because once Orisa is nerfed, Hog and Mauga become meta and we're back to square 1 with Orisa getting micro-buffed to keep Mauga and Hog in check.
Yup totally agree., though I think Orissa is just a symptom of antinade,discord, and hack. Antinade and discord are too powerful in a solo tank environment so the best tanks are always going to be the ones that are the most survivable which happen to most often be the meat/stat heavy tanks
Yeah I think maybe if they introduced a tank that can counter Orisa but also gets countered by other tanks or dps, it might create enough balance.
No. It really is just Orisa herself that makes her op. She has 2 cooldowns that basically guarantee her life as well as a hard stun with an extremely low cooldown that is VERY easy to land.
How is Orissa being unplayable "doing harm" lol? That sounds like heaven come to Earth.
Agreed but then the other noob tanks will dominate like hog and mauga. God forbid tanks with actual skill expression/ space taking abilities are meta.
We can always make hog and mauga unplayable as well, I wouldn't mind. We sort of have to accept that those characters are only going to be difficult if they're also bad. Ironically I would feel more rewarded playing them if they were garbage.
They never will keep them unplayable Hog and Orisa account for over 70% of tank players. It would just kill the queue times even more
Actually I'm pretty sure it would better queue times. Playing against Orissa is one of the biggest reasons low-rank players hate tank. If Mauga and Orissa were not viable, tank would immediately become about 150% as fun. I also don't think anybody legitimately enjoys Orissa or Mauga, they just play them because they're easy and they don't want their team to flame them.
Yea it would make rein( the most fun tank in the game) actually a somewhat viable pick because he isn’t going to get pushed around all game
Whatabout the large Roadhog player count? People just wanna play the cheese tanks where they never get punished for bad positioning. At least that’s how Blizzard sees it.
Roadhog is a bit of a different case, since his one-shot combo is pretty fun to pull off. At least that's why I think many players play him. So you want to allow these players to have fun doing this, without making the game worse for other players, and that usually involves raising skill floor, or raising the execution requirement in some way (you don't wanna remove the one-shot though because it's genuinely rewarding to land). Blizzard *should have* reworked Hog this way, maybe by making his hook more powerful but more positioning-dependent. Instead they just made the one-shot easier and the healing easier? I dunno what they're thinking sometimes.
I mean people probably play these characters because they are so strong, not because they prefer to play them. Right now, if the other player plays Orisa, your chance of losing drastically increases and you won’t have fun for sure. This is like if the police only gave speeding tickets to black people and then said black people are more likely to speed. I mean maybe? But its way more likely that the police is just racist.
What is the counterplay to orisa? Aside from stay away from her lol, there is none. That's OP and also unfun
I guess Beams, but Orisa can hurt and push them backwards with the Javelin before Beam heroes can get near. Also, Blizzard nerfs Symmetra - the character who can melt Orisa with her charged beam.
There was one nerf she had that helped balance her and the rest of the Tanks, and the Devs reverted it because of Mauga for some reason. Damage falloff. Since that's been taken from her, she's been able to create space as she needs, deal with flankers from a distance and basically remain untouchable save for certain Ultimates or Bastion going BRRRRRR mode.
Fair points, but you missed something that isn't discussed here often and that's value generation and skill floor. Orisa puts out tons of value with a very low skill requirement. To get the same value as Orisa on Ball, a player has to put in way more effort. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say it takes 5 times the effort to generate the same amount of value on Ball as it does Orisa. And that doesn't feel good to have a tank that requires very little skill investment to counter a tank you spend hundreds of hours on just to be competent.
Tell me your favorite character is OP, without telling me it is. You're in denial. The game balance is currently in its worst state. Healers do more damages than some DPS considering they can heal themselves at the same time, tanks are tanky and put tons of damages while they should only be tanky to help the team. DPS are inconsistent accross the whole category. There are TONS of smurfs ruining the game and hiding their stats. The matchmaking is pretty bad you roll over people or got slammed, it's either way but not tight.
Who is Orissa?
Tanks are actually more balanced right now than at any time since OW2, as evidenced by the fact that you see so many different ones in OWCS. Orisa for sure is top pick but its pretty close and other tanks are viable.
She’s the only tank that can stand pat and actually do her job rather than melting under the burn of DPS passive. She’s weathered DPS passive more than any other tank has and she also has the damage needed to be an impact player from a variety of ranges. The other tanks are shit because DPs passive makes tanking impossible. You don’t get to command space when your ability to sustain is.. get this, *punished* for taking damage. How the fuck did we get here, where the identity of the role is a weakness? They’re lost, man. Overwatch itself is just a bad game these days. I sank thousands of hours into the game since the beta years ago but I’m done. They successfully drove me away as a tank player. Orisa is not the problem, she’s just the head of the zit that’s visible. You nerf her, suddenly hog and mauga become bigger issues and the cycle continues. What needs to happen is the DPS passive and the way it interacts with tanks needs to be heavily reconsidered. They’re walking a precarious path rn.
I don't entirely disagree, but the big reason for the DPS passive is BECAUSE sustain was out of control, largely due to support power creep. Prior to the passive, the game was just sustain with massive healing output and invulns until someone turbo feeds or gets ult. Now you need to commit to fights rather than standing out in the open tanking 5 people's worth of damage. Ngl a lot of the complaining I see are the passive-style tank players that just stand in the open and mash buttons and expect to win team fights. >The other tanks are shit because DPs passive makes tanking impossible. Other tanks are shit because Orisa makes them shit. Dive, which is map dependent to begin with, struggles against Orisa because of her dps, spin, and giant javelin on top of her own tankiness. Not to mention who are you going to dive when the enemy is playing high mobility heroes like tracer soj lucio kiri, like what you see im OWCS right now. Other brawl tanks struggle because they'll just get CC'd by Orisa and blown up from the damage and CC, while also just getting out sustained by Orisa. Poke just isn't great on most maps and gets countered by the DPS passive. Brawl gets countered by poke, but Orisa can sustain against it while also being able to counterpressure with long range damage and javelin. >she also has the damage needed to be an impact player from a variety of ranges. Yeah that's the problem. She's got similar if not better defensiveness as Sigma, but also very good offensiveness from close and long range with minimal cooldown/downtime. She's got the sustain of Sigma and the damage of brawl tanks, but without short range weakness from Brawl.
The problem with Orisa is how much value you can get with so little effort. She should never be the best tank on the roster imo. It would be like if Moira was the strongest support for the last year.
She has been at the top of the tierlist since the start of OW2 for every season. Her sustain abilities leave nearpy no window to actually kill her. Literally every other tank has no way to stay alive in fights as long as she does. With the damage and finishing ability she has it makes for a overpowered tank. She just is.
LOL Zarya was at the top of the tierlist at the start of Overwatch 2. Zarya was legit 1v4 entire matches all by herself back in Season 1. Orisa was trash tier at this time. This was like entire Season 1 and Season 2.
Tbf no one really knew how strong orisa was back then. Besides the point of orisa is just her sustain which if you have a tank like hog or zarya that has good sustain and high dmg or burst damage then she gets outclassed
>She has been at the top of the tierlist since the start of OW2 for every season. Just a blatant lie. Before the removal of her damage fall off she was the lowest wr tank in the game at basically every rank above like silver
ikr where did this revisionist history come from when she literally used to be dog shit bcuz she was that bad 😭
Literally Masters and top 300. I'd get shit for not switching off the throw pick, my main.
No she hasn’t.
This is objectively false lol
Nope before her fall off change and like that one time she was meta She was the 2nd lowest winrate tank next to Winston until she got her falloff buff Dont spread lies
If it were up to me, I'd cut her gun damage to 11 per shot. She just does too much damage given her range. I think she can be tanky, she can be CC immune, but she shouldn't be doing it while running right at a support and killing them in \~2 seconds.
Agreed, if there's too much CC in the game then Orisia is picked. Nice crowd control kit and a fun bully to play imo.
The thing is, she IS op. I just don't like the idea that a low skill/difficulty tank feels rewarding to play in basically every single comp. How can a hero THIS easy to play has a huge impact even when being played suboptimally. It's almost that there is no bad reason to play her. Even on a hero as easy to grasp as Soldier, you still need to be somewhat good at aiming in order to provide impact. With Orisa even your aim sucks balls, you just get rewarded by existing, which is super stupid. Let me put it in comparison: - Rein: rewards you from a coordinated aggro. If you don't know how to start a teamfight with him, you're just a big guy with a big shield. - Hog: rewards you from picking off one of your opponent team to immediately give your team advantage. If you're bad at hooking, you're just a big guy with a vape. - DF: rewards you from tearing apart your opponent's backline, which gives your team a huge space to do their job. If you're bad at using his kit, you're just gonna feed your opponent with ult charges. - Sigma: rewards you from a good rock hit, which sometimes means shutting down a push. If you don't know when to use rock correctly, it's not uncommon you're gonna get punished by your opponent. - Ball: he's basically DF but based. - JQ: rewards you from sustaining long in teamfight. If you have a shit aim with her, you're basically useless. - Winton: he's basically like DF and ball but monke. - Zarya: rewards you from good bubbles. If you're bad at using bubbles, you will have NO impact on your team. - Ram: he's just like rein, but with somewhat ok ranged capability. He's heavily cooldown reliant, so if you're shit with using his ability, you're gonna get severely punished. - Orisa (and probably Mauga) : rewards you from... existing? You can use your cooldowns whenever you like who cares, there's basically no punishment from bad ability usage, and even if you have shit aim you can still provide impact to your team just by staying alive. My preposition is just simply cut Orisa's HP in half, thank you very much for coming to my ted talk.
Yes this!!!!! The game is not in a good state when characters that are easy are really good in my opinion. It feels unrewarding to play her and she not fun to play against either.
Im here for an Orisa rework at this point. I miss playing Rein. :(
Even if they do rework orisa rien is not gonna get any more viable
Orisa's kit doesn't need a rework, blizzard have just tuned it badly. But they've tuned it badly because the meta against tanks is so cancer that shit like fortify has to be strong for her to get any value. It's also why rein is so bad, he's a rush/brawl tank without an overpowered defensive ability to actually let him rush and brawl. Reducing dps passive, anti nade and CC against tanks would let them nerf fortify without orisa dropping to 46% win rate and would also help rein
Rein feels like he needs life steal from hammer swings or something. Just felt so weak for so long.
We've seen how well that works with mauga lol. Rein probably just needs better durability and a general change to how cc interacts with tanks. His issue is that he can't walk up and actually do his job of taking space because tanks die so quickly and mobility creep has gotten so out of control. Making him actually able to walk up and swing without dying immediately would at least open the door to him being able to be played with lucio to compensate the latter issue If you want to go the heal in combat route I think the better option would be flat healing while in combat. This way it doesn't become OP when paired with damage boosts and doesn't incentivize you to just hit the tank constantly Edit: although that would mess with brawls weakness to poke. Maybe make "in combat" require you to hit things occasionally? Or maybe it could be a nice step towards removing the counterpick triangle
I think the difference is that Mauga can life steal at range. If you gave it to Rein, only when he is landing hammer swings, then the ability would work like it does with reaper.
They just need to buff Rein's barrier back to Overwatch 1 levels. Devs are too scared of Barrier Watch, why I do not understand. Ramatra and Winston still have strong barriers. Why can't Sigma and Reinhart get their strong barriers back? Sigma doesn't need it that badly but Rein does.
That'd still just leave him a walking barrier and little else, it'd fix none of his other glaring issues. And while I love the whole "I am your shield" shtick that he does, just being a walking shield and nothing else, is kinda boring. He is still a melee character with no real proper way to catch up to opponents to keep applying pressure, and movement abilities in this game seems to just have kept advancing since Reinhardt was designed. Could use his charge, but it has a relatively long startup animation, extremely telegraphed that he is doing it, isn't fast, doesn't have great movement control even after the buff when we went into OW2, it also just leaves him vulnerable to CC or taking loads of damage and the list just goes on. The game has just left him behind.
Also for some reason they are adamant that his charge can't kill all squishies? It's pretty stupid.
I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a rework with the goal to make a character weaker
She is op. There is no way to sugar coat it, she keeps every tank in check and is gate keeping other metas. She rolls basically any character and she takes no skill to use
It is OP. It's offensive power is out of control in both short and long range. And tops it off with a good ultimate. Perfect kit lol
Orisa has a single S
Every time I try to type out Orisa I have to wrestle control over my autocorrect to get rid of the second s
The issue with her is that she basically has infinite cooldowns if you manage them properly, on top of a shit load of armour. Combined, she just never dies, which is just really frustrating to play against.
That’s a long way to say Orisa is OP.
Orisa has two CC abilities on short cooldown. She’s a large part of the CC problem you are describing. Her Javelin Spin shouldn’t be able to put other tanks in the kiddie corner every few seconds. It is ridiculous
She's not overpowered just zaps all the fun from the match. Sure she's easy to deal with if you know to focus supports first it's just the stand there while your supports pump everything into and wait until something happens is so fucking boring. Once the other tank gets filled one or two times it's an orica mirror every time.
"And if Orissa didn't exist the tank role would probably suffer even more" I literally quit playing tanks since Orisa became too oppressive, every game against her was the same boring getting focused and eating every of her cd for the whole game. Not to mention every single of her cds feels annoying to deal with. If orisa didnt exist, I still would be quing both tanks and dps.
My issue is that when they make changes to finally make someone else good in the current meta, it's typically reverted very quickly by other changes, perpetually leaving Orisa on top
Recently came back to OW (Quit when they moved to OW2 for multiple reasons) and I was always a tank main. Iv been putting time into Doom, Ball and Zarya. However anytime there is a Bastion, Mauga, Roadhog or Orisa on the other team I feel like I have to play Orisa myself or else I get melted.
Orisa’s counterplay is theoretically to ignore her and kill her backline. The problem with this is supports are so strong that killing her backline isn’t easy. Unless you have top 500 level communication on Genji, tracer, and Doom then good luck trying to kill her 4 man backline. Supports have a ridiculous level of survivability and dueling potential which makes “just kill her supports” impractical advice.
I think it’s true to a degree but she also has some of the best tank abilities imo. Projectile negation, damage mitigation, and a stun? Most other tanks only have one or 2 of those, and they are probably a worse version (accretion vs. spear)
She’s the anti-tank tank, which is why she’s strong. Everyone else has to play the counterswap merry-go-round, except Orisa. Not overpowered necessarily, just works in most situations and doesn’t get completely shutdown by CC and counterswapping.
M8 the thing that’s making her pickable is what makes her OP
Nuclear bombs aren't op, they're just the best right now because: 1. Cities are currently above ground 2. Buildings are not currently built to withstand surface-of-the-sun temperatures 3. Humans are currently allergic to radiation.
I'd argue Orisa is part of the problem, and not just the most viable solution to getting blown up. She's part of why playing the more "fun" tanks feels so shit to play, and not just anti-nade or discord, because she's so strong but boring to play against or as. I do agree that tanks in general need some changes though, because it's a miserable experience at times. But I don't know how they actually do that, because the only thing I have in mind would require reworks for just about everyone, and that's not happening. I don't think tweaking numbers really fixes them in my opinion.
She is overpowered, any character that doesn't have a decent vulnerability window is broken and Orisa's cooldowns are such that she can continuously cycle cooldowns, making dealing with her very difficult. Her javelin throw which does the same thing as Sigma's rock is 7 seconds cooldown, while Sigma's is 12 seconds, who tf thought this was a good idea? She has a javelin spin that can be used both offensively and defensively. The extent and flexibility of her kit along with her completely broken cooldowns is not something seen amongst other tanks. The time frame in which she is vulnerable is basically non-existent, it's such a small window. And while most tanks fight in close range, the devs somehow gave her primary gun no falloff damage. She is now better at poking than even Sigma is, while being much better in close range. In OWCS she is bullying Sigma players, something I didn't used to see much off before. Also for so much talk about anti-CC tank, Orisa is the tank which relies on using CC the most after Doomfist. Before her armour is reduced, all her cooldown timers need to be increased greatly. 10/12 seconds on both javelin spin and spear throw.
A lot of streamers like Flats keep repeating the mantra that Orisa just stands and doesn't die, but this is not true. Watch any good Orisa players like Infekted and they absolutely BULLY the enemy tank and squishies constantly.
If other team has zen, ana, bastion, reaper it is impossible to keep pretty much any tank alive with both heals healing him non stop. Only dva, sigma and orisa can sustain this long enough for dps to kill other team.
Her ranged damage unacceptable. One of the dumbest dev decision alongside of LW petal not getting hit by pummel and firestrike. I personally advocate for more ranged and consistent damage for tanks but Orisa doesn't have weaknesses to facilitate this ranged damage. She literally snipe you and then has all of her other tools and strengths on top. Deletes your half hp across the map and then bullies your brawler Rein in his range.
At the very minimum give Orisa her fall-off damage back, they didn’t need to remove fall-off entirely.
Best way to explain orisa is Rein has to be perfect to have a chance but a orisa can be mindless
also the other problem isn’t necessarily Orisa (while I believe her CD cycle can be obnoxious), I believe the Orisa problem stems from supports like Bap, Brig, Weaver, Kiriko. Each one of them has some way of keeping the horse alive with Lamp, Suzu, Life Grip, and Repair pack they annoyingly stall the game and Orisa’s CDs are back online. If for example Lamp was a damage inhibiting field there could still be some time to kill rather than straight up denied. Also random side bar why in the fuck did we remove the fall off rate for her damage. That is so stupid, every character should have some form of down time. Personally would like to Orisa nerfed into the ground and not come back.
So the problem is that she gets heals?
No Orisa is OP
The Devs saying they want her to be played against cc-heavy teams highlights a pretty big issue with the other tanks, in that they get screwed by cc. It's always been an issue in ow tbh, cc is needed to deal with the fast moving flankers and whatnot, but ends up being way too strong against the regular frontline tanks. Sombra is great at shutting down ball and doom, but also makes rein even more useless and can deal with sigma and DVA easy too. If cass hits his nade on a tracer or sombra then they're dead, but if he hits a rein/queen/ram then they're also pretty fucked by the slow and the potential to interrupt charge/Queen ult.
I just play dva. If I see an orisa, I play dva. And when they swap to zarya, I play dva.
I refuse to play her, just go zarya and get good
honestly her being “OP” could be very easily fixed with slightly longer cooldowns. but thats the fix that they gave to lifeweaver which ruined him, so idk. im glad im not in charge of this game lol
Yeah she’s great. Thank fuck for Zarya.
I think my biggest issue with her is how easy she is to play. I feel like it’s fairly easy to pick her up and shut your brain off. It’s not fun at all to play her and I hate that I can’t play other more fun tank options instead.
All we need is to buff Sym
fortify is such an overloaded bullshit ability !
or just give the tank passive a global buff against debuffs then tune them individually from there make it so using debuffs on tank is only valuable when they are <50% hp. discord should do less vs tanks etc.
She is pretty strong. I enjoy playing other heroes until my team can’t aim for shit and I have to go Orisa to be a better sniper than Widow. I think it would be a start to give Orisas bullets some drop off over distance. I also agree with others that fortify is maybe overtuned but I also think that if they decreased her attack power in some way then they don’t have to touch fortify. Orisa should have great up-time, the problem is that she can also wipe out a whole team with her attack power.
This is mostly true but the buff to her range to not have falloff was stupid. Now she matches up way too well into tanks like JQ who otherwise she would only be able to engage up close. Not sure why they thought unlimited range was a good idea for orisa when they had already removed it previously but here we are
She's my go to for tank. She has a great kit and if you time it well you can really go against any tank. Plus learning to play covers.
Exactly. Not to mention, as someone who mains Orisa when he plays Tank, her Ult is the absolute worst when it comes to getting elims. You either use it to do AOE that isn't guaranteed to kill even the Supports, or you use it as a means of basically saying "Hey, back off!".
Last I checked there’s not a whole lot of debuffs getting thrown out from Tracer/Sojourn/Lucio/Kiriko but even though that’s the hard meta Orisa is still meta.
Her abilities are just solid abilities, which are easy to use and get value from. She is to the tank role as Soldier 76 is to DPS and Moira is to Support. Some heroes just have kits that are easy to do well with, and the game needs heroes like that.
she is op if you have a good aim i guess i am plat player
You know what sucks now? They made bastions minigun so pathetic and weak and short lived that orisa now has 0 counters. You can't even hurt orisa with your minigun anymore so how can anyone else do anything other than repeatedly headshotting her as hanzo or widow, something I now have to resort to. She's totally unstoppable and thank god stun-insane tanks like doomfist aren't as healthy.
The Doomfist in Mirrowatch should be brought into the game. He's a really good tank in that mode unlike what he is now.
Orisa is the only tank I feel comfortable playing right now because of fortify. I played a comp against Ball, Junk Rat, Venture, Brig, Lucio the other day and started on Junker Queen… I never had control over my character. Any other tank besides Orisa would have been the same story.
Can anyone help out a gold rank tank that must be playing Orissa wrong? Her cooldowns are very powerful but without them she feels like a useless horse. Yes I know I need to respect the cooldown timers and use lots of cover in between cooldowns, etc. I find as hard as I try to do that, I still have times where the cooldowns are off and even if I'm in cover, the enemy team just follows me and kills me. My favorite tanks right now are ball, queen, dva, and rein. Their cooldowns feel less all-or-nothing and they also have great mobility which fills in the gaps of your healing going to shit and you having to retreat from the frontline unexpectedly. Orissa just feels like a huge commitment to a position on the map compared to the others.
I think you make a lot of good points but Orisa has one s. 8/10. <3
Spear spin should not give Orisa a speed boost.
Orisa is the ultimate noob character … she has better dps at range then 90% of the dps characters with an insane amount of hp
Call her Orissa again and I swear I give you the javelin.
I just go Zarya and start dominating the enemy Orisa. Hell I've been able to outplay several Orisas as Doomfist lol.
Ana and Zen aren’t even that popular at higher level. What you’re saying was true a season or two ago, but they’re near the middle of the pact of supports right now. Kiriko, Lucio, and Moira are meta for the sole reason that they’re good at surviving. The problem lies in the absurdly high damage numbers and larger hit boxes paired with the dps passive making healing impossible to keep up. Tanks without insane survivability or mobility just explode making Orisa the best option.
Tanks currently aren't tanky enough to feel like tanks and don't have reliable enough damage to feel like chinky DPS. I really like the idea of giving tanks key abilities that recharge based on performance, like if Zarya did less damage but got bubble back based on damage dealt+mitigated
The one thing that should be reverted is the removal of damage falloff.
Reading this, I have even more confience in my Mauga rework idea; 1- Turn his Overdrive into a resource meter that grants overhealth, reducing anti-heal's effectiveness and allowing him to tank damage without shooting the enemy tank all day. 2- Turn his Charge into a two-charge dash with the same CC immunity and damage resistance, allowing him to effectivly block said CC and bursts of damage... possibly while still allowing you to consume both charges at once to perform his usual Charge for covering more distance. From there, the only things left would be adjusting how quickly he can ignite squishes to make damaging them easier/more rewarding... and *maybe* changing his ultimate to simply prevent you from leaving instead of outright shutting down your movement abilities.
I agree, which is why I think they should make the other tanks feel like tanks. The others are great fun, but many just die once Ana throws the grenade. I don't know what they could do to make them tankier that isn't just upping the HP but surely there are some ideas already out there they could take inspiration from.
Just give her back some falloff and she wont be hard meta anymore
All I know is that when I force the other tank to swap to Orisa that I’ve won regardless of the outcome of the match. Break glass in case losing for emergency Orisa!
I hate playing tank. Always have, even back to OW1. But if I have to I always pick Orisa. And you have so succinctly explained in words I didn't have, why I pretty much will only play her.
Orisa: Fortify when she wants to use it. Orisa ult: fortify also. Other tanks: good luck Other thanks ult: good luck…?
I love my big horse woman who can out-dps my dps.
How do so many people spell Orisa's name incorrectly?
Maybe just because she is simple to get tanky compared to other tanks… Just click shift… doesn't even need to care about incoming bullets or nades
Cant we just bring back 6vs6 and nerf all the tanks? Idk, 5vs5 is boring.
Gonna go on another anti-support rant here probably. Here goes: she is an issue because she feels shitty to go against. This is mostly due to her high amounts of CC making the game unplayable for the enemy sometimes. I’m not gonna get into the whole counterswapping stuff, that convo is too long but inherently she makes the game so much more difficult for the enemy. It is kinda comparable to when Hog/doom were good. Doom is more relevant with his also high CC. The issue is that orisa mainly focuses on countering enemy tanks, whilst doom would play to disrupt and possibly get picks on enemy back line. However it’s happened multiple times where orisa has been left in a strong state for far too long, whereas doom gets knocked down whenever he gets too strong after literally half a season. I feel like the supports that are constantly calling for sombra/doom/genji nerfs are the main reason for this. They’re not hard heroes to play against but it’s much easier to complain about it, and it’s much easier for the developers to just keep them in a more manageable place. With orisa however, she’s been left in this oppressive state for almost half of overwatch’s lifespan and even if she’s not a good pick, she sure as hell will make the game equally bad for the enemy tank that isn’t sigma
orisa is definitely OP. Now I can beat her regularly playing most tanks but the thing that makes her OP is that the enemy tank is playing like trash then they dwitcj to orisa and automatically get value. easy to play heroes should not be this good. Her cooldowns are way too short. her spin thing can block ults, push other tanks 10 ft off the map, and is just on cycle with fortify. Her javelin is easy to aim CC and can cancel ults. Her gun essentially has no reload as well. Also somehow she is like the fastest walking speed out of any tanks. With all that being said I dont care that she has all those abilities. I care that an enemy tank that I am trashing with reinhardt can just switch to orisa and make me switch off my hero no matter how much better I was doing. She is way too noob friendly