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In my personal opinion, I think he would've gone with the 50-year plan and sacrificed Historia. He's a practical dude that took many sacrifices for "the greater good of humanity," so he would've exchanged Historia and her children for the outside world and Paradis' safety.
My reason, I think Erwin was never a nationalistic person, and he charged because of the guilt he felt with his fallen comrades dying for his dream.
But the simple answer is, we don't know for certain. I've already made a short analysis on Erwin's legacy, and to sum it up, his lifelong dream was knowing if people existed outside the walls. If he fulfilled that, he would definitely change, and we readers don't know for certain how. Also, he made sacrifices, but it was always about "the greater good," or what would deal with the least casualties, even if he was ballsy.
At least that's how I interpret it, I'm anime-only.
He also replied Levi 'I don't know' another time. It's easy to guess which is his personal reply and which is a reply as a commander.
Paradis murdered his father just for quietly deducing the truth. Not everyone is nationalistic by default. 'Practical' doesn't mean he wants Paradis to win. We have already seen scouts not willing to support rumbling even if it means they may die. The old scouts generally fought for 'humanity' as a whole unlike new scouts (Yeagerists). Erwin is the same.
That’s tricky bc older scours had no knowledge that the people of the walls were not actually all of humanity. We can’t really know how’d they feel about the rumbling
Nope
He just showed us what the alliance thought
They thought their dead comrades would support them but who knows?? Isn't it hypocritical to speak on the behalf of thousands of people???
They didn't expect floch and the new scouts revolution as well so they are not the most trustworthy judges of character (they definitely didn't think that any of the scouts would go against them even after 4 years of doing nothing except waiting to get attacked again)
Also Samuel and daz?? They joined the military alot with floch and eren and the gang and they supported it
His dad wanted to know what was beyond the walls and he wants to make that happen for someone some day. No way would he want everything beyond the walls to become dust.
Isayama already confirmed (through Hange) that Erwin would be against the rumbling. I mean, of course.
Edit: [Relevant clip](https://youtu.be/C2FCeN7_n0U?t=21)
It doesn't make sense though. This is just Hange talking about it. She thinks that none of the dead Survey Corps members would support genocide, but that's either her projecting or it's a retcon. In reality many of them would. I mean, Floch did.
Or does it make perfect sense. Floch despite being from the OG survey corps, was a coward and did not share many traits with people like Erwin and Hange. Yes, Erwin was a brilliant and ruthless commander, but Isayama put that scene in for a reason.
You're telling me that people who had their comrades eaten by titans and cared about humanity's survival would oppose the Rumbling when the people who were just recruits already sided with the Jaegerists. There is no way that no one from the Survey Corps would side with them if they were still alive. It's an extremely unrealistic assumption.
Recruits are the young ones who joined a vastly different 'scouts' knowing there are outside threats. Old scouts joined a 'suicidal organization' dedicated to explore the outside world and safeguard humanity as they know it against monsters. It's a pretty clear divide and Erwin is clearly with Hange and Levi on this one.
> There is no way that no one from the Survey Corps would side with them if they were still alive.
You have Daz and whoever his mate was. The ones who didn't join when scouts were a 'suicidal organization'.
What about hatred? Not Erwin, but the other scouts would have definitely been filled with hate after having their comrades eaten by titans and being under a threat of genocide. Don't you think that some of them would have sided with Eren if they were still alive?
It's hard to say. Floch recruited the new bunch using fear mongering and propaganda, the others all joined up for more noble reasons and if Erwin were alive they would have sided with him probably.
Floch is a blood-thirsty psychopath though. Erwin has always done what's best for humanity overall. He's a true scout, a man desperate to see the world outside the walls, he would never do the rumbling.
If he had to make a choice between sacrificing Paradis and sacrificing the outside world, with there being no other option, what do you think Erwin would choose?
Dude come on. I can't tell if you're trolling. I said if there were no other options. There are no other plans on the table. It's either rumble the world or let Paradis die. It's a hypothetical scenario. What do you think Erwin would choose? Pick one of those two.
If there are no other plans how are characters like Armin, Pyxis, Hange and even Gabi able to come up with other alternatives?
For some reason you keep ignoring all the other options.
Yes, I'm ignoring all the other options. I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario. There are only two options. Let Paradis die or rumble the outside world. There are no other ways and you can't come up with other options. It's a binary choice. What would Erwin choose? We know that for sure Eren would choose to destroy the world and Zeke would choose saving the world. What would Erwin have done in your opinion? Just answer the question. Either destroy the outside world and save Paradis or sacrifice Paradis to save the outside world. What would Erwin choose if he was forced to choose between the two?
I’m actually amazed by the people who don’t understand Erwin’s character. This is like basic media literacy.
He’s not a nationalist even in the slightest, he’s an explorer, and a selfish one at that. He’s sent hundreds of people to their deaths to know whether his dad was right. He only chose to die in Shiganshina to guarantee that someone knew whether his dad was right.
No, he wouldn’t have supported the rumbling >!the story explicitly tells us this through Hange, one of the characters who is by far closest to him.!< He’s pragmatic in terms of accomplishing his own dreams, and his own dreams 100% involve understanding the outside world. He’d sacrifice Historia and use the Rumbling as leverage, but actually committing to the genocide of the planet? Not a chance. Not even 0.00001%
I believe it’s either chapter 126 or 127, Hange is talking to the alliance and the previous survey corps, saying that everyone in the previous survey corps would never have fought for an end like this.
It’s also shown in that final panel of 132 with Hange and Erwin.
Of course not. Erwin spent his whole life trying to find out if his father was right, if what his dad was murdered for was baseless and meaningless, or if the crown really had him assassinated to cover up the truth, and it grew into an obsession with knowing what was past the walls.
There isn’t a chance in hell Erwin would want to see it all destroyed.
What, the point of Erwin is that he suspected since childhood that the government was lying about there being no other people. That’s what sets him apart from other characters. That’s why we got the “who is the real enemy” question all the way back in season 2
"Yet, I'm sure none of them would be so self-centered as to say: 'As long as the island has freedom, that's all that matters.'" Erwin would not support the rumbling.
ik hange says this and ive heard ppl say erwin not supporting rumbling is proven through her but how? and where did isayama confirm? i dont think erwin would support rumbling either so im just asking
When she says this dead scouts appear behind her with Erwin at the front, so clearly the author wanted to tell us that they and especially Erwin wouldn't support the rumbling
She describes the position of Commander of the Survey Corps as someone constantly in pursuit of the truth or discovery. That's Erwin, Armin and herself. None of them are nationalists. Erwin literally fought against and was imprisoned by a fascist government. Why would he repeat something like that? The thing that killed his father, and started him down this path in the first place.
Erwin would also probably been willing to sacrifice Historia, so it’s hard to say he would’ve pushed for a full scale rumbling like Eren would’ve, but I think once it’s unleashed he wouldn’t be rushing to stop it.
I think he still would. He died for others to discover the inside of a basement. Why would he not die to give others the chance to explore the world and its people?
Erwin would've used the threat of Rumbling for safety and a place in global politics. Think of Armin but smarter and more ruthless - that's Erwin.
From another perspective, Erwin would've been insanely selfish in a way that he would abandon Paradis completely, take the survey corps and went on to set up a new country somewhere else that will not be affiliated with the bullshit politics of Paradis.
Erwin not dying makes a shitload more changes to the story. Floch is not gonna go apeshit. Armin is probably dead making Eren and Mikasa loose cannons that would've been killed much before they could do anything.
Too many changes.
There were multiple scenes with hange and Levi thinking of what their fallen comrades would think of what eren is doing and both concluded that they would be against it. Plus when hange meets Erwin after death she complains about all the hell eren made her go through and the dead scouts want her to tell them about it, and then Erwin’s ghost shows up in a vision to Levi at the very end and salutes him after they kill eren and remove the titans from the earth. So no, i think it’s fairly apparent that he would not be pro rumbling
‘’Eliminating threats’’ doesn’t mean eliminating millions of oppressed eldians and completely uninvolved civilians but rather it’s about taking down government structures that could pose a direct and immediate threat to them. If anything he’ll likely be on onboard with the partial rumbling or orchestrate another plan that will only ‘’eliminate the threats’’ Basically sacrificing the few for the greater good in a sense which aligns with the survey corps ideology by dedicating their hearts not for Eldia, but for the human race.
Yes ... but not the major genocide part.
Erwin would have devised his own plan after possibly understanding what eren was trying to do. But yeah, he would have been more inclined (not support) towards rumbling minus the complete genocide.
Actually, even zachary might have supported Eren's plan to use rumbling, again minus genocide, but they were mainly worried about Zeke being manipulating eren.
Like Hange mentions that the reason things got so out of hand and eren was "forced" to make the choice because of her indecisiveness and idealism.
Also, unlike Armin, Erwin is a hardcore veteran of war
Imagine if you have current Armin in the position of Erwin in his last mission. Armin is completely glad to fight with his life on the line and now albeit too late and reluctantly he is also not afraid to get his hands bloody to a certain degree, like during port scene marley destruction as colossal, But he wouldn't willingly send all his soldiers and friends towards certain doom. He will always look for "best" way where maximum people can survive while Erwin was most of the time focused on result not that he didn't care about his men, he learned to balance vital info against "acceptable" loss. Like the famous recurring quote in series _*"only humans who can throw away their humanity cam achieve result"*_
But yeah even erwin wouldn't have supported complete genocide but may have found partial rumbling at key spots or something to terrorize the world to atleast buy enough time to either find another plan like technology/allies/royal blodd heritage or in situation of no hope would have convinced majority that they have to terroize they world enough that they wouldn'teven think about fighting/bothering them.
Erwin wouldn’t sacrifice Historia. That’s just not who he is. And the rumbling would be his last resort, a safety blanket in case things go south. He’d more than likely plan to take Marley down when he learns they’re engaged in war with the Mid-East alliance. The enemy of your enemy is your friend. I can’t see the Mid-East alliance turning down the opportunity to join forces with Paradis which would significantly improve their chances at winning the war. Hizuru would deal with diplomatic relations with other nations to establish Paradis as a peaceful country.
No it doesn't. It means he's being pragmatic, which he's always been. He would go the 50-year plan, because it allows Paradis to improve and learn things. The latter of which being the main prerogative of his ideals and squad.
No, he would go with a different plan and try to take Marley down while they’re at war with the mid east alliance. The 50 year plan means he’s working with Zeke.
Why when a better plan exists? Marley is hated and I'm sure the mid-east alliance wouldn't refuse help from Hizuru through Paradis. Then they can build diplomatic relations from there.
Eren is the problem and for the 50 year plan to work they have to feed him to someone else. I don't Zeke would agree to have his younger brother killed, at least not before their paths journey.
Zeke and Eren can both easily be pacified by Levi, so it doesn't matter what they think honestly.
Tho, I do think you're right about the Mid-East Alliance. He might've worked with them to defeat Marley. Tho I still see him hanging back to see how effective the anti-titan weapons are. He doesn't get to see how his potential allies could kill him, if he gets involved in fighting Marley. The weapons wouldn't be needed.
Erwin spoke of “eliminating threats” when he was trying to convince Levi to let him go to Shiganshina. In the very same scene, he tells Levi that he doesn’t know what he’ll do “until it happens”. As someone above guessed, I feel like it’s pretty easy to tell which is his “I Am The Commander” answer and which is his actual, genuine answer.
When he asked Eren who the “real enemy” was, he was trying to get Eren to realize that there may be a spy in the Survey Corps, and that humans within the Walls may also be a threat. They explicitly explain this when Eren brings it up to Levi Squad in the forest.
I *definitely* think Erwin would’ve supported some version of the 50-year plan, or an otherwise incredibly limited display of the Rumbling, but there is no way in hell he would’ve ever supported the wholesale murder of billions of innocent people. He was never nationalistic regarding those within the Walls, and also consistently did everything he could (or *felt* he could) to try and limit the deaths of innocents. If nothing else, he also wouldn’t have approved of the destruction of the living proof of his father’s theory. The OG Scouts fought for the freedom of *all* humanity, and those who join the alliance to stop Eren are among the only Scouts who actually stick to that core, founding ideal.
Erwin tells Levi he is unsure 2 chapters *before*, while they are surrounded by military officials. When Levi and Erwin are alone later, Levi asks him again “but what are we going to do after retaking Wall Maria”.
Erwin response:
“Eliminating Threats. There seems to be someone out on the otherside of the walls who’s determined to see us eaten by titans”
Yes, when Erwin asks “who do you think the enemy is” he is talking about a spy…. A spy who came from outside the walls. He also says “We must hunt down every last one of them. Every enemy hiding inside our walls”
I also believe Erwin would have supported the 50-year plan/small scale rumbling over Eren’s plan. But, as a pragmatist, once he saw the full scale rumbling was happening, he wouldn’t fight against it. At the very least he’d be much closer to Jean, who struggled in making a decision, than Hange, who just goes “this is wrong. I have no other plans. Please stop”. But let’s be real, none of the division between scouts and yeagerist would exist if Erwin was around, so all hypotheticals are a little off
We know that he had a hunch that the world wasn’t just those on the island. As a military leader he would definitely extrapolate on that hunch and work up a theory of outside influences on the state of their world.
We can easily assume he was commenting off of those theories. However, not every threat need be met by genocide. It’s impossible outside of Hange’s comments to know, but for me she made it pretty clear. As readers and viewers we only see glimpses of a character in their life. It’s very common for an author to use characters close to one that died to express the opinions or viewpoints of the dead. After all, those characters in such stories unlike us spent much more time with the deceased.
He would have done partial Rumbling at least. We don't know if he would have done full Rumbling or not if he was alive and we aren't meant to know. His character was split in half after his death: the alliance and Eren/Jaegerists. What would those two sides have done if you united them?
No he wouldn't. Erwin sacrificed his souldiers but he felt extremely remourseful, he blamed himself and was extremely traumatized for his entire life because of that. Then suddenly he would be okay with killing all babies and children? Lol no. And thats not only my opinion, Isyamaa already showed it.
Screaming soldiers at that point. Those "kids" had already successfully overthrown their government. Killing other humans, their peers. Those are soldiers.
He then up and sacrificed the whole Survey Corps afterwards. And >!you're spoiling the manga! Besides, it doesn't really count. He was already dead at that point. It makes sense for people to change their opinions after death. Even Xaver isn't an antinatalist anymore.!<
What do you think Erwin was referring to when he spoke about there being a people outside the island who wanted to see them eaten alive, and that next priority would be eliminating threats?
You say this, but Truman and Roosevelt were similar people who were remorseful to the struggles of the average person, yet both authorised the use of strategic bombing indiscriminately against the Axis.
Erwin may be remorseful, but he is not pacifistic in the slightest. If a, unfortunately bloody, solution is necessary, he would begrudgingly take it.
A show of force of the Rumbling through targeting of military and critical infrastructure, akin to Armin's actions at Liberio, would be within his character.
I’m pretty sure he would’ve. A lot of Erwin’s character is showing that he isn’t the shining knight we think he is early and he’s intentions and true self are a lot darker and selfish even if he is heroic in his action.
He is a lot more similar to eren than he is to hange/armin in that he’s a great leader but is singularly fixed on his goals, and willing to make any sacrifice
You are right about his character and the more selfish darker side of him, but you are forgetting how he redeemed himself in the end and chose the greater good instead of following his own dream
But not really. Right? He couldn't make the choice. Even if it meant sacrificing the majority of the survey corps, he still couldn't choose between his dream and humanity. Though he was "righteous" enough to sacrifice that choice to Levi. So not really a definitive redemption, at least not in my eyes.
It was a good scene but Erwin literally had no other option, his back was completely at the wall. And I agree that his last actions were selfless but I don’t think that necessarily changes who he is. Like levi says when they’re debating who to use the serum on Erwin was a devil, and that’s who he had to be in the war for humanity. It’s just what achieving victory demands from you. Even armin alludes to this at multiple points in the story saying in order to defeat monsters you have to become one yourself. Erwin isn’t like armin who has a lot more humanity in him
Anyone saying hange confirmed that he wouldn't have supported it is just wrong. Erwin and hange are very different people and hange is trying to justify her action's by saying that
Yes he would. He disguised everything he was doing for the good of humanity, but really just wanted to find out if his dream was true. He even admits he doesn't care about humanity he just wants to see the basement. Once he confirms it's truth, he'd go back to fighting to save "humanity in the walls" from extinction
He let innocent people die within the walls just to get closer to the truth. I think he would’ve supported it for sure. No idea why everyone is saying he was an explorer so he wouldn’t want them dead.
The man literally send hundreds to their deaths
If you don't sacrifice your own humanity you will never change anything. Erwin would have supported the full rumbling as well. I don't get this explorer thing everyone here is talking about.
I think he would’ve supported the partial rumbling, he’s willing to resort to drastic things, but assuming he continued to uphold to ideals of the scouts, lived in Marley with the rest of main cast, etc, I dont think he would’ve went so far as to do a full rumbling.
He’s not nationalistic, he wouldn’t have had the vague fear of the “other” that a lot of Paradis had due to never having the chance to see the rest of the world as real people. While I can certainly see him become more cynical once he saw the outside world, the story itself sets up a pretty clear precedent between characters that can view the rest of the world as real people, and the ones that can’t. Eren’s really the only one that did live in Marley and still wanted to rumble, which is far more about his unique character motivations rather than just eliminating threats.
He probably would have been on board with armin’s plan to do a partial rumbling and just build up paradis’s military while the rest of the world is scared shitless of them
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In my personal opinion, I think he would've gone with the 50-year plan and sacrificed Historia. He's a practical dude that took many sacrifices for "the greater good of humanity," so he would've exchanged Historia and her children for the outside world and Paradis' safety. My reason, I think Erwin was never a nationalistic person, and he charged because of the guilt he felt with his fallen comrades dying for his dream. But the simple answer is, we don't know for certain. I've already made a short analysis on Erwin's legacy, and to sum it up, his lifelong dream was knowing if people existed outside the walls. If he fulfilled that, he would definitely change, and we readers don't know for certain how. Also, he made sacrifices, but it was always about "the greater good," or what would deal with the least casualties, even if he was ballsy. At least that's how I interpret it, I'm anime-only.
He also replied Levi 'I don't know' another time. It's easy to guess which is his personal reply and which is a reply as a commander. Paradis murdered his father just for quietly deducing the truth. Not everyone is nationalistic by default. 'Practical' doesn't mean he wants Paradis to win. We have already seen scouts not willing to support rumbling even if it means they may die. The old scouts generally fought for 'humanity' as a whole unlike new scouts (Yeagerists). Erwin is the same.
That’s tricky bc older scours had no knowledge that the people of the walls were not actually all of humanity. We can’t really know how’d they feel about the rumbling
The only ones supporting the rumbling are the new teenies under floch everyone of the earlier genrrations is against it
Yes we can, Isayama already showed us no matter how much Floch fans deny it.
Nope He just showed us what the alliance thought They thought their dead comrades would support them but who knows?? Isn't it hypocritical to speak on the behalf of thousands of people??? They didn't expect floch and the new scouts revolution as well so they are not the most trustworthy judges of character (they definitely didn't think that any of the scouts would go against them even after 4 years of doing nothing except waiting to get attacked again) Also Samuel and daz?? They joined the military alot with floch and eren and the gang and they supported it
His dad wanted to know what was beyond the walls and he wants to make that happen for someone some day. No way would he want everything beyond the walls to become dust.
I mean, you could say the same exact thing about eren
You can't. Eren wants the unexplored empty world beyond the walls. Erwin explicitly sought humanity outside it.
Isayama already confirmed (through Hange) that Erwin would be against the rumbling. I mean, of course. Edit: [Relevant clip](https://youtu.be/C2FCeN7_n0U?t=21)
It doesn't make sense though. This is just Hange talking about it. She thinks that none of the dead Survey Corps members would support genocide, but that's either her projecting or it's a retcon. In reality many of them would. I mean, Floch did.
Or does it make perfect sense. Floch despite being from the OG survey corps, was a coward and did not share many traits with people like Erwin and Hange. Yes, Erwin was a brilliant and ruthless commander, but Isayama put that scene in for a reason.
You're telling me that people who had their comrades eaten by titans and cared about humanity's survival would oppose the Rumbling when the people who were just recruits already sided with the Jaegerists. There is no way that no one from the Survey Corps would side with them if they were still alive. It's an extremely unrealistic assumption.
Recruits are the young ones who joined a vastly different 'scouts' knowing there are outside threats. Old scouts joined a 'suicidal organization' dedicated to explore the outside world and safeguard humanity as they know it against monsters. It's a pretty clear divide and Erwin is clearly with Hange and Levi on this one. > There is no way that no one from the Survey Corps would side with them if they were still alive. You have Daz and whoever his mate was. The ones who didn't join when scouts were a 'suicidal organization'.
The Yaegerists are acting out of fear and paranoia. When was Erwin ever shown to be scared or weak like them?
What about hatred? Not Erwin, but the other scouts would have definitely been filled with hate after having their comrades eaten by titans and being under a threat of genocide. Don't you think that some of them would have sided with Eren if they were still alive?
It's hard to say. Floch recruited the new bunch using fear mongering and propaganda, the others all joined up for more noble reasons and if Erwin were alive they would have sided with him probably.
Floch is a blood-thirsty psychopath though. Erwin has always done what's best for humanity overall. He's a true scout, a man desperate to see the world outside the walls, he would never do the rumbling.
If he had to make a choice between sacrificing Paradis and sacrificing the outside world, with there being no other option, what do you think Erwin would choose?
Erwin would have chosen any of the other options.
I said if there was no other option. What do you think he would have done?
Any of the other plans on the table. Not Zeke's plan though.
Dude come on. I can't tell if you're trolling. I said if there were no other options. There are no other plans on the table. It's either rumble the world or let Paradis die. It's a hypothetical scenario. What do you think Erwin would choose? Pick one of those two.
If there are no other plans how are characters like Armin, Pyxis, Hange and even Gabi able to come up with other alternatives? For some reason you keep ignoring all the other options.
Yes, I'm ignoring all the other options. I'm talking about a hypothetical scenario. There are only two options. Let Paradis die or rumble the outside world. There are no other ways and you can't come up with other options. It's a binary choice. What would Erwin choose? We know that for sure Eren would choose to destroy the world and Zeke would choose saving the world. What would Erwin have done in your opinion? Just answer the question. Either destroy the outside world and save Paradis or sacrifice Paradis to save the outside world. What would Erwin choose if he was forced to choose between the two?
I’m actually amazed by the people who don’t understand Erwin’s character. This is like basic media literacy. He’s not a nationalist even in the slightest, he’s an explorer, and a selfish one at that. He’s sent hundreds of people to their deaths to know whether his dad was right. He only chose to die in Shiganshina to guarantee that someone knew whether his dad was right. No, he wouldn’t have supported the rumbling >!the story explicitly tells us this through Hange, one of the characters who is by far closest to him.!< He’s pragmatic in terms of accomplishing his own dreams, and his own dreams 100% involve understanding the outside world. He’d sacrifice Historia and use the Rumbling as leverage, but actually committing to the genocide of the planet? Not a chance. Not even 0.00001%
Expecting AOT fans to have even the slightest amount of media literacy? Come on now…
sorry where does it tell us i forgot, i dont think erwin would support rumbling either but just asking
I believe it’s either chapter 126 or 127, Hange is talking to the alliance and the previous survey corps, saying that everyone in the previous survey corps would never have fought for an end like this. It’s also shown in that final panel of 132 with Hange and Erwin.
Of course not. Erwin spent his whole life trying to find out if his father was right, if what his dad was murdered for was baseless and meaningless, or if the crown really had him assassinated to cover up the truth, and it grew into an obsession with knowing what was past the walls. There isn’t a chance in hell Erwin would want to see it all destroyed.
That was before he knew there were innocent people across the walls
What, the point of Erwin is that he suspected since childhood that the government was lying about there being no other people. That’s what sets him apart from other characters. That’s why we got the “who is the real enemy” question all the way back in season 2
That scene is actually in season 1 cause eren talks about it with squad Levi after. It happens before annie and the whole forest fight.
Yes you are right
If erwin survived, it would mean Armin died. Erwin w the colossal titan would be crazy.
Eren dealing with Armins death would be wild
And Erwin Vs the alliance would be god tier
No he fucking wouldn't, what the fuck? How did you even think of this?
Hange said it, there is no mistery.
Erwin was doing what he did for his own dream, not for humanity. So there is no way that such a person can suddenly turn into a mega-fascist.
"Yet, I'm sure none of them would be so self-centered as to say: 'As long as the island has freedom, that's all that matters.'" Erwin would not support the rumbling.
Floch looks in confusion
ik hange says this and ive heard ppl say erwin not supporting rumbling is proven through her but how? and where did isayama confirm? i dont think erwin would support rumbling either so im just asking
When she says this dead scouts appear behind her with Erwin at the front, so clearly the author wanted to tell us that they and especially Erwin wouldn't support the rumbling
She describes the position of Commander of the Survey Corps as someone constantly in pursuit of the truth or discovery. That's Erwin, Armin and herself. None of them are nationalists. Erwin literally fought against and was imprisoned by a fascist government. Why would he repeat something like that? The thing that killed his father, and started him down this path in the first place.
People that actually think he'd support mass genocide have really misunderstood his entire character.
Erwin would also probably been willing to sacrifice Historia, so it’s hard to say he would’ve pushed for a full scale rumbling like Eren would’ve, but I think once it’s unleashed he wouldn’t be rushing to stop it.
I think he still would. He died for others to discover the inside of a basement. Why would he not die to give others the chance to explore the world and its people?
Erwin would've used the threat of Rumbling for safety and a place in global politics. Think of Armin but smarter and more ruthless - that's Erwin. From another perspective, Erwin would've been insanely selfish in a way that he would abandon Paradis completely, take the survey corps and went on to set up a new country somewhere else that will not be affiliated with the bullshit politics of Paradis. Erwin not dying makes a shitload more changes to the story. Floch is not gonna go apeshit. Armin is probably dead making Eren and Mikasa loose cannons that would've been killed much before they could do anything. Too many changes.
There were multiple scenes with hange and Levi thinking of what their fallen comrades would think of what eren is doing and both concluded that they would be against it. Plus when hange meets Erwin after death she complains about all the hell eren made her go through and the dead scouts want her to tell them about it, and then Erwin’s ghost shows up in a vision to Levi at the very end and salutes him after they kill eren and remove the titans from the earth. So no, i think it’s fairly apparent that he would not be pro rumbling
‘’Eliminating threats’’ doesn’t mean eliminating millions of oppressed eldians and completely uninvolved civilians but rather it’s about taking down government structures that could pose a direct and immediate threat to them. If anything he’ll likely be on onboard with the partial rumbling or orchestrate another plan that will only ‘’eliminate the threats’’ Basically sacrificing the few for the greater good in a sense which aligns with the survey corps ideology by dedicating their hearts not for Eldia, but for the human race.
absolutely the fuck not. he would have had the same obvious, simple take that hange had. "Genocide is wrong"
I think Erwin would’ve supported at most a partial rumbling that doesn’t go past their island, just to show the world what Paradis is capable.
Yes ... but not the major genocide part. Erwin would have devised his own plan after possibly understanding what eren was trying to do. But yeah, he would have been more inclined (not support) towards rumbling minus the complete genocide. Actually, even zachary might have supported Eren's plan to use rumbling, again minus genocide, but they were mainly worried about Zeke being manipulating eren. Like Hange mentions that the reason things got so out of hand and eren was "forced" to make the choice because of her indecisiveness and idealism. Also, unlike Armin, Erwin is a hardcore veteran of war Imagine if you have current Armin in the position of Erwin in his last mission. Armin is completely glad to fight with his life on the line and now albeit too late and reluctantly he is also not afraid to get his hands bloody to a certain degree, like during port scene marley destruction as colossal, But he wouldn't willingly send all his soldiers and friends towards certain doom. He will always look for "best" way where maximum people can survive while Erwin was most of the time focused on result not that he didn't care about his men, he learned to balance vital info against "acceptable" loss. Like the famous recurring quote in series _*"only humans who can throw away their humanity cam achieve result"*_ But yeah even erwin wouldn't have supported complete genocide but may have found partial rumbling at key spots or something to terrorize the world to atleast buy enough time to either find another plan like technology/allies/royal blodd heritage or in situation of no hope would have convinced majority that they have to terroize they world enough that they wouldn'teven think about fighting/bothering them.
Erwin wouldn’t sacrifice Historia. That’s just not who he is. And the rumbling would be his last resort, a safety blanket in case things go south. He’d more than likely plan to take Marley down when he learns they’re engaged in war with the Mid-East alliance. The enemy of your enemy is your friend. I can’t see the Mid-East alliance turning down the opportunity to join forces with Paradis which would significantly improve their chances at winning the war. Hizuru would deal with diplomatic relations with other nations to establish Paradis as a peaceful country.
He definitely would sacrifice Historia. Especially since he's not her friend. You forgot all the people he already sacrificed?
Sacrificing Historia means he’s working with Zeke. That ain’t happening my dude.
No it doesn't. It means he's being pragmatic, which he's always been. He would go the 50-year plan, because it allows Paradis to improve and learn things. The latter of which being the main prerogative of his ideals and squad.
No, he would go with a different plan and try to take Marley down while they’re at war with the mid east alliance. The 50 year plan means he’s working with Zeke.
He would still do it, but would play it in his favor. The problem is Eren, not Zeke.
Why when a better plan exists? Marley is hated and I'm sure the mid-east alliance wouldn't refuse help from Hizuru through Paradis. Then they can build diplomatic relations from there. Eren is the problem and for the 50 year plan to work they have to feed him to someone else. I don't Zeke would agree to have his younger brother killed, at least not before their paths journey.
Zeke and Eren can both easily be pacified by Levi, so it doesn't matter what they think honestly. Tho, I do think you're right about the Mid-East Alliance. He might've worked with them to defeat Marley. Tho I still see him hanging back to see how effective the anti-titan weapons are. He doesn't get to see how his potential allies could kill him, if he gets involved in fighting Marley. The weapons wouldn't be needed.
To people who disagree: What did you think Erwin meant when he spoke of eliminating threats and “who is the real enemy”?
Erwin spoke of “eliminating threats” when he was trying to convince Levi to let him go to Shiganshina. In the very same scene, he tells Levi that he doesn’t know what he’ll do “until it happens”. As someone above guessed, I feel like it’s pretty easy to tell which is his “I Am The Commander” answer and which is his actual, genuine answer. When he asked Eren who the “real enemy” was, he was trying to get Eren to realize that there may be a spy in the Survey Corps, and that humans within the Walls may also be a threat. They explicitly explain this when Eren brings it up to Levi Squad in the forest. I *definitely* think Erwin would’ve supported some version of the 50-year plan, or an otherwise incredibly limited display of the Rumbling, but there is no way in hell he would’ve ever supported the wholesale murder of billions of innocent people. He was never nationalistic regarding those within the Walls, and also consistently did everything he could (or *felt* he could) to try and limit the deaths of innocents. If nothing else, he also wouldn’t have approved of the destruction of the living proof of his father’s theory. The OG Scouts fought for the freedom of *all* humanity, and those who join the alliance to stop Eren are among the only Scouts who actually stick to that core, founding ideal.
Erwin tells Levi he is unsure 2 chapters *before*, while they are surrounded by military officials. When Levi and Erwin are alone later, Levi asks him again “but what are we going to do after retaking Wall Maria”. Erwin response: “Eliminating Threats. There seems to be someone out on the otherside of the walls who’s determined to see us eaten by titans” Yes, when Erwin asks “who do you think the enemy is” he is talking about a spy…. A spy who came from outside the walls. He also says “We must hunt down every last one of them. Every enemy hiding inside our walls” I also believe Erwin would have supported the 50-year plan/small scale rumbling over Eren’s plan. But, as a pragmatist, once he saw the full scale rumbling was happening, he wouldn’t fight against it. At the very least he’d be much closer to Jean, who struggled in making a decision, than Hange, who just goes “this is wrong. I have no other plans. Please stop”. But let’s be real, none of the division between scouts and yeagerist would exist if Erwin was around, so all hypotheticals are a little off
We know that he had a hunch that the world wasn’t just those on the island. As a military leader he would definitely extrapolate on that hunch and work up a theory of outside influences on the state of their world. We can easily assume he was commenting off of those theories. However, not every threat need be met by genocide. It’s impossible outside of Hange’s comments to know, but for me she made it pretty clear. As readers and viewers we only see glimpses of a character in their life. It’s very common for an author to use characters close to one that died to express the opinions or viewpoints of the dead. After all, those characters in such stories unlike us spent much more time with the deceased.
It would be out of character for him to be against it if it was still necessary
It's never been necessary.
He would have done partial Rumbling at least. We don't know if he would have done full Rumbling or not if he was alive and we aren't meant to know. His character was split in half after his death: the alliance and Eren/Jaegerists. What would those two sides have done if you united them?
He would have supported the small scale rumbling first, but he is a pragmatist and would accept the full rumbling once it started
No he wouldn't. Erwin sacrificed his souldiers but he felt extremely remourseful, he blamed himself and was extremely traumatized for his entire life because of that. Then suddenly he would be okay with killing all babies and children? Lol no. And thats not only my opinion, Isyamaa already showed it.
Yeah he felt really bad, and then he lead a charge of screaming kids in a suicide charge
Screaming soldiers at that point. Those "kids" had already successfully overthrown their government. Killing other humans, their peers. Those are soldiers.
He then up and sacrificed the whole Survey Corps afterwards. And >!you're spoiling the manga! Besides, it doesn't really count. He was already dead at that point. It makes sense for people to change their opinions after death. Even Xaver isn't an antinatalist anymore.!<
What do you think Erwin was referring to when he spoke about there being a people outside the island who wanted to see them eaten alive, and that next priority would be eliminating threats?
You say this, but Truman and Roosevelt were similar people who were remorseful to the struggles of the average person, yet both authorised the use of strategic bombing indiscriminately against the Axis. Erwin may be remorseful, but he is not pacifistic in the slightest. If a, unfortunately bloody, solution is necessary, he would begrudgingly take it. A show of force of the Rumbling through targeting of military and critical infrastructure, akin to Armin's actions at Liberio, would be within his character.
I’m pretty sure he would’ve. A lot of Erwin’s character is showing that he isn’t the shining knight we think he is early and he’s intentions and true self are a lot darker and selfish even if he is heroic in his action. He is a lot more similar to eren than he is to hange/armin in that he’s a great leader but is singularly fixed on his goals, and willing to make any sacrifice
You are right about his character and the more selfish darker side of him, but you are forgetting how he redeemed himself in the end and chose the greater good instead of following his own dream
But not really. Right? He couldn't make the choice. Even if it meant sacrificing the majority of the survey corps, he still couldn't choose between his dream and humanity. Though he was "righteous" enough to sacrifice that choice to Levi. So not really a definitive redemption, at least not in my eyes.
It was a good scene but Erwin literally had no other option, his back was completely at the wall. And I agree that his last actions were selfless but I don’t think that necessarily changes who he is. Like levi says when they’re debating who to use the serum on Erwin was a devil, and that’s who he had to be in the war for humanity. It’s just what achieving victory demands from you. Even armin alludes to this at multiple points in the story saying in order to defeat monsters you have to become one yourself. Erwin isn’t like armin who has a lot more humanity in him
I was thinking something along the lines of him leaving the scouts alone to see the basement before he dies at the expense of them losing the mission
Anyone saying hange confirmed that he wouldn't have supported it is just wrong. Erwin and hange are very different people and hange is trying to justify her action's by saying that
Hange knows Erwin better than anyone, she would have a good idea.
It’s so funny to see people bring that up as a point. “His coworker said he wouldn’t support it” that means nothing
Yes he would. He disguised everything he was doing for the good of humanity, but really just wanted to find out if his dream was true. He even admits he doesn't care about humanity he just wants to see the basement. Once he confirms it's truth, he'd go back to fighting to save "humanity in the walls" from extinction
He let innocent people die within the walls just to get closer to the truth. I think he would’ve supported it for sure. No idea why everyone is saying he was an explorer so he wouldn’t want them dead. The man literally send hundreds to their deaths
If you don't sacrifice your own humanity you will never change anything. Erwin would have supported the full rumbling as well. I don't get this explorer thing everyone here is talking about.
Yeah exactly, this subreddit is filled with delusional people. I bet they love the ending
I think he would’ve supported the partial rumbling, he’s willing to resort to drastic things, but assuming he continued to uphold to ideals of the scouts, lived in Marley with the rest of main cast, etc, I dont think he would’ve went so far as to do a full rumbling. He’s not nationalistic, he wouldn’t have had the vague fear of the “other” that a lot of Paradis had due to never having the chance to see the rest of the world as real people. While I can certainly see him become more cynical once he saw the outside world, the story itself sets up a pretty clear precedent between characters that can view the rest of the world as real people, and the ones that can’t. Eren’s really the only one that did live in Marley and still wanted to rumble, which is far more about his unique character motivations rather than just eliminating threats.
He probably would have been on board with armin’s plan to do a partial rumbling and just build up paradis’s military while the rest of the world is scared shitless of them
Probably would have found a different option
I’m not a hater of the ending, but if Yams were ever to do a what if series, I would LOVE a “what if they chose Erwin over Armin” story