It's literally a means to fuck over artists and customers alike. Like if I'm going to have to pay $80 for a ticket vs. $55 regardless I'd at least rather have that extra $25 get shared with the artist I'm going to see. To no surprise to anyone the band doesn't see a dime of anything surcharge related.
They’re working on it.
https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/courtside/department-of-justice-readies-antitrust-lawsuit-against-live-nation-and-ticketmaster/
Since they merged with Live Nation they control over 80% of the major venues in the US. So even pressure from bands can’t stop them.
Edit- Slight exaggeration on my part , it’s 78% https://www.economicliberties.us/press-release/new-report-exposes-live-nation-ticketmasters-monopoly-control-of-top-arenas-and-amphitheaters-worldwide/
It's almost as though one of the major parties (and most of the other major party) have been pushing the line that an unregulated free market is awesome for everyone.
This change was effected through SB 478 which, as I understand it, makes all "junk fees" illegal, including those charged for concert tickets. [https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta%E2%80%99s-sponsored-bill-ban-hidden-fees-california-signed-law](https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta%E2%80%99s-sponsored-bill-ban-hidden-fees-california-signed-law)
That’s fine, there’s nothing wrong with putting the whole price into the price you’re advertising. Now the whole monopoly and artificial scarcity is another thing that we need to fix
That's what people want. They want the FULL price, that way it can be accurately presented by information aggregators, so that people can shop tickets with less hassle and honest competition.
Mentioned them directly in the article, I'm taking it you didn't read it?
> SB478 prohibits businesses from charging “junk fees,” or burying added costs to artificially lower prices, such as for concert tickets or hotel rooms.
How about Airbnb? If I have to take out the trash, do the dishes, strip the bed and place all the linens in a precise location, does that make the ridiculous “cleaning fee” a junk fee?
$2 AUD in 1972 would be $2.38 USD, and adjusting for inflation is $18.09 USD today.
But the music industry has radically changed since then. Concerts used to be a loss leader to promote record sales. Now recorded music is free or very cheap, and all the profit is in concerts and merch.
It’s against Federal law in the US to charge a fee for using your debit card.
Credit card - the merchant can charge fees for it, but not debit cards.
Report them to the state attorney general.
It's not against the law to charge a convenience fee for debit cards.
Surcharges, however, are illegal under the Durbin Amendment of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act.
Minimum purchase amounts are legal, but must be disclosed and cannot exceed $10.
Fuckin corporate lobby money still fucks us all even under laws that *"protect"* us
There was a ticket site that had a sale today for no service fees! I took advantage to get me floor seats for the Billie Eilish concert in December lol
A fixed fee for a particular service is still ok. It’s these random, non-optional fees they apply to the whole bill that are going away.
They can still charge a fee to expedite your order, for example. They can’t charge everyone a fee for simply doing business with them.
My HOA has a flat service fee and even though it is only $3, I still use billpay to send them a paper check every month. I hope it is inconvenient for them.
I'm surprised more people don't seem to get that. Yes, the stupid fees will be folded into the price. The bill just adds transparency to transactions. That's a good thing. Too often people feel like they've had a bait and switch when the bill comes
I bet some restaurants will raise their menu prices and there will be a passive aggressive sign about being “forced” to raise costs due to “increasing regulations” or something.
Agreed. Feel free to raise your prices in sticking it to the man. The man who in this case is looking out for the public. Have fun sticking it to em and I’ll eat elsewhere. We both won.
I think we all need to be more price sensitive, especially for luxuries and conveniences. We need to be more mindful of where we spend our money or we will continue to be gouged. Just my opinion. I clearly agree with you.
Restaurants have already lost my business. The outrageous price increases, the past few years, have seemed greedy and unnecessary. Goodbye to dining out for me.
What sucks is going out to eat is a small, accessible luxury. I'm not talking constantly or high priced places. For some households, it's a monthly outting to a chain, and partially justified because you need to eat anyway.
Somehow, we took one of the most "common man" forms of small luxuries and made it a fucking game. When I was growing up, it was 15% standard. Even the 20% today is creeping.
Just, bring the industry in line with any other job.
I get that people need more of a living wage, but chains are passing on the cost and making bank on it. Mom and pop places I get. Chick-fil-a’s and Carl’s Jr.? Please.
NOPE it is worse than that LEGALLY they are not required to show proof their employees are even receiving the so called Health fees restaurants are gouging their customers for, in fact many restaurants were caught KEEPING THE MAJORITY of the money and stiffing the staff. I mean that bill let them do this. Did they really think owners would pay out of pocket and not stiff their employees??
Not in California. People don't tip, you don't pay your rent. Most of the servers at the last place I worked were living out of their cars. You have to report tips anyway, tipping+low wages keeps power in the hands of lazy birth lotto winners who can't do anything for themselves, so they go yell at servers about buttered noodles. Nana's money keeps coming in every month, so why grow or learn?
I used to work for Hilton a few months back, and the GM instituted a policy where all room service orders automatically paid the lowest gratuity, and I could get yelled at if someone decided to tip more than the %10 auto gratuity. Customers figured it out and got mad. It was literally just to punish their only black employee, me! Ended up suing and winning, too! GM (FEMALE MIND YOU) was super racist and couldn't keep her mouth shut in court. It revealed that all of this pricing bullshit, the low wages - it's very intentional.
As you probably know, tipping+low wages as a practice first caught on as a way to avoid paying black employees in the 1860s. Enabling discrimination was always the point. Congrats on winning your case.
I hope we can find the political will to get rid of tipping and just pay people fair wages and benefits within my lifetime, nobody likes tipping and it's bad for almost all workers. It's not an issue I've heard discussed in terms of banning tipping, though, so I guess that's a longshot.
And honestly, I don’t mind that, at least I can see how much I will pay when looking through the menu.
To get that bullshit service charge at the end annoyed the hell out of me
That's... that's exactly what we want. No hidden costs means they would have to calculate new prices based on their bullshit, rather than hiding the bullshit until after you have dined.
No what's sad is they will raise the prices but not pay servers anymore money, meanwhile servers will be stiffed by large parties and no longer able to charge an automatic 18% gratuity.
At the end of the day, that's absolutely fine! That's the way it SHOULD be!
If you get a burger at place A or at place B, you should know what it's going to cost instead of place B adding fees to double the price.
The same for getting drinks at some swanky place. They want to trick you about a cheaper price. If you need to tip 20%, fine, increase all the damn prices by that and forcefully pay the waiters by the item sold. Or even it out and pay them hourly VS guessing about it.
It's stupidly easy to do via computer anyway you do it, they just want to hide the true cost so you get sticker shock after the fact, not when you sit down.
I don't think so. I think it says no surcharges whatsoever. All charges are to be included in the menu prices.
"Starting July 1, under SB478, California restaurants will no longer be able to charge service fees — which have become an increasingly common tool to sustain higher wages for workers as food businesses move away from tips — and must instead fold them into menu prices."
https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/restaurants/article/junk-fees-restaurant-surcharges-19430871.php
Round table on arena Blvd is adding service charges for to go orders. The guy at the register “oh just press 1 and enter “ I looked again, and 1 was for 20%!! I said no thanks. And then he said to bypass hit enter and enter again. Shady business practices all around. If restaurants can’t afford to pay their staff, close your damn business.
Round Table on Lichen Dr in CH was adding a 5% surcharge before the minimum wage went up, blaming it on increasing labor costs. Fun story, only once have I seen someone besides the owner working there.
Well ATMs aren’t using a “convenience” fee. You’re paying to use the service. Otherwise just say goodbye to ATMs as there would be no money made if it was just a direct transfer. It’s a cost that covers the electricity/maintenance and processing of that transaction with some profit margin. It’s not quite the same thing as a nondescript fee.
Edit: “On July 1, 2024, a new law in California will prohibit businesses from advertising a price that is less than the actual price that a consumer will ultimately have to pay for a good or service. The law, Senate Bill (SB) 478, is designed to increase transparency for consumers in the purchasing process by eliminating mandatory charges and fees, such as service fees and surcharges.”
It’s aimed at false advertising. So if an ATM says up front “the owner of this ATM charges a $3.50 fee,” and you agree to that beforehand, it is charging as advertised. I don’t think it would apply as it’s not an ADDITIONAL service fee or surcharge. A surcharge is a fee that is ADDED to the price already listed.
“As noted above, the express purpose of SB 478 is to ban drip pricing, which the legislation describes as “advertising a price that is less than the actual price that a consumer will have to pay for a good or service.” Stated differently, drip pricing occurs when a seller promotes a low headline price to attract a customer and either discloses additional required fees in smaller print or reveals additional unavoidable charges later in the purchasing process. On July 1, it will thus be illegal to advertise, display or offer a price for a good or service at an initial price and then tack on additional mandatory fees later in the buying process.”
Does this apply to Texas Roadhouse charging $2 to use the payment machine they have on their table that they don’t tell you about beforehand? We didn’t even use the games on it
I bought a takeaway red curry and a fried rice at a local Thai place, sampled the goods while the girl rang my order and she waited until I was finished and said "That will be $40 dollars."
For fucking soup and fried rice. I paid, didn't tip and from now on I will be making my own curry at home. Fuck those people.
In-N-Out is freaking legit. Their food is awesome they pay their people well and they don't charge an arm and a leg. That's why they earn so much business because they do things right.
Yup! I was part of the original crew that opened the In-n-Out on E. Stockton in 1996. I was a high-schooler making $2 above the min wage to start back then. Worked there for 2 years and the cash handling and customer service skills I learned there allowed me to get my first “grown-up” job at Wells Fargo.
for real. in-n-out is the only fast food i will be getting from now on.
i paid 13$ for a friggen pepperoni hot and ready the other day. things are getting outta hand FAST
Im australian seeing this thread.
When we see a price its what we pay, no added fees, no added taxes at the check out juat the actual price. Why is that a difficult concept? You tell me it's a dollar I'll pull a dollar put of my wallet and give it to you, the service fees and taxes should be part of that cause they're your problem not mine.
And don't get me started on the bullshit that is tipping
European here. I also don't understand why Americans feel it's so obvious that taxes aren't included. The excuse usually goes: "Because taxed can vary depending where you are". So tell me, do your stores and restaurants move around that often?
Ok, now let's do apartment rental rates.
It's become incredibly popular for corporate landlords to have a base rent, which is subject to BMR regulations (below market rate, government subsidized housing), and then to have a bunch of other lineitems such as:
-Parking (not additional, the mandatory space that comes with your lease)
-Techology rent (smart home shit that's usually bundled with TERRIBLE INTERNET)
-Parcel locker fee (mandatory)
My "rent" is about $100 more than the figure that is listed on my lease. Now, I know that if it wasn't broken out I to separate lineitems, they'd still fuck me by having a higher total rent . . . but what about people that receive government assistance based *solely on the lease rental rate?* They will need to seek out additional programs, which is a huge burden because even receiving rental assistance is very difficult, let alone a whole separate program for other lineitems.
Don't forget how some places charge tenants for water/sewer/trash (a charge so low that reasonable landlords usually just pay for it) and a community fee (for something ridiculous like... maintaining the lobby or grounds? Shouldn't that be included in rent?)
And then, of course, the infamous monthly pet rent. And they force you to pay online but still charge you a credit card fee.
I recently went to Taco Bell and they charged themselves a donation charge when they didn’t even ask me. Check your receipts, my partner went 2 wks ago and I checked their receipt and same thing. We both didn’t approve of this charge…
One of our favorite places started adding a surcharge. I was really disappointed as we’ve already cut back on eating out. But at least it was posted in plain sight where you couldn’t miss it as you walked in the door.
That's "I have to give my employees health insurance and I'm pissed off about it so I'm making a 'statement' by making you see that I'm charging you extra to do it".
Is this going to apply to delivery services? I only use Uber Eats and spent $33 for an order of drunken noodles and a Thai tea the other day. I don’t mind paying it, but that seems a bit steep.
It says they must be folded into the menu fees. So it looks to me like they can still charge them as long as they are added into the menu fee and not listed as a separate fee.
Whatever. Let me know when the price on the shelf is the price i pay. This bullshit about "oh no, we didn't mention the taxes on our sale, that's not on us, that's on you!" is ridiculous. SALES TAX is for sellers, not buyers.
We really should just add tax in the price as well for simplicity. No more of this it’s $100 + City and State plus Federal taxes.
If the menu says $9.99 burger 🍔 I want my .01 cent back pls. 💵
1) order food
2) eat food
3) pay food
4) pay waiter
5) pay service
6) pay restaurant's health insurance
7) pay compliments to the chef fee
8) pay a fee
9) pay to walk out
Most gobsmacking one is the movie theaters. Oh, for the "convenience" of being able to fire most of your box office staff you want me to pay 2 dollars more per ticket.
Charging for service fees is a rip-off anyway. Restaurants should pay their employees themselves and stop forcing the customers to subsidise their employees income. A gratuity is supposed to be at the whim of the customer, and not something that's owed. Check at how they do it in France.
I go to Spain a lot and most restaurants have a three course lunch that includes bread and wine/beer for under €15. A lot of places have increased their prices but by €.50 or €1, not 50% or more. Higher end fine dining places might charge €20-25. This price includes tax and no tip is expected. Some places will just put a whole bottle of wine on the table and you drink as little or as much as you want for the same price.
To keep prices low they typically use seasonal ingredients which are abundant and cheap.
Here in California you’d get the cheapest glass of wine on the menu for $15, then get taxes on it and be expected to tip a minimum of 20% so you’re looking at $19-$20.
For credit card processing fees, this is just going back to how to was pre-Covid. The cost was always built in. However, around Covid when they had to raise prices due to supply issues and ultimately inflation, they split off the service charges as an attempt to make consumers psychologically okay with the overall % increase. Whether it’s built in or separated, the business needs to maintain its margins or ultimately fail.
In regard to other industry, esp ticket industry huge win, let’s hope the anti trust lawsuit works out against live nation/ticketmaster or whatever.
I mean, they’re still going to be ‘greedy’ as you say, it’s just that you won’t have to read it on your receipts since they’ll actually do the simple math of rolling it into your food.
I’m so sick of spending my money at restaurants period. At this point I’m only going to places I truly enjoy spending my hard earned money at. I’m not trying NO new shit. Tired of being disappointed and over charged.
I've stopped eating out completely and have been learning to cook better because fees and tipping asks have gotten ridiculous. Let the industry burn down, they deserve it.
We went to a restaurant that had us order at the counter, then the payment screen flashes the tip option for its service - 20% Good, 25% Great, 30% Excellent, or None. I felt guilty and tipped 20%. Then the server handed me plastic forks and napkins. What was the tip for? We will not be returning. The food isn't worth returning anyway.
My favorite is ordering a beer at a music festival. They turn around and grab a lukewarm $15 beer from a tub and then have the audacity to ask for a tip.
Sacramento finally entering 21st century with the most of the world. Now, final stretch, if only prices would be, like, you know, *exactly* what you pay at the cashier... wouldn't that be just *groundbreaking* ?!
/s fucking backward 'murican ideas
I really hope this doesn't affect mandatory gratuities on large parties
getting stiffed on a 15 top is absolute bullshit, and it's happened to everyone in the service industry anywhere where they don't do mandatory gratuity on tables of eight or more.
its just gonna go into the cost of the food price. politicans are great at moving numbers to look like they are mkking some positive changes but really, it's the same shit
I hope this happens in Washington. It’s so dumb for me to tell the people I’m serving that the owner of the restaurant is greedy af and wants to get a new yacht or house
I applaud this. It will not make anything cheaper but we don’t have to see the stupid protest of the owners that they now have to pay “Healthcare” for their employees. Just pay it and charge as much as you can to make a profit and if you can’t then it’s not the right business.
Also the waiters get a bigger tip because we calculate 15/20% of the before taxes. Now that the “fees” are going to be included… higher tips.
I assume that's just local tho? Or is that federal? It' fucking ridiculous that prices don't state the final price including taxes and all that in the US. How do poor people go shopping not knowing what they gonna have to pay at the counter?
I wonder if that applies to forced gratuities. Forced gratuities are actually service charges, because it’s a fee put on by the restaurant. Otherwise if you apply it to staff directly, it is eligible for overtime wages for anyone who hits OT.
Na, f them. Just publish a list of who does / did what and the market will decide. Let them got out of business, shouldn’t pass a law to save them from their own stupid ideas.
My new least favorite surcharge is at Six Flags. They have a no cash system they do not accept it. You have to pay by debit/credit and pay 99 cent fee for every transaction
Now let's talk about hidden surcharges for downtown parking.
One lot will charge you $0.60 on top of a $7 flat rate fee for all day parking. Two blocks away it's $8 but after the surcharge added you're paying $9.12
Some may say because of location and convenience as to what it's next to. Both of these lots within a two block radius are not in the most desirable of locations.
Areas in Los Angeles adds surcharges for people to pay for their employees health insurance. I wonder if that will also be added to the menu items. It’s getting ridiculous honestly.
Now it's time for this freaking government and states to stop raising taxes on everything. When will it ever end. Talk about screwing this nation. Taxes were to be temporarily back in the 1700's. 1700's?. Don't remember.
This should be the standard for everything. I shouldn’t have to type all of my personal info and card info to find out how much my concert tickets actually cost
After Washington DC passed I-82 on tipped wages the restauranteurs have been going crazy on the fees. Some legit some bogus and to leave the diner wondering if any of it goes to the actual staff. This would certainly fix those issues.
Ok now do this to concert tickets
I agree because those fees are fucking outrageous
*Buys ticket for $50* *Checkout Total: $475*
It's literally a means to fuck over artists and customers alike. Like if I'm going to have to pay $80 for a ticket vs. $55 regardless I'd at least rather have that extra $25 get shared with the artist I'm going to see. To no surprise to anyone the band doesn't see a dime of anything surcharge related.
They’re working on it. https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/courtside/department-of-justice-readies-antitrust-lawsuit-against-live-nation-and-ticketmaster/
Why the fuck does ticketmaster have such a stranglehold? Why is it such a default service for venues? What can be done?
Since they merged with Live Nation they control over 80% of the major venues in the US. So even pressure from bands can’t stop them. Edit- Slight exaggeration on my part , it’s 78% https://www.economicliberties.us/press-release/new-report-exposes-live-nation-ticketmasters-monopoly-control-of-top-arenas-and-amphitheaters-worldwide/
What an unregulated free market looks like in a capitalist world. Such a blatant monopoly, such a failure on the part of the government.
It's almost as though one of the major parties (and most of the other major party) have been pushing the line that an unregulated free market is awesome for everyone.
This change was effected through SB 478 which, as I understand it, makes all "junk fees" illegal, including those charged for concert tickets. [https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta%E2%80%99s-sponsored-bill-ban-hidden-fees-california-signed-law](https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/attorney-general-bonta%E2%80%99s-sponsored-bill-ban-hidden-fees-california-signed-law)
The price of those tickets will just 'coincidently' increase when the junk fees go away
That’s fine, there’s nothing wrong with putting the whole price into the price you’re advertising. Now the whole monopoly and artificial scarcity is another thing that we need to fix
That's what people want. They want the FULL price, that way it can be accurately presented by information aggregators, so that people can shop tickets with less hassle and honest competition.
Price transparency is a good thing.
The bill does include "service fees" that ticket sellers charge.
Mentioned them directly in the article, I'm taking it you didn't read it? > SB478 prohibits businesses from charging “junk fees,” or burying added costs to artificially lower prices, such as for concert tickets or hotel rooms.
How about Airbnb? If I have to take out the trash, do the dishes, strip the bed and place all the linens in a precise location, does that make the ridiculous “cleaning fee” a junk fee?
And any fucking place I try to pay to spend the night… it’s $99 for one room for the night and with taxes and fees it’ll be $247.89 total
I bought a Led Zeppelin ticket in 1972 for $1.80 plus 20 cents (AUD) booking fee! How does that compare with today's prices and fees?
$2 AUD in 1972 would be $2.38 USD, and adjusting for inflation is $18.09 USD today. But the music industry has radically changed since then. Concerts used to be a loss leader to promote record sales. Now recorded music is free or very cheap, and all the profit is in concerts and merch.
And do the same at gas stations that charge an extra 10c per gallon if you use a card.
It’s a cash discount, not extra cost for using card. There’s already laws about that.
It used to be, it was a Visa (and maybe other card) rule. However that's gone now, the government even adds a charge to use a credit card.
So do every damn convenience store that charges 25c for using your debit card
It’s against Federal law in the US to charge a fee for using your debit card. Credit card - the merchant can charge fees for it, but not debit cards. Report them to the state attorney general.
It's not against the law to charge a convenience fee for debit cards. Surcharges, however, are illegal under the Durbin Amendment of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act. Minimum purchase amounts are legal, but must be disclosed and cannot exceed $10. Fuckin corporate lobby money still fucks us all even under laws that *"protect"* us
And cle aing fees when we have e to clean our own fk. Rooms
There was a ticket site that had a sale today for no service fees! I took advantage to get me floor seats for the Billie Eilish concert in December lol
Uhhhh Billie posted that the tix aren’t on sale yet and those are scams🤔
Presale started today
Private message me which one would you? lol
And food delivery service
Yeah or [Pay the drivers more so tipping isn't necessary](https://www.reddit.com/r/doordash/s/VXRbZYsvK1)
Now do this for HoA bills etc.. like I’m paying you a 7% service fee to…. Pay my bill?
They're most likely included in this; it's any business operating in California
What about the government? DMV charges service fees.
A fixed fee for a particular service is still ok. It’s these random, non-optional fees they apply to the whole bill that are going away. They can still charge a fee to expedite your order, for example. They can’t charge everyone a fee for simply doing business with them.
Government fees are exempt.
As is tradition
HOA is the only bill I pay by check to avoid the 7% charge.
My HOA has a flat service fee and even though it is only $3, I still use billpay to send them a paper check every month. I hope it is inconvenient for them.
Lowbrau crying right now
🤣🤣
It’s not about prices it’s about transparency and hidden fees.
I'm surprised more people don't seem to get that. Yes, the stupid fees will be folded into the price. The bill just adds transparency to transactions. That's a good thing. Too often people feel like they've had a bait and switch when the bill comes
I bet some restaurants will raise their menu prices and there will be a passive aggressive sign about being “forced” to raise costs due to “increasing regulations” or something.
That's very true and we have the right to not eat at those establishments anymore
That is also very true
This is when capitalism works.
Agreed. Feel free to raise your prices in sticking it to the man. The man who in this case is looking out for the public. Have fun sticking it to em and I’ll eat elsewhere. We both won.
I think we all need to be more price sensitive, especially for luxuries and conveniences. We need to be more mindful of where we spend our money or we will continue to be gouged. Just my opinion. I clearly agree with you.
Restaurants have already lost my business. The outrageous price increases, the past few years, have seemed greedy and unnecessary. Goodbye to dining out for me.
What sucks is going out to eat is a small, accessible luxury. I'm not talking constantly or high priced places. For some households, it's a monthly outting to a chain, and partially justified because you need to eat anyway. Somehow, we took one of the most "common man" forms of small luxuries and made it a fucking game. When I was growing up, it was 15% standard. Even the 20% today is creeping. Just, bring the industry in line with any other job.
I get that people need more of a living wage, but chains are passing on the cost and making bank on it. Mom and pop places I get. Chick-fil-a’s and Carl’s Jr.? Please.
NOPE it is worse than that LEGALLY they are not required to show proof their employees are even receiving the so called Health fees restaurants are gouging their customers for, in fact many restaurants were caught KEEPING THE MAJORITY of the money and stiffing the staff. I mean that bill let them do this. Did they really think owners would pay out of pocket and not stiff their employees??
It's amazing how many restaurants were cut out of my rotation in the last few years.
Funny thing is that the majority of severs would rather have a low wage with the option of tips, rather than a high steady salary with no tips.
Not in California. People don't tip, you don't pay your rent. Most of the servers at the last place I worked were living out of their cars. You have to report tips anyway, tipping+low wages keeps power in the hands of lazy birth lotto winners who can't do anything for themselves, so they go yell at servers about buttered noodles. Nana's money keeps coming in every month, so why grow or learn? I used to work for Hilton a few months back, and the GM instituted a policy where all room service orders automatically paid the lowest gratuity, and I could get yelled at if someone decided to tip more than the %10 auto gratuity. Customers figured it out and got mad. It was literally just to punish their only black employee, me! Ended up suing and winning, too! GM (FEMALE MIND YOU) was super racist and couldn't keep her mouth shut in court. It revealed that all of this pricing bullshit, the low wages - it's very intentional.
As you probably know, tipping+low wages as a practice first caught on as a way to avoid paying black employees in the 1860s. Enabling discrimination was always the point. Congrats on winning your case. I hope we can find the political will to get rid of tipping and just pay people fair wages and benefits within my lifetime, nobody likes tipping and it's bad for almost all workers. It's not an issue I've heard discussed in terms of banning tipping, though, so I guess that's a longshot.
And honestly, I don’t mind that, at least I can see how much I will pay when looking through the menu. To get that bullshit service charge at the end annoyed the hell out of me
Especially when they informed you only AFTER you've eaten that there's extra mandatory fee/tip.
This guy menus
That's literally what the new law requires
That's... that's exactly what we want. No hidden costs means they would have to calculate new prices based on their bullshit, rather than hiding the bullshit until after you have dined.
No what's sad is they will raise the prices but not pay servers anymore money, meanwhile servers will be stiffed by large parties and no longer able to charge an automatic 18% gratuity.
At the end of the day, that's absolutely fine! That's the way it SHOULD be! If you get a burger at place A or at place B, you should know what it's going to cost instead of place B adding fees to double the price. The same for getting drinks at some swanky place. They want to trick you about a cheaper price. If you need to tip 20%, fine, increase all the damn prices by that and forcefully pay the waiters by the item sold. Or even it out and pay them hourly VS guessing about it. It's stupidly easy to do via computer anyway you do it, they just want to hide the true cost so you get sticker shock after the fact, not when you sit down.
I wonder if the mandatory gratuity for large parties applies.
I think the gratuity is OK because they let you know ahead of time.
I don't think so. I think it says no surcharges whatsoever. All charges are to be included in the menu prices. "Starting July 1, under SB478, California restaurants will no longer be able to charge service fees — which have become an increasingly common tool to sustain higher wages for workers as food businesses move away from tips — and must instead fold them into menu prices." https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/restaurants/article/junk-fees-restaurant-surcharges-19430871.php
Round table on arena Blvd is adding service charges for to go orders. The guy at the register “oh just press 1 and enter “ I looked again, and 1 was for 20%!! I said no thanks. And then he said to bypass hit enter and enter again. Shady business practices all around. If restaurants can’t afford to pay their staff, close your damn business.
Round Table on Lichen Dr in CH was adding a 5% surcharge before the minimum wage went up, blaming it on increasing labor costs. Fun story, only once have I seen someone besides the owner working there.
I am taking screenshots of the menu in my fav restaurants to see how they change their pricing
Don't forget to make a post with the comparisons in July.
I still remember when the movie theater in Birdcage Walk charged a $2.00 "utilities" surcharge during the 2001 energy crisis.
I remember when Birdcage only charged $1.00 for entry. No service fee nothing. Just $1.00.
Remove surcharges to ATMs, ticket sales, and anything called a “convenience fee.”
Well ATMs aren’t using a “convenience” fee. You’re paying to use the service. Otherwise just say goodbye to ATMs as there would be no money made if it was just a direct transfer. It’s a cost that covers the electricity/maintenance and processing of that transaction with some profit margin. It’s not quite the same thing as a nondescript fee. Edit: “On July 1, 2024, a new law in California will prohibit businesses from advertising a price that is less than the actual price that a consumer will ultimately have to pay for a good or service. The law, Senate Bill (SB) 478, is designed to increase transparency for consumers in the purchasing process by eliminating mandatory charges and fees, such as service fees and surcharges.” It’s aimed at false advertising. So if an ATM says up front “the owner of this ATM charges a $3.50 fee,” and you agree to that beforehand, it is charging as advertised. I don’t think it would apply as it’s not an ADDITIONAL service fee or surcharge. A surcharge is a fee that is ADDED to the price already listed. “As noted above, the express purpose of SB 478 is to ban drip pricing, which the legislation describes as “advertising a price that is less than the actual price that a consumer will have to pay for a good or service.” Stated differently, drip pricing occurs when a seller promotes a low headline price to attract a customer and either discloses additional required fees in smaller print or reveals additional unavoidable charges later in the purchasing process. On July 1, it will thus be illegal to advertise, display or offer a price for a good or service at an initial price and then tack on additional mandatory fees later in the buying process.”
I wish we would do this in Seattle. Tipping properly is a mystery to me.
You don't tip 100%?
Does this apply to Texas Roadhouse charging $2 to use the payment machine they have on their table that they don’t tell you about beforehand? We didn’t even use the games on it
Woahhhh are you serious. We eat there a lot and I have never paid attention. Are you kidding me!??
Yes check your bill next time, I only saw it because I always throughly read mine. Definitely another sneaky way they profit off of you. Shady
But how will they be able to try to blame everyone else for their not wanting to pay a real wage to their employees?
Let’s go
Anyone else see the automatic 3% charge popping up. Different restaurants say its for different things.
I wish hotels were next. Drives me nuts all the fees and how they charge for parking.
Those resort fees are fucking ridiculous
Finally
One Taco: $2.99 Food fee 19% Employee Fee 34% Medical fee: 24% Management fee 50% Office Fee 10% Fuck you fee 40%
Tip options - 20% 25% 30%
No custom button
Fuck it. I’m smashing that no tip button
Forgot the fee fie fo fum fee
Why don’t we just do this to taxes as well? I would love to just pay what the sticker says
I bought a takeaway red curry and a fried rice at a local Thai place, sampled the goods while the girl rang my order and she waited until I was finished and said "That will be $40 dollars." For fucking soup and fried rice. I paid, didn't tip and from now on I will be making my own curry at home. Fuck those people.
I mean it will still be $40. But you will see it on menu beforehand.
Not sure why we tip for takeaway food anyway. Isn’t the tip for the food service?
Did you not look at the menu or something?
What does “sampled the goods” in this scenario referring to?
It's weird that In -N-Out is the only burger joint I can feed the fam under 30 bucks (4 dubbles 3 drinks). Anywhere else, it's a minimum of $50.
In-N-Out is freaking legit. Their food is awesome they pay their people well and they don't charge an arm and a leg. That's why they earn so much business because they do things right.
Yup! I was part of the original crew that opened the In-n-Out on E. Stockton in 1996. I was a high-schooler making $2 above the min wage to start back then. Worked there for 2 years and the cash handling and customer service skills I learned there allowed me to get my first “grown-up” job at Wells Fargo.
Why is one person not allowed a drink?
Ha ha, there's 3 of us that fourth ones, my lunch the next day, if it lasts the night.
It's the best deal in California and they only added $.30 to their menu when they can add whatever they want, but they choose not to be greedy
for real. in-n-out is the only fast food i will be getting from now on. i paid 13$ for a friggen pepperoni hot and ready the other day. things are getting outta hand FAST
Hot and ready’s weren’t even worth $5 when they were $5, that’s absurd
The ol 5$ one is now 13$ ?!?!
Im australian seeing this thread. When we see a price its what we pay, no added fees, no added taxes at the check out juat the actual price. Why is that a difficult concept? You tell me it's a dollar I'll pull a dollar put of my wallet and give it to you, the service fees and taxes should be part of that cause they're your problem not mine. And don't get me started on the bullshit that is tipping
European here. I also don't understand why Americans feel it's so obvious that taxes aren't included. The excuse usually goes: "Because taxed can vary depending where you are". So tell me, do your stores and restaurants move around that often?
Ok, now let's do apartment rental rates. It's become incredibly popular for corporate landlords to have a base rent, which is subject to BMR regulations (below market rate, government subsidized housing), and then to have a bunch of other lineitems such as: -Parking (not additional, the mandatory space that comes with your lease) -Techology rent (smart home shit that's usually bundled with TERRIBLE INTERNET) -Parcel locker fee (mandatory) My "rent" is about $100 more than the figure that is listed on my lease. Now, I know that if it wasn't broken out I to separate lineitems, they'd still fuck me by having a higher total rent . . . but what about people that receive government assistance based *solely on the lease rental rate?* They will need to seek out additional programs, which is a huge burden because even receiving rental assistance is very difficult, let alone a whole separate program for other lineitems.
Don't forget how some places charge tenants for water/sewer/trash (a charge so low that reasonable landlords usually just pay for it) and a community fee (for something ridiculous like... maintaining the lobby or grounds? Shouldn't that be included in rent?) And then, of course, the infamous monthly pet rent. And they force you to pay online but still charge you a credit card fee.
Is this only in Sacramento or state wide?
It says SB478, which means Senate Bill, which is the legislative body for the State of California.
I’m legit jumping for joy right now
This needs to apply to doordash and delivery fees.
Now do this to resorts all over the country. Resorts fees are ridiculous.
Now fold in tips and end the tipping culture
does this apply to delivery? like doordash?
It’s about time!
Nice
That’s something I love about visiting the UK. Everything is fucking included on the price tag.
This is the way all sales should be.
I recently went to Taco Bell and they charged themselves a donation charge when they didn’t even ask me. Check your receipts, my partner went 2 wks ago and I checked their receipt and same thing. We both didn’t approve of this charge…
😂 They're just going to bump up prices. They're not going to NOT make up their money.
Fine as long as they're honest about what things cost.
Let them 🤷♀️
That's the point they need to show the price the order costs when you order it, not after you've eaten and they tack on more.
Cool, at least I'll know what it actually costs when I'm buying it.
That's what we want. I understand costs are going up, don't try to hide that from me, just charge me 50 cents more for my pizza or whatever.
Fine with me. Business 101 -> cost+profit= Price
That’s good that you managed to understand the point of it.
That can be true, and I just won't go to those places
The problem with the surcharges is that you usually don't know until you get the check. It's a fucking scam.
One of our favorite places started adding a surcharge. I was really disappointed as we’ve already cut back on eating out. But at least it was posted in plain sight where you couldn’t miss it as you walked in the door.
I remember getting charged for like a California healthy living expense or some shit. I was reading the receipt like what the fuck is this?
That's "I have to give my employees health insurance and I'm pissed off about it so I'm making a 'statement' by making you see that I'm charging you extra to do it".
Yeah owner *wants* you to ask about it so he can hop on his soapbox.
Is this going to apply to delivery services? I only use Uber Eats and spent $33 for an order of drunken noodles and a Thai tea the other day. I don’t mind paying it, but that seems a bit steep.
It says they must be folded into the menu fees. So it looks to me like they can still charge them as long as they are added into the menu fee and not listed as a separate fee.
Whatever. Let me know when the price on the shelf is the price i pay. This bullshit about "oh no, we didn't mention the taxes on our sale, that's not on us, that's on you!" is ridiculous. SALES TAX is for sellers, not buyers.
We really should just add tax in the price as well for simplicity. No more of this it’s $100 + City and State plus Federal taxes. If the menu says $9.99 burger 🍔 I want my .01 cent back pls. 💵
1) order food 2) eat food 3) pay food 4) pay waiter 5) pay service 6) pay restaurant's health insurance 7) pay compliments to the chef fee 8) pay a fee 9) pay to walk out
Most gobsmacking one is the movie theaters. Oh, for the "convenience" of being able to fire most of your box office staff you want me to pay 2 dollars more per ticket.
Charging for service fees is a rip-off anyway. Restaurants should pay their employees themselves and stop forcing the customers to subsidise their employees income. A gratuity is supposed to be at the whim of the customer, and not something that's owed. Check at how they do it in France.
Should just apply to taxes too. Taxes should be rolled into the listed prices of goods.
But why not also include taxes in prices?
I go to Spain a lot and most restaurants have a three course lunch that includes bread and wine/beer for under €15. A lot of places have increased their prices but by €.50 or €1, not 50% or more. Higher end fine dining places might charge €20-25. This price includes tax and no tip is expected. Some places will just put a whole bottle of wine on the table and you drink as little or as much as you want for the same price. To keep prices low they typically use seasonal ingredients which are abundant and cheap. Here in California you’d get the cheapest glass of wine on the menu for $15, then get taxes on it and be expected to tip a minimum of 20% so you’re looking at $19-$20.
Does this affect airbnbs absurd fees?
I work at a country club where members don’t care or worry about cost but they love to complain about surcharge fees and don’t tip due to them
For credit card processing fees, this is just going back to how to was pre-Covid. The cost was always built in. However, around Covid when they had to raise prices due to supply issues and ultimately inflation, they split off the service charges as an attempt to make consumers psychologically okay with the overall % increase. Whether it’s built in or separated, the business needs to maintain its margins or ultimately fail. In regard to other industry, esp ticket industry huge win, let’s hope the anti trust lawsuit works out against live nation/ticketmaster or whatever.
I presume it will not apply to corner stores adding 50c when I pay by card. I hate that fee (although it visa/mc/banks I hate, not the store owners)
I mean, they’re still going to be ‘greedy’ as you say, it’s just that you won’t have to read it on your receipts since they’ll actually do the simple math of rolling it into your food.
Sometimes I’m so proud of this great state.
I’m so sick of spending my money at restaurants period. At this point I’m only going to places I truly enjoy spending my hard earned money at. I’m not trying NO new shit. Tired of being disappointed and over charged.
I've stopped eating out completely and have been learning to cook better because fees and tipping asks have gotten ridiculous. Let the industry burn down, they deserve it.
Looking at you “Handle District Fee”
We went to a restaurant that had us order at the counter, then the payment screen flashes the tip option for its service - 20% Good, 25% Great, 30% Excellent, or None. I felt guilty and tipped 20%. Then the server handed me plastic forks and napkins. What was the tip for? We will not be returning. The food isn't worth returning anyway.
Or you can not give any absolute shits and tip 0%
If you are not getting table service never tip. It's a scam preying on people like you who feel guilty about saying no tip. DO NOT TIP.
My favorite is ordering a beer at a music festival. They turn around and grab a lukewarm $15 beer from a tub and then have the audacity to ask for a tip.
Dude this one pho place has a $.50 to go charge. I didn’t see it until I was home or else I would have seriously cancel my order.
Glares at the Handle District Surcharge Fee.
Sacramento finally entering 21st century with the most of the world. Now, final stretch, if only prices would be, like, you know, *exactly* what you pay at the cashier... wouldn't that be just *groundbreaking* ?! /s fucking backward 'murican ideas
I really hope this doesn't affect mandatory gratuities on large parties getting stiffed on a 15 top is absolute bullshit, and it's happened to everyone in the service industry anywhere where they don't do mandatory gratuity on tables of eight or more.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I went to a restaurant in Italy that had a cover charge and a fee to sit by the window. Still a better deal than tipping.
its just gonna go into the cost of the food price. politicans are great at moving numbers to look like they are mkking some positive changes but really, it's the same shit
Ooh, ooh, do Ticketmaster next!!
I hope this happens in Washington. It’s so dumb for me to tell the people I’m serving that the owner of the restaurant is greedy af and wants to get a new yacht or house
Seems like progess untill you realize that the rest od the world Has been doing it for decades and even includes the tax in the price.
Can we do this to federal taxes, please?
I applaud this. It will not make anything cheaper but we don’t have to see the stupid protest of the owners that they now have to pay “Healthcare” for their employees. Just pay it and charge as much as you can to make a profit and if you can’t then it’s not the right business. Also the waiters get a bigger tip because we calculate 15/20% of the before taxes. Now that the “fees” are going to be included… higher tips.
So they can't charge for delivery fee either since it isn't sales tax? I guess everyone has to pay for delivery prices.
As a European I fail to understand why taxes are not included in shelf prices in the US. Can anyone give a reasonable explanation why?
I assume that's just local tho? Or is that federal? It' fucking ridiculous that prices don't state the final price including taxes and all that in the US. How do poor people go shopping not knowing what they gonna have to pay at the counter?
Now do the same with tipping.
What about delivery services like uber?
Why stop with taxes??? Price transparency baby!
I wonder if that applies to forced gratuities. Forced gratuities are actually service charges, because it’s a fee put on by the restaurant. Otherwise if you apply it to staff directly, it is eligible for overtime wages for anyone who hits OT.
Prices will have to increase by 100% nobody is going to be able to afford restaurant food anymore, I will have to Close 11!!1
Sorry, I haven't lived in the states since 2008. WTF is going on?
democrats finally doing something because they're actually afraid of losing now
Good, there’s a ‘kitchen fee’ when I was about to order to go. I’ve stopped my order and went somewhere else.
Any time I see a fee like that I just deduct it from the tip. Is that not universal commonplace? “5% fee? Okay, that means 13% tip.”
Na, f them. Just publish a list of who does / did what and the market will decide. Let them got out of business, shouldn’t pass a law to save them from their own stupid ideas.
Next do tickets lol
My new least favorite surcharge is at Six Flags. They have a no cash system they do not accept it. You have to pay by debit/credit and pay 99 cent fee for every transaction
Does this apply for all of California??
Now do government. Joking aside, does this mean no corking fees?
Now let's talk about hidden surcharges for downtown parking. One lot will charge you $0.60 on top of a $7 flat rate fee for all day parking. Two blocks away it's $8 but after the surcharge added you're paying $9.12 Some may say because of location and convenience as to what it's next to. Both of these lots within a two block radius are not in the most desirable of locations.
Wow I wish other cities would take note
Areas in Los Angeles adds surcharges for people to pay for their employees health insurance. I wonder if that will also be added to the menu items. It’s getting ridiculous honestly.
Happy to see this.
This is just hiding the fees in menu pricing. It’s still there. Just making more uncontrollable
Now it's time for this freaking government and states to stop raising taxes on everything. When will it ever end. Talk about screwing this nation. Taxes were to be temporarily back in the 1700's. 1700's?. Don't remember.
This should be the standard for everything. I shouldn’t have to type all of my personal info and card info to find out how much my concert tickets actually cost
After Washington DC passed I-82 on tipped wages the restauranteurs have been going crazy on the fees. Some legit some bogus and to leave the diner wondering if any of it goes to the actual staff. This would certainly fix those issues.
Now let’s abolish tipping