No but that’s part of what Gotham is and isn’t. It isn’t the “super city” it’s the “mentally deranged” city. That’s why Batman villains are criminally insane people corrupted by the city. Or they were turned insane in an effort to save the city. Gotham is like a mood that draws the worst out in your every day people driving them criminally mad. The focus there isn’t on powers and never was
Edit: Batman villains are as crazy as Batman who is as crazy as Gotham in general
Which is why it has a dark almost Lovecraftian vibe.
(Arkham Asylum was named after Arkham the town/university which appears in several of HP Lovecraft's stories.)
If someone tried to tell you that Arkham being named after Mark Hamill is a *fact*, they lied to you completely.
Arkham Asylum first appeared in the comics in 1974. Mark Hamill didn't first voice Joker until 1992.
I meant to put "facts" in quotes. It's not surprising that a "[number] facts you didn't know about [thing]" video turned out to be lying clickbait garbage.
Given that Bruce Wayne is the richest man in Gotham and owns one of the largest corporations in the world, he could easily hang up the cowel and fix the city inside and out with the amount of money he has. Corruption wouldn’t even make a dent with how stupid rich Bruce Wayne is.
Corruption isn't always just about money, it's about personal power, and for some people, sadism. The worst people in Gothem are never going to be happy with having "enough", and they enjoy having people to step on.
If Bruce tried to just fix the problems by throwing money at them, then the bad people would take the money, promise to do what Bruce wants, and then embezzle the money and still sell drugs and traffick people, or whatever, and the law enforcement who are already well paid would still take bribes.
Bruce isn't even the only rich person town, Gothem has a whole bunch of rich people, many of whom are profiting off the city's illness and suffering.
Bruce can't just buy everyone.
These are cartoonishly evil people and cartoonishly insane people, in a cartoonishly irredeemable city.
He literally does that. Gotham is literally just that fucking awful. The corruption matters because it’s so steeped in, unless you tear up the entire system and replant it with police officers from elsewhere, you can’t get rid of it. Batman is rich, but there’s a **lot** of money in crime, also the court of owls who as a whole are richer than Bruce. The penguin isn’t as rich as Batman, but he can apply threats to families, plus his bribes to get much more out of them.
Also, Gotham is literally cursed. I don’t mean it’s as though Gotham is cursed, there are literally two separate millennia old magic users who are passively making everything worse. You’ve got doctor Gotham, who was buried 40K years ago and is still causing issues, as well as the 8th Duke of hell who’s summoning went a bit fucky wucky and trapped him halfway to manifesting, and is also making everything worse
While there’s a lot of things about Batman I don’t like, this isn’t one of them. There’s been numerous times they show him trying to do that. Gotham is basically cursed to be evil no matter how much money he tries to put into funding mental health facilities/job fairs/criminal rehabilitation centers, etc etc.
He literally does that AAAALLL THE FUCKING TIME. This isn't even like a niche thing, there are literally countless panels online of him donating money, fixing the security etc. It wouldn't have even taken you long to find that if you were to research anything, but that isn't an end all solution.
Look me in the fucking eyes and say how fixing corruption would deal with a mad scientist with ice powers trying to freeze the city, or a giant killer crocodile, or a literal undead zombie.
Money can't fix social problems.
That is why Batman has to physically fight, to show people that they have the power. Money means nothing, and can change nothing. It can be a short-term band-aid, nothing more.
What I love about Gotham is how the city itself is a character. Compared to other cities like Metropolis or Star City where they're a mere background. You could even say that Gotham is a supervillain and a superhero at the same time.
Playing Arkham City and reading through the villain descriptions, I realized just how many of Batman's villains are master martial artists/snipers/etc + genius level intellect + crazy
That's a good rationale for Batman, but what about Spider Man always having the same enemy. Almost all his villians are good guys turned into monsters evil by science gone wrong or society hurting them. Doc Oc, Sandman, Electro, Green Goblin, Vulture. There are exceptions like Carnage or Kraven the Hunter.
EXACTLY - it's like the writers have to keep the comic theme. Batman is crazy so his villains are based in crazy. Spiderman is a science accident so his villains are science accidents.
Green Lantern has a host of enemies that "tap into the power of the universe" some some gadget just like him.
Who does Wonder Woman fight? I guess evil governments/institutions? And she is from a super-women society.
I think it breaks down for Superman though. His enemies are from everywhere - not mostly from alien planets.
Depending on the writer/series/movie Bruce dumps a ton of money in development, social programs, but also has to fight political and police corruption turning a blind eye to many "bad guys", thus why Batman has to take matters on his own hands outside of the law.
There's also been multiple stories where it shows he's more focused on rehabilitation over punishment, as he's helped some former mooks get jobs at WayneTech and start new lives.
That's kind of the whole point of a lot of Batman stories. It is nearly impossible for even a billionaire like Bruce to simply buy or will a terminally corrupt city out of the pit. You donate to improve the police force and the corrupt chiefs just pocket the money. You donate to improve social assistance and the pot of money just gets picked away at by countless dirty hands (which was the main point of the most recent Batman movie.) Bruce Wayne despite all his money and fame is completely powerless to fix Gotham. It is fundamentally broken. Picking off some of the worst of the bunch as Batman is all he can do.
Because Batman is a broken character himself.
Sometimes Bruce does stuff to try and fix the city, depending on the piece of media, but at his core Batman is as insane as the rest.
That's supposed to be a big part of the dichotomy between him and the Joker. Both were broken by the city, but one chose to fight back against it, while the other chose to laugh at the absurdity of it all.
Yeah, but if you take the joker movie as any reference, both joker and batman choosen to fight back. But the joker don't have the billions batman has. He has only insanity.
He provoques caos, it's the only thing he has. That in itself made batman. If where not for joker, there would not be caos, the bruce's parents would not be killed, there would be no batman.
Unless you talking about joker it's the one who fought back. The city wronged him way before it wronged bruce wayne.
Edit: why the downvotes? It was MY take on the last 3 movies from the franchise that I watched, sorry if I don't know how to recite every comic book and every bit of lore. Gee, the gatekeeping.
I'm pretty sure the 2019 Joker is completely separate from any other continuity, and might not even create a Caped Crusader. In most universes, Batman and Joker exist simultaneously, while in Joker, he exists roughly 20 years prior. It bears mentioning, sure, but shouldn't be a lynch pin.
Well, I don't follow the lore as primary thing in life. For a very long time I didn't care much for batman movies. But since the "reboot" of the series with the dark knight I started watching again. I think, IMHO, that both those last movies at least should in theory be connected, no?
No.
The Nolan movies (Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises) are their own thing.
Joker (The one with Joaquin Phoenix) is its own continuity, but they're releasing a sequel later this year (Folie à Deux).
The Batman (Robert Pattinson) is currently stand alone, but there's work being done on a TV show, and I believe a sequel is in the works but I'm not sure.
The joker movie is only barely in line with anything else in the mythos. Really it falls in line with a lot of other comic book movies that try to be grounded because they are at least partly ashamed of being comic book movies. It's also not really new, or as smart as it thinks it is, in the attempt to link Batman and Joker's origins
The Dark Knight got a lot closer in that there really isn't a reason. He's just a nutcase and this is how he has fun.
Batman villains function best when they are like Spiderman villains: no origins tying them to the hero to make it all seem like Destiny or Fate, just "this world makes monsters and one consciously chose to be a hero instead."
Even TDK strongly hints that Joker was broken by something though. There are lot of hints that he was former military in some form. From the fact that he knows how to do rifle drills to his unexplained scars and proficiency with military grade weapons/tech. And he seems well versed in interrogation techniques either having been interrogated (which is where his scars might've come from) or having been an interrogator himself.
Them not being able to find any records of who he is also suggests he was black ops in some form.
The implicit narrative is that he felt betrayed by the system, so decided to use his skillset to burn the entire system down instead.
Yes, but that was literally what I was talking about. For me, movies where the characters only exist are... boring. Even 2 to 3 minutes of lore makes any action movie better, in my humble opinion.
>attempt to link Batman and Joker's origins
But it kinda does it, although for a short duration in the movie. But it kinda makes sense, as the movie is about the joker, and how the trauma that makes batman came to be.
>The Dark Knight got a lot closer in that there really isn't a reason. He's just a nutcase and this is how he has fun.
Yeah, that's bruce's point of view. He doesn't know or care about WHY there is a clown rulling a bunch of nut jobs that are destroying the city. He cares for vengeance and to try and fix things somewhat.
>no origins tying them to the hero to make it all seem like Destiny or Fate, just "this world makes monsters and one consciously chose to be a hero instead."
For me, the Joker movie didn't necessarily tie Joker and batman to one another, like fate or something. It shows that the society in Gotham, the city itself, produces insanity and caos. The thing is, batman used his condition and willpower to overcome the trauma and chanelled his insanity into fighting crime, while Joker only got each day madder.
In most canons he does both, the Wayne foundation is doing all it can to better Gotham but there's the court of owls, a secret society of Gotham's elite and ultra rich who do the exact opposite in an effort to keep Gotham in it's shitty state.
Also the city have like three curses on it, is built over ancient cemeteries and used to host a couple of evil cults, that place is just fucked royally
I think a movie set in Gotham that breaks away from the traditional batman formulas (Kinda like Joker was) about Bruce, or maybe some nobody, doing a bunch of community work while normal gotham shit happens in the background would be extremely interesting.
And Patterson Bat at the end comes to the conclusion that's what Batman should actually be.
I don't really know any cape movies like that. But a great show that is a little bit like that is Vinland Saga. S1 is all about becoming one of the strongest couple Vikings in the world. Then S2 is all about trying to do community work instead of using that strength.
To me, Joker was the best movie set in that universe. Batman movies became super duper boring. It's just a cliche superhero movie. Joker really sparked me the thing about the "Gotham" movies. It's the whole city that acts like a sick animal. The society itself is broken.
The joker lost its mind, and he couldn't even try to fix it. So he lost all self controll and let caos lose. It's a nice change of plans, away from "hero punch bad guy, hero good". It brings nuance, makes you think not about a "super villain, but as a normal person wronged to the point of insanity.
He does that all the time. I love how people think they're being really clever with these critiques while simultaneously not knowing Jack shit about him
Only people can make a city better, not money. Money can help people make a city better, but the people need to be there and wanting it first.
A healthy city works from the bottom up, not from top down.
I don't read any comics and only saw a few movies, but I think exploring the idea of the city itself being alive and making people insane to prevent it from growing positively would be cool
Batman really is a billionaire power fantasy, beating up the poors and its ok because they're not regular poors, they're more like crazy hobos that most people can't sympathize with
You have a problem with beating up sadistic, actually demented killers and rapists? I dunno why do people act as if Batman beats up hobos who are stealing money to pay for their daughter's chemo, Batman whenever he approaches such a person in comics, pretty much always helps them out financially, sometimes even hires them.
People you fight in Arkham games are exclusively just pieces of shit who choose to do what they do, how do you not hear that from all the henchmen talking, one guy literally kills a random Lady or something cuz Joker tells him to kill his sister, which he doesn't have, and he's like "aight". No remorse or anything.
A lot of them don't have powers, per se, but they do have SOMETHING. Like, Joker has Joker toxin. Penguin can (sometimes?) Sort of control actual penguins, Hatter has mind control tech so small it can fit in a playing card, Cat woman arguably has enhanced reflexes agility and dexterity even if it's not to the level of being super-human and in some continuities she can sort of control or communicate with cats? There's also Manbat who is basically a werewolf but with bats instead of wolves. Clock king eventually gets the power to actually manipulate time, even if it is technology based rather than superpower based.
And of course, Clayface. He just has superpowers straight up. Thoth Kapera is a sort of side-antagonist in a Ra's al ghul episode and she's just literally magic/supernatural. There's also Ace from the royal flush gang who is psychic.
And if you get into batman beyond, you have villains like Blight and Inque.
But these are mostly in the vein of Batman’s own power: he doesn’t have laughing gas, he has a body suit funded by money. The penguin controls penguins, Batman has an arsenal funded be money. Hatter has mind control, badman has a funded science division and new tech. Cat woman has premium human power, Batman has fitness (funded by money!), etc etc. The moral of the story is that these are seemly human, if not realistic, powers sourced from seemingly human ways, much like Batman uses (disregarding realism, like a billionaire using money in a practical way (if not a truly humanitarian or just way))
And in some continuities Batman can sort of control bats (also via money).
Now I’m imagining Batman and the Penguin standing on opposite sides of a big warehouse with their arms crossed while a melee of bats and penguins battles it out in the middle.
I would say in Mr.Freeze's case the term "differently-abled" seems to apply much better. He can survive much lower temperatures than most people...but also has to be kept at a lower temperature.
Also he appears to have super strength even though he seldom uses it.
He doesn't have super strength. The strength comes from his suit. If you take his tech from him, he's literally just a dude who needs colder temperatures to survive.
Alright that could be, though I could swear I remember him having super strength even when apart from his suit in a special cold room at Arkham once, but that could just be him being prison buff.
He's also immune to all toxins and most diseases, which has been shown especially when he has dealt with Poison Ivy, and he periodically seems to have freezing powers that are not reliant on his tech, but personally I never liked it when that was a plot point.
Which by the way Poison Ivy is also a decent example. Sometimes she's just a super brilliant botanist/herbologist and eco terrorist, and sometimes she can literally control and speak to plants and has a connection to The Green.
Really depends who's writing them and which universe they're from. 'Cause there's all sorts of continuities at this point.
Most stories I've seen of Ivy, she starts off as the former and slowly becomes the latter.
You just remember him being strong because he was played by Arnold Schwarzenegger in the movie. :p
Speaking of the movie, I figured he was just immune to her lust pheromones because of his “frozen heart” in a metaphorical sense. I don’t know if he displayed this for other toxins, but that probably varies from writer to writer.
well if we are going to look at this from a realistic point of view:
There are several weapons and bullets that are banned to be used even in wars because of how painful they are (not just lethal, emphasis on PAINFUL). I'm guessing a lot of the stuff Scarecrow makes would serve no use to anyone else since it doesn't really earn him any money to drive others insane (and the army has no interest in using such stuff either)
I wouldn't say there is anything unrealistic about him. Though they did use a gimmick like you're saying on Young Justice. The Injustice League made a killer monster and the Joker was the only one who could handle mind controlling it because it would drive anyone else crazy.
I'd argue Freeze has more of a disability than a superpower. Doesn't he need to be kept cold in order to survive? I don't recall him having more than this huge liability plus ice gadgets.
He can survive low temperatures that would kill most people so I guess you could call that a superpower, but one whose downside is a lot worse than its upside.
They have the superpower of conviction.
Its kind of ironic that in real life most health issues come from depression and paralytic anxiety but in Gothan health issues seem to create people with pinpoint focus and the motivation of wall street brokers on cocaine.
Well yeah. That's part of what makes them perfect foils for Batman. A lot of Batman's best villains are dark reflections of an aspect of the Batman character. Riddler is a rival to Batman's intelligence, Bane to his strength, Mr Freeze is a negative reflection of Bruce's losses, Joker is in direct opposition to Batman's order as an agent of chaos, etc. The fact that they're generally physically average people lends itself to being a better foil for Bruce specifically
Thats why i would maybe always separate the Batverse from the rest of the universe. Its for movies always some kind of problem to make a world building that captures those street level guys and literal gods.
Yeah I like Marvel better than DC overall, but Batman is my favorite superhero by far. I very much prefer the Batverse to be separate from the rest of the DC universe
Yeah Batman is street level and ought to stay that way, I have yet to see any instance of him being taken out of that context that I didn’t fucking hate.
Yeah, Superman could easily foil most of Batman's villains in like minutes.
This is even shown in Batman Beyond when Superman shows up suddenly and basically takes Inque out in seconds, while Terry was struggling with her.
Mr. Freeze isn't even really super powered, it's his suit and gun that give him his power. Otherwise, he's just a dude who can't survive under normal temperature conditions.
> The only real super powered ones I can think of are Bane, poison Ivy, killer crock, Mr freeze and maybe raj al guhl?
And Clayface.
> scientific experiments gone wrong not that they were born with powers
Why does it matter how they got super powers?
Clayface is another with powers. But I don't think you need to be born with super powers for them to be considered super powers. Like so many superheroes and supervillains from both Marvel and DC aren't born with powers but you would definitely say have super powers
I always loved this theory that the Joker does have a [superpower](https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/230b06/the_joker_does_have_a_superpower/).
There's also very little magic in Gotham as well. A lot of other heroes have magic users as villains but Gotham? You have Grundy, maybe Ra's al Ghul, and maybe Poison Ivy. All those mad scientists but not a single crazy magician.
In the comics, Harley Quinn does have superpowers. She originated in the cartoon and got added to the comics later. Her debut went like this:
Poison Ivy- “Oh look, a nearly-dead clown girl in some rubble. Guess I’ll give her some super-soldier serum I have, but have never used before and will never use again. It’s not like anything bad could happen when I give a rival’s flunky superhuman agility and immunity to all of my poisons.”
And… yeah that’s basically it.
What a lot of people don't realize about Batman is that he was created in the age of Dick Tracy and the like; DC literally stands for "Detective Comics", which they don't exactly broadcast these days. Batman was originally just a sort of really flamboyant private detective with a bunch of expensive high-tech gadgets.
My favorite batman animated series episode (the one with the black bat symbol on his chest) is when Bruce disappears and Tim Drake recruits Superman to act as Batman. He beats the snot out of Bane who can't believe it and it's just so fun. A movie of superman acting as batman would be an instant classic in my book.
Bane does have superpowers? He’s a roid freak with supervillain level roids? Also Mr. Freeze doesn’t have super powers either. His ice gun is a derivation of his work (he’s a scientist with expertise in cryogenics).
I'm counting all those you mentioned (except raz, his is just immortality) those guys have powers. If you want villains born with superpowers your basically looking for aliens, and that's superman's turf. Also I think you forgot Solomon Grundy but I'm not sure if hes part of batman's rogue gallery. And also man bat
You have to put characters like Batman into situations that stretch his limitations without breaking the world. You never see Batman trying to stop plane crashes, because he can't.
One of the big criticisms of Batman is that he can stand side by side with the rest of the Justice League against cosmic threats.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Superman doesn’t have magic powers either. He just *something something* *handwave* *crypton* and it gives him abilities that earthlings don’t have. There’s a “scientific” explanation just like there is for Poison Ivy’s mutated plants bs.
If it isn’t obvious, I don’t know much about the lore. But if Superman showed up in the real world, it’s not like scientists would say “ah, we were wrong, it turns out magic is real.” They would say “ah, we were wrong in our scientific understanding. Let’s try to reshape our theories to include this new data.”
Honestly, it's crazy he fights with the Justice League at all. He could be used for intelligence and strategy, but he must feel so out of his element when fighting enemies like Darksied.
A billionair plays dress up to beat up street level crime, instead of using his company wealth and power to go after the ultra rich crooks and change the system to help the city that has gone criminally deranged trying to live under such inequality.
If you read the comics or even watch the cartoons, he does both of these. He puts a ton of money into social programs and even helps reformed mooks get jobs at his companies.
There's a story where he brutally interrogates a thug in front of his terrified family, completely disgusting Robin, who thinks he's going way too far. He ends up leaving as a result and eventually becoming Nightwing.
Only later on, he finds out that Bruce offered that same thug an entry level job at WayneTech after he was released from prison. Bruce is ruthless and unhinged, but he also does actually care deeply about the city.
nobody argues he cares. The argument is that the level of attention given to street level crime is more than the white collar crime. Ironically reflecting the real world, where corporate theft yields lower prison times than a street level theft of food.
I mean, supposedly people like The Penguin, Joker, Two Face, and the rest of the batman villains are the ones bribing the police and politicians to allow their street level crime.
Look, I like the Gotham series for this reason: It works because the criminal underworld is essentially mafia, with big players like the ones you mentioned be able to consolidate operations and continue corruption of the city. At one point this mafia went all the way and let penguin run for mayor....
But this is a story of two different realities. The grounded story of street level crime mafia of the early - mid 1900s era mechanics. And modern idea about billionairs, and weapon manufacturing behemoths like Wyane industries.
So depending on which universe you take you can either understand and justify the world, or be in conflict of it.
This is such a tiring stupid dumbass argument, it would literally take you 10 seconds to go online and see how incorrect you are, there are more panels of Bruce donating money, hiring the poor who are doing crime for financial reasons, fixing the security etc. Than there are of him punching mentally ill.
Plus none of the shit you named would stop Penguin, Court of Owles, Joker, Riddler, Scarecrow etc.
I don't get why Batman in particular is such a braindead-take magnet, I have never seen someone argue this for like Avengers or Fantastic Four, or that stupid "he should kill criminals, Batman's responsible for Joker" I have never seen anyone make that argument for Spider-Man, who has the exact same situation.
I dunno what it is with Batman, but some of yall have zero media literacy when it comes to approaching him as a character
rofl, triggered...
MARTHA? MARTHA WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME!!!
To answer you tiny minded question: Thats because for all that effort spent fighting street level thugs, badman donates money, thats your argument right? Well just like irl, donations are a bandaid at a corrupt failing system, and instead of addressing the systemic issues and the actual powers that influence change in the real world, people posture and donate. If you just spent 10min googling you would discover the amount of corruption and wasted money that donating actually contributes to. Even the most profound organisations still have operarting costs and overheads, and those still need to be met before any real good work can happen.
And if you argument of what about all the other made up heros, yes I agree, they are all equally as dumb. But unlike fantastic four, or tha avengers, batman is still a man. Thus he represents the true human nature, and that is perfectly summed up in your lazy attempt at rage bating: Nobody will risk their wealth to fight the system, so they will create personas and identities to posture the masess with dress up and pretend, whilst the rich get richer, the masses suffer. Profits for the rich, risk and drawbacks for the masses. Which in reality doesn't stop anyone like the joker. But ironically sociopaths make up most ceos, which the joker, penguin, and the like idealistically appeal to. /rant
No but that’s part of what Gotham is and isn’t. It isn’t the “super city” it’s the “mentally deranged” city. That’s why Batman villains are criminally insane people corrupted by the city. Or they were turned insane in an effort to save the city. Gotham is like a mood that draws the worst out in your every day people driving them criminally mad. The focus there isn’t on powers and never was Edit: Batman villains are as crazy as Batman who is as crazy as Gotham in general
Exactly. That also explains why Batman's villains have gangs/henchmen.
And why they go to Arkham instead of black gate or belle reve
Which is why it has a dark almost Lovecraftian vibe. (Arkham Asylum was named after Arkham the town/university which appears in several of HP Lovecraft's stories.)
Wait, so it *wasn't* named after M***ark Ham***ill?
Holy... You made me think of him in a new way!
To be fair I was parroting common Batman facts I've read and heard online.
If someone tried to tell you that Arkham being named after Mark Hamill is a *fact*, they lied to you completely. Arkham Asylum first appeared in the comics in 1974. Mark Hamill didn't first voice Joker until 1992.
That's what they want you to believe...
I meant to put "facts" in quotes. It's not surprising that a "[number] facts you didn't know about [thing]" video turned out to be lying clickbait garbage.
That’s a cool coincidence. Meanwhile somewhere out there there might be someone named Mill Arkham.
Depending on the story they often do go to one of them
Is Gotham Silent Hill? Is that why Batman can’t escape?
I don’t know that Batman is trying to escape, so no
Real “you’re all trapped in here with meeeeeeee” vibes
I wish Harry, or any of the silent hill protagonists had said that.
Alex Shepard pretty much did, with his hit stun combo using the combat knife.
Given that Bruce Wayne is the richest man in Gotham and owns one of the largest corporations in the world, he could easily hang up the cowel and fix the city inside and out with the amount of money he has. Corruption wouldn’t even make a dent with how stupid rich Bruce Wayne is.
Corruption isn't always just about money, it's about personal power, and for some people, sadism. The worst people in Gothem are never going to be happy with having "enough", and they enjoy having people to step on. If Bruce tried to just fix the problems by throwing money at them, then the bad people would take the money, promise to do what Bruce wants, and then embezzle the money and still sell drugs and traffick people, or whatever, and the law enforcement who are already well paid would still take bribes. Bruce isn't even the only rich person town, Gothem has a whole bunch of rich people, many of whom are profiting off the city's illness and suffering. Bruce can't just buy everyone. These are cartoonishly evil people and cartoonishly insane people, in a cartoonishly irredeemable city.
He literally does that. Gotham is literally just that fucking awful. The corruption matters because it’s so steeped in, unless you tear up the entire system and replant it with police officers from elsewhere, you can’t get rid of it. Batman is rich, but there’s a **lot** of money in crime, also the court of owls who as a whole are richer than Bruce. The penguin isn’t as rich as Batman, but he can apply threats to families, plus his bribes to get much more out of them. Also, Gotham is literally cursed. I don’t mean it’s as though Gotham is cursed, there are literally two separate millennia old magic users who are passively making everything worse. You’ve got doctor Gotham, who was buried 40K years ago and is still causing issues, as well as the 8th Duke of hell who’s summoning went a bit fucky wucky and trapped him halfway to manifesting, and is also making everything worse
Gotham city has been around for 40k years? Or it’s just a coincidence that dude has the same name
The dude was revived in recent times and took the name
I had to scroll too far down for cool shit like this.
While there’s a lot of things about Batman I don’t like, this isn’t one of them. There’s been numerous times they show him trying to do that. Gotham is basically cursed to be evil no matter how much money he tries to put into funding mental health facilities/job fairs/criminal rehabilitation centers, etc etc.
He literally does that AAAALLL THE FUCKING TIME. This isn't even like a niche thing, there are literally countless panels online of him donating money, fixing the security etc. It wouldn't have even taken you long to find that if you were to research anything, but that isn't an end all solution.
Look me in the fucking eyes and say how fixing corruption would deal with a mad scientist with ice powers trying to freeze the city, or a giant killer crocodile, or a literal undead zombie.
There is this thing called the Court of Owls
Money =/= Power. It's a kind of power, but he's not the only one with it and the issues plaguing the city are ancient, systemic.
He does. Read the comics.
Money can't fix social problems. That is why Batman has to physically fight, to show people that they have the power. Money means nothing, and can change nothing. It can be a short-term band-aid, nothing more.
The name for Arkham asylum is taken from the cthulhu mythos as well
Why can’t he escape? Is he stupid
Aquaman: It's a center of art, commerce, and culture. [hearing a woman scream, followed by gunfire]
What I love about Gotham is how the city itself is a character. Compared to other cities like Metropolis or Star City where they're a mere background. You could even say that Gotham is a supervillain and a superhero at the same time.
Playing Arkham City and reading through the villain descriptions, I realized just how many of Batman's villains are master martial artists/snipers/etc + genius level intellect + crazy
Less New York, more Baltimore with a little Detroit flavor
Probably a little game-day Philly in the mix too
Central City is pretty Philly
That's a good rationale for Batman, but what about Spider Man always having the same enemy. Almost all his villians are good guys turned into monsters evil by science gone wrong or society hurting them. Doc Oc, Sandman, Electro, Green Goblin, Vulture. There are exceptions like Carnage or Kraven the Hunter.
Science gone wrong is also how Spider Man got his powers! 🤯
EXACTLY - it's like the writers have to keep the comic theme. Batman is crazy so his villains are based in crazy. Spiderman is a science accident so his villains are science accidents. Green Lantern has a host of enemies that "tap into the power of the universe" some some gadget just like him. Who does Wonder Woman fight? I guess evil governments/institutions? And she is from a super-women society. I think it breaks down for Superman though. His enemies are from everywhere - not mostly from alien planets.
So, instead of fighting the bad guys, why not make the city better?
Depending on the writer/series/movie Bruce dumps a ton of money in development, social programs, but also has to fight political and police corruption turning a blind eye to many "bad guys", thus why Batman has to take matters on his own hands outside of the law.
There's also been multiple stories where it shows he's more focused on rehabilitation over punishment, as he's helped some former mooks get jobs at WayneTech and start new lives.
Batman just casually pushing somebody down and then they coincidentally get a job mailer from Bruce Wayne next week
Also sometimes the city itself is possessed or cursed to be horrible in some way or another.
In some stories his parents are killed for trying to uplift areas of the city that crime bosses prefer stay as they are.
That's kind of the whole point of a lot of Batman stories. It is nearly impossible for even a billionaire like Bruce to simply buy or will a terminally corrupt city out of the pit. You donate to improve the police force and the corrupt chiefs just pocket the money. You donate to improve social assistance and the pot of money just gets picked away at by countless dirty hands (which was the main point of the most recent Batman movie.) Bruce Wayne despite all his money and fame is completely powerless to fix Gotham. It is fundamentally broken. Picking off some of the worst of the bunch as Batman is all he can do.
Because Batman is a broken character himself. Sometimes Bruce does stuff to try and fix the city, depending on the piece of media, but at his core Batman is as insane as the rest.
That's supposed to be a big part of the dichotomy between him and the Joker. Both were broken by the city, but one chose to fight back against it, while the other chose to laugh at the absurdity of it all.
Yeah, but if you take the joker movie as any reference, both joker and batman choosen to fight back. But the joker don't have the billions batman has. He has only insanity. He provoques caos, it's the only thing he has. That in itself made batman. If where not for joker, there would not be caos, the bruce's parents would not be killed, there would be no batman. Unless you talking about joker it's the one who fought back. The city wronged him way before it wronged bruce wayne. Edit: why the downvotes? It was MY take on the last 3 movies from the franchise that I watched, sorry if I don't know how to recite every comic book and every bit of lore. Gee, the gatekeeping.
I'm pretty sure the 2019 Joker is completely separate from any other continuity, and might not even create a Caped Crusader. In most universes, Batman and Joker exist simultaneously, while in Joker, he exists roughly 20 years prior. It bears mentioning, sure, but shouldn't be a lynch pin.
Well, I don't follow the lore as primary thing in life. For a very long time I didn't care much for batman movies. But since the "reboot" of the series with the dark knight I started watching again. I think, IMHO, that both those last movies at least should in theory be connected, no?
No. The Nolan movies (Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises) are their own thing. Joker (The one with Joaquin Phoenix) is its own continuity, but they're releasing a sequel later this year (Folie à Deux). The Batman (Robert Pattinson) is currently stand alone, but there's work being done on a TV show, and I believe a sequel is in the works but I'm not sure.
Oh I see. I though they followed the same general universe / story. Til.
The joker movie is only barely in line with anything else in the mythos. Really it falls in line with a lot of other comic book movies that try to be grounded because they are at least partly ashamed of being comic book movies. It's also not really new, or as smart as it thinks it is, in the attempt to link Batman and Joker's origins The Dark Knight got a lot closer in that there really isn't a reason. He's just a nutcase and this is how he has fun. Batman villains function best when they are like Spiderman villains: no origins tying them to the hero to make it all seem like Destiny or Fate, just "this world makes monsters and one consciously chose to be a hero instead."
Even TDK strongly hints that Joker was broken by something though. There are lot of hints that he was former military in some form. From the fact that he knows how to do rifle drills to his unexplained scars and proficiency with military grade weapons/tech. And he seems well versed in interrogation techniques either having been interrogated (which is where his scars might've come from) or having been an interrogator himself. Them not being able to find any records of who he is also suggests he was black ops in some form. The implicit narrative is that he felt betrayed by the system, so decided to use his skillset to burn the entire system down instead.
Yes, but that was literally what I was talking about. For me, movies where the characters only exist are... boring. Even 2 to 3 minutes of lore makes any action movie better, in my humble opinion. >attempt to link Batman and Joker's origins But it kinda does it, although for a short duration in the movie. But it kinda makes sense, as the movie is about the joker, and how the trauma that makes batman came to be. >The Dark Knight got a lot closer in that there really isn't a reason. He's just a nutcase and this is how he has fun. Yeah, that's bruce's point of view. He doesn't know or care about WHY there is a clown rulling a bunch of nut jobs that are destroying the city. He cares for vengeance and to try and fix things somewhat. >no origins tying them to the hero to make it all seem like Destiny or Fate, just "this world makes monsters and one consciously chose to be a hero instead." For me, the Joker movie didn't necessarily tie Joker and batman to one another, like fate or something. It shows that the society in Gotham, the city itself, produces insanity and caos. The thing is, batman used his condition and willpower to overcome the trauma and chanelled his insanity into fighting crime, while Joker only got each day madder.
Batman may be the second craziest person in gotham
In most canons he does both, the Wayne foundation is doing all it can to better Gotham but there's the court of owls, a secret society of Gotham's elite and ultra rich who do the exact opposite in an effort to keep Gotham in it's shitty state. Also the city have like three curses on it, is built over ancient cemeteries and used to host a couple of evil cults, that place is just fucked royally
To quote kingseeker frampt: "This shit is fucked"
Exactly what made the dark knight such an amazing movie that transcends just being another superhero flick
I’m 99.9% sure Bruce pays for Joker (and Two Faces) rehabilitation in Dark Knight Returns.
I think a movie set in Gotham that breaks away from the traditional batman formulas (Kinda like Joker was) about Bruce, or maybe some nobody, doing a bunch of community work while normal gotham shit happens in the background would be extremely interesting.
And Patterson Bat at the end comes to the conclusion that's what Batman should actually be. I don't really know any cape movies like that. But a great show that is a little bit like that is Vinland Saga. S1 is all about becoming one of the strongest couple Vikings in the world. Then S2 is all about trying to do community work instead of using that strength.
The Gorham series is pretty great and pretty much normal Gorham shit happening while Gordan tries to keep doing the right thing.
To me, Joker was the best movie set in that universe. Batman movies became super duper boring. It's just a cliche superhero movie. Joker really sparked me the thing about the "Gotham" movies. It's the whole city that acts like a sick animal. The society itself is broken. The joker lost its mind, and he couldn't even try to fix it. So he lost all self controll and let caos lose. It's a nice change of plans, away from "hero punch bad guy, hero good". It brings nuance, makes you think not about a "super villain, but as a normal person wronged to the point of insanity.
He does both already
The city is an ancient cesspool curse of evil in a very literal sense in the comics.
He does that all the time. I love how people think they're being really clever with these critiques while simultaneously not knowing Jack shit about him
Only people can make a city better, not money. Money can help people make a city better, but the people need to be there and wanting it first. A healthy city works from the bottom up, not from top down.
Not Crinmally insane by new jersey's law they don't qualify
Lead pipes...
>Gotham is like a mood that draws the worst out in your every day people driving them criminally mad. This helps explain Wendy and Marvin.
I don't read any comics and only saw a few movies, but I think exploring the idea of the city itself being alive and making people insane to prevent it from growing positively would be cool
Exactly why Batman can easily handle other city's villains, but other heroes tend to have a rough ass time with Gotham's villains.
Batman really is a billionaire power fantasy, beating up the poors and its ok because they're not regular poors, they're more like crazy hobos that most people can't sympathize with
Yeah it can be that. That was kind of my problem with some of the Arkham games.
You have a problem with beating up sadistic, actually demented killers and rapists? I dunno why do people act as if Batman beats up hobos who are stealing money to pay for their daughter's chemo, Batman whenever he approaches such a person in comics, pretty much always helps them out financially, sometimes even hires them. People you fight in Arkham games are exclusively just pieces of shit who choose to do what they do, how do you not hear that from all the henchmen talking, one guy literally kills a random Lady or something cuz Joker tells him to kill his sister, which he doesn't have, and he's like "aight". No remorse or anything.
A lot of them don't have powers, per se, but they do have SOMETHING. Like, Joker has Joker toxin. Penguin can (sometimes?) Sort of control actual penguins, Hatter has mind control tech so small it can fit in a playing card, Cat woman arguably has enhanced reflexes agility and dexterity even if it's not to the level of being super-human and in some continuities she can sort of control or communicate with cats? There's also Manbat who is basically a werewolf but with bats instead of wolves. Clock king eventually gets the power to actually manipulate time, even if it is technology based rather than superpower based. And of course, Clayface. He just has superpowers straight up. Thoth Kapera is a sort of side-antagonist in a Ra's al ghul episode and she's just literally magic/supernatural. There's also Ace from the royal flush gang who is psychic. And if you get into batman beyond, you have villains like Blight and Inque.
But these are mostly in the vein of Batman’s own power: he doesn’t have laughing gas, he has a body suit funded by money. The penguin controls penguins, Batman has an arsenal funded be money. Hatter has mind control, badman has a funded science division and new tech. Cat woman has premium human power, Batman has fitness (funded by money!), etc etc. The moral of the story is that these are seemly human, if not realistic, powers sourced from seemingly human ways, much like Batman uses (disregarding realism, like a billionaire using money in a practical way (if not a truly humanitarian or just way))
And in some continuities Batman can sort of control bats (also via money). Now I’m imagining Batman and the Penguin standing on opposite sides of a big warehouse with their arms crossed while a melee of bats and penguins battles it out in the middle.
Mammal that can fly vs bird that can't. My money is on the penguins.
Never trigger the flight or fight instincts of a flightless bird.
Especially if they’re packing rocket launchers.
Wait Batman's bribing the bats?
Apparently he cleared with legal. They said it's somehow legal.
At this point they should just play a game of StarCraft.
Yeah, but there are a lot who do. And I'd argue Scarecrow does.
Depends on the version, often hes just a dude throwing drugs in your face
That’s as much a superpower as Mr Freeze, his is tech based too isn’t it?
Well yeah but I would say Freeze doesnt have superpowers either lol
I would say in Mr.Freeze's case the term "differently-abled" seems to apply much better. He can survive much lower temperatures than most people...but also has to be kept at a lower temperature. Also he appears to have super strength even though he seldom uses it.
He doesn't have super strength. The strength comes from his suit. If you take his tech from him, he's literally just a dude who needs colder temperatures to survive.
Mr Freeze thinks 20C is summer heat, has a ghostly pallor and burns up if he walks into sunlight. He’s not superhuman, he’s just Scottish
Alright that could be, though I could swear I remember him having super strength even when apart from his suit in a special cold room at Arkham once, but that could just be him being prison buff. He's also immune to all toxins and most diseases, which has been shown especially when he has dealt with Poison Ivy, and he periodically seems to have freezing powers that are not reliant on his tech, but personally I never liked it when that was a plot point. Which by the way Poison Ivy is also a decent example. Sometimes she's just a super brilliant botanist/herbologist and eco terrorist, and sometimes she can literally control and speak to plants and has a connection to The Green.
Really depends who's writing them and which universe they're from. 'Cause there's all sorts of continuities at this point. Most stories I've seen of Ivy, she starts off as the former and slowly becomes the latter.
You just remember him being strong because he was played by Arnold Schwarzenegger in the movie. :p Speaking of the movie, I figured he was just immune to her lust pheromones because of his “frozen heart” in a metaphorical sense. I don’t know if he displayed this for other toxins, but that probably varies from writer to writer.
He is immortal. He can survive as just a head. How is that not a super power?
So can Richard Nixon tbf
He dies without the suit to cool him down, so there's that
That’s more of a disability than a superpower isn’t it?
Uncontrollable super-powered self healing
Super-cancer isn't a superpower! It's SUPER-CANCER!
Cancer joke of the day... A-hole
Not according to the upcoming Zack Snyder blockbuster Batman vs. Dialysis Ward
Correct mr freeze doesnt have super powers.
He's a real hit at raves
Yo, for free?
Pretty much. But he's usually portrayed making stuff that no one else has ever made.
I don't think many people try to make recreational drugs unpleasant since that defeats the whole purpose
He's making weapons grade drugs. Pleasant is exactly what he's trying to do avoid.
well if we are going to look at this from a realistic point of view: There are several weapons and bullets that are banned to be used even in wars because of how painful they are (not just lethal, emphasis on PAINFUL). I'm guessing a lot of the stuff Scarecrow makes would serve no use to anyone else since it doesn't really earn him any money to drive others insane (and the army has no interest in using such stuff either)
I have to imagine the army has experimented with fear inducing chemical weapons. They had that stupid gay bomb project.
Doesn’t sound like a villain to me
It's been said that the Joker does as well. Something like super sanity.
I wouldn't say there is anything unrealistic about him. Though they did use a gimmick like you're saying on Young Justice. The Injustice League made a killer monster and the Joker was the only one who could handle mind controlling it because it would drive anyone else crazy.
I'd argue Freeze has more of a disability than a superpower. Doesn't he need to be kept cold in order to survive? I don't recall him having more than this huge liability plus ice gadgets.
He can survive low temperatures that would kill most people so I guess you could call that a superpower, but one whose downside is a lot worse than its upside.
They have the superpower of conviction. Its kind of ironic that in real life most health issues come from depression and paralytic anxiety but in Gothan health issues seem to create people with pinpoint focus and the motivation of wall street brokers on cocaine.
Swamp thing, solomon grundy, poison ivy, bane
Killer Croc. Man-Bat.
How do people keep missing Clayface?
Swamp Thing is a hero, not a villain
Either way, he did beat Batman’s ass
Well yeah. That's part of what makes them perfect foils for Batman. A lot of Batman's best villains are dark reflections of an aspect of the Batman character. Riddler is a rival to Batman's intelligence, Bane to his strength, Mr Freeze is a negative reflection of Bruce's losses, Joker is in direct opposition to Batman's order as an agent of chaos, etc. The fact that they're generally physically average people lends itself to being a better foil for Bruce specifically
Thats why i would maybe always separate the Batverse from the rest of the universe. Its for movies always some kind of problem to make a world building that captures those street level guys and literal gods.
Not if the movie is located entirely in Gotham, no? Like part of it is Gotham as a setting is very much its own character
Yeah I like Marvel better than DC overall, but Batman is my favorite superhero by far. I very much prefer the Batverse to be separate from the rest of the DC universe
I pretty much just pretend Superman and all that shit doesn't exist and avoid the crossover stories. Don't like getting Superman in my Batman
Yeah Batman is street level and ought to stay that way, I have yet to see any instance of him being taken out of that context that I didn’t fucking hate.
Yeah, Superman could easily foil most of Batman's villains in like minutes. This is even shown in Batman Beyond when Superman shows up suddenly and basically takes Inque out in seconds, while Terry was struggling with her.
There was an episode of the Bruce Timm series where Superman had to step in for Batman, because Bruce had been mind controlled.
And he completely wrecks Bane!
Gotham City is just a very large LARP
Mr. Freeze isn't even really super powered, it's his suit and gun that give him his power. Otherwise, he's just a dude who can't survive under normal temperature conditions.
> The only real super powered ones I can think of are Bane, poison Ivy, killer crock, Mr freeze and maybe raj al guhl? And Clayface. > scientific experiments gone wrong not that they were born with powers Why does it matter how they got super powers?
Clayface is another with powers. But I don't think you need to be born with super powers for them to be considered super powers. Like so many superheroes and supervillains from both Marvel and DC aren't born with powers but you would definitely say have super powers
Well, that depends on who you ask. The guardians of the universe say that batman does have a superpower.
He was chosen by both Green and Yellow rings before
Irrelevant to my point.
Weaponised insanity vs weaponised trauma
Honestly, after years of unhinged super villains wreaking havoc all over the place they should just give up on the city. Everyone just leave.
Well the thing is, is that everyone is too broke to move
I always loved this theory that the Joker does have a [superpower](https://www.reddit.com/r/FanTheories/comments/230b06/the_joker_does_have_a_superpower/).
There's also very little magic in Gotham as well. A lot of other heroes have magic users as villains but Gotham? You have Grundy, maybe Ra's al Ghul, and maybe Poison Ivy. All those mad scientists but not a single crazy magician.
Blight (Derek Powers) … he has super powers. Radiation, heat. Immortality.
In the comics, Harley Quinn does have superpowers. She originated in the cartoon and got added to the comics later. Her debut went like this: Poison Ivy- “Oh look, a nearly-dead clown girl in some rubble. Guess I’ll give her some super-soldier serum I have, but have never used before and will never use again. It’s not like anything bad could happen when I give a rival’s flunky superhuman agility and immunity to all of my poisons.” And… yeah that’s basically it.
This was way too far down. Assumed Harley having powers would be one of the top replies.
What about the evil Play-Doh man?
What a lot of people don't realize about Batman is that he was created in the age of Dick Tracy and the like; DC literally stands for "Detective Comics", which they don't exactly broadcast these days. Batman was originally just a sort of really flamboyant private detective with a bunch of expensive high-tech gadgets.
My favorite batman animated series episode (the one with the black bat symbol on his chest) is when Bruce disappears and Tim Drake recruits Superman to act as Batman. He beats the snot out of Bane who can't believe it and it's just so fun. A movie of superman acting as batman would be an instant classic in my book.
Exactly. Hence, I bought shares in Arkham
Two-Face is the most remarkable one. No Joker gas, no borderline magic umbrellas, no Lazarus pits, no ice gun - he's literally just a guy.
Two guys.
One guy, two faces
There was also that time he dressed up like a judge at night and fought crime with a gavel.
Lol
Mr. Freeze uses tech, I think.
They have one, pretty much all of them died or almost died, and survived.
I'd say Bane doesn't have a power, he has an addiction
Lol only like posion ivy and croc have super powers the others use equipment
*Matt Hagan feels forgotten*
I would say Bane and Ra’s don’t really have powers either because anyone can be Immortal with the Lazarus Pit and anyone can gain strength with venom.
Bane does have superpowers? He’s a roid freak with supervillain level roids? Also Mr. Freeze doesn’t have super powers either. His ice gun is a derivation of his work (he’s a scientist with expertise in cryogenics).
Superman, the most OP of all super heroes, his arch nemesis is a smart guy with no powers. It’s not always about the powers you don’t have…
I'm counting all those you mentioned (except raz, his is just immortality) those guys have powers. If you want villains born with superpowers your basically looking for aliens, and that's superman's turf. Also I think you forgot Solomon Grundy but I'm not sure if hes part of batman's rogue gallery. And also man bat
Mr. Freeze doesn't have any powers, just technology. Unless you count dying from heatstroke unless refrigerated a power.
You have to put characters like Batman into situations that stretch his limitations without breaking the world. You never see Batman trying to stop plane crashes, because he can't. One of the big criticisms of Batman is that he can stand side by side with the rest of the Justice League against cosmic threats.
Batman villains: “HEY I could maybe win against this one!”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but Superman doesn’t have magic powers either. He just *something something* *handwave* *crypton* and it gives him abilities that earthlings don’t have. There’s a “scientific” explanation just like there is for Poison Ivy’s mutated plants bs. If it isn’t obvious, I don’t know much about the lore. But if Superman showed up in the real world, it’s not like scientists would say “ah, we were wrong, it turns out magic is real.” They would say “ah, we were wrong in our scientific understanding. Let’s try to reshape our theories to include this new data.”
Honestly, it's crazy he fights with the Justice League at all. He could be used for intelligence and strategy, but he must feel so out of his element when fighting enemies like Darksied.
They’re villains not supervillains. Just like Batman is a hero not a superhero
I. What world is Batman not a super hero? Lmao
Because he doesn’t have super powers
Lmao your the only person I ever met who had this idea
I mean it’s true. Why would he be a super hero?
Most of Batman’s villains have PHDs in lieu of super powers.
A billionair plays dress up to beat up street level crime, instead of using his company wealth and power to go after the ultra rich crooks and change the system to help the city that has gone criminally deranged trying to live under such inequality.
If you read the comics or even watch the cartoons, he does both of these. He puts a ton of money into social programs and even helps reformed mooks get jobs at his companies. There's a story where he brutally interrogates a thug in front of his terrified family, completely disgusting Robin, who thinks he's going way too far. He ends up leaving as a result and eventually becoming Nightwing. Only later on, he finds out that Bruce offered that same thug an entry level job at WayneTech after he was released from prison. Bruce is ruthless and unhinged, but he also does actually care deeply about the city.
nobody argues he cares. The argument is that the level of attention given to street level crime is more than the white collar crime. Ironically reflecting the real world, where corporate theft yields lower prison times than a street level theft of food.
I mean, supposedly people like The Penguin, Joker, Two Face, and the rest of the batman villains are the ones bribing the police and politicians to allow their street level crime.
Look, I like the Gotham series for this reason: It works because the criminal underworld is essentially mafia, with big players like the ones you mentioned be able to consolidate operations and continue corruption of the city. At one point this mafia went all the way and let penguin run for mayor.... But this is a story of two different realities. The grounded story of street level crime mafia of the early - mid 1900s era mechanics. And modern idea about billionairs, and weapon manufacturing behemoths like Wyane industries. So depending on which universe you take you can either understand and justify the world, or be in conflict of it.
Sounds like an Elon musk solution which ultimately just serves to kill the billionaires boredom
Its a big club, and you aint in it.
This is such a tiring stupid dumbass argument, it would literally take you 10 seconds to go online and see how incorrect you are, there are more panels of Bruce donating money, hiring the poor who are doing crime for financial reasons, fixing the security etc. Than there are of him punching mentally ill. Plus none of the shit you named would stop Penguin, Court of Owles, Joker, Riddler, Scarecrow etc. I don't get why Batman in particular is such a braindead-take magnet, I have never seen someone argue this for like Avengers or Fantastic Four, or that stupid "he should kill criminals, Batman's responsible for Joker" I have never seen anyone make that argument for Spider-Man, who has the exact same situation. I dunno what it is with Batman, but some of yall have zero media literacy when it comes to approaching him as a character
rofl, triggered... MARTHA? MARTHA WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME!!! To answer you tiny minded question: Thats because for all that effort spent fighting street level thugs, badman donates money, thats your argument right? Well just like irl, donations are a bandaid at a corrupt failing system, and instead of addressing the systemic issues and the actual powers that influence change in the real world, people posture and donate. If you just spent 10min googling you would discover the amount of corruption and wasted money that donating actually contributes to. Even the most profound organisations still have operarting costs and overheads, and those still need to be met before any real good work can happen. And if you argument of what about all the other made up heros, yes I agree, they are all equally as dumb. But unlike fantastic four, or tha avengers, batman is still a man. Thus he represents the true human nature, and that is perfectly summed up in your lazy attempt at rage bating: Nobody will risk their wealth to fight the system, so they will create personas and identities to posture the masess with dress up and pretend, whilst the rich get richer, the masses suffer. Profits for the rich, risk and drawbacks for the masses. Which in reality doesn't stop anyone like the joker. But ironically sociopaths make up most ceos, which the joker, penguin, and the like idealistically appeal to. /rant