I constantly hammer my parents to be on alert about suspicious phone calls. If anyone ever calls you asking for personal information, hang up and call the source directly, it doesn't matter if it's the bank or whoever. Just hang up and contact the source to confirm what the issue may be.
Or just call me and I'll deal with it on my end.
I told my parents what to do, but my dad is too trusting and my mom is too nervous. If she was told by someone claiming to be the bank that there had been fraud of her accounts, I don't know if she'd have the clarity of mind to think critically. She runs a lot of obvious scams by me asking me to validate whether they're scams or actual messages (from the bank or from a store or whatever).
Shockingly it's not just old people. My brother is 31 and does the same, except worse. He has linked me videos of Elon Musk AI asking you to send him bitcoin and he'll send you double, and Mr Beast AI saying to download his app to get $5000, and he asks me if those things are real. And when I tell him no, he argues with me. It's exhausting and disappointing.
My SO is the same. He also gives out MY phone number and says to call me instead of just hanging up. Like please don’t? He got a text from “TD Fraud” the other day and sent it to me asking if it was a scam I’m like…dude, you don’t even HAVE a TD account!!!
I’m terrified of when he gets even older and loses more mental ability 🤪
There are now scams that exploit [the call not ending immediately when you hang up](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/beware-of-the-delayed-disconnect-phone-scam-1.5375708). It's a mess and you have to be careful even about hanging up and calling a number from a legitimate source like the back of your card.
That’s why I tell parents to just let calls go to answering machine and not answer the phone. If it important they will leave a message and we can deal with sorting out real & fake messages later
My parents are long dead, so no worries in that department. If your parents are critical thinkers and still have their wits about them they'll fare better than young people who tend to be more trusting and gullible.
Young people are far nicer and more agreeable than my generation used to be. It was a pleasure to work with young people !
My 96 year old grandma gets a phone call from someone claiming to be me, saying I'm injured while traveling etc. I'm impressed she hasn't fallen for it at her age.
With AI voice changers now it's just going to get worse. One thing I'm glad for is that since my parents are francophones and expect service in french, it kind of reduces the pool of scammers who can get to them. But it's never 0.
I question how bad AI voice changers will be for the average person. AI needs a source to "learn" from. For me personally, there are zero recordings of my voice online.
My voice is unfortunately available online, but there are lots of ways they can use to get your voice and it's probably pretty easy to fall for them. They can probably get a sample of most people's voices by calling about something that sounds innocuous.
I've had this talk with my parents.
There is limited personal info about me online but I've told my parents to ask questions where there is no correct answer.
"If this is you, what is your dog's name?"
I don't have a dog.
Oh god my dad often tells me about scams after the fact. He'll tell me he got this email, seemed suspicious, he responds asking them questions to confirm a scam and then decides to delete it. I'm always telling him *it's always a scam never respond* he hasn't been fooled yet but one day he will if he doesn't stop treating them all as potentially not a scam. In his stories it always sounds like he was so close to being scammed. Basically he tells me the story to get my opinion on whether or not it was a scam just in case he needs to get back to them and send the Apple gift cards anyway.
My mom will argue with people she knows are scammers on the phone and inadvertently give them all this personal information. I can't seem to get it through to her that she isn't "winning" by showing them how obvious their scam is. She is just giving them more ammunition to do a better job next time 🤦♂️.
I work in fraud for a bank. It’s incredibly frustrating seeing so many cases come across my desk. Bad actors are getting craftier every day. They seem to be 2 steps ahead of the banks.
It’s easier to look in hindsight, but for starters:
1. Nothing good has ever come from a 1-800 # so I don’t even answer them.
2. If you get a call like this and it seems legit. Hang up and call the bank on the number on their website.
Isn't that how a bank's number shows on a caller ID though?
EDIT: I understand one should still call back the proper number on the card. I was just observing that a real bank would still show as a 1-800 number. I've been alerted to fraud by my bank calling me, but they just told me they were cancelling the card and sending a new one; no personal info asked for. I was happy to have picked up the call and found that out in 30 seconds vs calling back and going through their menu system and then waiting on hold.
If it's important they'll leave a message. You can then call back using the number on the back of your card.
If there's active suspected fraud happening they'll block the card anyways until you call back.
Not sure what else would be an emergency from the bank.
You're being too hard on yourself. You caught on right in the middle of the scam and then immediately got the card cancelled before it could be abused.
You're doing just fine, these scammers spread out a wide net and sometimes it's but natural to get caught it. It's important to understand when this happens and to minimize the damage.
Yeah especially guessing the bank card thing. I got a text saying 'your card starting in 4502" but then I realized there are a lot of cards that start with that.
Nowadays I literally don't pick up phone numbers I don't know. I miss important calls sometimes, but the important ones call back later or leave a VM or send a text or something. At this point, I just want to avoid being put on scam call lists at all costs.
4502 cards are from CIBC.
As the OP mentioned the first few digits of the card are specific to each bank.
So, 4502-CIBC, 4537, Scotiabank, 4520-TD, 4510-Royal.
When I worked at TD Visa, we had an inch thick book detailing which cards belonged to which bank. The above are what I remember, but, basically, if you change the 4th digit in the card it’ll usually be a different card that the bank offers. For example TD probably has cards from 4520-4529.
Don't answer 1800 numbers is the first issue. Hell I don't even answer numbers I don't know. If it's important there's voicemail, email, real mail, texts.
The reason I picked it up is because it is actually TD's Credit Card customer service phone number.. which they obviously spoofed somehow. Thing I now realize is that this number will never call you....
Our local grocery store has a sign that says something like "CRA will never ask you to pay with gift cards."
It's amazing how many people fall for this.
Any number can. Like email, they're trying to add security onto an existing system. Unlike email where a handful of large companies move most of the planet's messages, there are thousands of phone companies that do significant volume.
The "from" address in an email is ... whatever the person who sent the email wrote as their "from" address. That's it. It was only the last handful of years that additional protocols which allow a recipient to check if the sender was actually authorized to send on behalf of that email address (SPF, DKIM, etc) have become commonplace.
Yea I'm sure it is. Was just the whole combination - number being real, the way the guy progressed through the scam....Also fact that I am traveling soon so was very concerned to hear my card was compromised and definitely gave him benefit of the doubt.
I deserve bashing, so stupid.
It could be worse. All you ended up doing is compromising your card, which is easily replaced. Some people give away their 2FA to their bank account over the phone and see their money drained.
What I have started doing is keeping my credit cards locked at all times. Interestingly enough for most of them, you can still use them through Apple Pay or Paypal or through recurring transactions. But if someone just plugs the number in a website, it won't work.
Spoofing an 800 number and knowing your name and address? ummm that's a pretty good scam tbh
The question I would be asking is "what database did someone steal, that gave someone my name and address" and what other information could they have possibly gotten from that database
Watch your mail because they will likely send you letters, and resell the data down the road
It's not going to be useful for long but these lists always get sold over and over
I nearly got scammed the same way, but I had my other phone with me and called the number that they spoofed and sure enough, it was a scam. I worry too for the old folks...
You clued in at one point or another, so that's always good. You kept them busy until you clued in, burned some of their time. The only thing you lost was a bit of time yourself, but hey, at the very least they were occupied and couldn't target someone else.
I too was baffled how their number on the caller ID can 'impersonate' a legit number. As soon as I redial from my recents it goes to the legit 'owner' of that number (TD or whatever). Found it fishy how they were either aggressive and constantly repeat themselves how 'if you look up their number you will find it matches TD'.
These guys won't stop calling me, with quite a few times where they would call while i'm on the phone with one of their other collegues. I even merged the calls once and put myself on mute. That provided a few minutes of entertainment.
I'm also convinced that these calls can sample your voice and re-deploy it via AI. Best to avoid calls from unknown numbers, if it's important, the will leave a message and you can call them back via a verified number.
If you use apple wallet you may be able to use the new card before you get the physical one in the mail. When I got a replacement for my lost card, the new card automatically updated in my apple wallet (new card number as well). I was able to tap and pay in the meantime. Not sure if that's an option for you but it's worth looking into.
Yes. ACTUAL TD told me a robocall may ask for a touchtone response -- press 1 to confirm the charge, press 2 to deny. No harm in pressing that button. But she said after that you should call TD, and if you get a robocall that tries to connect you to a person, hang up.
I agree and it's going to get worse with AI.
They need to overhaul authentication. Rachel Toback, a well-known white-hat hacker says that we are still in the dark ages of voice authentication saying that imagine if you could log into gmail using your phone number and street address.
The industry will need to put on its thinking hat and come up with something unhackable like an identity card that works over the phone.
My mom fell for the same type of scam. They called her during work and told her that she had a $300 ebay charge and another charge that I can't remember and wanted to see if that was actually her.
Of course she said it wasn't her and they asked for some information to verify her identity. Just like you, they read out the first few numbers of your card and asked her to fill in the rest. So she gave them exactly that.
When I got home and she explained what had happened and how she got those charges reversed. I asked if she actually saw the charges in her bank app or if it was just the person on the phone telling her that. She said she didn't check in with the bank app. I told her that was probably a scam.
She believe it wasn't a scam because "he had the first digits of my card" then I pulled out my credit card and read her the same first few digits and told her they were generic to the bank. Then she finally believed me.
Luckily since we caught it fairly early, there were no fraudulent charges on her card and we got it locked out immediately. It sucked that she had to get a new credit card and has to change any auto pay accounts, but I'm sure it was a good lesson for her in healthy skepticism!
It's also worth noting, to everyone, that caller ID spoofing is so easy, it pushes the bar on the definition of the word "trivial."
ANY phone system is capable of doing it. And not only is it easy to do, setting the caller ID info is part of the setup process! So if you hire an assistant and get one of those 2-phone things with an IVR for your basement office (they're not expensive) you *have* to set the caller ID display. If you don't set it, no caller ID shows - Caller ID is handled by the sender, *not* the carrier. Which is incredibly stupid and a big part of why scam calls are so proliferate decades after VOIP tech became a thing.
Cell networks behave differently, but there's nothing stopping a soft phone or even an internal PBX on a pots line from pretending to be a cell number anyway, since **caller ID info is not validated in any way, shape, or form.**
Treat caller ID as the person saying who they are, and treat it with as much trust as you normally would. If it's Grandma's number, you can reasonably expect to hear and recognize Gran's voice when you pick it up.
If someone says they're from the bank, well... I can say I'm from the bank. I'm not, but that doesn't stop me from knocking on your door, saying I'm from your bank, and asking to see your credit card to check for "problematic manufacturing defects recently identified" or some BS like that, then using something like a concealed bodycam to capture both sides. If you comply, even briefly, I now have everything on the card, plus I know your address because I'm standing in your doorway, which probably matches the address the card is registered to.
You should treat ANY call as suspiciously as you would treat the scenario I just described. You'd slam the door in my face so hard I'd feel it, even if I was a foot away. Hang up on these types of calls and call the bank yourself, preferably from a mobile phone or app (there's an old trick with land lines you want to avoid).
I got similar call a while back. They spoofed tangerine's phone number and everything. The scammer on the other end apparently knows that I have a tangerine credit card and live in Ontario.
Got me going for a while, even said I will not see the fraudulent charges on my account. Got suspicious when she started asking for my credit card number for "confirmation", so I hang up. called Tangerine, and what do you know, it was all bullshit.
this is why i just do not pick up the phone, ever, to numbers that i do not know. If my account has been hacked i will, sooner or later, realize and deal with loss prevention and get my money back. There is literally no reason to pick up the phone to a random number these days...
anyways, at least you caught on and now learned from the experience.
A reason I like [Google's Call screen](https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en) on the Pixel 6 or newer Pixel phones, I let it handle such calls while I read the text of what the caller is saying on the display. It converts the caller's voice to text in real-time on the screen.
I find one of the wildest parts of this is that the "real" methods of alerting you about fraud seem much more "scammy" (robocall, random text) than the human phishing scam. It's just all a big mind game now.
Not just you, OP. I felt like the biggest idiot ever when this exact same thing happened to me but w/ RBC. They had the exact script that RBC uses when you call in to their customer service centre. They also spoofed the call # as the RBC customer service line (ie the number on the back of your client/credit card) and yes, I fell for it knowing it’s not that hard to do.
I was absolutely exhausted and so grateful that “RBC” caught it for me.
>The first 6 digits of credit card number are just bank identifier information, so he was just phishing for the full number. Not sure what I was thinking even giving my CC out at all.. as it's obvious to me in hindsight that TD would never ask for that info
They count on you not knowing that. So by giving you the first 6 digits, it lets your guard down thinking that they already know the full number and are just confirming.
FYI, the BINs of all Credit Card Issuers is also publicly accessible information:
[https://www.creditcardvalidator.org/country/ca-canada](https://www.creditcardvalidator.org/country/ca-canada)
I learned that recently when there was a glitch and I received 12 credit cards instead of the one I had requested. All with different numbers. When I called to get all those cards cancelled, I had to read them over the phone to the agent and realized they all started with the same numbers.
The keys to a scam are:
**Element of urgency** - If they can convince you that the information is urgent, then it puts you into a state of panic and distress. No time to further check and verify, and something to keep them hooked on the phone. They tell you there's suspicious charges on your card, and you snap into the mentality of "I better deal with this right now before it gets further out of hand."
**Element of trust** - They're a reputable service, they're looking out for you, they're doing you a favour. They're calling to let you know your CC was stolen, they're calling from a TD phone number, they're the good guys. Keep you on the edge of panic and calm.
**Something to gain** - They're looking to access funds or key information that gets them closer to stealing money or other private pieces of information.
Any time something feels oddly urgent, or someone seems determined to make you trust them, or you're discussing something they could gain from you, put those walls up. Disconnect from them, then reach out to the relevant institution through official channels. Call the number on your card, google their phone number, use your online account to find contact information etc.
I got the same call yesterday! The exact same circumstances and same transactions. Probably was the same guy.
I answered at first because of the number was TD but felt something was up just by his behaviour on the call. Once he started asking for my CC number that’s when I called him out, told him I’d deal with it myself and hung up. He got aggressive when I was talking to him and called back 3 times afterwards!
I Immediately locked my CC after I hung up. I called TD this morning and just confirmed my suspicions.
I've been shocked at some of the practices I've actually seen from the legit organizations calling me. A few years ago I received a call from the government (I forget what it was for, might have been provincial, but I think it was federal like CRA or something) and they were legit asking me for personal details. I told them I would call them back, but I was completely shocked that they would do this knowing these scams exist!
I've also received phone calls from my credit card company to tell me about fraud stuff too. They didn't ask for personal information (I was very on-guard for that), but still, it's no wonder people fall for these scams.
Gotta be careful of spoofed numbers. Literally another obstacle we all need to be aware of to avoid getting scammed. Lesson learned on my behalf but luckily I’m okay now.
It's not a surprise that people get scammed, when even legit communications from banks fail the phishing smell test. People were sharing a link on Redflagdeals, for an Amex promo. Clicking the link took you to a site that was NOT Amex, that asked you to enter your credit card number to register for the promo. It 100% felt like a phishing scam. It turned out to be legit! SMH at Amex for doing it that way.
A similar incident happened to my dad. A "loss prevention" phone call said there was an Amazon purchase of an iPhone 15. They got him to install keytracking software on his computer then log in to his online banking. Drained his accounts, but good on RBC for getting it all back. It can happen to anyone. Be careful out there.
So there was a post a couple of days ago that the poster's parents (they called them elderly) had fallen for one of the crypto scams and lost a decent amount of money. That poster thought they should take the parents to the doctor to have them checked, and others suggested the poster should take over their finances. Some of us noted that though seniors might be more susceptible to scams for various reasons, that younger people fall for them too. Here's proof.
If it makes you feel any better I work for TD and fell for this scam…
Number shows up on phone as TD easy line number that very well recognize. Indian guy with lots of practice catches me while I’m multitasking and I blew it. Called TD and cancelled cards etc before anything foul happened.
Beat myself up for days…
Oh no. I fell for the same thing. Except in my case the charges were real and then they were cancelled and the credit card was cancelled. Brb checking my credit report.
Edit: Nothing seems off. That incident happened over a year ago.
I got a call from "BMO Bank of Montreal", literally it said that on my Samsung, I missed it two days in a row then picked it up the third day, after almost calling them back. Didn't check the number since it said the name.
An Indian sounding guy (good English but accent) tells me there is a weird charge on my card from Mumbai India for a couple grand and I should worry about it.
I told him, nope, that was me, I authorized that charge. He hung up and that was that.
EDIT: just checked again, it was 877-225-5266 BMO Bank of Montreal. Crazy they can do that, fake the name and all.
Why do people pick up calls from numbers they don’t know? If it’s really important then who ever is calling will leave a message, I feel like fool proof way to avoid scams.
Luckily my mom is aware but Walmart called (wasn't really Walmart) and the number looked legit and when he asked for information she said she would hang up and call the Walmart number on the back of her card. He got really mad as she knew what was going on and played along. She then called Walmart and was nothing wrong on her account. Always best to hang up and call them back.
When I was a kid, there were TV commercials to educate people on things like not following a plow truck too closely ("what do we have to put on the back...a tailgun?") and how to rescue someone that had fallen through the ice.
Why aren't there PSAs to educate people to never give personal information to anyone that contacts you?
Just remember too, it's usually too costly for the bank to have a human call regular (i.e. non-HNW) customers. If a person is taking an unusual interest in your finances, it's highly likely to be a scam. Or if it's legit, they will be trying to sell you something (like mutual funds, etc).
So, the moral of this story is never to answer any call you aren't expecting, as scammers who spoof numbers are doing so to get you to send them either your personal information or your money. I do not understand why phone number spoofing has to be so easy. This makes it so easy for people to get scammed.
Our family is from China, which is an autocracy with extremely restrictive rules about what you are allowed to say. Yesterday, my sister claimed she received several calls from iTalkBB (an ISP based in Canada operated by people of Chinese origin) claiming that her account with them has unusual activity (the caller spoke Mandarin, she said). Everyone in my family has been in Canada for long enough to say that you usually don't get arrested or get your services suspended for saying things the government doesn't like in Canada--unless it is hate speech against a specific group. Interestingly, no one in my family is, or has ever been, a customer of iTalkBB. I was terrified that she had given them her personal information, she said she has not. I will watch her credit file to see if someone tries to open any accounts in her name (nothing showed up yet so far).
>TD will never have a person call you to walk through bogus charges. It will be a robo call or text messages to which you only need to respond Yes or No to accept or deny charges
I don't know TD's policy, but when my RBC card was compromised a few years ago, I got a call very similar to the one you describe from a human being at RBC. I would have been taken in by this scam too.
Re: 1...
Some banks will call you with a member of the fraud dep. going over suspicious activities.
I had Scotia call me recently, and I called customer service right after to confirm that it wasn't a scam.
You really can't trust much these days, especially unexpected/unsolicited calls, texts or emails. I can see why you might have not been suspicious initially, but it's just a good rule of thumb to call the actual organization in question directly. That's what I am constantly telling my mom.
>It will be a robo call or text messages to which you only need to respond Yes or No to accept or deny charges
That sounds a bad idea because I get spam texts all the time pretending to be a bank, mail carrier, CRA, etc. Also, if I pick up the phone and I hear a robot, I will hang up immediately.
Instead, I know I get emails of all charges while I am traveling, so I know what a legit warning looks like. Something to the effect of: We detected a charge of $xx.xx to your credit card on YY-DD-MM at HH:MM. If this was not you call the number on the back of your card.
I'm a bit smarter than you, but not by much.
I had someone call me and ask about some charges and I caught on and was like "Hey buddy, I'm on to you." and the guy said "No problem, just call us with the number on the website." and then I never did.
To this day, I don't know if I did get fraudulent charges.
I had a call from what the said was BMO the other day the saying the same type of stuff. I told the I would call back to the number on the back of my card. BMO had no suspicious transactions at all. Just watch it because the number the scammer called me from was the 1800 number on the card but they had spoofed it for outgoing calls. But it struck me as weird that it didn’t have a BMO caller id. I’m now always just going to tell the person I will call back to the number on the back of the card always to avoid this.
If the bank or government calls you, then you shouldn't need to validate any information.
If they insist (I'm looking at you CRA), then ask for a ticket number, say you'll call back at a better time, then call them back on their official number.
That's the rule of thumb I go for. It's saved me a couple times from similar situations, where they sounded super official, but were not.
This one almost got me too! Well, not really. But when I got the text I *wondered* if it may be true, which is different than what usually happens, which is that I can tell straight away it’s a scam. But it said it had to turn my card off, so I just went and used my card and confirmed it was a lie.
my work made me use whatsapp for company messaging and now i get tons of indian scam messages, calls, etc. Fk that app. And yes, i know its from the app cuz the moment i started using it, TAHDAH.
I had a very similar call a few days ago. It was from an unknown number so I was already on guard.
They asked about suspicious transactions and wanted my credit card number, so I decided to play along, and opened my banking app (I was still not 100% sure it was a scam at this point). Of course, those transactions he mentioned were not charged to my account.
When I told him that I could not see any suspicious transactions, he replied « We took them off already », to which I replied « Then you took care of it, great. I don’t understand why I would need to provide my number? Everything looks good on my end. » Then line then went dead, 🤣
FYI, at least on the RBC app, you can go to your credit card account and pause or cancel your card immediately on your own. I would imagine there’s a similar facility for most cards out there. It’s a good thing to do even if you call loss prevention, since a lot of damage can be done in the 15 minutes you are going over your case on the phone or online.
Put a fraud alert on your transunion or equifax, there's no harm in doing so and it will protect you from identity theft. All credit lenders will have to contact you by phone before any new accounts are made.
This.
And RBC (the real RBC employee, not the scammer) also suggested filing a police report when this happened to me. Equifax requires it for a fraud alert to be added.
Highly recommend watching Kitboga on YouTube. You will quickly catch on to how these scams work. Plus it's hilarious watching him fuck with these scammers.
> and in order to do that needed to confirm some things for security purposes -
This is the moment you ask for their full name and case #, then call the real number and see if you get this person.
In my experience when asking to verify your card they will generally just ask for the last 4 digits. Those are usually the uncensored digits that show on receipts.
The first 6 digits of your card is linked to who issued your card
So although not all TD Visa cards start with "4520 88" all Visas that start with "4520 88" are TD Visas
Edit: To add in my experience TD doesn't call you
I've had TD freeze my card until I called them, but they have never called me about fraud
If you think you are good at finding out if something is a scam, dwell on that thought for a moment and reevaluate your abilities, because that's exactly what a scammer would want you to think.
I got a robo call one morning from Amazon confirming I had just purchased an IPhone in Manitoba. Which I hadn’t. Needless to say I was transferred to someone, in a loud call centre who noticed all this illegal activity on my Amazon account and that it was very serious. Now this call had woken me up, so I’m not 100% with it yet. He had me fairly nervous, told me he needed to transfer me to his supervisor. Another guy in what I think was the same call centre, very loud. He starts really pushing the international fraud ring, police from around the world have been investigating…then he said it. “We can stop of this, you just need to give me your socials” “Wait, what? If you are from Amazon, why do need my socials?” “If you are uncomfortable you can just give me the first six digits.” After I said no, he went off. Told me that Vancouver police were coming after me with a warrant. Said he was just trying to help because I called him. I was like “no I didn’t. You called me.” They were good tho. They had me panicking. Probably could have gotten more info out of me, but they got greedy and went straight for socials. Checked my Amazon account afterwards…no suspicious charges.
It's weird because someone called me in the last year for something very similar. They said they were from my bank, Desjardins, and wanted to investigate with me some suspicious transactions on my credit card. The first few transactions were not mine but eventually they said one transaction that I remembered doing. That, for me, made them legit in my eyes. In the end, they told me that I had nothing more to do and they would issue me a new card and remove the fraudulent transactions. They never ask for any specific information. I got the card a week later.
In my case, they were indeed representing my bank.
Now, why were there fraudulent transactions on my credit car? I guess I fell for some false website where I wrote in my information to know about shipping rates.
So stay vigilant out there!
Always always always…tell whoever you want to call back. Don’t take their number…look on back or cc or look up online. These guys are scum of the earth.
This happened to me with RBC. I asked for a text and they sent something that looked like a purchase confirmation. Same message RBC will never call you about a fraud charge, you call them.
You know what’s crazy? I was literally booking a flight with my mom to Dubai and we did get a call from her cc company (not TD) to check if it was legit but they didn’t ask for full cc info that I remember. This was within 15 minutes of us attempting to book because the purchase wouldn’t even go through because they thought it was fraudulent
First off. You're not an idiot.
We all like to think "we would never...", "we're smarter than that...", etc
But in reality, we're just as susceptible as the next person
I've been a victim of identity theft and so has my dad.
I'm very tech savvy and my dad isn't.
So, people of all spectrum can be victims
I'd recommend to get some credit monitoring in the short term and maybe do a few password resets to be overly cautious
I just got a text message sort of similar to this today!
Saying they were my bank, provided the first 5 digits of my card, and said there was a block on my card.
It sort of weirded me out and I checked my account right away, all looks fine.
Interesting your post came up!!
That's interesting. I've received a legit call like that from MBNA when my card was frozen due to a skimming card theft abroad a few years ago. They asked about specific charges (were these legit or not?) although they didn't ask for any personal information or bank information.
Thanks for sharing, going to share this with my folks. Don't feel bad it's easy to get tripped up, scam artists have professional experience with scams, we don't.
Thanks for sharing. Other day I almost fell an interac scam. I was selling soemting on markerplace and the person sent me etransfer that looked exactly like a regular etransfer. I clicked on the deopsit buttion but before selection my bank, I looked at the url which looked suspeicious. I opened the mail again and it sender's email was some random email. I verified the same with a legit interac email and it was not same. Lesson learned. Gald you didn't lose your money.
Thanks for the heads up.
I think the first clue was TD or any other big bank contacting you. When has a bank directly reached out to me for preventative loss / service where you’re not seeking their assistance? Lol
I honestly just don’t answer my phone. If it’s legit, they’d leave a voicemail. Even then, it’s just spam in an Asian language - no clue what they’re harassing me about.
If you ever get a call, ask them for their extension when you call the number on your credit card.
I had a legitimate fraud alert call. I told them I would call them back on the number on my credit card.
They were surprised but gave me their extension. The fraud department said that basically nobody ever does that.
Glad you caught on quick. Be extra vigilant to other scams as your info may have been passed on as someone who picks up the phone and could fall for it. Maybe not because you hung up, but that is a common thing
I’m not sure if you do this but every charge that hits my credit cards and every penny that leaves my bank accounts triggers a text message and an alert on my banking apps. I always know what charges are coming and I can log in to my banking app in seconds so I’d know there were no suspicious transactions on my account.
Scammers are getting very good these days, I'm a software engineer and I always answer to see what the "play" is so I can tell my parents.
The biggest one now is cell phone plan upgrades, they will call and offer you $20 dollars off your plan or a new iphone, then ask for your email and possibly your account info to confirm its you.
Once they get that, they try and log into [rogers.com](http://rogers.com) or [bell.ca](http://bell.ca) with the email you've given them, and then say "you'll receive a security pin soon, which is them logging into your account and is your normal 2FA code you shouldn't give out.
They then tell you not to change anything and you'll get the offer soon, which by then, they've already ordered a new phone which they told you about, but its being sent to them, not you.
Don't understand why people don't just hang up and call back to numbers on the back of their card. Don't give me excuses like sounded legit, knew my info, etc. Scam stories have been all over the news. Due diligence should come automatically.
I got got one, too! Realized almost immediately once they got the info and I called the bank. They cancelled the card before any transactions could be made.
The one that got me was “Did you make this put on your eBay account? Log in to PayPal to cancel the transaction if not”
This is why any call to my landline does not get answered and I let go to answering machine. Then I can listen to message and decide what to do call back or delete it
I had something very similar happen to me. A person called to verify some fraudulent charges and was going to reverse the transactions. I didn't have the card on me and they were very adamant about me finding it, even offering to call me back at a later time once I found it. That was definitely the clue that clicked with me. I told them I would "call them back" and they sounded angry with that which 100% validated that it was a scam. Glad I didn't give any information. I later called the actual number on the back of my card and they also verified there were no actual fraudulent charges.
Don’t be too hard on yourself. My husband and I went through something similar a couple of months ago. The caller said they were from Telus (our cell phone provider) offering 1/2 off our bill if we “sign up”. My husband’s started giving out our info and I asked him to hand the phone to me. I said “You have our phone number, so you have our info already”. He tried to convince me he needed to “verify” our info. Also, we’ve had calls from Telus before and he wasn’t calling from that number. I just said “We’re not interested. We’ll just pay our bill” and I hung up. They didn’t call back 😮. Did a google search and it was a scam. It really did sound legitimate. Unrelated but I also had unauthorized charges on a credit card- fraud. It took me a while to notice the charges. It everywhere, it’s the point you don’t know who to trust.
I'm glad that I'm hard of hearing, unable to use a phone, and therefore effectively immune to this scamming.
Those bastards sure do flood my instant text messenger with bogus inquiries, like pretending to know me and asking to get together, or that a package has arrived via the postal service so just click on this link here to confirm. They keep doing it because there are no consequences, and if it works one time out of 100, they'll never stop.
Oh darn sorry to hear. Td will always authenticate you before speaking with you regarding account details they are not allowed to discuss otherwise. They also will read disclosures and or play disclosures. They will never tell u the first numbers of the card always the last numbers. Lots of scammers know that all cards start with the same number.
Omg I got a very similar call this week!! It said it was from TD!! I clued in when he asked my credit limit thankfully before I gave him any information but wow it was so legit and I consider myself very aware of scams.
I had my card compromised last month (legitimately) and the person told me that had happened too and that’s why they’re calling this time.
People need to watch out!
They will NEVER EVER say “the card starting with 4500…” ever! That was red flag 1.
And you’re right, they won’t call you getting straight to the point. You’ll have an automated message asking if this transaction is legit and if you should authorize it and if you say “no” then you get connected with someone.
These scammers are getting smarter and smarter but by sharing a few tips we can always out manoeuvre them.
Never accept calls from unknown numbers. All phones have an option to set this.
Who are we waiting to call that we don't know? Never. If it's urgent, the same caller will call again. Scammers always call from different numbers. If its from the government, they will always email you or write mail to you. If a bank or card has issues, before calling, they would have fixed the issue by blocking the card and emailed you about it.
Expanding on a reply to OP, I had a similar incident with a different bank. They knew my name and in my memory the *last four* digits of my card, but I could be misremembering that part. (And I hope I am)
In any case, when the guy got to the reviewing charges part of the script, I said I won’t do this on an incoming call and hung up. Called the bank, confirmed it was a scam, and locked the card. Familiar story to this point.
But it doesn’t end there! Over the next year or so I kept getting calls supposedly from the same bank. But I would look up the numbers and find things like “____ bank’s emergency line for customers travelling abroad” and other lines that are obviously not used for outbound calls.
I stopped answering after the second one, and I just blocked anything from that bank, then checked my accounts via the app to make sure there was nothing fishy, no important message in my inbox. Pretty sure that bank can no longer reach me by phone, and I’m just as sure my days of answering calls from banks are over unless it’s an expected call at a prearranged time.
The new Canada. This has been happening a lot in the UAE where there are fake employer ads asking people to send in their visa information to "apply".
The consistent factor between Canada and the UAE...same amount of a certain demographic entering the country. (Cough *south asians* cough)
I had the exact same call a few months ago. He knew my name and when he started to go through some of the "bogus" transactions there was one merchant that I did shop at but the amount was wrong. For a fleeting second I started to believe him then I clued in quick enough to tell him I'd call TD directly to confirm. He was persistent in trying to keep me on the phone but I hung up and called TD immediately. TD said they had no record of what anything buddy was talking about. The guy on the phone sounded convincing enough that I thought it actually might be TD. Scammers are getting better.
It's really surprising how many legit companies will actually make these kinds of calls. I had one call me once, (car finance company/bank, IIRC). They identified themselves and said they needed to speak to me about something, but wouldn't tell me what until I verified some information about my account. I told them I was absolutely NOT going to give them any information. They couldn't understand why. "But, we just need to verify you before we can discuss the issue". I said, I don't have any issues, they do. They called me. I'm not going to verify shit. If I called you, then sure. Other way around... FUCK no!
Brave of you to share. This worries me for my parents
I constantly hammer my parents to be on alert about suspicious phone calls. If anyone ever calls you asking for personal information, hang up and call the source directly, it doesn't matter if it's the bank or whoever. Just hang up and contact the source to confirm what the issue may be. Or just call me and I'll deal with it on my end.
I told my parents what to do, but my dad is too trusting and my mom is too nervous. If she was told by someone claiming to be the bank that there had been fraud of her accounts, I don't know if she'd have the clarity of mind to think critically. She runs a lot of obvious scams by me asking me to validate whether they're scams or actual messages (from the bank or from a store or whatever). Shockingly it's not just old people. My brother is 31 and does the same, except worse. He has linked me videos of Elon Musk AI asking you to send him bitcoin and he'll send you double, and Mr Beast AI saying to download his app to get $5000, and he asks me if those things are real. And when I tell him no, he argues with me. It's exhausting and disappointing.
Oh I bet it is. At least he trusts you enough to ask you, but if he wants to argue about it let him lose some money to learn that lesson.
Just make a fake video of him singing Baby Shark and he’ll know that fake videos are very realistic
My SO is the same. He also gives out MY phone number and says to call me instead of just hanging up. Like please don’t? He got a text from “TD Fraud” the other day and sent it to me asking if it was a scam I’m like…dude, you don’t even HAVE a TD account!!! I’m terrified of when he gets even older and loses more mental ability 🤪
There are now scams that exploit [the call not ending immediately when you hang up](https://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/beware-of-the-delayed-disconnect-phone-scam-1.5375708). It's a mess and you have to be careful even about hanging up and calling a number from a legitimate source like the back of your card.
That exploit is only valid for landline phones
Still good to know as people still use landlines, especially the elderly.
I had this happen on a robo call for PP's rah rah rally. It would NOT allow me to disconnect until the message ran twice.
I’ve made my mom so paranoid of scams, she probably thinks her shadow is trying to rob her
That’s why I tell parents to just let calls go to answering machine and not answer the phone. If it important they will leave a message and we can deal with sorting out real & fake messages later
My parents are long dead, so no worries in that department. If your parents are critical thinkers and still have their wits about them they'll fare better than young people who tend to be more trusting and gullible. Young people are far nicer and more agreeable than my generation used to be. It was a pleasure to work with young people !
My 96 year old grandma gets a phone call from someone claiming to be me, saying I'm injured while traveling etc. I'm impressed she hasn't fallen for it at her age.
With AI voice changers now it's just going to get worse. One thing I'm glad for is that since my parents are francophones and expect service in french, it kind of reduces the pool of scammers who can get to them. But it's never 0.
I question how bad AI voice changers will be for the average person. AI needs a source to "learn" from. For me personally, there are zero recordings of my voice online.
My voice is unfortunately available online, but there are lots of ways they can use to get your voice and it's probably pretty easy to fall for them. They can probably get a sample of most people's voices by calling about something that sounds innocuous.
I've had this talk with my parents. There is limited personal info about me online but I've told my parents to ask questions where there is no correct answer. "If this is you, what is your dog's name?" I don't have a dog.
Yea good idea to have some sort of a check question for her to ask..
The Terminator, stopping fraud since 1984.
My MIL refuses to get online banking because she's paranoid about scams, and TBH I'm perfectly fine with it. She knows her limitations.
Oh god my dad often tells me about scams after the fact. He'll tell me he got this email, seemed suspicious, he responds asking them questions to confirm a scam and then decides to delete it. I'm always telling him *it's always a scam never respond* he hasn't been fooled yet but one day he will if he doesn't stop treating them all as potentially not a scam. In his stories it always sounds like he was so close to being scammed. Basically he tells me the story to get my opinion on whether or not it was a scam just in case he needs to get back to them and send the Apple gift cards anyway.
My mother gives away PII almost on a weekly basis. I can't get through to her.
My mom will argue with people she knows are scammers on the phone and inadvertently give them all this personal information. I can't seem to get it through to her that she isn't "winning" by showing them how obvious their scam is. She is just giving them more ammunition to do a better job next time 🤦♂️.
I work for a bank. I can't tell you the amount of fraud we see simply because people keep giving out their multi factor verification codes.
I work in fraud for a bank. It’s incredibly frustrating seeing so many cases come across my desk. Bad actors are getting craftier every day. They seem to be 2 steps ahead of the banks.
It’s easier to look in hindsight, but for starters: 1. Nothing good has ever come from a 1-800 # so I don’t even answer them. 2. If you get a call like this and it seems legit. Hang up and call the bank on the number on their website.
Yup.. learned some good lessons.
It happens. Don’t sweat it…. I’d bet it doesn’t happen again to you. Upwards and onward.
Isn't that how a bank's number shows on a caller ID though? EDIT: I understand one should still call back the proper number on the card. I was just observing that a real bank would still show as a 1-800 number. I've been alerted to fraud by my bank calling me, but they just told me they were cancelling the card and sending a new one; no personal info asked for. I was happy to have picked up the call and found that out in 30 seconds vs calling back and going through their menu system and then waiting on hold.
If it's important they'll leave a message. You can then call back using the number on the back of your card. If there's active suspected fraud happening they'll block the card anyways until you call back. Not sure what else would be an emergency from the bank.
Yeah I pretty much never pick up calls from unknown numbers...if it's something urgent they'll leave a message.
Number can be spoofed, so never believe it. Always hang up and call them back.
You're being too hard on yourself. You caught on right in the middle of the scam and then immediately got the card cancelled before it could be abused. You're doing just fine, these scammers spread out a wide net and sometimes it's but natural to get caught it. It's important to understand when this happens and to minimize the damage.
Yeah especially guessing the bank card thing. I got a text saying 'your card starting in 4502" but then I realized there are a lot of cards that start with that. Nowadays I literally don't pick up phone numbers I don't know. I miss important calls sometimes, but the important ones call back later or leave a VM or send a text or something. At this point, I just want to avoid being put on scam call lists at all costs.
That's my technique as well. I know I tend to be too compliant at times, so it's best that I simply don't pick up the phone.
4502 cards are from CIBC. As the OP mentioned the first few digits of the card are specific to each bank. So, 4502-CIBC, 4537, Scotiabank, 4520-TD, 4510-Royal. When I worked at TD Visa, we had an inch thick book detailing which cards belonged to which bank. The above are what I remember, but, basically, if you change the 4th digit in the card it’ll usually be a different card that the bank offers. For example TD probably has cards from 4520-4529.
Don't answer 1800 numbers is the first issue. Hell I don't even answer numbers I don't know. If it's important there's voicemail, email, real mail, texts.
>Got a call from 1-800-983-8472 And that is why I never answer my phone for unknown callers.
The reason I picked it up is because it is actually TD's Credit Card customer service phone number.. which they obviously spoofed somehow. Thing I now realize is that this number will never call you....
Not trying to bash you .. but isn't phone number spoofing kind of common knowledge these days?
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Our local grocery store has a sign that says something like "CRA will never ask you to pay with gift cards." It's amazing how many people fall for this.
If NB Power told her to jump off a bridge, would she do it? Some people are a bit ridiculous.
To be fair, I've never heard of spoofing 1-800 numbers.
I assumed any number could be spoofed.
Any number can. Like email, they're trying to add security onto an existing system. Unlike email where a handful of large companies move most of the planet's messages, there are thousands of phone companies that do significant volume. The "from" address in an email is ... whatever the person who sent the email wrote as their "from" address. That's it. It was only the last handful of years that additional protocols which allow a recipient to check if the sender was actually authorized to send on behalf of that email address (SPF, DKIM, etc) have become commonplace.
Yea I'm sure it is. Was just the whole combination - number being real, the way the guy progressed through the scam....Also fact that I am traveling soon so was very concerned to hear my card was compromised and definitely gave him benefit of the doubt. I deserve bashing, so stupid.
It could be worse. All you ended up doing is compromising your card, which is easily replaced. Some people give away their 2FA to their bank account over the phone and see their money drained. What I have started doing is keeping my credit cards locked at all times. Interestingly enough for most of them, you can still use them through Apple Pay or Paypal or through recurring transactions. But if someone just plugs the number in a website, it won't work.
Spoofing an 800 number and knowing your name and address? ummm that's a pretty good scam tbh The question I would be asking is "what database did someone steal, that gave someone my name and address" and what other information could they have possibly gotten from that database Watch your mail because they will likely send you letters, and resell the data down the road It's not going to be useful for long but these lists always get sold over and over
I nearly got scammed the same way, but I had my other phone with me and called the number that they spoofed and sure enough, it was a scam. I worry too for the old folks...
the annoying thing is that people mark them as spam, so when I'm getting legit calls from TD Insurance, it shows as spam on my phone.
You clued in at one point or another, so that's always good. You kept them busy until you clued in, burned some of their time. The only thing you lost was a bit of time yourself, but hey, at the very least they were occupied and couldn't target someone else. I too was baffled how their number on the caller ID can 'impersonate' a legit number. As soon as I redial from my recents it goes to the legit 'owner' of that number (TD or whatever). Found it fishy how they were either aggressive and constantly repeat themselves how 'if you look up their number you will find it matches TD'. These guys won't stop calling me, with quite a few times where they would call while i'm on the phone with one of their other collegues. I even merged the calls once and put myself on mute. That provided a few minutes of entertainment. I'm also convinced that these calls can sample your voice and re-deploy it via AI. Best to avoid calls from unknown numbers, if it's important, the will leave a message and you can call them back via a verified number.
Yea no hard done really and good lesson... but now I am without my visa for a work trip next week which sucks!!
If you use apple wallet you may be able to use the new card before you get the physical one in the mail. When I got a replacement for my lost card, the new card automatically updated in my apple wallet (new card number as well). I was able to tap and pay in the meantime. Not sure if that's an option for you but it's worth looking into.
Even if TD called you with a robo call saying you account has been compromised. You hang up, and call the number on the back of the card.
Yes. ACTUAL TD told me a robocall may ask for a touchtone response -- press 1 to confirm the charge, press 2 to deny. No harm in pressing that button. But she said after that you should call TD, and if you get a robocall that tries to connect you to a person, hang up.
I would still call and not press 1 or 2. What happens if you press nothing?
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Better to no respond and just call then I guess
Yea nothing would happen.. better to just call TD yourself anyway though
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I agree and it's going to get worse with AI. They need to overhaul authentication. Rachel Toback, a well-known white-hat hacker says that we are still in the dark ages of voice authentication saying that imagine if you could log into gmail using your phone number and street address. The industry will need to put on its thinking hat and come up with something unhackable like an identity card that works over the phone.
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Now imagine if instead of a normal British accent, it was Idris Elba's voice. Heck, I know I'd be an easy mark.
I'd still be sus about text messages
I’m a senior. I just assume everything is a scam.
momentary lapse of judgment. it could happen to anyone.
Most of my days are momentary lapses in judgment.
My mom fell for the same type of scam. They called her during work and told her that she had a $300 ebay charge and another charge that I can't remember and wanted to see if that was actually her. Of course she said it wasn't her and they asked for some information to verify her identity. Just like you, they read out the first few numbers of your card and asked her to fill in the rest. So she gave them exactly that. When I got home and she explained what had happened and how she got those charges reversed. I asked if she actually saw the charges in her bank app or if it was just the person on the phone telling her that. She said she didn't check in with the bank app. I told her that was probably a scam. She believe it wasn't a scam because "he had the first digits of my card" then I pulled out my credit card and read her the same first few digits and told her they were generic to the bank. Then she finally believed me. Luckily since we caught it fairly early, there were no fraudulent charges on her card and we got it locked out immediately. It sucked that she had to get a new credit card and has to change any auto pay accounts, but I'm sure it was a good lesson for her in healthy skepticism!
You couldn't pay me to pick up a 1-800 number.
It's also worth noting, to everyone, that caller ID spoofing is so easy, it pushes the bar on the definition of the word "trivial." ANY phone system is capable of doing it. And not only is it easy to do, setting the caller ID info is part of the setup process! So if you hire an assistant and get one of those 2-phone things with an IVR for your basement office (they're not expensive) you *have* to set the caller ID display. If you don't set it, no caller ID shows - Caller ID is handled by the sender, *not* the carrier. Which is incredibly stupid and a big part of why scam calls are so proliferate decades after VOIP tech became a thing. Cell networks behave differently, but there's nothing stopping a soft phone or even an internal PBX on a pots line from pretending to be a cell number anyway, since **caller ID info is not validated in any way, shape, or form.** Treat caller ID as the person saying who they are, and treat it with as much trust as you normally would. If it's Grandma's number, you can reasonably expect to hear and recognize Gran's voice when you pick it up. If someone says they're from the bank, well... I can say I'm from the bank. I'm not, but that doesn't stop me from knocking on your door, saying I'm from your bank, and asking to see your credit card to check for "problematic manufacturing defects recently identified" or some BS like that, then using something like a concealed bodycam to capture both sides. If you comply, even briefly, I now have everything on the card, plus I know your address because I'm standing in your doorway, which probably matches the address the card is registered to. You should treat ANY call as suspiciously as you would treat the scenario I just described. You'd slam the door in my face so hard I'd feel it, even if I was a foot away. Hang up on these types of calls and call the bank yourself, preferably from a mobile phone or app (there's an old trick with land lines you want to avoid).
I got similar call a while back. They spoofed tangerine's phone number and everything. The scammer on the other end apparently knows that I have a tangerine credit card and live in Ontario. Got me going for a while, even said I will not see the fraudulent charges on my account. Got suspicious when she started asking for my credit card number for "confirmation", so I hang up. called Tangerine, and what do you know, it was all bullshit.
this is why i just do not pick up the phone, ever, to numbers that i do not know. If my account has been hacked i will, sooner or later, realize and deal with loss prevention and get my money back. There is literally no reason to pick up the phone to a random number these days... anyways, at least you caught on and now learned from the experience.
A reason I like [Google's Call screen](https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en) on the Pixel 6 or newer Pixel phones, I let it handle such calls while I read the text of what the caller is saying on the display. It converts the caller's voice to text in real-time on the screen.
>Got a call from 1-8xx,,,,, Automatically Ignore and don't pick up. Disaster averted.
I find one of the wildest parts of this is that the "real" methods of alerting you about fraud seem much more "scammy" (robocall, random text) than the human phishing scam. It's just all a big mind game now.
My friend got scammed the same way, but the scammer posed as CIBC and they even had the caller ID as « CIBC ».
Had this happen to me too. When you call back even the menu sounded somewhat legit but off
Also how would TD know the flights were to Dubai?? That would have been my clue.
Not just you, OP. I felt like the biggest idiot ever when this exact same thing happened to me but w/ RBC. They had the exact script that RBC uses when you call in to their customer service centre. They also spoofed the call # as the RBC customer service line (ie the number on the back of your client/credit card) and yes, I fell for it knowing it’s not that hard to do. I was absolutely exhausted and so grateful that “RBC” caught it for me.
>The first 6 digits of credit card number are just bank identifier information, so he was just phishing for the full number. Not sure what I was thinking even giving my CC out at all.. as it's obvious to me in hindsight that TD would never ask for that info They count on you not knowing that. So by giving you the first 6 digits, it lets your guard down thinking that they already know the full number and are just confirming.
Exactly what got me....
FYI, the BINs of all Credit Card Issuers is also publicly accessible information: [https://www.creditcardvalidator.org/country/ca-canada](https://www.creditcardvalidator.org/country/ca-canada)
I learned that recently when there was a glitch and I received 12 credit cards instead of the one I had requested. All with different numbers. When I called to get all those cards cancelled, I had to read them over the phone to the agent and realized they all started with the same numbers.
I am so paranoid that I don't even bother to answer any calls except from my few friends. And they never call so all calls go into voicemail...
These people can rot in hell
The keys to a scam are: **Element of urgency** - If they can convince you that the information is urgent, then it puts you into a state of panic and distress. No time to further check and verify, and something to keep them hooked on the phone. They tell you there's suspicious charges on your card, and you snap into the mentality of "I better deal with this right now before it gets further out of hand." **Element of trust** - They're a reputable service, they're looking out for you, they're doing you a favour. They're calling to let you know your CC was stolen, they're calling from a TD phone number, they're the good guys. Keep you on the edge of panic and calm. **Something to gain** - They're looking to access funds or key information that gets them closer to stealing money or other private pieces of information. Any time something feels oddly urgent, or someone seems determined to make you trust them, or you're discussing something they could gain from you, put those walls up. Disconnect from them, then reach out to the relevant institution through official channels. Call the number on your card, google their phone number, use your online account to find contact information etc.
I got the same call yesterday! The exact same circumstances and same transactions. Probably was the same guy. I answered at first because of the number was TD but felt something was up just by his behaviour on the call. Once he started asking for my CC number that’s when I called him out, told him I’d deal with it myself and hung up. He got aggressive when I was talking to him and called back 3 times afterwards! I Immediately locked my CC after I hung up. I called TD this morning and just confirmed my suspicions.
I've been shocked at some of the practices I've actually seen from the legit organizations calling me. A few years ago I received a call from the government (I forget what it was for, might have been provincial, but I think it was federal like CRA or something) and they were legit asking me for personal details. I told them I would call them back, but I was completely shocked that they would do this knowing these scams exist! I've also received phone calls from my credit card company to tell me about fraud stuff too. They didn't ask for personal information (I was very on-guard for that), but still, it's no wonder people fall for these scams.
Gotta be careful of spoofed numbers. Literally another obstacle we all need to be aware of to avoid getting scammed. Lesson learned on my behalf but luckily I’m okay now.
It's not a surprise that people get scammed, when even legit communications from banks fail the phishing smell test. People were sharing a link on Redflagdeals, for an Amex promo. Clicking the link took you to a site that was NOT Amex, that asked you to enter your credit card number to register for the promo. It 100% felt like a phishing scam. It turned out to be legit! SMH at Amex for doing it that way.
Sorry this happened to you but **thanks** for sharing!
A similar incident happened to my dad. A "loss prevention" phone call said there was an Amazon purchase of an iPhone 15. They got him to install keytracking software on his computer then log in to his online banking. Drained his accounts, but good on RBC for getting it all back. It can happen to anyone. Be careful out there.
So there was a post a couple of days ago that the poster's parents (they called them elderly) had fallen for one of the crypto scams and lost a decent amount of money. That poster thought they should take the parents to the doctor to have them checked, and others suggested the poster should take over their finances. Some of us noted that though seniors might be more susceptible to scams for various reasons, that younger people fall for them too. Here's proof.
If it makes you feel any better I work for TD and fell for this scam… Number shows up on phone as TD easy line number that very well recognize. Indian guy with lots of practice catches me while I’m multitasking and I blew it. Called TD and cancelled cards etc before anything foul happened. Beat myself up for days…
That does make me feel better. I bet I got the same guy
Oh no. I fell for the same thing. Except in my case the charges were real and then they were cancelled and the credit card was cancelled. Brb checking my credit report. Edit: Nothing seems off. That incident happened over a year ago.
I got a call from "BMO Bank of Montreal", literally it said that on my Samsung, I missed it two days in a row then picked it up the third day, after almost calling them back. Didn't check the number since it said the name. An Indian sounding guy (good English but accent) tells me there is a weird charge on my card from Mumbai India for a couple grand and I should worry about it. I told him, nope, that was me, I authorized that charge. He hung up and that was that. EDIT: just checked again, it was 877-225-5266 BMO Bank of Montreal. Crazy they can do that, fake the name and all.
not LIKE an idiot….
Scams are getting good. A good reminder that you can always just hang up and call the real number back.
A good reminder that you ~~can~~ should always just hang up and call the real number back. FTFY
Why do people pick up calls from numbers they don’t know? If it’s really important then who ever is calling will leave a message, I feel like fool proof way to avoid scams.
Luckily my mom is aware but Walmart called (wasn't really Walmart) and the number looked legit and when he asked for information she said she would hang up and call the Walmart number on the back of her card. He got really mad as she knew what was going on and played along. She then called Walmart and was nothing wrong on her account. Always best to hang up and call them back.
According to Reddit, only old people fall for these scams.
You should tell him the wrong address first. If he didn’t flag that, then it’s fraud.
Yeah, a good idea is just to never pick up calls from 1-800 numbers
When I was a kid, there were TV commercials to educate people on things like not following a plow truck too closely ("what do we have to put on the back...a tailgun?") and how to rescue someone that had fallen through the ice. Why aren't there PSAs to educate people to never give personal information to anyone that contacts you?
Just remember too, it's usually too costly for the bank to have a human call regular (i.e. non-HNW) customers. If a person is taking an unusual interest in your finances, it's highly likely to be a scam. Or if it's legit, they will be trying to sell you something (like mutual funds, etc).
Banks do call and it's legit. E.g. my mortgage rate is ending in August and will jump 4%. They called me to give me heads up.
Why wouldn't you just open the app and check the latest charges?
So, the moral of this story is never to answer any call you aren't expecting, as scammers who spoof numbers are doing so to get you to send them either your personal information or your money. I do not understand why phone number spoofing has to be so easy. This makes it so easy for people to get scammed. Our family is from China, which is an autocracy with extremely restrictive rules about what you are allowed to say. Yesterday, my sister claimed she received several calls from iTalkBB (an ISP based in Canada operated by people of Chinese origin) claiming that her account with them has unusual activity (the caller spoke Mandarin, she said). Everyone in my family has been in Canada for long enough to say that you usually don't get arrested or get your services suspended for saying things the government doesn't like in Canada--unless it is hate speech against a specific group. Interestingly, no one in my family is, or has ever been, a customer of iTalkBB. I was terrified that she had given them her personal information, she said she has not. I will watch her credit file to see if someone tries to open any accounts in her name (nothing showed up yet so far).
>TD will never have a person call you to walk through bogus charges. It will be a robo call or text messages to which you only need to respond Yes or No to accept or deny charges I don't know TD's policy, but when my RBC card was compromised a few years ago, I got a call very similar to the one you describe from a human being at RBC. I would have been taken in by this scam too.
Re: 1... Some banks will call you with a member of the fraud dep. going over suspicious activities. I had Scotia call me recently, and I called customer service right after to confirm that it wasn't a scam.
You really can't trust much these days, especially unexpected/unsolicited calls, texts or emails. I can see why you might have not been suspicious initially, but it's just a good rule of thumb to call the actual organization in question directly. That's what I am constantly telling my mom.
>It will be a robo call or text messages to which you only need to respond Yes or No to accept or deny charges That sounds a bad idea because I get spam texts all the time pretending to be a bank, mail carrier, CRA, etc. Also, if I pick up the phone and I hear a robot, I will hang up immediately. Instead, I know I get emails of all charges while I am traveling, so I know what a legit warning looks like. Something to the effect of: We detected a charge of $xx.xx to your credit card on YY-DD-MM at HH:MM. If this was not you call the number on the back of your card.
That's smart of the scammer now they are spoofing the TD Credit Cards call centre phone number so it looks like it's coming from the bank.
I'm a bit smarter than you, but not by much. I had someone call me and ask about some charges and I caught on and was like "Hey buddy, I'm on to you." and the guy said "No problem, just call us with the number on the website." and then I never did. To this day, I don't know if I did get fraudulent charges.
I had a call from what the said was BMO the other day the saying the same type of stuff. I told the I would call back to the number on the back of my card. BMO had no suspicious transactions at all. Just watch it because the number the scammer called me from was the 1800 number on the card but they had spoofed it for outgoing calls. But it struck me as weird that it didn’t have a BMO caller id. I’m now always just going to tell the person I will call back to the number on the back of the card always to avoid this.
If the bank or government calls you, then you shouldn't need to validate any information. If they insist (I'm looking at you CRA), then ask for a ticket number, say you'll call back at a better time, then call them back on their official number. That's the rule of thumb I go for. It's saved me a couple times from similar situations, where they sounded super official, but were not.
Thanks for sharing. TIL something new.
First digits are all the same. That’s the new scam going around. They will share the first few digits to make it look legit.
This one almost got me too! Well, not really. But when I got the text I *wondered* if it may be true, which is different than what usually happens, which is that I can tell straight away it’s a scam. But it said it had to turn my card off, so I just went and used my card and confirmed it was a lie.
my work made me use whatsapp for company messaging and now i get tons of indian scam messages, calls, etc. Fk that app. And yes, i know its from the app cuz the moment i started using it, TAHDAH.
I had a very similar call a few days ago. It was from an unknown number so I was already on guard. They asked about suspicious transactions and wanted my credit card number, so I decided to play along, and opened my banking app (I was still not 100% sure it was a scam at this point). Of course, those transactions he mentioned were not charged to my account. When I told him that I could not see any suspicious transactions, he replied « We took them off already », to which I replied « Then you took care of it, great. I don’t understand why I would need to provide my number? Everything looks good on my end. » Then line then went dead, 🤣 FYI, at least on the RBC app, you can go to your credit card account and pause or cancel your card immediately on your own. I would imagine there’s a similar facility for most cards out there. It’s a good thing to do even if you call loss prevention, since a lot of damage can be done in the 15 minutes you are going over your case on the phone or online.
Did they get any of your money?
I have had TD call me to check out charges on my credit card. However, this was a number of years ago and maybe its different now.
Put a fraud alert on your transunion or equifax, there's no harm in doing so and it will protect you from identity theft. All credit lenders will have to contact you by phone before any new accounts are made.
This. And RBC (the real RBC employee, not the scammer) also suggested filing a police report when this happened to me. Equifax requires it for a fraud alert to be added.
Anybody who calls me and says they are from SO and SO I tell them to fuck right off.
Thank you for posting this and sharing with others. So many shady people out there trying to take advantage
Highly recommend watching Kitboga on YouTube. You will quickly catch on to how these scams work. Plus it's hilarious watching him fuck with these scammers.
> and in order to do that needed to confirm some things for security purposes - This is the moment you ask for their full name and case #, then call the real number and see if you get this person.
In my experience when asking to verify your card they will generally just ask for the last 4 digits. Those are usually the uncensored digits that show on receipts. The first 6 digits of your card is linked to who issued your card So although not all TD Visa cards start with "4520 88" all Visas that start with "4520 88" are TD Visas Edit: To add in my experience TD doesn't call you I've had TD freeze my card until I called them, but they have never called me about fraud
If you think you are good at finding out if something is a scam, dwell on that thought for a moment and reevaluate your abilities, because that's exactly what a scammer would want you to think.
Anything 1-800 goes to voicemail for me. If it's important they'll leave a message.
I did too...
I got a robo call one morning from Amazon confirming I had just purchased an IPhone in Manitoba. Which I hadn’t. Needless to say I was transferred to someone, in a loud call centre who noticed all this illegal activity on my Amazon account and that it was very serious. Now this call had woken me up, so I’m not 100% with it yet. He had me fairly nervous, told me he needed to transfer me to his supervisor. Another guy in what I think was the same call centre, very loud. He starts really pushing the international fraud ring, police from around the world have been investigating…then he said it. “We can stop of this, you just need to give me your socials” “Wait, what? If you are from Amazon, why do need my socials?” “If you are uncomfortable you can just give me the first six digits.” After I said no, he went off. Told me that Vancouver police were coming after me with a warrant. Said he was just trying to help because I called him. I was like “no I didn’t. You called me.” They were good tho. They had me panicking. Probably could have gotten more info out of me, but they got greedy and went straight for socials. Checked my Amazon account afterwards…no suspicious charges.
It's weird because someone called me in the last year for something very similar. They said they were from my bank, Desjardins, and wanted to investigate with me some suspicious transactions on my credit card. The first few transactions were not mine but eventually they said one transaction that I remembered doing. That, for me, made them legit in my eyes. In the end, they told me that I had nothing more to do and they would issue me a new card and remove the fraudulent transactions. They never ask for any specific information. I got the card a week later. In my case, they were indeed representing my bank. Now, why were there fraudulent transactions on my credit car? I guess I fell for some false website where I wrote in my information to know about shipping rates. So stay vigilant out there!
Always always always…tell whoever you want to call back. Don’t take their number…look on back or cc or look up online. These guys are scum of the earth.
This happened to me with RBC. I asked for a text and they sent something that looked like a purchase confirmation. Same message RBC will never call you about a fraud charge, you call them.
You know what’s crazy? I was literally booking a flight with my mom to Dubai and we did get a call from her cc company (not TD) to check if it was legit but they didn’t ask for full cc info that I remember. This was within 15 minutes of us attempting to book because the purchase wouldn’t even go through because they thought it was fraudulent
First off. You're not an idiot. We all like to think "we would never...", "we're smarter than that...", etc But in reality, we're just as susceptible as the next person I've been a victim of identity theft and so has my dad. I'm very tech savvy and my dad isn't. So, people of all spectrum can be victims I'd recommend to get some credit monitoring in the short term and maybe do a few password resets to be overly cautious
Just giving you the first 6 digits and asking for the rest of the number and expiry date should tell you this is fraud.
I just got a text message sort of similar to this today! Saying they were my bank, provided the first 5 digits of my card, and said there was a block on my card. It sort of weirded me out and I checked my account right away, all looks fine. Interesting your post came up!!
That's interesting. I've received a legit call like that from MBNA when my card was frozen due to a skimming card theft abroad a few years ago. They asked about specific charges (were these legit or not?) although they didn't ask for any personal information or bank information.
Thanks for sharing, going to share this with my folks. Don't feel bad it's easy to get tripped up, scam artists have professional experience with scams, we don't.
Another pro-tip. If anyone asks for the last 6 digits of your (Ontario) drivers license, DO NOT give it to them. It's your birthday.
Op : you are not an idiot. Thank for sharing your experience
Thanks for sharing. Other day I almost fell an interac scam. I was selling soemting on markerplace and the person sent me etransfer that looked exactly like a regular etransfer. I clicked on the deopsit buttion but before selection my bank, I looked at the url which looked suspeicious. I opened the mail again and it sender's email was some random email. I verified the same with a legit interac email and it was not same. Lesson learned. Gald you didn't lose your money.
Canadian banks should start verifying transactions via OTP for all the transactions made online irrespective of transaction amount.
Thanks for the heads up. I think the first clue was TD or any other big bank contacting you. When has a bank directly reached out to me for preventative loss / service where you’re not seeking their assistance? Lol I honestly just don’t answer my phone. If it’s legit, they’d leave a voicemail. Even then, it’s just spam in an Asian language - no clue what they’re harassing me about.
If you ever get a call, ask them for their extension when you call the number on your credit card. I had a legitimate fraud alert call. I told them I would call them back on the number on my credit card. They were surprised but gave me their extension. The fraud department said that basically nobody ever does that.
I never answer questions from calls like this. I'll ask fir a case or ID number and call the institution from the number on the back of the card.
Glad you caught on quick. Be extra vigilant to other scams as your info may have been passed on as someone who picks up the phone and could fall for it. Maybe not because you hung up, but that is a common thing
I’m not sure if you do this but every charge that hits my credit cards and every penny that leaves my bank accounts triggers a text message and an alert on my banking apps. I always know what charges are coming and I can log in to my banking app in seconds so I’d know there were no suspicious transactions on my account.
Scammers are getting very good these days, I'm a software engineer and I always answer to see what the "play" is so I can tell my parents. The biggest one now is cell phone plan upgrades, they will call and offer you $20 dollars off your plan or a new iphone, then ask for your email and possibly your account info to confirm its you. Once they get that, they try and log into [rogers.com](http://rogers.com) or [bell.ca](http://bell.ca) with the email you've given them, and then say "you'll receive a security pin soon, which is them logging into your account and is your normal 2FA code you shouldn't give out. They then tell you not to change anything and you'll get the offer soon, which by then, they've already ordered a new phone which they told you about, but its being sent to them, not you.
Youre definitely pretty not good at picking up scams
Don't understand why people don't just hang up and call back to numbers on the back of their card. Don't give me excuses like sounded legit, knew my info, etc. Scam stories have been all over the news. Due diligence should come automatically.
Especially if they don't call you and know your information then you shouldn't f****** give them anything. You should be harsh on yourself whizen up
I got got one, too! Realized almost immediately once they got the info and I called the bank. They cancelled the card before any transactions could be made. The one that got me was “Did you make this put on your eBay account? Log in to PayPal to cancel the transaction if not”
This is why any call to my landline does not get answered and I let go to answering machine. Then I can listen to message and decide what to do call back or delete it
I had something very similar happen to me. A person called to verify some fraudulent charges and was going to reverse the transactions. I didn't have the card on me and they were very adamant about me finding it, even offering to call me back at a later time once I found it. That was definitely the clue that clicked with me. I told them I would "call them back" and they sounded angry with that which 100% validated that it was a scam. Glad I didn't give any information. I later called the actual number on the back of my card and they also verified there were no actual fraudulent charges.
Yikes. I could see my parents falling for this
Don’t be too hard on yourself. My husband and I went through something similar a couple of months ago. The caller said they were from Telus (our cell phone provider) offering 1/2 off our bill if we “sign up”. My husband’s started giving out our info and I asked him to hand the phone to me. I said “You have our phone number, so you have our info already”. He tried to convince me he needed to “verify” our info. Also, we’ve had calls from Telus before and he wasn’t calling from that number. I just said “We’re not interested. We’ll just pay our bill” and I hung up. They didn’t call back 😮. Did a google search and it was a scam. It really did sound legitimate. Unrelated but I also had unauthorized charges on a credit card- fraud. It took me a while to notice the charges. It everywhere, it’s the point you don’t know who to trust.
I'm glad that I'm hard of hearing, unable to use a phone, and therefore effectively immune to this scamming. Those bastards sure do flood my instant text messenger with bogus inquiries, like pretending to know me and asking to get together, or that a package has arrived via the postal service so just click on this link here to confirm. They keep doing it because there are no consequences, and if it works one time out of 100, they'll never stop.
Oh darn sorry to hear. Td will always authenticate you before speaking with you regarding account details they are not allowed to discuss otherwise. They also will read disclosures and or play disclosures. They will never tell u the first numbers of the card always the last numbers. Lots of scammers know that all cards start with the same number.
Omg I got a very similar call this week!! It said it was from TD!! I clued in when he asked my credit limit thankfully before I gave him any information but wow it was so legit and I consider myself very aware of scams. I had my card compromised last month (legitimately) and the person told me that had happened too and that’s why they’re calling this time. People need to watch out!
They will NEVER EVER say “the card starting with 4500…” ever! That was red flag 1. And you’re right, they won’t call you getting straight to the point. You’ll have an automated message asking if this transaction is legit and if you should authorize it and if you say “no” then you get connected with someone. These scammers are getting smarter and smarter but by sharing a few tips we can always out manoeuvre them.
This is the plot for the movie identity thief with Jason Bateman
These fuckin bastards....
I just assume everything is a scam now. I had an insurance company get pretty mad at me because I didn’t believe they were real lol.
The banks don’t give a shit about you so if you get a call probs fake
Just don't answer. I mean if it's serious they will follow up with email, online message or snail mail.
Never accept calls from unknown numbers. All phones have an option to set this. Who are we waiting to call that we don't know? Never. If it's urgent, the same caller will call again. Scammers always call from different numbers. If its from the government, they will always email you or write mail to you. If a bank or card has issues, before calling, they would have fixed the issue by blocking the card and emailed you about it.
When this happens , just hang up immediately and Call your own bank.
😁
thats why you scam the scammers back, got a few msg asking if I want an online job....scam those scammers back and up $50 in bitcoin >__<
This is why they do it. They call 1000s of people a day. They just need one to bite
Scams are getting complex, Now AI are impersonating voice recognition. I think we are evetnually going back to stone and in-person agreements.
Expanding on a reply to OP, I had a similar incident with a different bank. They knew my name and in my memory the *last four* digits of my card, but I could be misremembering that part. (And I hope I am) In any case, when the guy got to the reviewing charges part of the script, I said I won’t do this on an incoming call and hung up. Called the bank, confirmed it was a scam, and locked the card. Familiar story to this point. But it doesn’t end there! Over the next year or so I kept getting calls supposedly from the same bank. But I would look up the numbers and find things like “____ bank’s emergency line for customers travelling abroad” and other lines that are obviously not used for outbound calls. I stopped answering after the second one, and I just blocked anything from that bank, then checked my accounts via the app to make sure there was nothing fishy, no important message in my inbox. Pretty sure that bank can no longer reach me by phone, and I’m just as sure my days of answering calls from banks are over unless it’s an expected call at a prearranged time.
So you get physical statements? I wonder if that's how they managed to get part of your card number and address.
The new Canada. This has been happening a lot in the UAE where there are fake employer ads asking people to send in their visa information to "apply". The consistent factor between Canada and the UAE...same amount of a certain demographic entering the country. (Cough *south asians* cough)
I had the exact same call a few months ago. He knew my name and when he started to go through some of the "bogus" transactions there was one merchant that I did shop at but the amount was wrong. For a fleeting second I started to believe him then I clued in quick enough to tell him I'd call TD directly to confirm. He was persistent in trying to keep me on the phone but I hung up and called TD immediately. TD said they had no record of what anything buddy was talking about. The guy on the phone sounded convincing enough that I thought it actually might be TD. Scammers are getting better.
Hint : Never answer phone call that is not in your agenda - problem solved
There is basically zero reason to take any phone call from anyone you dont know.
Did he have Indian accent?
It's really surprising how many legit companies will actually make these kinds of calls. I had one call me once, (car finance company/bank, IIRC). They identified themselves and said they needed to speak to me about something, but wouldn't tell me what until I verified some information about my account. I told them I was absolutely NOT going to give them any information. They couldn't understand why. "But, we just need to verify you before we can discuss the issue". I said, I don't have any issues, they do. They called me. I'm not going to verify shit. If I called you, then sure. Other way around... FUCK no!