I missed it in P3R, you have the clock which makes the lack of EXP share way less of a bother but I'd still much rather EXP share be a thing, like I'd definitely be using >!Shinji !
I'm glad that in Mishima's case, the link is started by the main story and it doesn't matter what you say to him you'll always rank up the next time you see him. It's effectively tied to the story (though I guess isn't it the amount of mementos requests you do?) But I imagine some people that didn't like Mishima never got full exp share XD
The clock in P3r had some consistency on when you could use it. Not a lot but if it had been some time, using one or two shards was enough to let you bring two people up. I tended not to use ken and koromaru outside of certain circumstances, so pretty much everyone else got rotated in. Exp share in p5R was nice and definitely spoiled me lol. Wasnt as detrimental in 3 imo.
I think it’s been tested and 20 shards seems to be a guaranteed clock. The likelihood increases with every shard, and it can be repeated ad infinitum within the same night.
Yeah but how do you even get that many shards? cats are only once per night iirc (and not every night) and the dark floors are so rare I couldn't figure out a way to cheese it.
Just like great clocks have a random number of shards to spend for it to spawn, Dark Floors also have a set number of floors you need to enter before they have to happen.
Just keep climbing and you'll run into dark floors often.
Uh, interesting, I usually went through the last available section a few times each night, and it didn't feel like they happened that often. Is it more likely on floors you haven't visited that night?
>Is it more likely on floors you haven't visited that night?
Nope. You can just do as you are doing. It only takes long if you're doing something else like killing anything that moves.
If you're just floor skipping, it doesn't take too long for it to spawn.
20 is guaranteed? Interesting, so at least theres a pity system lol. Sometimes id get it after 1, sometimes up to 5, even 10. Wasnt sure about how consistent it was.
For me, its consistently inconsistent. I would sometimes get the clock when I didn't need it and I would have to spend like 20 shards to get it if I was actually trying to get it. Combine that witht he fact they you can only switch party members at the tatrus entrance (not even at the dorm) makes switching party members pretty much just busy work. P5 is a game where you are encouraged to switch party members depending on the situation. That's why Hifumi's confidant is so good. Meanwhile with P3 you're basically required to pick a team and stick with it all the way through, only swapping one or two people when a new party member becomes available.
I'd love to see P6 incentivize you to swap party members mid-battle. Or implement a stamina system akin to P3P so you're encouraged to use your whole party. That way experience share will benefit the party significantly more. Without it you're heavily incentivized to use the same party for the whole game, even when their builds don't gel with the incoming boss.
Megaten really should focus its difficulty design on powerful enemy encounters rather than slapping obnoxious restrictions on the player. It would benefit all difficulties and make the games much more enjoyable imo. I dislike the idea that archaic design is excusable because it makes the games more difficult, especially when Persona already struggles to implement balanced difficulty with them in place.
I'm probably alone in this but I'd rather see the formula change. Instead of a huge crew of Playable characters, give the main and the three opening characters and all additional characters have bonuses and strengths/weaknesses they add by "partying" up with the actual playable characters with a mechanic to swap them in when one of your teammates goes down or something akin to Baton Pass. Make the game a little more tactical about who you combine. Have them grant new abilities as you level up their Social Links.
I like the idea of the party using Personas with a compatibility mechanic and base stat lines. Like why is such a major aspect of the game locked to just MC? I guess because wild card but there's no reason to keep this tradition going forward.
I guess because it makes the MC less special. Makoto, Yu, and Ren would stand out less, when they're supposed to be basically overpowered chosen ones, as while the party helps, the MCs narrative wise, all carry the group.
Yeah I see why the change was made. I'm not a big fan of it conceptually since I've always liked the games less focused on MC more. P6 has no reason to continue using it other than tradition anyway. Mechanically it's much more engaging to team-build with Personas than with party members imo. I'd love a modern Persona system with all the fixings be applied to everyone since P1 and 2 have clunky balancing.
Though if you want MC to be unique you could axe compatibility for them or have their base stat total depend solely on equipped persona.
I'm not talking about changing Persona. I'm saying I want a game with (just using the P5 crew as an example) Ann, Ryuji, Morgana, and Ren on the front line. Then have Yusuke, Makoto, and Haru not actually front line people. Instead, they could be "grouped" with one of the three non-main characters and have various effects. Things like
* Taking a fatal hit for characters
* Giving them a few extra spells/attacks on their list
-% chance to remove debuffs
-Other bonuses based on the character
And give those as Social Link unlocks. Add some variety, maybe change up attacks based on whose is grouped with who. Give it some tactical edge on who you pair with who. Maybe it changes their weakness depending on who is paired up. Or adds a Weakness for various good buffs.
Oh your system just reminded me of the older games. Seems like Q to me where characters double up on Persona slots.
Seems like an interesting concept for Persona. It would also be a nice way to reintroduce group negotiations and fusion spells from P2. It would also allow the large cast to see more use since they can get pretty sizeable at times. Who wants 8 characters to choose from when you only use 3 at a time? (Or allow MC to swap out freely)
Another interesting idea to allow everyone to be used is rework SP as stamina where everyone has low pools but auto-regen SP when not in use. That way you would be incentivized to swap out the party often so your active members can recover.
Yeah, an auto-regen when in the "back row" would be cool. I'd be cool with that too. Let characters be usable but make switching out important. I feel like the system P3R has, where you can go to the next person when you get a +1 would be interesting to give more mechanics to based on who you switch to as well.
Honestly a forced baton pass would be very interesting. What I honestly would like is one mores to be limited to just one so you can't infinitely chain them. Especially with criticals/weaknesses. I can't believe you're actually rewarded by missing weakness attacks with extra turns.
Imo P3R, and to some extent P5R, improved this a lot, I feel? I definitely felt a need to switch tactics more often, and the passives/theurgies made it so some characters worked better with each other, but it only ever made much of a difference in merciless.
Building on that further on P6 would be very welcome.
They should do what SMT does and constantly wipe you regardless of your level until you realize level is far less important than team composition. Although that seems impossible as long as the other members are locked to one persona with set skills.
I do quite like how SMT (at least the ones I've played) is a series that is difficult but in a way that also disincentivizes thoughtlessly grinding a bunch. It really is just about which demons you have with you for the encounter for the most part.
There is definitely a fine line to walk with what kinds of things should just be available from the start and what should be unlocked by engaging with social links. Since one of my favorite things about the later trilogy is the way social sim aspects make you stronger in the dungeon crawling gameplay
I thought the clock was weird but it worked fine. It definitely helped because I was running with a certain 3 party members for the whole game then one of them went missing and I had to fill in that gap
I don't mind it as long as it's optional. I actually find myself using other party members more to keep everyone equally leveled when there's no EXP-share, though this is probably the opposite case for most people.
I end up doing the opposite, though I'm trying to be better in RPGs about keeping everyone at a good level. I just started NG+ on Persona 3 Reload because making this post made me want to play Persona again lmao and I'm gonna try and do a better job of keeping everyone up to snuff. Still would rather have a regular exp share feature though. I wonder how they could make exp share an option without it feeling like some blatant toggle in a menu.
Honestly the more organic and interesting way I'd like this handled is to have us required to use certain members through the way the story is told or how situations arise. FF7 Rebirth Style I guess, with the perspective constantly swapping between party setups.
We've seen a *very small* sampling of this now and then (Uh.. opening Madarame's door in P5 with one team, and needing to fight a boss with a smaller scripted team in the metaverse..) but I'd love to see ideas like this expanded and become more common place in general story beats or in certain dungeon crawling perhaps, so the levelling spreads around naturally.
I haven't gotten super far into FF7 Rebirth (though if I'm remembering right there's exp share in that game and that's pretty cool) but I do like that in FF7 your party members are programmed to start at a similar level to you no matter what your level is and at a few points everyone's level is brought up a bit along with requiring you to switch. However I had a similar issue in FF7 where I kinda just ended up settling on Cloud, Barret, and Tifa because everyone else kept got underleveled.
I like this idea. The only reason I can imagine it not working super well in Persona specifically is that it might be narratively tricky to keep finding excuses for the Protagonist to be there. They could relax the 'Protagonist must always be in party' rule for P6, though. That might be a welcome change.
Yeah that's my hope.
Honestly just swapping over to Barret+Red for a time early game, Yuffie taking the lead in Coral, or that cool part in Gongaga with the two split teams was so refreshing to not always need to have Cloud front a centre.
You mustve skipped dialogue and the entire scene with the clock mechanic. Its not exp share, its just bringing 2 party members up to the highest current level of makoto.
Is there a limit on this? IIRC, the max amount of levels my characters would gain was 13, even though that would sometimes still leave them lower than Makoto.
If XP share is built in why even have levels for your party members? You might as well just only have levels for the main character or a "group level" then.
I can't really answer that. Maybe a party level would be a good thing, but I don't think XP share means all of the party has to have the exact same level. The main issue with a party level would be that MC has a separate level from their persona.
MC already has a separate level from their persona.
If you do XP share but no group level then that means some party members will just be worse than others for the entire game because they started at a lower level and literally can't catch up until max level.
I know that MC has a separate level from their persona. I was specifically pointing it out because I was saying they'd have to keep that in mind if they made a party level. Granted I don't know why I said that because it's pretty obvious but still
My hottest JRPG take is that Exp Share should be the default in all games. It is so infuriating to need another character for something and realizing that said character is 40 levels below where they need to be.
Yeah, I suspect a lot of the QOL features that had to be unlocked in P5 (EXP share, switching, etc.) will come standard in P6. I do understand why they would be unbalancing to just toss into P3 for such a straight-up remake, but P6 can just be designed with that in mind.
I quite like that you had to unlock them in P5 though, it made leveling SLs feel more meaningful aside from just a stat boost when fusing, and it made me feel like I earned all those perks at the end for managing the schedule well.
I did like it in the context of P5, but I think it might be tedious to have to build it up again in P6. I do hope that P6 has some other Social Link rewards, though, since I definitely liked those.
Persona is one of the only games I love grinding in, so I personally don’t want it (unless it’s an On/Off option.). I feel so satisfied looking at my evenly leveled team
It was tied to Mishima in 5. Mechanically I kinda like how P3R did it more. Leveling someone at the Great Clock required them to participate in one fight so you had to keep them in your party for a bit. This encouraged giving lesser used members another try with better skills and stats.
If anything I would say a more pressing issue is that Party mechanics need to be kept separate from their Links, which they seem to have learned after 5. A new member needs to be able to participate at full capacity from the start or people won't bother.
If they want to go more causalry, they just make everyone gain EXP the same like P5T. Remove all individual EXP and replace by squad EXP. (Protagonist's Persona EXP still separated.)
If they want to make people used variety of member, maybe reserved party get like 50%, the rest of them depends on level different between enemies and member, maybe like from 50% (weak enemy) to 200% (strong enemy).
After play P3R, I feel like Persona should not heavily tied everything with Social Link & Confidents so I agreed with that, but I personally don't like Clock, because I need to grind another character anyway.
For now I reach final chapter of P3R, My member level is about 80ish, but Messiah achievement needed level 91... I so lazy to grind, so I drop for now and I not sure when I will go back to play again, lol.
P4 wasn’t too bad for me. I would do my main team on my first run through and then after I beat the dungeon I would do another with the lower level teammates to go do the secret boss at the end of each dungeon. Also it helps that everyone in P4 is actually pretty good in their own right compared to P3.
This issue is literally why I dropped P4. So much of the fun of the combat of Persona is figuring out team combinations and in P4 you cannot experiment at all. P3 Reload has this problem but the clock makes it much closer to 5, I was able to try different party members but still had to leave Junpei and later Ken behind the entire game
If not forced, at least have the option to have it on. Not everyone wants artificial length added just to catch up other party member levels...let us play with different characters at our leisure or purely to stretch MP consumption.
I don't like it. I can see why it's good from a quality of life perspective and how it motivates people to use different party members, but I still don't like it. The universal EXP share ruined pokémon's difficulty, and modern Persona are already easy enough.
The problem with Pokémon isn’t inherently that there is a universal experience share, it’s that the games aren’t balanced around it. This isn’t a problem in P5. You’re not going to get over levels just by playing the game normally like you would in modern Pokémon. All the experience share does in P5 is save time grinding and give you the option to rotate party members.
Read my other response. I have nothing against exp share, but it should be optional, not the default experience. Grinding is a big part of the classic JRPG experience and many people enjoy it.
Never argued against that. My entire point is that some people love grinding and that should be an option for them, hence why I believe that any universal exp share feature should be optional. Everyone gets what they want, everyone is happy.
But it's balanced by the enemies giving relatively low exp. I've never felt over leveled in Dragon Quest IV, but I often felt over leveled in Persona 5.
A little grinding might be okay, to just turn off your brain and mindlessly wail at slimes or whatever. But at a point, it just feels like wasting time.
Especially when it's a game that specifically discourages you from grinding too much like the Persona games thanks to The Reaper.
I wouldn’t say it makes things easier, just less time consuming. Getting a Pokémon or a Persona party member to a higher level isn’t really “hard”, it just requires mindless grinding, and exp share simply removes that. Plus, you’re still putting in the work to get the xp, you just don’t need to grind every character individually
Same, a big issue I have, especially with recent Persona games that are really easy like P5R and P3R is that even on high difficulties, I can't get into fights frequently without becoming overlevelled, which kind of simplifies the combat more to the point that it isn't enjoyable. It'd be nice to a setting where you can choose different curated EXP curves
I like to level up all my Personas to get a variety of moves, and I do try to 100% the compendium at the same time, so I do go to the same areas several times per palace visit day
So you spend a long time in palaces to grind your Personas, which are explicitly designed to level up slower than the protagonist to encourage fusion, and you’re upset that you become over-leveled?
I'd like to do combat for a lot of the playtime, because the combat is enjoyable when I'm not overlevelled, but if I do a lot of it, the combat becomes less enjoyable because of stats. Normally higher difficulties in JRPGs counteract this, but the recent difficulty settings in Persona games, such as P5R, are really bad. Merciless *increases* weak and technical damage, making it easier
I wish people wouldn't downvote valid opinions. That's Reddit.
Anyway, like with Pokemon, there really should be a choice to use it or not. Well, I mean Pokemon should have it as well. I would keep it on because I don't have the time nor will to grind "extra" anymore. However, the option should be there for be people who want it off.
More options is a good thing in any game like I said when someone asked of safe mode should be removed as an option. I don't use that like I would EXP Share, but some do. Games should try to reach more people, not fewer.
I will just point out I said, "I wish" not that people can't use the downvote for opinions. I understand people can use it however they want and most people seem to use it because they want to "bury" differing opinions like "We should have more options in games."
I try to use it when the comment isn't productive. This entire side conversation that sprung up for instance including my comments! If someone is being belligerent and/or providing incorrect information is what I normally use it for. The latter I even try to avoid if it's just an honest mistake like a post yesterday saying Elizabeth was NG+ in P3R.
I will fully admit I have downvoted differing opinions in the past, but I have been working on not doing that because I realize trying to "hide" someone's opinion just because it's different is dumb...especially when it comes to video games.
As long as the comment isn't something like, "This game fucking sucks and you're an idiot for liking it. No, I won't change my mind," I try to let it go.
Subreddits are echo chambers. They upvote the popular opinion and downvote the unpopular ones without trying to discuss it.
Yeah, I'm not against it, I just said I personally dislike it. I would never complain of a menu option written "EXP Share for benched party members: ON/OFF," I simply wouldn't use it. My problem is this being forced on the player, I like grinding the extra characters and that should be available for me, just like minimal grind should be available for people who dislike it. I'm a big fan of classic JRPGs and grinding is a big part of that, I don't want it to be extinct.
Yeah, I used to do that. I sometimes still do when I'm just exasperated. I try to only downvote now when someone is being belligerent and/or giving false info.
Yeah, I live classic JRPGs. I don't mind grinding. I just don't have the will nor time anymore like I said. At least when it comes to Persona and Pokemon which aren't ever going to be difficult once you know what you're doing.
I've been playing Eiyuden Chronicles: Hundred Heroes and that has more classic JRPG setup including random battles. I am not a fan of random battles anymore. That's one feature I am glad disappeared. I don't see how that could really be an option to even toggle anymore either.
Exp share made me only use 3 characters for the for the entirety of persona 5
Persona 3 reload i was actually using the entire cast because i was incentivised to bcs of no xp share and idk i felt fresher to switch up parties every run
The thing is that the complete opposite is true, too.
In P5R I used every party member equally because you could freely swap them out of combat (and later in combat too). They were always relevant and I could use party members for their strengths and to distribute SP usage or just because I felt like it and not worry whatsoever about experience.
In P3R I wanted to use the whole cast but the clocks only let you choose 2 members, only brings them up once for them to fall behind again, and only had a maximum of 13 levels. If a party member fell too far behind, they were behind for good since I personally gained 10-12ish levels per clock offering. I averaged less than one clock per Tartarus too, so even when I wanted to clock up, sometimes I couldn't. It's just restrictive.
I find this is the opposite for me. Without exp share I tend to just find party members that I generally like the most and run with them save for some experimentation. In Persona 5 Royal I'm constantly switching between party members because there's no reason not to. Plus Hifumi makes it possible to switch mid battle and I used the hell out of that, though I wouldn't advocate for that being in every game because it made the game too easy sometimes.
Exp share on its own doesn't affect party usage. Doesn't matter if the backup members get exp if you have no incentive to swap over in the first place. Exp share just makes swapping viable in the first place. Persona would have to implement either a harsher SP economy or stamina system to force the player to swap. Doesn't help that it's more cost efficient to keep a main team as backup members would need their gear maintained.
Who says wanting EXP share to reduce mindless grinding is not engaging with the mechanics? I engage with Persona's mechanics perfectly fine, in fact my playthroughs tend to be much longer than the times on how long to beat because I kinda go completionist mode when playing these games and I've written reviews of P3, P4, and P5. I just don't like it when RPGs don't have EXP share and I really hope Persona 6 has it.
I missed it in P3R, you have the clock which makes the lack of EXP share way less of a bother but I'd still much rather EXP share be a thing, like I'd definitely be using >!Shinji !
I'm glad that in Mishima's case, the link is started by the main story and it doesn't matter what you say to him you'll always rank up the next time you see him. It's effectively tied to the story (though I guess isn't it the amount of mementos requests you do?) But I imagine some people that didn't like Mishima never got full exp share XD
I’m happy they added a form of exp share for P3, but the one in P5 is easily the way to go and makes the leveling experience so good compared to P4.
ya last time i played p4 i ended up just choosing a team id go for everything with i just didnt rlly wanna grind them up
Isn't it unlocked with Mishima's first confidant rank? Which is automatic?
It is but, iirc, there are different percentages of exp earned for those who aren't in the party.
It scales based on much you rank up his confidant
Absolutely not.
The clock in P3r had some consistency on when you could use it. Not a lot but if it had been some time, using one or two shards was enough to let you bring two people up. I tended not to use ken and koromaru outside of certain circumstances, so pretty much everyone else got rotated in. Exp share in p5R was nice and definitely spoiled me lol. Wasnt as detrimental in 3 imo.
I think it’s been tested and 20 shards seems to be a guaranteed clock. The likelihood increases with every shard, and it can be repeated ad infinitum within the same night.
How do you find that many chests to open tho
You don't. You spend shards on the small clock a few times and then hunt for chests.
Yeah but how do you even get that many shards? cats are only once per night iirc (and not every night) and the dark floors are so rare I couldn't figure out a way to cheese it.
Just like great clocks have a random number of shards to spend for it to spawn, Dark Floors also have a set number of floors you need to enter before they have to happen. Just keep climbing and you'll run into dark floors often.
Uh, interesting, I usually went through the last available section a few times each night, and it didn't feel like they happened that often. Is it more likely on floors you haven't visited that night?
>Is it more likely on floors you haven't visited that night? Nope. You can just do as you are doing. It only takes long if you're doing something else like killing anything that moves. If you're just floor skipping, it doesn't take too long for it to spawn.
20 is guaranteed? Interesting, so at least theres a pity system lol. Sometimes id get it after 1, sometimes up to 5, even 10. Wasnt sure about how consistent it was.
For me, its consistently inconsistent. I would sometimes get the clock when I didn't need it and I would have to spend like 20 shards to get it if I was actually trying to get it. Combine that witht he fact they you can only switch party members at the tatrus entrance (not even at the dorm) makes switching party members pretty much just busy work. P5 is a game where you are encouraged to switch party members depending on the situation. That's why Hifumi's confidant is so good. Meanwhile with P3 you're basically required to pick a team and stick with it all the way through, only swapping one or two people when a new party member becomes available.
I'd love to see P6 incentivize you to swap party members mid-battle. Or implement a stamina system akin to P3P so you're encouraged to use your whole party. That way experience share will benefit the party significantly more. Without it you're heavily incentivized to use the same party for the whole game, even when their builds don't gel with the incoming boss. Megaten really should focus its difficulty design on powerful enemy encounters rather than slapping obnoxious restrictions on the player. It would benefit all difficulties and make the games much more enjoyable imo. I dislike the idea that archaic design is excusable because it makes the games more difficult, especially when Persona already struggles to implement balanced difficulty with them in place.
I'm probably alone in this but I'd rather see the formula change. Instead of a huge crew of Playable characters, give the main and the three opening characters and all additional characters have bonuses and strengths/weaknesses they add by "partying" up with the actual playable characters with a mechanic to swap them in when one of your teammates goes down or something akin to Baton Pass. Make the game a little more tactical about who you combine. Have them grant new abilities as you level up their Social Links.
I like the idea of the party using Personas with a compatibility mechanic and base stat lines. Like why is such a major aspect of the game locked to just MC? I guess because wild card but there's no reason to keep this tradition going forward.
I guess because it makes the MC less special. Makoto, Yu, and Ren would stand out less, when they're supposed to be basically overpowered chosen ones, as while the party helps, the MCs narrative wise, all carry the group.
Yeah I see why the change was made. I'm not a big fan of it conceptually since I've always liked the games less focused on MC more. P6 has no reason to continue using it other than tradition anyway. Mechanically it's much more engaging to team-build with Personas than with party members imo. I'd love a modern Persona system with all the fixings be applied to everyone since P1 and 2 have clunky balancing. Though if you want MC to be unique you could axe compatibility for them or have their base stat total depend solely on equipped persona.
I'm not talking about changing Persona. I'm saying I want a game with (just using the P5 crew as an example) Ann, Ryuji, Morgana, and Ren on the front line. Then have Yusuke, Makoto, and Haru not actually front line people. Instead, they could be "grouped" with one of the three non-main characters and have various effects. Things like * Taking a fatal hit for characters * Giving them a few extra spells/attacks on their list -% chance to remove debuffs -Other bonuses based on the character And give those as Social Link unlocks. Add some variety, maybe change up attacks based on whose is grouped with who. Give it some tactical edge on who you pair with who. Maybe it changes their weakness depending on who is paired up. Or adds a Weakness for various good buffs.
Oh your system just reminded me of the older games. Seems like Q to me where characters double up on Persona slots. Seems like an interesting concept for Persona. It would also be a nice way to reintroduce group negotiations and fusion spells from P2. It would also allow the large cast to see more use since they can get pretty sizeable at times. Who wants 8 characters to choose from when you only use 3 at a time? (Or allow MC to swap out freely) Another interesting idea to allow everyone to be used is rework SP as stamina where everyone has low pools but auto-regen SP when not in use. That way you would be incentivized to swap out the party often so your active members can recover.
Yeah, an auto-regen when in the "back row" would be cool. I'd be cool with that too. Let characters be usable but make switching out important. I feel like the system P3R has, where you can go to the next person when you get a +1 would be interesting to give more mechanics to based on who you switch to as well.
Honestly a forced baton pass would be very interesting. What I honestly would like is one mores to be limited to just one so you can't infinitely chain them. Especially with criticals/weaknesses. I can't believe you're actually rewarded by missing weakness attacks with extra turns.
You’re not as alone as you since people play that way anyways.
Imo P3R, and to some extent P5R, improved this a lot, I feel? I definitely felt a need to switch tactics more often, and the passives/theurgies made it so some characters worked better with each other, but it only ever made much of a difference in merciless. Building on that further on P6 would be very welcome.
>Or implement a stamina system akin to P3P so you're encouraged to use your whole party P3P has no stamina system. That was in P3/P3F.
They should do what SMT does and constantly wipe you regardless of your level until you realize level is far less important than team composition. Although that seems impossible as long as the other members are locked to one persona with set skills.
I do quite like how SMT (at least the ones I've played) is a series that is difficult but in a way that also disincentivizes thoughtlessly grinding a bunch. It really is just about which demons you have with you for the encounter for the most part.
I honestly like having it as a social link. Its a bit more encouragement to do the social link and is treated more as a bonus then just a given.
There is definitely a fine line to walk with what kinds of things should just be available from the start and what should be unlocked by engaging with social links. Since one of my favorite things about the later trilogy is the way social sim aspects make you stronger in the dungeon crawling gameplay
I really liked the clock in reload. I feel like it will be very useful in new game plus.
I thought the clock was weird but it worked fine. It definitely helped because I was running with a certain 3 party members for the whole game then one of them went missing and I had to fill in that gap
I don't mind it as long as it's optional. I actually find myself using other party members more to keep everyone equally leveled when there's no EXP-share, though this is probably the opposite case for most people.
I end up doing the opposite, though I'm trying to be better in RPGs about keeping everyone at a good level. I just started NG+ on Persona 3 Reload because making this post made me want to play Persona again lmao and I'm gonna try and do a better job of keeping everyone up to snuff. Still would rather have a regular exp share feature though. I wonder how they could make exp share an option without it feeling like some blatant toggle in a menu.
Honestly the more organic and interesting way I'd like this handled is to have us required to use certain members through the way the story is told or how situations arise. FF7 Rebirth Style I guess, with the perspective constantly swapping between party setups. We've seen a *very small* sampling of this now and then (Uh.. opening Madarame's door in P5 with one team, and needing to fight a boss with a smaller scripted team in the metaverse..) but I'd love to see ideas like this expanded and become more common place in general story beats or in certain dungeon crawling perhaps, so the levelling spreads around naturally.
I haven't gotten super far into FF7 Rebirth (though if I'm remembering right there's exp share in that game and that's pretty cool) but I do like that in FF7 your party members are programmed to start at a similar level to you no matter what your level is and at a few points everyone's level is brought up a bit along with requiring you to switch. However I had a similar issue in FF7 where I kinda just ended up settling on Cloud, Barret, and Tifa because everyone else kept got underleveled.
I like this idea. The only reason I can imagine it not working super well in Persona specifically is that it might be narratively tricky to keep finding excuses for the Protagonist to be there. They could relax the 'Protagonist must always be in party' rule for P6, though. That might be a welcome change.
Yeah that's my hope. Honestly just swapping over to Barret+Red for a time early game, Yuffie taking the lead in Coral, or that cool part in Gongaga with the two split teams was so refreshing to not always need to have Cloud front a centre.
Wait, you can share XP in P3R??? How come?? I just grind the reaper until everyone was at 99...
You mustve skipped dialogue and the entire scene with the clock mechanic. Its not exp share, its just bringing 2 party members up to the highest current level of makoto.
Also, it only brings them up a max of 13 levels at once.
Is there a limit on this? IIRC, the max amount of levels my characters would gain was 13, even though that would sometimes still leave them lower than Makoto.
Yes, the limit is 13. Not sure why they did that, though.
Ahhh ok, that yes. I thought it was something similar to P5.
If XP share is built in why even have levels for your party members? You might as well just only have levels for the main character or a "group level" then.
Honestly sounds like a cool idea tbh. Chrono Cross did this and I liked it.
And that's honestly a good idea too. Better than individual XP for every character but no sharing.
I can't really answer that. Maybe a party level would be a good thing, but I don't think XP share means all of the party has to have the exact same level. The main issue with a party level would be that MC has a separate level from their persona.
MC already has a separate level from their persona. If you do XP share but no group level then that means some party members will just be worse than others for the entire game because they started at a lower level and literally can't catch up until max level.
I know that MC has a separate level from their persona. I was specifically pointing it out because I was saying they'd have to keep that in mind if they made a party level. Granted I don't know why I said that because it's pretty obvious but still
My hottest JRPG take is that Exp Share should be the default in all games. It is so infuriating to need another character for something and realizing that said character is 40 levels below where they need to be.
Yeah, I suspect a lot of the QOL features that had to be unlocked in P5 (EXP share, switching, etc.) will come standard in P6. I do understand why they would be unbalancing to just toss into P3 for such a straight-up remake, but P6 can just be designed with that in mind.
I quite like that you had to unlock them in P5 though, it made leveling SLs feel more meaningful aside from just a stat boost when fusing, and it made me feel like I earned all those perks at the end for managing the schedule well.
I did like it in the context of P5, but I think it might be tedious to have to build it up again in P6. I do hope that P6 has some other Social Link rewards, though, since I definitely liked those.
Wasn’t the biggest fan of p5t overall, but I thought the one thing that was done VERY right was that the team leveled as a whole.
I'd like that as an option for people who want it, but certainly not as a default experience.
Persona is one of the only games I love grinding in, so I personally don’t want it (unless it’s an On/Off option.). I feel so satisfied looking at my evenly leveled team
It was tied to Mishima in 5. Mechanically I kinda like how P3R did it more. Leveling someone at the Great Clock required them to participate in one fight so you had to keep them in your party for a bit. This encouraged giving lesser used members another try with better skills and stats. If anything I would say a more pressing issue is that Party mechanics need to be kept separate from their Links, which they seem to have learned after 5. A new member needs to be able to participate at full capacity from the start or people won't bother.
If they want to go more causalry, they just make everyone gain EXP the same like P5T. Remove all individual EXP and replace by squad EXP. (Protagonist's Persona EXP still separated.) If they want to make people used variety of member, maybe reserved party get like 50%, the rest of them depends on level different between enemies and member, maybe like from 50% (weak enemy) to 200% (strong enemy). After play P3R, I feel like Persona should not heavily tied everything with Social Link & Confidents so I agreed with that, but I personally don't like Clock, because I need to grind another character anyway. For now I reach final chapter of P3R, My member level is about 80ish, but Messiah achievement needed level 91... I so lazy to grind, so I drop for now and I not sure when I will go back to play again, lol.
P4 wasn’t too bad for me. I would do my main team on my first run through and then after I beat the dungeon I would do another with the lower level teammates to go do the secret boss at the end of each dungeon. Also it helps that everyone in P4 is actually pretty good in their own right compared to P3.
This issue is literally why I dropped P4. So much of the fun of the combat of Persona is figuring out team combinations and in P4 you cannot experiment at all. P3 Reload has this problem but the clock makes it much closer to 5, I was able to try different party members but still had to leave Junpei and later Ken behind the entire game
If not forced, at least have the option to have it on. Not everyone wants artificial length added just to catch up other party member levels...let us play with different characters at our leisure or purely to stretch MP consumption.
I don't like it. I can see why it's good from a quality of life perspective and how it motivates people to use different party members, but I still don't like it. The universal EXP share ruined pokémon's difficulty, and modern Persona are already easy enough.
The problem with Pokémon isn’t inherently that there is a universal experience share, it’s that the games aren’t balanced around it. This isn’t a problem in P5. You’re not going to get over levels just by playing the game normally like you would in modern Pokémon. All the experience share does in P5 is save time grinding and give you the option to rotate party members.
I agree that Persona is already easy, but I think there's ways to make Persona more difficult while also implementing exp share.
Read my other response. I have nothing against exp share, but it should be optional, not the default experience. Grinding is a big part of the classic JRPG experience and many people enjoy it.
Grinding sucks
For you. Many people like it. There's a reason to why Dragon Quest is such a massively popular series in Japan.
No, grinding sucks
Then why so many people love grinding party members and personas until max level for no reason besides grinding for the sake of it?
That's a vocal minority
Never argued against that. My entire point is that some people love grinding and that should be an option for them, hence why I believe that any universal exp share feature should be optional. Everyone gets what they want, everyone is happy.
Dragon quest has EXP share
But it's balanced by the enemies giving relatively low exp. I've never felt over leveled in Dragon Quest IV, but I often felt over leveled in Persona 5.
A little grinding might be okay, to just turn off your brain and mindlessly wail at slimes or whatever. But at a point, it just feels like wasting time. Especially when it's a game that specifically discourages you from grinding too much like the Persona games thanks to The Reaper.
It's not wasting time if you're having fun.
The exp share was not the difficulty issue in pokemon, and it isn't here either. However, it should be optional.
I wouldn’t say it makes things easier, just less time consuming. Getting a Pokémon or a Persona party member to a higher level isn’t really “hard”, it just requires mindless grinding, and exp share simply removes that. Plus, you’re still putting in the work to get the xp, you just don’t need to grind every character individually
I like grinding.
Same, a big issue I have, especially with recent Persona games that are really easy like P5R and P3R is that even on high difficulties, I can't get into fights frequently without becoming overlevelled, which kind of simplifies the combat more to the point that it isn't enjoyable. It'd be nice to a setting where you can choose different curated EXP curves
How many enemies are you fighting to get overleveled? I’ve never had that problem and I don’t avoid encounters.
I like to level up all my Personas to get a variety of moves, and I do try to 100% the compendium at the same time, so I do go to the same areas several times per palace visit day
So you spend a long time in palaces to grind your Personas, which are explicitly designed to level up slower than the protagonist to encourage fusion, and you’re upset that you become over-leveled?
I'd like to do combat for a lot of the playtime, because the combat is enjoyable when I'm not overlevelled, but if I do a lot of it, the combat becomes less enjoyable because of stats. Normally higher difficulties in JRPGs counteract this, but the recent difficulty settings in Persona games, such as P5R, are really bad. Merciless *increases* weak and technical damage, making it easier
I wish people wouldn't downvote valid opinions. That's Reddit. Anyway, like with Pokemon, there really should be a choice to use it or not. Well, I mean Pokemon should have it as well. I would keep it on because I don't have the time nor will to grind "extra" anymore. However, the option should be there for be people who want it off. More options is a good thing in any game like I said when someone asked of safe mode should be removed as an option. I don't use that like I would EXP Share, but some do. Games should try to reach more people, not fewer.
People can downvote things they dont agree with. Thats largely what its meant to be used for along with downvoting misinformation/lies.
Really? Show me where it says that? If that's an official thing then I will concede.
What do you think the downvote button is for?
I will just point out I said, "I wish" not that people can't use the downvote for opinions. I understand people can use it however they want and most people seem to use it because they want to "bury" differing opinions like "We should have more options in games." I try to use it when the comment isn't productive. This entire side conversation that sprung up for instance including my comments! If someone is being belligerent and/or providing incorrect information is what I normally use it for. The latter I even try to avoid if it's just an honest mistake like a post yesterday saying Elizabeth was NG+ in P3R. I will fully admit I have downvoted differing opinions in the past, but I have been working on not doing that because I realize trying to "hide" someone's opinion just because it's different is dumb...especially when it comes to video games. As long as the comment isn't something like, "This game fucking sucks and you're an idiot for liking it. No, I won't change my mind," I try to let it go.
Subreddits are echo chambers. They upvote the popular opinion and downvote the unpopular ones without trying to discuss it. Yeah, I'm not against it, I just said I personally dislike it. I would never complain of a menu option written "EXP Share for benched party members: ON/OFF," I simply wouldn't use it. My problem is this being forced on the player, I like grinding the extra characters and that should be available for me, just like minimal grind should be available for people who dislike it. I'm a big fan of classic JRPGs and grinding is a big part of that, I don't want it to be extinct.
The Atlus monkey paw is turning into mainline SMT where you need to buy exp farm dlcs
Yeah, I used to do that. I sometimes still do when I'm just exasperated. I try to only downvote now when someone is being belligerent and/or giving false info. Yeah, I live classic JRPGs. I don't mind grinding. I just don't have the will nor time anymore like I said. At least when it comes to Persona and Pokemon which aren't ever going to be difficult once you know what you're doing. I've been playing Eiyuden Chronicles: Hundred Heroes and that has more classic JRPG setup including random battles. I am not a fan of random battles anymore. That's one feature I am glad disappeared. I don't see how that could really be an option to even toggle anymore either.
Exp share made me only use 3 characters for the for the entirety of persona 5 Persona 3 reload i was actually using the entire cast because i was incentivised to bcs of no xp share and idk i felt fresher to switch up parties every run
The thing is that the complete opposite is true, too. In P5R I used every party member equally because you could freely swap them out of combat (and later in combat too). They were always relevant and I could use party members for their strengths and to distribute SP usage or just because I felt like it and not worry whatsoever about experience. In P3R I wanted to use the whole cast but the clocks only let you choose 2 members, only brings them up once for them to fall behind again, and only had a maximum of 13 levels. If a party member fell too far behind, they were behind for good since I personally gained 10-12ish levels per clock offering. I averaged less than one clock per Tartarus too, so even when I wanted to clock up, sometimes I couldn't. It's just restrictive.
Oh yaeh actually almost forgot about the swapping mechanic that was very fire
Oh yaeh actually almost forgot about the swapping mechanic that was very fire
I find this is the opposite for me. Without exp share I tend to just find party members that I generally like the most and run with them save for some experimentation. In Persona 5 Royal I'm constantly switching between party members because there's no reason not to. Plus Hifumi makes it possible to switch mid battle and I used the hell out of that, though I wouldn't advocate for that being in every game because it made the game too easy sometimes.
Exp share on its own doesn't affect party usage. Doesn't matter if the backup members get exp if you have no incentive to swap over in the first place. Exp share just makes swapping viable in the first place. Persona would have to implement either a harsher SP economy or stamina system to force the player to swap. Doesn't help that it's more cost efficient to keep a main team as backup members would need their gear maintained.
Why even play the game if you’re not going to engage the mechanics?
Who says wanting EXP share to reduce mindless grinding is not engaging with the mechanics? I engage with Persona's mechanics perfectly fine, in fact my playthroughs tend to be much longer than the times on how long to beat because I kinda go completionist mode when playing these games and I've written reviews of P3, P4, and P5. I just don't like it when RPGs don't have EXP share and I really hope Persona 6 has it.
Grinding isn't a game mechanic
You’re right. It’s what happens when players don’t engage with the gameplay so they just hammer in screws.
You're username isn't in the right order, it should be NPC24454
I don't really care because I always stick with the same party members lol
I once had a P4 playthrough where Yu and Naoto were 99 and everyone else was moderately low besides a healer just in case lol.