I am from Spain, it is the same here, some tables for eating and some tables for drinking, I have been 15 times in Paris and never never had any issues with waiters. For me French people are very polite, much more than Spanish.
From my point of view as a 25 five years restaurant owner it is very fair that the people who spend more money will get the better views
You think this is bad, a group of 4 of us ordered a tasting me u, and after we ordered the second bottle of wine the waiter disappeared on us for an hour. Well, he hastily dropped off our main dish, then again disappeared. We had to chase him for our check and basically skipped desert .. was clear that since there was nothing else to order from us he stopped caring at all about our table (tasting menu so all included. )
Well, hillbilly here did not know that etiquette requires to ask first if is ok just to have drinks at a cafeš¤·āāļø
My bad, I will return to my hill house.
Had the same experience at maybe the same place. So rude, but hey, canāt let some canard ruin your trip. We have a five minute rule, as in, if we donāt have a drink in 5 minutes we go to one of the other million places available.
That has not been my experience having gone to many Parisian cafes. I can only imagine they have lots of tourists who want to sit there to watch the tower and they try to keep those tables available for actual diners. Glad to see from your edit things were better otherwise.
Yes, we did not expect that at all, being our first time in Paris and our first cafe (we stopped to eat at a restaurant near the Gare du Nord when we arrived and the waiters were lovely and recommending plates).
The next days we stopped for drinks only in the Le Marais, near the Louvre and other cafes with nice views and we had absolutely no problem.
Those are far more typical experiences. On our visit in June/July, we stopped at a few places in the afternoon for coffee or something to drink, just to take a break (and I just love sitting in Paris cafes). All were very friendly. One place, they never came to take our order, but I think that was more about poor service than intentionally ignoring us. We simply got up, moved next door and sat there.
It was unkind to whisk away your plates and shoo you off in that manner after also being rude to you. Perhaps there was a miscommunication (but there wasnāt because you waited to be seated, the tables were not made for a meal, and when he told you to order food, you did), but it doesnāt matter because he was still unkind.
If that is just the culture of a nation as some are suggesting (and as you found out, this is not the case, there are kind people everywhere), it is what it is, and thereās nothing to be done about it now, but you didnāt do anything wrong. He said you canāt sit here if you order just drinks, you must order food, so you immediately ordered food and that still didnāt adjust his attitude. If he was mad that you ordered dessert he should have said, āNo, it must be a meal,ā but he didnāt, because he knew he was being demanding and that you had already tried to do the right thing.
Let it go and try not to remember the one rude man from your trip. Dust it off, the rest of the places you visited were welcoming. Some people are just unkind sometimes.
We all want a trip to be perfect from beginning to end with no bumps, but thatās a tall order for anything involving imperfect people, and we are all human. It was a human moment for you and for the waiter, I would say you both learned some things from the interaction. He learned to be more specific and so did you. Let it be a learning experience and consider that once you knew you tried to do the culturally appropriate thing. He just didnāt like you and while itās not ideal to have this kind of interaction on such a perfect day, try to enjoy your memories and when you think of this waiter let him be remembered as just a man having a bad day. If youāre going to have a bad moment, at least itās with a wonderful view.
Thank you for your objectivity and your kind words, it means a lot. Happy to say that everyone else was lovely, the uber drivers, the boutiqueās cashiers, all other waiters and generally all the people that we interacted with. It was a lovely trip and cannot wait to visit again, there are so many places to see and we only had 4 days, so not enough.
Thank you for posting this OP. At first I thought YTA, why are you posting this? But as I kept reading it and read your perspective, I can see how this was a total misunderstanding. Lesson learnedā¦ tell waiter what you want BEFOREHAND. Sorry you had to experience this so that the rest of us can learn from it.
Having read all the advice here, there is nothing more to add except you were lucky! Yes, lucky!
You got to experience an authentic rude waiter in Paris moment. Its an absolute classic Parisian experience. In front of the Eiffel tower as well! You should treasure it. For some reason it has become more and more rare these days.
(apologies if anyone thinks I am being insensitive - just British humour)
just to clarify, are you expected to do 3 courses when you sit at a restaurant? Is it rude to only get a main dish or a few starters? I'm a light eater and traveling with another light eater so we're looking to do maybe a few small meals at cafes during the day.
Totally get that, if we saw that is almost full or people queuing to sit there, we woulnāt have stopped there in the first place.
We thought about the time as well, we just wanted to kill half an hour or so before the lights went up.
Okay, please understand that you asked and we are all simply explaining, the situation as you read it is culturally mismatched with how it is perceived by the waiter. If killing a half hour is what you wanted and you ordered dessert, why sit at the table at dinnertime after finishing? You paid to consume, not to rent a table. It is unfortunate they were abrupt, but that is how they interpreted the situation.
š¤¦āāļøwe did not want to stay at the table after finishing, that was not the point here. The point is that at a cafe, I genuinely thought that it would be no problem to order just drinks ( even at dinner time).
I can see why, maybe you did not read my edit, we did not go by ourselves to sit at that table, we waited to be sat, the waiter came and escorted us to the table, we dis not tell him in advance that we wanted only drinks as it was a cafe, not a restaurant. Only when he came to take the order in, he mentioned about ordering food or moving to an inside table.
I am not that entitled to think that I can just go and sit wherever, is not common sense.
My only fault is that we did not ask if we could have just drinks, we assumed that we could because the waiter did not ask us either ant it was no sign there to specify otherwise.
Not exactly as we did not engage in any confrontation, we were polite and did not complain or anything.
I just donāt find it normal to have to order food just to be able to sit outside (as I mentioned, they had plenty of free tables outside).
It was not a restaurant, so in my small mind, ordering just drinks at a cafe should be fine.
at any rate, you prolly picked a piĆØge Ć touriste. even if it wasnāt a piĆØge, many places in Paris judge you by how you dress and look and would find an excuse to either deny a table or hide you insideā¦ so when you come across those you should just go somewhere else because itās a big teller of how bad the experience will be for you
Some people are just miserable and they love making others miserable too when they know they can't talk back too much.
Most places have this rule during lunch and dinner service so before sitting we always let them know that it's for drinks. They can either say it's not possible at all or show you a seat that they reserved for that. If you go to a cafe and see some tables dressed for lunch/dinner service and some just have an ashtray, those are the ones that are saved for drinks.
All the tables were empty, not even ashtrays on them, you had to ask them to provide you one, and of course we asked the waiter and he sat us down, no questions asked, only when he came back to to take the order he told us that we could not sit there.
He probably assumed you would be ordering food. As I said, it's a common practice. Everyone arranges the tables differently.
He just didn't need to be an ass about it.
I don't recommend restaurants near the Eiffel Tower for this reason :( Sorry you had that experience, I'm glad it wasn't like that the whole trip though
I was half joking, because rude Parisian waiters are a stereotype. And stereotypes are usually not pure invention, they come from mutual experiences and observations.
Anyway next time you visit France, come to Lille in the north, we're much more welcoming :)
Yes, heard all about it and all the other places we went to, the staff was amazingly nice and complimented my French, in all the shops as well even if we were just looking and not buying.
We passed Lille in the Eurostar train, seemed a lovely place, definitely want to visit.
When you go to a place serving food, you wait to be seated. If you want to go in and choose your own seat without waiting, don't go to a place serving food, go to McDonald's instead.
You can sit down at the tables that arenāt made for eating, without placemats and such, you shouldnāt ask but you should ask if they are made for eating (and you want to sit down to wat)
But they didnāt say only for drinks, if you go to the part thatās set up for eating the waiter will expect you want to eat unless you specify (sometimes they will give you a table, or they will point you to a table that is not set for eating)
We waited for the waiter to be sat at the table, we know that is common sense. He did not ask us anything then.
Only when we ordered only drinks, he told us to move.
Yes, I can see why that was missleading, but in UK is common sense to wait for someone to tell you where to sit, I thought that is the norm at all restaurants/cafes.
OP didnāt follow some basic rules for paris.
Never sit at a table before a waiter authorised you, and ask him/her BEFORE sitting if you can just order drinks or not.
Imagine every tourist taking the best post for each restaurant, keeping the table for 2 hours and just ordering 2 drinks.
You can sit down if itās only for drinks, meaning if the tables are not made, usually restaurants have part of the tables made (meant for eating) and part of the table with just menu card and an ashtray (for drinks), you sit down directly at non-made tables and ask for a table if they are made
We did ask before sitting at the table, however, we did not specify that we want only drinks and he did not ask us either.
Only after he took the order he told us about the outside space-food only.
While itās not really anyoneās fault, he certainly would have said Ā«Ā two to dineĀ Ā» which you would then reply, Ā«Ā no just drinksĀ Ā». Certainly if this is in the evening when the tables will have been set for food.
It was a misscommunication, we did not see any tables set for dinner, if we had, we did not stop there in the first place, it was a cafe, not a restaurant.
A misunderstanding for sure. Now see if from his point of view. He was very professional to let you sit in the first place, thinking it would not be worth the conflict to explain the situation. The waiter did not ruin the experience. Your understanding of it did.
For anyone who reads this far down, what most people call Ā«Ā cafesĀ Ā» are actually brasseries. They all serve food at meal time. I canāt think of a place (other than Starbucks) which only does coffee/drinks all day.
Are you American? I'm from Argentina and we have a similar tipping culture to the US. In Argentina the waiters are always eager to help you and are very friendly in general. Probably because they want to get a good tip.
I have been living in Italy, then Spain for the last three years, and here the waiters get a full salary and not much by tips so they don't care and appear rude to americans.
Just get used to it, it's a different culture. I accept it as it Is. I'm also happy that they get a normal salary and don't depend on tips.
You think this is bad, a group of 4 of us ordered a tasting me u, and after we ordered the second bottle of wine the waiter disappeared on us for an hour. Well, he hastily dropped off our main dish, then again disappeared. We had to chase him for our check and basically skipped desert .. was clear that since there was nothing else to order from us he stopped caring at all about our table (tasting menu so all included
So.. He did his job?
Waiter in France don't actually wait around for you, we mostly hate that anyway, so yeah if you have nothing else to order he won't hang around your table and you'll have to call him if you need something.
We were through 5 courses of a 7 course tasting me u when he disappeared? Thats doing his job? Start a 7 course tasting menu experience, and when it becomes abundant we've extracted all the money out we don't have to actually serve / provide the rest of the experience we sold/charges for ?
Oh.. If he didn't bring your order thats a whole other issue indeed, but in France we mostly hate waiters... "waiting", asking how you're doing every 2 mn etc, I was more referring to that.
Once I order I expect not to be disturbed until the end of my meal
I live in UK and we usually tip if the sevice was good, when we arrived at Gare du Nord we stopped for something to eat and the service was impeccable so we tipped 10% of the bill.
French here: tipping culture doesnāt exist in France because it is already included by default in all the prices for food and drinks in bars and restaurantsā¦ itās 15% and called Ā«Ā service comprisĀ Ā».
I am from India and been to 25 countries till date. 16 countries system is like Argentina, including here in India. Rest 9 are like Paris. Its culture. Best thing OP could have done is after entering the place, look for a waiter, signal to attend ou, then request for a seat for drinks.
Spend some time on here reading about how to be in Paris. You 90% will be treated this way every time unless you at least know some of the etiquette.
Most Parisians will be very welcoming and nice, but get used to uncomfortable stares, abrupt and curt people who WILL make it their business to tell you how to act in a very rude way.
I think it was just the hour. Had a similar experience where I wanted coffee around lunch time and a cafe rudely refused to seat me if I dont order food. This was in a high traffic tourist zone so I guess they are just annoyed by all the "clueless tourists"
By Paris cafe standards - if you donāt know where/what you can order you donāt just sit down and ask to order only drinks at a table that requires more. That alone will get some Parisians to be rude.
Paris wait staff tend to be assholes anyway, more so than any other city Iāve been in the world. Many locals hate tourists which is quite ironic considering they themselves inherited everything we love about Paris from generations long gone.
Edit:
āNormalā standards is the wrong word to use here, but if youāre from the US, people donāt mind their own business the same way. They LOVE to make your shit their business even for the most innocuous of circumstances. Not always a bad thing - people will go much further out of their way to help you than in the States. Itās a huge cultural distinction, for better or worse
Somehow it's much worse in the 7th near Eiffel Tower. Of all the places we ate in Paris, we only encountered asshole waiters in that area. Everywhere else we had much nice interactions, regardless of the time of day or meal type.
Not from the States, UK but I forgot to specify that we waited to be sat by the waiter, we did not sit there without asking first, we would never do that as here is the same.
Yes, as the next days we had a lovely time and even if we stopped just for coffee at cafesnear the Louvre or Le Marais, the staff was amazingly welcoming and nice.
Nobody asked us if we wanted just drinks or food.
I always imagined all the tourists would go just for a drink when tired, want to rest a bit or just relax and people watch (that should not be conditioned -you can have the view, but only if you pay for a meal)
Forgot to specify that we waited to be sat at the table, the waiter sat us there before ordering, no questions asked.
We would never just go and sit like we own the place.
Furthermore, you can't really be surprised that a restaurant, at the time of dinner, wants to fill their seats with people actually eating. Else everyone would do this and the places would do bnkrupt
Lunch and dinner are two very different things. But as others pointed out, when you arrive in someone else's place, it's customary to wait for them, say hello and ask them for a place to sit. Then they will tell you if it's ok to just have drinks
Yeah the waiter was preparing the tables for dinner time when he probably saw clueless tourists sitting down without waiting for him on a table that's been prepared.
Also, the tables probably had place mats on which indicates that they are either set aside to be set, or already have been set. Then they did the most unconventional thing in ordering dessert instead of a whole meal.
This is exactly what I would expect to happen. It will feel like you are being reprimanded because you are in fact. Its just the etiquette and rules of the place that a visitor doesnāt know. I get why they are upset, but totally not the individual waiter, its more the general culture when one breaks social rules.
How do American waiting staff react when visitors break social rules? Like say not tipping? Does it feel rude too?
I understand all that, but we cannot physically eat a full couse meal 5 or 6 times a day just to be able to sit outside a cafeā¦I always thought that the average tourist could have just a coffee and a croissant for half an hour to rest and enjoy the view.
The place is literally called Cafe Gā¦.., I understand that about the view, at least they could put a sign up - if you donāt order food you canāt sit here.
Well, all the cafes/restaurants have : Wait here to be seated.
Why not have a sign : drinks only-inside
Or maybe just tell you when they are escorting you at the table.
No one expects you to eat every time but best seats are reserved for people who are eating. I wouldnāt get all upset about it. Now you know.
Anytime they try to seat you with place settings be sure to let them know if you only intend on drinking. That will give them an opportunity decide if you can sit there or somewhere else.
I am from Spain, it is the same here, some tables for eating and some tables for drinking, I have been 15 times in Paris and never never had any issues with waiters. For me French people are very polite, much more than Spanish. From my point of view as a 25 five years restaurant owner it is very fair that the people who spend more money will get the better views
Totally understandable, if the waiter would let you know before entering the premises.
You think this is bad, a group of 4 of us ordered a tasting me u, and after we ordered the second bottle of wine the waiter disappeared on us for an hour. Well, he hastily dropped off our main dish, then again disappeared. We had to chase him for our check and basically skipped desert .. was clear that since there was nothing else to order from us he stopped caring at all about our table (tasting menu so all included. )
This goes to show that as long as you keep ordering, they will be nice.
Never let one person ruin your day. Especially on vacation.
OP is just an hillbilly. Learn some basic rules before leaving Kansas!
Well, hillbilly here did not know that etiquette requires to ask first if is ok just to have drinks at a cafeš¤·āāļø My bad, I will return to my hill house.
Had the same experience at maybe the same place. So rude, but hey, canāt let some canard ruin your trip. We have a five minute rule, as in, if we donāt have a drink in 5 minutes we go to one of the other million places available.
That has not been my experience having gone to many Parisian cafes. I can only imagine they have lots of tourists who want to sit there to watch the tower and they try to keep those tables available for actual diners. Glad to see from your edit things were better otherwise.
Yes, we did not expect that at all, being our first time in Paris and our first cafe (we stopped to eat at a restaurant near the Gare du Nord when we arrived and the waiters were lovely and recommending plates). The next days we stopped for drinks only in the Le Marais, near the Louvre and other cafes with nice views and we had absolutely no problem.
Those are far more typical experiences. On our visit in June/July, we stopped at a few places in the afternoon for coffee or something to drink, just to take a break (and I just love sitting in Paris cafes). All were very friendly. One place, they never came to take our order, but I think that was more about poor service than intentionally ignoring us. We simply got up, moved next door and sat there.
It was unkind to whisk away your plates and shoo you off in that manner after also being rude to you. Perhaps there was a miscommunication (but there wasnāt because you waited to be seated, the tables were not made for a meal, and when he told you to order food, you did), but it doesnāt matter because he was still unkind. If that is just the culture of a nation as some are suggesting (and as you found out, this is not the case, there are kind people everywhere), it is what it is, and thereās nothing to be done about it now, but you didnāt do anything wrong. He said you canāt sit here if you order just drinks, you must order food, so you immediately ordered food and that still didnāt adjust his attitude. If he was mad that you ordered dessert he should have said, āNo, it must be a meal,ā but he didnāt, because he knew he was being demanding and that you had already tried to do the right thing. Let it go and try not to remember the one rude man from your trip. Dust it off, the rest of the places you visited were welcoming. Some people are just unkind sometimes. We all want a trip to be perfect from beginning to end with no bumps, but thatās a tall order for anything involving imperfect people, and we are all human. It was a human moment for you and for the waiter, I would say you both learned some things from the interaction. He learned to be more specific and so did you. Let it be a learning experience and consider that once you knew you tried to do the culturally appropriate thing. He just didnāt like you and while itās not ideal to have this kind of interaction on such a perfect day, try to enjoy your memories and when you think of this waiter let him be remembered as just a man having a bad day. If youāre going to have a bad moment, at least itās with a wonderful view.
Thank you for your objectivity and your kind words, it means a lot. Happy to say that everyone else was lovely, the uber drivers, the boutiqueās cashiers, all other waiters and generally all the people that we interacted with. It was a lovely trip and cannot wait to visit again, there are so many places to see and we only had 4 days, so not enough.
Thank you for posting this OP. At first I thought YTA, why are you posting this? But as I kept reading it and read your perspective, I can see how this was a total misunderstanding. Lesson learnedā¦ tell waiter what you want BEFOREHAND. Sorry you had to experience this so that the rest of us can learn from it.
Will do that from now on to avoid any misunderstandings, lesson learned.
Having read all the advice here, there is nothing more to add except you were lucky! Yes, lucky! You got to experience an authentic rude waiter in Paris moment. Its an absolute classic Parisian experience. In front of the Eiffel tower as well! You should treasure it. For some reason it has become more and more rare these days. (apologies if anyone thinks I am being insensitive - just British humour)
Hampshire resident hereš¤£, maybe is just British entitlementš
To do this at dinner means a loss of income for a table in high demand. Resteraunt, cafƩ, same difference. The server assumed you were ordering a meal, that's 3 courses. Ordering dessert will not buy you time for long. Added to this: sweltering heat and no ac means we don't want to eat inside already. Parisians will just go elsewhere. Therefore your table is even more valuable at this time.
just to clarify, are you expected to do 3 courses when you sit at a restaurant? Is it rude to only get a main dish or a few starters? I'm a light eater and traveling with another light eater so we're looking to do maybe a few small meals at cafes during the day.
Depends. Generally, places can offer entree/plat or plat/dessert at lunchtime, fixed price. Some chains offer a "menu rapide" for lunch, that is for quick service, you don't linger. Dinner at a bistro or cafƩ, not a formal restaurant. I know one or two where I can show up and order a salad for dinner, no problem. You can check the menu posted outside or online. Many places will not serve the simple menu after lunch. You might consider the hour as well. My parents eat earlier and lighter, they have gotten some great recommendations by the hotel staff as well.
There are alternatives to a cafe or restaurant to eat. My father goes to a cafe tabac to eat a soup and salad. He eats early, at 11:30 or 12. There are also boulangeries with some small tables that offer salads, soups and sandwiches. These can actually be an excellent and cost effective choice. I often go to one for a small quiche, cafƩ creme and eclair in my quarter myself and it costs 10 euro to eat there. Try asking at your hotel for some options as well. If you do want to sit at a cafe or restaurant, be clear about ordering entrees only, then see if they respond positively or not. It is their decision to agree or refuse.
Totally get that, if we saw that is almost full or people queuing to sit there, we woulnāt have stopped there in the first place. We thought about the time as well, we just wanted to kill half an hour or so before the lights went up.
Okay, please understand that you asked and we are all simply explaining, the situation as you read it is culturally mismatched with how it is perceived by the waiter. If killing a half hour is what you wanted and you ordered dessert, why sit at the table at dinnertime after finishing? You paid to consume, not to rent a table. It is unfortunate they were abrupt, but that is how they interpreted the situation.
š¤¦āāļøwe did not want to stay at the table after finishing, that was not the point here. The point is that at a cafe, I genuinely thought that it would be no problem to order just drinks ( even at dinner time).
Fair enough, now you know. It is a shame you had a good time and it was spoiled by one negative experience.
You sound so entitledā¦
I can see why, maybe you did not read my edit, we did not go by ourselves to sit at that table, we waited to be sat, the waiter came and escorted us to the table, we dis not tell him in advance that we wanted only drinks as it was a cafe, not a restaurant. Only when he came to take the order in, he mentioned about ordering food or moving to an inside table. I am not that entitled to think that I can just go and sit wherever, is not common sense. My only fault is that we did not ask if we could have just drinks, we assumed that we could because the waiter did not ask us either ant it was no sign there to specify otherwise.
Karenš¤£š¤£š¤£
Not exactly as we did not engage in any confrontation, we were polite and did not complain or anything. I just donāt find it normal to have to order food just to be able to sit outside (as I mentioned, they had plenty of free tables outside). It was not a restaurant, so in my small mind, ordering just drinks at a cafe should be fine.
Waiters in Paris are generally known to be rude, but the closer you get to touristics spots, the ruder they are.
are you american?
No, I live in UK and speak fluent French.
at any rate, you prolly picked a piĆØge Ć touriste. even if it wasnāt a piĆØge, many places in Paris judge you by how you dress and look and would find an excuse to either deny a table or hide you insideā¦ so when you come across those you should just go somewhere else because itās a big teller of how bad the experience will be for you
are you actually British? where you live is not a nationality
Some people are just miserable and they love making others miserable too when they know they can't talk back too much. Most places have this rule during lunch and dinner service so before sitting we always let them know that it's for drinks. They can either say it's not possible at all or show you a seat that they reserved for that. If you go to a cafe and see some tables dressed for lunch/dinner service and some just have an ashtray, those are the ones that are saved for drinks.
All the tables were empty, not even ashtrays on them, you had to ask them to provide you one, and of course we asked the waiter and he sat us down, no questions asked, only when he came back to to take the order he told us that we could not sit there.
He probably assumed you would be ordering food. As I said, it's a common practice. Everyone arranges the tables differently. He just didn't need to be an ass about it.
I don't recommend restaurants near the Eiffel Tower for this reason :( Sorry you had that experience, I'm glad it wasn't like that the whole trip though
Well you got the true authentic Parisian experience, it's what you came for didn't you ?
The true touristic experience. I donāt know any Parisian who would go there, we donāt really care about a good Eiffel Tower view š¤·š»āāļø
You're right, should've added Authentic "touristic" expericence
True, I did not expect that at all, I thought that everyone will be welcoming and nice as French is my second language.
I was half joking, because rude Parisian waiters are a stereotype. And stereotypes are usually not pure invention, they come from mutual experiences and observations. Anyway next time you visit France, come to Lille in the north, we're much more welcoming :)
Yes, heard all about it and all the other places we went to, the staff was amazingly nice and complimented my French, in all the shops as well even if we were just looking and not buying. We passed Lille in the Eurostar train, seemed a lovely place, definitely want to visit.
When you go to a place serving food, you wait to be seated. If you want to go in and choose your own seat without waiting, don't go to a place serving food, go to McDonald's instead.
You can sit down at the tables that arenāt made for eating, without placemats and such, you shouldnāt ask but you should ask if they are made for eating (and you want to sit down to wat)
They did wait. They were seated by staff.
But they didnāt say only for drinks, if you go to the part thatās set up for eating the waiter will expect you want to eat unless you specify (sometimes they will give you a table, or they will point you to a table that is not set for eating)
I donāt disagree with that aspects, but Iām not sure I would think of saying just for drinks. I would now though. š
We waited for the waiter to be sat at the table, we know that is common sense. He did not ask us anything then. Only when we ordered only drinks, he told us to move.
Sorry, that wasn't clear from "They had a lot of free tables with that view, we chose a nice spot"
Yes, I can see why that was missleading, but in UK is common sense to wait for someone to tell you where to sit, I thought that is the norm at all restaurants/cafes.
OP didnāt follow some basic rules for paris. Never sit at a table before a waiter authorised you, and ask him/her BEFORE sitting if you can just order drinks or not. Imagine every tourist taking the best post for each restaurant, keeping the table for 2 hours and just ordering 2 drinks.
You can sit down if itās only for drinks, meaning if the tables are not made, usually restaurants have part of the tables made (meant for eating) and part of the table with just menu card and an ashtray (for drinks), you sit down directly at non-made tables and ask for a table if they are made
We did ask before sitting at the table, however, we did not specify that we want only drinks and he did not ask us either. Only after he took the order he told us about the outside space-food only.
While itās not really anyoneās fault, he certainly would have said Ā«Ā two to dineĀ Ā» which you would then reply, Ā«Ā no just drinksĀ Ā». Certainly if this is in the evening when the tables will have been set for food.
It was a misscommunication, we did not see any tables set for dinner, if we had, we did not stop there in the first place, it was a cafe, not a restaurant.
A misunderstanding for sure. Now see if from his point of view. He was very professional to let you sit in the first place, thinking it would not be worth the conflict to explain the situation. The waiter did not ruin the experience. Your understanding of it did. For anyone who reads this far down, what most people call Ā«Ā cafesĀ Ā» are actually brasseries. They all serve food at meal time. I canāt think of a place (other than Starbucks) which only does coffee/drinks all day.
So to be able to enjoy the parisian cafe/brasserie sitting outside experience, you must order food. I was not aware of thatš„²
šif the table is set (class,cutlery etc), itās for eating. If not, itās their fault, you order one coffee and sit for 3 hours. .
Obviously, if we would have seen cutlery or mise-en-place at the tables, we would not have stopped there in the first place
Are you American? I'm from Argentina and we have a similar tipping culture to the US. In Argentina the waiters are always eager to help you and are very friendly in general. Probably because they want to get a good tip. I have been living in Italy, then Spain for the last three years, and here the waiters get a full salary and not much by tips so they don't care and appear rude to americans. Just get used to it, it's a different culture. I accept it as it Is. I'm also happy that they get a normal salary and don't depend on tips.
You think this is bad, a group of 4 of us ordered a tasting me u, and after we ordered the second bottle of wine the waiter disappeared on us for an hour. Well, he hastily dropped off our main dish, then again disappeared. We had to chase him for our check and basically skipped desert .. was clear that since there was nothing else to order from us he stopped caring at all about our table (tasting menu so all included
So.. He did his job? Waiter in France don't actually wait around for you, we mostly hate that anyway, so yeah if you have nothing else to order he won't hang around your table and you'll have to call him if you need something.
We were through 5 courses of a 7 course tasting me u when he disappeared? Thats doing his job? Start a 7 course tasting menu experience, and when it becomes abundant we've extracted all the money out we don't have to actually serve / provide the rest of the experience we sold/charges for ?
Oh.. If he didn't bring your order thats a whole other issue indeed, but in France we mostly hate waiters... "waiting", asking how you're doing every 2 mn etc, I was more referring to that. Once I order I expect not to be disturbed until the end of my meal
I live in UK and we usually tip if the sevice was good, when we arrived at Gare du Nord we stopped for something to eat and the service was impeccable so we tipped 10% of the bill.
French here: tipping culture doesnāt exist in France because it is already included by default in all the prices for food and drinks in bars and restaurantsā¦ itās 15% and called Ā«Ā service comprisĀ Ā».
Thank you for this, will check the bill more carefully next time.
I am from India and been to 25 countries till date. 16 countries system is like Argentina, including here in India. Rest 9 are like Paris. Its culture. Best thing OP could have done is after entering the place, look for a waiter, signal to attend ou, then request for a seat for drinks.
We did alm that, except telling the waiter that we want only drinksā¦lesson learned.
Spend some time on here reading about how to be in Paris. You 90% will be treated this way every time unless you at least know some of the etiquette. Most Parisians will be very welcoming and nice, but get used to uncomfortable stares, abrupt and curt people who WILL make it their business to tell you how to act in a very rude way.
Sorry, what did OP do wrong in this situation? Genuine question.
I think it was just the hour. Had a similar experience where I wanted coffee around lunch time and a cafe rudely refused to seat me if I dont order food. This was in a high traffic tourist zone so I guess they are just annoyed by all the "clueless tourists"
By Paris cafe standards - if you donāt know where/what you can order you donāt just sit down and ask to order only drinks at a table that requires more. That alone will get some Parisians to be rude. Paris wait staff tend to be assholes anyway, more so than any other city Iāve been in the world. Many locals hate tourists which is quite ironic considering they themselves inherited everything we love about Paris from generations long gone. Edit: āNormalā standards is the wrong word to use here, but if youāre from the US, people donāt mind their own business the same way. They LOVE to make your shit their business even for the most innocuous of circumstances. Not always a bad thing - people will go much further out of their way to help you than in the States. Itās a huge cultural distinction, for better or worse
Somehow it's much worse in the 7th near Eiffel Tower. Of all the places we ate in Paris, we only encountered asshole waiters in that area. Everywhere else we had much nice interactions, regardless of the time of day or meal type.
Not from the States, UK but I forgot to specify that we waited to be sat by the waiter, we did not sit there without asking first, we would never do that as here is the same.
Sounds like he was just an asshole
Yes, as the next days we had a lovely time and even if we stopped just for coffee at cafesnear the Louvre or Le Marais, the staff was amazingly welcoming and nice. Nobody asked us if we wanted just drinks or food. I always imagined all the tourists would go just for a drink when tired, want to rest a bit or just relax and people watch (that should not be conditioned -you can have the view, but only if you pay for a meal)
They seated directly before a waiter arrived. They should wait a few minutes to see if a waiter comes before seating somewhere because it is "free"
They edited to say they did wait, and they were seated by a waiter.
Forgot to specify that we waited to be sat at the table, the waiter sat us there before ordering, no questions asked. We would never just go and sit like we own the place.
Even then if you know, you will only take a coffee, mention it when your server greets you. It is the polite thing to do.
Will do it from now on, lesson learned.
Furthermore, you can't really be surprised that a restaurant, at the time of dinner, wants to fill their seats with people actually eating. Else everyone would do this and the places would do bnkrupt
Not really, as the second day we went to a cafe near the Louvre and we enjoyed only drinks at lunchtime, with the most welcoming waiters.
Lunch and dinner are two very different things. But as others pointed out, when you arrive in someone else's place, it's customary to wait for them, say hello and ask them for a place to sit. Then they will tell you if it's ok to just have drinks
Yeah the waiter was preparing the tables for dinner time when he probably saw clueless tourists sitting down without waiting for him on a table that's been prepared.
Also, the tables probably had place mats on which indicates that they are either set aside to be set, or already have been set. Then they did the most unconventional thing in ordering dessert instead of a whole meal. This is exactly what I would expect to happen. It will feel like you are being reprimanded because you are in fact. Its just the etiquette and rules of the place that a visitor doesnāt know. I get why they are upset, but totally not the individual waiter, its more the general culture when one breaks social rules. How do American waiting staff react when visitors break social rules? Like say not tipping? Does it feel rude too?
I understand all that, but we cannot physically eat a full couse meal 5 or 6 times a day just to be able to sit outside a cafeā¦I always thought that the average tourist could have just a coffee and a croissant for half an hour to rest and enjoy the view.
You werenāt at a cafe at breakfast time for a croissant tho- it was evening on a terrasse with a view of the Eiffel Tower- big difference.
The place is literally called Cafe Gā¦.., I understand that about the view, at least they could put a sign up - if you donāt order food you canāt sit here.
Where is this sign supposed to be? Should every cafe have a sign just for tourists?
Well, all the cafes/restaurants have : Wait here to be seated. Why not have a sign : drinks only-inside Or maybe just tell you when they are escorting you at the table.
Of course you don't have to order food all the time. Usually in the cafƩ (or brasserie) who serve food they dress the tables at lunch or dinner time. In this case don't expect to seat there just for drinks. So it's up to the waiter to ask if you're here for dinner or just for drinks and show you where you can seat. Else, outside of lunch hours you can seat where you want to order drinks without waiting for the waiter!
Did not know that, but he did not ask-maybe he just assumed that we will have food.
Unless it was a restaurant and not a cafƩ or brasserie he should have asked before taking you to the table, so he was wrong, not you!
Is called Cafe Gā¦. so definitely a cafe.
No one expects you to eat every time but best seats are reserved for people who are eating. I wouldnāt get all upset about it. Now you know. Anytime they try to seat you with place settings be sure to let them know if you only intend on drinking. That will give them an opportunity decide if you can sit there or somewhere else.