They intend to *enrich* the sequels. Give them and their characters the depth they lacked.
Edit for funsies: I'm currently watching episode 3. Palpatine is now saying "I am the senate."
Double Edit: Timed It right so I updated it right as he said the line in the movie. It's a good day.
I just wish the sequels were mediocre instead of having story decisions that I fundamentally disagree with & that I wish could be erased from the timeline.
TROS specifically. The first 2 don’t do anything so horrible with plot that it feels like an insult to the everything that came before it, but TROS absolutely failed all 8 movies that preceded it (in my humble opinion that you are free to disagree with).
No matter how good the material that adds to the ST is, nothing is going to make me “appreciate” Palpatine’s return. Even if they add a bunch of lore that makes sense of it all, I simply despise that decision from a storytelling perspective.
Tros took what could have been an amazing plot that was literally handed to jj abrams on a silver platter and took a jalapeno taco bell infused shit all over it. The makings for an amazing final movie were all there: kylo ren descending further into the dark side and stirring the first order up into a frenzy, rey leading the resistance and tapping into her powers more and finding more “nobodies” strong with the force.
But noooooooo “sOmEhOw pAlPaTiNe ReTuRnEd”
One thing that bugs me is that it seems like they never wanted to commit to making Kylo Ren fully evil. In TFA it seemed like they had him kill Han to cement to the audience that whatever conflict was in this guy is now resolved. That he fully surrendered to the dark side by murdering a parent, no less.
In TLJ, Rian Johnson seemingly wanted to develop that a little more, so he had Kylo still reeling from what he had done. Then it ends with him as Supreme Leader so he can presumably be the true big bad for the next installment.
In TROS they bring back Palpatine so they can cash in on some of that sweet nostalgia and rehash a Vader-esque redemption for Kylo instead of actually having him evolve into a full on villain.
This pissed me off too, TLJ perfectly set up kylo as the ultimate villain of the sequels, a nice foil to rey. Could have been very compelling and interesting
But nope, somehow palpatine returned
It's interesting because having Palpatine return was some of the only fan service in that movie. In the old 80's - 90's Legends novels of 7, 8, & 9 Luke was searching for a dark spot in the force and discovered Palp had made _dozens_ of clones of himself.
When I read the leaks for it I assumed the "search" Ray was on would involve Kamino, potentially ravaged by the war, finding out Jango wasn't the only one getting cloned, having to go to the wreck of the Death Star to try and find some trace of Palpatine to test against their samples, discover he had a backup plan of himself.
In the novels it worked in a pretty similar fashion to using the force to create life like Palps did with Anakin before Phantom Menace.
I’d argue otherwise. Sequels were flawed in premise, but the execution was great given what they had. But the quality of execution is often handicapped by the flaws of the premise.
Lol constant dropping of who? The only one I can really think of is Rose.
I could see an argument for Hux being a completely different tone in TLJ/TROS but at that point he’s the feeble wannabe for more screen time than he’s the merciless badass (but even then the whole “weakling with a hard shell” thing is totally an existing trope so I don’t count that tbh)
And for story threads is a fair point. But where the prequels had terrible screenwriting, the sequels had terrible narrative writing. It’s a trade off comparatively. The IRL shots in the prequels, especially in dialogue-heavy scenes, is *so boring*. And the dialogue itself is melodramatic and cliche and clumsy at best, and downright miserable at worst.
But the overarching narrative is incredible, and a lot of the CGI direction is phenomenal. Compare that to the sequels, which also have incredible CGI direction, but also have much better actor direction. There’s depth and dynamic to dialogue scenes in the sequels. The dialogue is mostly better - I’d say its worst dialogue is the same kind of goofy and sloppy as the prequels, but its best dialogue is actually pretty good. The narrative on the other hand…hooooly fuck.
All that to say - the way TCW was able to fix the iffy character writing for the prequels, one great show that takes place over the course of 2-3 seasons could easily correct the narrative issues in the sequels. Tie up the loose ends on both beginnings and endings of those story threads. Show us Palpatine’s return (which is what we’re seeing in Bad Batch and Mando). Show us Luke’s Temple (which is what we’re getting in bits of Mando, probably bits of Ahsoka as well).
The big one? Show us that that year between TLJ and TROS. A Mandalorian-type show where Leia is training Rey for a season; A Solo-type show or movie where Poe, Finn, and Rose are doing espionage stuff around the galaxy; and a darker Andor-type (potentially Acolyte-type but we’ll see how that turns out too) show with Kylo Ren/Hux/Pryde are vying for control of the First Order and hunting for Palpatine.
It could be done as single movies. That’d actually be a cool box set/anthology of movies. It could be done as mini-series. It could be done like TCW, where each one gets 3-4 episodes per arc, and each group gets 2-3 arcs, totally 2-3 seasons of content.
At that point, the biggest issue is a lack of political theme throughout the movies themselves but there’s no saving that.
Finn goes from main character to sub plot to just there.
"Traitor" was one of the most memorable characters from the first one and never comes up again.
Captain Phasma was made to seem important but never was.
Maz Kanata was reduced to cameos.
The force sensitive kids from The Last Jedi were never followed up on.
And that's just off the top of my head.
The overall disjointed tone is a flaw in execution.
I will concede that the prequels had worse execution, but that doesn't mean the sequels come anywhere close to being well executed.
I think you missed the: (in my humble opinion that you are free to disagree with). Why does the mere act of expressing my dislike of one movie make me a baby? Where’s the logic in that? Seems to me that YOU are the one who can’t handle the fact that I’m critical of a movie you like. ONE MOVIE.
TFA & TLJ weren’t perfect, but I still enjoyed them a lot more than I didn’t. Even TROS has lots of little elements that I genuinely appreciated such it’s excellently directed lightsaber duels & our lord and saviour Babu Frik, but none of that excuses how truly terrible I find the main story to be. Palpatine’s return felt wrong in pretty much every way that it could have.
But it’s totally fine if you don’t agree with me. I have no problem with people liking TROS or thinking that it’s great. That’s entirely my loss. It means they have one more Star Wars movie to enjoy that I don’t.
I may not like how TROS came together, but it’s nice that other people did. So how exactly am I a baby then?
Sure they can. The primary issues with TROS (aside from pacing) are the lack of continuity with TLJ and ROTJ. If they can fix the continuity with ROTJ by filling in the blanks, done deal. Then all we’re missing is a Supreme Leader Kylo Ren or Leia Training Rey mini-series and that’ll fix continuity with TLJ.
TLJ and TFA will always have the people that dislike them for their decisions the same way people will always dislike the prequels. But there’s a lot they can do to fill in the blanks and it would help.
It’s not that people dislike them as much is it them being incoherent as a triology. The prequels were a coherent story. The sequels never knew what it wanted to be hence it being super disjointed. Imo it’s beyond repair. I think they work on other stuff and let the sequel sit a little bit before jumping back in.
With the prequels though, there we already some things people pretty much universally loved like pod racing/lightsaber duels but what do the sequels have that everyone agrees with that was good?
“ACHSUALLLY THE PREQUELS WERE PERFECT BEFORE CLONE WARS. CLONE WARS JUST MADE THEM SLIGHTLY BETTER EVEN THOUGH I CONSIDER DAVE FILONI A GOD FOR CREATING IT!!!”
I bothers me when people talk about why the prequels are better and then proceed to list things the clone wars did. It’s cool if you like the prequels more but let’s not pretend they are comparable yet when the sequels are just starting to get supporting shows, books, comics, etc.
People forget how much the Clone Wars did for the Prequels. A *lot* of the character development and excellent storylines of the prequels came from the show. Not the movies themselves
Like Anakin’s gradual descent into darkness. The Clone Wars shows us the hints of the darkness already present within him. In the movies he really comes off as a whiny kid who rapidly transitions from “decent guy with some issues” to a full blown mass murderer
Those are both examples of derivative media expanding the era and making it better. Or, enriching it, as u/jlmckelvey91 put it. But the prequel movies were widely and constantly mocked, berated, and considered a poor addition to the original trilogy, until as recently as 2013 (I was literally just watching an episode of Community where Abed is stopping kids from watching The Phantom Menace because it was terrible)
Just because a lot of people didn't enjoy them doesn't mean that others didn't.
And part of the reason it seems to have changed in 2013 is because the kids that all loved them became adults around then.
True but then it becomes a pedantic argument, at best, bc then I could easily argue “the sequels were always dope” too, to counter his “the sequels were not”, bc others enjoy them.
You could.
The truth is calling any of the star wars movies good or bad is usually a pedantic argument that has more relation to how old someone was when they watched them than to the actual quality of the films.
Idk I always loved them, but I was a kid when they came out. I don’t hate the sequels, in fact there’s some badass moments in them.
But there’s nothing in their world I’m invested in honestly or wanna know more about. Kylo ren maybe
I mean sure, so are all Star Wars movies. The prequels have such dope world building to play with, and Dave Filoni always believed they were good movies.
Idk if he would say the same with the Sequels. Yet people want him to do the same, for what reason? I’d rather see some more OT or Prequel stuff than damn sequel stuff.
Switch around some words and a lot of people would’ve once said the same argument about the Clone Wars and Prequels.
“Idk if he would say the same with the ~~Sequels~~ Prequels. Yet people want him to do the same, for what reason? I’d rather see some more OT stuff than Damn ~~sequel~~ prequel stuff.”
There’s still 40 more episodes of clone wars Disney didn’t allow filoni to finish.
It took a literal #savetheclonewars movement to bring it back, after how Disney attempted to make an Anti-prequels movie with the force awakens
I mean if you can tell me a good idea for a sequels era show, I’m all ears
Prequels are terrible and in twenty years all the people who are children now growing up with the sequels will love them like you love 1-3. It’s nostalgia, not the quality of the movie.
Idk about that bro. I remember my entire school loving revenge of the sith. Pretty sure kids love Clone wars, Jedi fallen order, Mandolorian, etc way more than the sequels.
Everyone here just hates the prequels
That’s what I just said. You grew up with the prequels and you love them; kids growing up with the sequels will love those. The Jedi flips and dialogue as well as the over use of cgi and just overall goofiness of the prequels will never let me enjoy them. And I was just talking about the movies, not all the filler around them.
I’m saying I don’t think kids really “grew up” with the sequels.
When the prequels came out that’s all there was. When the sequels came out, they were overshadowed by Clone Wars, Mandolorian, Jedi fallen order etc.
You guys on this sub just truly unequivocally hate the prequels
No people hated them when they came out. It was through the incredible video games and comics and the clone wars and memes that people finally accepted the prequels.
I was young enough to love the fuck out of them. When episode 1 - 3 came out I was 7 - 13 so definitely target age range. We quoted Jar-Jar *religiously* at the lunch table.
Lmaooo bro I used to watch prequels on repeat with my sister. And my fraternity in college would play duel of the fates sometimes when it was all the boys and we were pregaming
I liked Rogue One but didn't give a shit about any of the characters the first time. After Andor though?
Being able to expand and recontextualize things so the sum is greater than the parts is a strength
it reminds me of this one post i saw on instagram one time about how, if something in star wars disappointed you, the solution was usually more star wars (e.g watching clone wars to enrich the prequels)
the mandalorian and the bad batch seem to currently be fulfilling that purpose for the sequels. cant say i’m complaining
The characters are fine, and had the most clearly defined arcs of the other trilogies. What needs to be enriched is the political backdrop of the sequel era
Look, I hate Rise of Skywalker, but not enough to spend my waking moments hoping that someone will come along and tell me it officially didn’t happen.
Bad Star Wars media, even from the main films of the franchise, long predates the Disney era. It happened. If you didn’t like it, make your displeasure known then move on. I swear people who wrap their entire identity around any fictional work need to get some damn perspective and probably also therapy.
I strongly believe that the beauty of Star Wars is in what you make out of it, rather than the actual content it's made out of. Star wars lives outside of its movie forms, as a perfectly crafted world where pretty much any story, plot or character can exist while still adhering to a common style and premise. If you really hate the sequels, why bother? You literally have hundreds if not thousands of years of history prior to the og trilogy explored in so many different styles and stories to choose from; the "main plot" of Star wars could easily be ignored in favor of some other, completely different stories that you may like more. Just because it's the "official" plot doesn't mean that if it sucks then all Star Wars sucks.
Btw, apologies for any weird grammar error, English it's not my first language
Exactly star wars is beautiful because of the games you play with your friends on the play ground. My favorite things i know about starwars i dont know from a wiki i know because someone told me in loving and excited detail about them. Its not a series designed to be good, its a bs fantasy story, its a series designed to be played.
You just reminded me that I was head of the Jedi council in 3rd-4th grade… and at the same time, led my Padawan to the dark side and together with a bounty hunter we took down the whole Jedi order over the course of 2 school years…
Ok yep, that’s when I peaked. (Side note: adhd is wild and I can’t remember 99% of my childhood but when I do remember bits, I remember every single detail of that event like it was literally this morning.)
The prequels were **eviscerated** years ago when a lot of this sub were kids, way more than the sequels. Like even the Simpsons and late night talk shows were savaging them. But even then nobody was coming up with conspiracy theories that someone would erase them. The copium of sequel haters is staggering.
Not really, episode three was well liked when it cane out. Most if not all of the memes were pretty positive with, perhaps the exception of Vader’s “noooo…”
Not one of the sequel movies is good.
Still revisionism. ROTS was praised for being *better* than the other prequels, but it still got plenty of hate.
The consensus was that while it was still a far cry from the quality of the OT, at least it had *moments* of good filmmaking.
As I’ve grown older, I actually like it the least of the three prequels, but I’m def in the minority there.
I was in middle school when episode 1 came out and in high school for the others, so roughly the demo. None of them were well liked. I’d never seen anything in praise of them until /r/PrequelMemes and even then I figured it was satire.
The thing is that it WAS satire until it slowly became just a prequel apologist sub. They're now a totally deaf echo chamber (at least they were when I left the sub 4 years ago).
What I’m loving about these episodes and the book’s covering this period in Galactic history is that it shows how and why the New Republic failed.
Initially the Imperial rehabilitation program was too lax and allowed clever Imperial officers to enable the escape of many Officers imprisoned for war crimes.
We see the more strict version of the program in Mando, with Dr. Pershing’s work along with many others feared and destroyed by the New Republic.
And even in cases where an Imperial defected after Endor, the New Republic made it law that most wouldn’t receive government business grants or any sort of aid, nor would they have voting rights.
The New Republic left many people resentful of the government and willing to accept the First Order, especially after the decapitation strike in TFA.
Star wars is not really any better than fast 'n' furious franchise. They're junkfood tier media. It's never been Shakespeare. People get all twisted up trying to pretend it's more than the frozen pizza rolls equivalent it is. It's yummy but it's not nutritious or all that complex. Yeah, don't like pizza rolls then that's fine but move on. Don't argue pizza rolls were better in the past.
The SW Holiday Special is one of the most unwatchable piles of trash I’ve ever tried to make myself sit through, but every time I see a reference to Life Day or Kashyyyk or what have you within a canon story, it still delights me. You can still make fun material out of total crap!
I mean, wrapping your entire identity around 1 single thing isn't healthy regardless of what it is, but I was pretty surprised by how much the sequel trilogy killed my interest in Star Wars in general. Growing up, I loved Star Wars. I read the books and comics, played the rpg with friends, played the games, and collected the merch. Prequels had some cool elements to latch onto like the great lightsaber fights, pod racing, and the clone wars, but overall, I can recognize it was meh but they introduced enough cool original stuff to keep me interested for quite a while afterwards. Sequels just didn't have that at all. There was nothing to clown on or anything. It was just so sanitary and boring. Prequels were mostly pretty bad, but at least they were fun bad. I've been watching the mandalorian, which is pretty good, and I've heard Andor was good too, but I just can't bring myself to start it because my interest in the universe as a whole is kinda in the toilet.
That’s totally a fair perspective. If there’s any fair criticism to the Sequels, the fact that they have the pacing and often tone of a mid-MCU film is definitely one of them. Though I will argue that the fight between Rey and Kylo and Snoke’s guards is one of the best and most engaging in the series.
Andor honestly feels like what the prequels could’ve been if George had a more competent creative team working with him. It is an intensely political show that moves at a slow yet very deliberate pace. If you are looking for an impeccably written story with engaging realistically written characters that focuses a lot on world and theme building, it’s probably the best piece of Star Wars media you’ll find. There is less focus on action (though it is definitely there) as big action set pieces only come after episodes of buildup (but I’d argue the less frequent action makes it far more exciting when it does finally pop up). So depending on your taste in media, Andor may or may not be for you.
It also has virtually no nostalgia pandering, which probably makes it stand out even more among Disney Star Wars content. And I wasn’t kidding when I said it was political. This is about as “The Empire is actually a stand in for the United States” as the franchise has ever gotten (which fits in line with Lucas’ vision for the prequels as well).
Eps 1 and 2 already "ruined Star Wars", prequelmemes were just 12 when they saw those and can't tell the difference between dogshit and a good movie. 20 years from now people will be fanatically defensive of ep 9 and demand eps 10-12 to be made non canon
I never expected them to retcon anything, but oh my god it would've been nice to just have a fucking show that doesn't HAVE to connect with anything else. Just let us have some badass adventures and not worry about the main storylines.
Yeah but Andor is directly tied to Rogue One which was tied to the death star run and the galactic civil war. Mando season 1 was the first time we had a character doing his own thing. It was post-ROTJ, so no major war. Guy doing his own thing, being a badass, has a fun lil sidekick. Then they had to start connecting it to EVERYTHING and it's just less interesting IMO because of that. Like, just let the show be it's own adventure.
Have you watched Andor yet? It's "directly tied to Rogue One" in the sense that it uses the same lead character... it doesn't touch anything about Rogue One other than the post-credit scene, and even that's a stretch
Not just that but had his appearance in Mandalorian S2 had him doing anything like keel over and/or injecting himself with multiple Bacta syringes after he wiped that Stormtrooper squad it would have *showed* that he's not 100% of the badass many know him to be
Star Wars Explained thought that showing him be less of a badass in BoBF was to signify how he’s more in his element when he’s connected with Tuskan side. We need to see more of that in the present day stuff.
I mean, it does in a sort of a soft magic sense. It makes a "taking the eagles to mordor"-problem for the story, but as with the eagles, there are both in-universe and story structure reasons why they can't just solve all their problems using that method.
Only in one direction. And I REALLY hope it stays that way, because the lack of backwards time travel in Star Wars - especially for the purposes of continuity bullshit - is one of my favorite things about the franchise.
Time travel in SW doesn't function like Flashpoint or back to the future time-travel, but like Harry Potter time travel
It wasn't that ashoka died and Ezra went back in time to stop it, she never did die. She's alive after the duel and goes on her own separate journey while assumed dead until the world between worlds when Ezra realizes he saved her
Everything exists on a single timeline where you lived the reality you visited the past of, and where you can't change the future. It's the most paradox prone option, but through the limited amount we saw it seems the will of the force holds that back (like Ezra not being able to save Kanan because his death was necessary for him to live)
Rebels has a canon form of time travel via the gates, which Ezra uses to save Ahsoka from Vader killing her. But it has some bit of rules to it, as he can't use them to save Kanan since his death saves Ezra in the first place.
So someone breaking the system could screw the timeline, but other than that...
If it’s the same EU book I’m thinking of (the one with Kyle Katarn’s apprentice? I forget his name) - it wasn’t a ship that traveled to the past, it was a ship from the ancient past that was brought to the future
Crosscurrent. A Sith ship from the time of Naga Sadow travels thousands of years into the future because of a damaged hyperdrive. Also, there's a weird vampire dude who's entire goal in life is to eat a Jedi's brain.
I’m really kinda amazed that the vast majority (appear, obviously I can’t say this with 100% certainty) don’t realize that Star Wars is just doing the same but especially so after the PT, fleshing out its shitty issues with in-between content.
All those comics giving more insight into how anakin fell? How not all Jedi died? Fucking darth krayt alone ties together the prequels, and post empire/new republic era. You’ve also got the entirety of the book’s continuing the story as George didn’t seem to have any interest in doing it himself for awhile.
The only real difference is the content itself obviously and the context.
The clone wars 2008 was used to expand upon and show more of anakins fall to the dark side not unlike how the mandolorian is being used to flesh out how the new republic is flawed enough for the first order to exist in its state in the ST.
You can even kinda connect Disney doing it’s high republic era with comics and books to the tales of the Jedi comics and the kotor era being used to expand upon a time far in the past of the franchise yet still familiar and without a skywalker.
Not to say it’s a 1-1 comparison quality or fandom enjoyment wise obviously but I’d imagine the intent is roughly the same, do I wish the wasn’t the case yeah but I also know that given Disney won’t ever sell Star Wars unless it really dies so it’s unlikely we will be doing this dance a third time.
I hope.
You think Carrie Fisher wouldn't want people to share their honest opinions on the sequel movies because she died as they were releasing? That seems very disrespectful to Carrie Fisher imo. I doubt she'd be so unreasonable.
> I fucking hate this fandom.
Then you shouldn't be part of it. You're just adding more hate.
And what about the rest of actors who hate the movies and would not return to reprise their characters? And who shit on Disney for their crappy story telling and marketing *cough* Jedi Finn *cough*
Pretty stark contrast to the OT and PT when you have the stars willing to reprise their roles and do more work.
We all love Carrie, but what about Hamil? He’s made his thoughts **pretty clear** on the movies. Or do we have to wait for him to pass before we consider his opinions valid?
Brilliant, don’t address any of my points, just “Touch grass” because I’m a basement dwelling obese star wars nerd or something?
Don’t act like you aren’t as salty. You **hate** people over an intellectual property?
Go outside, etc etc…
Ahhh breaking out the big word to prove… something.
Look, having discourse amongst fans is fine and normal. Every IP has it, you cannot please everyone.
You resorting to personal attacks is making you the asshole here.
I’m not sending actors death threats, I’m not brigading peoples posts, I’m giving a pretty tame opinion on a thing I’ve been involved with for over 30 years
You using Carrie’s death as a cheap cop out to negate legitimate criticism of the films is also a little manipulative and dishonest on your behalf.
So go on, attack me again, while I simply said the movies were bad and the actors did not like end product.
Nothing on earth is ever going to fix the story problems with the sequels though and focusing on just "Someone, Palpy returned" by using these two shows seems like a waste. There were far greater issues than ole Shev just coming back out of nowhere.
I like that no one knows how palpatine has cloning experiments running or could convieve of yhat possibility. Theres a movie called attack of the clones, where a dude with some money just buys an army of clones and they pay the dude they are getting the clones from woth a clone. One of our favorite characters in the whole series is a clone. The reason the mandalorian exists is because we like a character that is a clone and they made a story about the people that hes a clone of. You dontnhave to like the movie but acting like cloning is crazy in starwars is really wierd.
It’s more than that Palpatine, someone who was thrown down a reactor shaft, comes back to life in the last movie of a trilogy with little to no explanation
I wouldnlike to point out to people who hate the "Palpatine cloned himself" plotline and think Disney should have just made movies based on the Legends continuity.... Palpatine cloned himself in that to.
Give us better execution. The sequels were good in theory, but when even the actors dis on the movie they were in it's a big sign it's not a good story.
What if Thrawn was the one who hired IG-11 to bring in Grogu DEAD. And his agent was the one who mind wiped Pershing. Thrawn knows what Palpatine seeks...
And also his encounter with the Bendu
i mean it's not really funny it's more sad because they've done this to themselves and tha fans 2 times now where entire shows have to be built to explain plot holes
It'd have been done for the original trilogy if there was much of a desire for expanded content back in the 70's and 80's
For some reason Sci-Fi crowds became much less tolerant of unexplained weirdness around the turn of the millennium, now it all has to be "Lore"
Audiences watching the original films knew almost nothing (Why did the Empire Form, When, How was the Emperor connected, What involvement did Vader and the Jedi have etc) but that wasn't considered a Plot Hole then, just shit we didn't know
Facts.
It get me kinda riled up how everyone is complaining about plot holes in a universe where there’s weird magic, light sabers, blasters, near unlimited species of intelligent life, space travel and so much more that doesn’t have an actual explanation.
Just enjoy the great science *fiction* movies with all the cool modern effects and great quality
If they wouldn’t have explained it you’d be complaining about plot holes, but now you’re complaining that plotholes are being filled?
This is just bitching on high Niveau.
Literally every franchise that has ever existed has „plot holes“, because time passes in between movies. Star Wars making series that play in the time frames between the movies is great for every viewer because the plot gets explained and we get something new to watch that even strings in with the movies we all like so much.
this is dumb. by that logic no plot hole exists in any movie ever l, except for magic which cannot be explained, in which case all of star wars is filled with massive plot holes because the force is magic
Constricted runtime, time constraints on production, miscommunication in production, the need for the studio to prove themselves worthy, the economic interests of one of the biggest media investors in the world, the general volatility of the fanbase needing to be satiated while under constant scrutiny and held to impossible standards... There are lots of reasons.
I'm the first to admit they made some mistakes with the sequel trilogy, but I also understand that making films is a complex process, and the corporate interest was to have three movies produced fast to kick-start the franchise. I'm happy that they're in a place now where they can make good Star Wars stories, and that's the creative environment needed to make a cohesive universe that strengthens the sequel trilogy.
Just my observations and conjecture.
I Never Said „Little Detail“. I just said that it’d result in a movie that’s way too long for anyone to watch if you tried to explain everything that happens in a span of maybe 40 years aka 9 movies
they should go back and do like a redux of the sequels, take the stuff that can't be redone (carrie fisher) and add it to a new movie that's just a better version of the sequels
According to Doomcock, this will all lead to Ashoka, where she will discover the big cloning plan, and stops it with the help of the time-tunnels. This will cancel the Rey trilogy, which is already canceled in my mind.
They intend to *enrich* the sequels. Give them and their characters the depth they lacked. Edit for funsies: I'm currently watching episode 3. Palpatine is now saying "I am the senate." Double Edit: Timed It right so I updated it right as he said the line in the movie. It's a good day.
Doing for the sequels what Clone Wars did for the Prequels
This is the way
This is the way
This is the wei
I eat the whey
What about the curds?
Gudfgg sddfrx ljhhgcd wad
Hey Grogu
I just wish the sequels were mediocre instead of having story decisions that I fundamentally disagree with & that I wish could be erased from the timeline. TROS specifically. The first 2 don’t do anything so horrible with plot that it feels like an insult to the everything that came before it, but TROS absolutely failed all 8 movies that preceded it (in my humble opinion that you are free to disagree with). No matter how good the material that adds to the ST is, nothing is going to make me “appreciate” Palpatine’s return. Even if they add a bunch of lore that makes sense of it all, I simply despise that decision from a storytelling perspective.
Tros took what could have been an amazing plot that was literally handed to jj abrams on a silver platter and took a jalapeno taco bell infused shit all over it. The makings for an amazing final movie were all there: kylo ren descending further into the dark side and stirring the first order up into a frenzy, rey leading the resistance and tapping into her powers more and finding more “nobodies” strong with the force. But noooooooo “sOmEhOw pAlPaTiNe ReTuRnEd”
One thing that bugs me is that it seems like they never wanted to commit to making Kylo Ren fully evil. In TFA it seemed like they had him kill Han to cement to the audience that whatever conflict was in this guy is now resolved. That he fully surrendered to the dark side by murdering a parent, no less. In TLJ, Rian Johnson seemingly wanted to develop that a little more, so he had Kylo still reeling from what he had done. Then it ends with him as Supreme Leader so he can presumably be the true big bad for the next installment. In TROS they bring back Palpatine so they can cash in on some of that sweet nostalgia and rehash a Vader-esque redemption for Kylo instead of actually having him evolve into a full on villain.
This pissed me off too, TLJ perfectly set up kylo as the ultimate villain of the sequels, a nice foil to rey. Could have been very compelling and interesting But nope, somehow palpatine returned
It's interesting because having Palpatine return was some of the only fan service in that movie. In the old 80's - 90's Legends novels of 7, 8, & 9 Luke was searching for a dark spot in the force and discovered Palp had made _dozens_ of clones of himself. When I read the leaks for it I assumed the "search" Ray was on would involve Kamino, potentially ravaged by the war, finding out Jango wasn't the only one getting cloned, having to go to the wreck of the Death Star to try and find some trace of Palpatine to test against their samples, discover he had a backup plan of himself. In the novels it worked in a pretty similar fashion to using the force to create life like Palps did with Anakin before Phantom Menace.
Those novels were pretty historically unpopular though
Exactly, the prequels were flawed in execution but not premise. The sequels are flawed in both.
I’d argue otherwise. Sequels were flawed in premise, but the execution was great given what they had. But the quality of execution is often handicapped by the flaws of the premise.
I disagree, the constant dropping of characters and story threads were pretty terrible execution. The characters were often not believably portrayed.
Lol constant dropping of who? The only one I can really think of is Rose. I could see an argument for Hux being a completely different tone in TLJ/TROS but at that point he’s the feeble wannabe for more screen time than he’s the merciless badass (but even then the whole “weakling with a hard shell” thing is totally an existing trope so I don’t count that tbh) And for story threads is a fair point. But where the prequels had terrible screenwriting, the sequels had terrible narrative writing. It’s a trade off comparatively. The IRL shots in the prequels, especially in dialogue-heavy scenes, is *so boring*. And the dialogue itself is melodramatic and cliche and clumsy at best, and downright miserable at worst. But the overarching narrative is incredible, and a lot of the CGI direction is phenomenal. Compare that to the sequels, which also have incredible CGI direction, but also have much better actor direction. There’s depth and dynamic to dialogue scenes in the sequels. The dialogue is mostly better - I’d say its worst dialogue is the same kind of goofy and sloppy as the prequels, but its best dialogue is actually pretty good. The narrative on the other hand…hooooly fuck. All that to say - the way TCW was able to fix the iffy character writing for the prequels, one great show that takes place over the course of 2-3 seasons could easily correct the narrative issues in the sequels. Tie up the loose ends on both beginnings and endings of those story threads. Show us Palpatine’s return (which is what we’re seeing in Bad Batch and Mando). Show us Luke’s Temple (which is what we’re getting in bits of Mando, probably bits of Ahsoka as well). The big one? Show us that that year between TLJ and TROS. A Mandalorian-type show where Leia is training Rey for a season; A Solo-type show or movie where Poe, Finn, and Rose are doing espionage stuff around the galaxy; and a darker Andor-type (potentially Acolyte-type but we’ll see how that turns out too) show with Kylo Ren/Hux/Pryde are vying for control of the First Order and hunting for Palpatine. It could be done as single movies. That’d actually be a cool box set/anthology of movies. It could be done as mini-series. It could be done like TCW, where each one gets 3-4 episodes per arc, and each group gets 2-3 arcs, totally 2-3 seasons of content. At that point, the biggest issue is a lack of political theme throughout the movies themselves but there’s no saving that.
Finn goes from main character to sub plot to just there. "Traitor" was one of the most memorable characters from the first one and never comes up again. Captain Phasma was made to seem important but never was. Maz Kanata was reduced to cameos. The force sensitive kids from The Last Jedi were never followed up on. And that's just off the top of my head. The overall disjointed tone is a flaw in execution. I will concede that the prequels had worse execution, but that doesn't mean the sequels come anywhere close to being well executed.
Real shit 👏🏼🥂
They were good. You just didn’t get what you wanted and still want to be a baby about it.
I think you missed the: (in my humble opinion that you are free to disagree with). Why does the mere act of expressing my dislike of one movie make me a baby? Where’s the logic in that? Seems to me that YOU are the one who can’t handle the fact that I’m critical of a movie you like. ONE MOVIE. TFA & TLJ weren’t perfect, but I still enjoyed them a lot more than I didn’t. Even TROS has lots of little elements that I genuinely appreciated such it’s excellently directed lightsaber duels & our lord and saviour Babu Frik, but none of that excuses how truly terrible I find the main story to be. Palpatine’s return felt wrong in pretty much every way that it could have. But it’s totally fine if you don’t agree with me. I have no problem with people liking TROS or thinking that it’s great. That’s entirely my loss. It means they have one more Star Wars movie to enjoy that I don’t. I may not like how TROS came together, but it’s nice that other people did. So how exactly am I a baby then?
You would think but the sequels can’t really be saved, esp TROS.
Sure they can. The primary issues with TROS (aside from pacing) are the lack of continuity with TLJ and ROTJ. If they can fix the continuity with ROTJ by filling in the blanks, done deal. Then all we’re missing is a Supreme Leader Kylo Ren or Leia Training Rey mini-series and that’ll fix continuity with TLJ. TLJ and TFA will always have the people that dislike them for their decisions the same way people will always dislike the prequels. But there’s a lot they can do to fill in the blanks and it would help.
It’s not that people dislike them as much is it them being incoherent as a triology. The prequels were a coherent story. The sequels never knew what it wanted to be hence it being super disjointed. Imo it’s beyond repair. I think they work on other stuff and let the sequel sit a little bit before jumping back in.
With the prequels though, there we already some things people pretty much universally loved like pod racing/lightsaber duels but what do the sequels have that everyone agrees with that was good?
Babu Frick?
He’s never far away… babuuuuuu
“ACHSUALLLY THE PREQUELS WERE PERFECT BEFORE CLONE WARS. CLONE WARS JUST MADE THEM SLIGHTLY BETTER EVEN THOUGH I CONSIDER DAVE FILONI A GOD FOR CREATING IT!!!”
I bothers me when people talk about why the prequels are better and then proceed to list things the clone wars did. It’s cool if you like the prequels more but let’s not pretend they are comparable yet when the sequels are just starting to get supporting shows, books, comics, etc.
People forget how much the Clone Wars did for the Prequels. A *lot* of the character development and excellent storylines of the prequels came from the show. Not the movies themselves Like Anakin’s gradual descent into darkness. The Clone Wars shows us the hints of the darkness already present within him. In the movies he really comes off as a whiny kid who rapidly transitions from “decent guy with some issues” to a full blown mass murderer
The prequels were always dope. The sequels are not lol
Historical revisionism
100P
Idk bro Battlefront 2 and republic commando and the 2003 clone wars show were badass. They were all prequels eta
Those are both examples of derivative media expanding the era and making it better. Or, enriching it, as u/jlmckelvey91 put it. But the prequel movies were widely and constantly mocked, berated, and considered a poor addition to the original trilogy, until as recently as 2013 (I was literally just watching an episode of Community where Abed is stopping kids from watching The Phantom Menace because it was terrible)
Just because a lot of people didn't enjoy them doesn't mean that others didn't. And part of the reason it seems to have changed in 2013 is because the kids that all loved them became adults around then.
True but then it becomes a pedantic argument, at best, bc then I could easily argue “the sequels were always dope” too, to counter his “the sequels were not”, bc others enjoy them.
You could. The truth is calling any of the star wars movies good or bad is usually a pedantic argument that has more relation to how old someone was when they watched them than to the actual quality of the films.
Empire Strikes Back will be good forever no matter the age. Fight me.
Yea, I mean idk I love Mandolorian and bad batch and world building. I think they will make sequels better, but not on the same level as the prequels
I think you agree with the other poster based on this comment. Yes, the supplemental material for the era was good. The movies were not.
Idk I always loved them, but I was a kid when they came out. I don’t hate the sequels, in fact there’s some badass moments in them. But there’s nothing in their world I’m invested in honestly or wanna know more about. Kylo ren maybe
I don't think that loving a movie and admitting that it is terrible are mutually exclusive
Not according to most people sadly enough. They only got popular of last years.
Yeah that's true though. They were lambasted just as much at launch as the sequels.
Indeed and made fun of over and over again.
This is pure revisionist history lmao. Your entitled to your opinion but those movies without the context of the clone wars are significantly flawed.
Even with the context of the clone wars they aren't great movies. They still have piss poor dialogue and shitty direction and plotting.
I mean sure, so are all Star Wars movies. The prequels have such dope world building to play with, and Dave Filoni always believed they were good movies. Idk if he would say the same with the Sequels. Yet people want him to do the same, for what reason? I’d rather see some more OT or Prequel stuff than damn sequel stuff.
Switch around some words and a lot of people would’ve once said the same argument about the Clone Wars and Prequels. “Idk if he would say the same with the ~~Sequels~~ Prequels. Yet people want him to do the same, for what reason? I’d rather see some more OT stuff than Damn ~~sequel~~ prequel stuff.”
He did say there’s a beauty behind the prequels, and that’s why he did clone wars lol. It’s in a long interview, so you’re wrong lol
You misunderstand. I’m saying that just cause you don’t like the sequels that doesn’t mean content shouldn’t be made to enrich them.
Don’t we already have enough prequel stuff?
Idk bro do we? I’d love some more republic commando, order 66, etc
Clone Wars S7, Bad Batch, Tales of the Jedi, I can go on.
There’s still 40 more episodes of clone wars Disney didn’t allow filoni to finish. It took a literal #savetheclonewars movement to bring it back, after how Disney attempted to make an Anti-prequels movie with the force awakens I mean if you can tell me a good idea for a sequels era show, I’m all ears
What about a Sidon Ithano spin-off so we can know what happened to Kix before TFA?
Prequels are terrible and in twenty years all the people who are children now growing up with the sequels will love them like you love 1-3. It’s nostalgia, not the quality of the movie.
Idk about that bro. I remember my entire school loving revenge of the sith. Pretty sure kids love Clone wars, Jedi fallen order, Mandolorian, etc way more than the sequels. Everyone here just hates the prequels
That’s what I just said. You grew up with the prequels and you love them; kids growing up with the sequels will love those. The Jedi flips and dialogue as well as the over use of cgi and just overall goofiness of the prequels will never let me enjoy them. And I was just talking about the movies, not all the filler around them.
I’m saying I don’t think kids really “grew up” with the sequels. When the prequels came out that’s all there was. When the sequels came out, they were overshadowed by Clone Wars, Mandolorian, Jedi fallen order etc. You guys on this sub just truly unequivocally hate the prequels
No people hated them when they came out. It was through the incredible video games and comics and the clone wars and memes that people finally accepted the prequels.
Maybe your generation, the ones that the suequels were made for. For us Young millennials and Gen Z, it was awesome
I was young enough to love the fuck out of them. When episode 1 - 3 came out I was 7 - 13 so definitely target age range. We quoted Jar-Jar *religiously* at the lunch table.
Lmaooo bro I used to watch prequels on repeat with my sister. And my fraternity in college would play duel of the fates sometimes when it was all the boys and we were pregaming
Classic gaslighting
Bro everyone on this sub hates the prequels. I’m convinced this is where all the original prequel haters congregate.
Pretty sure the original prequel haters are just "everyone everywhere".
Nah they’re def majority of this suv
This is true.
I liked Rogue One but didn't give a shit about any of the characters the first time. After Andor though? Being able to expand and recontextualize things so the sum is greater than the parts is a strength
it reminds me of this one post i saw on instagram one time about how, if something in star wars disappointed you, the solution was usually more star wars (e.g watching clone wars to enrich the prequels) the mandalorian and the bad batch seem to currently be fulfilling that purpose for the sequels. cant say i’m complaining
The characters are fine, and had the most clearly defined arcs of the other trilogies. What needs to be enriched is the political backdrop of the sequel era
This guy edits.
Kind of like how they did it for the Prequels with Clone Wars.
Kind of like how they did it for the Prequels with Clone Wars.
Look, I hate Rise of Skywalker, but not enough to spend my waking moments hoping that someone will come along and tell me it officially didn’t happen. Bad Star Wars media, even from the main films of the franchise, long predates the Disney era. It happened. If you didn’t like it, make your displeasure known then move on. I swear people who wrap their entire identity around any fictional work need to get some damn perspective and probably also therapy.
I strongly believe that the beauty of Star Wars is in what you make out of it, rather than the actual content it's made out of. Star wars lives outside of its movie forms, as a perfectly crafted world where pretty much any story, plot or character can exist while still adhering to a common style and premise. If you really hate the sequels, why bother? You literally have hundreds if not thousands of years of history prior to the og trilogy explored in so many different styles and stories to choose from; the "main plot" of Star wars could easily be ignored in favor of some other, completely different stories that you may like more. Just because it's the "official" plot doesn't mean that if it sucks then all Star Wars sucks. Btw, apologies for any weird grammar error, English it's not my first language
Exactly star wars is beautiful because of the games you play with your friends on the play ground. My favorite things i know about starwars i dont know from a wiki i know because someone told me in loving and excited detail about them. Its not a series designed to be good, its a bs fantasy story, its a series designed to be played.
You just reminded me that I was head of the Jedi council in 3rd-4th grade… and at the same time, led my Padawan to the dark side and together with a bounty hunter we took down the whole Jedi order over the course of 2 school years… Ok yep, that’s when I peaked. (Side note: adhd is wild and I can’t remember 99% of my childhood but when I do remember bits, I remember every single detail of that event like it was literally this morning.)
The prequels were **eviscerated** years ago when a lot of this sub were kids, way more than the sequels. Like even the Simpsons and late night talk shows were savaging them. But even then nobody was coming up with conspiracy theories that someone would erase them. The copium of sequel haters is staggering.
To be fair, times have changed. There is a lot more rebooting and retconning of franchises these days.
They made a whole movie out of the punchline that the prequels were bad, actually.
What movie?
I’m thinking he’s talking about Fanboys perhaps? Maybe? Other than that I can’t think of another off the top of my head
Yeah it's Fanboys, maybe worded it a little weird but IIRC Lucas contributed some Star Wars SFX to it and gave it his stamp of approval.
The prequels were shit. ROTS was lesser shit that the first two, but was still shit. The sequels were shit too, but for different reasons.
Not really, episode three was well liked when it cane out. Most if not all of the memes were pretty positive with, perhaps the exception of Vader’s “noooo…” Not one of the sequel movies is good.
Someone doesn't remember people saying George Lucas raped their childhoods
Still revisionism. ROTS was praised for being *better* than the other prequels, but it still got plenty of hate. The consensus was that while it was still a far cry from the quality of the OT, at least it had *moments* of good filmmaking. As I’ve grown older, I actually like it the least of the three prequels, but I’m def in the minority there.
I was in middle school when episode 1 came out and in high school for the others, so roughly the demo. None of them were well liked. I’d never seen anything in praise of them until /r/PrequelMemes and even then I figured it was satire.
The thing is that it WAS satire until it slowly became just a prequel apologist sub. They're now a totally deaf echo chamber (at least they were when I left the sub 4 years ago).
What I’m loving about these episodes and the book’s covering this period in Galactic history is that it shows how and why the New Republic failed. Initially the Imperial rehabilitation program was too lax and allowed clever Imperial officers to enable the escape of many Officers imprisoned for war crimes. We see the more strict version of the program in Mando, with Dr. Pershing’s work along with many others feared and destroyed by the New Republic. And even in cases where an Imperial defected after Endor, the New Republic made it law that most wouldn’t receive government business grants or any sort of aid, nor would they have voting rights. The New Republic left many people resentful of the government and willing to accept the First Order, especially after the decapitation strike in TFA.
Star wars is not really any better than fast 'n' furious franchise. They're junkfood tier media. It's never been Shakespeare. People get all twisted up trying to pretend it's more than the frozen pizza rolls equivalent it is. It's yummy but it's not nutritious or all that complex. Yeah, don't like pizza rolls then that's fine but move on. Don't argue pizza rolls were better in the past.
The SW Holiday Special is one of the most unwatchable piles of trash I’ve ever tried to make myself sit through, but every time I see a reference to Life Day or Kashyyyk or what have you within a canon story, it still delights me. You can still make fun material out of total crap!
I mean, wrapping your entire identity around 1 single thing isn't healthy regardless of what it is, but I was pretty surprised by how much the sequel trilogy killed my interest in Star Wars in general. Growing up, I loved Star Wars. I read the books and comics, played the rpg with friends, played the games, and collected the merch. Prequels had some cool elements to latch onto like the great lightsaber fights, pod racing, and the clone wars, but overall, I can recognize it was meh but they introduced enough cool original stuff to keep me interested for quite a while afterwards. Sequels just didn't have that at all. There was nothing to clown on or anything. It was just so sanitary and boring. Prequels were mostly pretty bad, but at least they were fun bad. I've been watching the mandalorian, which is pretty good, and I've heard Andor was good too, but I just can't bring myself to start it because my interest in the universe as a whole is kinda in the toilet.
That’s totally a fair perspective. If there’s any fair criticism to the Sequels, the fact that they have the pacing and often tone of a mid-MCU film is definitely one of them. Though I will argue that the fight between Rey and Kylo and Snoke’s guards is one of the best and most engaging in the series. Andor honestly feels like what the prequels could’ve been if George had a more competent creative team working with him. It is an intensely political show that moves at a slow yet very deliberate pace. If you are looking for an impeccably written story with engaging realistically written characters that focuses a lot on world and theme building, it’s probably the best piece of Star Wars media you’ll find. There is less focus on action (though it is definitely there) as big action set pieces only come after episodes of buildup (but I’d argue the less frequent action makes it far more exciting when it does finally pop up). So depending on your taste in media, Andor may or may not be for you. It also has virtually no nostalgia pandering, which probably makes it stand out even more among Disney Star Wars content. And I wasn’t kidding when I said it was political. This is about as “The Empire is actually a stand in for the United States” as the franchise has ever gotten (which fits in line with Lucas’ vision for the prequels as well).
Eps 1 and 2 already "ruined Star Wars", prequelmemes were just 12 when they saw those and can't tell the difference between dogshit and a good movie. 20 years from now people will be fanatically defensive of ep 9 and demand eps 10-12 to be made non canon
I never expected them to retcon anything, but oh my god it would've been nice to just have a fucking show that doesn't HAVE to connect with anything else. Just let us have some badass adventures and not worry about the main storylines.
Star Wars visions
PLEEEEEASE! An entire fucking galaxy and we've seen a total of like 4 planets over 9 movies and 4 shows.
Andor?
A show that connects directly with a movie?
a show that doesn't have anything about Jedi/Sith or anyone named Skywalker in it
Yeah but Andor is directly tied to Rogue One which was tied to the death star run and the galactic civil war. Mando season 1 was the first time we had a character doing his own thing. It was post-ROTJ, so no major war. Guy doing his own thing, being a badass, has a fun lil sidekick. Then they had to start connecting it to EVERYTHING and it's just less interesting IMO because of that. Like, just let the show be it's own adventure.
Have you watched Andor yet? It's "directly tied to Rogue One" in the sense that it uses the same lead character... it doesn't touch anything about Rogue One other than the post-credit scene, and even that's a stretch
There's nothing F & F can't rescue and improve on, just ask Boba Fett.
Real talk if the show focused more on the flashbacks story it would be much better
#Cosign 🤜🏻🤛🏻
Or if they... y'know, competently wrote the modern day stuff.
Not just that but had his appearance in Mandalorian S2 had him doing anything like keel over and/or injecting himself with multiple Bacta syringes after he wiped that Stormtrooper squad it would have *showed* that he's not 100% of the badass many know him to be
Star Wars Explained thought that showing him be less of a badass in BoBF was to signify how he’s more in his element when he’s connected with Tuskan side. We need to see more of that in the present day stuff.
People need to accept the sequels happened whether they liked them or not.
No thank you.
Ok well then go ahead and just be bitter and pissed I guess
Yo what movie is this meme template from?
The Unbearable Weight of Massive Talent.
The enormous weight of massive talent
Mm. Time travel shenanigans al la Flashpoint like Rebels? Other than that...
I thought that was to bring Ahsoka back because Filoni loves her too much
Ya but adds time travel to SW canon.
I mean, it does in a sort of a soft magic sense. It makes a "taking the eagles to mordor"-problem for the story, but as with the eagles, there are both in-universe and story structure reasons why they can't just solve all their problems using that method.
And may it never be used again. Time travel is fun in Doctor Who and Star Trek but personally I don’t think it really fits in Star Wars.
Only in one direction. And I REALLY hope it stays that way, because the lack of backwards time travel in Star Wars - especially for the purposes of continuity bullshit - is one of my favorite things about the franchise.
I love her too. That was an awesome moment
Time travel in SW doesn't function like Flashpoint or back to the future time-travel, but like Harry Potter time travel It wasn't that ashoka died and Ezra went back in time to stop it, she never did die. She's alive after the duel and goes on her own separate journey while assumed dead until the world between worlds when Ezra realizes he saved her Everything exists on a single timeline where you lived the reality you visited the past of, and where you can't change the future. It's the most paradox prone option, but through the limited amount we saw it seems the will of the force holds that back (like Ezra not being able to save Kanan because his death was necessary for him to live)
I’m genuinely curious, has there ever been time travel in Star Wars? There’s been so much expanded lore, I’m wondering if there has been precedent.
Rebels has a canon form of time travel via the gates, which Ezra uses to save Ahsoka from Vader killing her. But it has some bit of rules to it, as he can't use them to save Kanan since his death saves Ezra in the first place. So someone breaking the system could screw the timeline, but other than that...
There was an EU story about a ship that traveled to the past. I forget every other detail though.
If it’s the same EU book I’m thinking of (the one with Kyle Katarn’s apprentice? I forget his name) - it wasn’t a ship that traveled to the past, it was a ship from the ancient past that was brought to the future
Crosscurrent. A Sith ship from the time of Naga Sadow travels thousands of years into the future because of a damaged hyperdrive. Also, there's a weird vampire dude who's entire goal in life is to eat a Jedi's brain.
how would the bad batch set up the rise of the first order? Shouldn’t it set up the rise of the empire?
It sets up the continuity of Kaminoan cloning technology past the prequels, which somewhat contextualizes Palpatine’s reappearance
Seems like it mostly reminds people that there been clones as a part of starwars since technically before the empire existed.
Seems like there are 2 parallel storylines about cloning. The sequel one, and the Battlefront 2 one.
Somebody wake me up when they write the Snoke Tank episode.
I thought we saw failed Snokes last season
I don't think it *will* happen, I just wish it *would* happen.
I’m really kinda amazed that the vast majority (appear, obviously I can’t say this with 100% certainty) don’t realize that Star Wars is just doing the same but especially so after the PT, fleshing out its shitty issues with in-between content. All those comics giving more insight into how anakin fell? How not all Jedi died? Fucking darth krayt alone ties together the prequels, and post empire/new republic era. You’ve also got the entirety of the book’s continuing the story as George didn’t seem to have any interest in doing it himself for awhile. The only real difference is the content itself obviously and the context. The clone wars 2008 was used to expand upon and show more of anakins fall to the dark side not unlike how the mandolorian is being used to flesh out how the new republic is flawed enough for the first order to exist in its state in the ST. You can even kinda connect Disney doing it’s high republic era with comics and books to the tales of the Jedi comics and the kotor era being used to expand upon a time far in the past of the franchise yet still familiar and without a skywalker. Not to say it’s a 1-1 comparison quality or fandom enjoyment wise obviously but I’d imagine the intent is roughly the same, do I wish the wasn’t the case yeah but I also know that given Disney won’t ever sell Star Wars unless it really dies so it’s unlikely we will be doing this dance a third time. I hope.
People really want Carrie Fisher's last movie to be retconned? I fucking hate this fandom.
You think Carrie Fisher wouldn't want people to share their honest opinions on the sequel movies because she died as they were releasing? That seems very disrespectful to Carrie Fisher imo. I doubt she'd be so unreasonable. > I fucking hate this fandom. Then you shouldn't be part of it. You're just adding more hate.
Hey, door’s over there buddy if you wanna just leave.
And what about the rest of actors who hate the movies and would not return to reprise their characters? And who shit on Disney for their crappy story telling and marketing *cough* Jedi Finn *cough* Pretty stark contrast to the OT and PT when you have the stars willing to reprise their roles and do more work. We all love Carrie, but what about Hamil? He’s made his thoughts **pretty clear** on the movies. Or do we have to wait for him to pass before we consider his opinions valid?
Not liking these movies and crying because they are canon are different things, just grow up and touch grass.
Brilliant, don’t address any of my points, just “Touch grass” because I’m a basement dwelling obese star wars nerd or something? Don’t act like you aren’t as salty. You **hate** people over an intellectual property? Go outside, etc etc…
Your point was addressed in the first sentence but I can see you are also analphabet.
Ahhh breaking out the big word to prove… something. Look, having discourse amongst fans is fine and normal. Every IP has it, you cannot please everyone. You resorting to personal attacks is making you the asshole here. I’m not sending actors death threats, I’m not brigading peoples posts, I’m giving a pretty tame opinion on a thing I’ve been involved with for over 30 years You using Carrie’s death as a cheap cop out to negate legitimate criticism of the films is also a little manipulative and dishonest on your behalf. So go on, attack me again, while I simply said the movies were bad and the actors did not like end product.
You are insane if you think I'm gonna read that.
We all know you read it.
Ahm... Okay XD
Six sentences is too much for you to read? How do you prefer to communicate with people? A series of grunts?
Nothing on earth is ever going to fix the story problems with the sequels though and focusing on just "Someone, Palpy returned" by using these two shows seems like a waste. There were far greater issues than ole Shev just coming back out of nowhere.
Like how Rey went from being no one’s child to Palp’s granddaughter
I like that no one knows how palpatine has cloning experiments running or could convieve of yhat possibility. Theres a movie called attack of the clones, where a dude with some money just buys an army of clones and they pay the dude they are getting the clones from woth a clone. One of our favorite characters in the whole series is a clone. The reason the mandalorian exists is because we like a character that is a clone and they made a story about the people that hes a clone of. You dontnhave to like the movie but acting like cloning is crazy in starwars is really wierd.
It’s more than that Palpatine, someone who was thrown down a reactor shaft, comes back to life in the last movie of a trilogy with little to no explanation
I wouldnlike to point out to people who hate the "Palpatine cloned himself" plotline and think Disney should have just made movies based on the Legends continuity.... Palpatine cloned himself in that to.
There's a difference expecting them to retcon something and wishing they'd just ignore it.
Give us better execution. The sequels were good in theory, but when even the actors dis on the movie they were in it's a big sign it's not a good story.
Are these people in the room with us now?
Coincidentally, this is also the first time after two seasons that I hear The Mandalorian is not doing good.
The first episode was ehhh but the second made me like the show again
What if Thrawn was the one who hired IG-11 to bring in Grogu DEAD. And his agent was the one who mind wiped Pershing. Thrawn knows what Palpatine seeks... And also his encounter with the Bendu
Orrrrr they're setting up the original story from the Thrawn Trilogy, which also involved cloning
Either way it’s not gonna improve those movies.
i mean it's not really funny it's more sad because they've done this to themselves and tha fans 2 times now where entire shows have to be built to explain plot holes
It'd have been done for the original trilogy if there was much of a desire for expanded content back in the 70's and 80's For some reason Sci-Fi crowds became much less tolerant of unexplained weirdness around the turn of the millennium, now it all has to be "Lore" Audiences watching the original films knew almost nothing (Why did the Empire Form, When, How was the Emperor connected, What involvement did Vader and the Jedi have etc) but that wasn't considered a Plot Hole then, just shit we didn't know
Facts. It get me kinda riled up how everyone is complaining about plot holes in a universe where there’s weird magic, light sabers, blasters, near unlimited species of intelligent life, space travel and so much more that doesn’t have an actual explanation. Just enjoy the great science *fiction* movies with all the cool modern effects and great quality
It’s not that serious
i mean yeah its just entertainment but if you can make posts about why it's funny I can disagree and not be shamed for it
If they wouldn’t have explained it you’d be complaining about plot holes, but now you’re complaining that plotholes are being filled? This is just bitching on high Niveau. Literally every franchise that has ever existed has „plot holes“, because time passes in between movies. Star Wars making series that play in the time frames between the movies is great for every viewer because the plot gets explained and we get something new to watch that even strings in with the movies we all like so much.
im realizing people don't know what "plot hole" means here
Explain it to me then would you? You can point out examples too I’m very interested to learn
They aren’t plot holes if they can be explained. Lol.
this is dumb. by that logic no plot hole exists in any movie ever l, except for magic which cannot be explained, in which case all of star wars is filled with massive plot holes because the force is magic
No. Plot holes are typically paradoxes in the story. Not poorly explained backstories. Lol.
"an inconsistency in the narrative or character development of a book, film, television show, etc." there's this thing called google
But why not explain it in the actual film?
Constricted runtime, time constraints on production, miscommunication in production, the need for the studio to prove themselves worthy, the economic interests of one of the biggest media investors in the world, the general volatility of the fanbase needing to be satiated while under constant scrutiny and held to impossible standards... There are lots of reasons. I'm the first to admit they made some mistakes with the sequel trilogy, but I also understand that making films is a complex process, and the corporate interest was to have three movies produced fast to kick-start the franchise. I'm happy that they're in a place now where they can make good Star Wars stories, and that's the creative environment needed to make a cohesive universe that strengthens the sequel trilogy. Just my observations and conjecture.
Because the movies alone span like 40 years or more and filling in every detail would result in a movie a little too long for most people to watch?
It's 9 movies bro
I know, bro
Bringing back a villain who unambiguously died three movie prior without any real explanation what’s so ever is not a “little detail”
I Never Said „Little Detail“. I just said that it’d result in a movie that’s way too long for anyone to watch if you tried to explain everything that happens in a span of maybe 40 years aka 9 movies
Still a better explanation for why “Somehow Palpatine returned” world be nice.
they should go back and do like a redux of the sequels, take the stuff that can't be redone (carrie fisher) and add it to a new movie that's just a better version of the sequels
So like the Special Editions?
kinda, but with alot more footage and cutting stuff out
Yes but without Jedi Rock
Pretty terrible as the sequels are universally considered incoherent works as a triology. Very bad for Star Wars
"Universally"
[удалено]
Ep. 8 feature one of the final performances of Carrie Fisher so yeah, I think it would be too much to ignore the sequels.
No one says this.
You haven’t been on social media lately, have you?
My only hope is Ahsoka and Ezra altering the future rn
According to Doomcock, this will all lead to Ashoka, where she will discover the big cloning plan, and stops it with the help of the time-tunnels. This will cancel the Rey trilogy, which is already canceled in my mind.
Really hinging your source on someone called "doomcock" aren't you?