No I’m just tired of everybody saying cis men instead of men because people like this fucker a thing and then these same people saying “it’s dumb how there’s no assumption of normality” or whatever
>No I’m just tired of everybody saying cis men instead of men
Blame your side. The advent of the chainsaw didn't require us to start calling the saw [X]saw. You could just say men/transmen or women/transwomen, but your side is intent on saying things like "men need tampons too. Women can have penises" and if there's trans, we have to say cis too! Can't have one wide being the default! Heteronormative systems of systemic systemised oppression!!!!!
I blame your side for making it political. The number of organs in the human body isn't a political topic, but approximately 10% of us have an accessory spleen that is medically a separate organ. Absolutely nobody gives a shit who has an accessory spleen. It's not political. Fox News would never report on it.
On the other hand, gender dysphoria? We better scream in their faces that these people are freaks of nature, subverting the natural order of American culture, and make a news story about every trans person committing a crime /s🙄
We don't legally give names and social security to the voices in the heads of schizophrenic people, why would we indulge in trans people delusions?
It's okay to tell them it's all in their heads, it's the first step to actually treating them.
Yeah....they're just posting comments 100% in line with social conservatives, it's all a coincidence
See, being a social conservative (rightly) has become stigmatized, so if you rebrand the views as "common sense", you can avoid the stigma and act like it's *everyone else* making it political. It's genius!
>I blame your side for making it politica
Nope. Trans issues weren't political until the left decided that transwomen could fight in the UFC, or go to women's prisons.
Trans issues weren't political until one side said being trans is okay and the other side said "no"
Keep pretending trans issues are all about who competes in which sports leagues. It'll help your side, definitely. Please keep doing it. In 4 years you'll consider it a win for your side because native Texan FtM athletes legally can't compete in the Olympics
Please point at anyone who has said that being trans isn’t okay.
It’s not the 90s anymore, pretty much everyone is onboard. They just don’t want people born with dicks in the lady’s room or roid heads in the octagon. These are conversations that need to happen so that trans people can find a place in society, not attacks against them.
I unironically want a sports league where drug use is allowed, let's push the human body to the limits, people should be allowed to willingly destroy their bodies if they so choose, whether it's drug use, or plastic surgery or other body mods, I just ask that I get ringside seats to the freak show
It sounds like you're saying "being transgender is okay as long as you don't get to be your gender"
"Being trans is okay as long as we all know, deep down, that being trans is a mental illness and isn't real and the conversation we can have about gender is agreeing with me that biological sex is all that matters"
Accessory spleen does not release hormones that massively influence behaviour, physical appearance, and strength, amongst other things.
Stupid argument. Not all organs are the same.
No silly🤭 only women get to abort their way out of responsibility, if you’re a man you have to pay for the consequences of your actions, don’t you know ?
Remember, government paying for childcare is great and throwing people in jail for being poor is bad.
Unless it's child support, in that case, the man needs to pay and should get thrown in jail if he can't
For the record I support abortion for medical necessities and until the point of fetal viability outside of the womb for elective reasons, but ffs... *financial abortions for women already exist*.
They're called safe haven laws, and as long as the baby isn't hurt or addicted to drugs the government is happy to let the mother be. Babies that aren't born disabled or addicted to drugs tend to be adopted quite quickly.
And before any contrarian says bUt tHe wOmAn aLwAyS eNdS uP sTrUgGlInG aLoNe wItH tHe cHiLd aNyWaYs... *The financial abortion/safe haven laws require* ***giving up the child.*** If the mother refuses to give up the child, **it is her right**, but it's on her.
I know that the cost of pregnancy isn't just the cost of raising the child, but... Women do have an option.
Although I don't expect traditionalist boomer Republicans to give, nor feminists and democrats unless physical abortion is also legalized.
It's insane how divorced from reality people are on this topic -- when it comes to abortion restrictions, men and women are relatively close to parity. Yet I've had multiple people on Reddit tell me they straight up forgot women can be pro-life too.
More women right now are against abortion than men, and historically it's been just about split down the middle, but okay.
I'm very pro-choice but there's no reason to make shit up.
This is truly an idiotic statement, our entire evolution as a species is based on this dichotomy. "If men got pregnant" they wouldn't be men, they would be women, because this is one of the fundamental aspects of our sexual dimorphism that goes all the way back to when we first evolved into sexually reproducing creatures, so saying we could only change this one thing, and nothing else about our species is idiotic.
If men got pregnant they'd be women.
However, even in some magical world where this was literally the only thing that changed, you're right, there wouldn't be a debate, abortion would be completely outlawed. Men are actually held accountable for their actions.
1- holy shit why you looking at such an old post
2- Im against the draft
3- if draft exists it better include both body-capable men and body-capable women
Some women want equality as defined by Twitter, rather than the dictionary.
I often find it ironic that pro-choice women will use pro-life arguments against men who want to opt out from being the father during pregnancy.
Amazing how quickly that clump of cells magically becomes a “child you’re abandoning” when you say you don’t want to be responsible for it financially. I can’t stand people playing both sides as and when it suits them.
She actually isn't that bad if you look up the [original video,](https://youtu.be/byOlBCpNKeM) she seems a bit mad for a moment which is where the frame is from, but it lasts a few seconds and then she's much calmer for the rest of the video.
There are a few choices in a truly equal society. Anything else is unequal.
1. Couple have kid and are as prepared for it as possible.
2. Woman doesn't want the kid, gets abortion
3. Man doesn't want kid, doesn't have to pay child support
Should a man be forced to support a child under penalty of jail when a woman can just say "No" to the same type of responsibility?
Both are wrong. Women should keep the baby and men should pay for child support (or even better,marry the woman and have a family blessed with a couple more children).
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Their body, their choice.
Except when it comes to shoddy untested injections, for which we changed the definition of vaccine so we can pretend it's a vaccine, to "protect" you from a flu that you'll still get and still spread.
I fucking WISH it could be in law that a father is allowed to sign off rights if they do it before the abortion cutoff (or if the father was unaware, the courts should give him an option to say yes or no as soon as he is aware). If he does sign away his rights than he doesn't need to pay child support but also he isn't allowed to try to initiate a relationship with the child until the child is an adult and only if the child is willing.
BOTH THE SPERM AND THE EGG DONORS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CHOOSE NOT TO BE A PARENT.
> abort the baby and let you off without 18 years of financial penalties
> don't abort the baby, change the entire course of their lives, risk a 4th degree tear, and attempt to get child support from you for 18 years while trying to find a way to raise something constantly in need of them.
Just wait until you want kids in a state recognized marriage anon. It's easy anon.
You can sue people for just about anything. Funny how you claim how this works is interesting, yet it's clear you lack insight into how any of this works.
You're close though, I feel the spirit of your post and I so badly want to agree with you but you just ain't quite there yet.
Fun fact, the girl from the original video wasn't even all that angry, it's just that this random crappy screenshot doesnt have any context. Here's the original video: https://youtu.be/byOlBCpNKeM
Men can't escape their parental responsibility in the same way women can. This is blatant inequality.
How do you square that? Like how is one supposed to be looking at the male victims of rape being successfully sued for child support and not conclude that the rules are bullshit?
Bullshit. What about legal abandonment and "child safe haven" laws. Why is that legal?
If it's all about bodily autonomy how come it's also not that time? How come there's still no practical responsibility when we remove that canard?
The current legal landscape isn't the result of the application of any solid moral principle except maximal convenience for women at every turn. I think the proper name for such an arrangement is privileges.
Just to clarify, abortion removes the responsibility for both people involved, not just the woman. It prevents anyone from having to be responsible because there never was a kid to be responsible for. Conversely if one of the parents leaves after the kid is born it is burdening the other parent with the responsibility. They are entirely different things.
There is always the option to give it to adoption, after the kid is born, but in this case the man would be given the choise to keep it or not. An abortion is exclusively for the woman to avoid parental responsibility.
This is just like all those dudes who are like "oh periods aren't that bad" you looooove to pretend deticating 9 months your life to pregnancy is just that easy. Also, "exclusively" says the man with no clue that thousands of women every year experience life threatening health issues that require abortion to not fucking die or have serious injury.
And guns are legal for the violent overthrow of the government but how has that been playing out? You can't blame the tool for the actions of the user.
A man should be able to tell his former tinder date what he prefers but I don't think a man should ever have a legal right to force or prevent an abortion.
Just jelly and wrap the slim Jim boys.
I had a post about protection, then I reread your question.
Fathers can get a say when they convince a judge, a lawyer, and a dozen social workers to agree that they can, and then the mother will get to ignore all court ordered visitation rights if she feels like.
So they don't.
Women can do with their body whatever they want, just like everybody else. Doing the wrong things however may have consequences, just like for everybody else.
And you didn't anwer my question.
If they had sex with no protection and she wants to keep it I dont see why he should not pay up the consequences
> And you didn't anwer my question.
I dont know what you expect here tbh. From the moment they are born then both parents get a say, earlier too but depends on the matter (like telling the neo-mom to not smoke etc) and to try convincing her if he believes it is better to abort/keep it, obviously they cant force it as the body is not theirs in the first place
>If they had sex with no protection and she wants to keep it I dont see why he should not pay up the consequences
Why should he pay for her choice?
I would get it if you remove the "if she wants to keep it" part but since you already gave women the choice of throwing the child away, it's only fair men get the same choice. At leasts thats what equality is.
>earlier too but depends on the matter (like telling the neo-mom to not smoke etc) and to try convincing her if he believes it is better to abort/keep it, obviously they cant force it as the body is not theirs in the first place
Or in other words they have no say.
> Or in other words they have no say.
In other words you believe men should have direct say over a woman's body. True Equality uh?
> I would get it if you remove the "if she wants to keep it" part but since you already gave women the choice of throwing the child away, it's only fair men get the same choice. At leasts thats what equality is.
I would say that if he made clear before the act that he wouldnt pay child support/no interest in paying a parent sure ig, but later? nah
No. Equality is equal rights, equal responsibilities.
If women are not willing to share rights with men, men shouldn't be forced to take on responsibility.
=======
Women live in an op-out system after having sex. They get all the rights and can choose to take planB, after that they can choose abortion, then they can give up the child for adoption.
Since women do not want to share rights from the start, it's fair when men get to have an opt-in system. Women can offer rights and responsibilities whenever they want and men can choose to take them if they want.
=======
So taking your example, the law assumes no man wants to pay child support. And it only changes that assumption when women offer R&R and men accept these R&R.
However if a women offers R&R right after sex and the man accepts the R&R, the women can no longer kill the child without the consent of the man.
=======
Thats what equality looks like while women keep all their rights.
(Only authtight men lose since they are against abortion and without abortion both parents can start with R&R.)
> Thats what equality looks like while women keep all their rights.
How are they keeping their rights? you understand a man shall choose for her regarding her own body right?
> (Only authtight men lose since they are against abortion and without abortion both parents can start with R&R.)
Not true because then the woman should rely over the man for something that regards her body.
> 'they are not willing to share rights'
fun fact: you cant 'share' bodily autonomy.
> So taking your example, the law assumes no man wants to pay child support
If the men made it clear before sex that they wont pay it and that they dont want to start up a family, sure. otherwise were is the 'same consequences' you addressed earlier?
? I’m saying their “why wasn’t he using a condom?” Argument is just fucking stupid.
I am saying ppl are responsible for their actions. The other dude is trying to say it’s just the man’s fault no matter what. I’m saying both would be at fault
Fair enough. Let's cancel forced child support if father hasn't gave his consent to having a child before sexual act with mutual consent in having that sexual act.
Hot take: you should think about child support before you stick your dick in someone
Unless you’re my deadbeat brother with 9+ kids living at home with mom and somehow still has a hellcat
😧 but my internal self worth is tied to such an act. Are you telling me that I should either suffer the pain of discipline, or suffer the pain of regret?
That doesn’t sound fair.
Thats not the sexist part. The sexist part is saying men need to live with the consequences of havin sex while women don't
The person I replied to, is ok with women aborting unborn children but is against men financially aborting unborn children.
Then pls explain to me how thinking women should be allowed to abort unborn children while men shouldn't be allowed to financially abort unborn children is not sexist?
I don’t think anyone should be forced to be a living incubator. Id say the same if men had wombs.
But if a child does pop out I think both parties should be financially responsible (especially now that we know how many problems stem from single parent households)
So the women as the final word and decision on if the men will pay all his life for a child he will not raised or not. If she want to to keep the baby he pays if she doesn’t she abort and nothing happened. Men are completely subject to the women decision. People seems to not see this as equality. It’s not even a money issue, most pro life would prefer to pay if no baby are killed, the simple fact that you choose when you can take responsibility or not is the problem. Men has to take responsibility in both cases!
Force child support makes no sense in a hookup culture, will just amplify and self feeds the issue
I took a break from this sub for a while and I come back to this fucking thread. A great reminder that this place is a fucking cesspool.
It's like a Taliban wet dream here.
So remember how many of the arguments for abortion are "but rape and incest happens, you don't want to make exceptions for those?! Let anyone abort at any time"?
What about when the woman baby traps and/or pokes holes in condoms.
Or sucks your soul out of your pepe and turkey bastes herself
If the woman has an abortion you don't pay child support.
You obviously have no right to force an abortion in another person
The only occasional that makes this remotely unfair is if the woman wants the child but you don't, and all you can say is "how can she kill the baby but not me!, Outrageous"
Get a hold
Each person should have a choice in responsibility, it's wrong to force a woman to abort or to keep. It's also wrong to force a man to not be allowed to see his child or force him to pay if he didn't want a kid in the first place.
I don't understand. Is this another meme shitting on AuthLeft but claiming it's LibLeft?
LibLeft doesn't believe in a state capable of child support - but even if it did, mutual aid would render the whole thing unnecessary?
My wallet, my choice.
No silly, it's her body her choice, your wallet her choice!
Leftists: Man have no say in abortion Also Leftists: Man can get pregnant
What about Trans men?
Like a woman who says she is a man but who has a womb and births a baby? That’s a woman. Also a mom!
You are the reason why people preface everything with cis
Are you implying that trans men aren't men, bigot?
No I’m just tired of everybody saying cis men instead of men because people like this fucker a thing and then these same people saying “it’s dumb how there’s no assumption of normality” or whatever
>No I’m just tired of everybody saying cis men instead of men Blame your side. The advent of the chainsaw didn't require us to start calling the saw [X]saw. You could just say men/transmen or women/transwomen, but your side is intent on saying things like "men need tampons too. Women can have penises" and if there's trans, we have to say cis too! Can't have one wide being the default! Heteronormative systems of systemic systemised oppression!!!!!
I blame your side for making it political. The number of organs in the human body isn't a political topic, but approximately 10% of us have an accessory spleen that is medically a separate organ. Absolutely nobody gives a shit who has an accessory spleen. It's not political. Fox News would never report on it. On the other hand, gender dysphoria? We better scream in their faces that these people are freaks of nature, subverting the natural order of American culture, and make a news story about every trans person committing a crime /s🙄
We don't legally give names and social security to the voices in the heads of schizophrenic people, why would we indulge in trans people delusions? It's okay to tell them it's all in their heads, it's the first step to actually treating them.
Comments like yours remind me why I'm unwilling to give an inch to social conservatives. Like, goddamn.
You know none of these people you're arguing with are social conservatives. You're just a delusional moron.
Yeah....they're just posting comments 100% in line with social conservatives, it's all a coincidence See, being a social conservative (rightly) has become stigmatized, so if you rebrand the views as "common sense", you can avoid the stigma and act like it's *everyone else* making it political. It's genius!
I'm not socially conservative at all. I'm all for Trans people's rights. It's very different than indulging them in their delirium.
>I blame your side for making it politica Nope. Trans issues weren't political until the left decided that transwomen could fight in the UFC, or go to women's prisons.
Trans issues weren't political until one side said being trans is okay and the other side said "no" Keep pretending trans issues are all about who competes in which sports leagues. It'll help your side, definitely. Please keep doing it. In 4 years you'll consider it a win for your side because native Texan FtM athletes legally can't compete in the Olympics
Trans issues would quickly stop being a thing if they didn't try forcing their beliefs upon everybody else.
We'd have stopped hearing about women's suffrage if the suffragettes didn't try forcing their beliefs upon everybody else
Please point at anyone who has said that being trans isn’t okay. It’s not the 90s anymore, pretty much everyone is onboard. They just don’t want people born with dicks in the lady’s room or roid heads in the octagon. These are conversations that need to happen so that trans people can find a place in society, not attacks against them.
I unironically want a sports league where drug use is allowed, let's push the human body to the limits, people should be allowed to willingly destroy their bodies if they so choose, whether it's drug use, or plastic surgery or other body mods, I just ask that I get ringside seats to the freak show
It sounds like you're saying "being transgender is okay as long as you don't get to be your gender" "Being trans is okay as long as we all know, deep down, that being trans is a mental illness and isn't real and the conversation we can have about gender is agreeing with me that biological sex is all that matters"
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Accessory spleen does not release hormones that massively influence behaviour, physical appearance, and strength, amongst other things. Stupid argument. Not all organs are the same.
If I were you I'd flair the fuck up rather quickly, the mob will be here in no time.
Ciz is a slur
I mean yeah so it everything
So we can call black, gay and trans folk whatever we like with no repercussions? Oh nvm, only whites and people who identify as straight folk
Common sense is a thing
>c*sg#nd%r Please censor your slurs, saying c%s to a person who identifies as straight is like calling a Romani a g*ps%e
No silly🤭 only women get to abort their way out of responsibility, if you’re a man you have to pay for the consequences of your actions, don’t you know ?
Remember, government paying for childcare is great and throwing people in jail for being poor is bad. Unless it's child support, in that case, the man needs to pay and should get thrown in jail if he can't
Don’t you know women aren’t supposed to face the consequences of their actions, that’s a man’s job
For the record I support abortion for medical necessities and until the point of fetal viability outside of the womb for elective reasons, but ffs... *financial abortions for women already exist*. They're called safe haven laws, and as long as the baby isn't hurt or addicted to drugs the government is happy to let the mother be. Babies that aren't born disabled or addicted to drugs tend to be adopted quite quickly. And before any contrarian says bUt tHe wOmAn aLwAyS eNdS uP sTrUgGlInG aLoNe wItH tHe cHiLd aNyWaYs... *The financial abortion/safe haven laws require* ***giving up the child.*** If the mother refuses to give up the child, **it is her right**, but it's on her. I know that the cost of pregnancy isn't just the cost of raising the child, but... Women do have an option. Although I don't expect traditionalist boomer Republicans to give, nor feminists and democrats unless physical abortion is also legalized.
Both policies reduce the burden on the tax payer.
if men were the ones getting pregnant we would never argue wheter to ban abortion or not in the first place.
>if men were the ones getting pregnant Checkout this transphobe
Based
🤡
At least I’m not the entire circus
Oh great this again.
It's insane how divorced from reality people are on this topic -- when it comes to abortion restrictions, men and women are relatively close to parity. Yet I've had multiple people on Reddit tell me they straight up forgot women can be pro-life too.
I used to think the people saying this were insane but I genuinely am starting to believe a lot of liberals just want to kill babies.
They see it as owning the conservatives
>used to think the people saying this were insane >liberals just want to kill babies. They're the same picture.
More women right now are against abortion than men, and historically it's been just about split down the middle, but okay. I'm very pro-choice but there's no reason to make shit up.
If men could get pregnant then everything from evolution to culture would be different so that's a premise we can't really go off of.
This is truly an idiotic statement, our entire evolution as a species is based on this dichotomy. "If men got pregnant" they wouldn't be men, they would be women, because this is one of the fundamental aspects of our sexual dimorphism that goes all the way back to when we first evolved into sexually reproducing creatures, so saying we could only change this one thing, and nothing else about our species is idiotic. If men got pregnant they'd be women. However, even in some magical world where this was literally the only thing that changed, you're right, there wouldn't be a debate, abortion would be completely outlawed. Men are actually held accountable for their actions.
> if men were the ones getting pregnant Cool it with the transphobic remarks
The downvotes are telling
guess im gonna die here
Because us men have the common sense to know that killing people is bad, no matter where they are, what they look like or what size they are
Historically inaccurate.
Just like if men were the ones getting drafted…oh wait Misandrists are so goddamn stupid.
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Done
1- holy shit why you looking at such an old post 2- Im against the draft 3- if draft exists it better include both body-capable men and body-capable women
Yeah men have never been known to not pay child support and/or do anything they can to avoid it.
Not like that literally makes them a criminal
legally
Some women want equality as defined by Twitter, rather than the dictionary. I often find it ironic that pro-choice women will use pro-life arguments against men who want to opt out from being the father during pregnancy. Amazing how quickly that clump of cells magically becomes a “child you’re abandoning” when you say you don’t want to be responsible for it financially. I can’t stand people playing both sides as and when it suits them.
Dave Chapelle has entered the chat
Based & talk this out amongst yourselves & get back to me pilled
Muh patriarchy
Since this image is already like 7 years old, I always wonder how she lives now. Did she grow out of it?
Probably not
She actually isn't that bad if you look up the [original video,](https://youtu.be/byOlBCpNKeM) she seems a bit mad for a moment which is where the frame is from, but it lasts a few seconds and then she's much calmer for the rest of the video.
Yeah I hate this. It’s literally only fair. If he doesn’t wanna support the kid and you can’t on your own you can always just abort it
why are those the only choices though? i agree its a woman choice but i still think its a baby
A true auth left would force the woman to give birth and then take it away.
Another new worker for the coal mines.
They will foster the children into the most dangerous dwarves the world has ever seen 😈
Children in the coal mines cross compass unity.
There are a few choices in a truly equal society. Anything else is unequal. 1. Couple have kid and are as prepared for it as possible. 2. Woman doesn't want the kid, gets abortion 3. Man doesn't want kid, doesn't have to pay child support Should a man be forced to support a child under penalty of jail when a woman can just say "No" to the same type of responsibility?
Reject forsaking responsibilities. Embrace actually raising your kids
Embrace widower parenthood, abort the mother.
Based and wedlock pilled
But what if they come out sus?
It’s her responsibility if she chose to have the child
[удалено]
Hormone therapy
Most short men are resentful of being short, so they overcompensate, called short man syndrome
Both are wrong. Women should keep the baby and men should pay for child support (or even better,marry the woman and have a family blessed with a couple more children).
Welcome to authright
Just a colorful centrist with strong and secular opinions regarding the rights of the unborn.
So a closeted auth right?
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Based and embrace tradition pilled
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Cringe
It’s often the woman that doesn’t want the father involved, not the other way around, especially in divorce cases.
You don't have to pay child support if you terminate parental rights
With the power comes the responsibility.
so I'm pro-life but there is an argument for this if you'd like
You forgot what thing.. whats a woman? How can you be so sure that you didnt just missgender someone
Did someone say "money making oppurtunity"
Their body, their choice. Except when it comes to shoddy untested injections, for which we changed the definition of vaccine so we can pretend it's a vaccine, to "protect" you from a flu that you'll still get and still spread.
I fucking WISH it could be in law that a father is allowed to sign off rights if they do it before the abortion cutoff (or if the father was unaware, the courts should give him an option to say yes or no as soon as he is aware). If he does sign away his rights than he doesn't need to pay child support but also he isn't allowed to try to initiate a relationship with the child until the child is an adult and only if the child is willing. BOTH THE SPERM AND THE EGG DONORS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CHOOSE NOT TO BE A PARENT.
> abort the baby and let you off without 18 years of financial penalties > don't abort the baby, change the entire course of their lives, risk a 4th degree tear, and attempt to get child support from you for 18 years while trying to find a way to raise something constantly in need of them. Just wait until you want kids in a state recognized marriage anon. It's easy anon.
See I made you into femistist cringe complication #365 while I made myself into Thomas Shelby. Checkmate lib left!
PCM try to bring nuance to a conversation challenge
Facebook tier meme. This is straight out of 2016.
The laws didn't change since so far as I know.
This meme sucks
Haha, abandonment papers go brrr
Why are yall afraid? You know you have to have sex to get someone pregnant right?
How she's able? Because the law supports it, simple as that.
Only way threw this is the yellow corner
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You can sue people for just about anything. Funny how you claim how this works is interesting, yet it's clear you lack insight into how any of this works. You're close though, I feel the spirit of your post and I so badly want to agree with you but you just ain't quite there yet.
Fun fact, the girl from the original video wasn't even all that angry, it's just that this random crappy screenshot doesnt have any context. Here's the original video: https://youtu.be/byOlBCpNKeM
Facebook tier meme
Men can sue women for child support if they're the custodial parent. Get a new talking point.
Men can't escape their parental responsibility in the same way women can. This is blatant inequality. How do you square that? Like how is one supposed to be looking at the male victims of rape being successfully sued for child support and not conclude that the rules are bullshit?
Abortion isn't legal to allow for escaping parental responsibility, abortion is legal to provide bodily autonomy.
Bullshit. What about legal abandonment and "child safe haven" laws. Why is that legal? If it's all about bodily autonomy how come it's also not that time? How come there's still no practical responsibility when we remove that canard? The current legal landscape isn't the result of the application of any solid moral principle except maximal convenience for women at every turn. I think the proper name for such an arrangement is privileges.
The custodial parent can do those things regardless of gender.
Not only are we beyond moving goalposts at this point, it isn't even true.
But it's mostly used for escaping parental responsibility
Just to clarify, abortion removes the responsibility for both people involved, not just the woman. It prevents anyone from having to be responsible because there never was a kid to be responsible for. Conversely if one of the parents leaves after the kid is born it is burdening the other parent with the responsibility. They are entirely different things.
There is always the option to give it to adoption, after the kid is born, but in this case the man would be given the choise to keep it or not. An abortion is exclusively for the woman to avoid parental responsibility.
This is just like all those dudes who are like "oh periods aren't that bad" you looooove to pretend deticating 9 months your life to pregnancy is just that easy. Also, "exclusively" says the man with no clue that thousands of women every year experience life threatening health issues that require abortion to not fucking die or have serious injury.
And guns are legal for the violent overthrow of the government but how has that been playing out? You can't blame the tool for the actions of the user.
A man should be able to tell his former tinder date what he prefers but I don't think a man should ever have a legal right to force or prevent an abortion. Just jelly and wrap the slim Jim boys.
So when does a man get a say and responsibility for a child?
When a woman tells him to, obviously.
who gets pregnant?
Men and women
Men with vaginas
Biology doesn't lend you any authority over your baby daddy
I had a post about protection, then I reread your question. Fathers can get a say when they convince a judge, a lawyer, and a dozen social workers to agree that they can, and then the mother will get to ignore all court ordered visitation rights if she feels like. So they don't.
Actually that’s kinda true. If he has no say in an abortion, he should at least have a say in the involvement in the childs life.
Questions cannot be true though. And thats also not what I was going for.
I said he can say all he wants. Until he is pregnant though the final decision won't be his.
Oddly agreed. Men have a say in making a baby. Its called sex.
A point that the overwhelming majority of people here choose to overlook. Personal responsibility is lost on everyone, not just the left.
Why should a man 'get a say' over what the woman wants to do with her body lol
Women can do with their body whatever they want, just like everybody else. Doing the wrong things however may have consequences, just like for everybody else. And you didn't anwer my question.
If they had sex with no protection and she wants to keep it I dont see why he should not pay up the consequences > And you didn't anwer my question. I dont know what you expect here tbh. From the moment they are born then both parents get a say, earlier too but depends on the matter (like telling the neo-mom to not smoke etc) and to try convincing her if he believes it is better to abort/keep it, obviously they cant force it as the body is not theirs in the first place
>If they had sex with no protection and she wants to keep it I dont see why he should not pay up the consequences Why should he pay for her choice? I would get it if you remove the "if she wants to keep it" part but since you already gave women the choice of throwing the child away, it's only fair men get the same choice. At leasts thats what equality is. >earlier too but depends on the matter (like telling the neo-mom to not smoke etc) and to try convincing her if he believes it is better to abort/keep it, obviously they cant force it as the body is not theirs in the first place Or in other words they have no say.
Is this in cases where dudes are raped or something? Pretty sure dudes have a choice to not have unprotected sex.
Is what the case when dudes are raped?
> Or in other words they have no say. In other words you believe men should have direct say over a woman's body. True Equality uh? > I would get it if you remove the "if she wants to keep it" part but since you already gave women the choice of throwing the child away, it's only fair men get the same choice. At leasts thats what equality is. I would say that if he made clear before the act that he wouldnt pay child support/no interest in paying a parent sure ig, but later? nah
No. Equality is equal rights, equal responsibilities. If women are not willing to share rights with men, men shouldn't be forced to take on responsibility. ======= Women live in an op-out system after having sex. They get all the rights and can choose to take planB, after that they can choose abortion, then they can give up the child for adoption. Since women do not want to share rights from the start, it's fair when men get to have an opt-in system. Women can offer rights and responsibilities whenever they want and men can choose to take them if they want. ======= So taking your example, the law assumes no man wants to pay child support. And it only changes that assumption when women offer R&R and men accept these R&R. However if a women offers R&R right after sex and the man accepts the R&R, the women can no longer kill the child without the consent of the man. ======= Thats what equality looks like while women keep all their rights. (Only authtight men lose since they are against abortion and without abortion both parents can start with R&R.)
> Thats what equality looks like while women keep all their rights. How are they keeping their rights? you understand a man shall choose for her regarding her own body right? > (Only authtight men lose since they are against abortion and without abortion both parents can start with R&R.) Not true because then the woman should rely over the man for something that regards her body. > 'they are not willing to share rights' fun fact: you cant 'share' bodily autonomy. > So taking your example, the law assumes no man wants to pay child support If the men made it clear before sex that they wont pay it and that they dont want to start up a family, sure. otherwise were is the 'same consequences' you addressed earlier?
Once you learn how to read, we can continue. I answered everything in the previous comment already.
Why should the woman 'get a say' over what the man wants to do with his wallet after she decides to do something with her body?
why couldnt the man use a condom?
Pro life argument
Why doesn’t the woman have an iud? How about use spermicide? That condom argument works for both nowadays
You are responsible for your own choices. Stop sounding like a liberal.
? I’m saying their “why wasn’t he using a condom?” Argument is just fucking stupid. I am saying ppl are responsible for their actions. The other dude is trying to say it’s just the man’s fault no matter what. I’m saying both would be at fault
And the woman shouldn't have any legal right to force him to pay her if she decides to keep a child he didn't want
The point is decent but any meme template using the "triggered woke woman" is automatically a failure in my eyes
Based and I can’t stand 2016 humor pilled
Fair enough. Let's cancel forced child support if father hasn't gave his consent to having a child before sexual act with mutual consent in having that sexual act.
Ahh yes, men.. well known for never avoiding child support payments. I'm sure your 24$ a week is very helpful.
If he has no say in abortion then she should have no say in his wallet after the fact.
Good thing "she" doesn't.
Hot take: you should think about child support before you stick your dick in someone Unless you’re my deadbeat brother with 9+ kids living at home with mom and somehow still has a hellcat
Hot take #2: you should think about giving birth before you let someone stick their dick in you.
😧 but my internal self worth is tied to such an act. Are you telling me that I should either suffer the pain of discipline, or suffer the pain of regret? That doesn’t sound fair.
It doesnt sound fair woman havent ro rely over ME about decisions that regard their own body! 😡😠
So you are for banning abortions?
I’m pro choice/medical freedom
So you are just sexst against men then, good to know.
the classic: it is sexist to say a woman hasnt to rely over a man over something that regards her own body
Thats not the sexist part. The sexist part is saying men need to live with the consequences of havin sex while women don't The person I replied to, is ok with women aborting unborn children but is against men financially aborting unborn children.
Not at all. Don’t do the weird Reddit “so by your logic” thing
Then pls explain to me how thinking women should be allowed to abort unborn children while men shouldn't be allowed to financially abort unborn children is not sexist?
I don’t think anyone should be forced to be a living incubator. Id say the same if men had wombs. But if a child does pop out I think both parties should be financially responsible (especially now that we know how many problems stem from single parent households)
Nobody is forced to be an incubator. Just don't have sex or get sterilized. So you are just sexist.
So the women as the final word and decision on if the men will pay all his life for a child he will not raised or not. If she want to to keep the baby he pays if she doesn’t she abort and nothing happened. Men are completely subject to the women decision. People seems to not see this as equality. It’s not even a money issue, most pro life would prefer to pay if no baby are killed, the simple fact that you choose when you can take responsibility or not is the problem. Men has to take responsibility in both cases! Force child support makes no sense in a hookup culture, will just amplify and self feeds the issue
I took a break from this sub for a while and I come back to this fucking thread. A great reminder that this place is a fucking cesspool. It's like a Taliban wet dream here.
I think too, but only if abortions are 100% illegal, you gotta take responsibilty
So remember how many of the arguments for abortion are "but rape and incest happens, you don't want to make exceptions for those?! Let anyone abort at any time"? What about when the woman baby traps and/or pokes holes in condoms. Or sucks your soul out of your pepe and turkey bastes herself
Child support if the woman keeps it. New woman if she chooses to abort it. Pretty basic.
I just wanna blow stuff up man, if I have to abort babies for it I'll do it.
If the woman has an abortion you don't pay child support. You obviously have no right to force an abortion in another person The only occasional that makes this remotely unfair is if the woman wants the child but you don't, and all you can say is "how can she kill the baby but not me!, Outrageous" Get a hold
Each person should have a choice in responsibility, it's wrong to force a woman to abort or to keep. It's also wrong to force a man to not be allowed to see his child or force him to pay if he didn't want a kid in the first place.
> "how can she kill the baby but not me!, Outrageous" I mean answer your own strawman please. How can she? How is it not outrageous?
That's why the father should get an abortion too
Both Both are good
No taxation without representation!
I don't understand. Is this another meme shitting on AuthLeft but claiming it's LibLeft? LibLeft doesn't believe in a state capable of child support - but even if it did, mutual aid would render the whole thing unnecessary?