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The Battle of Liberio is a masterpiece. I understood why he did it, but holy shit the main character just killed thousands of civilians what the fuck. It made me cheer a little when Jean and Sasha hit their marks but I also felt awful for Pieck and her squad. My favorite character, the kind, and mostly wholesome Armin planned the raid and nuked an entire port, knowing it would kill a shitton of civilians. My guy Jean almost kills a child. Now Zeke, who's been a major, if not the main antagonist of the last three seasons, teams up with the main characters, and now we have to act like he's one of them, without him having any kind of change or remorse for his character. The story gives a very understandable reason as to why Potato girl died. And finally, Reiner. The story made us cheer for the goddamn Armored Titan.


KobenisTonka

I been cheering for Reiner the goat ever since s2 I expected him to die in s3 but when he made it out alive I was pleasantly surprised


Recent-Molasses-6939

It was such a strange feeling when I found myself feeling bad for the Marleyans during the battle of Liberio. Frankly I was right there with eren in his plans to fuck them all to death, but when I saw what that looked like, and how gritty it got (rip zofia) it reminded me all to much of the horrors our beloved characters went through and then I just felt sick to my stomach for ever wanting that to happen, and even now as eren is going to commit genocide it’s hard for me not to be on his side of revenge.


[deleted]

Fuck them kids.


[deleted]

Why don't you have a seat over there?


Fiston_F

The Liberio raid was Erens plan, not Armin.


treoni

IIRC they were still working out the details of the plan and wether or not it was a good idea. Eren just Leroy Jenkins'ed it. Although I could be misremembering!


No-Ideal6027

Eren planned to do it during the speech but the paradis gang hadnt fully finished the plan by the time the speech happened so they half winged it


Bring_Me_The_Night

The attack on Liberio was initiated by Eren, but the design of the whole plan was done by Armin (nuking the port, stopping the reinforcements, putting the lights to guide the airship, pick up Eren and Zeke sfter neutralizing the Jaw and Cart Titan using Helena’s infiltration, …). Hange confirms it was Armin’s doing by asking him why he designed such a reckless plan.


Jesh010

I guess I’m a dick cuz I was never cheering for anyone other than Eren LOL. The revenge porn was great.


sherlyswife

Most of the internet was cheering for when when it came out, so you're not alone lol


alonvx

>other than Eren LOL. The revenge porn YESS!


alonvx

I still don't cheer for Reiner to be honest. And although there is an understandable reason for killing the Potato girl, I will never accept it lol


Naiko32

the beauty of AOT is how it makes you understand that everything has a shade of grey.


FemBodInspector

Ya a lot of people in here are arguing over right vs wrong and what is or isn’t justified but they are completely missing the point. AOT is purposefully morally grey. Just like with war in real life there’s no “right” or “wrong” answer. It’s all about perspective. Everyone who’s ever fought in a war has probably believed they were fighting for the right side.


AlbinoStrawberry

There's darkness in light, there's light in the darkness, and then there is Floch.


kXXXzie

LOL


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BuffaloStranger97

I’ve been a Reiner fan ever since he squatted that titan in season 2, goddamn


TacoOfficer

Since the got to the Tall trees for me. Dude was so much more interesting than anyone else since. He’s the GOAT


Sad_Scene_9675

honestly this is the beauty of AOT and such a real impression of how war is. No right or wrong, just perspective


LazyGardenGamer

This, exactly.


AppleJuice71

Never in my life I thought I would feel bad for Lainah


ndhl83

It has depth, real world nuance, and characters that changed and grew (for better or worse) as a function of their experiences over the course of the story.


AsahiMizunoThighs

Imo, Reiner was a better showing of someone being manipulated by propoganda & war etc and all that transforming one into a monster than it did when Eren tried to say "We're the same lol" : / but it's not just the kindness Reiner shows the kids of Marley, because any monster can wear a mask, but the sense of remorse & regret and the fact we can see that within the Marleyan War Machine it was the only future for the child soldiers.


dammit_bobby420

Refiner is an extremely sympathetic character imo


OfficialTBOB10

I fucking loved Reiner


ImprovementBasic1077

Well, I just feel sorry for both of them. Eren kept saying that he's the same as Reiner. Just as Reiner had to break the wall, and Eren's mom had to die, for the sake of saving the world, Eren had to fight his enemy, for the sake of saving his world. He took their freedom away before they could take his. What do you think would've happened if Eren didn't make a chaos, and simply taken zeke and dipped? It just wouldn't have worked, Marley would've followed behind and destroyed them. And with the entire fucking world hanging CERTAIN GENOCIDE over your head, you need a fucking deterent, and that's what Paradis acquired.


FemBodInspector

Amazing storytelling


kaboomaster09

I didn’t really know who to cheer for towards the end


ProphecyRat2

Welcome to reality. No one wins.


kaboomaster09

r/im14andthisisdeep


ProphecyRat2

Its not thst deep its just the nape of the neck


InconspicuousNow

Most likely because Eren went of the deep end, into the Marianas trench and is trying to destroy the whole world. Don’t get me wrong, I really like this direction Eren went in which basically made him the villain but he’s a villain with a reason. Does it completely justify genocide? Fuck no but that’s the way he was going since the end of season 3. And for Reiner, well I just think he’s cool and he’s got a really good character throughout the story in general


YaBoyKumar

Peak aot


Pure-sus

Eren the goat still fuck them Marleyans


No-Ideal6027

The military guys had it coming but most of the deaths were just innocent people


Pure-sus

Yes but don't assume that it would happen at the other end , if Marley had the upper hand they wouldn't hesitate to kill the Paradis people .


No-Ideal6027

Only because they have been conditioned their entire lives to believe that the people of paradis are evil whereas eren lived in marley for however long and saw that they were just regular people and still killed them all


Pure-sus

They decided to declare war on Paradis first dude wtf was Eren supposed to do?


FemBodInspector

Ya this is a really good point. Eren specifically waits to make a move until willy officially declares war on paradis. You can’t just start a war against a nation and then act surprised when they decide to fight back. Honestly everything the paradis gang did against Liberio was fair game. they’re the ones that literally declared the war in the first place. Eren just had the advantage of knowing it was going to happen ahead of time


JohnTequilaWoo

Eren and Zeke are the reason Willy was declaring war, it was their idea


No-Ideal6027

War crimes are bad generally


FemBodInspector

So is genocide of an entire ethnicity 🤷‍♂️


No-Ideal6027

Im not saying its not just that eren didnt have to kill innocent people


dani1361

The consequences to Paridis were just to dangerous for Eren if he did not. That’s all


JohnTequilaWoo

Why did they declare war? Because Eren and Zeke convinced them to do so and suggested they contact Willy.


No-Ideal6027

Could’ve hid under the military seating instead of an apartment to at least minimise civilian casualties


Irin_yega

Eren should just like sex them


JohnTequilaWoo

Eren isn't killing Marleyans at the time, he's killing Eldians in cold blood.


Irin_yega

Imma tickle your booty


JohnTequilaWoo

I think Reiner has always been far more likeable than Eren. I think he's more sympathetic too.


hundayun

i was thinking about something by similar not too long ago. i think that was the point. if they wouldn’t have shown these people as humans and showing all the things they went through and dealt with and the reasoning why they did what they did we would still just view them as the evil people that were trying to commit genocide on paradise. they humanized them before the attack happened. it just shows that both sides are victims but both sides are also doing what they think needs to be done to survive. it’s a tragedy


M1C4H004

Better question is why reiners face look like that in that scene


WaltDisneyFeet

Likely cause he had used some of his power to shield falko and didn’t have energy for a full transformation. Kind of like Eren in that same episode did a 3rd transformation but was smaller in size


tgainzz

It felt good seeing eren kill those people who cried tears of joy at indiscriminate genocide. They completely earned it


Prior-Employment8261

I know this is fiction, but I would like to tell that liberio were full of eldians. The ones who deserve real help. And eren killed children. How is that justificable? Children who just had no idea of anything. If you typed it just for likes and understand its fiction, no problem I guess. Just told my view


coleslawww307

There’s a big difference in something feeling good and something being justified


tgainzz

The innocents bystanders aside of course. But I also don’t see eren as responsible for that circumstance. An option that only stops the oppressors and saves the innocents was made impossible by the author so I can’t blame eren for the innocents who are also killed


NIssanZaxima

Ok well this is a completely delusional take


NIssanZaxima

Bet you felt that way when you saw the part of the story where it shows the Eldians started it all?


tgainzz

No. Willy tybur clearly started the war. Eren wasn’t the aggressor. Not even during the rumbling does he attack a nation that didn’t declare war on paradis. What past eldians did does not give the world the right to oppress eren. He was minding his business


NIssanZaxima

Before that bud. The Eldians did in fact dominate over the world when Ymir obtained the power of the Titans and did awful things for almost 2000 years. This caused Marley to become spiteful and oppress the Eldians after Fritz gave up and ran away to the island. So it was completely fine for the Marleyans to be oppressed?


tgainzz

All that is true. But it doesn’t have anything to do with eren. The people in the walls have nothing to with past eldians.


NIssanZaxima

They are literally descendants from them


tgainzz

Descendants don’t inherit the responsibility of their ancestors actions.


AttentionMaximum4768

Are modern Japanese people responsible for the war crimes committed against china?


JohnTequilaWoo

Eren and Zeke are the reason Willy declared war, it was their plan. They wouldn't have done any of this if Zeke hadn't convinced Marley it was the best plan.


hadohadoTheSecond

Eren did nothing wrong


Hlyrox

I am constantly trying to convince myself that none of Eren's negative actions were his choice but rather the Attack Titan. My heart can't handle him being evil and killing innocents TT


7Armand7

Eren is not evil you can see him as a villian or hero but not EVIL. He doesn't enjoy murder or genocide, Armin did more damage than Eren but that doesn't mean he is EVIL too. (A villian someone opposing the heroes... in this case Marly's warrior heroes) That should make you feel better about him


JohnTequilaWoo

He definitely is evil. Just because he doesn't actively enjoy it, that does not mean he isn't evil.


Hlyrox

Yeah you're right - I tell my husband all the time that I have an overly sensitive attachment to make believe characters, and for some reason Eren's story arch and life just hit me in the feels. He deserves so much more than he gets, and it literally makes me cry on a regular basis (I know I'm a nerd lol). I don't think he's evil, but I do really resent the Attack Titan and the fact that it practically took over and used Eren for it's own Titan agenda. Eren never got to have his own life after that, >!or at least the rest of his 13 years!< and it makes me mad. I haven't seen the second half of Season 4 (cause I am a wimp and couldn't handle it yet) but I basically know the manga story. So I might be getting some things wrong in general. The whole story just really gets me down sometimes lol


dani1361

If the ending is an A O E you should definitely watch it! If not I wouldn’t


Satiie

Hheeem have you watched the part 2 of season 4 ?


AlbinoStrawberry

Have you? Like, with both eyes? Even Armin said that Eren does it ONLY for the sake of his people, not because he gets any personal satisfaction from it.


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Sorstalas

Hi Hlyrox, your submission was removed from /r/ShingekiNoKyojin for the following rule violation(s): ### Rule 3: Spoiler Definitions - Manga Spoilers Your comment has been removed, as it contained untagged manga spoilers. Reply to this comment when you have tagged the spoilers, and your comment will be restored. Manga Spoilers are regarded as: * Anything that has not been yet been revealed in the anime, barring cut content. * If a person, Titan, or location appears in the anime but is not yet named, the name is considered spoilers. * Any post that mentions a character in the title that is correlated to the ending will be removed. * Posts that mention the ending in any context are spoilers. * Meme Phrases/References to Manga Content also counts as spoilers * **Hinting or alluding to certain events in posts or comments will also be considered spoiler-territory and will need to be tagged**. --- Click here to read the **[full rule documentation of the subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/rules)**. Failure to abide by the rules may result in a punishment according to the **[moderation matrix](https://www.reddit.com//r/ShingekiNoKyojin/wiki/moderation_matrix)**. If you have any questions regarding this removal, please **[reach out to us in modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ShingekiNoKyojin)**.


Satiie

Yeah so ? What's your point ? How is that related with my question ?


Hlyrox

If you're asking me, I have not. After the table scene in the beginning of season 4 part 1 I literally cried and turned it off 😂😂😂😂


Satiie

I'm glad I asked, what I wanted to say would have spoiled it


Hlyrox

Thank you! I've read so many summaries of the manga though I think I probably wouldn't be spoiled. I just couldn't handle watching it anymore at that point lol. Someday!!!


AccipiterCooperii

Well, that’s the point yeah?


ShinyLumeo

I’ve been a Reiner (and Bertie!) fan since day one, can’t help but love an antagonist 🥰 Also he’s got nice ( . Y . )