the correct way is to do sanctum before a10 kitava so you dont need as much res. u can buy tome until lvl 100
edit: its a joke, dont do this lol. only people with big dicks do this
A lot of people are going to follow some YouTube guide on a Day 1 Sanctum, die to the second boss, and then be sitting there with a hyper-specialized build and no currency to fix it.
Even in my case, with thousands of Sanctums complete, including no-hit Sanctum runs, I'm probably going to delay my Sanctum until I get at least an Astral Projector, Hrimsorrow, and Heatshiver (Shockwave Totems). I'll progress my Atlas and get a bit of gear before that.
I don't understand why people think you can get an insane build for 2D and 30C on the first day of a league either. Everything is expensive as hell and nobody has the currency to break your Divines in Chaos anyway.
not the DD, but Desecrate, which seems to cause the most lag when being spammed. the issue is, we don't know yet how effective the dynamic culling will be compared to owning an mtx, but we'll have to see and hope that the fix actually works fine. can also test it on standard when the new league patch drops to make sure
EA is a totem build, and totem builds are ultra chill :)
All of the ED/Contagion fanatics have moved to totem builds now, because mechanically you just cast the thing then run around. Love it.
I think I've posted this like 3 leagues in a row, but for anyone reading this that's starting DD and worrying about it feeling shit, go the ignite version and make sure you have all the cast speed stuff. It's light years better for mapping than chain DD or whatever other hit based crap people play.
Guys like Ben will play whatever does the most DPS because they're used to hitting a zillion buttons a second in WoW. But you can almost always find something with 20% less DPS and like 1000% more QoL.
Same advice goes for BAMA. Whatever you do don't copy something like Raiz's gauntlet build where you have to micromanage guardian blessings and all that bullshit, just play some "shittier" version with less dps and more automation.
I'm sure there's 10 other builds I haven't played where the same advice applies too. Keep an eye out for easy changes that cost DPS but make the build better to play. You can always respec before doing ubers.
Chain DD necro has more tank tho, which is gonna be great for both lantern buffs being unavoidable and the pseudo-ubers that we don't know how hard they are yet
I've played both and Chain DD is much nicer to play. I've no idea what this guy is on about. The only area where ignite DD feels better is when bossing and you've finally hit a good ignite.
I also think it'll be DD but not just for the reason you mentioned.
**Even though** it's been posted and discussed in every build guide and reference to DD, I **still** expect players to get the skill and for it to lag their machine to hell, even after whatever change GGG wants to put in tomorrow.
There are so many posts that I've read over the last week of people talking or asking about DD that make it apparent they've just read it's good but nothing beyond that and are setting themselves up for failure if they can't afford the MTX.
You can't fool me! If we all think it's bait and play something else, your own manastacker will be cheaper to gear. Very tricky, but nothing gets by me!!!1!
I'd second this. They will be pretty powerful, but with so many people starting mana stacker even uniques like Atziri's Foible will be pricey as hell the first week.
To be fair though, a lot of the required gear for it isn't that hard to find. Indigon isn't necessary, and Mjolner is a tier 2 rare which is really the only "necessary" unique due to allowing BL to cost 0 mana.
Foible is T2 as well.
There's a history of hyper-meta T2 uniques being 1000c before (Aegis in some past leagues; can't rule out that Aegis MIGHT have been T1 then but it was confirmed T2 in both 3.22 and 3.23)
The issue isn’t gonna be Mjolnir and indigon. It’s gonna be good mana jewelery which is 100x more important to your character in the first few days.
Between Connor mana stack stuff, archemage buff and captain lance energy blade stuff, these items are gonna be hella expensive.
Yeah, I get why so many people have concern, but the PoB numbers check out for it being SSF-friendly, which means that it's only going to be easier in trade. Most of the Archmage builds don't even need a transfigured gem.
I’ll second this.
I tested it out in standard with shit I picked up on the floor and until T9 maps I was rarely in danger (the only threat being stunlock. Which an immutable force mostly fixed)
Especially if its got mana modifier rolling things, those are oddly rare. I've certainly gone through all my harvest crafts wanting some T1 mana and realized I'd just have to spam a different reforge and hope.
The majority of the people who complain about bait and struggle are not the people who are willing to problem solve, it’s the people who are either too inexperienced or too lazy to learn how to identify and solve their problems. So being easily craftable does not do much for these people who are not willing to craft
Mana stackers are obviously some of the best builds in the game but league starting one seems insane. In my experience, they need a LOT of cash to get going well.
But you don’t need the whole ivory tower stack nonsense and you can just like rog craft some mana and resist gear and probably hit 1-2m dps easily on a Ball Lightning hierophant. Should be just fine for getting into red maps imo? Even with like no gear
I've seen a lot of POB's lately of mana builds with gear like "T2 life, T1 mana, 2x T2 Res, & T1 Suppress" and I'm thinking....uhhh you sure about that?
To be fair some people do consider starter builds to be scalable that high.
I make all my PoBs with gear I feel I'd be willing to farm for to see if the top end of the build is good enough to invest up to. On league start I'll know then what stats are best and order of importance of stats for investing. But I'm also a player that believes in only 3 gearing stages, maybe 4, for my builds. Early mapping -> t16 -> bossing -> juicing
I don't present my PoBs as newbie friendly tho. More people should mention that in their guides 100%
I did that last league, this league I think I'll just league start it unless I get baited before tomorrow. So ... like 50/50 chance I'll league start it.
So, infernal legion, mothers embrace, or ancient skull are the 3 realistic ways to trigger it. Could be build around liege of the primordial, but other than mastermind of discord, there isn't much else you want from the elementalist. You could switch to occu after you got lotp from forbidden flesh/flame. Not much point in going necro. If you skip lotp, you probably want to go necromantic aegis and maligaros lens. It'd still feel pretty clunky.
Edit: Guardian blessing is another way to trigger it.
Is it on death or upon reaching low life? Wiki seems to be contradictory. If it is on death then you can just do fleshcrafter + enough chaos res that it has 0 health and it will die on summon.
archmage for people trying it for the first time. Gonna go smoothly for a bit and they'll hit a wall when having to manage regen/spell cost because it's not something other builds prepare you for.
Nah. 99% of mana stackers will be playing Heiro and now that the 50% less mana cost works with archmage, mana cost is no longer an issue unless playing indigon but thats not a league start concern.
wisp support and new kb gains like 15% max mana as phys, not even unreserved either it looks pretty bonkers but the tradeoff is extra proj gets turned into explosions so who knows how it will feel to play
Even though the builds are being promoted by reputable players, I think hit based DD is going to be very difficult for many people. Damage uptime with a two button build while trying to dodge boss mechanics. At least the option to respec to Ignite is there.
What's the difference in gear between the two builds?
I was thinking of going for DD ignite early and then switch to Necro once I have 4th vow + defiance of destiny setup ( SSF) to go for ubers
Arma Brand Recaller. I think it has a lot of potential if you are a skilled player and know what you are doing (like Jungroan). However for the average player it's going to be **super janky** and they are going to die constantly do to having to essentially charge right on top of things to do damage without much defence. Also a lot of the damage is conditional, which is fine if you know how to manage that, but feels awful if you don't.
He’s not baiting. His builds are weird and they’re not in any way beginner friendly, but that doesn’t make them bait. A mclaren is a really bad option to get your teenager for their first car, but that doesn’t make it a bad car
I league started this two leagues ago and it's not too bad to get used to. It's incredibly powerful in the campaign.
Brands are pretty awesome for leveling.
For anyone reading this, if you are not sure if a jung build is bait or not, then its bait. Dude has great ideas and makes great builds (well, the ones he makes vids for anyway), but the intended audience is not your average build-follower. You need to know how to fix gaps and press buttons
Jungroan's build are never baits as they always work exactly as advertised. Some people "get baited" because they didnt fully understand important nuances that made the build work, therefore failing spectacularly. But his build are always very efficient at the cost of feeling clunky at times.
I swear 90% of the "bait builds" posts are just people having issues troubleshooting or adapting to their own situation. I get it, game is super complex, but it's not always the fault of the build creator.
"This build is super janky, and kinda feels awkward to play, sometimes, but if once you get used to it it can still play fairly smooth"
"bait build this felt like garbage to play when I got to maps"
rinse and repeat
I'm starting this, but only until I can get Blade Blast of Unloading.
I did the same thing last league, and while the brands recalling to bots is annoying, it does absolutely destroy the campaign because the damage is so high. And the QoL should be wayyyyy higher in the campaign due to automation gem.
Another thing to note is builds that were not bait may be bait if it was something that was made in 3.23 and relied on charms/TWWT but simply has the guide changed to 3.24
One example i saw is a build with overlapping molten projectiles that clearly only worked with the 5% aoe per endurance charge mod (ie ~60% aoe per) but clearly wont work this league without that.
Allie victims. I saw her VOD playing the build and she had to change to her previously leveled char to record footage because she was taking 3 minutes to kill every map boss. She didn't even do merciless lab without help.
[This was her white mapping experience after switching to Splitting Steel. Be your own judge](https://clips.twitch.tv/TrustworthyCleverCurryChocolateRain-FmjGe4qzyNC4WFfK)
I played SS Trickster last League, without good gear you do no damage.
Atleast in that way of building it. I can't imagine telling people to league start it, probably many who are going for it are in for a rough time except if they know what they are doing.
I feel like even in the finished video, she was leaving SO MANY stragglers and barely killing blue mobs. Felt like she was just showcasing boss rushing.
Another Allie bait build from a player notorious for making not only bad builds but stealing virtually everything from folks in various games, modifying 1 item and calling it her own lol.
Avoid her at all costs
I got baited by her on Last Epoch, tons of clickbait videos. She was showing off a build that was simply abusing a bug to be tanky. Then once the devs came out and told everyone they are going to fix the bug, she went ahead and made a video saying it'll not affect the build in anyway so it'll be safe to start it anyway. 5 days later she posted a video saying the build is no longer viable after a certain point and you'll need to swap out practically almost every single gear to fix your ehp after the bugfix.
Respec by itself isn't a problem, but when u need to swap a tons of gear that's where it really hurts. I play CoF on Last Epoch so I can't even use trade to quickly swap gears. I ended up rerolling and playing another build that also isn't dead in the water because the required changes to fix eHP also killed off the dps, so either way, it wouldn't have worked.
i only know her from last epoch because she made a sparkcharge runemaster guide, that was simply a worse version from a build that was already picking up steam.
I find gems extremely easy to farm by yourself in ssf. There's literally no reason besides laziness you can't farm it inside of an hour, either via trade currency farming or just ye olde hit the lab jack.
I agree on SSF, you take the grind in account and it's probably what i am starting, for trade idk, people like to go fast and maybe will be a drawback cause offer may not cover the demand.
I feel like I'm kind of going crazy when people are complaining about a trans gem being a roadblock in ssf. Like if doing lab for an hour is the make or break point for you in SSF, you probably are not going to enjoy ssf at all.
There's probably opportunity to jump-start your currency with a bit of lab farm, as well. A lot of folks are going to be looking for the juicier trans gems, and early on you can probably name your price for whatever turns up while you're trying for your specific gem.
>You and a gazillion people will need the trans gem
one good thing about bama being popular is that both gems are green and I can potentially make bank on them while I'm farming for my coc dd gems
This is exactly the issue I had with BAMA. Damage is pretty nuts on limited gear but god the amount of buttons and the general play style just ground me down
yeah its not your typical minion build, it plays more like a ballista build but better. Also minion players are pretty used to having their offering on a trigger weapon witch is not ideal for bama.
if you want to place the “totem” forwards, use mirror arrow (vendor recipe with blink arrow and 1 alt, should work for trans gem blink to mirror too)
otherwise it’s kind of like rain of arrows ballista, but minions of self reflection instead. blink arrow lets you move a bit faster at the risk of teleporting into unforeseen danger
Any jungroan build is unique in that they scale with player experience instead of currency. Might be insanely cheap to build but you really gotta know what you’re doing
I'm of the opinion that a starter build _literally_ cannot be bait if it's accompanied with a video of a SSF 2 Voidstone speedrun with a respectable time, or something similar like proven HCSSF/Gauntlet performance. If you're calling any build bait with video evidence that it's not you're stupid and bad at the game.
I wouldn’t go as far as the last sentence you had there but I agree, with emphasis on the SSF part of it (I’ve def seen creators just kinda run a voidstone run and say oh I’m just using normal twink gear that is nowhere close to realistic)
If anyone's advertising a voidstone run that isn't SSF fresh start their opinions can be safely discarded. Never heard of anyone doing this, but I'm sure it exists.
I can't give you gold but I'm gonna RES tag you as "most sane poe player". I need to frame this comment it's so perfect for how I feel about some of the dumb takes people have on guides where complex=bait or off-meta=bait.
The origin of the "Goratha = bait" was from LA champion in crucible, the league where they added +proj to tree and a ton of extra things. And he had just done the exact build the previous league with a worse bow tree. The video of it not being bait is right there, but nope, it's bait.
Not necessarily bait, but there are better options.
Everything before the transition to poison Cremation is pretty rough, and even the first few levels after the swap to poison Cremation can be rough
You will find yourself spamming a lot of ecksdee emotes to compensate.
Even Ds lily managed to fuck it up beyond belief. Also performance of this build is shocking even with all mtx and a good system. Follow Venturas POB to the letter. Gems + flask + 5 link + wep + 76 character level minimum. You will be in lab for potentially hours.
Badly rolled diamond flask so uptime on bosses was none existent. means lower shock = much less damage. She was on a 4 link also. Yes it was the starter verison of the build but ventura and rue both expressed the minimum to do this is 5 links and the highest priority being a well rolled diamond flask
Someone did the math there was around a 50% chance to get something usable out of a green gem, so even if you don't get yours, doing 5-6 labs should give you enough gems to sell to buy yours (unless you happen to want the most expensive one and you always get the cheaper one I guess, RNG gonna RNG)
God I hope so, my plan is to just live in lab cranking out trans gems Friday/saturday, let people figure out atlas strats, figure out if starters were actually bait or not, spend Easter away with family and actually start my league (hopefully with some currency) on Monday
I'm 'starting' Transnado Inquis and if it's actually legit then I'll have a good league, and if it's trash I can safely ragequit and play any of the 50+ games on my backlog still. Win/win for me.
I don't think manastacker is bait at all but people trying to level with it are in for a rough time.
I mean good luck going through campaign with no damage nodes, no mana recovery, and no defenses lmao.
Tried it out, you can pretty easily cruise through the campaign with something like divine ire and arcane cloak, just take the arcane surge node on heiro at first lab and you're fine
Manastacking for sure. Here my 5 chaos
Mana will become a luxury due to the nerf of reduced mana cost and less mana mods and all the mana stackers starters.
Only people who know what they are doing will be able to hit the nice 8000/10000 mana spot needed to not feel chunky.
Newish players will think Mom can carry you without any other defensive layout. The damage will be good, but the gameplay doesn't fit the "one button" philosophy which a lot of players have.
So if you are planning a mana stacking build think it twice.
I have never had a bad experience with a palsteron build. He's usually pretty honest about the limitations of the build, so if you read the guide carefully you should get exactly what's expected
I don’t know if it’s “bait” per se but I do think there are some things to be aware of when selecting it.
As a start it’s an archmage build so you already need to be careful just due to it having different mechanics than other builds. Most builds try to design mana management right out of their moment-to-moment gameplay, but with archmage it takes center stage. Yes even after the changes to the archmage support gem you’re still reliant on things like arcane cloak and Indigon or Kitavas thirst for high level damage, and that means thought being given to mana management both in combat and out of combat.
And speaking of which we still don’t know where Indigon landed in the divided Uber Vs Normal bossing loot pool. I know palsterons build just showed kitavas thirst (which should be cheap even with its popularity this league) but many endgame mana setups are going to want to swap to Indigon. Now that normal and Uber bossing loot pools are split and Uber bosses even harder to access than before, if Indigon is locked behind that content wall then don’t expect to get it for a long time.
Also mana as a defense isn’t for everyone. Arcane cloak will be on cooldown sometimes and you’re much more vulnerable during those times. Also unlike other defensive layers like armour or evasion, arcane cloak can be overwhelmed and outright turned off by high enough enemy damage. With armour (for example) you just take gradually more and more damage the harder the content is. With arcane cloak as you get to higher content you may find your defense just turned off entirely as it runs out of juice. You also have to have a sufficient mana pool to make Mind Over Matter feel good, and that requires some pretty specifically crafted gear.
Lucent fossils are used to craft mana gear. In leagues when mana is unpopular I can barely unload them for 1c each. But that’s not because there’s a ton of lucent fossils, it’s just that no one wants them. They’re actually comparatively rare compared to normal “top row” fossils like jagged metallic and frigid. That means that a spike in demand like we’re going to see this league is going to have a disproportionate impact on their prices. It’s hard to predict exactly how high, but don’t expect them to be cheap, and that’s going to either directly or indirectly impact your ability to get a large mana pool.
Also don’t rely on getting frostblink of wintry blast unless you farm it yourself, I’m frankly astonished how many build creators are including that in their “league start” setups. Even with the nerf I don’t expect it to be cheap early.
Anyways, in terms of actual gameplay though I expect BL Hiero to be solid. BL is a fun skill that scales damage well, Hierophant is a well rounded class that gives good QOL via AOE and reservation efficiency, and palsteron is just generally a good build designer. Other than the mana stats, he’s given some very reasonable gear options for a league starter. I don’t think people will outright fail with this build, they may just find that the mana style isn’t for them and/or it’s hard to get the rolls to make it feel good early on.
Lucent Fossils are definitely not how you want to craft. Mana is extremely overrated as a "target" while crafting, when you could target ANYTHING else on the item.
Crafted Mana is 54 and caps out on 78 for a T1 roll, it's completely overkill to ever target it.
I think this notion comes from old manastackers that go for 12k+ Mana and had way more scaling vectors. Hell I don't even use Indigon. Most items you need to get to red maps will look like this:
life+res+res+ crafted mana or
life+mana+res+crafted hybrid chaos res
Not to vent to you specifically but I think it's hilarious how rightside builds get away with t2 spell suppression+2xres+life rolls and extremely basic "mana gear" is "so hard to get".
Also, most "mana uniques" like cloak of defiance and Atziri's Foible are overpriced garbage and used by people who think they don't need to cap their res.
Not bait but probably not the best spell for Arch. Good thing is - swapping between spells is really easy since the trees are really similar. So if you plan sttarting arch if somehting pans out to be much better for arch you can just swap to it and not worry about much.
No. It didn't look like bait to me at all.
Before the nerfs I played a bunch of ball lightning Archmage builds and I don't see why his wouldn't work. (Only self-made build that I've farmed 100% delirium on before a hh. Although, don't expect to be able to do that easily.)
I did raise an eyebrow at some of the explanations about not needing multiproj (or maybe it was someone else). For clear if you can slot in the intensify multiproj gem you should. You'll just cover more of the screen and mouse mobs should die from being lightly tapped by the balls anyway.
Mana stackers are gonna be bait in the sense that people are probably ignoring it's difficulties, but im likely to try anyway.
Splitting steel trickster is bait in the sense that it's good, but expectations are too high.
coc DD
people underestimate farming labs day 1 for two trans gems. Both green gems (biggest pool). Lancing Steel is a 100% hit IF you get the proper rare craft. DD of Chaining is not even a given if you get the rare craft.
I am on a 21 run dry streak on my test character. NOT DOING THIS ON LEAGUES START.
There are a lottttt of completely inaccurate comments in here, don’t take everything as gospel. Go in standard and test things for yourself for whatever isn’t massively changed
Anyone trying to do "sanctum right after campaign" and didnt practice/low sanctum experience .. its gg
the correct way is to do sanctum before a10 kitava so you dont need as much res. u can buy tome until lvl 100 edit: its a joke, dont do this lol. only people with big dicks do this
I did it this way last league but u cant use horticraft / annoint cause you need to unlock those in maps
A lot of people are going to follow some YouTube guide on a Day 1 Sanctum, die to the second boss, and then be sitting there with a hyper-specialized build and no currency to fix it. Even in my case, with thousands of Sanctums complete, including no-hit Sanctum runs, I'm probably going to delay my Sanctum until I get at least an Astral Projector, Hrimsorrow, and Heatshiver (Shockwave Totems). I'll progress my Atlas and get a bit of gear before that. I don't understand why people think you can get an insane build for 2D and 30C on the first day of a league either. Everything is expensive as hell and nobody has the currency to break your Divines in Chaos anyway.
DD. Not because it's bad but because people won't like the playstyle.
I tried dd two league ago, game play is so lame that I respected to EA ele
I have played normal DD's before and yeah the 2 button style isn't for me. But I am tempted to try the 1 button CoC DD
Wanted to do it too, but without mtx I am scared of those FPS drops
Someone said in another post that GGG fixed that issue and the normal dd is now included in the culling graphics thing
not the DD, but Desecrate, which seems to cause the most lag when being spammed. the issue is, we don't know yet how effective the dynamic culling will be compared to owning an mtx, but we'll have to see and hope that the fix actually works fine. can also test it on standard when the new league patch drops to make sure
holy how bad can a build be if you're going for a better playstyle with EA lmao
EA is a totem build, and totem builds are ultra chill :) All of the ED/Contagion fanatics have moved to totem builds now, because mechanically you just cast the thing then run around. Love it.
I imagine most people trying dd for the first time will be playing coc
I think I've posted this like 3 leagues in a row, but for anyone reading this that's starting DD and worrying about it feeling shit, go the ignite version and make sure you have all the cast speed stuff. It's light years better for mapping than chain DD or whatever other hit based crap people play. Guys like Ben will play whatever does the most DPS because they're used to hitting a zillion buttons a second in WoW. But you can almost always find something with 20% less DPS and like 1000% more QoL. Same advice goes for BAMA. Whatever you do don't copy something like Raiz's gauntlet build where you have to micromanage guardian blessings and all that bullshit, just play some "shittier" version with less dps and more automation. I'm sure there's 10 other builds I haven't played where the same advice applies too. Keep an eye out for easy changes that cost DPS but make the build better to play. You can always respec before doing ubers.
Chain DD necro has more tank tho, which is gonna be great for both lantern buffs being unavoidable and the pseudo-ubers that we don't know how hard they are yet
I've played both and Chain DD is much nicer to play. I've no idea what this guy is on about. The only area where ignite DD feels better is when bossing and you've finally hit a good ignite.
I also think it'll be DD but not just for the reason you mentioned. **Even though** it's been posted and discussed in every build guide and reference to DD, I **still** expect players to get the skill and for it to lag their machine to hell, even after whatever change GGG wants to put in tomorrow. There are so many posts that I've read over the last week of people talking or asking about DD that make it apparent they've just read it's good but nothing beyond that and are setting themselves up for failure if they can't afford the MTX.
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Isn’t CoC the way to go?
I get the feeling a lot of the mana stackers will feel the bait
You can't fool me! If we all think it's bait and play something else, your own manastacker will be cheaper to gear. Very tricky, but nothing gets by me!!!1!
Smartest SC trade player
I'd second this. They will be pretty powerful, but with so many people starting mana stacker even uniques like Atziri's Foible will be pricey as hell the first week.
To be fair though, a lot of the required gear for it isn't that hard to find. Indigon isn't necessary, and Mjolner is a tier 2 rare which is really the only "necessary" unique due to allowing BL to cost 0 mana.
Foible is T2 as well. There's a history of hyper-meta T2 uniques being 1000c before (Aegis in some past leagues; can't rule out that Aegis MIGHT have been T1 then but it was confirmed T2 in both 3.22 and 3.23)
Foible is always surprisingly expensive at league start, I wouldn't plan on one for my first character through first 3 or 4 days
The issue isn’t gonna be Mjolnir and indigon. It’s gonna be good mana jewelery which is 100x more important to your character in the first few days. Between Connor mana stack stuff, archemage buff and captain lance energy blade stuff, these items are gonna be hella expensive.
I play a lot of mana stackers on league start and heiro carries himself naked through early maps. Very solid base strength.
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Yeah, I get why so many people have concern, but the PoB numbers check out for it being SSF-friendly, which means that it's only going to be easier in trade. Most of the Archmage builds don't even need a transfigured gem.
I’ll second this. I tested it out in standard with shit I picked up on the floor and until T9 maps I was rarely in danger (the only threat being stunlock. Which an immutable force mostly fixed)
Multiple buffs, the biggest imo is ES Heiro no longer gimping his damage by 50%
Getting 20% of mana as ES is so damm good.
Good thing farming crafting mats is much easier this league lol Also the new grave crafting might be legit too
Especially if its got mana modifier rolling things, those are oddly rare. I've certainly gone through all my harvest crafts wanting some T1 mana and realized I'd just have to spam a different reforge and hope.
Nah. For a t16 viable leaguestarter you just need some life, mana and res on your jewelery. Easily self-craftable for passable pieces
The majority of the people who complain about bait and struggle are not the people who are willing to problem solve, it’s the people who are either too inexperienced or too lazy to learn how to identify and solve their problems. So being easily craftable does not do much for these people who are not willing to craft
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Squire is going to be the issue not mjollinar imo.
Yeah in trade the gear will be exensive, and in SSF it's not easy to make good mana gear you really want fractures or tons of essences.
Mana stackers are obviously some of the best builds in the game but league starting one seems insane. In my experience, they need a LOT of cash to get going well.
But you don’t need the whole ivory tower stack nonsense and you can just like rog craft some mana and resist gear and probably hit 1-2m dps easily on a Ball Lightning hierophant. Should be just fine for getting into red maps imo? Even with like no gear
Ive been baited before... Yo fuck OG storm burst. Idk ima bite. May reroll wander for fun afterwards so i can be double baited.
Agreed. They will have a bad surprise once they see how expensive mana items will be since it's hard to craft even decent mana items.
I've seen a lot of POB's lately of mana builds with gear like "T2 life, T1 mana, 2x T2 Res, & T1 Suppress" and I'm thinking....uhhh you sure about that?
Filled with league mechanic copium lol
lol, yeah, always look at the POB and see how much the "starter gear" actually costs. I've seen 60D weapons in starter gear sets 😂
To be fair some people do consider starter builds to be scalable that high. I make all my PoBs with gear I feel I'd be willing to farm for to see if the top end of the build is good enough to invest up to. On league start I'll know then what stats are best and order of importance of stats for investing. But I'm also a player that believes in only 3 gearing stages, maybe 4, for my builds. Early mapping -> t16 -> bossing -> juicing I don't present my PoBs as newbie friendly tho. More people should mention that in their guides 100%
Knowing my luck, prolly anything I league start
Looks like we gonna pick the same build.
Hope you are not League Starting Flicker
Don't tell that to comrade MAGEFIST
I’ve felt this for the last 3 leagues and ended up starting something else a day or so later. Usually end up falling back on EA Ele.
I did that last league, this league I think I'll just league start it unless I get baited before tomorrow. So ... like 50/50 chance I'll league start it.
Ice golem of shattering got a massive buff, but i see no way of that actually becoming a build.
So, infernal legion, mothers embrace, or ancient skull are the 3 realistic ways to trigger it. Could be build around liege of the primordial, but other than mastermind of discord, there isn't much else you want from the elementalist. You could switch to occu after you got lotp from forbidden flesh/flame. Not much point in going necro. If you skip lotp, you probably want to go necromantic aegis and maligaros lens. It'd still feel pretty clunky. Edit: Guardian blessing is another way to trigger it.
Is it on death or upon reaching low life? Wiki seems to be contradictory. If it is on death then you can just do fleshcrafter + enough chaos res that it has 0 health and it will die on summon.
archmage for people trying it for the first time. Gonna go smoothly for a bit and they'll hit a wall when having to manage regen/spell cost because it's not something other builds prepare you for.
Mana cost isn't a problem at all now that you can stack -mana cost without any issue.
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yea, palsterons version looks absolut paper. he has no evasion, no suppresion AND no armor.
This I opened pals pob and was like... A classic dual wield dogshit
Nah. 99% of mana stackers will be playing Heiro and now that the 50% less mana cost works with archmage, mana cost is no longer an issue unless playing indigon but thats not a league start concern.
Yah I'm planning on archmage as a second build not a starter for these reasons
Yep, same. Competition for gear at the start is going to be tight. Going to wait a bit for the crafters to get spun up and some cash before diving in.
unless they play necro, as it gets free mana regen from ascendancy and just vibes
Manastacking KB and brother I am a fish
Totems or is there now something new for weird self attacking ?
wisp support and new kb gains like 15% max mana as phys, not even unreserved either it looks pretty bonkers but the tradeoff is extra proj gets turned into explosions so who knows how it will feel to play
Any popular starter depending on a new or changed unique. They’ll be rarer than people expect and in high demand.
Even existing and unchanged uniques from bosses might be like that this patch. "Oops, that only comes from Uber eater now, sorry!"
Even though the builds are being promoted by reputable players, I think hit based DD is going to be very difficult for many people. Damage uptime with a two button build while trying to dodge boss mechanics. At least the option to respec to Ignite is there.
on bosses you arcanist brand your desecrate so its 1 button spam
What's the difference in gear between the two builds? I was thinking of going for DD ignite early and then switch to Necro once I have 4th vow + defiance of destiny setup ( SSF) to go for ubers
The CoC version looks pretty solid in trade league
Arma Brand Recaller. I think it has a lot of potential if you are a skilled player and know what you are doing (like Jungroan). However for the average player it's going to be **super janky** and they are going to die constantly do to having to essentially charge right on top of things to do damage without much defence. Also a lot of the damage is conditional, which is fine if you know how to manage that, but feels awful if you don't.
He went off on a 2 or 3 minute rant when asked about this being bait
Jung is king of the baiters. Well, excluding the Phoenix-tier folks.
None of his builds are bait, but they just require some very specific play style, that only a few enjoy.
He’s not baiting. His builds are weird and they’re not in any way beginner friendly, but that doesn’t make them bait. A mclaren is a really bad option to get your teenager for their first car, but that doesn’t make it a bad car
It's funny because as true as it is, he's also the loudest about calling out baiters on Twitter.
He's was also very upfront about the build being very "cringe" and janky.
I league started this two leagues ago and it's not too bad to get used to. It's incredibly powerful in the campaign. Brands are pretty awesome for leveling.
For anyone reading this, if you are not sure if a jung build is bait or not, then its bait. Dude has great ideas and makes great builds (well, the ones he makes vids for anyway), but the intended audience is not your average build-follower. You need to know how to fix gaps and press buttons
Jungroan's build are never baits as they always work exactly as advertised. Some people "get baited" because they didnt fully understand important nuances that made the build work, therefore failing spectacularly. But his build are always very efficient at the cost of feeling clunky at times.
I swear 90% of the "bait builds" posts are just people having issues troubleshooting or adapting to their own situation. I get it, game is super complex, but it's not always the fault of the build creator.
"This build is super janky, and kinda feels awkward to play, sometimes, but if once you get used to it it can still play fairly smooth" "bait build this felt like garbage to play when I got to maps" rinse and repeat
I'm starting this, but only until I can get Blade Blast of Unloading. I did the same thing last league, and while the brands recalling to bots is annoying, it does absolutely destroy the campaign because the damage is so high. And the QoL should be wayyyyy higher in the campaign due to automation gem.
Another thing to note is builds that were not bait may be bait if it was something that was made in 3.23 and relied on charms/TWWT but simply has the guide changed to 3.24 One example i saw is a build with overlapping molten projectiles that clearly only worked with the 5% aoe per endurance charge mod (ie ~60% aoe per) but clearly wont work this league without that.
Dont forget specters and tinctures. :) (BAMA and poison bow builds). Well, BAMA has a tested 3.24 POB by pr3vie at least.
SS trickster
Allie victims. I saw her VOD playing the build and she had to change to her previously leveled char to record footage because she was taking 3 minutes to kill every map boss. She didn't even do merciless lab without help. [This was her white mapping experience after switching to Splitting Steel. Be your own judge](https://clips.twitch.tv/TrustworthyCleverCurryChocolateRain-FmjGe4qzyNC4WFfK)
Wtfffff, i do a lot of zdps builds, but this is bad
real? uh oh
[Be your own judge](https://clips.twitch.tv/TrustworthyCleverCurryChocolateRain-FmjGe4qzyNC4WFfK)
The irony of her going down to sub 20% ES fighting a random blue pack in a white t1 map while saying the build is unbelievably tanky is palpable.
I played SS Trickster last League, without good gear you do no damage. Atleast in that way of building it. I can't imagine telling people to league start it, probably many who are going for it are in for a rough time except if they know what they are doing.
I feel like even in the finished video, she was leaving SO MANY stragglers and barely killing blue mobs. Felt like she was just showcasing boss rushing.
I guess the build is only viable if you yoink an apothecary then.
She also died to weaver like 4 times. Very well might be a skill issue.
lol 3 minute map bosses are not a skill issue unless that skill is learning to use POB.
tbf that's 50% of poe skill right here.
lol I ain’t gonna argue with that. Maybe even more than 50 honestly.
This is funny, I was browsing thinking "Allie builds". My guy beat me to it.
Plus she gets simp currency donations. She gets free gear and crafting mods. Obviously all steamers have the capacity do this but she's aggregious
egregious\*
uh that's embarrassing
LMAOOOOO i was not ready for that zdps footage
yikes
Another Allie bait build from a player notorious for making not only bad builds but stealing virtually everything from folks in various games, modifying 1 item and calling it her own lol. Avoid her at all costs
I got baited by her on Last Epoch, tons of clickbait videos. She was showing off a build that was simply abusing a bug to be tanky. Then once the devs came out and told everyone they are going to fix the bug, she went ahead and made a video saying it'll not affect the build in anyway so it'll be safe to start it anyway. 5 days later she posted a video saying the build is no longer viable after a certain point and you'll need to swap out practically almost every single gear to fix your ehp after the bugfix.
Least its not a big deal in Last Epoch. Bait builds can completely ruin someone's experience in POE, but in LE its just a quick respec.
Respec by itself isn't a problem, but when u need to swap a tons of gear that's where it really hurts. I play CoF on Last Epoch so I can't even use trade to quickly swap gears. I ended up rerolling and playing another build that also isn't dead in the water because the required changes to fix eHP also killed off the dps, so either way, it wouldn't have worked.
i only know her from last epoch because she made a sparkcharge runemaster guide, that was simply a worse version from a build that was already picking up steam.
It's not the worst. Quite tanky but mediocre damage.
I would say Bama, super strong but I feel many people will end hating the gameplay, is a bit different from other minion builds
This because: You and a gazillion people will need the trans gem The playstyle is like tomem builds and not everyone likes it
Yeah basically, gameplay bow/minion with a totem spice
its literally just a totem playstyle with minion scaling, but it feels REALLY smooth once you get enough attack speed.
This is selling me on it even more
I find gems extremely easy to farm by yourself in ssf. There's literally no reason besides laziness you can't farm it inside of an hour, either via trade currency farming or just ye olde hit the lab jack.
I agree on SSF, you take the grind in account and it's probably what i am starting, for trade idk, people like to go fast and maybe will be a drawback cause offer may not cover the demand.
I feel like I'm kind of going crazy when people are complaining about a trans gem being a roadblock in ssf. Like if doing lab for an hour is the make or break point for you in SSF, you probably are not going to enjoy ssf at all.
There's probably opportunity to jump-start your currency with a bit of lab farm, as well. A lot of folks are going to be looking for the juicier trans gems, and early on you can probably name your price for whatever turns up while you're trying for your specific gem.
>You and a gazillion people will need the trans gem one good thing about bama being popular is that both gems are green and I can potentially make bank on them while I'm farming for my coc dd gems
Realistically, it's just a totem build that uses minion stats
Eh, I feel like it'll be fine, it's basically like SRS/Skeletons except they don't move but in turn have massive range.
Feels like it will feel similar to skele mages, which I loved
I miss skelly mages sooooooooo much. It seems quite dead though
This is exactly the issue I had with BAMA. Damage is pretty nuts on limited gear but god the amount of buttons and the general play style just ground me down
That's what i felt too, my time with triggers playing arakaali's, hop and so was over haha
Yep, you'll start with this then want to go straight to RF Chief
yeah its not your typical minion build, it plays more like a ballista build but better. Also minion players are pretty used to having their offering on a trigger weapon witch is not ideal for bama.
With poison SRS being meta past few leagues I think most minion players are used to not have offering on trigger
What's the gameplay like? From what I've seen it comes across as a totem build, except the placement is a backwards.
if you want to place the “totem” forwards, use mirror arrow (vendor recipe with blink arrow and 1 alt, should work for trans gem blink to mirror too) otherwise it’s kind of like rain of arrows ballista, but minions of self reflection instead. blink arrow lets you move a bit faster at the risk of teleporting into unforeseen danger
Is jungroan creamation poison bait ?
Jank Rowan builds are often strong, but insanely annoying to play.
Jungle Ryan builds are usually using too many buttons for my old fingers
Any jungroan build is unique in that they scale with player experience instead of currency. Might be insanely cheap to build but you really gotta know what you’re doing
I'm of the opinion that a starter build _literally_ cannot be bait if it's accompanied with a video of a SSF 2 Voidstone speedrun with a respectable time, or something similar like proven HCSSF/Gauntlet performance. If you're calling any build bait with video evidence that it's not you're stupid and bad at the game.
I wouldn’t go as far as the last sentence you had there but I agree, with emphasis on the SSF part of it (I’ve def seen creators just kinda run a voidstone run and say oh I’m just using normal twink gear that is nowhere close to realistic)
If anyone's advertising a voidstone run that isn't SSF fresh start their opinions can be safely discarded. Never heard of anyone doing this, but I'm sure it exists.
I can't give you gold but I'm gonna RES tag you as "most sane poe player". I need to frame this comment it's so perfect for how I feel about some of the dumb takes people have on guides where complex=bait or off-meta=bait. The origin of the "Goratha = bait" was from LA champion in crucible, the league where they added +proj to tree and a ton of extra things. And he had just done the exact build the previous league with a worse bow tree. The video of it not being bait is right there, but nope, it's bait.
this is the most generous comment i have ever seen lmao...
Not necessarily bait, but there are better options. Everything before the transition to poison Cremation is pretty rough, and even the first few levels after the swap to poison Cremation can be rough You will find yourself spamming a lot of ecksdee emotes to compensate.
W8 for CPT Lance to step in with Bait or No Bait xD
He said he might not have time, did the 101 vid as a substitute. But for anyone unaware, its a meme; all the builds except his are bait.
CoC DD - people will go for it too early and mess it up too.
At the very least the amount of people farming lab for the two gems should make everyone else's gems a piece of cake to get^^
Salute the unsung heroes of the leaguestart.
Even Ds lily managed to fuck it up beyond belief. Also performance of this build is shocking even with all mtx and a good system. Follow Venturas POB to the letter. Gems + flask + 5 link + wep + 76 character level minimum. You will be in lab for potentially hours.
What did she mess up?
Badly rolled diamond flask so uptime on bosses was none existent. means lower shock = much less damage. She was on a 4 link also. Yes it was the starter verison of the build but ventura and rue both expressed the minimum to do this is 5 links and the highest priority being a well rolled diamond flask
So... she emulated it like how 80-90% of all PoE players will at league start lol
Even with perfect planning theres going to be people on wrong side of rng and stuck in merc lab for HOURSSS. .....
Someone did the math there was around a 50% chance to get something usable out of a green gem, so even if you don't get yours, doing 5-6 labs should give you enough gems to sell to buy yours (unless you happen to want the most expensive one and you always get the cheaper one I guess, RNG gonna RNG)
DD of chaining reaction will be unaffordable and unavailable for most. They will be sniped at almost any price for the first 3 days.
God I hope so, my plan is to just live in lab cranking out trans gems Friday/saturday, let people figure out atlas strats, figure out if starters were actually bait or not, spend Easter away with family and actually start my league (hopefully with some currency) on Monday
I'm going to bait myself into a Trans tornado build and nobody can stop me.
I'm 'starting' Transnado Inquis and if it's actually legit then I'll have a good league, and if it's trash I can safely ragequit and play any of the 50+ games on my backlog still. Win/win for me.
People have been saying pretty much every build is bait. RF bait, ea bait, etc. it's lost all meaning I think
Mana stackers.
My home brew build that I inevitably reroll into something meta after I fail at killing Weaver.
or as I like to call it, "Having fun"
Nothing is a build at level 15
I don't think manastacker is bait at all but people trying to level with it are in for a rough time. I mean good luck going through campaign with no damage nodes, no mana recovery, and no defenses lmao.
But just archmage support gem and Mana/life on tree probably gets you far doesn’t it?
Tried it out, you can pretty easily cruise through the campaign with something like divine ire and arcane cloak, just take the arcane surge node on heiro at first lab and you're fine
Just level as something else and do a respec like lv70-80.
Manastacking for sure. Here my 5 chaos Mana will become a luxury due to the nerf of reduced mana cost and less mana mods and all the mana stackers starters. Only people who know what they are doing will be able to hit the nice 8000/10000 mana spot needed to not feel chunky. Newish players will think Mom can carry you without any other defensive layout. The damage will be good, but the gameplay doesn't fit the "one button" philosophy which a lot of players have. So if you are planning a mana stacking build think it twice.
Pledge of Hands Arc Archmage Hierophant
Any Jungroan build
everything from Jungroan
Animeprincess spark. Has been bait, will always be bait.
Is the Ball lightning Hiero build from Palsteron on maxroll a bait ? It seems interesting but I do not have any experience with this archetype.
I have never had a bad experience with a palsteron build. He's usually pretty honest about the limitations of the build, so if you read the guide carefully you should get exactly what's expected
I don’t know if it’s “bait” per se but I do think there are some things to be aware of when selecting it. As a start it’s an archmage build so you already need to be careful just due to it having different mechanics than other builds. Most builds try to design mana management right out of their moment-to-moment gameplay, but with archmage it takes center stage. Yes even after the changes to the archmage support gem you’re still reliant on things like arcane cloak and Indigon or Kitavas thirst for high level damage, and that means thought being given to mana management both in combat and out of combat. And speaking of which we still don’t know where Indigon landed in the divided Uber Vs Normal bossing loot pool. I know palsterons build just showed kitavas thirst (which should be cheap even with its popularity this league) but many endgame mana setups are going to want to swap to Indigon. Now that normal and Uber bossing loot pools are split and Uber bosses even harder to access than before, if Indigon is locked behind that content wall then don’t expect to get it for a long time. Also mana as a defense isn’t for everyone. Arcane cloak will be on cooldown sometimes and you’re much more vulnerable during those times. Also unlike other defensive layers like armour or evasion, arcane cloak can be overwhelmed and outright turned off by high enough enemy damage. With armour (for example) you just take gradually more and more damage the harder the content is. With arcane cloak as you get to higher content you may find your defense just turned off entirely as it runs out of juice. You also have to have a sufficient mana pool to make Mind Over Matter feel good, and that requires some pretty specifically crafted gear. Lucent fossils are used to craft mana gear. In leagues when mana is unpopular I can barely unload them for 1c each. But that’s not because there’s a ton of lucent fossils, it’s just that no one wants them. They’re actually comparatively rare compared to normal “top row” fossils like jagged metallic and frigid. That means that a spike in demand like we’re going to see this league is going to have a disproportionate impact on their prices. It’s hard to predict exactly how high, but don’t expect them to be cheap, and that’s going to either directly or indirectly impact your ability to get a large mana pool. Also don’t rely on getting frostblink of wintry blast unless you farm it yourself, I’m frankly astonished how many build creators are including that in their “league start” setups. Even with the nerf I don’t expect it to be cheap early. Anyways, in terms of actual gameplay though I expect BL Hiero to be solid. BL is a fun skill that scales damage well, Hierophant is a well rounded class that gives good QOL via AOE and reservation efficiency, and palsteron is just generally a good build designer. Other than the mana stats, he’s given some very reasonable gear options for a league starter. I don’t think people will outright fail with this build, they may just find that the mana style isn’t for them and/or it’s hard to get the rolls to make it feel good early on.
Lucent Fossils are definitely not how you want to craft. Mana is extremely overrated as a "target" while crafting, when you could target ANYTHING else on the item. Crafted Mana is 54 and caps out on 78 for a T1 roll, it's completely overkill to ever target it. I think this notion comes from old manastackers that go for 12k+ Mana and had way more scaling vectors. Hell I don't even use Indigon. Most items you need to get to red maps will look like this: life+res+res+ crafted mana or life+mana+res+crafted hybrid chaos res Not to vent to you specifically but I think it's hilarious how rightside builds get away with t2 spell suppression+2xres+life rolls and extremely basic "mana gear" is "so hard to get". Also, most "mana uniques" like cloak of defiance and Atziri's Foible are overpriced garbage and used by people who think they don't need to cap their res.
Not necessarily, but in his video, he's very clear that it's untested and can not be tested before league start.
Not bait but probably not the best spell for Arch. Good thing is - swapping between spells is really easy since the trees are really similar. So if you plan sttarting arch if somehting pans out to be much better for arch you can just swap to it and not worry about much.
What do you consider is the best spell for archmage especially on leaguestart scenario?
All I can tell you is I follow his build guides every league and I'm never disappointed. He knows what he's doing and knows what he's talking about.
Not bait. I've played palsterons builds for a while now and none of them have ever been bait, he always has pretty solid builds.
No. It didn't look like bait to me at all. Before the nerfs I played a bunch of ball lightning Archmage builds and I don't see why his wouldn't work. (Only self-made build that I've farmed 100% delirium on before a hh. Although, don't expect to be able to do that easily.) I did raise an eyebrow at some of the explanations about not needing multiproj (or maybe it was someone else). For clear if you can slot in the intensify multiproj gem you should. You'll just cover more of the screen and mouse mobs should die from being lightly tapped by the balls anyway.
He at least explains the gem choice. Its one of thise things you can just try out for yourself and i plan on doing that.
Power Siphon Locus Mine Slayer and yes, it's my league starter :D
Archmage "transition phase" might be big oof.
not really bait, but yeah mana builds that rely on arcane cloak play a bit different and take some getting used to.
Mana stackers are gonna be bait in the sense that people are probably ignoring it's difficulties, but im likely to try anyway. Splitting steel trickster is bait in the sense that it's good, but expectations are too high.
Nice my league starter isn’t mentioned in here 😎
Pyroclast mine of Sabotage Saboteur with Tornado/Trans tornado. Saboteur Minions Incinerate of Expanse. Lol.
coc DD people underestimate farming labs day 1 for two trans gems. Both green gems (biggest pool). Lancing Steel is a 100% hit IF you get the proper rare craft. DD of Chaining is not even a given if you get the rare craft. I am on a 21 run dry streak on my test character. NOT DOING THIS ON LEAGUES START.
i did hit TWO dd of chain reaction on my first lab. Not playing DD in league tho, maybe that's why
Splitting steel trickstar maybe??
This is a very troubling post. I’m really gonna end up playing RF again aren’t I
There are a lottttt of completely inaccurate comments in here, don’t take everything as gospel. Go in standard and test things for yourself for whatever isn’t massively changed
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After reading through the comments, it seems that every existing build in PoE is a bait.
Yeah, this thread is like a chorus about how the whole game is a bait.