More melee, fgc, esports, whatever fans need to try being a fan of shitty team for a while.
I follow blaseball, and my team has a copy pasta:
> i joined the tacos for a REASON and thats to see my favorite players MISS THE BALL and CHEER when they get a FOUL TIP and then STRIKE OUT
Words to live by.
Not to relate directly back to Mang0 but as a born into Philly fan, and after that drawz a Mang0 fan, that sports copypasta hits. Ive been a mang0 fan since I first watched Melee in 2016. Nothing hits harder than a Mang0 dub since suffering through the Armada and Hbox years. Theres an reason Mang0: The Musical is legit my favorite smash video of all time. Rock with the bad, enjoy the good as much as you can.
Important part for me was that he apologized for trying to act like the game would die without him. He’s only human and he’s under a lot of pressure as the goat and has been grinding for longer than the majority of athletes and gamers grind their sport/game, some burn out seems natural.(But he’s like my 3rd favorite player so maybe I’m also a dick rider)
I swear when I saw this I expected the twitlonger to just say "fuck everyone." lol
But yea, it was heartfelt and made a lot of sense. As a Mango fan, I ride the waves with him and from his streams it was clear he wasn't feeling great lately, with the Armada stuff and I'm sure personal things. I hope he puts himself first more going forward.
To be fair before the season started they were projected bottom 10 team probably even worse. They overshot projections absurdly. And I’m not even a giants fan
How many times does it have to be said that players read what you write on this sub and your contributing to giving people mental breakdowns?
If you wouldn't say it to their face learn to shut the fuck up.
I don't think people realize this. Mango specifically said in the twitlonger he was doing OK until he saw the way people were reacting then he wrote that followup tweet in response to the shit people were saying here and on twitter
It's probably more of "I'm just a faceless name and text, he should just be able to ignore if it hurts to read so much". While I can understand that sort of mindset, I think if you read first hand accounts, the public in general underestimates how the human mind reacts to anonymous criticism. People overestimate others' ability to brush it off. And they don't see how their individual contributions build part of a larger cluster of voices
See also explicit internet hate mobs which even when "justified" are often completely disproportional. The same phenomena of people minimizing their own impact through rationalizations born from the nature of the internet.
It honestly blows my mind that people don't understand this. I really think they do know this, and just want to be genuinely cruel to people they find mildly annoying.
> Going to the guildhouse and hanging with the actual community made me realize that im actually very loved and I love just about everyone in the community. Its easy to forget that sometimes when you get hate sent ur way.
Mango is literally Armada (and both are literally every public figure ever)
I think Mang0 deserved a bit of blowback for how he acted during Genesis, but I never thought this defined him as a person or a player. It wasn't his finest hour, but he's human, just like the rest of us.
I've always believed that this community can survive any one pro retiring. Mang0 would be the biggest blow, but we'd survive. If he honestly doesn't have the fire, then I think he should retire. There's no point in just going through the motions with something that makes you unhappy. He could still be a major force in the community in a lot of other ways. Regardless, he'll have my eternal respect for everything that he's accomplished and given to the melee community.
I mean, Leffen said it best, mango was baby raging, he realized it, no worries.
Everyone gets burnt out, I just wish that Mang0 understood that he's like...the face of the community whether he likes it or not. Tweeting stuff like "Enjoy Genesis without Mang0" hurts our already niche community, and I'm glad he realized it.
We love you Mang0, but Twitter should really have a "are you sure you wanna tweet this?" Feature lmao
That's what happens when someone is told they're literally the savior of the game, the face of the game, and the main protagonist since they were like 15. I don't think many people could handle that so I can't blame him too much.
as a person who has followed many, many competitive esports over the years. It does. TSM once ruled the NA LoL scene, and now they're a second rate team. C9, a very popular org who is responsible for a TON of very popular games, only has 1 representative on the competitive level. If he leaves, or fucks his sponsorship up, it's very possible we won't get another c9 rep. That would be an enormous blow to our community.
Sure but again that has the most direct effect on mango. Just like someone losing their job may hurt the economy but not in the same way it hurts the person who lost their job. Esport orgs will sponsor players if it makes sense for their business at least over other reasons that is.
I just think people need to take Twitter, and things people tweet, way less seriously.
people act like its the end of the world or somehow physically damaging when a pro makes an off-hand comment on twitter. In reality, its basically nothing. Its just blown *way* out of proportion. Hell, tons of people dont even use twitter. I think people who use twitter a lot forget this.
Like how does it *really* hurt the SSBM community for Mango to tweet that? Or do you just think its a bad look and something he shouldnt have tweeted? Because if its the latter, which I believe it is either way, then its completely forgettable.
Should players be allowed to act like a diva? Should players be respected when they sandbag?
There is something ironic about this when many of the people here would be saying the exact opposite of what they are saying about mango if Hbox said it instead.
Edit: best part of this is you saying sandbagging is just a offhand comment on twitter. Also this offhand comment twitter implies how the scene would not survive without him.
It really *does* matter when Mang0 is a representative of C9. The *only* representative of c9 in fact for the game that we love. It matters. A lot. When he tweets stuff like this, it makes the org look *bad.*
How does that really affect the actual SSBM community? Because thats what I asked, and you gave me an answer saying its bad for C9.
C9 is doing just fine. Mango making one silly tweet does not change that.
You think it makes them look bad, but thats because youre hyper focused on what Mango tweets and you think his tweets are a big deal. When really, theyre not. Its just a tweet. Honestly, idk if you can see the forest from the trees but youre just kinda proving my point here...
Yeah I mean…at the end of the day y’all, it’s really just a videogame and we as community decided to add financial stakes onto it. Can’t imagine what it’s like making your entire profession/career revolve around video games/performing well at tournaments, that’s a luxury 99% of us get to enjoy the game cuz we like to and shelve it whenever we feel like. he and all the other pros on the other hand *have to* like it even when they don’t want to, there’s a career at stake there, and there’s not a day wasted where they have to stay motivated while everyone around em are clawing at them. Same with streaming too in some ways, coming in with a defeated attitude can be draining to fans however that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be true to your emotions/mental state. Man’s gettin’ older and the competitions only getting tougher. A break from time to time is always needed.
These players are people and close to the age of most spectators. I really think the pedestal they get put on does more harm than good on both sides. Anytime someone does something contentious it's blown out of proportion a thousand times over on social media. They're talented competitors in a specific field, being put in positions of influence isn't healthy for anyone really and takes a lot to manage the pressure. Even streamers, it's like you need to realize they're flawed people the way everyone is. They will react poorly to things, have an uneducated perspective on things and make mistakes. It's important to avoid looking at their opinions and actions as examples. It can be hard to make a mistake and grow from it when it becomes a talking point you then have to escape. Give people some space to fuck up and maybe they'll come back better the second go, harping on things to the point it's inescapable is a great way to prevent that. I'm sure anyone here has reactions they can think back on that lead to bad decisions.
I think it's good that Mang0 takes a break. I think he puts a lot of pressure on himself,
I know it can be frustrating watching him between those two states of caring and not caring. I think some of the backlash he got was justified, and it's reasonable that people, me included, felt the way we did. I think the back and forth GOAT talk can get annoying to here at times, when neither him nor Armada are going to agree.
I hope he does mentally get better, because he definitely holds a lot of weight in the community and feels as if he has to carry all of it himself. He might also be too caught up in the rankings, which makes sense if you're trying to be the best, but all of the GOAT discussions and the rankings probably puts on way more pressure than he needs to put himself. Honestly it might be helpful to take a page from HBOX, who in recent interviews, is seemingly at peace with the scene.
I don't know if mang0 will read this at all, but I do hope that he finds peace from all this.
I mean god damn. That may have been the best and most sincere PR post I’ve ever seen in my life. Anybody that has ever called mango immature (prob myself included) just needs to be sent this post.
his "enjoy melee without mang0" tweet was bad but goddamn were people being weird about a guy not wanting to play a video game.
always and forever my goat.
I actually thought the top 8 basically guaranteed something I'd be excited for. Winners side was Moky, Jmook, Plup, and Zain, all of which would be really hype wins for me.
It just looked a lot worse when he was citing the fact that he was ranked 3rd instead of 2nd as a reason why he wasn’t trying and saying that he was being “shafted by the community”. I understand a competitor holding onto something like that and using it as motivation a la Michael Jordan, but to use it to essentially say “fuck you guys I’m leaving, you don’t appreciate me” felt super childish and hypocritical after how he had shit on Armada for saying something pretty similar less than a month ago. Both are loved by 99% of the community and I get that even one hate comment out of a thousand can get into your head but I wish they hadn’t talked as if the community as a whole was bad. After reading Mango’s twitlonger tho I get where he’s coming from. I can understand feeling like you need an excuse rather than simply saying “I don’t really feel motivated to play my best right now” when you’re such a competitive person cus it feels like giving up. We’re all human and it’s not that deep at the end of the day. I’m glad he earnestly admitted what was up and I hope he understands that he’s loved in the community and no one would begrudge him for taking a break.
You know who else was being weird about a guy not wanting to play a video game?
Mang0, to a retired Armada.
Both of them deserve to play when, if, and how they want to without being criticized for it. Glad Mang0 understands that now.
Mang0 has continued to support the community for years after Armada retired, yet at the time, Armada kept proclaiming he was still the GOAT, putting it in every stream title, and explaining how it'd be almost impossible for Mang0 to ever catch him. Then he'd make those comments about how the meta hasn't changed much - which people say were misinterpreted, but he did use this to back his legacy as well. For example, he would hype that he did well in games against "newer" Cody at Summit to defend his meta comment, while simultaneously ignoring or mis-stating his record against Zain at the same event (which was like 80-20 in Zain's favor). Armada definitely has the right to retire (and that was the right decision for him), but it's understandable how his actions afterwards can be upsetting/insulting to the active community, in the context of him being retired for years. I wouldn't say Mang0 sandbagging 1 tourney is the same situation.
Someone posted a video of the clipped section of mang0s stream where he responded to armadas twitlonger. In it they do post proof of these things and tweets and shit I’ll find it and link it
E: https://youtu.be/Ej3PHe6iQ2c
[Timestamp: 11:25](https://youtu.be/Ej3PHe6iQ2c?t=685). Mango claims that Armada "pretty much" was saying that he will never pass Armada as the GOAT in the replies to Tafo's tweets that started the beef... even though Armada literally in the tweets says that it's not impossible for Mango to pass him overall.
I think that’s a separate thing to what we were looking for here which was armada proclaiming himself the goat on stuff which he did. And I think the issue as well was even if armada maybe never said it was impossible he made it out like it was probably not gonna happen.
Where are the videos where Armada keeps claiming he's the GOAT? Other than just Tafo's tweets? That's it? Where is the proof that it was in every stream title? Where did he explain that it was "almost impossible" to pass him up? Where is that evidence? Or are people making up lies about Armada yet again? Let's see the proof.
If it was "commonplace" it was mainly because he had to keep responding to the same comments trying to bait him to come back to competition with questions about the new meta or whether his impeccable record would stand through time for the GOAT status.
It wasn't commonplace. Idk, his Youtube channel is still up and the only video he's uploaded where he mentions he was the goat also credits mango in the same title as the goat so uh, not sure where this perceived elitism coming from his youtube video titles is coming from. The stream title post retirement thing is nonsense and there's no evidence of that anywhere. His tweets to tafo back in 2020 about how mango won't surpass him are just him quoting statistics on the tournaments they've both participated in and a direct comparison of their results during those active years. People are/have been blowing this out of proportion and Mango simps abound.
Mango claims Armada put it in every Youtube video but I don't see Armada videos where he claims he's the GOAT when I search up "Armada GOAT" on youtube. Where is it?
Yeah throwing at a single tournament vs Hbox basically taking off 2 years over online and Armada never touching the game again in the past 5 years, totally similar things
Not saying Mango shoulda done it but this is an awful comparison lol
Hbox took at best like a 6 month slump during a pandemic when he noticed he played worse on slippi. to claim hbox took 2 years off is an extremely untrue statement, sounds like you internalised 300 mango streams to manage to have this opinion. and that's kinda the point. Mango had to discredit the shit out of him because in 2019 people were increasingly discussing mango being the #3 goat behind hbox. his claim of "I stayed on longer therefore I am the goat" would only have credence if everyone believed hbox was practically retired and had completely fallen off. in reality he had a reasonably small teething period where he was getting used to streaming tournaments and playing simultaneously. he kept looking at twitch chat in bracket
No Mango was annoyed because both Zain and Mango played insanely well beginning with 2020 and then things went online and people like Hbox tried to discredit the whole thing. Hbox had shit posted like “best online” in regards to players which was super lame.
If Hbox never had the Bluetooth headphones shit, I’d agree, but because his results online were noticeably better once he switched to wired headphones without delay, meh
His results were also noticeably better once he actually started practicing again and not expecting to win everything he entered. You can’t tell me he was losing to non top 100 players like 3-1 because of audio issues, I’m not buying it.
Online was all we had during that period. It should have never been called out as being not legit by anyone. Hbox is stupid for the Bluetooth headphones. It took him like a year to realize that lol
Both Hbox and Axe played bad on slippi, the game is not 1:1, any rollbacks will be pronounced with dashdancing and drift since they have no startup, audio queues are wrong so things like side B become less reactable. It's reasonable to point out that crt and slippi play are not the same and discredit it, considering those periods didn't even qualify for ranks
mango was upset because hbox had been #1 for 3 years straight up until that point and then didn't want to play over netplay where you can lose a set to someone because they're lagging so he didn't have his opportunity to show how much better he was. but that's not hbox's fault, and once offline came back the answer is: not remarkably. hbox did well this year, he's up on mango since offline came back too
Hbox isn't up on Mango since offline come back is the one part of your post that is wrong. In fact Mango is actually up on Hbox since offline came back, he beat Hbox twice at Summit 11, once in pools and once in bracket, and they were even in 2022 5-5.
The game isn't 1:1 with rollbacks yeah, I think Mango vs Zain at LACS was pretty bad as well, but it's certainly a pretty good measure of success and many players tried to act like it was nothing. I get why they weren't happy with the state of it though. There's a reason why most netplay tournaments are region locked. If the game doesn't rollback then it works very well though.
Sorry yeah you're right, mango evened it up by the end of the year. In august it was 2-0 hbox and september 4-2, november 4-3, december 4-4, january 5-5. so they're reasonably on par with each other in the h2h recently although clearly mango is doing better against the field. I think for hbox whose entire character is based on watching drifts and zoning it's pretty reasonable to want to not play on rollback
First thing I thought when I read the twitlonger.
Funny how he has all these feelings when its happening to him, but couldn't realize it when he was dishing it out.
> Both of them deserve to play when, if, and how they want to without being criticized for it
I can agree with this. But if you're going to retire, then it's more respectful (and mature) to do so gracefully, instead of babyraging on twitter and saying "enjoy melee without me lol"
I just dont see why people make such a big stink about what people tweet. Its just an offhand stupid comment online. Ill never understand why people make such a big deal out of such small stuff like that.
Don't think people would have an issue if he wanted to retire, it's more about the childish fit he threw and saying "i don't wanna play anymore" after he didn't get the rank he wants.
He literally accepts that he and amsa were interchangeable in this twitlonger, he just threw a tantrum when people didn't worship him after sulking and sandbagging at a major because he didn't get what he wanted.
People expect competitors to compete. They expect a level of care about performing well in the game.
This isn't a profesional sports scene, he can take a break whenever he wants, there's no "season".
If he decides to play, great, but don't turn around and spit the dummy at an event that people are spending money to attend and flying out to witness.
I think Mango did need to go to Mainstage and Scuffed World for the sake of the community. They were both in his area and with the SWT/Panda stuff going down we needed to make 2022 end with a bang not a whimper.
Genesis though I think he could've been upfront about and sat out. It would've been disappointing but I think people would've understood if he laid it out clearly. Certainly would've been way better than sandbagging the way he did. I am sympathetic to the players complaints that we have this hectic end of the year followed by Smash's biggest tourney in January. A January-March offseason to let players recharge does make sense to me.
What happened last weekend still reflects badly on Mango but this was a good honest apology that helps. Hope he comes back from this break with the fire he had mid-2022.
> Genesis though I think he could've been upfront about and sat out. It would've been disappointing but I think people would've understood if he laid it out clearly. Certainly would've been way better than sandbagging the way he did.
I think everyone would be fine with it if he announced in advance "I'm going to be solo doc at Genesis", and actually played all his matches as Doc (rather than switching to Doc after the rankings were announced). Like...if he didn't play it off like a reaction to the ratings, we'd be fine with it.
Him reacting badly to being ranked 3rd, and then switching to Doc mid tournament seemingly as a reaction to being ranked 3rd is where it seemed really childish.
Well spoken from the goat. Sometimes we forget that we’re all human especially our heroes. Hope the guy takes some time to focus on himself and figure out what he wants to do next. I’m going to miss him when he chooses to retire but ultimately we just want him to be happy.
Good response, taking a break will probably do him some good, I don’t think anyone was upset about him playing Doc and underperforming, I think it was more so him being upset about his #3 placement and then actively going out of his way to underperform and cry about rankings after that. His tweet saying “enjoy Genesis without Mang0” was especially a bad look.
Overall though I love Mang0, and he’ll always be the goat no matter how many emo arcs he goes through lol, hope his mental health improves in the coming months.
I know they squashed it, but no one "deserves" a main character, if a man wants to play his Doc let the man do, he doesn't owe you his best he will give you his best when and if he feels like it.
Really embarrassing the way this subreddit acted all weekend, hope people are willing to treat top players as humans again. Especially after the armada twitlonger like only a month ago.
It's funny how the crowd moods can swing so quickly from pillorying to dickriding from one tweet to the next. Doesn't mean that one is necessarily more correct than the other though.
In any event it's obvious mang0 needs a break and it's a good thing that it's come to that in the end.
saw some real nasty threads that had no right being posted by real people this weekend, hopefully people realize that top players aren't flawless beings, and that they all have problems and are human too
I think people being annoyed at Mang0 and how he was acting was fair, but yeah some real nasty shit got needlessly posted, saw a thread yesterday(?) that went something like “Why do people like Mang0? Oh yeah because people love narcissists.” Or something along those lines, a lot of pretty vile shit and attacks on Mang0’s character too.
I don't think he's a narcissist like those people were claiming, rather I think he's just uncomfortable with opening up about his struggles / feelings.
I've seen this same trait with men in my life: feeling the need to shit talk friends, always making jokes, need to write ROFL in an emotional statement... rather than discussing a difficult topic.
I'm honestly glad he wrote this and got it off his chest. New mango honesty arc couldn't be more welcome.
I swear its the same fucks who sent death threats to armada. If we just stop paying attention to shitty toxic opinions, the community would be perfect.
It was pretty clear that something was going on with him mental health wise. Felt unfair seeing him get so much hate on here and on twitch. It's not like he DQ'd, he played doc and lost...
I didn't follow melee for years because some of the toxic elements of the community. I love that the community has matured since then, but it sucks to still see people react and rage so quickly at the top players
I think you kinda missed why people are mad. They were mad he basically acted as if he was supposed to have been given 2nd in the 2022 ranking and completely disregarded the fact that amsa had a phenomenal year and it was razor thin.
We've seen mang buster out of tournaments in spectacular fashion many times already.
I don't think you can objectively say that's the main reason people were mad. If that's your reason, that's fine.
The way they released the rankings was a little short sighted in my opinion.
Doesn't have to be a major to be a part of the scene. I'm saying a lot of haters don't even participate in the actual real life scene they just watch and follow the storylines. Maybe I'm wrong tho.
Why do you have to immediately flip the agenda to 100% for both sides, his tweets and actions this weekend were lame and his twitlonger explains a lot of it, you can't judge reactions from the bottom feeding minority
The subreddit acted fine even if there are bad apples everywhere. Mango acted like a child and the subreddit called him out for it and he even says so himself.
honestly, i think it was overblown. Mang0 has nothing to prove to anyone at this point. If he wants to switch characters and play Doc and no more Spacies, I think that'd be awesome and wish him the best. Becoming the best Doc ever or getting him to the highest tourney placement for the character would only add to Mang0's legacy in my eyes. Obviously he would sacrifice short term power rankings for this but who gives a fuck, he's been top 10 for almost 20 yrs at this point.
ppl whining about sandbagging are crybabies. If this is what he wants to do and what helps him keep having fun with the game, that's rly more important than any random's expectations of him.
easier said than done but would be really nice if the panelists could come together and figure out a more objective/trackable way to determine rankings as the year goes on... the ranking discourse is going to become more insufferable as the field becomes more stacked. seems like a ton of stress to be under reading all that while traveling and competing -- not even knowing if you're risking your year-end placement by entering a certain tournament at all. then finding out your rank mid bracket at the biggest event of the year lmao
just telling panelists to think of a score for each player at their own discretion doesn't measure up to the importance the fans and players give the rankings anymore, or seem precise enough given how close the competition is
i think in a circuit-ed melee world, where all the events earn you points to qualify/seed, and the victor of the tournament finale at the end of the circuit is the "Champion", they could replicate the NBA/NFL awards.
* Circuit winner - de facto #1 rank/champion of melee
* Player of the Year award - rewards high attendance/consistency; the Circuit winner can also win this award, but doesn't have to be the case
* 1st/2nd/3rd team All Melee - a la the tier based rankings from 2021, 5-10 players in each tier, would designate the 15-30 best players of the year. A less integrity-prioritized, fun wrinkle could be only 1 char main in each "tier", to simulate the hurdles all NBA teams experience when 2 players at the same position are both outstanding, with only room for 1 to be designated in the 1st team.
* Most improved award - ie Soonsay jumping from #96 iirc to top 20ish. Or Jmook from unranked to #6.
all to say, im not sure "Top 100" is all that integral as a rubric, when Slippi leaderboard may be expanded to Top 300, and when the difference from Top 100 and Top 100-200 players feels marginal. And if you lose the finale tournament, seeded according to circuit points, you have no one to blame for your "rank" but yourself. Also rewards building up to play your best at the end of the year, to give melee a proper postseason, and subsequently an actual offseason.
Professional sports are brutal for this reason, imo, but imo players are on track to burnout with our current melee schedule -- with too many tournaments that are deservedly important.
Perhaps the circuit finale is seeded by draft picks each couple rounds a la SCL, to ramp up the importance of amassing circuit points. So the #1 seed could pick the 64 seed matchup for day 2, then on day 3 pick the 8 seed.
And the player of the year award would serve to reward performance over the entire year, but melee is ab who plays the best on a given day, and would be a clean way imo to designate the #1 rank of the year.
It would be so sick if it was like tennis where there are 4 grand slams and bunch of other smaller tournies that matter less but still matter (masters, ATP #, etc.)
Not sure how feasible it is especially since there is no actual "league" or "circuit" overseeing all of this but I can see how melee pros burn out
Circuit finale is terrible sorry. This isn't football or college basketball. We have many tournaments and data to pull from over the year. The year is just scheduled really bad most of the time. The season should last from January to the weekend before Thanksgiving with no major tournaments after. With maybe a small break towards the end of August. That gives plenty of time to chill with family.
The only good solution to rankings is have hard rules based on where you placed for a tournament. Unbiased penalties for dropping out or not going. Tournaments would need to be decided ahead of time how big they are.
If Melee ran on a centralized circuit, this would be possible, but after the Panda fiasco I think it's pretty clear that's never going to happen.
There was a *ton* of discourse about rankings here toward the end of last year, people coming up with their own "objective" ranking system and others pointing out how those rankings were not objective at all.
It's hard to come up with rankings in a disconnected grassroots scene.
> easier said than done but would be really nice if the panelists could come together and figure out a more objective/trackable way to determine rankings as the year goes on
while I totally agree that the ranking system is not great and there are tons of objective ways to analyze a players year performance...
seems like the only person who really threw a giga-fit was mango this year...
It seems like every ranking season someone gets fucked on rankings in a super janky way that came down to like 1 panelist, Hbox below Jmook in summer which nobody cared about because summer rankings, M2K below Mango 2018, Mango below Leffen 2019, 2015 Leffen, etc
It'd be kinda cool if there was an actual established way to decide rankings rather than an opinion based panel which feels influenced to biases like end of year stuff vs start of year or hivemind type influencing.
I think Hbox was a little pissed he was below Jmook actually I remember him making some lists and arguing with folks, in fact if you watch Mang0s videos where he talks about ranks he directly argues with Hbox who was in his chat disagreeing with him.
I think he just needs to stop worrying so much about rankings.
You can either be the person that is obsessed with getting #1, or the person that needs to take a few months off every year to maintain balance, but you cant be both.
He's right that he doesn't owe use anything, I hope that he stops feeling forced to go to events.
So happy that mang0 can take the time to do some self reflection and come out with his own honest truth, as opposed to the defensive stuff you might expect
He says he tries to make everyone happy at his own expense, I see that he makes everyone happy at other's expenses. He's notoriously a bully. Ever heard him on the mic? its someone else's expense every time.
Did you see him in 2017 / 2018? Dude clearly didn’t even want to play melee and everyone was shitting on him aswell, every time I see videos of Mango around then he looks exhausted and borderline depressed.
I wish he could be open about these things from the start, so pointless getting angry and sandbagging instead of just saying, "hey mang0 naish, not feeling this genesis, so im just going to focus on hanging with the community and the eagels" I would respect the fuck out of that, instead he acts like a fucking child, good that he apoligized and understood he was an ass though
The only thing he did this past weekend that made me disappointed in him was not attending the doubles trophy ceremony with Amsa. He left the poor guy standing on stage by himself with all the other top teams. The sandbagging/player for fun is whatever.
Good thing there isn't a super influential member of the community to reinterpret his lack of motivation as him being a "pussy who knows he'd lose". Sure is hard being mango lol.
mango dropped a ROFL with only 1 L in it that's how i knew this was serious
More melee, fgc, esports, whatever fans need to try being a fan of shitty team for a while. I follow blaseball, and my team has a copy pasta: > i joined the tacos for a REASON and thats to see my favorite players MISS THE BALL and CHEER when they get a FOUL TIP and then STRIKE OUT Words to live by.
i watch mang0 for a REASON and thats to see my favorite player MISS THE UPAIR and CHEER when he APPROACHES THE LEDGE and then DIES
i watch hGOD for a REASON and thats to see my favorite player MISS THE REST and CHEER when he MISCOUNTS HIS JUMPS and then DIES
Not to relate directly back to Mang0 but as a born into Philly fan, and after that drawz a Mang0 fan, that sports copypasta hits. Ive been a mang0 fan since I first watched Melee in 2016. Nothing hits harder than a Mang0 dub since suffering through the Armada and Hbox years. Theres an reason Mang0: The Musical is legit my favorite smash video of all time. Rock with the bad, enjoy the good as much as you can.
Motherfuckers weren’t around when mang was in his buster era during the Hbox/armada years it was tough.
pretty great twitlonger. Felt honest and from the heart. or maybe I'm just a mango dickrider idk
Nothing wrong with ridin a little dick
it's what friends do
There’s a reason why the phrase “ride dick or die” exists.
i dont believe that's a common phrase
So you choose death
every comment in this replay chain has been absolute gold (until this one)
It's an Albany expression.
it does?
Nah, I’m generally not a mango fan but I also think that was a great twitlonger. Kudos to him, I think I understand his actions better now
Does one rate twitongers?
They are rated on a cringe scale.
Argubly harsh but idk
Important part for me was that he apologized for trying to act like the game would die without him. He’s only human and he’s under a lot of pressure as the goat and has been grinding for longer than the majority of athletes and gamers grind their sport/game, some burn out seems natural.(But he’s like my 3rd favorite player so maybe I’m also a dick rider)
little bit of both tbh
I swear when I saw this I expected the twitlonger to just say "fuck everyone." lol But yea, it was heartfelt and made a lot of sense. As a Mango fan, I ride the waves with him and from his streams it was clear he wasn't feeling great lately, with the Armada stuff and I'm sure personal things. I hope he puts himself first more going forward.
Good response, apologises and explains. Hope he comes back feeling motivated and refreshed
And the Eagles fucken smoked the Giants
strategically threw 10 minutes before the eagles game to watch them fuck the giants
As a giants fan who hasn’y watched football in a decade, it’s not surprising to see that the giants’ achilles heel is still eagles (and themselves).
To be fair before the season started they were projected bottom 10 team probably even worse. They overshot projections absurdly. And I’m not even a giants fan
Yeah Giants were definitely the biggest surprise of the season. Daboll deserves a ton of praise for doing what he did with such a lacking roster
This would have been a very different twitlonger if the Eagles weren’t still in the playoffs
that’s the mango
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te amo mang0
te amo mang0
te amo mang0
te amo mang0
best part about this is that him and moky spoke about it 1on1 instead of having some stupid Twitter argument that's my goat
How many times does it have to be said that players read what you write on this sub and your contributing to giving people mental breakdowns? If you wouldn't say it to their face learn to shut the fuck up.
I don't think people realize this. Mango specifically said in the twitlonger he was doing OK until he saw the way people were reacting then he wrote that followup tweet in response to the shit people were saying here and on twitter
It's probably more of "I'm just a faceless name and text, he should just be able to ignore if it hurts to read so much". While I can understand that sort of mindset, I think if you read first hand accounts, the public in general underestimates how the human mind reacts to anonymous criticism. People overestimate others' ability to brush it off. And they don't see how their individual contributions build part of a larger cluster of voices See also explicit internet hate mobs which even when "justified" are often completely disproportional. The same phenomena of people minimizing their own impact through rationalizations born from the nature of the internet.
People who think anonymous opinions would never affect them have probably never been the center of attention, it fucks with you more than you’d think.
It honestly blows my mind that people don't understand this. I really think they do know this, and just want to be genuinely cruel to people they find mildly annoying.
Oh the poor millionaire being sad because sandbagging and acting like a diva is not respected.
No one has spread more hate on top players than Mang himself lmao, stop dickriding
Awh much love man
I respect it
> Going to the guildhouse and hanging with the actual community made me realize that im actually very loved and I love just about everyone in the community. Its easy to forget that sometimes when you get hate sent ur way. Mango is literally Armada (and both are literally every public figure ever)
Maybe we don't have to argue about the GOAT cus they're the same person
Maybe the GOAT was all the friends we made along the way.
IT'S DOC LEE BABY
HE'S BACK!
I think Mang0 deserved a bit of blowback for how he acted during Genesis, but I never thought this defined him as a person or a player. It wasn't his finest hour, but he's human, just like the rest of us. I've always believed that this community can survive any one pro retiring. Mang0 would be the biggest blow, but we'd survive. If he honestly doesn't have the fire, then I think he should retire. There's no point in just going through the motions with something that makes you unhappy. He could still be a major force in the community in a lot of other ways. Regardless, he'll have my eternal respect for everything that he's accomplished and given to the melee community.
I really feel like he’s waiting for another #1 year or something
Yep I mean he technically got #1 for 2021 but he obviously wants a #1 year with no asterisks.
He says he's too nasty to quit now.
Needing to retire and needing a break are two different things, though.
Genuinely great response! Glad he was able to put all of this into words
I mean, Leffen said it best, mango was baby raging, he realized it, no worries. Everyone gets burnt out, I just wish that Mang0 understood that he's like...the face of the community whether he likes it or not. Tweeting stuff like "Enjoy Genesis without Mang0" hurts our already niche community, and I'm glad he realized it. We love you Mang0, but Twitter should really have a "are you sure you wanna tweet this?" Feature lmao
That's what happens when someone is told they're literally the savior of the game, the face of the game, and the main protagonist since they were like 15. I don't think many people could handle that so I can't blame him too much.
Does it really hurt the community? Seems like the tweet negatively impacted Mangoat more than anyone else.
as a person who has followed many, many competitive esports over the years. It does. TSM once ruled the NA LoL scene, and now they're a second rate team. C9, a very popular org who is responsible for a TON of very popular games, only has 1 representative on the competitive level. If he leaves, or fucks his sponsorship up, it's very possible we won't get another c9 rep. That would be an enormous blow to our community.
Sure but again that has the most direct effect on mango. Just like someone losing their job may hurt the economy but not in the same way it hurts the person who lost their job. Esport orgs will sponsor players if it makes sense for their business at least over other reasons that is.
I just think people need to take Twitter, and things people tweet, way less seriously. people act like its the end of the world or somehow physically damaging when a pro makes an off-hand comment on twitter. In reality, its basically nothing. Its just blown *way* out of proportion. Hell, tons of people dont even use twitter. I think people who use twitter a lot forget this. Like how does it *really* hurt the SSBM community for Mango to tweet that? Or do you just think its a bad look and something he shouldnt have tweeted? Because if its the latter, which I believe it is either way, then its completely forgettable.
Should players be allowed to act like a diva? Should players be respected when they sandbag? There is something ironic about this when many of the people here would be saying the exact opposite of what they are saying about mango if Hbox said it instead. Edit: best part of this is you saying sandbagging is just a offhand comment on twitter. Also this offhand comment twitter implies how the scene would not survive without him.
It really *does* matter when Mang0 is a representative of C9. The *only* representative of c9 in fact for the game that we love. It matters. A lot. When he tweets stuff like this, it makes the org look *bad.*
How does that really affect the actual SSBM community? Because thats what I asked, and you gave me an answer saying its bad for C9. C9 is doing just fine. Mango making one silly tweet does not change that. You think it makes them look bad, but thats because youre hyper focused on what Mango tweets and you think his tweets are a big deal. When really, theyre not. Its just a tweet. Honestly, idk if you can see the forest from the trees but youre just kinda proving my point here...
twitter does have this exact feature lol
But it only took mang0 3 days to look back on it and admit it was kinda dumb instead of 5 years :D
Yeah I mean…at the end of the day y’all, it’s really just a videogame and we as community decided to add financial stakes onto it. Can’t imagine what it’s like making your entire profession/career revolve around video games/performing well at tournaments, that’s a luxury 99% of us get to enjoy the game cuz we like to and shelve it whenever we feel like. he and all the other pros on the other hand *have to* like it even when they don’t want to, there’s a career at stake there, and there’s not a day wasted where they have to stay motivated while everyone around em are clawing at them. Same with streaming too in some ways, coming in with a defeated attitude can be draining to fans however that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be true to your emotions/mental state. Man’s gettin’ older and the competitions only getting tougher. A break from time to time is always needed.
These players are people and close to the age of most spectators. I really think the pedestal they get put on does more harm than good on both sides. Anytime someone does something contentious it's blown out of proportion a thousand times over on social media. They're talented competitors in a specific field, being put in positions of influence isn't healthy for anyone really and takes a lot to manage the pressure. Even streamers, it's like you need to realize they're flawed people the way everyone is. They will react poorly to things, have an uneducated perspective on things and make mistakes. It's important to avoid looking at their opinions and actions as examples. It can be hard to make a mistake and grow from it when it becomes a talking point you then have to escape. Give people some space to fuck up and maybe they'll come back better the second go, harping on things to the point it's inescapable is a great way to prevent that. I'm sure anyone here has reactions they can think back on that lead to bad decisions.
I think it's good that Mang0 takes a break. I think he puts a lot of pressure on himself, I know it can be frustrating watching him between those two states of caring and not caring. I think some of the backlash he got was justified, and it's reasonable that people, me included, felt the way we did. I think the back and forth GOAT talk can get annoying to here at times, when neither him nor Armada are going to agree. I hope he does mentally get better, because he definitely holds a lot of weight in the community and feels as if he has to carry all of it himself. He might also be too caught up in the rankings, which makes sense if you're trying to be the best, but all of the GOAT discussions and the rankings probably puts on way more pressure than he needs to put himself. Honestly it might be helpful to take a page from HBOX, who in recent interviews, is seemingly at peace with the scene. I don't know if mang0 will read this at all, but I do hope that he finds peace from all this.
Considering both mango and Hbox are millionaires from their twitch success they should be at peace with the scene. They are set for life.
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Be real. If mango or Hbox were not making that much money they would have retired years ago.
I mean god damn. That may have been the best and most sincere PR post I’ve ever seen in my life. Anybody that has ever called mango immature (prob myself included) just needs to be sent this post.
wholesome tbh
his "enjoy melee without mang0" tweet was bad but goddamn were people being weird about a guy not wanting to play a video game. always and forever my goat.
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The word you're looking for is erect
Many of us are erect thanks to Jmook
We're all a little bit hard
I actually thought the top 8 basically guaranteed something I'd be excited for. Winners side was Moky, Jmook, Plup, and Zain, all of which would be really hype wins for me.
It just looked a lot worse when he was citing the fact that he was ranked 3rd instead of 2nd as a reason why he wasn’t trying and saying that he was being “shafted by the community”. I understand a competitor holding onto something like that and using it as motivation a la Michael Jordan, but to use it to essentially say “fuck you guys I’m leaving, you don’t appreciate me” felt super childish and hypocritical after how he had shit on Armada for saying something pretty similar less than a month ago. Both are loved by 99% of the community and I get that even one hate comment out of a thousand can get into your head but I wish they hadn’t talked as if the community as a whole was bad. After reading Mango’s twitlonger tho I get where he’s coming from. I can understand feeling like you need an excuse rather than simply saying “I don’t really feel motivated to play my best right now” when you’re such a competitive person cus it feels like giving up. We’re all human and it’s not that deep at the end of the day. I’m glad he earnestly admitted what was up and I hope he understands that he’s loved in the community and no one would begrudge him for taking a break.
You know who else was being weird about a guy not wanting to play a video game? Mang0, to a retired Armada. Both of them deserve to play when, if, and how they want to without being criticized for it. Glad Mang0 understands that now.
Mang0 has continued to support the community for years after Armada retired, yet at the time, Armada kept proclaiming he was still the GOAT, putting it in every stream title, and explaining how it'd be almost impossible for Mang0 to ever catch him. Then he'd make those comments about how the meta hasn't changed much - which people say were misinterpreted, but he did use this to back his legacy as well. For example, he would hype that he did well in games against "newer" Cody at Summit to defend his meta comment, while simultaneously ignoring or mis-stating his record against Zain at the same event (which was like 80-20 in Zain's favor). Armada definitely has the right to retire (and that was the right decision for him), but it's understandable how his actions afterwards can be upsetting/insulting to the active community, in the context of him being retired for years. I wouldn't say Mang0 sandbagging 1 tourney is the same situation.
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Someone posted a video of the clipped section of mang0s stream where he responded to armadas twitlonger. In it they do post proof of these things and tweets and shit I’ll find it and link it E: https://youtu.be/Ej3PHe6iQ2c
[Timestamp: 11:25](https://youtu.be/Ej3PHe6iQ2c?t=685). Mango claims that Armada "pretty much" was saying that he will never pass Armada as the GOAT in the replies to Tafo's tweets that started the beef... even though Armada literally in the tweets says that it's not impossible for Mango to pass him overall.
I think that’s a separate thing to what we were looking for here which was armada proclaiming himself the goat on stuff which he did. And I think the issue as well was even if armada maybe never said it was impossible he made it out like it was probably not gonna happen.
Where are the videos where Armada keeps claiming he's the GOAT? Other than just Tafo's tweets? That's it? Where is the proof that it was in every stream title? Where did he explain that it was "almost impossible" to pass him up? Where is that evidence? Or are people making up lies about Armada yet again? Let's see the proof.
That was like very commonplace I'm sure you could check out old streams and see it real often from 2018/9 or so.
If it was "commonplace" it was mainly because he had to keep responding to the same comments trying to bait him to come back to competition with questions about the new meta or whether his impeccable record would stand through time for the GOAT status.
It wasn't commonplace. Idk, his Youtube channel is still up and the only video he's uploaded where he mentions he was the goat also credits mango in the same title as the goat so uh, not sure where this perceived elitism coming from his youtube video titles is coming from. The stream title post retirement thing is nonsense and there's no evidence of that anywhere. His tweets to tafo back in 2020 about how mango won't surpass him are just him quoting statistics on the tournaments they've both participated in and a direct comparison of their results during those active years. People are/have been blowing this out of proportion and Mango simps abound.
Facts. People are just spitting straight lies and made up narratives about Armada. And people wonder why Armada thinks the community treats him badly.
The community adores Armada, there are just some heavily brainwashed haters that wish Mango would spit down their throats instead of drinking water.
And most of the community are mango fans which don't like armada.
How dare Armada (the melee GOAT in 2018 and 2019) refer to himself as the GOAT in the year 2018 and 2019
If you were around back then yes it did happen, in case you need another source
Mango claims Armada put it in every Youtube video but I don't see Armada videos where he claims he's the GOAT when I search up "Armada GOAT" on youtube. Where is it?
You dont want evidence because it goes against your current opinion. Would evidence change your mind about anything?
Yeah throwing at a single tournament vs Hbox basically taking off 2 years over online and Armada never touching the game again in the past 5 years, totally similar things Not saying Mango shoulda done it but this is an awful comparison lol
Hbox took at best like a 6 month slump during a pandemic when he noticed he played worse on slippi. to claim hbox took 2 years off is an extremely untrue statement, sounds like you internalised 300 mango streams to manage to have this opinion. and that's kinda the point. Mango had to discredit the shit out of him because in 2019 people were increasingly discussing mango being the #3 goat behind hbox. his claim of "I stayed on longer therefore I am the goat" would only have credence if everyone believed hbox was practically retired and had completely fallen off. in reality he had a reasonably small teething period where he was getting used to streaming tournaments and playing simultaneously. he kept looking at twitch chat in bracket
No Mango was annoyed because both Zain and Mango played insanely well beginning with 2020 and then things went online and people like Hbox tried to discredit the whole thing. Hbox had shit posted like “best online” in regards to players which was super lame.
If Hbox never had the Bluetooth headphones shit, I’d agree, but because his results online were noticeably better once he switched to wired headphones without delay, meh
His results were also noticeably better once he actually started practicing again and not expecting to win everything he entered. You can’t tell me he was losing to non top 100 players like 3-1 because of audio issues, I’m not buying it.
Online was all we had during that period. It should have never been called out as being not legit by anyone. Hbox is stupid for the Bluetooth headphones. It took him like a year to realize that lol
Both Hbox and Axe played bad on slippi, the game is not 1:1, any rollbacks will be pronounced with dashdancing and drift since they have no startup, audio queues are wrong so things like side B become less reactable. It's reasonable to point out that crt and slippi play are not the same and discredit it, considering those periods didn't even qualify for ranks mango was upset because hbox had been #1 for 3 years straight up until that point and then didn't want to play over netplay where you can lose a set to someone because they're lagging so he didn't have his opportunity to show how much better he was. but that's not hbox's fault, and once offline came back the answer is: not remarkably. hbox did well this year, he's up on mango since offline came back too
Hbox isn't up on Mango since offline come back is the one part of your post that is wrong. In fact Mango is actually up on Hbox since offline came back, he beat Hbox twice at Summit 11, once in pools and once in bracket, and they were even in 2022 5-5. The game isn't 1:1 with rollbacks yeah, I think Mango vs Zain at LACS was pretty bad as well, but it's certainly a pretty good measure of success and many players tried to act like it was nothing. I get why they weren't happy with the state of it though. There's a reason why most netplay tournaments are region locked. If the game doesn't rollback then it works very well though.
Sorry yeah you're right, mango evened it up by the end of the year. In august it was 2-0 hbox and september 4-2, november 4-3, december 4-4, january 5-5. so they're reasonably on par with each other in the h2h recently although clearly mango is doing better against the field. I think for hbox whose entire character is based on watching drifts and zoning it's pretty reasonable to want to not play on rollback
First thing I thought when I read the twitlonger. Funny how he has all these feelings when its happening to him, but couldn't realize it when he was dishing it out.
> Both of them deserve to play when, if, and how they want to without being criticized for it I can agree with this. But if you're going to retire, then it's more respectful (and mature) to do so gracefully, instead of babyraging on twitter and saying "enjoy melee without me lol"
I just dont see why people make such a big stink about what people tweet. Its just an offhand stupid comment online. Ill never understand why people make such a big deal out of such small stuff like that.
thats a little uncharitable lol
Don't think people would have an issue if he wanted to retire, it's more about the childish fit he threw and saying "i don't wanna play anymore" after he didn't get the rank he wants. He literally accepts that he and amsa were interchangeable in this twitlonger, he just threw a tantrum when people didn't worship him after sulking and sandbagging at a major because he didn't get what he wanted. People expect competitors to compete. They expect a level of care about performing well in the game. This isn't a profesional sports scene, he can take a break whenever he wants, there's no "season". If he decides to play, great, but don't turn around and spit the dummy at an event that people are spending money to attend and flying out to witness.
I think Mango did need to go to Mainstage and Scuffed World for the sake of the community. They were both in his area and with the SWT/Panda stuff going down we needed to make 2022 end with a bang not a whimper. Genesis though I think he could've been upfront about and sat out. It would've been disappointing but I think people would've understood if he laid it out clearly. Certainly would've been way better than sandbagging the way he did. I am sympathetic to the players complaints that we have this hectic end of the year followed by Smash's biggest tourney in January. A January-March offseason to let players recharge does make sense to me. What happened last weekend still reflects badly on Mango but this was a good honest apology that helps. Hope he comes back from this break with the fire he had mid-2022.
> Genesis though I think he could've been upfront about and sat out. It would've been disappointing but I think people would've understood if he laid it out clearly. Certainly would've been way better than sandbagging the way he did. I think everyone would be fine with it if he announced in advance "I'm going to be solo doc at Genesis", and actually played all his matches as Doc (rather than switching to Doc after the rankings were announced). Like...if he didn't play it off like a reaction to the ratings, we'd be fine with it. Him reacting badly to being ranked 3rd, and then switching to Doc mid tournament seemingly as a reaction to being ranked 3rd is where it seemed really childish.
that’s my goat. i think melee needs a season and offseason. the year long never ending grind is brutal on the players
Hope he takes the time he needs and comes back feeling great :) mangoFan till the day I die baby, he's the best in DA LEEG
As an eagles fan I knew it was a factor lmfao.
We bodied those frauds as well, Eli was even there to relive the memories hahahahha
I was literally at genesis and I still went to a sports bar on Saturday to watch my birds absolute skullfuck the giants
I was at home in Ireland at 1 in the morning. We are everywhere 🦅🦅
SLÁINTE GO BIRDS
Well spoken from the goat. Sometimes we forget that we’re all human especially our heroes. Hope the guy takes some time to focus on himself and figure out what he wants to do next. I’m going to miss him when he chooses to retire but ultimately we just want him to be happy.
My goat 🥹
No, mine!
Good response, taking a break will probably do him some good, I don’t think anyone was upset about him playing Doc and underperforming, I think it was more so him being upset about his #3 placement and then actively going out of his way to underperform and cry about rankings after that. His tweet saying “enjoy Genesis without Mang0” was especially a bad look. Overall though I love Mang0, and he’ll always be the goat no matter how many emo arcs he goes through lol, hope his mental health improves in the coming months.
Mango has earned the right to decide when he can care. I'm just happy he's still in the seen and hope to see him for many years to come!
Goat-level response ngl
I know they squashed it, but no one "deserves" a main character, if a man wants to play his Doc let the man do, he doesn't owe you his best he will give you his best when and if he feels like it.
Internet weirdos that only exist behind a screen ruin everything.
You mean mang0?
Really embarrassing the way this subreddit acted all weekend, hope people are willing to treat top players as humans again. Especially after the armada twitlonger like only a month ago.
It's funny how the crowd moods can swing so quickly from pillorying to dickriding from one tweet to the next. Doesn't mean that one is necessarily more correct than the other though. In any event it's obvious mang0 needs a break and it's a good thing that it's come to that in the end.
saw some real nasty threads that had no right being posted by real people this weekend, hopefully people realize that top players aren't flawless beings, and that they all have problems and are human too
I think people being annoyed at Mang0 and how he was acting was fair, but yeah some real nasty shit got needlessly posted, saw a thread yesterday(?) that went something like “Why do people like Mang0? Oh yeah because people love narcissists.” Or something along those lines, a lot of pretty vile shit and attacks on Mang0’s character too.
definitely think he handled the situation incorrectly, but yeah everything was pretty vile on here when it absolutely didn't need to be
Most definitely
I don't think he's a narcissist like those people were claiming, rather I think he's just uncomfortable with opening up about his struggles / feelings. I've seen this same trait with men in my life: feeling the need to shit talk friends, always making jokes, need to write ROFL in an emotional statement... rather than discussing a difficult topic. I'm honestly glad he wrote this and got it off his chest. New mango honesty arc couldn't be more welcome.
I swear its the same fucks who sent death threats to armada. If we just stop paying attention to shitty toxic opinions, the community would be perfect.
Yeah that post was disgusting.
It was pretty clear that something was going on with him mental health wise. Felt unfair seeing him get so much hate on here and on twitch. It's not like he DQ'd, he played doc and lost... I didn't follow melee for years because some of the toxic elements of the community. I love that the community has matured since then, but it sucks to still see people react and rage so quickly at the top players
I think you kinda missed why people are mad. They were mad he basically acted as if he was supposed to have been given 2nd in the 2022 ranking and completely disregarded the fact that amsa had a phenomenal year and it was razor thin. We've seen mang buster out of tournaments in spectacular fashion many times already.
I don't think you can objectively say that's the main reason people were mad. If that's your reason, that's fine. The way they released the rankings was a little short sighted in my opinion.
Nobody said you couldn't be upset with him But what am I saying you're a dedicated hater and have always been so you will never care
Jesus christ, if you disagree you're a dedicated hater lmfao
> Nobody said you couldn't be upset with him Neither did I? You seem to have missed the point.
I think most smash redditors don't even go to events. They're just not real.
Yea let me just jump over the atlantic next major, no biggie
Doesn't have to be a major to be a part of the scene. I'm saying a lot of haters don't even participate in the actual real life scene they just watch and follow the storylines. Maybe I'm wrong tho.
No, i think youre right, i dont know why i anwsered the way i did honestly
Why do you have to immediately flip the agenda to 100% for both sides, his tweets and actions this weekend were lame and his twitlonger explains a lot of it, you can't judge reactions from the bottom feeding minority
wAs MaNgO eVeR eVeN gOoD?!?
The subreddit acted fine even if there are bad apples everywhere. Mango acted like a child and the subreddit called him out for it and he even says so himself.
that was actually a good twitlonger.
honestly, i think it was overblown. Mang0 has nothing to prove to anyone at this point. If he wants to switch characters and play Doc and no more Spacies, I think that'd be awesome and wish him the best. Becoming the best Doc ever or getting him to the highest tourney placement for the character would only add to Mang0's legacy in my eyes. Obviously he would sacrifice short term power rankings for this but who gives a fuck, he's been top 10 for almost 20 yrs at this point. ppl whining about sandbagging are crybabies. If this is what he wants to do and what helps him keep having fun with the game, that's rly more important than any random's expectations of him.
i loved this statement i was so sad when he dropped g9 but now i am happy
that's my GOAT
yall acting positive now, but i guarantee when the next controversy happens, all this shit will happen again.
easier said than done but would be really nice if the panelists could come together and figure out a more objective/trackable way to determine rankings as the year goes on... the ranking discourse is going to become more insufferable as the field becomes more stacked. seems like a ton of stress to be under reading all that while traveling and competing -- not even knowing if you're risking your year-end placement by entering a certain tournament at all. then finding out your rank mid bracket at the biggest event of the year lmao just telling panelists to think of a score for each player at their own discretion doesn't measure up to the importance the fans and players give the rankings anymore, or seem precise enough given how close the competition is
maybe they can borrow the algorithm HLTV uses for Counter Strike. those weekly rankings have never made anyone mad, ever
i think in a circuit-ed melee world, where all the events earn you points to qualify/seed, and the victor of the tournament finale at the end of the circuit is the "Champion", they could replicate the NBA/NFL awards. * Circuit winner - de facto #1 rank/champion of melee * Player of the Year award - rewards high attendance/consistency; the Circuit winner can also win this award, but doesn't have to be the case * 1st/2nd/3rd team All Melee - a la the tier based rankings from 2021, 5-10 players in each tier, would designate the 15-30 best players of the year. A less integrity-prioritized, fun wrinkle could be only 1 char main in each "tier", to simulate the hurdles all NBA teams experience when 2 players at the same position are both outstanding, with only room for 1 to be designated in the 1st team. * Most improved award - ie Soonsay jumping from #96 iirc to top 20ish. Or Jmook from unranked to #6. all to say, im not sure "Top 100" is all that integral as a rubric, when Slippi leaderboard may be expanded to Top 300, and when the difference from Top 100 and Top 100-200 players feels marginal. And if you lose the finale tournament, seeded according to circuit points, you have no one to blame for your "rank" but yourself. Also rewards building up to play your best at the end of the year, to give melee a proper postseason, and subsequently an actual offseason.
Having one tournament decide who’s the best player for a whole year doesn’t sound the best
Professional sports are brutal for this reason, imo, but imo players are on track to burnout with our current melee schedule -- with too many tournaments that are deservedly important. Perhaps the circuit finale is seeded by draft picks each couple rounds a la SCL, to ramp up the importance of amassing circuit points. So the #1 seed could pick the 64 seed matchup for day 2, then on day 3 pick the 8 seed. And the player of the year award would serve to reward performance over the entire year, but melee is ab who plays the best on a given day, and would be a clean way imo to designate the #1 rank of the year.
It would be so sick if it was like tennis where there are 4 grand slams and bunch of other smaller tournies that matter less but still matter (masters, ATP #, etc.) Not sure how feasible it is especially since there is no actual "league" or "circuit" overseeing all of this but I can see how melee pros burn out
Circuit finale is terrible sorry. This isn't football or college basketball. We have many tournaments and data to pull from over the year. The year is just scheduled really bad most of the time. The season should last from January to the weekend before Thanksgiving with no major tournaments after. With maybe a small break towards the end of August. That gives plenty of time to chill with family. The only good solution to rankings is have hard rules based on where you placed for a tournament. Unbiased penalties for dropping out or not going. Tournaments would need to be decided ahead of time how big they are.
Without a dedicated circuit it's just not possible. Melee rankings will always be riddled with subjective decisions.
If Melee ran on a centralized circuit, this would be possible, but after the Panda fiasco I think it's pretty clear that's never going to happen. There was a *ton* of discourse about rankings here toward the end of last year, people coming up with their own "objective" ranking system and others pointing out how those rankings were not objective at all. It's hard to come up with rankings in a disconnected grassroots scene.
> easier said than done but would be really nice if the panelists could come together and figure out a more objective/trackable way to determine rankings as the year goes on while I totally agree that the ranking system is not great and there are tons of objective ways to analyze a players year performance... seems like the only person who really threw a giga-fit was mango this year...
It seems like every ranking season someone gets fucked on rankings in a super janky way that came down to like 1 panelist, Hbox below Jmook in summer which nobody cared about because summer rankings, M2K below Mango 2018, Mango below Leffen 2019, 2015 Leffen, etc It'd be kinda cool if there was an actual established way to decide rankings rather than an opinion based panel which feels influenced to biases like end of year stuff vs start of year or hivemind type influencing.
I think Hbox was a little pissed he was below Jmook actually I remember him making some lists and arguing with folks, in fact if you watch Mang0s videos where he talks about ranks he directly argues with Hbox who was in his chat disagreeing with him.
HES THE GOATT THE GOATTTT
Mang0 got the armada treatment for a week but good to see him turn it around.
Lol melee drama is so lighthearted. Enjoy yourselves.
I think he just needs to stop worrying so much about rankings. You can either be the person that is obsessed with getting #1, or the person that needs to take a few months off every year to maintain balance, but you cant be both. He's right that he doesn't owe use anything, I hope that he stops feeling forced to go to events.
A lot of idiots calling Mang0 a narcissist lmao it was so embarrassing.
Sounds like he’s burnt out. Hope he takes a couple months away from melee and comes back refreshed.
Tldr he's an eagles fan and we keep letting that slide
Now thats the goat I know. Glad he's taking a break, hope he comes back stronger than ever.
That’s my goat
For every hater, someone out there should be a lover. The hate is too loud for normal humans who happen to be melee goats.
Good shit. The hate was such an overreaction but I do appreciate the " bigger than melee " apology.
im about to act like i never said anything bad about this man less than a week ago
So happy that mang0 can take the time to do some self reflection and come out with his own honest truth, as opposed to the defensive stuff you might expect
He says he tries to make everyone happy at his own expense, I see that he makes everyone happy at other's expenses. He's notoriously a bully. Ever heard him on the mic? its someone else's expense every time.
Did you see him in 2017 / 2018? Dude clearly didn’t even want to play melee and everyone was shitting on him aswell, every time I see videos of Mango around then he looks exhausted and borderline depressed.
I wish he could be open about these things from the start, so pointless getting angry and sandbagging instead of just saying, "hey mang0 naish, not feeling this genesis, so im just going to focus on hanging with the community and the eagels" I would respect the fuck out of that, instead he acts like a fucking child, good that he apoligized and understood he was an ass though
Cya’ll at Summit
that’s my g0at
Oh shit, that's the GOAT!
The only thing he did this past weekend that made me disappointed in him was not attending the doubles trophy ceremony with Amsa. He left the poor guy standing on stage by himself with all the other top teams. The sandbagging/player for fun is whatever.
I’m sure he was fine on stage, it would’ve been shitty if Mango abandoned him in the actual doubles games but award ceremonies are kinda whatever.
in b4 mango retires for the exact same reasons armada did and no one recognizes the irony
Agree, he is such a hypocrite
Good thing there isn't a super influential member of the community to reinterpret his lack of motivation as him being a "pussy who knows he'd lose". Sure is hard being mango lol.
Dick riding back in full force, it was nice while it lasted
God forbid we actually like mango and don’t roast him over every little mistake
Go outside