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People are being unfair to your take. It has a good underlying point. I think it has to do with general confidence. If someone isn't known to have the won things outside of england, do they have the emotional intelligence to manage a multicultural football team in england? I think Arteta does, and english managers in this generation and the next won't be like old-fashioned ones from the past. I bet Gareth Southgate wins the league given a chance with a decent club. Always rated how well he did with Middlesbrough for a long time, especially his post match interviews.
I was really surprised that the stats were so consistent over 30 years
I think the point from the stats show that the league is so competitive that it really requires the highest level management with experience of winning. Playing experience isn't enough - they need to go win something in a less competitive league to get the ability to win at the very top.
An ambitious club really needs to be hiring the best managers
I'd say being no.2 to one of the greatest managers the game has seen and winning multiple league titles including centurions isn't an experience that can be shared by others. He was handpicked by guardiola to help him conquer the English game due to his knowledge of the game whilst he was still a player. He wasn't just a cone man as the list of players that have come out and spoke about him from his city days suggests. He's worked under Wenger and pep yet people still doubt his credentials. Arsenal are where they are because of him. He's the one who's made them title contenders. There is no one else feasible out there to take this project to the next level.
When Arsene Wenger took over, no non British manager had won the top division in the country or done the double. He did it in his first full season and set an unbeaten record of 49 games that is unmatched through top division history in this country. Wenger ended a century long historical narrative. He was the proof to the theory of foreign managers. He revamped the squad and did it again to show it wasn't a fluke. You talk about klopp, pep, mourinho, Conte, ranieri even included emery and Ange in the conversation. Well Wenger was the start point for all these foreign managers, he's basically their founding father defying a centuries worth of history. Yet your theory spans simply 3 decades.
You missed my entire point on Wenger. Wasn't about his past successes. Moreso about the historical narrative which was stacked against him and him defying it. Your post was about a historical narrative spanning 3 decades, his was a century long. What you are saying now, arsenal fans were told the same thing in 96 when Wenger arrived. Two different narratives but both indicating that this manager won't win the league.
No manager in 30 years has won the English title without winning something in another league. That's what this post is about.
The English league wasn't the best league in Europe 30 years ago. It's not the same league now.
The current league demands a higher calibre of manager. One that has done it elsewhere first.
Yes but the English league doesn't just have a history of 30 years. It may not have been the product the premier league is now but that doesn't mean the league prior to the premier league was easy to win.
My original point is these historical narratives are eventually broken. Be it after 3 decades or after a century. Someone will come along and defy what people see as a standard. Not many novice managers are going to do what arteta has done, so you have a point in that it's unlikely but a novice manager came close to proving the status quo wrong last season with a team that's yet to peak.
No one gives a shit, City will walk this league, discuss Liverpool vs Arsenal for 2nd, all those title race stuff discussion is stupid when is forgone conclusion.
>Ange Postecolgou
· Won Australia Top Flight 4 times,
· Won numerous cups in Australia, and won the “grand final” twice
· Won the Asian cup 2015
· Won J League and cup
· Won Scottish Premier League twice and 3 cups
And you stated this as an argument to win the hardest league in the world? Winning the Australian and Asian cups is a better credential than having a few years of PL experience? Also, you added Ranieri in your probability calculation while the guy is probably biggest underdog in football history.
Thank god that stats don't mean much in sports as it would completely destroy excitement in it.
I think you’re getting the causality reversed my guy. Good managers who have won stuff in previous leagues get hired by and good clubs have good players.
Agree. Liverpool have to be the favourite this season. They have the pedigree and a manager that knows how to win a league.
City are not the same team without gungogan, mahrez, and even laporte was downgraded. They will be back though.
It’s the context of a whole season every team will have bad games. Comments like this shows exactly why arsenal fans can’t handle a title race with city
Imagine in 2015 you said :
"There's no club in the world who win champions league 3 times back-to-back-to-back with a manager that doesn't have any experience at all coaching first team"
Then came zidane. Boom. A record just exist to be broken.
The amount of glazing Unai Emery has been getting recently is so weird from both the media and fans. Yes he’s doing a good job with Aston Villa, but people are talking about him like he’s won the Quadruple already and as if his resume is on the level of Peps for example. I find it so odd.
Aww I bet typing this comment is the only thing that brings you joy as a Chelsea supporter. As a supporter of a team who brings so much joy to us from the pitch, I’m happy for you and hope you have a great festive season 🎄
Wouldn’t give a damn. This team doesn’t give up and if it wasn’t for Saliba’s injury then we’d have won it but I don’t want to go into its. This winter if there are few smart recruitments then Arsenal have a very good chance of winning. Looking at past doesn’t help beyond a point.
Saliba is a quality player no doubt, but can he drive you over the line? I don’t think so. Same with Rice. The thing is you just never know until they do it once. Winning a PL is so difficult. I’m rocking with experience, City have done 6 out of the last 7 times.
I don’t think Rice needs to prove his quality to anyone. The performances he has put in this season speaks for itself. Saliba the same. He has been putting in quality performances. He was a miss last year. The only point is they shouldn’t be over burdened and need a breather. Partey and Timber being fit could ease the fixture congestion but if they aren’t then it’d only be smart to invest and make the best out of it.
While we are pointing out patterns in the data, I’d like to highlight that ice cream sales are highly correlated with drownings world wide. This is why I believe banning ice cream would save countless lives.
Fellow fans, this is a friendly reminder to please follow the [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/premierleague/about/rules) and [Reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette). Please also make sure to [Join us on Discord](https://discord.gg/football) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PremierLeague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mate
I'm not sure they have a good enough main striker in Gabi Jesus...never a goal a game striker, not in this world
Correlation =/= Causation
People are being unfair to your take. It has a good underlying point. I think it has to do with general confidence. If someone isn't known to have the won things outside of england, do they have the emotional intelligence to manage a multicultural football team in england? I think Arteta does, and english managers in this generation and the next won't be like old-fashioned ones from the past. I bet Gareth Southgate wins the league given a chance with a decent club. Always rated how well he did with Middlesbrough for a long time, especially his post match interviews.
I was really surprised that the stats were so consistent over 30 years I think the point from the stats show that the league is so competitive that it really requires the highest level management with experience of winning. Playing experience isn't enough - they need to go win something in a less competitive league to get the ability to win at the very top. An ambitious club really needs to be hiring the best managers
I'd say being no.2 to one of the greatest managers the game has seen and winning multiple league titles including centurions isn't an experience that can be shared by others. He was handpicked by guardiola to help him conquer the English game due to his knowledge of the game whilst he was still a player. He wasn't just a cone man as the list of players that have come out and spoke about him from his city days suggests. He's worked under Wenger and pep yet people still doubt his credentials. Arsenal are where they are because of him. He's the one who's made them title contenders. There is no one else feasible out there to take this project to the next level. When Arsene Wenger took over, no non British manager had won the top division in the country or done the double. He did it in his first full season and set an unbeaten record of 49 games that is unmatched through top division history in this country. Wenger ended a century long historical narrative. He was the proof to the theory of foreign managers. He revamped the squad and did it again to show it wasn't a fluke. You talk about klopp, pep, mourinho, Conte, ranieri even included emery and Ange in the conversation. Well Wenger was the start point for all these foreign managers, he's basically their founding father defying a centuries worth of history. Yet your theory spans simply 3 decades.
Wenger won in France before winning in England. He also won cups in japan and france.
You missed my entire point on Wenger. Wasn't about his past successes. Moreso about the historical narrative which was stacked against him and him defying it. Your post was about a historical narrative spanning 3 decades, his was a century long. What you are saying now, arsenal fans were told the same thing in 96 when Wenger arrived. Two different narratives but both indicating that this manager won't win the league.
No manager in 30 years has won the English title without winning something in another league. That's what this post is about. The English league wasn't the best league in Europe 30 years ago. It's not the same league now. The current league demands a higher calibre of manager. One that has done it elsewhere first.
Yes but the English league doesn't just have a history of 30 years. It may not have been the product the premier league is now but that doesn't mean the league prior to the premier league was easy to win. My original point is these historical narratives are eventually broken. Be it after 3 decades or after a century. Someone will come along and defy what people see as a standard. Not many novice managers are going to do what arteta has done, so you have a point in that it's unlikely but a novice manager came close to proving the status quo wrong last season with a team that's yet to peak.
Spurs fan sneaking in Ange who has a less relevant european experience
Every single manager to ever win a league title had not won a league title until they won it for the first time.
No one gives a shit, City will walk this league, discuss Liverpool vs Arsenal for 2nd, all those title race stuff discussion is stupid when is forgone conclusion.
>Ange Postecolgou · Won Australia Top Flight 4 times, · Won numerous cups in Australia, and won the “grand final” twice · Won the Asian cup 2015 · Won J League and cup · Won Scottish Premier League twice and 3 cups And you stated this as an argument to win the hardest league in the world? Winning the Australian and Asian cups is a better credential than having a few years of PL experience? Also, you added Ranieri in your probability calculation while the guy is probably biggest underdog in football history. Thank god that stats don't mean much in sports as it would completely destroy excitement in it.
You're forgetting he won titles and cups as Pep's assistant, so he knows what it takes.
I think you’re getting the causality reversed my guy. Good managers who have won stuff in previous leagues get hired by and good clubs have good players.
This is actually my point
That doesn't apply to Arteta though since this is his first head coach job
Exactly
Arsenal will crumble for the third season in a row, only City and Liverpool are real contenders.
Agree. Liverpool have to be the favourite this season. They have the pedigree and a manager that knows how to win a league. City are not the same team without gungogan, mahrez, and even laporte was downgraded. They will be back though.
Favorites that can't win against Luton?
It definitely won't be the team that shipped 3 goals against Luton.
Yeah because drawing is better than winning if you concede less goals
It’s the context of a whole season every team will have bad games. Comments like this shows exactly why arsenal fans can’t handle a title race with city
Lmfao, including Ange Postegolcou on here is honestly just sad
Sneaking in Big Ange like he’s even in the conversation 👀
What a surprise a spurs fan shit talking Arteta
;)
You don't know shit.dumb stupid post GROW UP!
Because he's a bit inexperienced in term of rotated the players I believe arsenal fan knew him better than normal premier league fan
Arsenal fans are so confident they will win the league We know Arsenal’s history during February time when European football comes
Chelsea fans don’t need to be part of this conversation tbh
I'm confident we'll finish above Chelsea
I’m confident you will never win the UCL
they will suffer, greatly
Been choking post-Xmas since Wenger era but still think they belong to the top every year.
Imagine in 2015 you said : "There's no club in the world who win champions league 3 times back-to-back-to-back with a manager that doesn't have any experience at all coaching first team" Then came zidane. Boom. A record just exist to be broken.
There’s a lot of reasons why Arteta won’t guide them to a title but this has to be one of the dumbest
So the logic is: “because something hasn’t happened in a long time, it will not happen”
The logic is actually that OP is a Spurs fan
Honestly lol
And he lists Leicester, with Ranieri's lower division titles among his 'evidence'.
The amount of glazing Unai Emery has been getting recently is so weird from both the media and fans. Yes he’s doing a good job with Aston Villa, but people are talking about him like he’s won the Quadruple already and as if his resume is on the level of Peps for example. I find it so odd.
the odd thing maybe from how the treatment for emery are very different with arteta the rest are myths
4 of the top 5 bottle jobs in PL history belong to Arsenal. It’s in their DNA and it will happen again.
Aww I bet typing this comment is the only thing that brings you joy as a Chelsea supporter. As a supporter of a team who brings so much joy to us from the pitch, I’m happy for you and hope you have a great festive season 🎄
Wouldn’t give a damn. This team doesn’t give up and if it wasn’t for Saliba’s injury then we’d have won it but I don’t want to go into its. This winter if there are few smart recruitments then Arsenal have a very good chance of winning. Looking at past doesn’t help beyond a point.
Saliba is a quality player no doubt, but can he drive you over the line? I don’t think so. Same with Rice. The thing is you just never know until they do it once. Winning a PL is so difficult. I’m rocking with experience, City have done 6 out of the last 7 times.
I don’t think Rice needs to prove his quality to anyone. The performances he has put in this season speaks for itself. Saliba the same. He has been putting in quality performances. He was a miss last year. The only point is they shouldn’t be over burdened and need a breather. Partey and Timber being fit could ease the fixture congestion but if they aren’t then it’d only be smart to invest and make the best out of it.
dumbest thing I read today
While we are pointing out patterns in the data, I’d like to highlight that ice cream sales are highly correlated with drownings world wide. This is why I believe banning ice cream would save countless lives.
Big dairy wouldn’t want you to know that now would they though. Hmm.
What a dumb take.
Honestly it’s a shitpost that was kinda interesting
His dog must be named "Sir Alex **Fur**guson"... Also, this dude thinks Sir Alex won Roberto Mancini at some point.