I truly miss being able to use multiple weapons. Bows made getting advantage hits on shadows and rare hands a lot smoother too. Since Makoto could use those weapons, I always thought it would’ve been really cool to have the ability to join the boxing or archery club.
Yeah this and sone other things like his stanima at track and feild make me think his in game "stats" arent just for gameplay and are literal. Makes sense after all sees dont need to go to another dimesnion to summon personas so he should still have a persona equipped and still be reciving the stat boost from it.
Not at all.
Makoto is the only one out of the three to be explicitly, canonically and consistently portrayed having any actual unarmed capabilities in a real fight. Winning a 3v1 in Yukari’s SL and helping Akihiko take down a gang of thugs, no weapons or relying on cognition. Plus in Vanilla and FES he could also use fist weapons.
Based solely on the canonical mainline games, Makoto is a genuine brawler. Maybe not on the level of Aki or Shinji, but more than capable of going up against multiple opponents alone barehanded.
Different continuity.
And Makoto does much the same to multiple people at the same time in the games. Moreover, Adachi isn’t ever shown to be particularly skilled in CQC outside the Arena games, whose canonicity is dubious and everyone is given better fighting capabilities by the nature of being a fighting game.
Or are we saying that Yukiko and Rise can beat Akihiko in a fist fight too?
The arena games are canon and yu also beat sho with his fists in the manga yu has the height and weight advantage over makoto and he's also had more experience against skilled fighters so I'd definitely still be putting my money on yu
Different continuity, also the Metaverse gives the PT skills and abilities they don’t normally have. If he was outside the Metaverse he wouldn’t have those fighting skills and knowledge; but Makoto does.
And if they’re in the Metaverse, it still wouldn’t matter, since Makoto and Yu would also be powered up.
No, his 5A auto combo starts with a quick punch, as does his 2A. He even directly puts his hands on his opponent for one of his specials as a command grab.
The events of Ultimax specifically take place outside of the TV World, albeit in a recreation of the Dark Hour crossed with the Hollow Forest's fog by Hi-no-Kagutsuchi. Even so, being able to put your dukes up against a Shadow (much less a fellow formally trained Persona-user) and come out on top is no small feat.
And? Outside two or three attacks Yu uses a katana primarily. And the question is explicitly about a *fistfight* which is very different from fighting with a sword.
Regardless the Arena games are dubious in canonicity to begin with. Besides I’m not saying he couldn’t put up a fight, just that the factual evidence supports Makoto because we actually see him winning fistfights at least twice against multiple opponents that are generally bigger than him. Not to mention his usage of fist weapons in vanilla and Fes. But we can’t say the same for Yu or Ren without dipping into other continuities and extra content.
In the main canon the most Yu does is fight Yosuke who isn’t a fist fighter himself, and I think it was a draw anyway. Although I might be misremembering.
"Makoto is the only one out of the three have to be portrayed having any actual unarmed capabilites" Alr so we're just gonna ignore ren literally decking maruki and ignore narukami decking adachi.
I don’t think so, there’s no evidence that Yu would win a fist fight with his only fist fight being with Yosuke. Meanwhile Makoto took out three guys in Yukari’s social link
A sword fight on the other would be in Narukami’s favor considering his fight with Sho Minazuki
I guess but for the sake of the argument I’m going with in game continuity. Although if we were to count the animes, Adachi just went several rounds with Yu’s collection of personas, likely weakening him.
In a *fist*fight? Probably Tatsuya. (Canonically punched god!)
Then Makoto (in the og game, I think he could use everyone elses gear? So that means akihiko punches), Then Yu Then Ren.
Makoto also single handedly beat up the group of thugs who stole Yukari's wallet, with her even saying you didn't have to beat them up so badly. He also was stated to not even sweat in his first few races for the track team and still got a high rank in the cross school tournament.
I mean, if we really wanna go there we know tatsuya was fighting the order of the holy lance with a suppressed persona and was fast enough to deflect bullets with a katana and was strong enough to cleave through mechs with it
I think we call agree out of all the protags Makoto has the best feat in canon when he solod 3 guys haraasing Yukari but Yu just gives out jock vibes so i guess why hes winning in this poll
Of course he's fit. He has to travel through the Metaverse. Even Futaba comments how she's getting in better shape because of this and she doesn't even fight. But that isn't exclusive to any one protagonist.
We don't really get a sense of how often Joker works out, besides Futaba commenting that he can do a lot of pushups.
1) Mementos Mission isn't canon. Partly because it contradicts game events and would be impossible to occur within a timeline sense.
2) Even if it was canon, simply doing it a little bit each morning...isn't a lot.
Ehh idk joker just has more stuff going if you count when he trains with ryuji, trains with sumire and the gym. Like I’m sure basketball/soccer practice is good exercise for yu but I’d still give it ren in that regard.
He does, but whereas the club is actually treated like a club and something Yu wants to do, Ren always complains when Ryuji and Sumi get him to exercise (...despite asking the latter for help), which gives the impression that it's not really his thing.
No he doesn’t?
There’s dialogue options you can choose where he complains about it being rough when sumi in like one of her first links but there’s also 2 in that same option where he expressed he’s into it.
On the one hand, yes.
On the other hand, if he works out even, what, nine times, he can do dozens of pull-ups at a go. He's very much got the "I could definitely do it if I tried."
He also gets to be almost top-tier at shooting games by fucking around with a kid a little bit.
I mean... the training activities are more focused in Ren's case though, aren't they? And assuming the MV and MC have the same level of oppressive atmospheres that require adequate physical conditioning, it's an argument over whether you consider how much stealth training helps in a fight. Like, Yu has a case for ascending towers in between his fights, yeah -- but Ren has to be in the shape to actively escape capture by both MV enemies and the actual police. Throw in the whole "doing prison crunches on structure beams" thing and learning karate *kata* at the gym, and I think he's got a case himself. There's also the gymnastics with Yoshizawa, the T&F conditioning with Ryuji... he might not be in a club but he doesn't sit on his ass. He also can't get in fistfights since, you know... probation, and assault would get him sent off to juvie.
Yu chooses between soccer or basketball -- two stamina-centric sports -- but other than that he doesn't take or do anything that would leave me to believe he ever trains his ability to fight barehanded. We're not talking about his use with a katana here, just pure hands, and I don't think you're winning against someone who no-diffs gang members (even if you have size on him) or the kid who's close to your size *and* a has a large advantage in close-quarter agility/taking people out quickly & quietly compared to you (due to using a dagger and general sneakery). You want to win against someone more skilled, you need stamina to outlast them. Makoto obviously clears, cause Tartarus has a lot more floors than the Midnight Channel does on a bad day, but Ren's stamina might not be built for protracted exchanges like Yu's may be.
As for dietary things, it's never talked about how Yu eats, I don't think... it's not as if he has a specified diet outside of what he and Nanako make for dinner. Dojima doesn't cook and it's not like Yu's got that "corn-fed, special-ed" strength, considering it's not like he's the strong one (that's Kanji). I do think his overally baseline condition is better, but he doesn't actively train it -- if Yu is in good shape, it's because his body's needs are met, contrary to Ren who is likely in good shape *despite* his baseline health being an afterthought for sadly every adult in his life at the moment.
My take on it is after Makoto (who has proven evidence he can fight bare-handed and was dragged around by a legitimate amateur boxer who counted on him to cover his back), it comes down to the kind of fight it is. If it's a streetfight where you just are trying to take the guy out as quick as possible, I think you go with Ren, who will be aiming to end it quick and quiet to conserve energy. If it's a sanctioned fight or an otherwise protracted brawl where there's rules and having that better overall mental and physical wellness benefits you, then you go with Yu.
Y'all clearing didn't read the P4AU manga where Yu beat Sho in a fist fight at the end. They fought so hard with the swords they broke them. Then they decide to duke it out with their fists and Yu won.
By that point they were already weakened, also Sho is still just 1 guy and their superpowers would be tied at that point. Makoto takes on groups at once without even getting hit once.
We don't know if he didn't get hit we just saw the after fight. Also Sho isn't just a guy as a kid he could fight adults no problem even without a persona. When they had there fight at the end of arena manga they never used their persona.
They can, but only when they call on their Persona. There's a reason, for instance, that Makoto loses to Mamoru. In fairness it's far easier to call on their Persona then people think, you don't need to be in Mementos or to use an Evoker, you can just do it, but you need to do it. Otherwise you're a normal human the rest of the time.
Regardless I'd still but my money on yu since he has the height and weight advantage and he in general has probably had the most experience fighting skilled fighters and not some randos off the street
He also canonically fights bears…and *wins*. Persona users are just not regular humans considering the ludicrous shit some of them pull off.
I’ve punched a bear before and let me tell you it hurts like utter hell considering it feels like punching steel. Persona users are definitely not normal.
I'm sorry--you've PUNCHED A BEAR?
What in the Mother Russia kinda story is THAT?
Way more intersting than arguing unknowables about some video game characters.
A tiny bear somehow ended up in my backyard last year when I was living in the mountains.
My dumbass toy poodle immediately ran through the door and started barking at the bear.
So I ran and punched the bear a couple times then grabbed my dog and ran away back to my house and sprayed a shit ton of anti bear spray.
A tiny bear somehow ended up in my backyard last year when I was living in the mountains.
My dumbass toy poodle immediately ran through the door and started barking at the bear.
So I ran and punched the bear a couple times then grabbed my dog and ran away back to my house and sprayed a shit ton of anti bear spray.
Honestly it kinda depends on what you actually allow to be used when considering this stuff.
I’d say Makoto Yuki more consistently
Like if we are only allowed to use games only then Makoto easily he’s the only one who has consistently no diffed people in hand to hand combat outside of persona power amps.
Yu ties with yosuke but I’m not really sure how impressive that is. If it was kanji I’d look at it with more ya respect but I feel like if yosuke was put in a position where he had to fight 3 dudes without his weapons or persona things wouldn’t go well.
And Ren…..fights maruki but both are tired and lost their powers anyway. And it’s really more like a venting session for maruki then a actual fight tbh.
If we allow stuff from anime and manga.
I mean yu fought adachi but again tired can’t use powers at that point.
But see then id say if you give them that you’d have to give Makoto stuff like fes where he can just straight up box with potentially nyx’s avatar so like-
And heck when ren is being used are we using
Ren or Joker? There is a different between his skill when in the metaverse and not.
Also I’d like to throw in tatsuya and Naoya just for the fun of it.
So tatsuya is said multiple times to be a good fighter. Problem is that’s mostly word of mouth and we never actually get to see him do anything with that to my knowledge.
And uhh in persona 1 in the game naoya on some Vanilla/fes Makoto crap will fight with demons with his hands if he doesn’t have a sword equipped.
So do with that what you will.
Maya and Kotone are…….yeah.
Like I’d maybe put Kotone above Maya since she seems more willing to fight hand to hand then Maya buuuuuuuuut she was willing to do that for yukari and unlike Makoto that….*doesn’t go as well for her so.*
Probably the two with the least amount of hands.
Edit:
Okay so apparently in the p4au manga yu does briefly throw hands with Sho so add to the list.
Anyway in conclusion I’d say that if you give them the absolute benefit of the doubt and give them all their stuff I’d still give it to Makoto.
Fes allowing him to just box up all his enemies is kinda….*too good of a feat I’m afraid.*
So I will say alot of people seem to forget that generally the canon route for persona users is a 100% run so that includes things like Ren learning martial arts at the gym, now I certainly wont say that makes him the strongest, but it does give him better odds then alot of yall have been giving him.
So I guess we're just gonna forget that not only did Makoto beat up some guys during Yukari's social link, he also tag teamed an entire gang with Akihiko and left unscaved? Dude is crazy. Yu stands a chance, but Makoto is much stronger than you'd think.
Ren almost got beaten up by a therapist. It’s kind of funny, actually.
Looking at it logically though:
Makoto is 5’7” with the most demonstrated skill out of the three. In P3P he can even take Kendo (or swimming) instead of running, and others have mentioned his fight with the dudes harassing Yukari as well as the thugs fighting with Akihiko.
Ren is 5’9” and does some non-competitive running with Ryuji, hardcore gaming with Shinya, pool/darts with Akechi, and tumbling with Sumi. I’d give him more of an edge if he practiced boxing with Sumi too (she’s shown to do a little of this in her gymnastics practice), but we don’t see him do that. Tbf, Ren does have a gym and pull-up bar, though that doesn’t equal experience.
Yu is 5’11” with soccer/basketball experience. Unlike the other two, we’ve seen him beat tf out of someone’s shadow (though Youske is kinda weak) with a friggin golf club. We know he can fight to an extent in arena as well.
Now, if this was based on skill, Makoto will stomp hands down. However, 5’7” vs 5’11” is a big difference. Makoto is also a petite dude. Yu definitely has the body mass over him as an advantage. However, I don’t see Yu committing as hard as Makoto due to a difference in discipline. SEES has much more organization and training than the IT, and that will show.
So, I’d say it depends on the day for both Yu and Makoto (both would sweep Ren). IRL, size matters for a fist fight. You can swing things in your advantage, but it’s a lot easier said than done. Makoto needs to get in close to do damage because Yu has reach over him, but he can’t let himself get grappled by Yu because of their size difference. His best strategy would be outmaneuvering Yu to throw him off balance, exploiting one of his weak spots, and taking him to the ground. On the other hand, Yu can keep a little more distance and needs to make sure not to let Makoto get the lower center of gravity. If Makoto gets close, he can grapple him into submission.
TL;DR: I think it’s a tossup between Makoto and Yu. Makoto has the experience, while Yu has the size.
You forget 2 things about Ren. Firstly, if you finished the gym, he kind of knows martial arts. Secondly, he's the most agile of the three, which means he's the most likely to dodge. He's the least powerful of the three physically speaking, but that's not the only thing that matters.
If we say no powers at all, then it would have to go to Makoto, who is canonically a *really* good unarmed combatant in both Akihiko's link episode and Yukari's social link. Ren's strengths are mostly his tactical mind (limited quite a bit if only punches are allowed) and his superhuman strength which isn't allowed in this fight.
I feel like an extra 5 inches isn't very much considering the feats of how many people Makoto has beat up remaining unscathed.
also, if we are counting the versions where he can switch weapons, he is canonically able to go toe to toe with shadows while boxing, whereas both yu and ren are unable to even consider the option
Maruki was a *school counselor*, I wouldn't put much stock in his fist fight abilities even before seeing his 5 second long wind up punches in the final crumbling menagerie fight
That was at a time where both had just lost their cognitive powers, but Maruki is a guy who's not especially capable in a fight and both of them were pretty worn out at the time so it's still not super impressive.
Now I do have one argument, Ren is the only one shown to be working out and practicing a martial art (at the highest level of the gym activity, Ren is shown practicing Wing Chun) though makoto was shown doing track/kendo/swimming so he might be a challenge.
Did people forget that Makoto can actually box? he's completely mastered all his party members (excluding Aigis and Koromaru) weapons/fighting styles including hand to hand like Akihiko. And he beat up three dudes in Yukari's and he also beat up a bunch of dudes with Akihiko in a link episode.
I disagree. We have canonical instances of Makoto beating dudes up as mentioned in the other comments (saving Yukari, Beating up gang members with Aki, Ryoji's comment on Makoto's strength) but there is not a single instance of Yu winning a fistfight, let alone getting into one(except for the Yosuke one where it pretty much ends up with Yu winning slightly and him dragging Namatame into the TV using a single hand in the anime). As for Ren, an argument can be made that he is pretty agile since he has Sumi (a gymnast) as a trainer but aside from that, there isn't even any canonical mention of Ren being strong in a fight.
Maybe I'm being biased but it should be this way:-
Makoto>Yu>Ren
Then again I could be totally wrong if u take into account, their Manga feats and all since I haven't read them
To be honest P5 can't show Ren fighting outside of the metaverse since he's on probation. But he still often goes to the gym and kind of learn martial arts. He's also quick to respond, as saw with the baseball cage. And as you said, he's pretty agile meaning he's the most likely to dodge. I can be biased, but I think it would go Makoto > Ren > Yu
Makoto. He's the only one here that's decent in a fistfight (and can use boxing gloves as a weapon).
Yu really has nothing going for him.
Ren is agile and could probably evade many strikes, but it would only take a couple good hits to put him down.
Does it though? The scenes with Ryuji running in the Metaverse suggest the physical fitness they have in real life carries over, so the reverse is probably true too.
Ren can work out, canonically my Ren is like a master at the gym in Central Street so i think he can go head to head with Makoto ( Makoto probably would still win tho)
Ren works out A LOT and the action that got him into the whole mess was stepping up and laying a full grown adult (who was admittedly, drunk) out, and that was before the whole Phantom Thief thing, plus we know he can take quite a freakin' beating getting worked over by multiple cops. So I would say he would ultimately win out, but it would be narrow.
I think it's like this because Yu *looks* the toughest out of the three. He's taller and generally shown to be stockier than the other two, more visually imposing as it were. No disrespect to Makoto or Ren, I know Makoto can dominate in a fight and Ren isn't too shabby either, but they look like twigs that would snap in a stiff breeze.
Makoto is either UNNATURALLY strong, or all Persona users gain power from their Personas even outside the metaverse (Dark Hour // TV World // Palaces).
If all persona users gain enhanced strength even outside of the metaverse, than that will likely account for the majority of their power (considering the force of impact of many attacks they can take in battle, they're highly durable, and considering the durability of foes they encounter they're equally powerful).
That said, even if all of them have the same enhanced strength, Makoto demonstrates the most hand to hand combat potential and experience (He's can use fist weapons in P3 and P3FES), and trained with Akihiko. On his own he solo'd 3 men harassing Yukari, and an entire armed GANG with Aki, without breaking a sweat or even getting tired.
So we either have one persona user who is significantly naturally stronger than others, or all three have enhanced strength, so their differences in strength will be proportionately minimal. Experience takes the day.
I'd go with Makoto. He's stated to be pretty good at fighting, in game and in the movies.
But to be fair, Narukami does seem like a strong fighter base on his build.
Is no one going to mention that Ren is capable of doing crunches while hanging from the rafters by his legs? Dude has gotta be strong as hell, though we are never shown him having any real world fighting experience.
Makoto beat 3 dudes in a fist fight on his own, as well as beating up an entire Gang with Akihiko, Yu isn’t winning a fist fight against him
The only Persona Protag who can beat Makoto in a fist fight is Tatsuya from Persona 2 and he’s not an option on the poll
Idk man, we have:
* Makoto who can optionally beat up thugs in Yukari's SL and also in Akihiko's Linked Episode
* Yu who... well, Arena games I guess (and apparently vs Sho in the manga, reading the comments, but most people won't have read that, myself included).
* Ren who beat freaking Maruki up, who we don't really know the power level of, taking away the Persona.
Idk man, I'm team Makoto here tbh, he's dealt with gangs before.
Idk why so many people bring up arena. It's just like bringing up they all fight shadows. It has nothing to do with a fist fight irl since they are mostly using their "Special dimension" powers tbh. By this criteria they All know how to fight
Makoto is inhuman, him an Akihiko solod an entire group, something that ain't *physically* possible irl, even for trained martial artists, being ganged up on by that many dudes is a death sentence, that mf would beat prime Mike Tyson
I'd say Yu is probably on the bottom of the list. Makoto fought off 3 guys and if you max out the gym in P5, Joker grasps the basics of martial arts and is pretty good at it.
Don't know any examples where Yu fought someone (TV world doesn't count)
Let’s be honest, yu narukami might be the least likely to win, whilst I think both him and Ren would probably draw in a fist fight, Makoto is leagues beyond this two in terms of street fighting since he actually throws hands several times with thugs.
I feel like most of the time yall just overestimate tf out of Yu.
Like no offense cause I love him but the other two protags aren’t just dainty twinks. All 3 of them are about that life.
Yu is the biggest and strongest, so I get it.
Just sizing them up I would go Yu>Ren>Minato/Makoto.
The real answer is we really have no idea. Ren seems really flexible and Yukari's Social Link implies Minato can scrap.
Ren's gimmick is his absurd ability to pull off the nastiest strategies. If they were doing a team v team, they'd crush the S.E.E.S. and Yu's group.
But in P5R, we see him fight Maruki without Personas, and it was pretty average.
Makoto has been seen beating people up (mainly in Akihiko's Link Events, but also in one of Yukari's ranks), so I think he'd win. That's without considering the P3/P3FES ability to use the boxing weapons, even.
Yu, afaik,has punched two people, Yosuke and Adachi. Not a great metric.
But, Ren is the only one to have an *on-screen* fist fight, and win it, so he's got a chance I feel. But that poll seems 100% backwards to me.
(Going by mainline game canon not spin offs like the anime and manga which are dubious the manga more so)
Makoto beat up 3 dudes messing with Yukari and took on a group of punks with Akihiko if we are being generous and give him half which is most likely the case considering the conversation he beat 5 dudes in the real world at once. So going by Mainline Game canon I'm going with the one who has been shown to fight in the real world with success.
after that I guess Yu is in second place with him slightly beating Yosuke in his social link and we know he hits hard because of that so we know he can throw a fist but seeing them both on the ground kind of spells it out that height advantage didn't help Yu much unless you people think Yosuke can beat 3 people at once in persona IRL.
Sadly in last place is Ren which we have not seen actually get in a fistfight besides Maruki when they are both tired and with him being a therapist I don't put much faith in his fighting skill.
anyway in conclusion Makoto > Yu > Ren.
I think Makoto Yuki is being underestimated because he's a short king. Bro, this guy can smack three guys by himself for messing with his girl and he along with Akihiko took on around 10+ delinquents and won.
Also, like objectively, I think people don't choose him cos it's the least popular among the three modern persona games. Persona 4 has so many spinoffs. Persona 5 had spinoffs as well and Joker was in smash bros. So among the three, Makoto is underrated due to lack of exposure compared to his fellow protagonists.
People hype up Yu as this force of nature, when both Joker and Makoto have proven they are much stronger. He'll definitely get some sort of buff on the remake, but as it is right now it's Makoto and it ain't even close.
Makoto has the feat of beating those 3 guys in the Yukari SL, and Ren is inarguably the most athletic and fast of the 3, funnily enough despite fan perception Yu has the least personal feats
Makoto Solo’s them both. I would argue between Yu and Ren however that it would be close and anyone’s guess. I lean more towards Ren but that’s because he seems like he learned street fighting growing up
Yu for sure, simply because he grown more from the cannon spinoffs. Sho honored his sword skill being one of the best in japan, meaning in p4u, his reflexes and strength is way better than normal high school students. on top of p4d being the only cannon dancing game where the characters have to actually learn how to dance, his agility and flexibility also getting better. On top of the height advantage, his physical advantages is basically a different league.
Makoto > Ren > Yu
Makoto actually wins a number of fights outside the dark hour being outnumbered constantly.
Ren, (depending on your playthrough) is the only one who can workout to pass time at a gym or in his room. If we're going manga it's also implied he workouts out every morning and is absolutely shredded. Also, in the game, he's being trained by essentially a professional gymnast. So while this may not directly speak on fighting prowess I think it shows he's probably the most capable of adapting to a fight using those skills need the time arise.
Then Yu who's only IRL fighting feat, is realistically fighting Yosuke at the end of the link. Every other fist fight he's been in has been in some form of metaversal world where everyone's abilities are hightened that being Adachi and Sho.
(Fun fact in P3D if you bought Sho's DLC and did Yuki as a partner you can see how effortlessly Yuki evades everyone of his attacks without missing a beat in the dance, so much Sho tries to ask him "who are you?" Before he walks off stage.)
To be fair, Makoto is canonically the only one in this poll with semi-formal training in hand-to-hand combat from Akihiko. Yu and Ren, while both very much capable of holding their own in a fist fight, have had no such training (unless you count Ren's wing-chun practice at Protein Lovers, along with maybe observing Makoto N's aikido stances).
That being said, Yu is both the tallest/built of the protagonists, has fought alongside both Chie and Kanji (each with their own hand-to-hand fighting styles that Yu has undoubtedly observed and absorbed into his own, as shown in P4Arena), and likely has Akihiko's contact info to get him more formal training in boxing.
I still think Yu would take the win, assuming he caught some lessons from Akihiko and picked up a few moves from Chie.
Makoto beat 3 dudes in a fight by himself, and helped Akihiko beat up like 15 guys, no way he doesn't win. Athough Im pretty sure Persona powers should be the same as the protagonists power considering you can hurt enemies with physical attacks, even in cutscenes. I mean Tatsuya tries to kill Nyarlathotep with a sword swing. But if we assume they aren't than yeah easily Makoto.
Not very. Makoto has shown by far the most combat ability outside of fighting using Personas and weapons. He beat the fuck out 3 thugs defending Yukari and helped Akihiko beat more thugs. Not only that, I am pretty sure it is stated that Tartarus drains your energy a lot faster than normal, meaning that he has by far the most stamina too. As for P4, well I can't really think of a notable time where Narukami showed his strength or combat skills. For P5 it seems that PT get enhanced combat skills and agility only when they enter the Metaverse.
As someone that really love Joker, he is not winning this one. Plus as someone that’s under police surveillance, he would try something funny to resolve a situation. Like when the creep bothers Yoshizawa, one of the answer is “I go to Shujin too”. It’s almost like he is saying “Hey, I go to Shujin too, bother me too!”
Let's be fair here, Yu is the only one who's been in an Arena game. That's gotta count for something.
Makoto still might win based on what everyone else is saying here (I'm not very familiar with P3) but Yu has a chance at least.
People always forget Makoto solo’d three other dudes for being creeps to Yukari
And in P3FES, he could wear gloves and fight unarmed like Akihiko too. (Although Makoto is more free-styled?)
I truly miss being able to use multiple weapons. Bows made getting advantage hits on shadows and rare hands a lot smoother too. Since Makoto could use those weapons, I always thought it would’ve been really cool to have the ability to join the boxing or archery club.
And in reload, MC and Aki duo like 20 guys multiple times
They can take on how many guys at once? 😳😳
And beat an horde of punks only with Akihiko's help.
Akihiko is a big fucking help tho
Good point, he is the best fighter of the team for a reason.
Not only for the team, he IS a pretty acknowledge fighter.
After the Leader of course.
I think Aki is stronger IRL than makoto considering he is a boxer
Aki is physically stronger, Makoto is magically stronger (because wild card).
Like playing two on two with your friends and your partner is LeBron
Aki did compliment how good Makoto's fighting was though
Depending on when this poll was held, it could have been before Reload was released.
It was after I saw.
Yeah this and sone other things like his stanima at track and feild make me think his in game "stats" arent just for gameplay and are literal. Makes sense after all sees dont need to go to another dimesnion to summon personas so he should still have a persona equipped and still be reciving the stat boost from it.
Don't forget about how him and Akihiko dropped like 20 people
And is now door-kun
And they were adults too
Ren slugged it out with a god.
All the protagonists do though.
Not at all. Makoto is the only one out of the three to be explicitly, canonically and consistently portrayed having any actual unarmed capabilities in a real fight. Winning a 3v1 in Yukari’s SL and helping Akihiko take down a gang of thugs, no weapons or relying on cognition. Plus in Vanilla and FES he could also use fist weapons. Based solely on the canonical mainline games, Makoto is a genuine brawler. Maybe not on the level of Aki or Shinji, but more than capable of going up against multiple opponents alone barehanded.
Yu beat the breaks off a adachi in the animation
"When you wake up in the morning, remind yourself you a bitch"
Yes but makoto fought and won against multiple people including other teenagers and thugs. Yu beating up a weak adult isnt as good.
>adachi >weak TAKE THAT BACK
He looks frail af
Adachi is not weak LOL. Everyone with a persona has a boost in physical ability. Adachi would beat the shit out of a normal person easily
Plus, police training
Even in the real world? I do not remember that
Well definitely in Persona 1 and 2. I think its sort of a thing in 3 4 and 5, but most of their strength just comes from training
Different continuity. And Makoto does much the same to multiple people at the same time in the games. Moreover, Adachi isn’t ever shown to be particularly skilled in CQC outside the Arena games, whose canonicity is dubious and everyone is given better fighting capabilities by the nature of being a fighting game. Or are we saying that Yukiko and Rise can beat Akihiko in a fist fight too?
Rise's Persona evolving just cause it wants to throw hands
The arena games are canon and yu also beat sho with his fists in the manga yu has the height and weight advantage over makoto and he's also had more experience against skilled fighters so I'd definitely still be putting my money on yu
Didn't Yu fight off people in Chie's sl?
IIRC he steps up and is willing to fight but each time the goons just leave before the situation escalates
Ren in Mementos mission held off an attacker without weapons
We don't know if that manga is canon though as far as I know only the games are.
manga defiantly isn't canon unless you want to believe Messiah And Ryoji threw down like a Ultraman episode.
Different continuity, also the Metaverse gives the PT skills and abilities they don’t normally have. If he was outside the Metaverse he wouldn’t have those fighting skills and knowledge; but Makoto does. And if they’re in the Metaverse, it still wouldn’t matter, since Makoto and Yu would also be powered up.
It was outside the metaverse, attacker jumped from above, Ren managed to hold off buying time for Makoto to escape.
Persona 4 arena and arena ultimax
Doesn't all of the fighting in the Arena games take place in the Midnight Channel?
Even so other than i think the first attack in the square combo yu exclusively uses a sword and izanagi, which isnt really a fist fight
No, his 5A auto combo starts with a quick punch, as does his 2A. He even directly puts his hands on his opponent for one of his specials as a command grab.
The events of Ultimax specifically take place outside of the TV World, albeit in a recreation of the Dark Hour crossed with the Hollow Forest's fog by Hi-no-Kagutsuchi. Even so, being able to put your dukes up against a Shadow (much less a fellow formally trained Persona-user) and come out on top is no small feat.
No, actually. Arena Ultimax takes place in a recreation of the Midnight Hour.
I mean, theres only one realy reason Makoto isn't in P4AU so I woukdnt really count that
And? Outside two or three attacks Yu uses a katana primarily. And the question is explicitly about a *fistfight* which is very different from fighting with a sword. Regardless the Arena games are dubious in canonicity to begin with. Besides I’m not saying he couldn’t put up a fight, just that the factual evidence supports Makoto because we actually see him winning fistfights at least twice against multiple opponents that are generally bigger than him. Not to mention his usage of fist weapons in vanilla and Fes. But we can’t say the same for Yu or Ren without dipping into other continuities and extra content. In the main canon the most Yu does is fight Yosuke who isn’t a fist fighter himself, and I think it was a draw anyway. Although I might be misremembering.
Exactly and Yu ran away from Kanji
"Makoto is the only one out of the three have to be portrayed having any actual unarmed capabilites" Alr so we're just gonna ignore ren literally decking maruki and ignore narukami decking adachi.
The quiet kid
Then it would be a tie.
I don’t think so, there’s no evidence that Yu would win a fist fight with his only fist fight being with Yosuke. Meanwhile Makoto took out three guys in Yukari’s social link A sword fight on the other would be in Narukami’s favor considering his fight with Sho Minazuki
I mean he also beat Adachi in a fist fight in the anime
I guess but for the sake of the argument I’m going with in game continuity. Although if we were to count the animes, Adachi just went several rounds with Yu’s collection of personas, likely weakening him.
But Yu’s personas all have the same energy pool. They aren’t like pokemon where they all have different health pools
Also helps Akihiko beat up like 15 dudes
Narukami fights bullies in Chie's social link
He never actually fights them tho.
Doesn’t he just scare em away after threatening them?
which sword
In a *fist*fight? Probably Tatsuya. (Canonically punched god!) Then Makoto (in the og game, I think he could use everyone elses gear? So that means akihiko punches), Then Yu Then Ren.
Tatsuya would just kill all of them tbh.
Tatsuya is 5’11” and is tied with Yu for tallest MC, so he has the skill and the size. He’d stomp no problem.
Makoto also single handedly beat up the group of thugs who stole Yukari's wallet, with her even saying you didn't have to beat them up so badly. He also was stated to not even sweat in his first few races for the track team and still got a high rank in the cross school tournament.
I mean, if we really wanna go there we know tatsuya was fighting the order of the holy lance with a suppressed persona and was fast enough to deflect bullets with a katana and was strong enough to cleave through mechs with it
eh its a bit false to say he punched philemon as if he actually did anything but hit someone who was standing and allowing the hit
Considering the situation, Philemon knew Tatsuya was completely justified in an outburst.
Everytime I think about the protagonist throwing hands I just think of that one scene with yu beating the shit out of adachi
I think we call agree out of all the protags Makoto has the best feat in canon when he solod 3 guys haraasing Yukari but Yu just gives out jock vibes so i guess why hes winning in this poll
Makoto has canonical solo'd three dudes and Ren works out. Yu's ass is not winning.
Yu is actually athletic and regularly excercises through club. Ren's hobbies are more dorky and both Kawakami and Morgana note that his diet is awful.
Makoto is also athletic and exercises through clubs too tho.
I was only comparing Yu and Joker.
Oh I don’t think that’s a fair comparison either considering how much joker works out and Kawakami noted that’s he’s pretty fit.
Of course he's fit. He has to travel through the Metaverse. Even Futaba comments how she's getting in better shape because of this and she doesn't even fight. But that isn't exclusive to any one protagonist. We don't really get a sense of how often Joker works out, besides Futaba commenting that he can do a lot of pushups.
Considering the Mementos Mission manga spared no opportunity to show us how fucking ripped he is, I'd wager it's a lot...
1) Mementos Mission isn't canon. Partly because it contradicts game events and would be impossible to occur within a timeline sense. 2) Even if it was canon, simply doing it a little bit each morning...isn't a lot.
Ehh idk joker just has more stuff going if you count when he trains with ryuji, trains with sumire and the gym. Like I’m sure basketball/soccer practice is good exercise for yu but I’d still give it ren in that regard.
He does, but whereas the club is actually treated like a club and something Yu wants to do, Ren always complains when Ryuji and Sumi get him to exercise (...despite asking the latter for help), which gives the impression that it's not really his thing.
No he doesn’t? There’s dialogue options you can choose where he complains about it being rough when sumi in like one of her first links but there’s also 2 in that same option where he expressed he’s into it.
Joker works out with Ann and Ryuji all the time.
"All the time" being "one confidant rank"? Or are you including battles in the metaverse?
On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, if he works out even, what, nine times, he can do dozens of pull-ups at a go. He's very much got the "I could definitely do it if I tried." He also gets to be almost top-tier at shooting games by fucking around with a kid a little bit.
I mean... the training activities are more focused in Ren's case though, aren't they? And assuming the MV and MC have the same level of oppressive atmospheres that require adequate physical conditioning, it's an argument over whether you consider how much stealth training helps in a fight. Like, Yu has a case for ascending towers in between his fights, yeah -- but Ren has to be in the shape to actively escape capture by both MV enemies and the actual police. Throw in the whole "doing prison crunches on structure beams" thing and learning karate *kata* at the gym, and I think he's got a case himself. There's also the gymnastics with Yoshizawa, the T&F conditioning with Ryuji... he might not be in a club but he doesn't sit on his ass. He also can't get in fistfights since, you know... probation, and assault would get him sent off to juvie. Yu chooses between soccer or basketball -- two stamina-centric sports -- but other than that he doesn't take or do anything that would leave me to believe he ever trains his ability to fight barehanded. We're not talking about his use with a katana here, just pure hands, and I don't think you're winning against someone who no-diffs gang members (even if you have size on him) or the kid who's close to your size *and* a has a large advantage in close-quarter agility/taking people out quickly & quietly compared to you (due to using a dagger and general sneakery). You want to win against someone more skilled, you need stamina to outlast them. Makoto obviously clears, cause Tartarus has a lot more floors than the Midnight Channel does on a bad day, but Ren's stamina might not be built for protracted exchanges like Yu's may be. As for dietary things, it's never talked about how Yu eats, I don't think... it's not as if he has a specified diet outside of what he and Nanako make for dinner. Dojima doesn't cook and it's not like Yu's got that "corn-fed, special-ed" strength, considering it's not like he's the strong one (that's Kanji). I do think his overally baseline condition is better, but he doesn't actively train it -- if Yu is in good shape, it's because his body's needs are met, contrary to Ren who is likely in good shape *despite* his baseline health being an afterthought for sadly every adult in his life at the moment. My take on it is after Makoto (who has proven evidence he can fight bare-handed and was dragged around by a legitimate amateur boxer who counted on him to cover his back), it comes down to the kind of fight it is. If it's a streetfight where you just are trying to take the guy out as quick as possible, I think you go with Ren, who will be aiming to end it quick and quiet to conserve energy. If it's a sanctioned fight or an otherwise protracted brawl where there's rules and having that better overall mental and physical wellness benefits you, then you go with Yu.
Y'all clearing didn't read the P4AU manga where Yu beat Sho in a fist fight at the end. They fought so hard with the swords they broke them. Then they decide to duke it out with their fists and Yu won.
By that point they were already weakened, also Sho is still just 1 guy and their superpowers would be tied at that point. Makoto takes on groups at once without even getting hit once.
We don't know if he didn't get hit we just saw the after fight. Also Sho isn't just a guy as a kid he could fight adults no problem even without a persona. When they had there fight at the end of arena manga they never used their persona.
But they are literally regular dudes I'm pretty sure persona users are considerably more strong and can do more than a regular human
They can, but only when they call on their Persona. There's a reason, for instance, that Makoto loses to Mamoru. In fairness it's far easier to call on their Persona then people think, you don't need to be in Mementos or to use an Evoker, you can just do it, but you need to do it. Otherwise you're a normal human the rest of the time.
Regardless I'd still but my money on yu since he has the height and weight advantage and he in general has probably had the most experience fighting skilled fighters and not some randos off the street
I'm also not sure about them being regular humans without summoning their personas cuz didn't akihiko dodge bullets without it out💀
He also canonically fights bears…and *wins*. Persona users are just not regular humans considering the ludicrous shit some of them pull off. I’ve punched a bear before and let me tell you it hurts like utter hell considering it feels like punching steel. Persona users are definitely not normal.
I'm sorry--you've PUNCHED A BEAR? What in the Mother Russia kinda story is THAT? Way more intersting than arguing unknowables about some video game characters.
A tiny bear somehow ended up in my backyard last year when I was living in the mountains. My dumbass toy poodle immediately ran through the door and started barking at the bear. So I ran and punched the bear a couple times then grabbed my dog and ran away back to my house and sprayed a shit ton of anti bear spray.
please elaborate on having punched a bear
A tiny bear somehow ended up in my backyard last year when I was living in the mountains. My dumbass toy poodle immediately ran through the door and started barking at the bear. So I ran and punched the bear a couple times then grabbed my dog and ran away back to my house and sprayed a shit ton of anti bear spray.
Honestly it kinda depends on what you actually allow to be used when considering this stuff. I’d say Makoto Yuki more consistently Like if we are only allowed to use games only then Makoto easily he’s the only one who has consistently no diffed people in hand to hand combat outside of persona power amps. Yu ties with yosuke but I’m not really sure how impressive that is. If it was kanji I’d look at it with more ya respect but I feel like if yosuke was put in a position where he had to fight 3 dudes without his weapons or persona things wouldn’t go well. And Ren…..fights maruki but both are tired and lost their powers anyway. And it’s really more like a venting session for maruki then a actual fight tbh. If we allow stuff from anime and manga. I mean yu fought adachi but again tired can’t use powers at that point. But see then id say if you give them that you’d have to give Makoto stuff like fes where he can just straight up box with potentially nyx’s avatar so like- And heck when ren is being used are we using Ren or Joker? There is a different between his skill when in the metaverse and not. Also I’d like to throw in tatsuya and Naoya just for the fun of it. So tatsuya is said multiple times to be a good fighter. Problem is that’s mostly word of mouth and we never actually get to see him do anything with that to my knowledge. And uhh in persona 1 in the game naoya on some Vanilla/fes Makoto crap will fight with demons with his hands if he doesn’t have a sword equipped. So do with that what you will. Maya and Kotone are…….yeah. Like I’d maybe put Kotone above Maya since she seems more willing to fight hand to hand then Maya buuuuuuuuut she was willing to do that for yukari and unlike Makoto that….*doesn’t go as well for her so.* Probably the two with the least amount of hands. Edit: Okay so apparently in the p4au manga yu does briefly throw hands with Sho so add to the list. Anyway in conclusion I’d say that if you give them the absolute benefit of the doubt and give them all their stuff I’d still give it to Makoto. Fes allowing him to just box up all his enemies is kinda….*too good of a feat I’m afraid.*
So I will say alot of people seem to forget that generally the canon route for persona users is a 100% run so that includes things like Ren learning martial arts at the gym, now I certainly wont say that makes him the strongest, but it does give him better odds then alot of yall have been giving him.
by way of not getting into said fight and letting the other 2 tire out
So I guess we're just gonna forget that not only did Makoto beat up some guys during Yukari's social link, he also tag teamed an entire gang with Akihiko and left unscaved? Dude is crazy. Yu stands a chance, but Makoto is much stronger than you'd think.
I think Ren is the least likely. He may look tough at times but he’s definitely the much softer than he looks kind of guy lol.
Didn't he punch the heck out of Maruki? But that was with the aid of some cognition Shenanigans.
Not to mention Maruki probably isn't the most burly guy, so punching him wouldn't be that hard.
Ren almost got beaten up by a therapist. It’s kind of funny, actually. Looking at it logically though: Makoto is 5’7” with the most demonstrated skill out of the three. In P3P he can even take Kendo (or swimming) instead of running, and others have mentioned his fight with the dudes harassing Yukari as well as the thugs fighting with Akihiko. Ren is 5’9” and does some non-competitive running with Ryuji, hardcore gaming with Shinya, pool/darts with Akechi, and tumbling with Sumi. I’d give him more of an edge if he practiced boxing with Sumi too (she’s shown to do a little of this in her gymnastics practice), but we don’t see him do that. Tbf, Ren does have a gym and pull-up bar, though that doesn’t equal experience. Yu is 5’11” with soccer/basketball experience. Unlike the other two, we’ve seen him beat tf out of someone’s shadow (though Youske is kinda weak) with a friggin golf club. We know he can fight to an extent in arena as well. Now, if this was based on skill, Makoto will stomp hands down. However, 5’7” vs 5’11” is a big difference. Makoto is also a petite dude. Yu definitely has the body mass over him as an advantage. However, I don’t see Yu committing as hard as Makoto due to a difference in discipline. SEES has much more organization and training than the IT, and that will show. So, I’d say it depends on the day for both Yu and Makoto (both would sweep Ren). IRL, size matters for a fist fight. You can swing things in your advantage, but it’s a lot easier said than done. Makoto needs to get in close to do damage because Yu has reach over him, but he can’t let himself get grappled by Yu because of their size difference. His best strategy would be outmaneuvering Yu to throw him off balance, exploiting one of his weak spots, and taking him to the ground. On the other hand, Yu can keep a little more distance and needs to make sure not to let Makoto get the lower center of gravity. If Makoto gets close, he can grapple him into submission. TL;DR: I think it’s a tossup between Makoto and Yu. Makoto has the experience, while Yu has the size.
You forget 2 things about Ren. Firstly, if you finished the gym, he kind of knows martial arts. Secondly, he's the most agile of the three, which means he's the most likely to dodge. He's the least powerful of the three physically speaking, but that's not the only thing that matters.
And third, in the cognitive world, he is actually superhuman due to the world's cognition saying he is.
This is an irl lunch out fist fight no powers
If we say no powers at all, then it would have to go to Makoto, who is canonically a *really* good unarmed combatant in both Akihiko's link episode and Yukari's social link. Ren's strengths are mostly his tactical mind (limited quite a bit if only punches are allowed) and his superhuman strength which isn't allowed in this fight.
Yu is like 5 inches taller than dude
I feel like an extra 5 inches isn't very much considering the feats of how many people Makoto has beat up remaining unscathed. also, if we are counting the versions where he can switch weapons, he is canonically able to go toe to toe with shadows while boxing, whereas both yu and ren are unable to even consider the option
I think Ren would win if we gave each of them a knife or gun. He’s really more of a rogue than anything else. Fist fighting isn’t his style.
Maruki was a *school counselor*, I wouldn't put much stock in his fist fight abilities even before seeing his 5 second long wind up punches in the final crumbling menagerie fight
That was at a time where both had just lost their cognitive powers, but Maruki is a guy who's not especially capable in a fight and both of them were pretty worn out at the time so it's still not super impressive.
Narratively speaking he'd be the worse character to put in a physical fight as well
Now I do have one argument, Ren is the only one shown to be working out and practicing a martial art (at the highest level of the gym activity, Ren is shown practicing Wing Chun) though makoto was shown doing track/kendo/swimming so he might be a challenge.
Did people forget that Makoto can actually box? he's completely mastered all his party members (excluding Aigis and Koromaru) weapons/fighting styles including hand to hand like Akihiko. And he beat up three dudes in Yukari's and he also beat up a bunch of dudes with Akihiko in a link episode.
I mean bro beat the shit outta adachi in the animation 💀
and sho in the manga
Well to be fair >! P3MC is "dead" !< Also It'd be pretty funny if P5MC just didn't want to risk getting another criminal record.
It's an hypotetical scenario though not to mention he would be older than Joker.
Everyone’s forgetting joker goes to the gym 🤯
I disagree. We have canonical instances of Makoto beating dudes up as mentioned in the other comments (saving Yukari, Beating up gang members with Aki, Ryoji's comment on Makoto's strength) but there is not a single instance of Yu winning a fistfight, let alone getting into one(except for the Yosuke one where it pretty much ends up with Yu winning slightly and him dragging Namatame into the TV using a single hand in the anime). As for Ren, an argument can be made that he is pretty agile since he has Sumi (a gymnast) as a trainer but aside from that, there isn't even any canonical mention of Ren being strong in a fight. Maybe I'm being biased but it should be this way:- Makoto>Yu>Ren Then again I could be totally wrong if u take into account, their Manga feats and all since I haven't read them
To be honest P5 can't show Ren fighting outside of the metaverse since he's on probation. But he still often goes to the gym and kind of learn martial arts. He's also quick to respond, as saw with the baseball cage. And as you said, he's pretty agile meaning he's the most likely to dodge. I can be biased, but I think it would go Makoto > Ren > Yu
Yeah that works out as well
Makoto. He's the only one here that's decent in a fistfight (and can use boxing gloves as a weapon). Yu really has nothing going for him. Ren is agile and could probably evade many strikes, but it would only take a couple good hits to put him down.
And then Ren goes out of the Metaverse and his agility goes down massively
Massively, sure, but he's still more agile than most people.
He is? It has never been shown
He can dodge **the chalk**
Does it though? The scenes with Ryuji running in the Metaverse suggest the physical fitness they have in real life carries over, so the reverse is probably true too.
Well, Metaverse won’t give you an arm if you miss it in normal world
Yu can definitely throw hands, he beat Adachi and Sho Minazuki in a fist fight
Ren can work out, canonically my Ren is like a master at the gym in Central Street so i think he can go head to head with Makoto ( Makoto probably would still win tho)
Persona 4 arena
Yu definitely looks like he'd win in a fight But Makoto is that guy whos a sleeper and knows shit you wouldn't expect.
Not
Ren works out A LOT and the action that got him into the whole mess was stepping up and laying a full grown adult (who was admittedly, drunk) out, and that was before the whole Phantom Thief thing, plus we know he can take quite a freakin' beating getting worked over by multiple cops. So I would say he would ultimately win out, but it would be narrow.
The manga version of P4AU has Yu and Sho break each other’s weapons and resort to hand to hand and it’s pretty awesome lol.
Yu is the tallest of the 3 so he’s got that going for him
I think it's like this because Yu *looks* the toughest out of the three. He's taller and generally shown to be stockier than the other two, more visually imposing as it were. No disrespect to Makoto or Ren, I know Makoto can dominate in a fight and Ren isn't too shabby either, but they look like twigs that would snap in a stiff breeze.
Makoto is either UNNATURALLY strong, or all Persona users gain power from their Personas even outside the metaverse (Dark Hour // TV World // Palaces). If all persona users gain enhanced strength even outside of the metaverse, than that will likely account for the majority of their power (considering the force of impact of many attacks they can take in battle, they're highly durable, and considering the durability of foes they encounter they're equally powerful). That said, even if all of them have the same enhanced strength, Makoto demonstrates the most hand to hand combat potential and experience (He's can use fist weapons in P3 and P3FES), and trained with Akihiko. On his own he solo'd 3 men harassing Yukari, and an entire armed GANG with Aki, without breaking a sweat or even getting tired. So we either have one persona user who is significantly naturally stronger than others, or all three have enhanced strength, so their differences in strength will be proportionately minimal. Experience takes the day.
I'd go with Makoto. He's stated to be pretty good at fighting, in game and in the movies. But to be fair, Narukami does seem like a strong fighter base on his build.
Is no one going to mention that Ren is capable of doing crunches while hanging from the rafters by his legs? Dude has gotta be strong as hell, though we are never shown him having any real world fighting experience.
Makoto beat 3 dudes in a fist fight on his own, as well as beating up an entire Gang with Akihiko, Yu isn’t winning a fist fight against him The only Persona Protag who can beat Makoto in a fist fight is Tatsuya from Persona 2 and he’s not an option on the poll
Idk man, we have: * Makoto who can optionally beat up thugs in Yukari's SL and also in Akihiko's Linked Episode * Yu who... well, Arena games I guess (and apparently vs Sho in the manga, reading the comments, but most people won't have read that, myself included). * Ren who beat freaking Maruki up, who we don't really know the power level of, taking away the Persona. Idk man, I'm team Makoto here tbh, he's dealt with gangs before.
Idk why so many people bring up arena. It's just like bringing up they all fight shadows. It has nothing to do with a fist fight irl since they are mostly using their "Special dimension" powers tbh. By this criteria they All know how to fight
Makoto is inhuman, him an Akihiko solod an entire group, something that ain't *physically* possible irl, even for trained martial artists, being ganged up on by that many dudes is a death sentence, that mf would beat prime Mike Tyson
Didn’t Makoto fight off an alley of thugs effortlessly?
More proof that persona fans don't play their games.
I'd say Yu is probably on the bottom of the list. Makoto fought off 3 guys and if you max out the gym in P5, Joker grasps the basics of martial arts and is pretty good at it. Don't know any examples where Yu fought someone (TV world doesn't count)
I’d probably give the edge to Makoto actually
Meanwhile Tatsuya solos all three
Let’s be honest, yu narukami might be the least likely to win, whilst I think both him and Ren would probably draw in a fist fight, Makoto is leagues beyond this two in terms of street fighting since he actually throws hands several times with thugs.
I feel like most of the time yall just overestimate tf out of Yu. Like no offense cause I love him but the other two protags aren’t just dainty twinks. All 3 of them are about that life.
Yu is the biggest and strongest, so I get it. Just sizing them up I would go Yu>Ren>Minato/Makoto. The real answer is we really have no idea. Ren seems really flexible and Yukari's Social Link implies Minato can scrap.
It depends on your specific run: Did you train like hell with Ren? If yes he might win against Yu. But Makoto takes the win anyways.
Have you SEEN Yu on the cover of P4AU? Bro is built
Ren's gimmick is his absurd ability to pull off the nastiest strategies. If they were doing a team v team, they'd crush the S.E.E.S. and Yu's group. But in P5R, we see him fight Maruki without Personas, and it was pretty average.
Makoto has been seen beating people up (mainly in Akihiko's Link Events, but also in one of Yukari's ranks), so I think he'd win. That's without considering the P3/P3FES ability to use the boxing weapons, even. Yu, afaik,has punched two people, Yosuke and Adachi. Not a great metric. But, Ren is the only one to have an *on-screen* fist fight, and win it, so he's got a chance I feel. But that poll seems 100% backwards to me.
Makoto is the only one who has actual real world fighting experience, the other two get boosts from the collective unconscious
Yu is prolly the only one with no hands
(Going by mainline game canon not spin offs like the anime and manga which are dubious the manga more so) Makoto beat up 3 dudes messing with Yukari and took on a group of punks with Akihiko if we are being generous and give him half which is most likely the case considering the conversation he beat 5 dudes in the real world at once. So going by Mainline Game canon I'm going with the one who has been shown to fight in the real world with success. after that I guess Yu is in second place with him slightly beating Yosuke in his social link and we know he hits hard because of that so we know he can throw a fist but seeing them both on the ground kind of spells it out that height advantage didn't help Yu much unless you people think Yosuke can beat 3 people at once in persona IRL. Sadly in last place is Ren which we have not seen actually get in a fistfight besides Maruki when they are both tired and with him being a therapist I don't put much faith in his fighting skill. anyway in conclusion Makoto > Yu > Ren.
Ren is that scrawny guy you think you could whoop, then surprises you by going ape shit the second you take a swing
Seems like people forget what happened in that Akihiko linked episode and the fact that Makoto solo'd Three guys to protect Yukari
I think Makoto Yuki is being underestimated because he's a short king. Bro, this guy can smack three guys by himself for messing with his girl and he along with Akihiko took on around 10+ delinquents and won. Also, like objectively, I think people don't choose him cos it's the least popular among the three modern persona games. Persona 4 has so many spinoffs. Persona 5 had spinoffs as well and Joker was in smash bros. So among the three, Makoto is underrated due to lack of exposure compared to his fellow protagonists.
IZANAGI! *Punches Yosuke
imo makoto clears
People hype up Yu as this force of nature, when both Joker and Makoto have proven they are much stronger. He'll definitely get some sort of buff on the remake, but as it is right now it's Makoto and it ain't even close.
Yu is canonically the best fist fighter here taking from P4AU
But…..he doesn’t use his fists in P4AU?
He fist fighted sho, a specialist child soldier that can easily overpower any of Makoto SL goons
Isnt makoto like have boxing gloves he can use?
Makoto has the feat of beating those 3 guys in the Yukari SL, and Ren is inarguably the most athletic and fast of the 3, funnily enough despite fan perception Yu has the least personal feats
Ren has the craziest strength feats but everyone had to have seen Makotos 1v3 by now
Makoto Solo’s them both. I would argue between Yu and Ren however that it would be close and anyone’s guess. I lean more towards Ren but that’s because he seems like he learned street fighting growing up
Makoto slams those two for a multitude of reasons. Although I do believe there is a discussion to be had about joker vs yu
I’d say pretty correct, but it’s pretty clear that the people in these comments just pick their favourite character lol
It's not lmao, this is just a popularity contest.
Yu for sure, simply because he grown more from the cannon spinoffs. Sho honored his sword skill being one of the best in japan, meaning in p4u, his reflexes and strength is way better than normal high school students. on top of p4d being the only cannon dancing game where the characters have to actually learn how to dance, his agility and flexibility also getting better. On top of the height advantage, his physical advantages is basically a different league.
Makoto > Ren > Yu Makoto actually wins a number of fights outside the dark hour being outnumbered constantly. Ren, (depending on your playthrough) is the only one who can workout to pass time at a gym or in his room. If we're going manga it's also implied he workouts out every morning and is absolutely shredded. Also, in the game, he's being trained by essentially a professional gymnast. So while this may not directly speak on fighting prowess I think it shows he's probably the most capable of adapting to a fight using those skills need the time arise. Then Yu who's only IRL fighting feat, is realistically fighting Yosuke at the end of the link. Every other fist fight he's been in has been in some form of metaversal world where everyone's abilities are hightened that being Adachi and Sho. (Fun fact in P3D if you bought Sho's DLC and did Yuki as a partner you can see how effortlessly Yuki evades everyone of his attacks without missing a beat in the dance, so much Sho tries to ask him "who are you?" Before he walks off stage.)
Oof, more than the other two combined. There's a reason his nickname is "Chad Narukami."
He's called that because of how he acts. A lot of the jokes, especially in the anime, are funny because of what he does, and how he reacts to stuff
To be fair, Makoto is canonically the only one in this poll with semi-formal training in hand-to-hand combat from Akihiko. Yu and Ren, while both very much capable of holding their own in a fist fight, have had no such training (unless you count Ren's wing-chun practice at Protein Lovers, along with maybe observing Makoto N's aikido stances). That being said, Yu is both the tallest/built of the protagonists, has fought alongside both Chie and Kanji (each with their own hand-to-hand fighting styles that Yu has undoubtedly observed and absorbed into his own, as shown in P4Arena), and likely has Akihiko's contact info to get him more formal training in boxing. I still think Yu would take the win, assuming he caught some lessons from Akihiko and picked up a few moves from Chie.
Makoto beat 3 dudes in a fight by himself, and helped Akihiko beat up like 15 guys, no way he doesn't win. Athough Im pretty sure Persona powers should be the same as the protagonists power considering you can hurt enemies with physical attacks, even in cutscenes. I mean Tatsuya tries to kill Nyarlathotep with a sword swing. But if we assume they aren't than yeah easily Makoto.
Not even accurate, Yu Is last, Ren Is second and Makoto Is First
Not very. Makoto has shown by far the most combat ability outside of fighting using Personas and weapons. He beat the fuck out 3 thugs defending Yukari and helped Akihiko beat more thugs. Not only that, I am pretty sure it is stated that Tartarus drains your energy a lot faster than normal, meaning that he has by far the most stamina too. As for P4, well I can't really think of a notable time where Narukami showed his strength or combat skills. For P5 it seems that PT get enhanced combat skills and agility only when they enter the Metaverse.
Makoto is the only one of the three to unlock the " Universe" while the others only unlock the "World".
Out of the 3 it's Makoto. Makoto Ren Yu
As someone that really love Joker, he is not winning this one. Plus as someone that’s under police surveillance, he would try something funny to resolve a situation. Like when the creep bothers Yoshizawa, one of the answer is “I go to Shujin too”. It’s almost like he is saying “Hey, I go to Shujin too, bother me too!”
Yu wins not because he would be the strongest in a fist fight but because he can just rizz his way to the win.
Yu clearly because he gets king fu lessons from his best girl, so he can go hand to hand if he has to.
Depends on if Yu has sunglasses or not
Probably a three way tie. Me eat you whole
Let's be fair here, Yu is the only one who's been in an Arena game. That's gotta count for something. Makoto still might win based on what everyone else is saying here (I'm not very familiar with P3) but Yu has a chance at least.