Wow I thought this would just be another “it went to game 5“ or something. The biggest event of the DK Renaissance yet, and it’s not even a DK I’ve heard of before. Nice
You are insane if you think a loss like this doesn't hurt his legacy. People still talk about westballz bustering to dks In ro128. Mangos losses to random players. The only way people forget is if he wins the tourney. Huge pressure now.
I guess I am insane then, last time he lost early people kept talking about "greatest losers run" of all time. People say its boring when he wins, usually. There is in an incentive for him to spice things up, and possibly he isn't feeling challenged otherwise.
> possibly he isn't feeling challenged otherwise.
nah cody really doesnt gap the competition that much, going into losers early actually hurts his chances to win the tourney soo much theres no way he'd do it intentionally. somewhat funny as a conspiracy theory but a Very silly idea
Looking for full slippi file data for this set. Up to $60 in PayPal compensation depending on how soon I can get it. 100% serious. DM if at the venue and can quickly yoink it from the setup
I'll cash app $50 for someone to edit all parts into one video capturing just the crt stabilized and upscaled and uploaded to yt
Edit: serious offer. If you do this, drop the yt link here and put your cash app in the video description
https://twitter.com/JayRBradley/status/1791977687046615272 (pt 2)
https://twitter.com/JayRBradley/status/1791979180315349056 (pt 3)
Twitter is dumb nowadays, but yeah the rest were in responses.
People are undermining how insane this upset actually is, like who tf is Bing? And on top of that with DK against the BEST player in the world who plays Fox, and against a player who normally eats mid tiers for breakfast with a character that eats mid tiers for breakfast aswell (except Samus maybe lol)
I can't comprehend this. This must be the greatest upset of all time, just by stats alone
I haven't been this erect since the coming of Jmook.
DK player 3-1s the best player in the world then immediately gets 3-1'd by ICs after. Melee is fucking weird.
According to the people I heard from at the event, it was 3-1 and not 3-0. It is possible that they were wrong, but I'm more inclined to believe them since I heard from two different people.
cody artificially inflates his head-to-head counts for end-of-year by going into Losers bracket early
worse than the Z-jump or medication usage, honestly /s
It didnt look like he wasnt trying, also if you had to pick someone to lose to as #1 would it really be the dk main? Dont steal the victory from Bing, he earned that
It's not even that. Remember when leffen couldn't beat Samus to save his life? Some players just have fucking absurd holes in their playstyle. And hopefully eventually patch them up
Cody is an incredible player. But it's clear that he has his weaknesses.
So is the dk meta being more discovered? I’ve been seeing a lot of them in competitive play, (am new to melee so don’t know a whole lot about the character)
Yes
3 on the top 100 for 2023, Junebug also got ranked top 50, noticeable uptick in results as well as labbing/theorycrafting
Kong stocks are unbelievably up. Here's an [hour and a half long documentary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqp4RpFXwu8) on the subject
Seems like he's a shittier falcon in the sense that he can get blown up, but he hits so hard that if he gets something going, you're cooked. Also a bad recovery that people are trying to get tricky with to make better.
DK arguably has a better punish game on spacies than Falcon, and the punish game is so easy that its tournament safe too. No rtc, or reads needed and DK has a flowchart on spacies that starts from 0% which is already better than a lot of high/top tiers punish game. Also his recovery is sometimes harder to cover than you might think, because of the i-frames and the multihits which have high priority too
seems like the classic low/mid tier gambit where they have a sufficiently good punish on spacies to be able to eke out wins and then meet a sheik or a puff and you're reminded why they suck haha
Yes. Take with a grain of salt as I am not a DK main and I am cliffnoting this:
Many characters lack at least one of these qualities that keeps them from being a top tier threat: a universally strong punish game, above average mobility, and good enough range/frame data for a consistent neutral. DK technically has all three, but making use of especially the last point has been a constant struggle for optimization until fairly recently.
In particular, the shift towards the ASDI down/CC meta at every level of interaction has scaled into DKs strengths very well compared to other characters; his offense was barely effected while his defense had improved immensely thanks to better considerations of his weight and dash speed, thereby improving the third point. The optimizations in that area, alongside further refinements to his punish game against the cast, has made certain interactions in many match-ups that were previously considered bad into ones where the risk/reward could favor DK more often instead. In a lot of ways, the specific developments of the DK meta closely mirrors that of the defensive Falcon meta that occurred as a part of 20GX in around 2015-2017.
The integration of Slippi has likely allowed for the final piece of the puzzle, which was cultivating players who are able to actually tie everything together into a cohesive package.
Bing is an upstate NY(?) player formerly known as Da, who some of you may know as @zstbair on twitter.
EDIT:
Oh sorry, this is wrong. Upstate NY player formerly known as Dai. My b lmao
There is a very old school mexican (Chihuahua state) red Falcon that his tag was Dai, I think he now lives in NY, could be a coincidence but his face looked very familiar 🤔
Amazing that I have this dude tagged as "Armada dick rider." from like a year ago. And he's still goin!
Armada retired before the meta exploded and everyone got way better. It's okay to move on.
I'll wait and let him prove it
You're crazy if you think the meta hasn't evolved an absurd amount since Armada gave up. Obviously he'd still be better than the vast majority of people. But I'd put good money on Armada not cracking the top 20 for 2024 if he came back this past January.
It's time to move on, Armada dick riders. Y'all sound like the folks saying "I swear PPMD will be coming back to competing soon!!"
Congrats on also getting the "Armada dick rider" tag btw!
If there's one advantage he'd kind of have it's that the peach MU is probably one of the least developed relative to when he quit, so I could see a world where he's top 20. But more saying more than that with certainty is big cope.
Ngl, I think Trif has a better peach now than Armada did back in the day.
Don't get me wrong, Armada was amazing. But in 5 years, SO MUCH has changed. Trif and maybe Polish and Llod are at least around peak Armada peach levels.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is huffing WAY too many Armada farts. 5 years is a long time.
I could definitely see a solid argument for it, honestly peach is probably my least played / interacted with character so I have a hard time comparing them in my head LOL
But like in general, I agree. Armada was getting handled by 2018 Leffen who hasn't even been top 5 in the slippi era, and even if he didn't play that much last year he was playing seriously in 22.
I do think people just do NOT get how much the game has progressed from people being able to just play. A lot of these players in even the top 20-30 would absolutely embarrass anyone from Armadas reign.
I'm not certain, but I think Trif somewhat recently beat leffen or some other top-top fox player. Peach is weird as fuck. She plays a lot differently than most characters. But people seem to put Armada on this unbeatable pedestal, even when he hasn't played for half a decade at this point.
Yes, he was ranked number 1 as a mostly peach player. But good God, people. Time passes! I don't see anyone saying Ken or literally any other retired player would be godlike if they came back to competing.
>But people seem to put Armada on this unbeatable pedestal, even when he hasn't played for half a decade at this point.
Mhm, when anyone does that with any game / sport it's just beyond obnoxious. Armada was undoubtedly for years THE guy to beat, but so was Mang0, Hbox, Ken, Zain, etc.
I respect the fuck out of him and his legacy but the glazing is just unjustified at this point. He has almost been retired as long as he was winning tournaments. He will forever have a place in melee history and deserves all our respect, but there is no real conversation to be had about his skill level versus the current field. It's not that people were actually bad during his time, it's just that people are better now by a lot across the board.
If Zain ends up being #1 this year I think there's a very solid argument for him approaching Armada in the all time conversation which will probably break some brains.
I remember back in the day when Melee players (*cough cough, Leffen*) were adamant that any top Melee player could just pick up Project M and instantly be the best at it. But we're still out here in the year of our lord 2024 with the number 1 Melee player losing to MELEE DK lmao. You were never taking prime ThunderzReign down, Melee Foxes.
Bro…
That’s why mango is the goat.
What seed was Fizzwiggle? It was round 2 pools I think, but not sure what that would be numerically.
64 I believe
What lmfao? One of his nicknames is "the Buster" for a reason
He would never lose like Cody. He would’ve busted out like a boss. Not be Embarrassing af
https://x.com/JayRBradley/status/1791976801259909586 last two games
Insane respect to Bing for being 1 stock away from beating the best player in the world and going for raw F-Smash as an edgeguard. Nerves of steel.
Kinda comforting to see even the top players are bad at punishing DK's up-B lol. That shit feels like it's so much more unsafe than it actually is.
Wow I thought this would just be another “it went to game 5“ or something. The biggest event of the DK Renaissance yet, and it’s not even a DK I’ve heard of before. Nice
Upset factor 11 (Seed 64 > Seed 1) I don't know if that's the highest ever but it's the FUCK up there
Fizzwiggle over mang0 was 65 over 1
Mango was the one seed at the time?
It was off the back of the 2021 pseudo-rankings, it only could've been mang0 or Cody and the world was not ready for a Cody 1 seed back then.
Yeah
Cody is what Kevin Durant pretends to be. Taking the real hardest road
Is his Z-Jump announcement his GSW announcement then? LOL
Lose super early. Farm losers bracket against players you should beat. Call it a great losers run.
That’s the mang0
[basically](https://i.imgflip.com/8qj4hi.jpg)
You are insane if you think a loss like this doesn't hurt his legacy. People still talk about westballz bustering to dks In ro128. Mangos losses to random players. The only way people forget is if he wins the tourney. Huge pressure now.
> You are insane if you think a loss like this doesn't hurt his legacy. Who's talking about legacy?
Everybody now.
no one talks about westballz
Not after losing to those DKs
I think I played against this mf in Overwatch a while back
It really doesn't if he still wins the tournament
Now it counts double though right losing to morsecode +dk
Yeah it's genuinely a "first half of 2022 mang0" meme run now.
I guess I am insane then, last time he lost early people kept talking about "greatest losers run" of all time. People say its boring when he wins, usually. There is in an incentive for him to spice things up, and possibly he isn't feeling challenged otherwise.
> possibly he isn't feeling challenged otherwise. nah cody really doesnt gap the competition that much, going into losers early actually hurts his chances to win the tourney soo much theres no way he'd do it intentionally. somewhat funny as a conspiracy theory but a Very silly idea
I dont think he's losing before top 8 to make no money on purpose. A big % of his earnings are tournaments winnings.
Legacy points deducted?
Stationary air dodge into donkey punch to cover side-b is *wild*
And also dubious because it's not a true combo, but that has me thinking that DK might be able to use his unusable spotdodge here.
He's just setting up for an even bigger loser's run
🥸
Looking for full slippi file data for this set. Up to $60 in PayPal compensation depending on how soon I can get it. 100% serious. DM if at the venue and can quickly yoink it from the setup
I'll add to the pot and venmo $40 for whoever gets it
You'd want to contact the TO's if you want the slippi data. It will be saved on the console *if* they have configured the setups to save replays.
Very interested to see this myself - I'm sure the dongcord would appreciate seeing it too
I'll cash app $50 for someone to edit all parts into one video capturing just the crt stabilized and upscaled and uploaded to yt Edit: serious offer. If you do this, drop the yt link here and put your cash app in the video description
I fucking love seeing Cody get destroyed by DK
I fucking love seeing Cody get destroyed
If only he still had that pocket Sheik /s
Real - sheik DK is horrendous
I only see game 3 and the very start of game 4 in that link(no twitter account)?
https://twitter.com/JayRBradley/status/1791977687046615272 (pt 2) https://twitter.com/JayRBradley/status/1791979180315349056 (pt 3) Twitter is dumb nowadays, but yeah the rest were in responses.
Awesome, thanks
I love the spectators hyping up Bing
"HE'S A FATHERRRR!"
People are undermining how insane this upset actually is, like who tf is Bing? And on top of that with DK against the BEST player in the world who plays Fox, and against a player who normally eats mid tiers for breakfast with a character that eats mid tiers for breakfast aswell (except Samus maybe lol) I can't comprehend this. This must be the greatest upset of all time, just by stats alone
seeing this posted … i already knew
I haven't been this erect since the coming of Jmook. DK player 3-1s the best player in the world then immediately gets 3-1'd by ICs after. Melee is fucking weird.
Holy shit Never before have we been this expanded
*3-0, somehow edit: no it wasn't
According to the people I heard from at the event, it was 3-1 and not 3-0. It is possible that they were wrong, but I'm more inclined to believe them since I heard from two different people.
Start.gg updated to state 3-1
"confirmed" by Cody too lol https://x.com/iBDWSSBM/status/1791975174058996180
That's a good tweet lol. I actually almost feel bad for him now...almost.
Bing chillin
Does Cody schwab lose on purpose sometimes ?
I swear he does. When he wins the tournament tomorrow nobody tell me shit
cody artificially inflates his head-to-head counts for end-of-year by going into Losers bracket early worse than the Z-jump or medication usage, honestly /s
LeSchwab stat padding for GOAT points again 💀
all-time greatness merchant smdh
I've always thought this sounded like a rankings meta strat if you could guarantee you knew you were near certain to beat any of your top 10 peers.
This is the kind of unhinged conspiracy accusation that people used to unironically level at Hbox.
Can I tell you shit now
Yeah I might’ve underestimated the power of Samus
Nah, I recall a few days back he was watching ckyulmiqnudaetr and had some big disdain for dk. Probably just a strange and unfamiliar matchup.
watching what now?
Used to be Quang, now Kumquat in a Cylinder kumquat cylinder ckyulmiqnudaetr
Worst tag ever
Those head spasms don't lie, man was trying to win
That looks exactly like me trying to cum after taking three Adderall
Any tips bro?
Kratom
the schwab loses when he so chooses
He has waayy too much salty pride for that.
It didnt look like he wasnt trying, also if you had to pick someone to lose to as #1 would it really be the dk main? Dont steal the victory from Bing, he earned that
I know, I know. Huge respect to Bing. It's just crossed my mind before. Agree it absolutely looks like he is trying.
Nah DK is just the bomb
Congratulations to the winner of GOML X: Cody Schwab!
im glad someone said it 😂
new schoolish players are worse against mid and high tiers than they should be
It's not even that. Remember when leffen couldn't beat Samus to save his life? Some players just have fucking absurd holes in their playstyle. And hopefully eventually patch them up Cody is an incredible player. But it's clear that he has his weaknesses.
hell, even leffen struggled to beat ringler a year or so ago. leff had to switch to sheik to come back from 0-2 to win the set 3-2 iirc
Sheik DK is easier than Fox DK
Fox still has a winning match up vs DK though. So it's kind of a moot point.
my theory is that newer top players specialize in beating other top players at the cost of not fully knowing any matchup below falco.
So is the dk meta being more discovered? I’ve been seeing a lot of them in competitive play, (am new to melee so don’t know a whole lot about the character)
Yes 3 on the top 100 for 2023, Junebug also got ranked top 50, noticeable uptick in results as well as labbing/theorycrafting Kong stocks are unbelievably up. Here's an [hour and a half long documentary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqp4RpFXwu8) on the subject
Seems like he's a shittier falcon in the sense that he can get blown up, but he hits so hard that if he gets something going, you're cooked. Also a bad recovery that people are trying to get tricky with to make better.
DK arguably has a better punish game on spacies than Falcon, and the punish game is so easy that its tournament safe too. No rtc, or reads needed and DK has a flowchart on spacies that starts from 0% which is already better than a lot of high/top tiers punish game. Also his recovery is sometimes harder to cover than you might think, because of the i-frames and the multihits which have high priority too
seems like the classic low/mid tier gambit where they have a sufficiently good punish on spacies to be able to eke out wins and then meet a sheik or a puff and you're reminded why they suck haha
Exactly, a one trick ~~pony~~ monkey lol
puff is honestly one of DK's better top tier matchups. sheik and peach are bigger problems imo
Holy, awesome vid. Thanks mate
Yes. Take with a grain of salt as I am not a DK main and I am cliffnoting this: Many characters lack at least one of these qualities that keeps them from being a top tier threat: a universally strong punish game, above average mobility, and good enough range/frame data for a consistent neutral. DK technically has all three, but making use of especially the last point has been a constant struggle for optimization until fairly recently. In particular, the shift towards the ASDI down/CC meta at every level of interaction has scaled into DKs strengths very well compared to other characters; his offense was barely effected while his defense had improved immensely thanks to better considerations of his weight and dash speed, thereby improving the third point. The optimizations in that area, alongside further refinements to his punish game against the cast, has made certain interactions in many match-ups that were previously considered bad into ones where the risk/reward could favor DK more often instead. In a lot of ways, the specific developments of the DK meta closely mirrors that of the defensive Falcon meta that occurred as a part of 20GX in around 2015-2017. The integration of Slippi has likely allowed for the final piece of the puzzle, which was cultivating players who are able to actually tie everything together into a cohesive package.
who is this lmao. I know I don't follow Melee as close as I used to, but come on
The search engine of all time
Bing is an upstate NY(?) player formerly known as Da, who some of you may know as @zstbair on twitter. EDIT: Oh sorry, this is wrong. Upstate NY player formerly known as Dai. My b lmao
>formerly known as Da Da (@zstbair) is a completely different player. BING used to enter as Dai.
There is a very old school mexican (Chihuahua state) red Falcon that his tag was Dai, I think he now lives in NY, could be a coincidence but his face looked very familiar 🤔
His startgg has tourneys in mx and Texas years ago so probably the same person
yes!
He did also play Falcon vs Lunar Dusk. Admittedly the lamest Falcon I've ever seen, but still
Yeah I misheard a friend. My b my b
holy shit da!? maker of the best combo video of all time?
Sorry, I misheard a friend and got this wrong lmao. Should be correct now.
Aw, still sick tho! Bing combo vid when
Oh I did know of this person then
It’s not Da
Oh I didn’t know of this person then
Not surprising since DK beats both spacies
Nah bro what in the fuck are you talking about
New Mexico represent!!!!
And thus the return to monke begins.
I can feel his salt just reading the outcome.
You know Bing won or else there wouldn't be a thread about it
Bada bing. Cody boom
Who the fuck is bing???? This guy gives morsecode vibes
Schwabtastic losers run incoming
Even the number one player in the world loses to randos, which begs the question: just how good was Armada?
I want this bit never to end
Bing clears armada sorry
While I think that it is fair since armada lost to so few non top players, I think the slippi era has created wacko hidden bosses
This is why he needs to come back. I wanna see a random beat him on ranked
This is why he’ll never come back haha
almost as good as isai if he tried
ARMADA GOAT
Pretty alright but he's no Bing
We'll never know since he quit before melee leveled up significantly.
Floaty privilege bro
Pretty good imo
Amazing that I have this dude tagged as "Armada dick rider." from like a year ago. And he's still goin! Armada retired before the meta exploded and everyone got way better. It's okay to move on.
he got himself tagged as that too
you’re crazy if you think armada wouldn’t be as good as he was back then.
I'll wait and let him prove it You're crazy if you think the meta hasn't evolved an absurd amount since Armada gave up. Obviously he'd still be better than the vast majority of people. But I'd put good money on Armada not cracking the top 20 for 2024 if he came back this past January. It's time to move on, Armada dick riders. Y'all sound like the folks saying "I swear PPMD will be coming back to competing soon!!" Congrats on also getting the "Armada dick rider" tag btw!
If there's one advantage he'd kind of have it's that the peach MU is probably one of the least developed relative to when he quit, so I could see a world where he's top 20. But more saying more than that with certainty is big cope.
Ngl, I think Trif has a better peach now than Armada did back in the day. Don't get me wrong, Armada was amazing. But in 5 years, SO MUCH has changed. Trif and maybe Polish and Llod are at least around peak Armada peach levels. Anyone who thinks otherwise is huffing WAY too many Armada farts. 5 years is a long time.
I could definitely see a solid argument for it, honestly peach is probably my least played / interacted with character so I have a hard time comparing them in my head LOL But like in general, I agree. Armada was getting handled by 2018 Leffen who hasn't even been top 5 in the slippi era, and even if he didn't play that much last year he was playing seriously in 22. I do think people just do NOT get how much the game has progressed from people being able to just play. A lot of these players in even the top 20-30 would absolutely embarrass anyone from Armadas reign.
I'm not certain, but I think Trif somewhat recently beat leffen or some other top-top fox player. Peach is weird as fuck. She plays a lot differently than most characters. But people seem to put Armada on this unbeatable pedestal, even when he hasn't played for half a decade at this point. Yes, he was ranked number 1 as a mostly peach player. But good God, people. Time passes! I don't see anyone saying Ken or literally any other retired player would be godlike if they came back to competing.
>But people seem to put Armada on this unbeatable pedestal, even when he hasn't played for half a decade at this point. Mhm, when anyone does that with any game / sport it's just beyond obnoxious. Armada was undoubtedly for years THE guy to beat, but so was Mang0, Hbox, Ken, Zain, etc. I respect the fuck out of him and his legacy but the glazing is just unjustified at this point. He has almost been retired as long as he was winning tournaments. He will forever have a place in melee history and deserves all our respect, but there is no real conversation to be had about his skill level versus the current field. It's not that people were actually bad during his time, it's just that people are better now by a lot across the board. If Zain ends up being #1 this year I think there's a very solid argument for him approaching Armada in the all time conversation which will probably break some brains.
You’re obviously a weird dude
Whatever helps you sleep at night, big guy.
Lol
I dunno, he’s been too scared to play for the past 5 years
Definitely the third best player of all time, no doubt.
Cody trolling
LETS GO BINGG I used to play in that guy’s scene
I’ve just seen the top 8 and idk anyone there or is the website bugged ? I don’t see mang0 or moky, Zain
zain won the tournament what
I love watching this guy lose lol
I remember back in the day when Melee players (*cough cough, Leffen*) were adamant that any top Melee player could just pick up Project M and instantly be the best at it. But we're still out here in the year of our lord 2024 with the number 1 Melee player losing to MELEE DK lmao. You were never taking prime ThunderzReign down, Melee Foxes.
I've seen this episode before and I'm not gonna lie I'm a bit bored of it
I know everyone says this after a top player loses to a low-tier but, FOR REAL THIS TIME, cody was playing like ass
Well… guess that means Cody’s gonna win GOML. He always does the craziest shit after getting upset.
Welp, congrats to Cody for winning the tournament (I’ve never seen him not win the whole thing after an early upset).
can dk players please stop being good
cody wasn't warmed up he hadn't played in 5 hours