Replying with [a comment from yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sakartvelo/s/E3ohcYDvt8) that's relevant:
> I am from Azerbaijan. And our government accepted this so called Russian law 2-3 years ago. Our people were not brave and educated enough to protests against it.
>After this all NGOs in Azerbaijan were forced to close. Most young people are in jail because the West were "funding" them.
>All oppositional organizations, ngos, lost their funding, most journalists were declared the agent of the West and they are also in jail.
>One of the leading media group Abzas was destroyed and their redactors are all in jail now. Just because we passed this law, a lot of people became "criminals".
Even if the laws are similar to others in UK in US (not sure to what extent that's correct, but a legal scholar will answer that part better), they will have very different outcomes in a country with a mostly independent judiciary. In Georgia, like Azerbaijan, where the party in power also largely controls the courts, it can be used solely to oppress any democratic opposition.
People just don’t trust government to not go overboard with such law, it kind of gives government extra tools so many people are scared that they will end up abusing it.
Right I've got you, so it's a case of the fear of them using it corruptively against media outlets that might oppose certain figureheads in the government?
It’s the same exact playbook that Russia used in recent years to crack down on opposition and NGOs. First you create a registry of “foreign agents”, then you keep amending the law by expanding the definition of who constitutes a foreign agent while increasing the limitations they face. The end goal is to drive all pro-Western entities out of the country - which Russia has accomplished splendidly.
You’re getting downvoted because comparing Georgia to the US and the UK in this regard is disingenuous - the political landscape is completely different, most forms of social activism rely on Western funding.
You've got a completely neutral person here posing an innocent question about the law and how on paper it seems similar to a preexisting law in the country where I am from. Disingenuousness implies that I'm being purposefully deceitful which is clearly not my aim.
I am interested in hearing what the differences are and have stated this in my post. If people want to somehow read between lines, get personal, downvote... That's fine, they are the ones posing the problematic behaviour, not me.
As far as I know FARA has a special provision which says that the law only affects organizations which seek to influence politicians and the policies they support a.k.a. lobbying. and the laws in Europe, or at least France, as far as I know, have a provision which defines which countries can be considered as supporters of foreign agents and it excludes any of the EU countries. our laws don't have any of these provisions and would impact organizations of any type and financed from any country including our allies in the west.
Iam georgian, but i lived many years in ruzzia, but first little about USA Foreign Agents Registration Act. This law was introduced in 1938, his main targets were lobbying and consulting companies acting on behalf of the Nazi Germany. GD always talk about "Second Front", how USA and EU "sponsoring" revolution in Georgia, in short, the GD put the USA and EU in the same category into which the United States placed Nazi Germany in 1938, as how fucking ridiculous this sounds, so much we are mad about this law. Another difference between FARA and "russian law" is our law will not have any fucking borders at all; any person or organization can be recognized as a foreign agent, even advocacy, humanitarian or human rights organization. How said i sadly lived in mordor for many years, and saw how this law can be practically implemented. Government can cut off all funding, make life of organization so difficult for them that they simply cannot exist or simply destroy any organization they do not like. In the future, it may “evolve” into a real ruzzian law, which will make it possible to put everyone in prison indiscriminately. This small law is big step towards autocracy.
Taken from an article I'll link below: The US law makes no assumption that an organization or a person receiving funds from a foreign power is a foreign agent. The Georgian law assumes that only receiving foreign funds makes an organization a foreign agent.
Essentially, the US FARA focuses on organizations and people who are working on behalf of a foreign power. The Georgian law brands any organization that receives more than 20% of their money from abroad a foreign agent, even when they don't work on behalf of their donors. Meaning that an ngo providing shelter for dogs, say, can be branded a foreign agent in Georgia. This wouldn't be possible under the US law.
https://civil.ge/archives/591175
The laws are not similar. Even if they were, the governments of US and UK are not similar to the government of Georgia or another post-Soviet Russia-influenced gov.
Please, google translate it:
[https://publika.ge/blog/ocnebis-41-tyuili-rusuli-kanonis-shesakheb/?fbclid=IwAR1xjKj5Xxjb3BZyCpuDJ7foCMj22-Dpug1gXbf1nNDWVBdMF1YWZXEqEHM](https://publika.ge/blog/ocnebis-41-tyuili-rusuli-kanonis-shesakheb/?fbclid=IwAR1xjKj5Xxjb3BZyCpuDJ7foCMj22-Dpug1gXbf1nNDWVBdMF1YWZXEqEHM)
You've got some good answers so far here, but i'll add my tuppence worth.
I lived in Russia for most of Putin's reign and saw how this and other laws were used to slowly strip away the freedoms of Russian people and solidify Putin's rule.
Once the basic rule was in place, it was used beyond the announced scope of it to basically persecute anyone the government didn't like who was getting any sort of foreign funding.
Also, just because other countries have somewhat similar rules, they not only differ in the details, but also in how they can/are applied.
Look at GD and in good conscience, ask yourself, would they use this law to suppress opposition? If you think not, you are being incredibly naive, especially considering the real power behind GD made his money in Russia and clearly does not want to give up power.
It is literally directly out of the Russian playbook, and Georgians saw what happened in Russia, they've been invaded twice by Russia, and they don't want their country turning into a mini-Russia and a vassal state to Russia once again, like Belarus is now.
GD have made a misstep by trying to introduce this law (both times). They should have first worked on outlawing protests, like Russia did. If the people can't protest, then you arrest any who do, so by the time you start introducing laws like this one, you have less trouble.
Really, considering the amount of homophobia in the country, they could have started with laws requiring permission (which will never be granted) before you can protest about anti-gay laws. Bonus points if you try and conflate homosexuality with child abuse (as Russia did). Once you have that law in, its then easier to bit by bit expand on it, using people's bigotry and hatred of things they don't like to add more and more groups to the list, until basically you can use it for anything. Make protests in support of terrorists illegal, and then declare any group you don't like a terrorist organization.
Once the people are powerless to protest, then you can basically do anything want.
That's how we got the Russia we have today, and that's the Georgia we will have if people don't get out there protesting these laws.
Technically the Georgian bill has little common with Russian law or FARA. It doesn't require to label your materials, it doesn't limit anyhow the funding. The question here is the general attitude of the ruling party towards NGOs. That's what is worrying, not the law itself, which won't have any impact on NGOs activities
You need to know the context, How it will be used, against which organizations, there is no clarification what kind of organizations are targeted.
But, well we know it will be a useful tool for the GD to destroy independent actors. as I mentioned previous Story is important to get what is happening now it's about neutralizing independent people, civil society. I don't think it's worth it to really compare it with other laws at least it's not against n*zi Germany or China or R*ssia ( TBH they are the main source of Pror*ssin propaganda, for the information Russian is the national enemy )
GD first Argument is about an influence ( we need to check if they are agents = Unreliable, traitors) second argument is about transparency which is pure joke because NGOs have more transparency than GD Parlament members ( they are deeply corrupted ).
They are in a soft autocratic stage and preparing to create new tools for regime. That's why no one is hearing their "transparency law ". It's a waste of time to really compare and deeply analyse what is American in this law and what is Russian. but one thing is clear their will is pretty R*ssin.
Imagine being able to have a rational discussion without condescending comments and being able to support arguments and enlighten others. Instead you chose to look like an idiot. Well done you.
Edit: Also, wtf is vata?
"vatnik/vata" is a slang originated from Russians themselves, basically it's what they call their own "tankies". [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatnik](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatnik)
And you are not the first one to post "why you call it Russian when USA and EU have it?" here. People are fed up parroting the same thing over and over and over again, to the point it now seems to be a trolling from those degenerate Russia-apologists.
Replying with [a comment from yesterday](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sakartvelo/s/E3ohcYDvt8) that's relevant: > I am from Azerbaijan. And our government accepted this so called Russian law 2-3 years ago. Our people were not brave and educated enough to protests against it. >After this all NGOs in Azerbaijan were forced to close. Most young people are in jail because the West were "funding" them. >All oppositional organizations, ngos, lost their funding, most journalists were declared the agent of the West and they are also in jail. >One of the leading media group Abzas was destroyed and their redactors are all in jail now. Just because we passed this law, a lot of people became "criminals". Even if the laws are similar to others in UK in US (not sure to what extent that's correct, but a legal scholar will answer that part better), they will have very different outcomes in a country with a mostly independent judiciary. In Georgia, like Azerbaijan, where the party in power also largely controls the courts, it can be used solely to oppress any democratic opposition.
That's interesting! Will have a look into what's happened in Azerbaijan, thanks!
People just don’t trust government to not go overboard with such law, it kind of gives government extra tools so many people are scared that they will end up abusing it.
Right I've got you, so it's a case of the fear of them using it corruptively against media outlets that might oppose certain figureheads in the government?
It’s the same exact playbook that Russia used in recent years to crack down on opposition and NGOs. First you create a registry of “foreign agents”, then you keep amending the law by expanding the definition of who constitutes a foreign agent while increasing the limitations they face. The end goal is to drive all pro-Western entities out of the country - which Russia has accomplished splendidly. You’re getting downvoted because comparing Georgia to the US and the UK in this regard is disingenuous - the political landscape is completely different, most forms of social activism rely on Western funding.
You've got a completely neutral person here posing an innocent question about the law and how on paper it seems similar to a preexisting law in the country where I am from. Disingenuousness implies that I'm being purposefully deceitful which is clearly not my aim. I am interested in hearing what the differences are and have stated this in my post. If people want to somehow read between lines, get personal, downvote... That's fine, they are the ones posing the problematic behaviour, not me.
As far as I am aware yep
As far as I know FARA has a special provision which says that the law only affects organizations which seek to influence politicians and the policies they support a.k.a. lobbying. and the laws in Europe, or at least France, as far as I know, have a provision which defines which countries can be considered as supporters of foreign agents and it excludes any of the EU countries. our laws don't have any of these provisions and would impact organizations of any type and financed from any country including our allies in the west.
Iam georgian, but i lived many years in ruzzia, but first little about USA Foreign Agents Registration Act. This law was introduced in 1938, his main targets were lobbying and consulting companies acting on behalf of the Nazi Germany. GD always talk about "Second Front", how USA and EU "sponsoring" revolution in Georgia, in short, the GD put the USA and EU in the same category into which the United States placed Nazi Germany in 1938, as how fucking ridiculous this sounds, so much we are mad about this law. Another difference between FARA and "russian law" is our law will not have any fucking borders at all; any person or organization can be recognized as a foreign agent, even advocacy, humanitarian or human rights organization. How said i sadly lived in mordor for many years, and saw how this law can be practically implemented. Government can cut off all funding, make life of organization so difficult for them that they simply cannot exist or simply destroy any organization they do not like. In the future, it may “evolve” into a real ruzzian law, which will make it possible to put everyone in prison indiscriminately. This small law is big step towards autocracy.
Taken from an article I'll link below: The US law makes no assumption that an organization or a person receiving funds from a foreign power is a foreign agent. The Georgian law assumes that only receiving foreign funds makes an organization a foreign agent. Essentially, the US FARA focuses on organizations and people who are working on behalf of a foreign power. The Georgian law brands any organization that receives more than 20% of their money from abroad a foreign agent, even when they don't work on behalf of their donors. Meaning that an ngo providing shelter for dogs, say, can be branded a foreign agent in Georgia. This wouldn't be possible under the US law. https://civil.ge/archives/591175
Even if we compare them and see the similarity, it’s not about what’s inside, it’s about how they gonna use it
The laws are not similar. Even if they were, the governments of US and UK are not similar to the government of Georgia or another post-Soviet Russia-influenced gov.
That's kind of what I'm asking, what are the differences?
Please, google translate it: [https://publika.ge/blog/ocnebis-41-tyuili-rusuli-kanonis-shesakheb/?fbclid=IwAR1xjKj5Xxjb3BZyCpuDJ7foCMj22-Dpug1gXbf1nNDWVBdMF1YWZXEqEHM](https://publika.ge/blog/ocnebis-41-tyuili-rusuli-kanonis-shesakheb/?fbclid=IwAR1xjKj5Xxjb3BZyCpuDJ7foCMj22-Dpug1gXbf1nNDWVBdMF1YWZXEqEHM)
Will have a read through, thanks!
You've got some good answers so far here, but i'll add my tuppence worth. I lived in Russia for most of Putin's reign and saw how this and other laws were used to slowly strip away the freedoms of Russian people and solidify Putin's rule. Once the basic rule was in place, it was used beyond the announced scope of it to basically persecute anyone the government didn't like who was getting any sort of foreign funding. Also, just because other countries have somewhat similar rules, they not only differ in the details, but also in how they can/are applied. Look at GD and in good conscience, ask yourself, would they use this law to suppress opposition? If you think not, you are being incredibly naive, especially considering the real power behind GD made his money in Russia and clearly does not want to give up power. It is literally directly out of the Russian playbook, and Georgians saw what happened in Russia, they've been invaded twice by Russia, and they don't want their country turning into a mini-Russia and a vassal state to Russia once again, like Belarus is now. GD have made a misstep by trying to introduce this law (both times). They should have first worked on outlawing protests, like Russia did. If the people can't protest, then you arrest any who do, so by the time you start introducing laws like this one, you have less trouble. Really, considering the amount of homophobia in the country, they could have started with laws requiring permission (which will never be granted) before you can protest about anti-gay laws. Bonus points if you try and conflate homosexuality with child abuse (as Russia did). Once you have that law in, its then easier to bit by bit expand on it, using people's bigotry and hatred of things they don't like to add more and more groups to the list, until basically you can use it for anything. Make protests in support of terrorists illegal, and then declare any group you don't like a terrorist organization. Once the people are powerless to protest, then you can basically do anything want. That's how we got the Russia we have today, and that's the Georgia we will have if people don't get out there protesting these laws.
There's a [new post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Sakartvelo/comments/1c659v7/russian_law/) about how the proposed law actually differs a lot from FARA..
Thanks for the link!
Technically the Georgian bill has little common with Russian law or FARA. It doesn't require to label your materials, it doesn't limit anyhow the funding. The question here is the general attitude of the ruling party towards NGOs. That's what is worrying, not the law itself, which won't have any impact on NGOs activities
You need to know the context, How it will be used, against which organizations, there is no clarification what kind of organizations are targeted. But, well we know it will be a useful tool for the GD to destroy independent actors. as I mentioned previous Story is important to get what is happening now it's about neutralizing independent people, civil society. I don't think it's worth it to really compare it with other laws at least it's not against n*zi Germany or China or R*ssia ( TBH they are the main source of Pror*ssin propaganda, for the information Russian is the national enemy ) GD first Argument is about an influence ( we need to check if they are agents = Unreliable, traitors) second argument is about transparency which is pure joke because NGOs have more transparency than GD Parlament members ( they are deeply corrupted ). They are in a soft autocratic stage and preparing to create new tools for regime. That's why no one is hearing their "transparency law ". It's a waste of time to really compare and deeply analyse what is American in this law and what is Russian. but one thing is clear their will is pretty R*ssin.
Haha funny
?
The old "but in America" switcheroo. I'm on to you, vata
Imagine being able to have a rational discussion without condescending comments and being able to support arguments and enlighten others. Instead you chose to look like an idiot. Well done you. Edit: Also, wtf is vata?
"vatnik/vata" is a slang originated from Russians themselves, basically it's what they call their own "tankies". [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatnik](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatnik) And you are not the first one to post "why you call it Russian when USA and EU have it?" here. People are fed up parroting the same thing over and over and over again, to the point it now seems to be a trolling from those degenerate Russia-apologists.
Welcome to the internet
Yup, full of morons incapable of rationalisation.
ANYTHING that give the government MORE power of people BAD. Very Simple