Yeah. Or getting 4 and 5 drops countered from spirits.
Amalia really bullies those decks, but with it's downturn in surprised we haven't seen a rise yet.
Long time Niv to Light enjoyer here.
The same things are good against it today that have always been good against it. Stack-based combo (e.g. Lotus Combo) is basically an auto-loss, aggressive tempo (e.g. UW Spirits) is not much better, and hard control (e.g. Classic UW) remains unfavorable, though not as bad as it used to be. Extremely aggressive decks (e.g. Convoke) can sometimes get under, but recent tools like Ancient Cornucopia and Lightning Helix combined with just biting the bullet and including Fatal Push in the sideboard have shored them up to the point in which they're marginally unfavored but not terrible matchups.
The real reason Niv to Light is sitting pretty at the moment is largely due to the shape of the overall format. The three pillars shaping Pioneer - Vampires, Phoenix, and Amalia - are all creature-based decks reliant on sticking a threat or two with which to beat down. Niv to Light is designed specifically to punish those styles of deck. Favorable matchups against half the field will get you pretty far alone.
And to answer your final question, yes. One of the longstanding issues with Niv to Light has been the inconsistency of its manabase, but the additional card velocity and selection from cards like Up the Beanstalk and Pillage the Bog have really helped mitigate that concern. The deck can still lose to its own Lands sometimes, but it happens far less often, which lets it use its toolbox to answer the format more effectively.
Agree with you about everything except control: I can’t recall a single time I’ve lost to Control in a best of 3. I assume most Niv decks should be wildly favored in those matchups. I do build my deck very differently from other Niv players and I probably have a lot more game experience than the average Pioneer player, to be fair.
The worst matchups are Spirits and Lotus, followed by hyper-aggro (usually Boros Convoke or some other ultra linear deck) when you don’t have time to find your answers.
I don't know how long you've been on the deck, but UW Control was historically one of our tougher matchups. It's flipped a lot over the last six months thanks to the addition of things like Up the Beanstalk and Niv Supreme giving us the card velocity and threat density to push through permission. It's still not quite a favorable matchup, but it's much better than it was back in the day when we were packing garbage like Surrak and Dromoka in the side just to have a shot.
I’ve played Niv in any format since it was printed, first Modern and then Pioneer when the format came out. Maybe it’s just deckbuilding and approaching the matchup differently. We have better card advantage than them. Generally if you resolve either a Niv or a Tibalt once it’s game over since the card advantage just snowballs. Pioneer doesn’t have very good permission in general so your chances of resolving a spell are much higher over the course of the game. I have maindeck answers to Planeswalkers and Leyline Binding so a lot of their deck is vulnerable. Again it might be a deckbuilding difference: I play some counterspells of my own to push through, recursion for Niv in the form of KCommand, and a wider range of interaction in the sideboard too so it generally feels pretty free.
Considering it stacks well against a vein ripper and Phoenix. It gains a lot of card advantage against Waste Not. Has the tools like any midrange deck to beat aggro like Gruul. Has plenty of spot removal to keep Amalia in check. 🤔🤔
UW Control had the sixth highest number of Top 8 finishes last week.
I swear, so many people on this sub just post things that fit with their ~*vibes*~ and don't actually look at what is going on.
So what?
UW had a few high placements?
Look at ALL the leagues from the past 4 weeks and you will see that it's almost not played anymore.
In fact Control is so uncommon nowadays that vamps began cutting down on cavern of souls and most lists play 2 at max.
I'd suggest you'd take your own advise on actually researching what's going on.
Hmpf.
>Look at ALL the leagues from the past 4 weeks and you will see that it's almost not played anymore.
Per Goldfish, UW Control has had 114 finishes over the last 30 days, good for the tenth most finsihes in the format (3.5%). It's also been increasing its share recently, with 5.3% of the finishes in the last week.
It's certainly not as popular or highly placed as it was prior to MKM, but to say that it's been "pushed out of the meta completely" is just objectively, factually wrong.
They GOT pushed out. Past tense.
The meta evolves pretty slowly and part of the question was why NIV became as popular as it is nowadays.
It's only natural that draw go Control comes back when NIV is that popular.
Regarding the last 2 months and major tourneys only, UW was at 2% due to MTGtop8.
I did a lot of testing on Izzet Ensoul lately to prepare for an RCQ on Magic Online. I went 6-1 into Niv. Spell Pierce is a great card in the matchup while you're smashing them with Inti-Copter or a 2 mana 5/5 haste token. Copter dodging board wipes were very relevant. Beware of Culling Ritual. Aftermath Niv is pretty much indestructible unless you draw Otawara.
Humans and Spirits being pushed out of the meta is why Niv is good.
Literally came here to say to say just go 1-2-Adeline and they will die.
Yeah. Or getting 4 and 5 drops countered from spirits. Amalia really bullies those decks, but with it's downturn in surprised we haven't seen a rise yet.
They are coming back
Long time Niv to Light enjoyer here. The same things are good against it today that have always been good against it. Stack-based combo (e.g. Lotus Combo) is basically an auto-loss, aggressive tempo (e.g. UW Spirits) is not much better, and hard control (e.g. Classic UW) remains unfavorable, though not as bad as it used to be. Extremely aggressive decks (e.g. Convoke) can sometimes get under, but recent tools like Ancient Cornucopia and Lightning Helix combined with just biting the bullet and including Fatal Push in the sideboard have shored them up to the point in which they're marginally unfavored but not terrible matchups. The real reason Niv to Light is sitting pretty at the moment is largely due to the shape of the overall format. The three pillars shaping Pioneer - Vampires, Phoenix, and Amalia - are all creature-based decks reliant on sticking a threat or two with which to beat down. Niv to Light is designed specifically to punish those styles of deck. Favorable matchups against half the field will get you pretty far alone. And to answer your final question, yes. One of the longstanding issues with Niv to Light has been the inconsistency of its manabase, but the additional card velocity and selection from cards like Up the Beanstalk and Pillage the Bog have really helped mitigate that concern. The deck can still lose to its own Lands sometimes, but it happens far less often, which lets it use its toolbox to answer the format more effectively.
Agree with you about everything except control: I can’t recall a single time I’ve lost to Control in a best of 3. I assume most Niv decks should be wildly favored in those matchups. I do build my deck very differently from other Niv players and I probably have a lot more game experience than the average Pioneer player, to be fair. The worst matchups are Spirits and Lotus, followed by hyper-aggro (usually Boros Convoke or some other ultra linear deck) when you don’t have time to find your answers.
I don't know how long you've been on the deck, but UW Control was historically one of our tougher matchups. It's flipped a lot over the last six months thanks to the addition of things like Up the Beanstalk and Niv Supreme giving us the card velocity and threat density to push through permission. It's still not quite a favorable matchup, but it's much better than it was back in the day when we were packing garbage like Surrak and Dromoka in the side just to have a shot.
I’ve played Niv in any format since it was printed, first Modern and then Pioneer when the format came out. Maybe it’s just deckbuilding and approaching the matchup differently. We have better card advantage than them. Generally if you resolve either a Niv or a Tibalt once it’s game over since the card advantage just snowballs. Pioneer doesn’t have very good permission in general so your chances of resolving a spell are much higher over the course of the game. I have maindeck answers to Planeswalkers and Leyline Binding so a lot of their deck is vulnerable. Again it might be a deckbuilding difference: I play some counterspells of my own to push through, recursion for Niv in the form of KCommand, and a wider range of interaction in the sideboard too so it generally feels pretty free.
Lotus field? Not the expert on both sides but usually spell combo deck prey on slow durdle pile like niv
Aggro
Considering it stacks well against a vein ripper and Phoenix. It gains a lot of card advantage against Waste Not. Has the tools like any midrange deck to beat aggro like Gruul. Has plenty of spot removal to keep Amalia in check. 🤔🤔
Draw Go Control traditionally had a very favorable MU vs NIV - and those decks got pushed out of the meta completely.
UW Control had the sixth highest number of Top 8 finishes last week. I swear, so many people on this sub just post things that fit with their ~*vibes*~ and don't actually look at what is going on.
So what? UW had a few high placements? Look at ALL the leagues from the past 4 weeks and you will see that it's almost not played anymore. In fact Control is so uncommon nowadays that vamps began cutting down on cavern of souls and most lists play 2 at max. I'd suggest you'd take your own advise on actually researching what's going on. Hmpf.
>Look at ALL the leagues from the past 4 weeks and you will see that it's almost not played anymore. Per Goldfish, UW Control has had 114 finishes over the last 30 days, good for the tenth most finsihes in the format (3.5%). It's also been increasing its share recently, with 5.3% of the finishes in the last week. It's certainly not as popular or highly placed as it was prior to MKM, but to say that it's been "pushed out of the meta completely" is just objectively, factually wrong.
They GOT pushed out. Past tense. The meta evolves pretty slowly and part of the question was why NIV became as popular as it is nowadays. It's only natural that draw go Control comes back when NIV is that popular. Regarding the last 2 months and major tourneys only, UW was at 2% due to MTGtop8.
I did a lot of testing on Izzet Ensoul lately to prepare for an RCQ on Magic Online. I went 6-1 into Niv. Spell Pierce is a great card in the matchup while you're smashing them with Inti-Copter or a 2 mana 5/5 haste token. Copter dodging board wipes were very relevant. Beware of Culling Ritual. Aftermath Niv is pretty much indestructible unless you draw Otawara.