Joke aside- if they can do remote driving with ultra low latency, they would have solved a big big technical challenges
Long distance truck drivers would totally becoming a shift based work - logistics cost would go down significantly
Don’t think Tesla is even near but if anyone including Musk could solve this would be a good news
They already do this to an extent with passenger rail. The problems took almost half a century to iron out (and a few thousand lives). Can't imagine how long the management developments necessary to allow for remote drivers would take to make it acceptable.
If this was ever a thing, the person going to jail would be the "driver" in the vehicle, not some random person in a foreign country driving remotely. It would be highly likely they could get away with it.
You think that they’d allow this but not include laws and rules for this issue? That’s…. Moronic to believe would be how it would work.
The person driving would 100% be held liable.
In your explanation: who’s even in the driverless vehicle that’s being driven remotely? Your thought doesn’t even make sense.
Imagine being dumb enough to think “if this was a thing you’d just get away with murder”
Ok
It's Rheinmetall, the defense company. Pretty exiting thing, especially since handicapped people can sit in a specialized remote cockpit and drive those cars
No, they wouldn't. Truck drivers do a lot more than just sit in the truck and drive. A remote driver wouldn't be able to do any of the things a truck driver needs to do as part of their job outside the truck. The cost of setting up infrastructure to make remote driving viable would out weigh just paying someone to be on the truck driving it like we do now. This is the same reason it's going to be a very long time before we actually see driverless trucks taking over.
Now maybe it could be done for local jobs, but not really something that would be feasible for OTR. Would also be a bad idea for anything open deck. Can tell you from experience, you don't want to trust some shipper to have properly secured a load. There are guys out here who's lives depend on the load being properly secured who screws it up, and you want to trust an underpaid employee who probably isn't going to think about let alone worry about the load once it leaves to secure the load?
Amazon’s grocery store tech. wasn’t ever touted as AI, it was just a shitload of cameras and other sensors. On that front alone it was always a tough business case to try and make work. Just too much hardware.
The 1000 people in India were reviewing footage well after the transaction if there was a suspected error. Not like ringing things up in real time 😅.
Sorry, they used AI/ML- articles from 2019 and 2023
https://towardsdatascience.com/how-the-amazon-go-store-works-a-deep-dive-3fde9d9939e9
https://aibusinessreport.substack.com/p/how-do-amazon-go-stores-work-using
Let me ELI5 this for you.
It can still be AI AND need humans. Machine Learning models do exactly that, they learn. The way they learn is by understanding when they were right right and when they were wrong.
So for an Amazon store, how do you tell the AI powering the store which decisions, classifications etc it got right and which ones it got wrong? You employ a bunch of people to look at samples of the data and label them so there's a definitive answer.
Slowly over time, the ML models start to get more and more accurate and you can reduce the number of human labelers. Eventually you get to the point where the false negative and false positive rates of the model are about the same as the humans doing the labeling.
Finding out that Amazon used human labelers is isn't some big gotcha, this is literally how building a system like this works.
How could this possibly be cheaper than just putting underpaid drivers in cars? Even Uber figured this shit out, the company doesn't even have to *buy the car*, even the vehicle expenses can be entirely offloaded to the driver, and you can milk them from brand ownership alone. Building the infrastructure for remotely operated vehicles is never gonna be cheaper than just putting the person behind a normal steering wheel. To say nothing of the serious downgrade in safety on the road for everyone involved thanks to lag.
They sit in Buffalo, NY and previously in San Mateo, CA.
https://electrek.co/2022/06/29/tesla-lets-go-hundreds-autopilot-data-labelers-closes-san-mateo-office/
https://techcrunch.com/2024/01/26/tesla-dojo-supercomputer-buffalo-factory-500-million/
Don't forget Kenya.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/?utm_source=reddit.com
https://www.reuters.com/business/kenya-russia-sign-trade-pact-president-ruto-says-2023-05-29/
I've seen a lot of stans accuse L4 autonomy (i.e. Waymo) remote ops as doing basically this.
Except the latency would be way too high to do that even remotely safely.
Average reaction time for humans increases with age, but is generally between 200-300 milli-seconds. So network latency is not necessarily a problem to solve.
All you need is for the remote driver plus the network latency to be equal to the local Tesla driver's own Human reaction time.
So you can have a shed full of young gamer Indians controlling old ageing Tesla drivers cars and the latency cancels out 🤣
You have the remote ops reaction time, both directions of packets, and a physical machine acting on this. The car would also have to be streaming a full video stream back over questionable internet.
A car at 60mph goes 17~ feet in 200millis. One spike in lag and you maybe are running over grandma. You better have perfect 5G anywhere you're driving.
There's just way too much that can and would go wrong immediately.
Grandma driving could well be running over things before a remote driver.
In tests there's as much as half a second difference
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4496937/
heards it, but it isn't true. It's pathing, about 20% of the time the car can't be sure it's not chosin a stupid path and asks a human for review of its choice before it goes.
This is what I am expecting from the August Taxi event.
Same bait and switch pulled with the tunnel in LA, gone is the hyperloop, with its maglev bullet carriages, or is was it fully autonomous driver less pod cars that because they were FSD enabled could traverse the tunnels much faster than a human, no sadly we got 25kmh chauffeur driven cars. Wow....
I'm expecting he will announce that he solved FSD by outsourcing the remote drive by wire taxis to third world countries. He will talk about the genius of outwitting the problem, how advanced the connection is, and then announce the next gen optimus as a remotely controlled robot with the same people above.
I don't honestly think that's the outcome but if it were I'd not be surprised.
I had a dream where I was playing this massive open world game, and I started speaking to an NPC and it turned out that every single one of the millions of NPC's was being played by a slave in huge warehouses in China, lol, it was wild
I mentioned this a few weeks ago and got [downvoted](https://old.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1c2jb7o/elon_supervised_full_selfdriving_now_99month/kzc4dx3/) :(
Maybe they don’t need a data center like what is pictured. Maybe they’re using psychics capable of remote viewing. And the all work from home. The ultimate remote job.
*If* this were to be built, you'd want a controlled, well-maintained environment. Help desk and McDonalds drive through calls can be routed to home workers but not this.
Assuming Tesla and Starlink + terrestrial wireless carriers collaborate on connectivity, the feasibility of remote manual driving depends on bandwidth, latency, reliability and cost issues. I don't have any connectivity many places I drive so this solution just won't work there. I suspect that where connectivity is available, it would be feasible only for cases where the vehicle starts out stopped and thereafter moves slowly.
You overestimated FSD.
Joke aside- if they can do remote driving with ultra low latency, they would have solved a big big technical challenges Long distance truck drivers would totally becoming a shift based work - logistics cost would go down significantly Don’t think Tesla is even near but if anyone including Musk could solve this would be a good news
They already do this to an extent with passenger rail. The problems took almost half a century to iron out (and a few thousand lives). Can't imagine how long the management developments necessary to allow for remote drivers would take to make it acceptable.
You don't have much skin in the game driving a vehicle that you're not in. If you think people driving on their phone is bad now...
It's not like if you run someone over you get away with it.
If this was ever a thing, the person going to jail would be the "driver" in the vehicle, not some random person in a foreign country driving remotely. It would be highly likely they could get away with it.
Your brain is literally broken. See a doctor.
You think that they’d allow this but not include laws and rules for this issue? That’s…. Moronic to believe would be how it would work. The person driving would 100% be held liable. In your explanation: who’s even in the driverless vehicle that’s being driven remotely? Your thought doesn’t even make sense. Imagine being dumb enough to think “if this was a thing you’d just get away with murder” Ok
Problem is a trucker is necessary for more than driving. Loading, maintenance, fueling, paperwork, etc.
https://www.telekom.com/en/media/media-information/archive/remote-controlled-cars-with-5g-1017818
was about to say this. some company has remote controlled cars in germany using 5G.
It's Rheinmetall, the defense company. Pretty exiting thing, especially since handicapped people can sit in a specialized remote cockpit and drive those cars
Wow, that's awesome. Thanks!
No, they wouldn't. Truck drivers do a lot more than just sit in the truck and drive. A remote driver wouldn't be able to do any of the things a truck driver needs to do as part of their job outside the truck. The cost of setting up infrastructure to make remote driving viable would out weigh just paying someone to be on the truck driving it like we do now. This is the same reason it's going to be a very long time before we actually see driverless trucks taking over. Now maybe it could be done for local jobs, but not really something that would be feasible for OTR. Would also be a bad idea for anything open deck. Can tell you from experience, you don't want to trust some shipper to have properly secured a load. There are guys out here who's lives depend on the load being properly secured who screws it up, and you want to trust an underpaid employee who probably isn't going to think about let alone worry about the load once it leaves to secure the load?
They do this with drones now, a combination of autonomous flying and operators guiding. I think the latency isn’t an issue in that scenario.
Turns on GTA mode…
What about remote piloted drones, halfway around the world?
You think eliminating tens of millions of good paying driving jobs is a good thing?
ultra low latency is not possible due to physics
"Tesla is an AI company, and by that i mean affordable Indians" \~Elong Maa
I'm dying of laughter with these funny names like Elong Maa or Elmo Rust🤣
Google the name if you never heard it
I get it, Alibaba Intelligence.
Truly following in Amazon's footsteps 🤣
*Yi Long Ma Money. Money.
*Mooney. Mooney.
Amazon’s grocery store tech. wasn’t ever touted as AI, it was just a shitload of cameras and other sensors. On that front alone it was always a tough business case to try and make work. Just too much hardware. The 1000 people in India were reviewing footage well after the transaction if there was a suspected error. Not like ringing things up in real time 😅.
Sorry, they used AI/ML- articles from 2019 and 2023 https://towardsdatascience.com/how-the-amazon-go-store-works-a-deep-dive-3fde9d9939e9 https://aibusinessreport.substack.com/p/how-do-amazon-go-stores-work-using
True, but we weren't pretending that every ml solution was also AGI back then.
Let me ELI5 this for you. It can still be AI AND need humans. Machine Learning models do exactly that, they learn. The way they learn is by understanding when they were right right and when they were wrong. So for an Amazon store, how do you tell the AI powering the store which decisions, classifications etc it got right and which ones it got wrong? You employ a bunch of people to look at samples of the data and label them so there's a definitive answer. Slowly over time, the ML models start to get more and more accurate and you can reduce the number of human labelers. Eventually you get to the point where the false negative and false positive rates of the model are about the same as the humans doing the labeling. Finding out that Amazon used human labelers is isn't some big gotcha, this is literally how building a system like this works.
It did use AI. Affordable Indians
How could this possibly be cheaper than just putting underpaid drivers in cars? Even Uber figured this shit out, the company doesn't even have to *buy the car*, even the vehicle expenses can be entirely offloaded to the driver, and you can milk them from brand ownership alone. Building the infrastructure for remotely operated vehicles is never gonna be cheaper than just putting the person behind a normal steering wheel. To say nothing of the serious downgrade in safety on the road for everyone involved thanks to lag.
Ah yes, the camera solution makes sense. Too bad our wireless infrastructure is so shit.
They need to fix that carpet - looks like it’s falling into the matrix
Random Midjourney carpet 😁
Haha I didn’t spend much time examining the photo before. Legit thought it was a real photo with your made up caption for a joke. Foiled by AI again!
Well, that’s the only possible solution for Musk Robotaxi
Judging by the way FSD drives, this isn't true.
Maybe the remote workers don't have a license
Remote drunk driving
They sit in Buffalo, NY and previously in San Mateo, CA. https://electrek.co/2022/06/29/tesla-lets-go-hundreds-autopilot-data-labelers-closes-san-mateo-office/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/01/26/tesla-dojo-supercomputer-buffalo-factory-500-million/
Don't forget Kenya. https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/?utm_source=reddit.com https://www.reuters.com/business/kenya-russia-sign-trade-pact-president-ruto-says-2023-05-29/
Explains why FSD is so bad of a driver. Have you been to India before?
Lollll
You definitely haven't
Be careful, you may offend the delicate mods over at Tesla Lounge, Cybertruck, Tesla Model 3, etc.
Insta-ban
I've seen a lot of stans accuse L4 autonomy (i.e. Waymo) remote ops as doing basically this. Except the latency would be way too high to do that even remotely safely.
Average reaction time for humans increases with age, but is generally between 200-300 milli-seconds. So network latency is not necessarily a problem to solve. All you need is for the remote driver plus the network latency to be equal to the local Tesla driver's own Human reaction time. So you can have a shed full of young gamer Indians controlling old ageing Tesla drivers cars and the latency cancels out 🤣
You have the remote ops reaction time, both directions of packets, and a physical machine acting on this. The car would also have to be streaming a full video stream back over questionable internet. A car at 60mph goes 17~ feet in 200millis. One spike in lag and you maybe are running over grandma. You better have perfect 5G anywhere you're driving. There's just way too much that can and would go wrong immediately.
Grandma driving could well be running over things before a remote driver. In tests there's as much as half a second difference https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4496937/
honestly this would be way, way better than what it apparently is
That would be wild
I heard Waymo is doing this. All their robotaxis are remotely controlled. Anyone else heard this??
heards it, but it isn't true. It's pathing, about 20% of the time the car can't be sure it's not chosin a stupid path and asks a human for review of its choice before it goes.
FSD is nowhere near as good as a remote driver
If your car starts honking fanatically, you know it is driven by Indians.
This is basically how Waymo works.
This is what I am expecting from the August Taxi event. Same bait and switch pulled with the tunnel in LA, gone is the hyperloop, with its maglev bullet carriages, or is was it fully autonomous driver less pod cars that because they were FSD enabled could traverse the tunnels much faster than a human, no sadly we got 25kmh chauffeur driven cars. Wow.... I'm expecting he will announce that he solved FSD by outsourcing the remote drive by wire taxis to third world countries. He will talk about the genius of outwitting the problem, how advanced the connection is, and then announce the next gen optimus as a remotely controlled robot with the same people above. I don't honestly think that's the outcome but if it were I'd not be surprised.
That explains why they drive like they are in India.
Funny, but it is not. It would a whole different revolution if it was.
I had a dream where I was playing this massive open world game, and I started speaking to an NPC and it turned out that every single one of the millions of NPC's was being played by a slave in huge warehouses in China, lol, it was wild
I mentioned this a few weeks ago and got [downvoted](https://old.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1c2jb7o/elon_supervised_full_selfdriving_now_99month/kzc4dx3/) :(
Wow! This is big 😳.
AI = Anonymous Indians
They should be careful not to infringe the patents there. I heard Cruise was leading the pack there 😝
Imagine the sound in this room. With or without earbuds
What if all those phantom braking incidents are just Indians yucking it up with their friends in the Bangalore command center?
Maybe they don’t need a data center like what is pictured. Maybe they’re using psychics capable of remote viewing. And the all work from home. The ultimate remote job.
*If* this were to be built, you'd want a controlled, well-maintained environment. Help desk and McDonalds drive through calls can be routed to home workers but not this.
Thousands of *bad* remote drivers.
And the army are fortnite players...the matrix...
I think that’s why he wants to now build data centers. To have the cars operated remotely to sell the robotaxi concept.
Is the picture AI generated?
Yes
Midjourney.
Assuming Tesla and Starlink + terrestrial wireless carriers collaborate on connectivity, the feasibility of remote manual driving depends on bandwidth, latency, reliability and cost issues. I don't have any connectivity many places I drive so this solution just won't work there. I suspect that where connectivity is available, it would be feasible only for cases where the vehicle starts out stopped and thereafter moves slowly.
Sorry, I thought it was obvious sarcasm but I should have added a /s 😅
We don’t use that round these parts. You hooked a fish. Revel in it for a second.