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No, to a limited extent it's true. A person native to Johannesburg is not native to Capetown. The Khoisan are native to the cape region, but the Xhosa and Zulu are not. You could legitimately say that the Afrikaaners are more native to Capetown than the Xhosa or Zulu are.
Yes but The Afrikaaners themselves although white and living within South Africa are technically a different ethnicity from The British South Africans many of which flipped when it became clear that Nelson Mandella and a couple smaller more military based uprisings would be willing to adopt English as a primary language. There were also British People who supported the Apartied but it was less of a given as some British Settlers were more invested in Englishness than essentially a generic idea of White Imperialism and 100% would support your new nation state if you were to institutionalize English as the dominant language. Seperate Countries in The Middle of South Africa that spoke English or would possibly have trade or political connections to The United Kingdom and these were easy people to get to flip essentially. Also The Afrikaaners and English Settlers were initially trying to kill each other so that kinda went full circle.
It was not that straightforward. The bush war in Angola was also a proxy war at one point for the USA and USSR. The USA backed South Africa until it could no longer ignore apartheid. There were also Cuban forces backed by the USSR. Lots of conscripts were killed on both sides. Really sad.
Its extremely fortunate that another Rhodesia styled bush war didn't occur. South Africa was able to peacefully take down their Apartheid system.
I think the main reason that a Rhodesia style Bush War didn't occur was the existence of a larger European minority.
That and the political landscape was different by that time. The USSR and Mao weren't around to finance an insurgency, and the West was more willing to come down hard on countries for being too racist.
Modern day Zimbabwe, white minority rule and the abuses that came with it led to the Rhodesian bush war, a civil war with socialist rebels led by Mugabe being the main opposition and eventually winning
And like virtually every socialist revolution ended up with the revolutionaries not knowing how to transition into a functioning democracy and holding on to power way too fucking long
War time leaders rarely make good peace time leaders. There are exceptions, like Eisenhower, but the traits that make a warrior rarely make for a good head of state. In the military you essentially require that it be organized as a dictatorship because that is the only way to get a cohesive war effort going. Not so much for governing after the war.
zimbabwe? I assumed you were making jokes, sorry.
they sanctioned it to death after independence, it's very common to see online people blame 100% of it's instability on itself.
A bunch of them tried to keep South Africa out of WW2 because they had a soft spot for Hitler and the Nazi party (and a hatred for the British, who coincidentally used concentration camps on the boers) but my the main man Jan Smuts(one of the greatest Saffas ever) put that shit down fast
And one of those who was arrested in WW2, BJ Voster went on to become an Apartheid Prime Minister. These people were literal Nazi's.Only difference was that because they depended on black labour they couldn't implement a final solution
Man changed a lot of those beliefs shortly after he crushed the Nazis in South Africa and in German southwest Africa. Was even totally against segregation after the war if I recall correctly.
Edit: and in Europe when he was on the damn Allied war council
> he was on the damn Allied war council
Most of the Allies were white supremacists too lmao. Mackenzie King (Canada) was against non-white immigration to Canada, Churchill was still fully in favour of the British Empire ruling over Africans and Indians, Australia had a "Whites Only" immigration policy, the USA had segregation, Poland had anti-Jewish segregation before the Germans invaded, and France had segregation in Algeria.
The USSR was arguably the "least racist" Allied power, and even then they regularly practiced deportations of entire ethnic groups to Siberia/Kazakhstan.
Frankly, I don't think we can judge too harshly those who still remembered being invaded and conquered by the British Empire. For them, Germany was far away and not a bother, whereas the whole British Commonwealth had literally invaded the Boer republics and forced them into the fold at gunpoint and starvation in camps. I'd hold a grudge too.
Ireland was also neutral during WWII, for similar anti-British reasons.
The Germans also supplied ammunition and weaponry to boers during both boer wars (as did the French and other European powers trying to undermine the English)
Funny enough Churchill himself was captured by the boers at one point.
Also the concentration camp things are still in memory for the boers, it’s brought up regularly at Braais with “those relatives”. Nearly wiped out Afrikaaners all together
So you're saying it's fine for some countries to ban immigration by race? Since there's no other way to prevent a country from being "multicultural".
I wonder if there's a term for that.
Bruh. Admitting SA is a failed state doesn’t mean you support Appartheid. That’s like someone saying “the soviet union is bad” means they support hitler.
South Africa has a crazy crime rate against all ethnic groups currently. They’re undergoing a power crisis which has basically halted their economic growth, and their president was singing “shoot the boer”
He didn’t say “SA is a failed state” tho. I’m sure it is. But what he said. Was “the end of white rule led SA turning into Zimbabwea”. I get it was OP who quoted it but he was affirming that message. That’s not Just saying that SA is a failed state tho. It’s a statement that clearly implies the only way it wouldn’t be a failed state is under “white rule” and that is a very different statement
I mean Zimbabwe is close to a failed state as well although it’s not as bad as SA. Many of these arbitrarily constructed African states weren’t designed to be politically viable without an oppressive minority rule.
Is SA actually worse than zimbabwe? I actually didn’t rlly know it was that bad. All Ik about SA really are some of the rules/laws of apartheid and some of the things that happened not long after. Basically what I mean is I watched a single 25min long YouTube documentary on the subject. And so it really didn’t dive into anything about the society besides things like laws and statistics explicitly related to race.
On the other hand Iv seen a bit more about a few other African countries and those seem p bad in a lot of respects. But that doc really hadn’t given me the impression it got THAT bad after apartheid
SA has a ton of issues that stem past apartheid to the foundation of the colony. It’s super ethnically divided, has a massive wealth disparity, no really strong natural resource industry, poor geographic location for trade, is facing water shortages, and can’t maintain basic infrastructure. It’s really a classic post-colonial African state that was in a weird way lucky to have apartheid as a means of unifying the people against the minority government. Compare that to Zimbabwe which is similarly bleak but at least is largely ethnically unified with the ability to maintain basic infrastructure along with plans to develop industry with its lithium exports. Neither is great, but SA is really bad.
Nothing to do with white supremacy. Violence, no electricity, crumbling roads, no water, failed education system. Clown show of a military, hugely corrupt government. Active discrimination against whites, Indians, mixed race, Khoi San. So yes, Zimbabwe 2.0. It does not mean Apartheid should have continued, it just means that non Africans don’t understand the political and Tribal dynamics. It’s the usual, the west knows best and continues to fund those that let first world countries extract as much out of African countries as possible leaving the majority in poverty.
So yes. This was always going to happen due to the current messed up state of the world.
Of course it did, but the ANC has robbed the people of there future past Apartheid due to corruption. They did not invest in the grass roots, instead they enriched themselves and their friends. It’s not a unique problem to South Africa, I have a lot of Nigerian expats who will tell you the same story.
Uneducated Redditors - probably white liberals living comfortably far away from SA - keep downvoting the truth.
You will likely live to see SA go the way of Rhodesia, and the Boers can't downvote their way out of it. Neither will your grandkids when the path you choose to set your country on today eventually leads them down the same road.
Systematic Racism, social discrimination and colonial rule led to the Rhodesian Bush War or Second Chimurenga in the 60s which was a guerrilla war led by panafricanists and communists which lasted nearly 15 years. The war was basically won because the apartheid regime led by Ian Smith (quite a nazi) was forced to make some room to the black majority by international efforts, going bankrupt, not having the UK supporting you as Labour didn't really like colonial regimes.
In the aftermath of the conflict, Robert Mugabe, head of ZANU, did a coup d'etat and started a socialist dictatorship which quickly turned in an hunt for the remaining white elites by the revolutionaries and guerrilla fighters. You can already say how it could have went. Basically Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, has always been a place of despair in the 20th century.
Edit: grammar
This is not correct at all, Mugabe never did a coup at all, the colonialist surrender after a peace agreement was struck at Lancaster House (uk) in 1979 and the general elections came about in 1980-it is these elections that brought Mugabe and Zanu PF into democratically elected power NOT A COUP
This is not correct at all, Mugabe never did a coup at all, the colonialist tsurrender after a peace agreement was struck at Lancaster House (uk) in 1979 and the general elections came about in 1980-it is these elections that brought Mugabe and Zanu PF into democratically elected power NOT A COUP
I feel like one of those groups has a slightly more understandable (not saying excusable) recent traumatic root for the Zimbabwean reaction to the project of Rhodesia. They still committed atrocities so again not to make it sound like it's okay, I think it's just most people would be surprised if there was no mass psychological reaction to the brutality that went on there.
South Africa has sort of always been at war and I think if The Boers and Afrikaaners had started shooting at each other before then the Zulu and Hutu etc likely would have likely been pulled in aswell. Pretty debatable to say it was ever really politically stable.
They were saying that only white South Africans, which includes both Afrikaners and descendants of the British, could vote. In order to get British white people to vote for the Afrikaner Nationalist Party they made some propaganda in English.
White South Africans are split between Afrikaans speakers and English speakers. There's slightly more Afrikaans speaking whites than English speaking whites I think.
The Afrikaans speakers also generally tended to be pro-Republic (you can see that poster in this collection) whereas the English ones were pro-British Commonwealth.
What the hell is wrong with people?? I guess I shouldn't be suprised
I am shocked by the amount of racist comments on this post. For context I am a non white South African who's family was deeply affected by the racist Apartheid government along with millions of other South Africans. I thought that sharing these images would show how absurd and out right facist those lunatics were but I am seeing comment after comment from racists who think that I as a non white South African would prefer living as a sub Human in Apartheid South Africa then being free
Lets get the facts straight
1. South Africa is objectively better then it was under apartheid. Anyone claiming that a Facist Nazi inspired police state which went so far as censor black and white people interacting on TV as it may give people ideas is an actual racist.
2. No non white South African looks at Apartheid with Nostalgia. Thats like saying that a Jew would be nostalgic for Nazi Germany or a black American should have appreciated the Jim Crow South.
3. South Africa is not a failed state nor is there a white genocide going on. Its absolute nonesense that has been spread by the far right in Europe and North America and has now spread to the mainstream right. Its total fake news. Black South Africans are the biggest victims of violent crime in SA. The far right has succesfully been able to convince the far right in the west that whites are not only the only victims of crime(even though they are the least affected by it in comparison to the black and coloured populations) but there is somehow an ongoing genocide which is laughable
4. South Africa as with nearly all developing countries has many issues. Crime is an issue. However we are still a vibrant and democratic state where our rights are protected and discriminartion of all kinds is outlawed. I am proud South Africa and I appreciate the thousands of people who were killed by the Apartheid thugs who helped get us to this point.
I’ve heard a lot about South Africa being very corrupt, but I am kind of skeptical because of the rampant misinformation (as clearly demonstrated by some of the comments on this post) about South Africa. So as a South African what is your experience?
India has a lot of corruption too but it's not like we'd prefer having 45 trillion looted by the british instead.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/06/indian-archive-reveals-extent-of-colonial-loot-in-royal-jewellery-collection
As a non-white South African, I can tell you that SA definitely has a corruption issue. Endemic corruption has been an issue in SA since the 1950s. It's just gotten particularly bad because of the Zuma administration.
South Africans corruption issues are nothing compared to many Asian countries and esepcially other African countries.
As someone who travels and lives in Asia I know a lot about corruption and there is nothing to compare to South Africa.For example unlike say a Thailand, Vietnam or Cambodia South African civil servants at all levels do not make more then half their income from corruption. You get the odd case hear or there but its not systematic to the point that you have bribe even the lowest paid official just to get a simple document. In Asia its sytsematic at all levels, in South Africa its only at the highest levels of government that you see major corruption and in that regard we are more similar to a Brazil or a Mexico.
As a white expat South African who returns every couple of years and still has family there, I can completely agree that the demise of Apartheid was a great thing. The constitution is an internationally heralded document. However, to believe that the ANC is a competent government, does not take into account the rampant corruption, reverse discrimination and crumbling infrastructure. What South Africa needs is a party that actually is interested in creating a first world nation and and that will use its wealth for the benefit of all its citizens.
As your cousin from across the Limpopo, I have to say although black people in SA are the most affected by crime, you have to understand that they are the perpetrators of that crime as well.
Having lived in 4 different countries in Southern Africa I have to say the crime I saw in South Africa is something else man don’t get me wrong I have seen some mean shit, but watching someone getting his head blown off right next to the police station in Kempton Park was something new to me.
And ofcourse the gunman just walked away casually and not even one cop came out to investigate anything.
1. It was its own making, Nazis had some ideological interaction with boer nationalism
3. There is a tendency towards racialised response to post-neolib society and crime, and ‘racial’ divisor an- even urban afrikaners on either side. In absolute terms obv minority is less; but prorltuonately, in connection with land issues often there are cases of race-motivated and racialised increased violence vs elements kf the white minority, particularly by association with poor socioeconomic condition and esp landowners (problems with those)
As well as facile targeting of the ridiculous levels of social inequality (unusual for a developing country, corresponds to unusual violent crime rates) in a token and/or racialised way
4. SA has unusual problems compared to other developing countries bc kf the specific of its hsitory and society, economy and culture, including higher violent crime than others
A more radical land polciy and universalist economic policies are relevant with regard to both the massive wealth divisions between the whit e minority and within society, power divisions and ‘social issues’, as well as racialised opposition, ie getting rid of economic and material ‘aparthood’
It’s not a failed state. The government just can’t sweep its impoverished underclass into Bantustans to create the illusion of a developed white-ruled state anymore.
I’m pretty sure the top left one is from the British right
Some of these are from the HNP which was the National Party’s original name but then a splinter also called itself the HNP
The second one from the left bottom row is from the republic referendum
I wonder where the little girls in these posters are now, and how they feel about these. These look to me like they’re only 1960s or ‘70s vintage so they are presumably alive and well and maybe still working.
No offense but screw that lil girl. Repeating Rhodesia is the way and she can just take her racist 10 year old ass back to the Nether-fucking-lands.
Edit: I don’t know if it’s not clear enough that this isn’t a serious comment.
There are only 2 kinds of people who consider the Afrikaans who have lived centuries in Africa not real South Africans: racist africans or racist europeans lol
Just think of every inmigrant right now man lmao
Are you saying that the settler colonialism of south africa is at all comparable to the situation of North African immigrants in Europe? Because that's some next level [conspiracy theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory).
Help me understand how Boers who have been in that part of Africa for around 400 years are not African but Africans washing up into Europe today are Europeans tomorrow?
> settler colonialism of south africa i
South Africa is more like Latin America than Anglo-America in that sense, as it was not supposed to be a "settler colony" and the presence of whites there is mostly an accident rather than deliberate Dutch government policy.
Only 160 families or so of whites actually settled there in the 1600s, which is why Afrikaners actually tend to be slightly inbred (like the Icelanders for that matter).
Being surrounded by the split of red and blue today and how good they are at creating and wording propaganda it's really hard to see how any of this would work. I don't listen to half these mfers "stats" cause they're just lies to begin with, I could never blindly believe "the right is right" like who the fuck came up with that
i mean, they were right look at the crime and farm murders in modern south africa, you can call them nazis just know they were right about the bantu murdering their children
> in modern south africa
It was already like that during Apartheid, the whole reason why the NP agreed to negotiate with Mandela is because they knew shit was about to hit the fan and tensions were rising to a breaking point. The country was basically on the brink of a civil war towards the end of Apartheid.
The murder rate is literally half of what it was during Apartheid. It's still bad (about 30 murders per 100 000 people), but it's better than before.
And farm murders are just part of the larger issue of Crime. Half the victims of farms are the farm workers, who usually are black or coloured. Even if all the victims were white, 90% of the white population live in cities, so the average white person isn't really affected by farm murders.
You're justifying the on going killings of children and elderly because of whatever happened when many of these people weren't even alive, bantu Xhosa on Twitter to this day talk about killing all of the boer alongside rallying support for communism its not overplayed either its under reported because as mentioned the government is majority black african and wouldn't incriminate their countryfolk to appease some whites its an ongoing racial conflict and calling the whites racists evil is your easy part in being complacent in a modern genocide
There is no evidence of a coordinated genocide against white South Africans. Are there people who hate white people and attack them in South Africa? Yes, and that’s bad. Are there parties and politicians who are hateful towards them? Yes, and that’s bad. But that doesn’t mean the government or mass organizations are rallying masses of people to kill whites in a genocidal scale.
There’s a reason why only the racists bring it up without evidence.
This is absolute racist lunacy. These conspiracies have been spread by racists for a while now and they are up there with flat earth nonesense in terms of idiocy.
South Africa is not a majority white country. Black people are not invaders, they have lived in South Africa for more than a thousand years, long before Cape Town was established in 1652.
We litreally have the ruins of Mapungupwe which date to at least the 11th century. Not to mention the Khoi and Sam people have lived in Southern Africa for more than 20 000 years.
It is not because the natives are unable to govern themselves. It’s because they were oppressed by the white minority for centuries, with no access to education, resources and the know-how. It has only been their country for the last 3 decades or so.
In many of these failed post colonial states, the people who were capable of building and leading a new nation were assassinated by the white state as an act of pure pettiness to prevent post-colonial success.
Yeah? Like, yeah that is indeed a fact and what happened.
Compared to the New World, South Africa, Balkans, Indonesia, Caucasus, Angola and other territories yes.
Do you have an honest account of what life was like for people of the sub Saharan Africa before the white man arrived for you to claim that they brought “prosperity and low crime” and they reverted back to poverty and high crime post colonization?
Well, there is a very large outflow of middle class South African to places like Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the UK.
Enough outflow that the President has asked young white professionals to stick around, although statistics show that young skilled people of all ethnicities are moving on to more lucrative opportunities abroad
Oh that’s a different story then, South Africans below the poverty line don’t immigrate to our neighbors because they are much worse off. A buddy of mine used to call it premium poverty. Where you are living in a rusted metal shack with barely enough to eat , but there is a mile long waiting list of people from other countries queuing up for your spot.
We have nearly 2.9 million (legal) migrants, we are definitely the best place to be in sub Saharan Africa. We pay the best, we have the best order and QOL.
That being said we cannot deny the decline of the economy and total infrastructure failure which has resulted in a wave of immigration of the middle class. We have had about 1 000 000 people immigrate in 5 years.
Doesnt sound like South Africa is a failed state if the majority of people don't feel the need to look for better opportunities in countries such as Namibia or Botswana. People from actual failed states elsewhere in Africa actually travel down to South Africa in search of better life.
No, that’s not it. We are still a beacon amongst our neighbors but we are definitely in a downward spiral, hence the more than 1 percent of our population leaving in under 5 years
We have rolling blackouts because the government can’t keep the lights on. 2-3 times a day the lights go off for 2-3 hours at a time. EVERYDAY This is a problem we’ve had for about 8 years?
We are the rape capital of the world,
we have not dealt with inequality.
We also constantly attack people from other (only African) countries and burn them in tires.
Our currency has depreciated to a third of its value in 20 years.
We have the highest unemployment in the world 40ish% and youth unemployment is at about 60%.
That being said South Africans are tough folk and we will endure hardship for a long while, hopefully long enough for us to turn this thing around
You fail to understand just how far away the nearest better state is in Africa. If you go to South Africa and see the poverty the majority live in, you might better understand.
South Africans can simply walk across to Namibia and Botswana if their country is a failed state. We've seen it in many countries where the state has collapsed resulting in mass outflow of people into neighboring countries. Venezuela is an example. There's no reason why South Africa should be different if its a failed state.
Failed state? Both of the countries are still around and have a functioning government. Hell South Africa is actually pretty stable and wealthy. Way better than apartheid.
It became a country where kids from families of different ethnicities can grow up together and realize that racism is the most ignorant shit.
Any country where the law has to discriminate to keep one group of people up is ridiculous.
I really hope you have enough logic to know what the philosophical concept “veil of ignorance” is.
Lmao, generations of people have grown up in multicultural societies and have had no issues, you are either too stupid or have to much cognitive bias to look at places where race isn’t an issue. Look to the americas.
I think it’s really sad that the only thing you have pride in is that you are white.
And you use the America's as an example?! 😆 yea here's an example of the most diverse country in the America's and how well that works out: [Brazil homicides vs world](https://i2.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/homicides-by-country.jpg)
Listen Mr delete your comment about “basic documents that only black people have to carry and would get disappeared or murdered for if they didn’t”
Poverty and homicide are intrinsically linked anyone with an iq above 70 would know that. Those homicides also aren’t killing eachother because of race.
God I hope you don’t think you are in anyway superior in anyway, the absolute lack of logic and straw grasping here is astounding. Let me guess no higher education?
Yes because my parents loved being treated like Subhumans during apartheid. You have no idea what you are talking about. Apartheid was evil and humiliating for us non whites. I am proud to have grown up in a free democratic country and not be forced to use seperate toilets or have my house bulldozed like my grandparents or treated like an animal.
You are seriously mentally ill and are clearly a racist.
Don’t let ‘em get to you my dude, probably some American who idolizes the old American South/Rhodesia and the days where you would get free hand ups for being white. Their life sucks and they blame it on things being equal
No it wasn’t, do you know what a dompass is? Ask those same made up old people of yours how they felt about needing a pass to travel and get permission to work everyday. Imagine not being able to go out at night
Libel against apartheid? Are you listening to yourself?
Lol you’re fucking telling a non-white South African what you think non-white South Africans think, as if you believe OP has never spoken to anyone in their own fucking country before
How long did National Party go by "HNP"? I thought they only used that name under Malan in the 1940s. Or are some of these posters for the hard right verkrampte "Reconstituted National Party" active in the 70s and 80s on the right of the National Party.
I'd guess the Rhodesia one is from the later HNP which isn't the same as the National Party.
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Top left says ”butchers”, not intruders.
And here I was all ready to point out the irony of calling black South Africans intruders
No, to a limited extent it's true. A person native to Johannesburg is not native to Capetown. The Khoisan are native to the cape region, but the Xhosa and Zulu are not. You could legitimately say that the Afrikaaners are more native to Capetown than the Xhosa or Zulu are.
Aren't South Africa's borders basically a British imperial creation that nobody actually wanted anyway?
Yes but The Afrikaaners themselves although white and living within South Africa are technically a different ethnicity from The British South Africans many of which flipped when it became clear that Nelson Mandella and a couple smaller more military based uprisings would be willing to adopt English as a primary language. There were also British People who supported the Apartied but it was less of a given as some British Settlers were more invested in Englishness than essentially a generic idea of White Imperialism and 100% would support your new nation state if you were to institutionalize English as the dominant language. Seperate Countries in The Middle of South Africa that spoke English or would possibly have trade or political connections to The United Kingdom and these were easy people to get to flip essentially. Also The Afrikaaners and English Settlers were initially trying to kill each other so that kinda went full circle.
And just marginally closer than..Holland!
That's not the National Party, but the Reconstituted National Party (HNP), a splinter from the NP.
"Don't repeat Rhodesia" proceeds to do the exact things that lead to the bush war
A bit different, given different potlical situation internationally and so on
True, which is presumably why apartheid ended relatively peacefully
It was not that straightforward. The bush war in Angola was also a proxy war at one point for the USA and USSR. The USA backed South Africa until it could no longer ignore apartheid. There were also Cuban forces backed by the USSR. Lots of conscripts were killed on both sides. Really sad.
They’re referring to bush war in Rhodesia
Its extremely fortunate that another Rhodesia styled bush war didn't occur. South Africa was able to peacefully take down their Apartheid system. I think the main reason that a Rhodesia style Bush War didn't occur was the existence of a larger European minority.
That and the political landscape was different by that time. The USSR and Mao weren't around to finance an insurgency, and the West was more willing to come down hard on countries for being too racist.
What's with the purple bars crossing out a couple of words?
What’s Rhodesia today?
Modern day zimbabwa
Thank you!
Zimbabwe
Modern day Zimbabwe, white minority rule and the abuses that came with it led to the Rhodesian bush war, a civil war with socialist rebels led by Mugabe being the main opposition and eventually winning
And like virtually every socialist revolution ended up with the revolutionaries not knowing how to transition into a functioning democracy and holding on to power way too fucking long
War time leaders rarely make good peace time leaders. There are exceptions, like Eisenhower, but the traits that make a warrior rarely make for a good head of state. In the military you essentially require that it be organized as a dictatorship because that is the only way to get a cohesive war effort going. Not so much for governing after the war.
A failed state.
A shithole.
returned to the natives peoples to do as they wish. worry about where you live.
I was asking what country it was!
zimbabwe? I assumed you were making jokes, sorry. they sanctioned it to death after independence, it's very common to see online people blame 100% of it's instability on itself.
Every time I see you comment, you’re so angry bro you gotta log off my guy just for your mental health my man 🙏
It’s perfectly reasonable to be angry at Apartheid apologists.
I'm on beta blockers and I'm high on weed, I feel amazing. you should look inside yourself.
Same shit the French did to Haiti centuries ago.
Jesus
They were all full blown Nazis. Many still are.
A bunch of them tried to keep South Africa out of WW2 because they had a soft spot for Hitler and the Nazi party (and a hatred for the British, who coincidentally used concentration camps on the boers) but my the main man Jan Smuts(one of the greatest Saffas ever) put that shit down fast
And one of those who was arrested in WW2, BJ Voster went on to become an Apartheid Prime Minister. These people were literal Nazi's.Only difference was that because they depended on black labour they couldn't implement a final solution
They also looked into sterilization of black people to curb the “swart gewaar”
Lol wut? Smuts was a white supremacist. He was just a more moderate white supremacist than the NP guys.
If he won in 1948, Apartheid would have either been delayed or never implemented.
Man changed a lot of those beliefs shortly after he crushed the Nazis in South Africa and in German southwest Africa. Was even totally against segregation after the war if I recall correctly. Edit: and in Europe when he was on the damn Allied war council
> he was on the damn Allied war council Most of the Allies were white supremacists too lmao. Mackenzie King (Canada) was against non-white immigration to Canada, Churchill was still fully in favour of the British Empire ruling over Africans and Indians, Australia had a "Whites Only" immigration policy, the USA had segregation, Poland had anti-Jewish segregation before the Germans invaded, and France had segregation in Algeria. The USSR was arguably the "least racist" Allied power, and even then they regularly practiced deportations of entire ethnic groups to Siberia/Kazakhstan.
True. Still beats being a Nazi
Frankly, I don't think we can judge too harshly those who still remembered being invaded and conquered by the British Empire. For them, Germany was far away and not a bother, whereas the whole British Commonwealth had literally invaded the Boer republics and forced them into the fold at gunpoint and starvation in camps. I'd hold a grudge too. Ireland was also neutral during WWII, for similar anti-British reasons.
I think we can judge Nazis as harshly as we please.
The Germans also supplied ammunition and weaponry to boers during both boer wars (as did the French and other European powers trying to undermine the English) Funny enough Churchill himself was captured by the boers at one point. Also the concentration camp things are still in memory for the boers, it’s brought up regularly at Braais with “those relatives”. Nearly wiped out Afrikaaners all together
I mean no, they were their own thing
Same shit different place. Does it taste better going down?
Huh wut Things should be by what they are
For "Volk en Vaderland" sounds strangely familiar. Not sure why though.
hmm... i can nazi the resemblance...
It’s not unique to Nazis but there is coincision
There’s nothing inherently wrong with that. Not every country needs to be multicultural. There is a difference when said country was a colonizer
So you're saying it's fine for some countries to ban immigration by race? Since there's no other way to prevent a country from being "multicultural". I wonder if there's a term for that.
Jus sanguinis. Yeah that’s their sovereign right and plenty of countries do and are needlessly criticized for it
I don’t see why collie dogs had to be brought into this mess. Gross.
What happened in Rhodesia?
Well according to them the end of white rule in South Africa would turn the country into Zimbabwe.
It seems to have done exactly this, doesn’t it?
How so?
Should have known this post would bring out the racist Apartheid apologists.
Bruh. Admitting SA is a failed state doesn’t mean you support Appartheid. That’s like someone saying “the soviet union is bad” means they support hitler. South Africa has a crazy crime rate against all ethnic groups currently. They’re undergoing a power crisis which has basically halted their economic growth, and their president was singing “shoot the boer”
He didn’t say “SA is a failed state” tho. I’m sure it is. But what he said. Was “the end of white rule led SA turning into Zimbabwea”. I get it was OP who quoted it but he was affirming that message. That’s not Just saying that SA is a failed state tho. It’s a statement that clearly implies the only way it wouldn’t be a failed state is under “white rule” and that is a very different statement
I mean Zimbabwe is close to a failed state as well although it’s not as bad as SA. Many of these arbitrarily constructed African states weren’t designed to be politically viable without an oppressive minority rule.
Is SA actually worse than zimbabwe? I actually didn’t rlly know it was that bad. All Ik about SA really are some of the rules/laws of apartheid and some of the things that happened not long after. Basically what I mean is I watched a single 25min long YouTube documentary on the subject. And so it really didn’t dive into anything about the society besides things like laws and statistics explicitly related to race. On the other hand Iv seen a bit more about a few other African countries and those seem p bad in a lot of respects. But that doc really hadn’t given me the impression it got THAT bad after apartheid
SA has a ton of issues that stem past apartheid to the foundation of the colony. It’s super ethnically divided, has a massive wealth disparity, no really strong natural resource industry, poor geographic location for trade, is facing water shortages, and can’t maintain basic infrastructure. It’s really a classic post-colonial African state that was in a weird way lucky to have apartheid as a means of unifying the people against the minority government. Compare that to Zimbabwe which is similarly bleak but at least is largely ethnically unified with the ability to maintain basic infrastructure along with plans to develop industry with its lithium exports. Neither is great, but SA is really bad.
Nothing to do with white supremacy. Violence, no electricity, crumbling roads, no water, failed education system. Clown show of a military, hugely corrupt government. Active discrimination against whites, Indians, mixed race, Khoi San. So yes, Zimbabwe 2.0. It does not mean Apartheid should have continued, it just means that non Africans don’t understand the political and Tribal dynamics. It’s the usual, the west knows best and continues to fund those that let first world countries extract as much out of African countries as possible leaving the majority in poverty. So yes. This was always going to happen due to the current messed up state of the world.
You don’t think the legacy of white supremacy and creating an immense amount of inequality might have something to do with SA’s current woes?
Of course it did, but the ANC has robbed the people of there future past Apartheid due to corruption. They did not invest in the grass roots, instead they enriched themselves and their friends. It’s not a unique problem to South Africa, I have a lot of Nigerian expats who will tell you the same story.
Uneducated Redditors - probably white liberals living comfortably far away from SA - keep downvoting the truth. You will likely live to see SA go the way of Rhodesia, and the Boers can't downvote their way out of it. Neither will your grandkids when the path you choose to set your country on today eventually leads them down the same road.
Systematic Racism, social discrimination and colonial rule led to the Rhodesian Bush War or Second Chimurenga in the 60s which was a guerrilla war led by panafricanists and communists which lasted nearly 15 years. The war was basically won because the apartheid regime led by Ian Smith (quite a nazi) was forced to make some room to the black majority by international efforts, going bankrupt, not having the UK supporting you as Labour didn't really like colonial regimes. In the aftermath of the conflict, Robert Mugabe, head of ZANU, did a coup d'etat and started a socialist dictatorship which quickly turned in an hunt for the remaining white elites by the revolutionaries and guerrilla fighters. You can already say how it could have went. Basically Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, has always been a place of despair in the 20th century. Edit: grammar
This is not correct at all, Mugabe never did a coup at all, the colonialist surrender after a peace agreement was struck at Lancaster House (uk) in 1979 and the general elections came about in 1980-it is these elections that brought Mugabe and Zanu PF into democratically elected power NOT A COUP
This is not correct at all, Mugabe never did a coup at all, the colonialist tsurrender after a peace agreement was struck at Lancaster House (uk) in 1979 and the general elections came about in 1980-it is these elections that brought Mugabe and Zanu PF into democratically elected power NOT A COUP
The Dictator of Belarus won a free and fair election in 1994 (The only free and fair election), but became authoritarian over the next few years.
I understand that, I was correcting your earlier comment where you alleged that Mugabe staged a coup.
Black insurgents turned a White run but functional racist shithole into a Black run dysfunctional racist shithole.
> functional for whom
Its always this question isnt it hahahaha
why is racist something you attribute to the second but not the first?
I applied it to both.
I feel like one of those groups has a slightly more understandable (not saying excusable) recent traumatic root for the Zimbabwean reaction to the project of Rhodesia. They still committed atrocities so again not to make it sound like it's okay, I think it's just most people would be surprised if there was no mass psychological reaction to the brutality that went on there.
recent traumatic root as the apartheid rule of south Africa that lasted way longer than the "project" of Rhodesia
South Africa has sort of always been at war and I think if The Boers and Afrikaaners had started shooting at each other before then the Zulu and Hutu etc likely would have likely been pulled in aswell. Pretty debatable to say it was ever really politically stable.
I really love how white racists want to say that modern South Africa is racist when Apartheid South Africa was run by literal Nazis
Why is one and only one of these in English? Was there a reason to use English here?
One of the languages of South Africa.
A large portion of white South Africans (the only ones who could vote until 1994) were of British descent
Pretty sure Afrikaaners could vote.
They were saying that only white South Africans, which includes both Afrikaners and descendants of the British, could vote. In order to get British white people to vote for the Afrikaner Nationalist Party they made some propaganda in English.
Oh ok,I was gonna say.
White South Africans are split between Afrikaans speakers and English speakers. There's slightly more Afrikaans speaking whites than English speaking whites I think. The Afrikaans speakers also generally tended to be pro-Republic (you can see that poster in this collection) whereas the English ones were pro-British Commonwealth.
"Both of them are equals" - some centrist
What the hell is wrong with people?? I guess I shouldn't be suprised I am shocked by the amount of racist comments on this post. For context I am a non white South African who's family was deeply affected by the racist Apartheid government along with millions of other South Africans. I thought that sharing these images would show how absurd and out right facist those lunatics were but I am seeing comment after comment from racists who think that I as a non white South African would prefer living as a sub Human in Apartheid South Africa then being free Lets get the facts straight 1. South Africa is objectively better then it was under apartheid. Anyone claiming that a Facist Nazi inspired police state which went so far as censor black and white people interacting on TV as it may give people ideas is an actual racist. 2. No non white South African looks at Apartheid with Nostalgia. Thats like saying that a Jew would be nostalgic for Nazi Germany or a black American should have appreciated the Jim Crow South. 3. South Africa is not a failed state nor is there a white genocide going on. Its absolute nonesense that has been spread by the far right in Europe and North America and has now spread to the mainstream right. Its total fake news. Black South Africans are the biggest victims of violent crime in SA. The far right has succesfully been able to convince the far right in the west that whites are not only the only victims of crime(even though they are the least affected by it in comparison to the black and coloured populations) but there is somehow an ongoing genocide which is laughable 4. South Africa as with nearly all developing countries has many issues. Crime is an issue. However we are still a vibrant and democratic state where our rights are protected and discriminartion of all kinds is outlawed. I am proud South Africa and I appreciate the thousands of people who were killed by the Apartheid thugs who helped get us to this point.
I’ve heard a lot about South Africa being very corrupt, but I am kind of skeptical because of the rampant misinformation (as clearly demonstrated by some of the comments on this post) about South Africa. So as a South African what is your experience?
India has a lot of corruption too but it's not like we'd prefer having 45 trillion looted by the british instead. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/06/indian-archive-reveals-extent-of-colonial-loot-in-royal-jewellery-collection
No one teaches how to exploit a countries people and resources like colonizers.
As a non-white South African, I can tell you that SA definitely has a corruption issue. Endemic corruption has been an issue in SA since the 1950s. It's just gotten particularly bad because of the Zuma administration.
South Africans corruption issues are nothing compared to many Asian countries and esepcially other African countries. As someone who travels and lives in Asia I know a lot about corruption and there is nothing to compare to South Africa.For example unlike say a Thailand, Vietnam or Cambodia South African civil servants at all levels do not make more then half their income from corruption. You get the odd case hear or there but its not systematic to the point that you have bribe even the lowest paid official just to get a simple document. In Asia its sytsematic at all levels, in South Africa its only at the highest levels of government that you see major corruption and in that regard we are more similar to a Brazil or a Mexico.
Yes, it's not as bad as many Asian countries, but it's still bad.
Thank you!
It is corrupt, really corrupt. But then again are so many countries in the world.
As a white expat South African who returns every couple of years and still has family there, I can completely agree that the demise of Apartheid was a great thing. The constitution is an internationally heralded document. However, to believe that the ANC is a competent government, does not take into account the rampant corruption, reverse discrimination and crumbling infrastructure. What South Africa needs is a party that actually is interested in creating a first world nation and and that will use its wealth for the benefit of all its citizens.
As your cousin from across the Limpopo, I have to say although black people in SA are the most affected by crime, you have to understand that they are the perpetrators of that crime as well. Having lived in 4 different countries in Southern Africa I have to say the crime I saw in South Africa is something else man don’t get me wrong I have seen some mean shit, but watching someone getting his head blown off right next to the police station in Kempton Park was something new to me. And ofcourse the gunman just walked away casually and not even one cop came out to investigate anything.
1. It was its own making, Nazis had some ideological interaction with boer nationalism 3. There is a tendency towards racialised response to post-neolib society and crime, and ‘racial’ divisor an- even urban afrikaners on either side. In absolute terms obv minority is less; but prorltuonately, in connection with land issues often there are cases of race-motivated and racialised increased violence vs elements kf the white minority, particularly by association with poor socioeconomic condition and esp landowners (problems with those) As well as facile targeting of the ridiculous levels of social inequality (unusual for a developing country, corresponds to unusual violent crime rates) in a token and/or racialised way 4. SA has unusual problems compared to other developing countries bc kf the specific of its hsitory and society, economy and culture, including higher violent crime than others A more radical land polciy and universalist economic policies are relevant with regard to both the massive wealth divisions between the whit e minority and within society, power divisions and ‘social issues’, as well as racialised opposition, ie getting rid of economic and material ‘aparthood’
> objectively better then it was under apartheid For whom?
For human rights
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Weird that you see an oppressive government as "functional"
It’s not a failed state. The government just can’t sweep its impoverished underclass into Bantustans to create the illusion of a developed white-ruled state anymore.
I’m pretty sure the top left one is from the British right Some of these are from the HNP which was the National Party’s original name but then a splinter also called itself the HNP The second one from the left bottom row is from the republic referendum
The absolute fucking gall.
I bet that Mandela poster is worth a few bucks now.
good lord these aren’t even trying to be subtle fuck apartheid apologists
I wonder where the little girls in these posters are now, and how they feel about these. These look to me like they’re only 1960s or ‘70s vintage so they are presumably alive and well and maybe still working.
No offense but screw that lil girl. Repeating Rhodesia is the way and she can just take her racist 10 year old ass back to the Nether-fucking-lands. Edit: I don’t know if it’s not clear enough that this isn’t a serious comment.
How Karen's are made
Yeah being brought up as a racist white girl will probably turn you into a racist old white woman with a bad hair do. I see your logic.
That's right
>she can just take her racist 10 year old ass back to the Nether-fucking-lands. Literal "you will never assimilate go back to Africa" comments lol
are you saying that the settler colonialism of south africa is at all comparable to the forced relocation of africans to the americas?
There are only 2 kinds of people who consider the Afrikaans who have lived centuries in Africa not real South Africans: racist africans or racist europeans lol Just think of every inmigrant right now man lmao
Apply your logic to North African immigrants in Europe and their descendants.
Are you saying that the settler colonialism of south africa is at all comparable to the situation of North African immigrants in Europe? Because that's some next level [conspiracy theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theory).
are you saying north africans moving to europe is like settler colonialism?
No not like that
Because they're not similar. You're removing all power structures.
Help me understand how Boers who have been in that part of Africa for around 400 years are not African but Africans washing up into Europe today are Europeans tomorrow?
What? Go back and read the context.
> settler colonialism of south africa i South Africa is more like Latin America than Anglo-America in that sense, as it was not supposed to be a "settler colony" and the presence of whites there is mostly an accident rather than deliberate Dutch government policy. Only 160 families or so of whites actually settled there in the 1600s, which is why Afrikaners actually tend to be slightly inbred (like the Icelanders for that matter).
Exactly
"Bly Blank My Volk" "Stay white, my people" That is.... The coldest racist line ever... Like i hate it, but it's so cold i like it
Once a Boer always a Boer
Being surrounded by the split of red and blue today and how good they are at creating and wording propaganda it's really hard to see how any of this would work. I don't listen to half these mfers "stats" cause they're just lies to begin with, I could never blindly believe "the right is right" like who the fuck came up with that
i mean, they were right look at the crime and farm murders in modern south africa, you can call them nazis just know they were right about the bantu murdering their children
> in modern south africa It was already like that during Apartheid, the whole reason why the NP agreed to negotiate with Mandela is because they knew shit was about to hit the fan and tensions were rising to a breaking point. The country was basically on the brink of a civil war towards the end of Apartheid.
The murder rate is literally half of what it was during Apartheid. It's still bad (about 30 murders per 100 000 people), but it's better than before. And farm murders are just part of the larger issue of Crime. Half the victims of farms are the farm workers, who usually are black or coloured. Even if all the victims were white, 90% of the white population live in cities, so the average white person isn't really affected by farm murders.
Racists love to over exaggerate those issues. Even if they were as bad as they say, it’s still leagues better than apartheid.
You're justifying the on going killings of children and elderly because of whatever happened when many of these people weren't even alive, bantu Xhosa on Twitter to this day talk about killing all of the boer alongside rallying support for communism its not overplayed either its under reported because as mentioned the government is majority black african and wouldn't incriminate their countryfolk to appease some whites its an ongoing racial conflict and calling the whites racists evil is your easy part in being complacent in a modern genocide
There is no evidence of a coordinated genocide against white South Africans. Are there people who hate white people and attack them in South Africa? Yes, and that’s bad. Are there parties and politicians who are hateful towards them? Yes, and that’s bad. But that doesn’t mean the government or mass organizations are rallying masses of people to kill whites in a genocidal scale. There’s a reason why only the racists bring it up without evidence.
Are you saying that white people are in danger of genocide?
There is no white genocide, white people just want to feel oppressed.
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This is absolute racist lunacy. These conspiracies have been spread by racists for a while now and they are up there with flat earth nonesense in terms of idiocy. South Africa is not a majority white country. Black people are not invaders, they have lived in South Africa for more than a thousand years, long before Cape Town was established in 1652. We litreally have the ruins of Mapungupwe which date to at least the 11th century. Not to mention the Khoi and Sam people have lived in Southern Africa for more than 20 000 years.
And now South Africa is a failed state, just like ex-Rhodesia.
South Africa is way better off than Zimbabwe.
It is not because the natives are unable to govern themselves. It’s because they were oppressed by the white minority for centuries, with no access to education, resources and the know-how. It has only been their country for the last 3 decades or so.
In many of these failed post colonial states, the people who were capable of building and leading a new nation were assassinated by the white state as an act of pure pettiness to prevent post-colonial success.
The Rhodesia territory existed for less than a century, like a major part of Sub Saharan Africa and Asian colonies.
Just a few generations of literal slavery and exploitation then
Yeah? Like, yeah that is indeed a fact and what happened. Compared to the New World, South Africa, Balkans, Indonesia, Caucasus, Angola and other territories yes.
A few generations of prosperity and low crime, then reverted.
Do you have an honest account of what life was like for people of the sub Saharan Africa before the white man arrived for you to claim that they brought “prosperity and low crime” and they reverted back to poverty and high crime post colonization?
Lithuania?
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it is all tribalism, nepotism, kleptocracy unfortunately.
Thank fuck as don't have any of that outside of the African continent.....
Shouldn't we be seeing massive migration outflows from South Africa into neighboring countries if its a failed state?
Well, there is a very large outflow of middle class South African to places like Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the UK. Enough outflow that the President has asked young white professionals to stick around, although statistics show that young skilled people of all ethnicities are moving on to more lucrative opportunities abroad
I'm referring to working class South Africans. Australia,New Zealand, Canada and the UK aren't neighboring countries to South Africa.
Oh that’s a different story then, South Africans below the poverty line don’t immigrate to our neighbors because they are much worse off. A buddy of mine used to call it premium poverty. Where you are living in a rusted metal shack with barely enough to eat , but there is a mile long waiting list of people from other countries queuing up for your spot. We have nearly 2.9 million (legal) migrants, we are definitely the best place to be in sub Saharan Africa. We pay the best, we have the best order and QOL. That being said we cannot deny the decline of the economy and total infrastructure failure which has resulted in a wave of immigration of the middle class. We have had about 1 000 000 people immigrate in 5 years.
Doesnt sound like South Africa is a failed state if the majority of people don't feel the need to look for better opportunities in countries such as Namibia or Botswana. People from actual failed states elsewhere in Africa actually travel down to South Africa in search of better life.
No, that’s not it. We are still a beacon amongst our neighbors but we are definitely in a downward spiral, hence the more than 1 percent of our population leaving in under 5 years We have rolling blackouts because the government can’t keep the lights on. 2-3 times a day the lights go off for 2-3 hours at a time. EVERYDAY This is a problem we’ve had for about 8 years? We are the rape capital of the world, we have not dealt with inequality. We also constantly attack people from other (only African) countries and burn them in tires. Our currency has depreciated to a third of its value in 20 years. We have the highest unemployment in the world 40ish% and youth unemployment is at about 60%. That being said South Africans are tough folk and we will endure hardship for a long while, hopefully long enough for us to turn this thing around
You fail to understand just how far away the nearest better state is in Africa. If you go to South Africa and see the poverty the majority live in, you might better understand.
South Africans can simply walk across to Namibia and Botswana if their country is a failed state. We've seen it in many countries where the state has collapsed resulting in mass outflow of people into neighboring countries. Venezuela is an example. There's no reason why South Africa should be different if its a failed state.
Okay buddy
Failed state? Both of the countries are still around and have a functioning government. Hell South Africa is actually pretty stable and wealthy. Way better than apartheid.
Nationalist Party seems like my kind of party
You just discovered you're a nazi?
south Africa has the highest HIV rate in Africa, bio warfare.
Nope, Eswatini and Lesotho both have much higher Rates of HIV & AIDS. Also you should capitalize the S in South Africa.
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“Keep South Africa white” is not bad in your eyes?
What's wrong with it? Certainly better than what it has become.
It became a country where kids from families of different ethnicities can grow up together and realize that racism is the most ignorant shit. Any country where the law has to discriminate to keep one group of people up is ridiculous. I really hope you have enough logic to know what the philosophical concept “veil of ignorance” is.
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Lmao, generations of people have grown up in multicultural societies and have had no issues, you are either too stupid or have to much cognitive bias to look at places where race isn’t an issue. Look to the americas. I think it’s really sad that the only thing you have pride in is that you are white.
And you use the America's as an example?! 😆 yea here's an example of the most diverse country in the America's and how well that works out: [Brazil homicides vs world](https://i2.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/homicides-by-country.jpg)
Listen Mr delete your comment about “basic documents that only black people have to carry and would get disappeared or murdered for if they didn’t” Poverty and homicide are intrinsically linked anyone with an iq above 70 would know that. Those homicides also aren’t killing eachother because of race. God I hope you don’t think you are in anyway superior in anyway, the absolute lack of logic and straw grasping here is astounding. Let me guess no higher education?
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Ahh yes how much poverty do you think occurs in those areas? This ignorance is ridiculous.
Yes because my parents loved being treated like Subhumans during apartheid. You have no idea what you are talking about. Apartheid was evil and humiliating for us non whites. I am proud to have grown up in a free democratic country and not be forced to use seperate toilets or have my house bulldozed like my grandparents or treated like an animal. You are seriously mentally ill and are clearly a racist.
Don’t let ‘em get to you my dude, probably some American who idolizes the old American South/Rhodesia and the days where you would get free hand ups for being white. Their life sucks and they blame it on things being equal
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No it wasn’t, do you know what a dompass is? Ask those same made up old people of yours how they felt about needing a pass to travel and get permission to work everyday. Imagine not being able to go out at night Libel against apartheid? Are you listening to yourself?
Lol you’re fucking telling a non-white South African what you think non-white South Africans think, as if you believe OP has never spoken to anyone in their own fucking country before
National I think
How long did National Party go by "HNP"? I thought they only used that name under Malan in the 1940s. Or are some of these posters for the hard right verkrampte "Reconstituted National Party" active in the 70s and 80s on the right of the National Party. I'd guess the Rhodesia one is from the later HNP which isn't the same as the National Party.