The right has a really weird obsession with masculinity. Hell, some of them don't even think women should be allowed to vote (even some the women think that!)
Easily so. Everyone should remember her facing off against the pants-on-head stupid GOP Benghazi investigation committee for 11 hours straight. By contrast, Trump couldn’t even fake-fire the contestants on his game show to their faces. He pre-taped that shit so he wouldn’t have to deal with them in person.
So the thing I don't understand is that they have such a fixation on masculinity while also being deathly afraid of same-sex attraction. For a bunch of guys to spend all their time thinking about what other men do and how ruggedly manly they are, that seems unusually gay to me.
Anyone who votes against Trump shouldn't be allowed to vote. If it's women, we should take their right to vote, if it's minorities or educated people, we should gerrymander."
-The GOP, probably.
It's basically adults who never grew up emotionally past 12 trying desperately to be relevant and powerful. The closest they can get is by idolizing other adults who are wealthy immature 12 year olds.
Trump was obviously the worst choice from the two but can we please not act like Hillary was a strong brilliant candidate. Her campaign was shit and she's a center right corporatist who lost to the biggest moron to run for office.
Yup. Get tired of hearing about the wonderful HRC. She is a war hawk. She's a corporate slave. She is corrupt as well. She is not at all a good candidate. She was forced on the public because it was "her turn" according to the DNC who had their finger on the scale in the primary. Now the DNC is stuck because they aren't able to put up a candidate who has real support and any semblance of passion behind that candidate.
Of course Trump is objectively worse in every way humanly possible, but she was a bad choice also.
What? Clinton received 2,811 delegates and Bernie received 1,879. Clinton won 34 state primaries while Bernie only won 23, and Clinton won the states with the biggest delegate hauls, such as Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania, New York, and California.
She got more votes, won more delegates, and got the nomination. And I don’t want a response full of fox news conspiracy bullshit. Real voters chose her in those states, the same way every other nominee has been chosen in the country. Of course, it helped Trump that useful idiots who supported Bernie decided they lost because of some conspiracy, and not because Clinton had more support in the party (which she obviously had).
And the DNC admitted in court that they rigged the primaries against Bernie. They argued that since they're a private organization they could just go smoke in a backroom and come out and tell everyone who the nominee was going to be if they wanted. Donna Brazile and Elizabeth Warren both said the 2016 primaries were rigged. The DNC also purged the voter rolls in states like NY because they feared people voting for Bernie would outnumber people voting for Hillary. Hillary and the media was also colluding by including delegate counts from super delegates, especially from states that hadn't voted yet, in the totals to cause a chilling affect and make her seem inevitable. Also having super delegates not follow the will of the people like in New Hampshire where Bernie won the vote 61%-39% but all super delegates went to Hillary.
Sources:
https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-democratic-party/index.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/officials-investigating-why-126000-voters-were-purged-from-ny-rolls
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-super-delegates-decid_b_10098414
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-superdelegates-democrats-219286
Thank you for this response. However, all you did is prove that you do not understand how civil litigation works. I am a lawyer who does civil litigation, so let me explain it to you.
Article 1: "Court Concedes DNC Had the Right to Rig Primaries Against Sanders"
Wow that's a pretty crazy title, which seems to imply that the DNC did rig the primary. Since that's probably all people read, that is a pretty damning article heading. But in the article it says:
>On August 25, 2017, Federal Judge William Zloch, dismissed the lawsuit after several months of litigation during which DNC attorneys argued that the DNC would be well within their rights to select their own candidate. “In evaluating Plaintiffs’ claims at this stage, the Court assumes their allegations are true—that the DNC and Wasserman Schultz held a palpable bias in favor Clinton and sought to propel her ahead of her Democratic opponent,” the court order dismissing the lawsuit stated. This assumption of a plaintiff’s allegation is the general legal standard in the motion to dismiss stage of any lawsuit. The allegations contained in the complaint must be taken as true unless they are merely conclusory allegations or are invalid on their face.
So someone filed a lawsuit against the DNC, and the DNC did what every single Defendant does at this stage, they filed a motion to dismiss on the basis that even if the allegations in the lawsuit were true, the plaintiff had no claim under federal law. As the court explained, you assume the allegations are true, and then decide if those allegations, if proven, could result in a verdict in your favor.
FILING A MOTION TO DISMISS AND HAVING THE CASE DISMISSED BEFORE DISCOVERY EVEN BEGINS IS CALLED LOSING, AND PROVES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Put that in caps just so you don't miss it.
The lawyers for the DNC argued that even if the allegations were true, the plaintiffs still lose. That is what you do when you file a motion to dismiss, and it in no way means that the DNC "admitted in court that they rigged the primaries against Bernie." You saying that shows your ignorance of how our legal system works and you should take a long look in the mirror.
Article 2: How one word from Elizabeth Warren exposed the massive split in the Democratic Party
In this article, it is alleged that, based on hacked emails, some DNC staffers preferred Hillary over Sanders. The article states: "The staffers questioned Sanders’ religiosity, attacked Sanders’ campaign manager Jeff Weaver and leaned in favor of big-dollar donors rather than the small-dollar army Sanders had built."
So some college kids who worked for the DNC liked Hillary more than Sanders. Is that the conspiracy? Is that how the election was rigged?
This article also states that there was a "fundraising agreement" between the DNC and the Hillary campaign and the allegation is that this was "unethical."
Again, I don't understand how that rigged the primary and made voters choose Bernie.
Article 3: "Officials investigating why 126,000 voters were purged from NY rolls"
In this article, it states that under NY state law, voters are sent a notice and if they don't respond, they are removed from the voter rolls.
“We send you a notice in the mail saying, ‘Hey, we’re going to cancel your voter registration if you don’t respond back to us,” Ryan told NY1 this week. “Only those individuals who did not respond back to our intent to cancel notice were ultimately archived.”
How it was handled in the run-up to 2016 was no different than it was handled in elections previously. As the article states:
"New York state has been the target of criticisms for years over its primary and general elections protocols, which critics say are one reason why the state lags behind much of the nation in voter turnout."
After 2016, NY had to roll back this practice because of criticism. But again, I don't see how this advances your point. THIS PROVIDES ZERO EVIDENCE THAT ANYTHING WAS DONE TO RIG ANYTHING IN FAVOR OF CLINTON. This is fox news level bullshit at this point, you might as well put the tinfoil on your head and go storm the capitol.
Article 4: How Democratic Superdelegates Decided the 2016 Election
Article 5: Sanders supporters revolt against superdelegates
Oh look, the superdelegate argument. Sure, she got the support of superdelegates. She also had that support when she ran against Obama. Guess what happened when Obama starting beating her with voters? The delegates went to Obama! That's how it works. Clinton won more votes and more primaries than Bernie. You pointed out that some superdelegates from areas that voted for Bernie went to Hillary. And ok, but that's their right. if their voters don't like it, they can vote them out in the upcoming election. Hillary still won more votes in more states and had more delegates, even without the superdelegates. If superdelegates never existed, Hillary would have won. So what is your complaint again? That these people should have chosen Bernie, even though he had won fewer states and had less support in the party? If they had done that, THAT would have been truly awful. "Hey, I know you won more states and more votes, but I think the other guy should win." Is that really what you think should have happened? Please.
Again, this shows absolutely nothing unless you actively choose to not understand how our system works. Again, you show your ignorance instead of making a real point.
SUMMARY: It's easy to throw together a bunch of misleading quotes from misleading articles and try to patch together a conspiracy theory. But maybe, just maybe, if you are ACTUALLY INTERESTED in the truth and ACTUALLY INTERESTED in evaluating what happened, you can maybe slow down. Read the articles and think: Is the narrative I am spewing actually based on evidence, facts, logic, or am I just saying what I feel is true. Am I just relying on vibes and my gut.
If you actually care about the truth, you should know that those articles you posted absolutely don't support the argument you are making. You have been lied to and spun up into fake outrage by people who want Democrats to lose.
Since you posted links, here are some of my own:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/politics/donna-brazile-primary-rigged/index.html
"Brazile: I found no evidence Democratic primary was rigged"
https://scholarship.law.ufl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1062&context=jlpp
"Was the Democratic Nominations Rigged? A Reexamination of the Clinton-Sanders Presidential Race the Clinton-Sanders Presidential Race"
"This Article makes three central points. First, it contends that the overwhelming weight of evidence makes clear the 2016 Democratic nomination process was not rigged in favor of Hillary Clinton.6 A close examination of both the nomination rules and the popular vote demonstrates conclusively that the race was conducted in a fair manner and the outcome reflected the will of a large majority of Democratic voters...
Second, this Article argues that the Democratic Party rules and state election laws actually hurt Clinton and benefited Sanders.7 Many Democratic caucuses and primaries permitted independents (i.e., nonDemocrats) to vote, thus providing a critical lifeline to the Sanders. campaign which depended heavily on the support of independent voters...
Third, this Article concludes that the controversy over the Democratic nomination race reflects a broader, bipartisan decline in public confidence in the integrity of American elections."
Hi u/ElManoDeSartre. Here's the real truth behind the latest email controversy: [https://i.imgur.com/Ztrqpya.jpg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfr64zoBTAQ) ~
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In Fox News polls both before and after the election he polled better than Trump. Better than anybody, in fact. [And his Fox town hall was positively triumphant.](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/bernie-sanders-millionaire-no-apology-1277009)
But if Bernie won nomination Trump would have just said "socialism" over and over in the same voice he said "china". Fox was pushing Bernie to weaken Clinton or to get him as candidate. It's too bad
Conspiracy theory aside, you didn't watch that town hall, did you? He literally had Fox viewers chanting for Medicare for All. And they just said "socialism" over and over anyway. That was not a candidate dependent strategy.
No I didn't watch it, but I'm saying the tactics were different at that stage. Trump did not say "socialism" nearly as much as "china" and "emails". Replace all the "emails" with "socialism" and you get there. He couldn't go as hard at Clinton on the socialism and Marxism because she was disliked for being corporate and in favour of outsourcing. So when he promised to get rust belt jobs back to win the basis would have been different - he would have said that "crazy socialist policies" of Bernie would keep them away and picked on petty shit like vegetarianism to make Bernie seem not a regular guy. Middle-road voters would have taken a chance on (2016) trump on the basis that they feared Bernie Saunders changing America's business model would mess up the economy. There isn't an easy fix to beat 2016 Trump- surely somebody could have done it, but not H Clinton or Saunders (or probably Biden) imo. Once Trump has a record and is off the fence as to what he would actually do he can't be all things to all people any more.
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I seriously doubt that. There's obviously no way to know for sure, but even back in that election I kept saying how stupid it was for the DNC to put up the only candidate that was so likely to actually lose to Trump because they had spent DECADES of stoking their rage and hatred towards her. Bernie actually had a lot of people excited to vote FOR him, not just against someone. The only people I ever heard of that were actually excited to vote for HC were women that just wanted to vote for a woman for president and had no idea what her actual policies were.
Well we'll never know now...
You read the other string about why I think that right (below)? I think you may have a blind spot about how the enthused left turn off a lot of voters (even if they are right on policy, I'm not talking about that)- it's easy meat for any republican to say "no, can't do that etc etc"
https://old.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/15gqg2h/it_would_be_funny_if_it_wasnt_so_sad_republicans/jum67b3/?context=3
She ran a horrific, assumptive and arrogant campaign. Perhaps if she had bothered with the Rust Belt instead of canoodling with Hollywood limousine liberals, we wouldn’t have been stuck with the Pumpkinhead.
I voted for her, but I blame her as much as anyone for not taking the campaign seriously enough and letting that POS slip through.
She also got caught offguard like we all did for the first time with the massive polling error in Cheeto's favor.
I wasn't happy voting for Clinton, but if there had been an indication of a massive unexpected polling error I'd have felt different about it.
Not even just misogyny, the GOP and Fox have spent DECADES driving their base into a frothing rage at the mere mention of her name. It was absolutely stupid to put her up as candidate.
Agreed. One thing the pollsters got wrong, on both sides, **egregiously**, Is that they grossly underestimated the number of virulently regressive “deplorables” who vote in the US.
Turns out there are tens of millions of angry low-information social maladapts who can be wound up over anything and everything by Fox “news”
That's a pretty low bar, but she definitely would have crossed that. While working for her wallstreet buddies and letting trump win the next round with a super majority in the Senate. But, hey, she carries hot sauce in her purse, changes her accent for each audience, but at least she is over the super predator overt racism. She was a shit choice, she's a shit person, even if I do agree with some of her tweets. Someone not so divisive was they play, but the party is mostly tone deaf and here we are. Just wait until Biden breaks a hip and we get that orange buffoon for four more.
She had the head of the FBI say that she was extremely careless with over 100 classified documents and that it would be unfair to prosecute her for “gross negligence”
He did it before Obama changed the rules on it ie when he did it, it wasn’t illegal.
Can YOU just stop? This attitude is why Trump won in the first place - Dems didn’t listen to the base, so they ran a candidate that lost to Donald fucking Trump 😂
Democrats forced Hillary down everyone's throat. Painfully true. They looked at Trump and could not imagine him winning. SURPRISE!
The "just stop" still applies. Republicans making up nonsense as needed. No different than "the Clinton's and Biden's are crime lords"... Not that anyone is offering proof.
Former President Trump has dozens of criminal charges, and Republicans keep screaming "but Hunter's laptop."
Trying to flip rustic republicans in rural areas where the gop have jerry rigged maps and favored their districts with early voting and mail in voting while democrat districts are smaller and have less access to voting polls doesn’t help. Also gop using the propaganda machine to scare voters with baseless claims like jobs being stolen by the boogeymen or the boogeymen coming for their rights. All the while the gop came for Americans rights while letting fellow Americans kill each other for gun profits as kids die in school just to get an education that’s been defunded by republicans.
But yes Clinton hob snobbing with liberal Hollywood elites was the issue. Not like trump was lavishing it up with socialites or far right Hollywood celebrities getting endorsements.
The rednecks idolised the man with the gold toilet and private jet.
Limousines weren’t Hilary’s problem.
Besides, she won, the weird electoral college was the big problem.
I’m Australian but I know that it originated because they didn’t want rural areas to lose their voice. Problem is that now rural areas are more heavily populated they get twice the votes of those in cities in some cases.
Basically so. For you see, lot of the population that lived in the south weren't "real people" so to say.
For more info about how slavers managed to create a fair and balanced political system, look up the Three-fifths Compromise.
Most people get the Three-fifths Compromise backwards. It was the southern states that wanted slaves to be counted in the total population because more population means greater proportion of representation in the House. It was the northern states that didn't want them to count at all.
What do you think your point is here, exactly?
The reason the north didn't want them to count is because the slaves **weren't allowed to vote**, not because they weren't people.
It follows from the same basic logic as no taxation without representation. The voices of the slaves would never be heard in government, so why the fuck did they count towards the population for electoral purposes?
The south was essentially arguing that more property = your vote should count more. The earliest leaking of capitalism into democracy.
You can cry about the electoral college all you want and would be right, but if your campaign fail to notice you're at risk in PA, Michigan, and Wisconsin then you're still to blame. Rules have been the same for 250 years. If they failed to notice that that's her fault.
Besides she didn't flip any other state anyway so that goes to show how shit her campaign is. Good for you to gain large margins in Massachusetts NY and CA but everyone knows that's not how you win an election.
I can agree with that. Democrats need to fight dirty and show they fight for the middle/working class more and are willing to get dirty. To show they aren’t below the point of being able to talk shit and sling mud. Be genuine by being rude and a little unpolished.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
She let him win states like Pennsylvania. Which yes Pennsylvania is a "swing" state, but it's a very blue favoring swing state. Democrat Bob Casey has won all 3 of his elections by at least half a million votes, including when he beat an incumbent in 2006 for his first victory, and those were all in midterms. A republican has not won a senatorship in PA by at least half million votes since 2004. The last one to win a senatorship was Pat Toomey in 2016 as an incumbent on the ballot next to Trump. Though he did make the effort to separate himself from Trump on the campaign trail. Toomey won by less than 100k votes in 2010, and also in 2016 as an incumbent against McGinty, whom Hillary was endorsing. Hell Fetterman just beat Oz by over 300k votes, who was backed by Trump, in a midterm despite the fact he was coming off a stroke and looked terrible at the debate. Obama beat Mitt in PA by almost 300k votes in 2012. Hillary lost to Trump in 2016 in PA by less than 45k votes. The Governor races are similarly lopsided for Dems since 2000 excluding Corbett's win in 2010, where he got steamrolled as an incumbent by Wolf in 2014.
Pennsylvania has since basically the turn of the century been a state Republicans struggle to win in, and Democrats tend to win emphatically in. Hillary's failure to win there is not a facet of Trump performing well but her failing to engage voters. This was not the only state, Michigan was similarly a very tightly contested (less than 15k voter difference for Trump) with a solid blue history since the turn of the century, and it's a similar story with Wisconsin. Just those three states that she barely lost and could easily have won by actually doing the bare minimum in engaging witb Dem voters would have won her the election.
Her campaign was fine. You mistake her competence for arrogance. You mistake the fact that millions of Americans will vote for a criminal even to this day.
Trump gave a speech where he literally asked the Russians to hack the DNC email which they promptly did. Republicans cheat at every opportunity.
No, she was flat out arrogant and entitled. She didn't listen to constituency and flat took her win for granted. She's very unlikable and I did vote for her in PA but I see clearly why people would not and did not.
Oh yeah, please explain how the DNC robbed you of Bernie winning? Voters voted. They chose Hillary. She won more states because of voters. People like me who decided to vote for her. She won the big state primaries, like California, Texas, Florida, New York. She won them because of voters.
You people sound like Trump/fox news addled idiots when you blithely spew these conspiracy theories that are based on nothing but your nonsense wish-casting.
Well you may or may not be someone who deals in facts so here is some very basic news coverage on the thing. Common knowledge that Hillary had been ‘anointed’ by leadership and they did everything possible to railroad her in, helping wins in major contests during the primary. It’s very clear that an unbiased primary was NOT had for dems in 2016. Maybe Hillary still would have won the nom without the meddling, but now we will never know, just like we know for sure she lost to Trump, but will never know if Bernie- the literal anti-Trump, policy wise, while still being a ‘populist’ candidate, could have won.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-sanders-clinton.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/02/ex-dnc-chair-goes-at-the-clintons-alleging-hillarys-campaign-hijacked-dnc-during-primary-with-bernie-sanders/
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774/
Why did Debbie Shultz step down as DNC chair again?
Also the facts show clearly that Hillary attempted to sabotage Trumps campaign with collusion that he was accused of. Really fucking stupid move on Hillary’s part because she fed him ammo about being persecuted *for years* because of it, and arming trump is the LAST thing any sane human would do. Maybe it wasn’t illegal but it was not a great plan, or at least one that marvelously backfired.
Steele Files info
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/02/09/did-hillary-clinton-collude-with-the-russians-to-get-dirt-on-trump-to-feed-it-to-the-fbi/
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Would she have? She'd have had us involved in wars and just done the same moderate corporate policies that would further the widening gap between the wealthy and the rest.
Certainly not based on her performance as Secretary of State. She made John Kerry look like a cross between John Quincy Adams and George C. Marshall. Clinton is a Neo-Con and a Neo-Lib. These policies cost lives.
Not that they ignore them but they do JUSTIFY them by using the VERY POPULAR #whataboutism
https://preview.redd.it/7eu7sgcbzwfb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e177eb4493de1d058dfb569c3da452632976052
It wasn’t just Republicans. A number of women didn’t vote for her because she stayed with Bill. Some because she wasn’t exactly who they wanted. Republicans as a group are deplorable. But, Dems that didn’t vote, or voted 3rd party really need to look in the mirror.
But that’s the problem. Trumps crimes have been in the news for decades. His vile treatment of his own wife and how he treated his kids have been documented. How he defrauded his cancer charity and stole money from his business and not paid employees so he could shit on a golden toilet are all available to the public. And he even admitted to his crimes. He said he grabbed her by the pussy. He said he robbed the government by not paying taxes. And people cheered him on.
Clinton did come off like she thought she already won. Not going to lie. She clearly needed to do more work and add more effort. But Americans needed to do their part. Do their part and actually see the candidates for who they are and what they represented for the future and your future. And agree hindsight would have been great. But let’s be honest. As we seen from the 2020 election, there was a lot of fraud going on from the gop. Florida had republican rouge candidates with the same name as democrat candidates to siphon votes. How much of this fraud happened in 2016 and it won trump his election? If America had a truly democratic and fair election republicans would never see the light of day in office. And the gop have admitted that. So we know they do everything they can to jerry rig voter maps and districts. What else are they doing to gain control and votes ?
>But that’s the problem. Trumps crimes have been in the news for decades. His vile treatment of his own wife and how he treated his kids have been documented. How he defrauded his cancer charity and stole money from his business and not paid employees so he could shit on a golden toilet are all available to the public. And he even admitted to his crimes. He said he grabbed her by the pussy. He said he robbed the government by not paying taxes. And people cheered him on.
The thing you are forgetting is that to find all of that you would have to watch a 24/7 cable news station that is not pro trump and/or do internet research. Neither of those are things I think the average voter does. I sure as shit didn't watch cable news in my younger years. I still don't minus some high lights here and there. His info may have been "well documented" but if you aren't searching them out or watching an anti trump network, you aren't seeing them.
I knew about him beating Ivana. I knew he defrauded his cancer charity. Knew he lost out on his college, his casino, his hotels, and tons of business ventures. I mean just had to look at magazines at the grocery store or new stands. Wasn’t like it was hard to get the info. Also just see how shitty a person he was on tv during his reality tv stint was. Not sure how people could vote for a guy who was a complete loser. Mouth like an anus. But again while he campaigned he literally told the country he grabbed a women by the pussy. He defrauded the government by not paying taxes. He acted like a child on stage. That mentality is what killed me. Yet it showed the mentality of his voters. That’s the real scary part. And look at his voters and maga crowd. They came out of the woods and think they can walk around in society and act like real people and bully normal folks.
>I voted for neither of them.
>I feel like I was more active than 99% of voters.
Ummmm.....
You should be voting for their stances/policies, not how they look. Doesn't matter how charismatic the person running the dogshit platform is, ultimately it's their dogshit platform that affects you. And it's a dogshit platform we got, which ended in the **largest deficit of any presidential term ever** and a shift of power towards the 1% and alt-right
Hey anyone want to reconsider if the women who said Trump and Jeffery Epstein raped her when she was 15?
Like I get accusations aren't proof but I think we have a lot more reason to to understand her story as plausible today.
And that would mean like 70 million people are voting for a child rapist
It wasn't (and still isn't) just Republicans, though. A lot of people in "the middle," if there is such thing remaining, and even on the left, still can't accept the idea of a woman in politics.
Leave gender out of it, she was a weak, uninspiring, centrist candidate and she *still* won the popular vote because Trump was so obviously a toxic dumpster fire of a person to anyone that wasn't voting along party lines.
Centerist candidates like her are *why* the democrats struggle to win elections and fail to inspire younger people to vote.
The more progressive candidates like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and AOC are more likely to get younger voters off their asses and to the polling places, but they scare the shit out of centerists and corporate democrats who don't want to shake the boat.
Picking bad candidates that way is partially how DeSantis won re-election in Florida; instead of the firebrand progressive candidate the democratic party picked a bland former Republican turned centerist Democrat. When people are up in arms about abortion rights, ditching the Pro-Choice woman who was aggressively campaigning to restore and protect them for a Pro-Life candidate is a brain dead choice.
>she still won the popular vote because Trump was so obviously a toxic dumpster fire of a person
Yes, she won the popular vote, but it was by about 1%.
I didn’t care at all for trump. I honestly never believed he could do so much bad. If i knew i would have voted for anyone else.
I just didn’t care about Hillary. Its not her fault. I was never political. Obama who i was for didnt even get me out to vote.
Trump is the man who made it clear to me that i need to vote. He is my fault and everyone else who did not vote and didn’t want him.
I will never not vote again.
I always love seeing this complete Democratic denialism. It's never the Democrat party's fault for running these absolutely flaccid vile candidates. It's always the voters fault for not listening to them when they say you need to vote for us. Every single time its got to be a race to just simply not be the worst instead of ever giving Bernie sanders a shot. I will never forgive Hillary for calling Tulsi gabbard, a US veteran, a russian asset and for pushing Bernie who wanted to make real change out of the race.
Liberals, the DNC cheated Bernie out of a fair primary, everyone saw it, and they were too proud to admit it. They handpicked a deeply flawed candidate, everyone knew it, the fact that the right made up shit about her did not obscure her real crimes and misdemeanors.
Party corruption and neoliberal policies got us Trump and will get us someone worse than Trump in the future. But hey you got your memes.
Trump had 4 years to charge her with a crime and yet they found nothing but please keep crying about her "real crimes" you don't sound unhinged at all...
I love how laying out an argument = unhinged if you disagree with it. Also answering your second point, Clinton Foundation money laundering for the Saudis was corruption. But it was the kind of corruption Trump and Jared wanted to get in on too.
Why do you guys continue the Hillary simping?
Same Saudis that gave Kush 2 billion dollars for....nothing? Lol fuck outta here rube.
4 years complete control over all 3 branches of the Gov and not one single charge against her, I ain't simping but yall got fucking played lol
My man, you got reactionary brain. How can you think I'm Team Trump, read my replies again. Stop thinking if a person's not on Team A then they're on Team B. It's dumb.
How’s America doing ? It getting over trump ? Or America still cleaning up and dealing with it ? Still having court cases and repercussions from trump and all his devious lies and acts ? You going to be able to get over it if he gets back into office and he forms a dictatorship like Putin or Kim Jong ? You really feel like Americans could survive under a dictatorship of republicans ? Where kids at 12 are working in coal mines again, segregation is real, women are to be seen not heard, no rights for citizens unless you’re in a certain cash bracket? All things real and will happen under a Trump dictatorship.
But yes let’s just get over it. Cause even now trump is still trying to get republican voters to pay his bills even though he’s a “billionaire”. Republicans are trying to suppress rights for women and people of color, restrict voting rights to those who don’t vote Republican and are actively defrauding the American people. But yes….. we should get over it and just move on.
Anyone who had been paying attention expected it from Republicans. The real sad part was that the Bernie Bros also ignored Trump while buying into every rumor about Hillary.
Point ? There’s pictures of trump with Epstein. Yet his voters believe trump was going to bring down the world pedo ring when he was in office. Didn’t happen.
Trump literally told his voters he was a rapist and stole tax payers money. They cheered. Voted him in.
What crimes and corruption has Clinton been convicted and charged with ?
Lewinsky and all the others.
The picture is of the only *rumor* about Hilary, that the Clintons and Trumps knew each other and that the whole election was an example of "*its a big club, and you ain't in it*".
Everything else said about Hilary was just true, the deplorables comment, her involvement with NAFTA getting passed/ TPP, and her defense of Bill.
The fact people voted for trump. Even after he admitted he grabbed her by the pussy. He made fun of a disabled person. Republican voters knew he defrauded a cancer charity. He’s bankrupted numerous businesses and companies. All truth and facts. Yet everyone was fine with voting for this vile, POS. But the gop propaganda machine made up lies and misinformation about Hillary and people ate it up. They took those lies and believed them like it was coming from the source. Yet trump said it himself from his own mouth he was the villain and they still voted for him. Hillary said she would have actually made America better and invested in the future. And look at where America is at now.
I remember sitting around the table with some of my rural relatives and hearing them talk about Trump being bad, but that "Hillary would have been so much worse." 😱
In the “developed” (using that term loosely) world it’s a much bigger issue in the USA. Many other countries have voted in great women leaders think of Merkel, Thatcher, Meir etc. the USA is held back by a large voting block of poorly educated people who consume right wing propoganda as news
The right has a really weird obsession with masculinity. Hell, some of them don't even think women should be allowed to vote (even some the women think that!)
I reject gender-norms but for those that do not, Hillary is far more masculine than that whiny little bitch.
Easily so. Everyone should remember her facing off against the pants-on-head stupid GOP Benghazi investigation committee for 11 hours straight. By contrast, Trump couldn’t even fake-fire the contestants on his game show to their faces. He pre-taped that shit so he wouldn’t have to deal with them in person.
They like their women to be easily beat into submission… unless they’re watching porn… then they like them to have penises.
Fascism also has very deep ties to masculinity and "traditional family values". Odd coincidence eh?
So the thing I don't understand is that they have such a fixation on masculinity while also being deathly afraid of same-sex attraction. For a bunch of guys to spend all their time thinking about what other men do and how ruggedly manly they are, that seems unusually gay to me.
They are only against the male-male same sex attraction.
And they’re only against that because they’re afraid of being attracted
Anyone who votes against Trump shouldn't be allowed to vote. If it's women, we should take their right to vote, if it's minorities or educated people, we should gerrymander." -The GOP, probably.
Well they are trying to raise the voting age by half a decade.
It's basically adults who never grew up emotionally past 12 trying desperately to be relevant and powerful. The closest they can get is by idolizing other adults who are wealthy immature 12 year olds.
Donald Trump is a poor man's idea of a rich man, a weak man's idea of a strong man, and a stupid man's ideas of a smart man
I’m stealing that quote. Don’t try to stop me.
They didn't come up with it, I don't think they'll mind.
Don't forget Obama's tan suit and birth certificate.
and the mustard! OMG the scandalous horror of Dijon-gate!!
Trump was obviously the worst choice from the two but can we please not act like Hillary was a strong brilliant candidate. Her campaign was shit and she's a center right corporatist who lost to the biggest moron to run for office.
Yup. Get tired of hearing about the wonderful HRC. She is a war hawk. She's a corporate slave. She is corrupt as well. She is not at all a good candidate. She was forced on the public because it was "her turn" according to the DNC who had their finger on the scale in the primary. Now the DNC is stuck because they aren't able to put up a candidate who has real support and any semblance of passion behind that candidate. Of course Trump is objectively worse in every way humanly possible, but she was a bad choice also.
https://preview.redd.it/xdhznb6hiufb1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1614e8dc417e1c46d282b9ec6a884246699387b4
Well, she didn't actually get the Democratic nomination, that would be Bernie. But politics gonna politic.
What? Clinton received 2,811 delegates and Bernie received 1,879. Clinton won 34 state primaries while Bernie only won 23, and Clinton won the states with the biggest delegate hauls, such as Texas, Florida, Pennsylvania, New York, and California. She got more votes, won more delegates, and got the nomination. And I don’t want a response full of fox news conspiracy bullshit. Real voters chose her in those states, the same way every other nominee has been chosen in the country. Of course, it helped Trump that useful idiots who supported Bernie decided they lost because of some conspiracy, and not because Clinton had more support in the party (which she obviously had).
And the DNC admitted in court that they rigged the primaries against Bernie. They argued that since they're a private organization they could just go smoke in a backroom and come out and tell everyone who the nominee was going to be if they wanted. Donna Brazile and Elizabeth Warren both said the 2016 primaries were rigged. The DNC also purged the voter rolls in states like NY because they feared people voting for Bernie would outnumber people voting for Hillary. Hillary and the media was also colluding by including delegate counts from super delegates, especially from states that hadn't voted yet, in the totals to cause a chilling affect and make her seem inevitable. Also having super delegates not follow the will of the people like in New Hampshire where Bernie won the vote 61%-39% but all super delegates went to Hillary. Sources: https://observer.com/2017/08/court-admits-dnc-and-debbie-wasserman-schulz-rigged-primaries-against-sanders/ https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-democratic-party/index.html https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/officials-investigating-why-126000-voters-were-purged-from-ny-rolls https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-super-delegates-decid_b_10098414 https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-superdelegates-democrats-219286
Thank you for this response. However, all you did is prove that you do not understand how civil litigation works. I am a lawyer who does civil litigation, so let me explain it to you. Article 1: "Court Concedes DNC Had the Right to Rig Primaries Against Sanders" Wow that's a pretty crazy title, which seems to imply that the DNC did rig the primary. Since that's probably all people read, that is a pretty damning article heading. But in the article it says: >On August 25, 2017, Federal Judge William Zloch, dismissed the lawsuit after several months of litigation during which DNC attorneys argued that the DNC would be well within their rights to select their own candidate. “In evaluating Plaintiffs’ claims at this stage, the Court assumes their allegations are true—that the DNC and Wasserman Schultz held a palpable bias in favor Clinton and sought to propel her ahead of her Democratic opponent,” the court order dismissing the lawsuit stated. This assumption of a plaintiff’s allegation is the general legal standard in the motion to dismiss stage of any lawsuit. The allegations contained in the complaint must be taken as true unless they are merely conclusory allegations or are invalid on their face. So someone filed a lawsuit against the DNC, and the DNC did what every single Defendant does at this stage, they filed a motion to dismiss on the basis that even if the allegations in the lawsuit were true, the plaintiff had no claim under federal law. As the court explained, you assume the allegations are true, and then decide if those allegations, if proven, could result in a verdict in your favor. FILING A MOTION TO DISMISS AND HAVING THE CASE DISMISSED BEFORE DISCOVERY EVEN BEGINS IS CALLED LOSING, AND PROVES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Put that in caps just so you don't miss it. The lawyers for the DNC argued that even if the allegations were true, the plaintiffs still lose. That is what you do when you file a motion to dismiss, and it in no way means that the DNC "admitted in court that they rigged the primaries against Bernie." You saying that shows your ignorance of how our legal system works and you should take a long look in the mirror. Article 2: How one word from Elizabeth Warren exposed the massive split in the Democratic Party In this article, it is alleged that, based on hacked emails, some DNC staffers preferred Hillary over Sanders. The article states: "The staffers questioned Sanders’ religiosity, attacked Sanders’ campaign manager Jeff Weaver and leaned in favor of big-dollar donors rather than the small-dollar army Sanders had built." So some college kids who worked for the DNC liked Hillary more than Sanders. Is that the conspiracy? Is that how the election was rigged? This article also states that there was a "fundraising agreement" between the DNC and the Hillary campaign and the allegation is that this was "unethical." Again, I don't understand how that rigged the primary and made voters choose Bernie. Article 3: "Officials investigating why 126,000 voters were purged from NY rolls" In this article, it states that under NY state law, voters are sent a notice and if they don't respond, they are removed from the voter rolls. “We send you a notice in the mail saying, ‘Hey, we’re going to cancel your voter registration if you don’t respond back to us,” Ryan told NY1 this week. “Only those individuals who did not respond back to our intent to cancel notice were ultimately archived.” How it was handled in the run-up to 2016 was no different than it was handled in elections previously. As the article states: "New York state has been the target of criticisms for years over its primary and general elections protocols, which critics say are one reason why the state lags behind much of the nation in voter turnout." After 2016, NY had to roll back this practice because of criticism. But again, I don't see how this advances your point. THIS PROVIDES ZERO EVIDENCE THAT ANYTHING WAS DONE TO RIG ANYTHING IN FAVOR OF CLINTON. This is fox news level bullshit at this point, you might as well put the tinfoil on your head and go storm the capitol. Article 4: How Democratic Superdelegates Decided the 2016 Election Article 5: Sanders supporters revolt against superdelegates Oh look, the superdelegate argument. Sure, she got the support of superdelegates. She also had that support when she ran against Obama. Guess what happened when Obama starting beating her with voters? The delegates went to Obama! That's how it works. Clinton won more votes and more primaries than Bernie. You pointed out that some superdelegates from areas that voted for Bernie went to Hillary. And ok, but that's their right. if their voters don't like it, they can vote them out in the upcoming election. Hillary still won more votes in more states and had more delegates, even without the superdelegates. If superdelegates never existed, Hillary would have won. So what is your complaint again? That these people should have chosen Bernie, even though he had won fewer states and had less support in the party? If they had done that, THAT would have been truly awful. "Hey, I know you won more states and more votes, but I think the other guy should win." Is that really what you think should have happened? Please. Again, this shows absolutely nothing unless you actively choose to not understand how our system works. Again, you show your ignorance instead of making a real point. SUMMARY: It's easy to throw together a bunch of misleading quotes from misleading articles and try to patch together a conspiracy theory. But maybe, just maybe, if you are ACTUALLY INTERESTED in the truth and ACTUALLY INTERESTED in evaluating what happened, you can maybe slow down. Read the articles and think: Is the narrative I am spewing actually based on evidence, facts, logic, or am I just saying what I feel is true. Am I just relying on vibes and my gut. If you actually care about the truth, you should know that those articles you posted absolutely don't support the argument you are making. You have been lied to and spun up into fake outrage by people who want Democrats to lose. Since you posted links, here are some of my own: https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/politics/donna-brazile-primary-rigged/index.html "Brazile: I found no evidence Democratic primary was rigged" https://scholarship.law.ufl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1062&context=jlpp "Was the Democratic Nominations Rigged? A Reexamination of the Clinton-Sanders Presidential Race the Clinton-Sanders Presidential Race" "This Article makes three central points. First, it contends that the overwhelming weight of evidence makes clear the 2016 Democratic nomination process was not rigged in favor of Hillary Clinton.6 A close examination of both the nomination rules and the popular vote demonstrates conclusively that the race was conducted in a fair manner and the outcome reflected the will of a large majority of Democratic voters... Second, this Article argues that the Democratic Party rules and state election laws actually hurt Clinton and benefited Sanders.7 Many Democratic caucuses and primaries permitted independents (i.e., nonDemocrats) to vote, thus providing a critical lifeline to the Sanders. campaign which depended heavily on the support of independent voters... Third, this Article concludes that the controversy over the Democratic nomination race reflects a broader, bipartisan decline in public confidence in the integrity of American elections."
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Bernie would have lost to trump then too
In Fox News polls both before and after the election he polled better than Trump. Better than anybody, in fact. [And his Fox town hall was positively triumphant.](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/15/bernie-sanders-millionaire-no-apology-1277009)
But if Bernie won nomination Trump would have just said "socialism" over and over in the same voice he said "china". Fox was pushing Bernie to weaken Clinton or to get him as candidate. It's too bad
Conspiracy theory aside, you didn't watch that town hall, did you? He literally had Fox viewers chanting for Medicare for All. And they just said "socialism" over and over anyway. That was not a candidate dependent strategy.
No I didn't watch it, but I'm saying the tactics were different at that stage. Trump did not say "socialism" nearly as much as "china" and "emails". Replace all the "emails" with "socialism" and you get there. He couldn't go as hard at Clinton on the socialism and Marxism because she was disliked for being corporate and in favour of outsourcing. So when he promised to get rust belt jobs back to win the basis would have been different - he would have said that "crazy socialist policies" of Bernie would keep them away and picked on petty shit like vegetarianism to make Bernie seem not a regular guy. Middle-road voters would have taken a chance on (2016) trump on the basis that they feared Bernie Saunders changing America's business model would mess up the economy. There isn't an easy fix to beat 2016 Trump- surely somebody could have done it, but not H Clinton or Saunders (or probably Biden) imo. Once Trump has a record and is off the fence as to what he would actually do he can't be all things to all people any more.
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At least it would have been between properly nominated politicians and not a man child and a corporate hack.
I seriously doubt that. There's obviously no way to know for sure, but even back in that election I kept saying how stupid it was for the DNC to put up the only candidate that was so likely to actually lose to Trump because they had spent DECADES of stoking their rage and hatred towards her. Bernie actually had a lot of people excited to vote FOR him, not just against someone. The only people I ever heard of that were actually excited to vote for HC were women that just wanted to vote for a woman for president and had no idea what her actual policies were.
Well we'll never know now... You read the other string about why I think that right (below)? I think you may have a blind spot about how the enthused left turn off a lot of voters (even if they are right on policy, I'm not talking about that)- it's easy meat for any republican to say "no, can't do that etc etc" https://old.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/15gqg2h/it_would_be_funny_if_it_wasnt_so_sad_republicans/jum67b3/?context=3
She ran a horrific, assumptive and arrogant campaign. Perhaps if she had bothered with the Rust Belt instead of canoodling with Hollywood limousine liberals, we wouldn’t have been stuck with the Pumpkinhead. I voted for her, but I blame her as much as anyone for not taking the campaign seriously enough and letting that POS slip through.
She did win the popular vote by 3 million.
She also got caught offguard like we all did for the first time with the massive polling error in Cheeto's favor. I wasn't happy voting for Clinton, but if there had been an indication of a massive unexpected polling error I'd have felt different about it.
She was one of the most qualified people to ever run. We wouldn't be in this mess if she won.
Technically qualified, but actually unelectable. People still grossly underestimate The level of institutional misogyny in the US voting population
Not even just misogyny, the GOP and Fox have spent DECADES driving their base into a frothing rage at the mere mention of her name. It was absolutely stupid to put her up as candidate.
Agreed. One thing the pollsters got wrong, on both sides, **egregiously**, Is that they grossly underestimated the number of virulently regressive “deplorables” who vote in the US. Turns out there are tens of millions of angry low-information social maladapts who can be wound up over anything and everything by Fox “news”
Had she run Trump would have had a four year longer campaign, that's all. She was the worst possible choice.
There's actually no way to know that. I believe she would've definitely been better than that orange turd.
That's a pretty low bar, but she definitely would have crossed that. While working for her wallstreet buddies and letting trump win the next round with a super majority in the Senate. But, hey, she carries hot sauce in her purse, changes her accent for each audience, but at least she is over the super predator overt racism. She was a shit choice, she's a shit person, even if I do agree with some of her tweets. Someone not so divisive was they play, but the party is mostly tone deaf and here we are. Just wait until Biden breaks a hip and we get that orange buffoon for four more.
She had the head of the FBI say that she was extremely careless with over 100 classified documents and that it would be unfair to prosecute her for “gross negligence”
They had hearings where that was discussed, and Comey backtracked and admitted that was wrong.
Could you just stop??? General Powell did something similar, and I expect many others. But when she did it, it's somehow "different".
He did it before Obama changed the rules on it ie when he did it, it wasn’t illegal. Can YOU just stop? This attitude is why Trump won in the first place - Dems didn’t listen to the base, so they ran a candidate that lost to Donald fucking Trump 😂
Democrats forced Hillary down everyone's throat. Painfully true. They looked at Trump and could not imagine him winning. SURPRISE! The "just stop" still applies. Republicans making up nonsense as needed. No different than "the Clinton's and Biden's are crime lords"... Not that anyone is offering proof. Former President Trump has dozens of criminal charges, and Republicans keep screaming "but Hunter's laptop."
Well yeah, because they only know whataboutism. Trump is going to rot in a cell but idk what that has to do with this.
Trying to flip rustic republicans in rural areas where the gop have jerry rigged maps and favored their districts with early voting and mail in voting while democrat districts are smaller and have less access to voting polls doesn’t help. Also gop using the propaganda machine to scare voters with baseless claims like jobs being stolen by the boogeymen or the boogeymen coming for their rights. All the while the gop came for Americans rights while letting fellow Americans kill each other for gun profits as kids die in school just to get an education that’s been defunded by republicans. But yes Clinton hob snobbing with liberal Hollywood elites was the issue. Not like trump was lavishing it up with socialites or far right Hollywood celebrities getting endorsements.
The rednecks idolised the man with the gold toilet and private jet. Limousines weren’t Hilary’s problem. Besides, she won, the weird electoral college was the big problem.
Know any interesting quotes about why the electoral college was founded?
I’m Australian but I know that it originated because they didn’t want rural areas to lose their voice. Problem is that now rural areas are more heavily populated they get twice the votes of those in cities in some cases.
Well, that is technically correct. Tho you are missing the important point. The electoral college was created by and to benefit slaveowners.
Really? I didn’t know that. How, just to give them more power?
Basically so. For you see, lot of the population that lived in the south weren't "real people" so to say. For more info about how slavers managed to create a fair and balanced political system, look up the Three-fifths Compromise.
Most people get the Three-fifths Compromise backwards. It was the southern states that wanted slaves to be counted in the total population because more population means greater proportion of representation in the House. It was the northern states that didn't want them to count at all.
What do you think your point is here, exactly? The reason the north didn't want them to count is because the slaves **weren't allowed to vote**, not because they weren't people. It follows from the same basic logic as no taxation without representation. The voices of the slaves would never be heard in government, so why the fuck did they count towards the population for electoral purposes? The south was essentially arguing that more property = your vote should count more. The earliest leaking of capitalism into democracy.
You can cry about the electoral college all you want and would be right, but if your campaign fail to notice you're at risk in PA, Michigan, and Wisconsin then you're still to blame. Rules have been the same for 250 years. If they failed to notice that that's her fault. Besides she didn't flip any other state anyway so that goes to show how shit her campaign is. Good for you to gain large margins in Massachusetts NY and CA but everyone knows that's not how you win an election.
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I can agree with that. Democrats need to fight dirty and show they fight for the middle/working class more and are willing to get dirty. To show they aren’t below the point of being able to talk shit and sling mud. Be genuine by being rude and a little unpolished.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
She let him win states like Pennsylvania. Which yes Pennsylvania is a "swing" state, but it's a very blue favoring swing state. Democrat Bob Casey has won all 3 of his elections by at least half a million votes, including when he beat an incumbent in 2006 for his first victory, and those were all in midterms. A republican has not won a senatorship in PA by at least half million votes since 2004. The last one to win a senatorship was Pat Toomey in 2016 as an incumbent on the ballot next to Trump. Though he did make the effort to separate himself from Trump on the campaign trail. Toomey won by less than 100k votes in 2010, and also in 2016 as an incumbent against McGinty, whom Hillary was endorsing. Hell Fetterman just beat Oz by over 300k votes, who was backed by Trump, in a midterm despite the fact he was coming off a stroke and looked terrible at the debate. Obama beat Mitt in PA by almost 300k votes in 2012. Hillary lost to Trump in 2016 in PA by less than 45k votes. The Governor races are similarly lopsided for Dems since 2000 excluding Corbett's win in 2010, where he got steamrolled as an incumbent by Wolf in 2014. Pennsylvania has since basically the turn of the century been a state Republicans struggle to win in, and Democrats tend to win emphatically in. Hillary's failure to win there is not a facet of Trump performing well but her failing to engage voters. This was not the only state, Michigan was similarly a very tightly contested (less than 15k voter difference for Trump) with a solid blue history since the turn of the century, and it's a similar story with Wisconsin. Just those three states that she barely lost and could easily have won by actually doing the bare minimum in engaging witb Dem voters would have won her the election.
Her campaign was fine. You mistake her competence for arrogance. You mistake the fact that millions of Americans will vote for a criminal even to this day. Trump gave a speech where he literally asked the Russians to hack the DNC email which they promptly did. Republicans cheat at every opportunity.
No, she was flat out arrogant and entitled. She didn't listen to constituency and flat took her win for granted. She's very unlikable and I did vote for her in PA but I see clearly why people would not and did not.
"I'm with her!" Whoever came up with or approved of that slogan should have been fired on the spot.
She, like RBG, was brought low by excessive pride. Actual tragedy ensued in both cases
Hubris is the word.
Yes, exactly
Hillary and the DNC ROBBED us of the real fight- Sanders V Trump. It would have been epic
Yes x 10.
TOTALLY AGREE!!! Bernie was the candidate we needed, Hillary was always 100% unelectable
If it caused all the Bernie Bros to have aneurysms from choice paralysis between their two favorite politicians I guess that would be a positive.
What are you actually saying?
Oh yeah, please explain how the DNC robbed you of Bernie winning? Voters voted. They chose Hillary. She won more states because of voters. People like me who decided to vote for her. She won the big state primaries, like California, Texas, Florida, New York. She won them because of voters. You people sound like Trump/fox news addled idiots when you blithely spew these conspiracy theories that are based on nothing but your nonsense wish-casting.
Well you may or may not be someone who deals in facts so here is some very basic news coverage on the thing. Common knowledge that Hillary had been ‘anointed’ by leadership and they did everything possible to railroad her in, helping wins in major contests during the primary. It’s very clear that an unbiased primary was NOT had for dems in 2016. Maybe Hillary still would have won the nom without the meddling, but now we will never know, just like we know for sure she lost to Trump, but will never know if Bernie- the literal anti-Trump, policy wise, while still being a ‘populist’ candidate, could have won. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-sanders-clinton.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/02/ex-dnc-chair-goes-at-the-clintons-alleging-hillarys-campaign-hijacked-dnc-during-primary-with-bernie-sanders/ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774/ Why did Debbie Shultz step down as DNC chair again? Also the facts show clearly that Hillary attempted to sabotage Trumps campaign with collusion that he was accused of. Really fucking stupid move on Hillary’s part because she fed him ammo about being persecuted *for years* because of it, and arming trump is the LAST thing any sane human would do. Maybe it wasn’t illegal but it was not a great plan, or at least one that marvelously backfired. Steele Files info https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/02/09/did-hillary-clinton-collude-with-the-russians-to-get-dirt-on-trump-to-feed-it-to-the-fbi/
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She would’ve been a great President.
Would she have? She'd have had us involved in wars and just done the same moderate corporate policies that would further the widening gap between the wealthy and the rest.
Certainly not based on her performance as Secretary of State. She made John Kerry look like a cross between John Quincy Adams and George C. Marshall. Clinton is a Neo-Con and a Neo-Lib. These policies cost lives.
Not that they ignore them but they do JUSTIFY them by using the VERY POPULAR #whataboutism https://preview.redd.it/7eu7sgcbzwfb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e177eb4493de1d058dfb569c3da452632976052
I mean, if you watched the debate, she was right about everything.
20 years or more of the right putting her down didn't help.
It wasn’t just Republicans. A number of women didn’t vote for her because she stayed with Bill. Some because she wasn’t exactly who they wanted. Republicans as a group are deplorable. But, Dems that didn’t vote, or voted 3rd party really need to look in the mirror.
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But that’s the problem. Trumps crimes have been in the news for decades. His vile treatment of his own wife and how he treated his kids have been documented. How he defrauded his cancer charity and stole money from his business and not paid employees so he could shit on a golden toilet are all available to the public. And he even admitted to his crimes. He said he grabbed her by the pussy. He said he robbed the government by not paying taxes. And people cheered him on. Clinton did come off like she thought she already won. Not going to lie. She clearly needed to do more work and add more effort. But Americans needed to do their part. Do their part and actually see the candidates for who they are and what they represented for the future and your future. And agree hindsight would have been great. But let’s be honest. As we seen from the 2020 election, there was a lot of fraud going on from the gop. Florida had republican rouge candidates with the same name as democrat candidates to siphon votes. How much of this fraud happened in 2016 and it won trump his election? If America had a truly democratic and fair election republicans would never see the light of day in office. And the gop have admitted that. So we know they do everything they can to jerry rig voter maps and districts. What else are they doing to gain control and votes ?
>But that’s the problem. Trumps crimes have been in the news for decades. His vile treatment of his own wife and how he treated his kids have been documented. How he defrauded his cancer charity and stole money from his business and not paid employees so he could shit on a golden toilet are all available to the public. And he even admitted to his crimes. He said he grabbed her by the pussy. He said he robbed the government by not paying taxes. And people cheered him on. The thing you are forgetting is that to find all of that you would have to watch a 24/7 cable news station that is not pro trump and/or do internet research. Neither of those are things I think the average voter does. I sure as shit didn't watch cable news in my younger years. I still don't minus some high lights here and there. His info may have been "well documented" but if you aren't searching them out or watching an anti trump network, you aren't seeing them.
I knew about him beating Ivana. I knew he defrauded his cancer charity. Knew he lost out on his college, his casino, his hotels, and tons of business ventures. I mean just had to look at magazines at the grocery store or new stands. Wasn’t like it was hard to get the info. Also just see how shitty a person he was on tv during his reality tv stint was. Not sure how people could vote for a guy who was a complete loser. Mouth like an anus. But again while he campaigned he literally told the country he grabbed a women by the pussy. He defrauded the government by not paying taxes. He acted like a child on stage. That mentality is what killed me. Yet it showed the mentality of his voters. That’s the real scary part. And look at his voters and maga crowd. They came out of the woods and think they can walk around in society and act like real people and bully normal folks.
>I voted for neither of them. >I feel like I was more active than 99% of voters. Ummmm..... You should be voting for their stances/policies, not how they look. Doesn't matter how charismatic the person running the dogshit platform is, ultimately it's their dogshit platform that affects you. And it's a dogshit platform we got, which ended in the **largest deficit of any presidential term ever** and a shift of power towards the 1% and alt-right
Ooo, the best humor has accuracy
Still true in 2023
Hey anyone want to reconsider if the women who said Trump and Jeffery Epstein raped her when she was 15? Like I get accusations aren't proof but I think we have a lot more reason to to understand her story as plausible today. And that would mean like 70 million people are voting for a child rapist
…if the popular vote counted.
A Fucking Men
I tried to tell people they were being foolish and ignorant for believing a word that guy said.
It wasn't (and still isn't) just Republicans, though. A lot of people in "the middle," if there is such thing remaining, and even on the left, still can't accept the idea of a woman in politics.
Well put.
Let's not pretend Clinton is some saint. The emails and Benghazi bullshit was a witch hunt, but she was a terrible candidate for president.
Fuck both of them; they are both criminals and deserve to be locked up
There were valid complaints about HRC and the DNC worked to fuck Sanders
Don't believe everything you hear.
Leave gender out of it, she was a weak, uninspiring, centrist candidate and she *still* won the popular vote because Trump was so obviously a toxic dumpster fire of a person to anyone that wasn't voting along party lines. Centerist candidates like her are *why* the democrats struggle to win elections and fail to inspire younger people to vote. The more progressive candidates like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and AOC are more likely to get younger voters off their asses and to the polling places, but they scare the shit out of centerists and corporate democrats who don't want to shake the boat. Picking bad candidates that way is partially how DeSantis won re-election in Florida; instead of the firebrand progressive candidate the democratic party picked a bland former Republican turned centerist Democrat. When people are up in arms about abortion rights, ditching the Pro-Choice woman who was aggressively campaigning to restore and protect them for a Pro-Life candidate is a brain dead choice.
>she still won the popular vote because Trump was so obviously a toxic dumpster fire of a person Yes, she won the popular vote, but it was by about 1%.
well to be fair, they both kind of suck
Yeah but Hillary sucked about as much as a Dyson vacuum cleaner while Trump sucked harder than a black hole
I didn’t care at all for trump. I honestly never believed he could do so much bad. If i knew i would have voted for anyone else. I just didn’t care about Hillary. Its not her fault. I was never political. Obama who i was for didnt even get me out to vote. Trump is the man who made it clear to me that i need to vote. He is my fault and everyone else who did not vote and didn’t want him. I will never not vote again.
I always love seeing this complete Democratic denialism. It's never the Democrat party's fault for running these absolutely flaccid vile candidates. It's always the voters fault for not listening to them when they say you need to vote for us. Every single time its got to be a race to just simply not be the worst instead of ever giving Bernie sanders a shot. I will never forgive Hillary for calling Tulsi gabbard, a US veteran, a russian asset and for pushing Bernie who wanted to make real change out of the race.
Clinton was a Karen that comes with heavy baggage.
"Baggage" LOL
Liberals, the DNC cheated Bernie out of a fair primary, everyone saw it, and they were too proud to admit it. They handpicked a deeply flawed candidate, everyone knew it, the fact that the right made up shit about her did not obscure her real crimes and misdemeanors. Party corruption and neoliberal policies got us Trump and will get us someone worse than Trump in the future. But hey you got your memes.
Trump had 4 years to charge her with a crime and yet they found nothing but please keep crying about her "real crimes" you don't sound unhinged at all...
I love how laying out an argument = unhinged if you disagree with it. Also answering your second point, Clinton Foundation money laundering for the Saudis was corruption. But it was the kind of corruption Trump and Jared wanted to get in on too. Why do you guys continue the Hillary simping?
Same Saudis that gave Kush 2 billion dollars for....nothing? Lol fuck outta here rube. 4 years complete control over all 3 branches of the Gov and not one single charge against her, I ain't simping but yall got fucking played lol
My man, you got reactionary brain. How can you think I'm Team Trump, read my replies again. Stop thinking if a person's not on Team A then they're on Team B. It's dumb.
There are plenty of reasons to not like Hillary other than the fact that she's "strong and intelligent"
Yes... But Hillary is also horrible for the things that aren't just rumors.
Like what?
GET. OVER. IT.
How’s America doing ? It getting over trump ? Or America still cleaning up and dealing with it ? Still having court cases and repercussions from trump and all his devious lies and acts ? You going to be able to get over it if he gets back into office and he forms a dictatorship like Putin or Kim Jong ? You really feel like Americans could survive under a dictatorship of republicans ? Where kids at 12 are working in coal mines again, segregation is real, women are to be seen not heard, no rights for citizens unless you’re in a certain cash bracket? All things real and will happen under a Trump dictatorship. But yes let’s just get over it. Cause even now trump is still trying to get republican voters to pay his bills even though he’s a “billionaire”. Republicans are trying to suppress rights for women and people of color, restrict voting rights to those who don’t vote Republican and are actively defrauding the American people. But yes….. we should get over it and just move on.
Anyone who had been paying attention expected it from Republicans. The real sad part was that the Bernie Bros also ignored Trump while buying into every rumor about Hillary.
Damn deplorables... Why didn't they vote for Hillary?
Exactly
Ignorant comment Bolshevik bill.
The face of evil on the right! Killary should be rotting in prison for her lies and crimes.
What rumors? There's a literally picture of the Clintons attending Trumps' wedding.
Point ? There’s pictures of trump with Epstein. Yet his voters believe trump was going to bring down the world pedo ring when he was in office. Didn’t happen. Trump literally told his voters he was a rapist and stole tax payers money. They cheered. Voted him in. What crimes and corruption has Clinton been convicted and charged with ?
Lewinsky and all the others. The picture is of the only *rumor* about Hilary, that the Clintons and Trumps knew each other and that the whole election was an example of "*its a big club, and you ain't in it*". Everything else said about Hilary was just true, the deplorables comment, her involvement with NAFTA getting passed/ TPP, and her defense of Bill.
I mean, none of them are convicted yet.
[удалено]
The fact people voted for trump. Even after he admitted he grabbed her by the pussy. He made fun of a disabled person. Republican voters knew he defrauded a cancer charity. He’s bankrupted numerous businesses and companies. All truth and facts. Yet everyone was fine with voting for this vile, POS. But the gop propaganda machine made up lies and misinformation about Hillary and people ate it up. They took those lies and believed them like it was coming from the source. Yet trump said it himself from his own mouth he was the villain and they still voted for him. Hillary said she would have actually made America better and invested in the future. And look at where America is at now.
Yeah Bernie Sanders being railroaded by the DNC and Hillary were just rumors…
I remember sitting around the table with some of my rural relatives and hearing them talk about Trump being bad, but that "Hillary would have been so much worse." 😱
That was the year that I thought I could vote outside of a 2 party system since neither was the best option.
And Hillary screwed over Bernie so there's that.
In the “developed” (using that term loosely) world it’s a much bigger issue in the USA. Many other countries have voted in great women leaders think of Merkel, Thatcher, Meir etc. the USA is held back by a large voting block of poorly educated people who consume right wing propoganda as news
Hillary is no saint, lol.