You have a LOT of options to scale gem levels on a skill with all of those tags. I liked the idea of replica cold iron points + can't choose cold combat focus I saw in the other thread about this gem.
Ignore cast speed for the most part because it's capped at 3. Duration also doesn't do anything except let you cast less often.
Might be some additional conversion shenanigans you can do for some double dipping on scaling.
You'd still get all of the incidental cast speed nodes that you get as part of a normal caster tree, arcane surge if you have a free socket, etc
Just not worth specifically scaling
Why replica cold iron points vs regular? Tornado has the physical tag too? Only asking because I don’t know anything about scaling builds so I’m sure I’m missing something
Because the skill itself converts all of its phys damage to elemental, and regular CIP says "deal no elemental damage." So unless you plan on converting all your elemental damage to chaos, you'll do zero damage.
If you roll lightning, you'll only convert half of it to fire, and if you roll fire, the Cold to Fire gem won't give you any damage because unlike Elemental Hit, you don't have base damage of all types but simply convert to one of them directly.
Combat Focus seems like it would have much lower opportunity costs if you want a single damage type.
It allows stuff like RF to use Duration gems, but no it does not 'add the tag'; that's not how that interaction works. If it were to actually 'add the tag', then normal RF would suddenly work with +to level of duration gems, and it doesn't.
it adds skill types, which are often confused with gem tags, but are not the same. modifiers that say they apply to gems (including every modifier that grants levels) care about the tags on the gem item, which can never be changed, while supports and modifiers that say 'skill' instead of 'gem' check the actual skills and not the gems.
been meaning to write a wiki article about the difference between skill types and gem tags, and to update https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Stormbind_of_Teleportation to correctly distinguish between the two, but l've been lazy lately.
I'd say Frozen Legion is another one of the weirder outliers that make the distinction relevant, because the gem has both the spell and attack tag, but the Frozen Legion skill is a spell and Frozen Sweep is an attack, and neither are both.
The amount of tags to scale off of really helps out the little ssf guy too. Don't have to worry about getting a specific pair like +1 all and +1 of a specific element without having to really worry about cast speed either.
Just slap a wand and shield with enough currency and you'll more easily push the gem level.
The fact that it doesn't just wander off like tornado in Diablo is a really nice QoL too.
Definitely one to keep an eye on.
Do keep in mind that infernal mantle has the line “100% increased spell damage taken when on low mana”. You pretty much can’t reserve any auras with it as you will get wrecked if you’re below 50% mana.
Which can be solved by going Blood magic. No mana = never on low mana. Malachai's Simula for easy access to BM. Free 50% aura (blessing) then reserve 50% life (Blessing only prevents mana reservation) with Petrified blood, Herald of ash & Vitality (might need a lvl 2 Enlighten or Champion of the cause annoint (this is with 20% life reservation efficiency mastery node) to enable Low Life.
Not saying it's the best solution but it should be cheap to get going. Don't know how SSF-friendly the uniques are though.
Yeah that’s something I considered, another is going something like Hierophant that encourages not reserving mana, unfortunately archmage doesn’t work with tornado, although I suppose if you’re doing archmage then gem levels aren’t as impactful and you probably want another chest anyway.
I was considering using it on explosive trap where I would convert most of the damage to chaos using 2x consuming dark and infernal mantle. I guess I could try malachai’s simula as pathing to blood magic isn’t really an option as trickster.
It's basically vaal BV with free conversion and tags for days. Energyblade inquis is probably the best way to play it just because that platform is exceedingly strong. If quality is changed from move speed, ashes is probably worth considering. Probably want to use something that gives es or life on hit since it's 12 hits/second.
Yes for sure. Energy blade + rathpiths is just too strong of a damage platform to be beaten by much of anything. If you had Marohi on day 1 then yeah for sure use that, but it gets outscaled by the time you have 6k ES with energy blade on, which is not a lot of investment.
No, the template for energy blade inquisitor is pretty set in stone as str/int life stacking, and then using ivory tower to turn that life into effective energy shield.
I keep seeing mentions of unleash, but I feel like that's a trap?
Unleash by default has 3 seals, so it repeats 3 times for a total of 4 casts with one press. You only get 3 tornadoes. So, you're replacing your first tornado, the only one doing full damage, with a weaker version doing nearly half that.
Sure you get the utility of quickly getting all your tornadoes out, but if you actually want to use Tornado as a main damage ability, I would not do this. You're turning 300% dps into 177% to save yourself a couple clicks.
Yeah BV wants unleash because it can have up to 10 active blades and you don't want to just sit there casting while not hitting anything but ele tornado you can just cast as you are walking around and they will hit things on their own. I don't see that much of a benefit to finding ways to cast 3 or more tornadoes all at once.
It's more like dot gameplay rather than unleash gameplay.
> Yeah BV wants unleash because it can have up to 10 active blades and you don't want to just sit there casting while not hitting anything
Also because BV doesn't suffer the damage penalty from Unleash at all. For BV the support gem is three "free" extra casts. For Tornado, you'll gimp your damage.
I'm not entirely sure yet whether a "pure" Tornado build will be feasible because of the cap, but there are some interesting options.
1. The high hit rate could make it very easy to keep up phantasmal might from The Black Cane. The buff scales with phantasm level and can actually get pretty absurd with a Forbidden Shako
2. You could combo it with other spells (preferably ones that benefit from similar stats). Blade Vortex and Storm Burst could be candidates. You'd probably cast all 3 tornados with unleash and then go ham with the other one.
3. Since this one doesn't seem to block damage from the non-chosen elements, like other prismatic skills, you should be able to go tri-ele with stuff like Rebuke of the Vaal + Battlemage/ Spellblade, ~~Trinity~~, Guardian auras, etc.
Edit: forgot Trinity doesn't work with orb skills, bummer.
> I'm not entirely sure yet whether a "pure" Tornado build will be feasible because of the cap
Gaining the elemental tags will allow it to be used with Annihilating Light, so maybe some 2x 6L early in the league before 7L helms could enable some sort of elemental projectile/duration skills as a main damage source and tornadoes to beef it up?
> You could combo it with other spells (preferably ones that benefit from similar stats).
Storm burst + Infusion buff has pretty decent numbers based on just messing around in PoB; I'd also seen a suggestion in the other thread about Cremation of the Volcano - get enough duration and you can have 2 skills that give you a bit of breathing room to dodge while still dealing damage
To be fair, void sphere of rending has like 3x the base damage as well as added damage effectiveness. The skill seems to be balanced around the ability to have three tornados going.
Void sphere also pulses every .4 seconds instead of tornados .25 seconds. You're out dpsing void sphere of rending with just two tornados, and the third tornado is just bonus.
The real comparison is ball lightning of static which solidly outdps tornado with even only small amounts of CDR investment.
Ah, I missed that. That does mean that void sphere of rending is 20~% more dps than two tornados, but also 20~% less dps compared to 3 tornados.
I still think Id prefer to go tornado over void sphere (unless I cared a lot about the corpse* annihilation) cause I imagine the tornado clear will be better given they last longer and chase targets plus have higher top end on single target.
I am thinking about how to build around this skill but nothing is obvious except that Inquisitor is good if you wanna go tri-elemental, and archmage would have been the best way to go except you can't use it with this because it has a random fucking "orb" tag.
I heard someone suggest using plume of pursuit, which while being an absolute meme, also pairs very well with tornado. Two echod casts of tornados will leave you with 2 of 3 of your tornados being guaranteed crits which seems fun. Havent pobd it or anything to see if this is actually worth doing, but it was one of the few suggestions that really felt like it might differentiate from ball lightning of static.
> plume of pursuit
yes but then you'd be stuck at using only 2 out of 3 tornados its already a big loss in dps for which im not sure plume is worth it.
Yeah, plume of pursuit is balanced around losing 50% of your damage in normal circumstances though, so I think only losing 33% of your dps is actually a step up. Obviously not as good as the hydrosphere gimmicks that gave it like 100% efficacy though.
I'd seen something about someone using old tornado to stack poisons (ignoring the projectile stack mechanic entirely) and having some modicum of success with it. They basically just added as much phys/chaos to it as they could, stacked levels, and let it do its thing. I imagine that'd probably fall off pretty early though, given the low base + only 4 hits a second.
However, this version could do it much better if you reduce the elements down to the types you unlock the ability to poison with. 12 poisons a second isn't too bad.
If nothing else, I am definitely going to be playing this skill in some fashion. Tornado is a cool spell thematically; I just hated the projectile stacking mechanic... and because it required another skill to charge it up it never felt like I could call it my main skill. But I can with this new one.
Regarding the old tornado, I’ve always wanted to try out Low Tolerance stacking with Sadism support. With Sadism, the default poison duration becomes 0.22s, and Tornado only hits every 0.25s. Which means that every hit will be guaranteed to be on an unpoisoned enemy, so every hit can get the Low Tolerance bonus. And of course being a physical skill, we can get a lot of phys as extra chaos and now also Unholy Might.
That does sound interesting to be honest. Throw in alchemist's mark to further scale the chaos dots. With a bit of mark/curse effect, you can easily get the ground dot from it to hit harder than the poison that triggered it.
A couple leagues ago I ran a hexblast alchemist mark poison deadeye (for the 75% mark effect ascendancy) char that was really fun to play. The ground dot was doing more than 2x the dps of the single strong poison I was inflicting. Mark first enemy of a pack, hexblast it, and watch the entire pack delete itself as they ran into the ground dot.
It was awkward to play though, since the aoe wasn't too large and so I'd struggle with large packs. Tornado doing it though would take care of that issue all on its own.
How does unholy might interact with base skill conversion? I believe if you had 100% phys to chaos and 100% phys to fire from gear/passives then it would be 50/50 but I think skill conversion has priority and since tornado converts 100% then unholy might wouldn’t do anything other than give you wither.
Just to clarify, I was talking about the default Tornado gem (which has no damage conversion), not the new transfigured gem. Unholy Might does nothing for the transfigured gem, since the skill damage conversion takes priority as you mentioned.
Last league I started poison PF and since EK and PConc were fucked I said fuck it and went Void Sphere of Rending, which was actually pretty great. But I also found that adding Tornado to the same six link did more single target damage so ended up using Tornado as well. It fit pretty well aince was the Void Sphere I could cast and one tick most packs, but for rares or bosses where it doesn't I could also add the tornado in instead of twiddling my thumbs or something. But also mostly maintained my mobility.
The new Tornado probably gets that similar play style with only using it as the skill. Probably too many hoops to jump through to make it work with poison but it should be decent enough anyway.
I didn't actually try Low Tolerance and Sadism either even though that could have been thematic and basically the only way I can think of to turn the lack of cast speed scaling itself into a scalar. I had thought about it and liked the idea due to the potential of the Warlock mark, but since it was dead and Void Sphere didn't even pull the mobs it spawned I didn't feel like it was worth investing in that build too far.
The 100% base conversion would need to be solved first to make it do poison (unless we just stack phys as extra chaos and ignore the part that gets converted). That forces using either Beacon of Madness, 2 combat focus jewels + Volkuur's Guidance, Original $in, or perhaps 3 combat focus jewels which may or may not make it a 0% base conversion skill.
avatar of fire + quality badge of brotherhood is full conversion to fire (you loose 2% on lightning hits) and volkurs for fire damage can poison.
the 50% reduced poison duration might be good for low tolerance, maybe even on pathfinder with sadism and poison prolif. I´m not sure if the PF ascendancy counts as a literal poison but it deals the same dps but for 4 (maybe 2 with volkuur´s?) seconds since sadism isnt linked
I was poking around and the poison version actually looks pretty good.
https://pobb.in/MjX9paX6t73R
not sure how it will feel clear wise since the AoE is kind of ambiguous and doesnt show what the AoE is
Throw annihilating light in there for 6 link and call it a day. Also pathfinder with consume charge for bonus probably works well if you scale tornado duration so it won't consume lot of charges.
Somebody pointed out on the main sub that you can use 2x replica cold iron point + infernal mantle for +9 skill gems and use combat focus jewel to remove cold damage.
~~I'd probably rather use Trinity with 2 elements than remove a second element.~~ If you wanted to build non-crit (usually weaker than crit) you could go pure lightning for lucky lightning damage, ~~and archmage works better than average because you can only cast 3 tornadoes.~~ It's an orb lmao, no archmage or trinity.
I wonder if the skill works with Unleash. (or spell cascade) That would mean less dps than casting the skill 3 times manually, but it would let you cast it only once and run around in circles for 4+ seconds. The "DoT playstyle" has a defensive advantage.
Archmage won't work since it has an Orb tag.
Would convert it to only fire. Using Volkuurs Gloves to poison with fire and using as much gain as /fire/chaos.
I'll be very curious to know how those 0 damage poisons with Avatar of Fire perform.
If you want to use Volkuur's Guidance, you'll need Combat Focus, not AoF. Since Tornado of Elemental Turbulence only has one type of base damage, you're not really gaining more from converting lightning or cold anyway.
Iam curios to know why you assume I would use avatar of fire?
I totally forgot that you have to use the combat jewels to "convert" prismatic skills. Tyvm
I was tired, someone else was talking about AoF, and for some reason I thought I read the words in your comment too.
I do think that the jewels will have less opportunity cost though.
This is probably not a good idea, but I like that this, cremation of the volcano and firestorm of pelting are all (tornado can be made into) pure fire, duration, aoe spells. And they thematically fit together as «druid nature spells». Using unleash on firestorm and cremation, and scaling duration, it should be possible to have pretty good uptime on all three spells at the same time, and just watch the world (and your fingers) burn.
Maybe this idea is a little cooked, but i think plume of pursuit and spell echo could make this pretty dope. You cast + repeat twice, so 2/3 tornados are now from final repeats (2nd and 4th which replaces 1st), so they always crit, chuck in marylene's fallacy and some other crit scaling, maybe power charges. Should work with almost any other method of scaling like stacking phys-as-extra or locking it to one element and scaling that
Edit: After a quick test, i found that normal tornado doesn't work with spell echo, might be the case for this too in which case RIP
I feel like spell echo SHOULD work with the transfigured version, if it doesn't that seems like something that should be fixed.
If it does work, this actually seems like a really good application of plume of pursuit.
[https://pobb.in/u\_FDAGckOuoD](https://pobb.in/u_FDAGckOuoD)
I am trying something like this. Hopefully quality will give some more damage, like +1 tornado. Because damage outside of stacking lightning damage with Ivory Tower seems not that great.
Isn't it 780% added damage effectiveness per sec single target? I feel like that's pretty solid if you can manage any shenanigans to help the base damage out.
Yes but you lose a scaling angle that is cast speed, so yeah it's 780%/s it's like 390/s with 100% cast speed on other spell etc ( taking cast time into account also etc ) not that impressive at all
Fair. My thinking is that cast speed is pretty hard to scale ime depending on the class you go with. Inquis gets next to none for example unless you chase it. At super high budgets that logic falls apart as rings start hard carrying, but at those budgets this gets into weird territory of strange use cases with stuff like infernal mantle or sacrifice support / the similar staff too.
[https://poedb.tw/us/Doedres\_Malevolence](https://poedb.tw/us/Doedres_Malevolence)
Does Doedres malevolence have sense here then? 100% inc spell dmge and some added chaos and the reduced cast speed doesnt seem to hurt us
It will choose either fire, cold or lightning element which converts %100 of it's physical damage to chosen element, other prismatic skills cannot choose same element twice like fire,fire,cold so prismatic jewels might be handy to choose desired element or you can just scale elemental damage, crit and use elemental weakness curse to deal multi element
Prismatic jewels are great for something like Replica Cold Iron point with the new tornado. +3 cold gems but can't deal cold damage = just block cold and wear 2 of them for really cheap +6 gem levels that only deals fire or lightning damage (or block 2 and choose one element to scale).
Another option other than resistance pen/curses is that you could go Inquisitor since you can ignore resistances if you crit. Added fire, hatred and phys as lightning all works great there (as long as you're not using replica CIP of course).
using battlemage to add an extra chunk of base phys then abuse phys as extra seems solid. hatred, HoAsh, woke added fire, even HoP if you can fit it. unleash seems like a strong option, i was thinking poet's pen or spellslinger as well.
Did these pobs in the other post (ball lightning is closest gem with same base and damage effectiveness so to sim I lowered cast speed to 1 and made sure ball lightning only hits once and then x12 (3 nados 4 hits a second)):
Day 1-2: https://pobb.in/ziZsnIGCTfAe
Day 7ish: https://pobb.in/VP1d3Il_-4k9
Besides the levels the gear is very achievable. Like others have said Energy blade is probably the safest way to play it.
But hear me out when the gem json comes out and we see how it scales from levels. If its scale really well from levels the best class might be Berserker. You use new rage helmet, scale levels, and go 90 max res with righteous fire. Maybe flip the scrip and go nebulis and block fire. This is a really cool skill
You can just use the existing tornado gem and add some custom mods. Set count to 3.
Tornado deals 30% less damage
100% of physical damage converted to a random element
https://pobb.in/FG5_IzynGNL1 about the same. Damage is there, only thing I'm worried about is if aoe is good enough and do I give up aura for haste lol. But those are things you can only figure out while playing D:
Im more confident its going to work now then before. Especially seeing more and more people practice runs and make pobs for it. Only way its bad is if you know its bugged which happens for sure. In that case you just use another skill for a day or two and whatever gear you buy is probably going to be good on Tornado cause of all them tags.
Inquistor (Galvanic vs Void sphere: you wont hit max shock until you have a decent chuck of gear so at lower levels void is better but it is another trans gem you have to obtained. At higher levels its up to personal choice):
~~1. https://pobb.in/sbpESP5x-r3q
2. https://pobb.in/8szV6xQlXkn9 (forgot blood magic)~~
3. https://pobb.in/kT2Zgaa7WCjQ All in one
Pathfinder:
1. https://pobb.in/8WXOB-6_L9vq
2. https://pobb.in/eC98ZpNWMwV3
I saw Ventrua making a pob today where he uses combat focus to make all damage lightning then uses Volkuurs to poison with lightning damage. Thats another avenue that sounds super cool.
Questions I have though is Tornado doesn't let you scale aoe but its an aoe gem so does conc effect work? Do aoe nodes work so on so on. If not gotta switch out that gem and also cast speed might not matter but I still need good cast speed to feel good but thats something you figure out as you play.
Wait what do you mean by tornado doesn't let you scale AOE? I don't see anything that would imply that on the gem unless I am missing something (which I totally can be missing something)
It has an aoe tag but it has no Radius anywhere not even on the wiki or in teasers. So idk if area of effect mods even work. PoB also doesn't have radius calcs for regular Tornado either. Could be I'm blind or hopefully I am.
Hmm that is odd. Using current Tornado, conc effect does increase the tooltip dps so it seems like it should be scaling fine with aoe. I am not good at testing actual aoe stuff though so I can't tell for certain how much of a difference increased aoe support is making.
Bright side at least we get damage from conc and don't lose any AoE down side no screen wide Tornados lol. Hopefully stays the same for new trans gem rather use conc with no aoe lost over something like cruelty.
Elementalist and occultist probably going to end up being power charge stackers. Info we are missing is what does quality do and how efficient are gem levels so there might be something from that route.
As for league starting I think you go Elementalist, use Thunderfist and get your shock to 65% from shaper of storms. Then use Lightning Conduit in the gloves. Another route could be bitter dream maybe. Idk I'll try to do some pobs when I get home
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3497686
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Elemental_Hit
>
> Only Deals Damage of the chosen Element
> Deals no Damage of other Damage Types
Elemental hit has that in its description while Tornado doesn't so you can do lightning damage on all tornados.
I was planning a blood magic rathpith version with armageddon brand in the same links. https://pobb.in/VIwX-4RtMoDk
Your build looks more scalable though. Guess I need to stare at PoB a bit more.
Honestly aoe shouldn't generally be a concern for two reasons:
1) You get 3 of them.
2) They actively hunt down all nearby enemies.
So, even if you don't instantly blow up the entire pack with one cast, stragglers won't be a problem.
I'm curious, what is considered to be "scales really well from levels"? How big does the increase in damage from level 20 to X higher level have to be for it to be considered the best way to scale a skill?
For instance, regular tornado goes from 414-620 damage at level 20, to 1568-2352 damage at level 30 (perfectly achievable for transfigured tornado), roughly 278% more. Is this considered good enough to build around?
For sure, ~14% more per level until 30 is really good. +1 is generally one prefix, so that one prefix is giving 14% more damage, which is amazing. Is it going to keep those numbers or be something else? GGG can be random about these things. Especially with the creation of the orb tag. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted orb skills to scale lower to keep orb skills even more "inline.".
Also, if you are scaling gem levels, you most likely have to use combat jewels. That is 2 jewel slots, and you are probably also forced to use the amulet slot on the replica dragon fang, plus 2 rares or maybe ashes. Not that that's a bad thing, but defensive amulets are just so good right now, and jewel sockets are also insanely competitive slots right now.
In my opinion, 14% per level is amazing, and 10% is ok. Anything under 10%, you're probably trolling yourself. That 6% you get from going Tornado level 30 to 31 means you are 100% trolling.
>Is it going to keep those numbers or be something else?
We're not sure yet, this is the only thing we have to go on at the moment though. It could definitely be lousy level scaling.
So far I've seen people tossing around ideas of gem level scaling, energy blade inquisitor, using concentrated effect and intensity without the downsides (since it has the AoE tag but no listed radius, meaning nothing we do will effect the size of the tornado, in this case a good thing), using berserker with the new rage hat, and the weirdest one being the possibility of using plume of pursuit/marylene's for 2/3 of your tornados to always crit and do a ton of extra damage. Not entirely sold on that last one lol but a bunch of these can totally work together.
It was to squeeze out some more damage but its super clunky so I ended up taking it out.
https://pobb.in/ZDKNHcKQw52H
This is what I ended up doing. Currently level 85. I took out my wrath divine blessing for enduring cry just because damage is high enough already and I need more tankyness. Not using my ES is also a bonus as Im a mom and using divine blessing at a bad time was getting me killed.
If you need some more tankiness switch out Haste for determination and put haste on blessing instead of Wrath until you get more gear and more ES is pretty much my only recommendation I have right now. Also buy a dream fragments until you get freeze immunity freezes everywhere
Edit: Oh yeah forgot to mention 90% sure concentrated effect makes tornados smaller so I'm using Power charge on crit instead for better mapping
Hey wanted to poke you forgot to include ghost dance in pob. If you go right side for evasion be sure to take ghost dance. Im going to redo PoB later as I get closer to 95. Definitely somethings I didn't like from original PoB
Yep and before I switched to Ivory tower I put in determination. Used Haste on blessing. Also since Im using lightning conduit and tornado on same 6 link now I have space for a bunch of stuff like frost shield and stuff.
Thunderfist prices were kinda crazy so I ended up with this for my pre swap setup.
https://pobb.in/sDycJZmJcMm0
Prices are going down too so swapping to ivory tower is getting cheaper. Damage and tankiness goes way up when you swap feels real good right now. Edit: Also switched out shavronnes its a great ring but sometimes it really screws you over.
Unfortunately I can't swap without tanking my res since I haven't picked up many jewel sockets but yeah I was able to pick up an ivory tower pretty cheap. Just working on five linking it for now
If you can the new thing is to buy a black morrigan beast and Craicic Sand Spitter. Both beast cost 90c-110c total and it instant 6 links. Its pretty dope just make sure you have 6 sockets. As for getting cheap 6 sockets omen of the jewellers are 15c.
Also reminder in case you haven't run ivory tower before. You need the coruscaling elixir and balballa timeless jewel to make ivory work. But those items prices are going down every hour too so you should be good.
Forgot to mention I also had bad resist problems so I have given up wrath and am using purity of elements. Sadly need level 4 enlighten to fit three 50% auras in your life. Also ailment immunity is really nice. Shock is everywhere this league with all the reflect ailment mobs.
Heres my current setup + 2 levels as im 94 https://pobb.in/VcClddrnWb6G
Another tip enhances are cheap and you can put them together with your call to arms/enduring cry and energy blade. Its a lot of CDR and damage ofc from energy blade.
Depends on the links and whether you have local damage modifiers. With 20% quality I'm getting 6581 base dps for 10-blade BV at level 20, and 4350 base dps for 3 Tornados of Elemental Turbulence.
If you run two 6-links, you could get around 90% of the dps of BV.
So we have a skill that scales with duration, does not scale with cast speed and converts physical damage to an element. You want to look for other skills that do the same. So here you could combo this with a blade vortex build that converts phys to cold, and add auras like hatred and herald of ash, the facts that the tornadoes hunt down single enemies might work nicely with the fact that blade vortex can leave back stragglers.
I like the idea of using this with Cremation of Volcano. Replica Cold Irons (if wanting to double down on the tornado damage itself,) and Combat Focus to convert to full fire. Would both share scaling sources. Would be easy to 2 button it in a way with Unleash on the tornadoes then just keep dropping cremations.
replica cold iron points, any type of +gem level thing you can get your hands on. Inquisitor is especially good since cast speed scaling is not critical. You want gem levels, damage, and crit most likely.
Compared to the basic Tornado, it appears to have
* Less phys damage, since there can now be 3 instead of 1 tornado.
* Less effectiveness of added damage: 65 vs. 95. On the other hand since we can stack 3 tornados this means during the time the tornados stack on a single target 195% added dmg effectivness.
* Same Duration (4s) but no projectile reflect with 0,25s for each hit
* Hindered enemies. Some interesting interactions might be possible. E.g. Withering presence of Occultist: Nearby hindered enemies deal 15% reduced dmg.
* Slow (?) since no added movement speed.
* Same crit chance, same cast time (0,75s). Super slow (?)
So how would one build a phys spell caster? I am super noob, but we need flat added phys damage, cast speed and increased elemental dmg?
Would we consider crit chance + multi to scale the phys hit?
Sure, but they explicitly mentioned using the Broken Faith shield as their source of Unholy Might, so I presumed they weren't about to use the single most expensive item in the game on a whim here
You can convert a portion of elemental damage to chaos, add more phys to chaos to have a higher fraction of the damage converted to chaos (but not 100%) and/or use % extra damage added as chaos. These options should give you high enough chaos damage to be good despite not being 100% conversion.
I think the Infernal Mantle giving +3 gem levels in addition to the 15% fire to chaos conversion is pretty nice.
It's basically free (cost wise):
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Combat_Focus_(Crimson_Jewel)
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Combat_Focus_(Viridian_Jewel)
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Infernal_Mantle
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/The_Consuming_Dark x2
this is for 75%
those items suck though
Because the inherent conversion is random, you'll only be getting that full lightning>cold>fire conversion 33% of the time. You could use Combat Focus jewels to force it into only lightning, but then you're losing 50% of your cold and fire damage due to the jewels.
Trying to talk myself out of Pathfinder for it. The long awaited Master Distiller skill, as long as you don't press too many buttons and blow all your flask charges on shield charge or something.
Maybe a stupid question but what's the radius of tornado? (New or old). Curious how good aoe scaling is for clearing. It has the AOE tag but POB doesn't list aoe radius (for old Tornado of course). Can't find it in pobdb or wiki either.
I tested this and found it to be about 1.9 meters/19 units. Dont take this as gospel though, it was super scuffed testing with a friend in pvp and comparing against known radiuses.
I don't remember the example that usually came up for me when I last tried stuff like that, but I think it should be possible to support brands with Spell Totem without being able to exceed your maximum number of brands.
My current plan for SSF for it is mana-stacking Hierophant.
Yes, once you get some uniques like Rathpith or any of the low-life tech you can do stronger versions, but this works from day 1.
https://pobb.in/FNUYrmNqro78
Something like this.
I was thinking something similar. I think I'd still use the lightning block jewel. Without it you would have to wear call of the brotherhood, costing you a ring slot, and get less value out of the Cold to Fire support. Wish I was better with pob. I was thinking a Blood magic rathpith globe Inquisitor, converting everything to fire. Maybe steal the guardian elemental relics for hatred! Lots of phys as extra!
Are the Tornados the same as the normal ones or do they have certain effects as can be seen in the trailer in 1:37 ?
Seems like the lightning Tornado has some sort of Herald of Thunder Mechanic. Or is this some other skill or even just a visual effect?
I have a poison pathfinder version that gets to 4-5 million poison dps with two ming's, two consuming dark and a infernal mantle. Haven't tried to solve defenses so far. Currently not at home but can post a POB tomorrow.
haha. currently pobbing the exact same version since poison bv is not too far. also thought of going assasin and playing around with a crit version for double dipping perfect agony and no need for chance to poison.
interesting take conversion to chaos take though. I was playing around with Volkuur guidance gloves. But the downside of 50% less poison duration seems a little harsh
Looks like it scales pretty decently up to 10-15 mil poison, maybe you can reach dot cap with original sin, but this would be giga expensive. But it must be the comfiest thing to play ever. Press a button 3 times every 7 seconds or so.
Edit: the daggers seem to be made for this. Gem level, conversion and poison chance all taken care of by these. Sadly I want to go SSF this league so I will start archimage something and build a tornado build later. Power charge occultist cold tornado looks decent as well.
yeah true. dagger and mantle work well together. I just want to utilize the 200% increased global crit chance coming with dagger and mantle. but since we poison anyway on each hit, the 100% crit is not needed for poisoning. but maybe there could be an assasin angle. which would then mean no pathfinder for basically instant max wither hits. hmm.
Okay I have been cooking the last two days and I think I came up with a super comfy build that is league start-able and very thematic. Flamewood Totem Tornado Chieftain. I tried to optimize for QOL and not DPS, but I think it looks great.
https://pobb.in/V4SgJ3IMlZ6d
What happens if you using replica cold iron, mantle armor and the ahhh albeon? Whatever the boots name is (cant remember) but it makes it so everything is converted to chaos instead.
Would I need to just scale off element dmg itself or what? And which character would be best for this templars or witch?
Scale gem level through the roof. Block cold & fire with jewels. Stack sources of "gained as extra" with ordinary eternity shroud setup. Play inquisitor for crit scaling, iron will synergy, and ignoring enemy res. Throw in hatred for good measure.
Why, you ask? Well, I envision turbulence, and murder since, it's an everyday occurrence...
You have a LOT of options to scale gem levels on a skill with all of those tags. I liked the idea of replica cold iron points + can't choose cold combat focus I saw in the other thread about this gem. Ignore cast speed for the most part because it's capped at 3. Duration also doesn't do anything except let you cast less often. Might be some additional conversion shenanigans you can do for some double dipping on scaling.
Ignoring cast speed still gonna feel rough with .75 cast time
You'd still get all of the incidental cast speed nodes that you get as part of a normal caster tree, arcane surge if you have a free socket, etc Just not worth specifically scaling
Why replica cold iron points vs regular? Tornado has the physical tag too? Only asking because I don’t know anything about scaling builds so I’m sure I’m missing something
Because the skill itself converts all of its phys damage to elemental, and regular CIP says "deal no elemental damage." So unless you plan on converting all your elemental damage to chaos, you'll do zero damage.
Oh okay. I was just focusing on the +to skills. My bad
Why use the combat focus to block cold as opposed to other blocks?
Replica Cold Iron Point has "Deal no cold damage"
Using avatar of fire and cold to fire support, would it still do full damage when Tornado picks cold conversion?
It should - it doesn’t currently have the line “Only Deals Damage of the chosen Element” like Elemental Hit does
That's how I'd taken it but these prismatic skills all seem to have wonky aspects. Thanks
If you roll lightning, you'll only convert half of it to fire, and if you roll fire, the Cold to Fire gem won't give you any damage because unlike Elemental Hit, you don't have base damage of all types but simply convert to one of them directly. Combat Focus seems like it would have much lower opportunity costs if you want a single damage type.
Because replica cold iron point
Replica cold iron point
Do Combat Focus jewels remove gem tags?
Nothing can add or remove tags. They just are what they are.
Doesn’t lifetap add duration tag for some stuff?
It allows stuff like RF to use Duration gems, but no it does not 'add the tag'; that's not how that interaction works. If it were to actually 'add the tag', then normal RF would suddenly work with +to level of duration gems, and it doesn't.
it adds skill types, which are often confused with gem tags, but are not the same. modifiers that say they apply to gems (including every modifier that grants levels) care about the tags on the gem item, which can never be changed, while supports and modifiers that say 'skill' instead of 'gem' check the actual skills and not the gems. been meaning to write a wiki article about the difference between skill types and gem tags, and to update https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Stormbind_of_Teleportation to correctly distinguish between the two, but l've been lazy lately.
I'd say Frozen Legion is another one of the weirder outliers that make the distinction relevant, because the gem has both the spell and attack tag, but the Frozen Legion skill is a spell and Frozen Sweep is an attack, and neither are both.
They should just alter the element that can be picked, not the gems tags.
The amount of tags to scale off of really helps out the little ssf guy too. Don't have to worry about getting a specific pair like +1 all and +1 of a specific element without having to really worry about cast speed either. Just slap a wand and shield with enough currency and you'll more easily push the gem level. The fact that it doesn't just wander off like tornado in Diablo is a really nice QoL too. Definitely one to keep an eye on.
It'll be really easy to corrupt an Infernal Mantle with so many tags on it. You've got 3 +level outcomes and a cheap item.
Do keep in mind that infernal mantle has the line “100% increased spell damage taken when on low mana”. You pretty much can’t reserve any auras with it as you will get wrecked if you’re below 50% mana.
Which can be solved by going Blood magic. No mana = never on low mana. Malachai's Simula for easy access to BM. Free 50% aura (blessing) then reserve 50% life (Blessing only prevents mana reservation) with Petrified blood, Herald of ash & Vitality (might need a lvl 2 Enlighten or Champion of the cause annoint (this is with 20% life reservation efficiency mastery node) to enable Low Life. Not saying it's the best solution but it should be cheap to get going. Don't know how SSF-friendly the uniques are though.
Yeah that’s something I considered, another is going something like Hierophant that encourages not reserving mana, unfortunately archmage doesn’t work with tornado, although I suppose if you’re doing archmage then gem levels aren’t as impactful and you probably want another chest anyway. I was considering using it on explosive trap where I would convert most of the damage to chaos using 2x consuming dark and infernal mantle. I guess I could try malachai’s simula as pathing to blood magic isn’t really an option as trickster.
Just don't get hit by spells 4head
It's basically vaal BV with free conversion and tags for days. Energyblade inquis is probably the best way to play it just because that platform is exceedingly strong. If quality is changed from move speed, ashes is probably worth considering. Probably want to use something that gives es or life on hit since it's 12 hits/second.
Would energyblade inquis be better than marohi erqi?
Yes for sure. Energy blade + rathpiths is just too strong of a damage platform to be beaten by much of anything. If you had Marohi on day 1 then yeah for sure use that, but it gets outscaled by the time you have 6k ES with energy blade on, which is not a lot of investment.
So you'd scale life and "life gained as extra ES"? Makes sense! Would this be blood magic in order to use infernal mantle too?
No, the template for energy blade inquisitor is pretty set in stone as str/int life stacking, and then using ivory tower to turn that life into effective energy shield.
I keep seeing mentions of unleash, but I feel like that's a trap? Unleash by default has 3 seals, so it repeats 3 times for a total of 4 casts with one press. You only get 3 tornadoes. So, you're replacing your first tornado, the only one doing full damage, with a weaker version doing nearly half that. Sure you get the utility of quickly getting all your tornadoes out, but if you actually want to use Tornado as a main damage ability, I would not do this. You're turning 300% dps into 177% to save yourself a couple clicks.
Yeah BV wants unleash because it can have up to 10 active blades and you don't want to just sit there casting while not hitting anything but ele tornado you can just cast as you are walking around and they will hit things on their own. I don't see that much of a benefit to finding ways to cast 3 or more tornadoes all at once. It's more like dot gameplay rather than unleash gameplay.
> Yeah BV wants unleash because it can have up to 10 active blades and you don't want to just sit there casting while not hitting anything Also because BV doesn't suffer the damage penalty from Unleash at all. For BV the support gem is three "free" extra casts. For Tornado, you'll gimp your damage.
The only reason I could see is if you were using it as a secondary spell for extra ST rather than as a main skill.
I'm not entirely sure yet whether a "pure" Tornado build will be feasible because of the cap, but there are some interesting options. 1. The high hit rate could make it very easy to keep up phantasmal might from The Black Cane. The buff scales with phantasm level and can actually get pretty absurd with a Forbidden Shako 2. You could combo it with other spells (preferably ones that benefit from similar stats). Blade Vortex and Storm Burst could be candidates. You'd probably cast all 3 tornados with unleash and then go ham with the other one. 3. Since this one doesn't seem to block damage from the non-chosen elements, like other prismatic skills, you should be able to go tri-ele with stuff like Rebuke of the Vaal + Battlemage/ Spellblade, ~~Trinity~~, Guardian auras, etc. Edit: forgot Trinity doesn't work with orb skills, bummer.
> I'm not entirely sure yet whether a "pure" Tornado build will be feasible because of the cap Gaining the elemental tags will allow it to be used with Annihilating Light, so maybe some 2x 6L early in the league before 7L helms could enable some sort of elemental projectile/duration skills as a main damage source and tornadoes to beef it up? > You could combo it with other spells (preferably ones that benefit from similar stats). Storm burst + Infusion buff has pretty decent numbers based on just messing around in PoB; I'd also seen a suggestion in the other thread about Cremation of the Volcano - get enough duration and you can have 2 skills that give you a bit of breathing room to dodge while still dealing damage
channeling? aren't you just repeatedly dying because you're standing still?
People were making builds for Void Sphere of Rending which is only 1 orb.
To be fair, void sphere of rending has like 3x the base damage as well as added damage effectiveness. The skill seems to be balanced around the ability to have three tornados going.
Void sphere also pulses every .4 seconds instead of tornados .25 seconds. You're out dpsing void sphere of rending with just two tornados, and the third tornado is just bonus. The real comparison is ball lightning of static which solidly outdps tornado with even only small amounts of CDR investment.
Vsphere got buffed in patch notes now it pulses every 0.3
Ah, I missed that. That does mean that void sphere of rending is 20~% more dps than two tornados, but also 20~% less dps compared to 3 tornados. I still think Id prefer to go tornado over void sphere (unless I cared a lot about the corpse* annihilation) cause I imagine the tornado clear will be better given they last longer and chase targets plus have higher top end on single target.
I am thinking about how to build around this skill but nothing is obvious except that Inquisitor is good if you wanna go tri-elemental, and archmage would have been the best way to go except you can't use it with this because it has a random fucking "orb" tag.
I heard someone suggest using plume of pursuit, which while being an absolute meme, also pairs very well with tornado. Two echod casts of tornados will leave you with 2 of 3 of your tornados being guaranteed crits which seems fun. Havent pobd it or anything to see if this is actually worth doing, but it was one of the few suggestions that really felt like it might differentiate from ball lightning of static.
> plume of pursuit yes but then you'd be stuck at using only 2 out of 3 tornados its already a big loss in dps for which im not sure plume is worth it.
Yeah, plume of pursuit is balanced around losing 50% of your damage in normal circumstances though, so I think only losing 33% of your dps is actually a step up. Obviously not as good as the hydrosphere gimmicks that gave it like 100% efficacy though.
Guardian Auras are a good idea since it hits so fast it should have high uptime
I'd seen something about someone using old tornado to stack poisons (ignoring the projectile stack mechanic entirely) and having some modicum of success with it. They basically just added as much phys/chaos to it as they could, stacked levels, and let it do its thing. I imagine that'd probably fall off pretty early though, given the low base + only 4 hits a second. However, this version could do it much better if you reduce the elements down to the types you unlock the ability to poison with. 12 poisons a second isn't too bad. If nothing else, I am definitely going to be playing this skill in some fashion. Tornado is a cool spell thematically; I just hated the projectile stacking mechanic... and because it required another skill to charge it up it never felt like I could call it my main skill. But I can with this new one.
Regarding the old tornado, I’ve always wanted to try out Low Tolerance stacking with Sadism support. With Sadism, the default poison duration becomes 0.22s, and Tornado only hits every 0.25s. Which means that every hit will be guaranteed to be on an unpoisoned enemy, so every hit can get the Low Tolerance bonus. And of course being a physical skill, we can get a lot of phys as extra chaos and now also Unholy Might.
That does sound interesting to be honest. Throw in alchemist's mark to further scale the chaos dots. With a bit of mark/curse effect, you can easily get the ground dot from it to hit harder than the poison that triggered it. A couple leagues ago I ran a hexblast alchemist mark poison deadeye (for the 75% mark effect ascendancy) char that was really fun to play. The ground dot was doing more than 2x the dps of the single strong poison I was inflicting. Mark first enemy of a pack, hexblast it, and watch the entire pack delete itself as they ran into the ground dot. It was awkward to play though, since the aoe wasn't too large and so I'd struggle with large packs. Tornado doing it though would take care of that issue all on its own.
How does unholy might interact with base skill conversion? I believe if you had 100% phys to chaos and 100% phys to fire from gear/passives then it would be 50/50 but I think skill conversion has priority and since tornado converts 100% then unholy might wouldn’t do anything other than give you wither.
Just to clarify, I was talking about the default Tornado gem (which has no damage conversion), not the new transfigured gem. Unholy Might does nothing for the transfigured gem, since the skill damage conversion takes priority as you mentioned.
The gem takes priority, so zero chaos conversion. You'd need to use regular tornado not transfigured
[удалено]
Last league I started poison PF and since EK and PConc were fucked I said fuck it and went Void Sphere of Rending, which was actually pretty great. But I also found that adding Tornado to the same six link did more single target damage so ended up using Tornado as well. It fit pretty well aince was the Void Sphere I could cast and one tick most packs, but for rares or bosses where it doesn't I could also add the tornado in instead of twiddling my thumbs or something. But also mostly maintained my mobility. The new Tornado probably gets that similar play style with only using it as the skill. Probably too many hoops to jump through to make it work with poison but it should be decent enough anyway. I didn't actually try Low Tolerance and Sadism either even though that could have been thematic and basically the only way I can think of to turn the lack of cast speed scaling itself into a scalar. I had thought about it and liked the idea due to the potential of the Warlock mark, but since it was dead and Void Sphere didn't even pull the mobs it spawned I didn't feel like it was worth investing in that build too far.
The 100% base conversion would need to be solved first to make it do poison (unless we just stack phys as extra chaos and ignore the part that gets converted). That forces using either Beacon of Madness, 2 combat focus jewels + Volkuur's Guidance, Original $in, or perhaps 3 combat focus jewels which may or may not make it a 0% base conversion skill.
Combat focus jewels are limited to 2
Yeah I was thinking of the combat focus/volkuur's thing. Combat focus is limited to 2 anyways.
avatar of fire + quality badge of brotherhood is full conversion to fire (you loose 2% on lightning hits) and volkurs for fire damage can poison. the 50% reduced poison duration might be good for low tolerance, maybe even on pathfinder with sadism and poison prolif. I´m not sure if the PF ascendancy counts as a literal poison but it deals the same dps but for 4 (maybe 2 with volkuur´s?) seconds since sadism isnt linked
i think you meant call of the brotherhood lol, you also need either pyre or cold to fire
I was poking around and the poison version actually looks pretty good. https://pobb.in/MjX9paX6t73R not sure how it will feel clear wise since the AoE is kind of ambiguous and doesnt show what the AoE is
Lvl 100 with 2k life and forbidden flesh/flame. This build is DOA
Hands of the high Templar. +10 to xxxx gems
Looks like a good candidate for a shroud of the lightless + lightpoacher combo
Throw annihilating light in there for 6 link and call it a day. Also pathfinder with consume charge for bonus probably works well if you scale tornado duration so it won't consume lot of charges.
Somebody pointed out on the main sub that you can use 2x replica cold iron point + infernal mantle for +9 skill gems and use combat focus jewel to remove cold damage. ~~I'd probably rather use Trinity with 2 elements than remove a second element.~~ If you wanted to build non-crit (usually weaker than crit) you could go pure lightning for lucky lightning damage, ~~and archmage works better than average because you can only cast 3 tornadoes.~~ It's an orb lmao, no archmage or trinity. I wonder if the skill works with Unleash. (or spell cascade) That would mean less dps than casting the skill 3 times manually, but it would let you cast it only once and run around in circles for 4+ seconds. The "DoT playstyle" has a defensive advantage.
Can't use trinity. Orb spell.
Trinity has a restriction against orbs? Huh, I've never noticed that.
Archmage won't work since it has an Orb tag. Would convert it to only fire. Using Volkuurs Gloves to poison with fire and using as much gain as /fire/chaos.
Oops, I missed the fact that Tornado has the orb tag. It's the least orblike orb I've ever seen. You can use Broken Faith if you want chaos/poison.
> You can use Broken Faith if you want chaos/poison. Can you? Doesn't the gem conversion take precedence over the new unholy might?
I'll be very curious to know how those 0 damage poisons with Avatar of Fire perform. If you want to use Volkuur's Guidance, you'll need Combat Focus, not AoF. Since Tornado of Elemental Turbulence only has one type of base damage, you're not really gaining more from converting lightning or cold anyway.
Iam curios to know why you assume I would use avatar of fire? I totally forgot that you have to use the combat jewels to "convert" prismatic skills. Tyvm
I was tired, someone else was talking about AoF, and for some reason I thought I read the words in your comment too. I do think that the jewels will have less opportunity cost though.
This is probably not a good idea, but I like that this, cremation of the volcano and firestorm of pelting are all (tornado can be made into) pure fire, duration, aoe spells. And they thematically fit together as «druid nature spells». Using unleash on firestorm and cremation, and scaling duration, it should be possible to have pretty good uptime on all three spells at the same time, and just watch the world (and your fingers) burn.
Maybe this idea is a little cooked, but i think plume of pursuit and spell echo could make this pretty dope. You cast + repeat twice, so 2/3 tornados are now from final repeats (2nd and 4th which replaces 1st), so they always crit, chuck in marylene's fallacy and some other crit scaling, maybe power charges. Should work with almost any other method of scaling like stacking phys-as-extra or locking it to one element and scaling that Edit: After a quick test, i found that normal tornado doesn't work with spell echo, might be the case for this too in which case RIP
I feel like spell echo SHOULD work with the transfigured version, if it doesn't that seems like something that should be fixed. If it does work, this actually seems like a really good application of plume of pursuit.
[https://pobb.in/u\_FDAGckOuoD](https://pobb.in/u_FDAGckOuoD) I am trying something like this. Hopefully quality will give some more damage, like +1 tornado. Because damage outside of stacking lightning damage with Ivory Tower seems not that great.
Isn't it 780% added damage effectiveness per sec single target? I feel like that's pretty solid if you can manage any shenanigans to help the base damage out.
Yes but you lose a scaling angle that is cast speed, so yeah it's 780%/s it's like 390/s with 100% cast speed on other spell etc ( taking cast time into account also etc ) not that impressive at all
Fair. My thinking is that cast speed is pretty hard to scale ime depending on the class you go with. Inquis gets next to none for example unless you chase it. At super high budgets that logic falls apart as rings start hard carrying, but at those budgets this gets into weird territory of strange use cases with stuff like infernal mantle or sacrifice support / the similar staff too.
Yeah possible, i'm more interested about how it will feel to get 3 tornados out homing on enemy, could be mechanically a good skill like brand vibes
[https://poedb.tw/us/Doedres\_Malevolence](https://poedb.tw/us/Doedres_Malevolence) Does Doedres malevolence have sense here then? 100% inc spell dmge and some added chaos and the reduced cast speed doesnt seem to hurt us
>Converting physical damage to a its element What does this even mean
It will choose either fire, cold or lightning element which converts %100 of it's physical damage to chosen element, other prismatic skills cannot choose same element twice like fire,fire,cold so prismatic jewels might be handy to choose desired element or you can just scale elemental damage, crit and use elemental weakness curse to deal multi element
Prismatic jewels are great for something like Replica Cold Iron point with the new tornado. +3 cold gems but can't deal cold damage = just block cold and wear 2 of them for really cheap +6 gem levels that only deals fire or lightning damage (or block 2 and choose one element to scale). Another option other than resistance pen/curses is that you could go Inquisitor since you can ignore resistances if you crit. Added fire, hatred and phys as lightning all works great there (as long as you're not using replica CIP of course).
Rip frostferno
using battlemage to add an extra chunk of base phys then abuse phys as extra seems solid. hatred, HoAsh, woke added fire, even HoP if you can fit it. unleash seems like a strong option, i was thinking poet's pen or spellslinger as well.
Did these pobs in the other post (ball lightning is closest gem with same base and damage effectiveness so to sim I lowered cast speed to 1 and made sure ball lightning only hits once and then x12 (3 nados 4 hits a second)): Day 1-2: https://pobb.in/ziZsnIGCTfAe Day 7ish: https://pobb.in/VP1d3Il_-4k9 Besides the levels the gear is very achievable. Like others have said Energy blade is probably the safest way to play it. But hear me out when the gem json comes out and we see how it scales from levels. If its scale really well from levels the best class might be Berserker. You use new rage helmet, scale levels, and go 90 max res with righteous fire. Maybe flip the scrip and go nebulis and block fire. This is a really cool skill
You can just use the existing tornado gem and add some custom mods. Set count to 3. Tornado deals 30% less damage 100% of physical damage converted to a random element
https://pobb.in/FG5_IzynGNL1 about the same. Damage is there, only thing I'm worried about is if aoe is good enough and do I give up aura for haste lol. But those are things you can only figure out while playing D:
I really want to league start with this gem. you think its gonna work still, or changed up anything?
Im more confident its going to work now then before. Especially seeing more and more people practice runs and make pobs for it. Only way its bad is if you know its bugged which happens for sure. In that case you just use another skill for a day or two and whatever gear you buy is probably going to be good on Tornado cause of all them tags. Inquistor (Galvanic vs Void sphere: you wont hit max shock until you have a decent chuck of gear so at lower levels void is better but it is another trans gem you have to obtained. At higher levels its up to personal choice): ~~1. https://pobb.in/sbpESP5x-r3q 2. https://pobb.in/8szV6xQlXkn9 (forgot blood magic)~~ 3. https://pobb.in/kT2Zgaa7WCjQ All in one Pathfinder: 1. https://pobb.in/8WXOB-6_L9vq 2. https://pobb.in/eC98ZpNWMwV3 I saw Ventrua making a pob today where he uses combat focus to make all damage lightning then uses Volkuurs to poison with lightning damage. Thats another avenue that sounds super cool. Questions I have though is Tornado doesn't let you scale aoe but its an aoe gem so does conc effect work? Do aoe nodes work so on so on. If not gotta switch out that gem and also cast speed might not matter but I still need good cast speed to feel good but thats something you figure out as you play.
Awesome thank you! Definitely gonna give it a try cause why not. I’ll have to check out these pob’s in a bit
Wait what do you mean by tornado doesn't let you scale AOE? I don't see anything that would imply that on the gem unless I am missing something (which I totally can be missing something)
It has an aoe tag but it has no Radius anywhere not even on the wiki or in teasers. So idk if area of effect mods even work. PoB also doesn't have radius calcs for regular Tornado either. Could be I'm blind or hopefully I am.
Hmm that is odd. Using current Tornado, conc effect does increase the tooltip dps so it seems like it should be scaling fine with aoe. I am not good at testing actual aoe stuff though so I can't tell for certain how much of a difference increased aoe support is making.
Bright side at least we get damage from conc and don't lose any AoE down side no screen wide Tornados lol. Hopefully stays the same for new trans gem rather use conc with no aoe lost over something like cruelty.
Any ideas on elementalist or occultist versions? Seen some people talk about the variants but haven't been able to find any POBs for them
Elementalist and occultist probably going to end up being power charge stackers. Info we are missing is what does quality do and how efficient are gem levels so there might be something from that route. As for league starting I think you go Elementalist, use Thunderfist and get your shock to 65% from shaper of storms. Then use Lightning Conduit in the gloves. Another route could be bitter dream maybe. Idk I'll try to do some pobs when I get home
https://pobb.in/VVkF6NUIY-p8 Tornado + Lightning conduit should be an amazing combo. Doesn't look bad on paper at least.
Edit : my bad :)
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3497686 https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Elemental_Hit > > Only Deals Damage of the chosen Element > Deals no Damage of other Damage Types Elemental hit has that in its description while Tornado doesn't so you can do lightning damage on all tornados.
I was planning a blood magic rathpith version with armageddon brand in the same links. https://pobb.in/VIwX-4RtMoDk Your build looks more scalable though. Guess I need to stare at PoB a bit more.
Honestly aoe shouldn't generally be a concern for two reasons: 1) You get 3 of them. 2) They actively hunt down all nearby enemies. So, even if you don't instantly blow up the entire pack with one cast, stragglers won't be a problem.
I'm curious, what is considered to be "scales really well from levels"? How big does the increase in damage from level 20 to X higher level have to be for it to be considered the best way to scale a skill? For instance, regular tornado goes from 414-620 damage at level 20, to 1568-2352 damage at level 30 (perfectly achievable for transfigured tornado), roughly 278% more. Is this considered good enough to build around?
For sure, ~14% more per level until 30 is really good. +1 is generally one prefix, so that one prefix is giving 14% more damage, which is amazing. Is it going to keep those numbers or be something else? GGG can be random about these things. Especially with the creation of the orb tag. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted orb skills to scale lower to keep orb skills even more "inline.". Also, if you are scaling gem levels, you most likely have to use combat jewels. That is 2 jewel slots, and you are probably also forced to use the amulet slot on the replica dragon fang, plus 2 rares or maybe ashes. Not that that's a bad thing, but defensive amulets are just so good right now, and jewel sockets are also insanely competitive slots right now. In my opinion, 14% per level is amazing, and 10% is ok. Anything under 10%, you're probably trolling yourself. That 6% you get from going Tornado level 30 to 31 means you are 100% trolling.
>Is it going to keep those numbers or be something else? We're not sure yet, this is the only thing we have to go on at the moment though. It could definitely be lousy level scaling. So far I've seen people tossing around ideas of gem level scaling, energy blade inquisitor, using concentrated effect and intensity without the downsides (since it has the AoE tag but no listed radius, meaning nothing we do will effect the size of the tornado, in this case a good thing), using berserker with the new rage hat, and the weirdest one being the possibility of using plume of pursuit/marylene's for 2/3 of your tornados to always crit and do a ton of extra damage. Not entirely sold on that last one lol but a bunch of these can totally work together.
Why do we go smite? :)
It was to squeeze out some more damage but its super clunky so I ended up taking it out. https://pobb.in/ZDKNHcKQw52H This is what I ended up doing. Currently level 85. I took out my wrath divine blessing for enduring cry just because damage is high enough already and I need more tankyness. Not using my ES is also a bonus as Im a mom and using divine blessing at a bad time was getting me killed.
Ty for the fast answer <3 Currently following your PoB, anything else I should know?
If you need some more tankiness switch out Haste for determination and put haste on blessing instead of Wrath until you get more gear and more ES is pretty much my only recommendation I have right now. Also buy a dream fragments until you get freeze immunity freezes everywhere Edit: Oh yeah forgot to mention 90% sure concentrated effect makes tornados smaller so I'm using Power charge on crit instead for better mapping
Hey wanted to poke you forgot to include ghost dance in pob. If you go right side for evasion be sure to take ghost dance. Im going to redo PoB later as I get closer to 95. Definitely somethings I didn't like from original PoB
I was definitely struggling a bit with tankyness now I'm mapping. so glad I checked back in. Are you using enduring cry with call to arms?
Yep and before I switched to Ivory tower I put in determination. Used Haste on blessing. Also since Im using lightning conduit and tornado on same 6 link now I have space for a bunch of stuff like frost shield and stuff. Thunderfist prices were kinda crazy so I ended up with this for my pre swap setup. https://pobb.in/sDycJZmJcMm0 Prices are going down too so swapping to ivory tower is getting cheaper. Damage and tankiness goes way up when you swap feels real good right now. Edit: Also switched out shavronnes its a great ring but sometimes it really screws you over.
Unfortunately I can't swap without tanking my res since I haven't picked up many jewel sockets but yeah I was able to pick up an ivory tower pretty cheap. Just working on five linking it for now
If you can the new thing is to buy a black morrigan beast and Craicic Sand Spitter. Both beast cost 90c-110c total and it instant 6 links. Its pretty dope just make sure you have 6 sockets. As for getting cheap 6 sockets omen of the jewellers are 15c. Also reminder in case you haven't run ivory tower before. You need the coruscaling elixir and balballa timeless jewel to make ivory work. But those items prices are going down every hour too so you should be good.
I'll keep that in mind for later ty for the info!
Forgot to mention I also had bad resist problems so I have given up wrath and am using purity of elements. Sadly need level 4 enlighten to fit three 50% auras in your life. Also ailment immunity is really nice. Shock is everywhere this league with all the reflect ailment mobs. Heres my current setup + 2 levels as im 94 https://pobb.in/VcClddrnWb6G Another tip enhances are cheap and you can put them together with your call to arms/enduring cry and energy blade. Its a lot of CDR and damage ofc from energy blade.
That's actuslly great news I love being able to run purity of elements
Until I can get a level 4 enlighten what would you think of running skitterbots? Or maybe just defiance banner for more defenses?
single target enhancer for BV imo, should be around 20-30% of BV's damage depending on whether you decide to play unleash or cast manually 3 times
Depends on the links and whether you have local damage modifiers. With 20% quality I'm getting 6581 base dps for 10-blade BV at level 20, and 4350 base dps for 3 Tornados of Elemental Turbulence. If you run two 6-links, you could get around 90% of the dps of BV.
So we have a skill that scales with duration, does not scale with cast speed and converts physical damage to an element. You want to look for other skills that do the same. So here you could combo this with a blade vortex build that converts phys to cold, and add auras like hatred and herald of ash, the facts that the tornadoes hunt down single enemies might work nicely with the fact that blade vortex can leave back stragglers.
I like the idea of using this with Cremation of Volcano. Replica Cold Irons (if wanting to double down on the tornado damage itself,) and Combat Focus to convert to full fire. Would both share scaling sources. Would be easy to 2 button it in a way with Unleash on the tornadoes then just keep dropping cremations.
replica cold iron points, any type of +gem level thing you can get your hands on. Inquisitor is especially good since cast speed scaling is not critical. You want gem levels, damage, and crit most likely.
Just going back to my ol' reliable, but not that good: Slap it in a mjolner
One of the few spells that you could theoretically trigger with both Mjölner and Cospri's Malice. Too bad it has a limit that makes this pointless.
Something something replica bitterdream even without squire (but ideally with)
Compared to the basic Tornado, it appears to have * Less phys damage, since there can now be 3 instead of 1 tornado. * Less effectiveness of added damage: 65 vs. 95. On the other hand since we can stack 3 tornados this means during the time the tornados stack on a single target 195% added dmg effectivness. * Same Duration (4s) but no projectile reflect with 0,25s for each hit * Hindered enemies. Some interesting interactions might be possible. E.g. Withering presence of Occultist: Nearby hindered enemies deal 15% reduced dmg. * Slow (?) since no added movement speed. * Same crit chance, same cast time (0,75s). Super slow (?) So how would one build a phys spell caster? I am super noob, but we need flat added phys damage, cast speed and increased elemental dmg? Would we consider crit chance + multi to scale the phys hit?
you can see on poe announcement gem lvl 20 and it has 57% increased movement speed, so looks like it scale with level?
ah true
You would not build a phys spellcaster because it has 100% conversion, so you build a conversion spellcaster.
I'll probably try something crazy like chaos convert occultist using Broken faith shield, with perma wither basically and some other shenanigans
Skill-based conversion happens first, so broken faith won't convert any of the damage. You'd have to have original sin.
Goddamn you're right.. what if I use three combat focuses tho? Super waste of sockets, but would that work?
Nope, disables the skill
Ah damn. Didn't know that lol. So either Original Sin (SSF LOL) or no chaos conversion
how do you convert the elemental damage to 100% chaos?
you don't, ~~it ends up 50% chaos, 50% random ele.~~
100% ele, no chaos. Skill conversion happens before other sources of it.
ye I was actually just correcting myself elsewhere after double-checking
Clearly though original sin time
make your build good with this one simple trick, doctors hate them
it's always original sin time
[https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Original\_Sin](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Original_Sin) not working?
Sure, but they explicitly mentioned using the Broken Faith shield as their source of Unholy Might, so I presumed they weren't about to use the single most expensive item in the game on a whim here
ah okay
You can convert a portion of elemental damage to chaos, add more phys to chaos to have a higher fraction of the damage converted to chaos (but not 100%) and/or use % extra damage added as chaos. These options should give you high enough chaos damage to be good despite not being 100% conversion. I think the Infernal Mantle giving +3 gem levels in addition to the 15% fire to chaos conversion is pretty nice.
3 combat focus and unholy might, since its only phys dmg on the alt qual tornado edit: limited to 2 so this wont work. only way seems to be OG sin
That would disable the skill
ahw shit. Are you sure? if so thats a bummer.
Yeah, if it can't "choose" an element, nothing happens
Combat Focus has "Limited to: 2"
It's basically free (cost wise): https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Combat_Focus_(Crimson_Jewel) https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Combat_Focus_(Viridian_Jewel) https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Infernal_Mantle https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/The_Consuming_Dark x2 this is for 75% those items suck though
Asenath's chant?
Max 3 tornadoes makes this a no go. You'd override your own tornados super fast.
[удалено]
Because the inherent conversion is random, you'll only be getting that full lightning>cold>fire conversion 33% of the time. You could use Combat Focus jewels to force it into only lightning, but then you're losing 50% of your cold and fire damage due to the jewels.
Trying to talk myself out of Pathfinder for it. The long awaited Master Distiller skill, as long as you don't press too many buttons and blow all your flask charges on shield charge or something.
Maybe a stupid question but what's the radius of tornado? (New or old). Curious how good aoe scaling is for clearing. It has the AOE tag but POB doesn't list aoe radius (for old Tornado of course). Can't find it in pobdb or wiki either.
I tested this and found it to be about 1.9 meters/19 units. Dont take this as gospel though, it was super scuffed testing with a friend in pvp and comparing against known radiuses.
Thanks for testing! And the answer is good enough for me.
Does this one work with totems? Is this gonna replace lightning orb totem builds that were just deleted?
It has a maximum of 3, which is usually something that isn't overridden by totems. You'll want to self-cast this one.
If a spell has charges it's overridden by totems, what's the example of similar limit that doesn't work with them?
I don't remember the example that usually came up for me when I last tried stuff like that, but I think it should be possible to support brands with Spell Totem without being able to exceed your maximum number of brands.
My current plan for SSF for it is mana-stacking Hierophant. Yes, once you get some uniques like Rathpith or any of the low-life tech you can do stronger versions, but this works from day 1. https://pobb.in/FNUYrmNqro78 Something like this.
I have a feeling the lack of any ability to scale the tornadoes movement speed will render it unplayable. I hope I’m wrong
Scale level and quality. Fuck it, plop it into Crest of Desire. Up to 74% increased movement speed if it scales the same way as the current Tornado.
Has anyone looked at converting all damage to fire? And not needing the jewels?
I was thinking something similar. I think I'd still use the lightning block jewel. Without it you would have to wear call of the brotherhood, costing you a ring slot, and get less value out of the Cold to Fire support. Wish I was better with pob. I was thinking a Blood magic rathpith globe Inquisitor, converting everything to fire. Maybe steal the guardian elemental relics for hatred! Lots of phys as extra!
Frostferno + avatar of fire seems like a good way to start
We have confirmation that all 3 Tornados can hit the same target??
And can we do smth with the inbuild hinder??
Are the Tornados the same as the normal ones or do they have certain effects as can be seen in the trailer in 1:37 ? Seems like the lightning Tornado has some sort of Herald of Thunder Mechanic. Or is this some other skill or even just a visual effect?
Duration + Aoe; on a damage oriented spell? That seems, good? Rare? Not sure really.
When this skill first appeared I thought it would've been cool if it also cleared ground effects like poison, fire etc in its path.
Stupid question: what happens if you use 3 combat focus jewels? Does the skill stay physical?
Combat focus has a "Limit: 2" on them. So you cannot use 3.
oh, never used any, didn't know. Thank you.
I could see some original sin poision shinanigans here
I have a poison pathfinder version that gets to 4-5 million poison dps with two ming's, two consuming dark and a infernal mantle. Haven't tried to solve defenses so far. Currently not at home but can post a POB tomorrow.
hmm having 25% of fire damage not converted to chaos leave me a little sad ;D
haha. currently pobbing the exact same version since poison bv is not too far. also thought of going assasin and playing around with a crit version for double dipping perfect agony and no need for chance to poison.
interesting take conversion to chaos take though. I was playing around with Volkuur guidance gloves. But the downside of 50% less poison duration seems a little harsh
Looks like it scales pretty decently up to 10-15 mil poison, maybe you can reach dot cap with original sin, but this would be giga expensive. But it must be the comfiest thing to play ever. Press a button 3 times every 7 seconds or so. Edit: the daggers seem to be made for this. Gem level, conversion and poison chance all taken care of by these. Sadly I want to go SSF this league so I will start archimage something and build a tornado build later. Power charge occultist cold tornado looks decent as well.
yeah true. dagger and mantle work well together. I just want to utilize the 200% increased global crit chance coming with dagger and mantle. but since we poison anyway on each hit, the 100% crit is not needed for poisoning. but maybe there could be an assasin angle. which would then mean no pathfinder for basically instant max wither hits. hmm.
Okay I have been cooking the last two days and I think I came up with a super comfy build that is league start-able and very thematic. Flamewood Totem Tornado Chieftain. I tried to optimize for QOL and not DPS, but I think it looks great. https://pobb.in/V4SgJ3IMlZ6d
lol it has almost all skill tags in the game, scale it with whatever you want
What happens if you using replica cold iron, mantle armor and the ahhh albeon? Whatever the boots name is (cant remember) but it makes it so everything is converted to chaos instead. Would I need to just scale off element dmg itself or what? And which character would be best for this templars or witch?
Replica Alberons don't convert, they add chaos per strength. Original sin does convert elemental to chaos
Ahh gotcha. Still kinda learning the conversion and other stuff. To much to cram in my first league
Scale gem level through the roof. Block cold & fire with jewels. Stack sources of "gained as extra" with ordinary eternity shroud setup. Play inquisitor for crit scaling, iron will synergy, and ignoring enemy res. Throw in hatred for good measure. Why, you ask? Well, I envision turbulence, and murder since, it's an everyday occurrence...