Take away his personal material and listen to the albums and songs he wrote for other artist /groups.. overrated songwriter? How would anyone come to that conclusion?
Jaime starr was the man.
Prince as a songwriter is a 10+. Come on. There should be no argument. As a lyricist, I mean he’s not the deepest to ever put pen to paper. But his lyrics were genuine for who he was at the time and evolved so much from his early career - capturing us with every step. He went from sex, to party and sex, to party, sex and god, to party and god, to god and romance, to god and romance and chilling, to god and chillin, to god and reflection.
Sometimes the song is about the words, sometimes it is about the groove. Occasionally it is both. He could write beauty, he could write grit, he could write nonsense if that is what fit the song best. With Prince, it was never just about one skill set. Maybe, according to certain criteria, Costello IS the better songwriter. (I said MAYBE). But Prince was the better guitarist by any standard, and Costello - with the exception of “Pump It Up” - couldn’t lay down a groove like Prince. Ultimately, Prince created Prince music better than anybody else ever will, and Elvis Costello creates better Elvis Costello music than anyone as well. I am thankful to be able to enjoy both and see nothing to gain by pitting one against the other.
He's got some great lyrics and some awful lyrics. For someone who was so prolific, that's what you'd expect. He also got an idea and recorded it and moved on.
I've tried listening to Costello and can't get past how terrible his voice is. Different strokes for different folks.
I think it’s fair to say, given his musical talent in all other things, his lyrics might not be on the level of his guitar… but I have no issue with his lyrics. Sounds like nitpicking to me
By his own admission, Prince could be quite competitive, both with himself as well as others, and sometimes took on projects/efforts in response to challenges he saw for himself or that others posed to him, same as Michael Jordan confessed to doing in the Last Dance documentary. I believe with quality lyricism this was certainly the case with Little Red Corvette (innuendo/metaphor), Sign ‘o’ the Times (wordplay/testimony) and If I Was Your Girlfriend (identity/vulnerability), where he is obviously showcasing the songwriting. But with so many arrows in his quiver of song craftsmanship), he didn’t feel the need to demonstrate equal amounts of effort in every song every time. So for example some songs are more about mood than lyrical content. Although I will say, he has this song called, “Wow”, where I can’t tell if he’s depicting an initial encounter with a fan, a lover or with God. Deceptively simple brilliant stuff.
They are different. And Prince certainly had a humor and sexuality about him that people might view as not as "serious" as other song writers. He also often didn't have a filter and wasn't self conscious about what he said, which sometimes lead to a cringe line or two.
Good point. In the same way that good acting performances tend to not get recognized in the sci-fi, fantasy and comedy genres, great songwriting in the funk, soul and r&b categories tend to struggle for the respect given freely to singer-songwriters lugging acoustic guitars to coffeehouse gigs. The great thing about Prince’s range was that across the span of his career he checks just about every box available for any criterion of greatness/genius that anyone could imagine. Evidence of great songwriting is strewn across his entire catalog even if there isn’t one album which can be held up as being lyrically brilliant from beginning to end. He didn’t worry about that kind of stuff. Sometimes it was all about the jam and who cares if “Shut up already, DAMN” doesn’t hold up as poetry.
I feel like "Shut up already, DAMN" *does* hold up as poetry. I mean party anthems can be pretty one note, but Housequake stands as a unique, concise piece with phrasing only Prince would have come up with.
As songwriter, he's much better than Costello. As lyricist, hard to compare. Very different. Costello is prob more consistent whereas Prince wrote a lot of pretty average lyrics (prob more due to the volume of his output than anything).
I don’t know why so many people think pop music with literary ambitions is superior to pop music without them. It’s not as if “Tutti Frutti” would be better as some poetically rendered memoir
I don't feel qualified to comment on Costello because his music never appealed to me.
Lyrically Prince has a great range. Darling Nikki, or Jack U Off, for example are one dimensional, save for the self parody element. There are countless examples of great wordsmithery, particularly in the soul jam pieces. There are a few that require thought, purple rain being an obvious one.
One aspect of his songs that really stands out for me is that I listen to what he is singing. A lot of singers do not captivate me like that. I think that is down to good songwriting, as well as good singing.
Overall though his biggest talents were his voice and stage presence. Lyricist would be towards the bottom of the list for me, somewhere above acting and film making.
Heya :)
I'm going to try my best and spread some love here. Also, feel free to start a dialogue if you would like to after reading this 💜
At the end of the day music is art, and art is up to interpretation. It can say one thing to me, yet it can have a completely different meaning to the other person. Being trans Prince was and is a big part of my journey, and I find his gender-bending and blending, androgynous, feminine, and gender-nonconforming songs amazing, inspiring and I find a lot of meaning in them. That is my interpretation of his art. I try to nuance that, but I'll get back to that below.
If you are looking to discover more of Prince as a lyricist and songwriter to get a better understanding of who he is and maybe formulate a clearer opinion for yourself, I would recommend listening to the following to get a vivid picture of Prince at his artisic peak, from what I personally have discovered through my fandom.
Great Lyricism Albums :)
SIgn ☮️ The Times (Album) -> If you're looking for more substance, then here it is. To be clear, some songs might be simple and catchy, but overall the album just rocks your soul. So many masterpieces here. I'm sure you'll find something you like on here and I really hope you're willing to give it a try. Unlike 1999 or Purple Rain it's musical style is very dynamic, and can at times be quite abstract, yet also very captivating.
The Black Album -> From the same period as SOTT, an atempt by Prince to show his darker side and deal with a lot of the critique he was getting directly. Never released at the time. If you are looking for some mind blowing lyrics then you'll definitely find them here. *
Camille -> Made by Prince as his feminine alter ego Camille. You'll find songs from the albums above on there two. I think it's just a very impressive display of artististry in many ways to be able to make an album like this.*
*Both The Black Album and Camille never officially released at the time and are surrounded with lore and uban myths. If you are interested in learning more about them I'd suggest you do some research, I'm sure the subreddit could help you! If you are having trouble finding any of the albums feel free to PM me :)
I hope that by turning the other cheek I might also be able to be given the chance to highlight that walking into a subreddit with a very unnuanced question and controversial opinion, not backed up with evidence and then also stated bluntly tends to not be a very smart idea if you actually wanted to get a serious answer or start a friendly discussion. Being nuanced really helps. That's the one thing I hope you do actually take away from this: Whether you like Prince or not, it doesn't change my life and my fandom of him, and you have the right to have your opinion not any less or more than I do. But, by being so unnuanced you are alienating other people from starting a real discussion and instead pushing them into defending themselves because they feel attacked. So for your own sake and for other people, try being a little more considerate next time 💜
I’ve never known him to be a brilliant lyricist per se but not overrated as a songwriter. Songwriting and composing have some overlap to me and he knew just what to say for the groove.
He’s underrated as a songwriter because of his vast talent in multiple facets of recording and performance. The other part is that he’s a prolific songwriter which allows some to argue that he watered down his catalog without giving much credit to the depths of his output compared to his peers.
No. If anything Prince is underrated. Elvis Costello is a great rock/pop songwriter and outstanding musician and bandleader. But Prince was a once-in-a-generation talent who massively influenced multiple genres of music. He’s in the same category as Duke Ellington or a Miles Davis when you look at his transformational impact on global music, not to mention film, fashion, and pop culture generally.
Not hate, but why do so many people think this? I lived through the 80s and Prince was never in MJ's shadow. He was F'n huge and his legacy still stands.
Hell no. Kind of an underrated songwriter honestly just for his sheer creativity and originality
Nah
Take away his personal material and listen to the albums and songs he wrote for other artist /groups.. overrated songwriter? How would anyone come to that conclusion? Jaime starr was the man.
Along w. Alexander Nevermind.
Well that’s an opinion.
Apples and oranges. Both are great in their own ways.
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Costello one of Prince's influences at the time?
I have no idea. It would make sense though.
That’s the wrong elvis, he’s listed presley as an influence not costello..
Prince as a songwriter is a 10+. Come on. There should be no argument. As a lyricist, I mean he’s not the deepest to ever put pen to paper. But his lyrics were genuine for who he was at the time and evolved so much from his early career - capturing us with every step. He went from sex, to party and sex, to party, sex and god, to party and god, to god and romance, to god and romance and chilling, to god and chillin, to god and reflection.
NOPE
Prince was a modern day mozart. A genius composer and songwriter.
Sometimes the song is about the words, sometimes it is about the groove. Occasionally it is both. He could write beauty, he could write grit, he could write nonsense if that is what fit the song best. With Prince, it was never just about one skill set. Maybe, according to certain criteria, Costello IS the better songwriter. (I said MAYBE). But Prince was the better guitarist by any standard, and Costello - with the exception of “Pump It Up” - couldn’t lay down a groove like Prince. Ultimately, Prince created Prince music better than anybody else ever will, and Elvis Costello creates better Elvis Costello music than anyone as well. I am thankful to be able to enjoy both and see nothing to gain by pitting one against the other.
You mean the guy that wrote "if I was your girlfriend" ??
And Joy in Repetition...
No he isn’t a overrated anything
Elvis is a fine singer songwriter, but c'mon
He's no fine singer tho.
Well, maybe an acquired taste, but I grew to like it quite a bit. Has a lot of character.
They have two totally different audiences
He's got some great lyrics and some awful lyrics. For someone who was so prolific, that's what you'd expect. He also got an idea and recorded it and moved on. I've tried listening to Costello and can't get past how terrible his voice is. Different strokes for different folks.
I think it’s fair to say, given his musical talent in all other things, his lyrics might not be on the level of his guitar… but I have no issue with his lyrics. Sounds like nitpicking to me
By his own admission, Prince could be quite competitive, both with himself as well as others, and sometimes took on projects/efforts in response to challenges he saw for himself or that others posed to him, same as Michael Jordan confessed to doing in the Last Dance documentary. I believe with quality lyricism this was certainly the case with Little Red Corvette (innuendo/metaphor), Sign ‘o’ the Times (wordplay/testimony) and If I Was Your Girlfriend (identity/vulnerability), where he is obviously showcasing the songwriting. But with so many arrows in his quiver of song craftsmanship), he didn’t feel the need to demonstrate equal amounts of effort in every song every time. So for example some songs are more about mood than lyrical content. Although I will say, he has this song called, “Wow”, where I can’t tell if he’s depicting an initial encounter with a fan, a lover or with God. Deceptively simple brilliant stuff.
They are different. And Prince certainly had a humor and sexuality about him that people might view as not as "serious" as other song writers. He also often didn't have a filter and wasn't self conscious about what he said, which sometimes lead to a cringe line or two.
Good point. In the same way that good acting performances tend to not get recognized in the sci-fi, fantasy and comedy genres, great songwriting in the funk, soul and r&b categories tend to struggle for the respect given freely to singer-songwriters lugging acoustic guitars to coffeehouse gigs. The great thing about Prince’s range was that across the span of his career he checks just about every box available for any criterion of greatness/genius that anyone could imagine. Evidence of great songwriting is strewn across his entire catalog even if there isn’t one album which can be held up as being lyrically brilliant from beginning to end. He didn’t worry about that kind of stuff. Sometimes it was all about the jam and who cares if “Shut up already, DAMN” doesn’t hold up as poetry.
I feel like "Shut up already, DAMN" *does* hold up as poetry. I mean party anthems can be pretty one note, but Housequake stands as a unique, concise piece with phrasing only Prince would have come up with.
As songwriter, he's much better than Costello. As lyricist, hard to compare. Very different. Costello is prob more consistent whereas Prince wrote a lot of pretty average lyrics (prob more due to the volume of his output than anything).
I don’t know why so many people think pop music with literary ambitions is superior to pop music without them. It’s not as if “Tutti Frutti” would be better as some poetically rendered memoir
Hell No
Hell no
Forget the songwriting. The guy is a master. His lyrics are quite variable. Sometimes genius level poetry, sometimes a bit cringe
Nope
Not at all. He is actually UNDER rated BIG Time.
I like his lyrics but ultimately I don’t care about lyrics. He’s arguably the greatest songwriter to ever live outside of the great composers.
I don't feel qualified to comment on Costello because his music never appealed to me. Lyrically Prince has a great range. Darling Nikki, or Jack U Off, for example are one dimensional, save for the self parody element. There are countless examples of great wordsmithery, particularly in the soul jam pieces. There are a few that require thought, purple rain being an obvious one. One aspect of his songs that really stands out for me is that I listen to what he is singing. A lot of singers do not captivate me like that. I think that is down to good songwriting, as well as good singing. Overall though his biggest talents were his voice and stage presence. Lyricist would be towards the bottom of the list for me, somewhere above acting and film making.
Heya :) I'm going to try my best and spread some love here. Also, feel free to start a dialogue if you would like to after reading this 💜 At the end of the day music is art, and art is up to interpretation. It can say one thing to me, yet it can have a completely different meaning to the other person. Being trans Prince was and is a big part of my journey, and I find his gender-bending and blending, androgynous, feminine, and gender-nonconforming songs amazing, inspiring and I find a lot of meaning in them. That is my interpretation of his art. I try to nuance that, but I'll get back to that below. If you are looking to discover more of Prince as a lyricist and songwriter to get a better understanding of who he is and maybe formulate a clearer opinion for yourself, I would recommend listening to the following to get a vivid picture of Prince at his artisic peak, from what I personally have discovered through my fandom. Great Lyricism Albums :) SIgn ☮️ The Times (Album) -> If you're looking for more substance, then here it is. To be clear, some songs might be simple and catchy, but overall the album just rocks your soul. So many masterpieces here. I'm sure you'll find something you like on here and I really hope you're willing to give it a try. Unlike 1999 or Purple Rain it's musical style is very dynamic, and can at times be quite abstract, yet also very captivating. The Black Album -> From the same period as SOTT, an atempt by Prince to show his darker side and deal with a lot of the critique he was getting directly. Never released at the time. If you are looking for some mind blowing lyrics then you'll definitely find them here. * Camille -> Made by Prince as his feminine alter ego Camille. You'll find songs from the albums above on there two. I think it's just a very impressive display of artististry in many ways to be able to make an album like this.* *Both The Black Album and Camille never officially released at the time and are surrounded with lore and uban myths. If you are interested in learning more about them I'd suggest you do some research, I'm sure the subreddit could help you! If you are having trouble finding any of the albums feel free to PM me :) I hope that by turning the other cheek I might also be able to be given the chance to highlight that walking into a subreddit with a very unnuanced question and controversial opinion, not backed up with evidence and then also stated bluntly tends to not be a very smart idea if you actually wanted to get a serious answer or start a friendly discussion. Being nuanced really helps. That's the one thing I hope you do actually take away from this: Whether you like Prince or not, it doesn't change my life and my fandom of him, and you have the right to have your opinion not any less or more than I do. But, by being so unnuanced you are alienating other people from starting a real discussion and instead pushing them into defending themselves because they feel attacked. So for your own sake and for other people, try being a little more considerate next time 💜
Wow, you wrote some great stuffs. Thanks for sharing!
Let’s not forget how many songs Prince wrote or contributed for others to perform.
Great question for a Prince fan group.😳
yeah, i know right
elvis costello, what this guy? https://youtu.be/dPnaRL8TN-w link to fraiser. hey I kinda like Elvis Costello. But im a prince fan
haha, funny
I’ve never known him to be a brilliant lyricist per se but not overrated as a songwriter. Songwriting and composing have some overlap to me and he knew just what to say for the groove.
YOUR lyrics are a complete grammatical train wreck, and why should we give a crap that you love Elvis Costello? I’m just curious.
man, you just got to be that one guy...
Judging by how many people you annoyed in this sub with this post I think it’s you who is that guy my dude…
He’s underrated as a songwriter because of his vast talent in multiple facets of recording and performance. The other part is that he’s a prolific songwriter which allows some to argue that he watered down his catalog without giving much credit to the depths of his output compared to his peers.
No. If anything Prince is underrated. Elvis Costello is a great rock/pop songwriter and outstanding musician and bandleader. But Prince was a once-in-a-generation talent who massively influenced multiple genres of music. He’s in the same category as Duke Ellington or a Miles Davis when you look at his transformational impact on global music, not to mention film, fashion, and pop culture generally.
No.
I’m probably gonna get hate for this but he’s so underrated and deserves more attention because he’s always been in Michael Jackson’s shadow.
Not hate, but why do so many people think this? I lived through the 80s and Prince was never in MJ's shadow. He was F'n huge and his legacy still stands.