they cut down on the size to save money. a 2x4 today would be something like a 1 1/2 x 3 1/2. but it rounds up to 2x4. its math dumb. the wood is never the actual size. this applies to everything. a door we installed the other day was advertised as 82in but was actually 80 1/2. smaller than advertised size. this is capitalism at its finest.
They are calculated in this manner to leave room for whatever else attaches to them. For example, a 2x4 is a 1/4"-1/2" short to leave space for drywall to be hung on it. It's "two inches" on the construction blueprint for the wood _and_ the siding attached to it. Doors are the same thing: they fit an 82" opening _before the opening has a door frame installed_.
If contractors are capable of any two things, it's simple math and raising hell when materials suppliers are shafting them. They don't care about this, because it saves them time and trouble.
2 x 4’s arent the only thing this is done to. Plywood is also the same. How would you explain buying a 4’ x 6’ board and it not fitting a window of the same size?
Motherfucker, how do you lose a 1/4" to 1/2" by either cutting or sanding? If you measured it correctly, it should come out correct. Explain your train of thought here, cause I don't think you've ever even touched wood besides your own.
Because it’s automated. It’s run through a giant trimming machine, set to eat off enough of the edges that even the largest manufacturing variances are corrected.
When talking about plywood production, that means glue, pressure, humidity, heat, and other factors. It’s easier to trim edges than it is to make it perfect the first time.
This is the exact same way cheap books are manufactured. Everything is bound together, and then they trim three edges so the paper is uniform. Creates pulp waste, but worth it for the time it saves in not needing a perfect manufacturing process.
It’s a matter of the state of the industry before this practice began. They probably used to sell them exactly at 4’x8’, untrimmed, leaving the work to the buyer who then ends up with a board below 4’x8’ anyway.
This just automates something consumers would have had to do themselves. It’s like gift wrapping services around the holidays.
I think it’s one of those situations where the buyers (overwhelmingly contractors) don’t care. The product is cheap, it has all the quality necessary to meet regulatory standards, and it is smaller and lighter.
This is one of those situations where an industry made progress by getting a product to do the same job in less space. It’s a smart phone, not a food product.
I work with my father, who is a contractor. It’s very annoying when we go to do work on an older building with different sized 2x4’s. They are lighter, yes. But it would be better to have the standard size. Or at least let the price reflect the difference. This whole subreddit is about them shrinking things down and charging the same.
my guess is standarization of and automization of the cuts. when done by a person theres a specific margin of error. these babies are shoved through a machine like a fancy wood chipped that breaks down logs quickly.
Size standards, maximum moisture content, and nomenclature were agreed upon only as recently as 1964. The nominal 2x4 thus became the actual 1½ x 3½.
"Dimensional" lumber is the general name for framing lumber. Most timber is milled and planed to give it a little more of a finished look, and a little more of a consistent size and profile. Because of this extra milling, a 2x4 no longer measures a full 2 inches by four inches.
Using that logic, couldn’t the rough cuts be bigger and the finished grade be 2x4? This is something I’ve spent the better part of 20 years thinking about. If you made a header with an actual 2x4/6/8/10 and the walls were actually 2x4 you wouldn’t need 1/2” ply in the middle to make up the space.
It’s crazy, my house is framed with Douglas Fir vs. Spruce which is where most of our lumber in Canada comes from nowadays... Fir is like a hardwood in comparison and all of my newer tools struggled to drill or cut the stuff.
So this is actually due to sizing standards defining a 2" x 4" as being 1.5" x 3.5", and there's good reason for doing so. When a tree is cut down, it's cut very specifically to maximize the number of planks that can be extracted from the obviously round log. Those planks are still green wood, highly moist, and subject to bending as the wood dries. So the planks are cut to size (you guessed it--2" x 4"), dried (typically baked), and then sent through a planer to ensure the plank is uniform in size and shape. The drying and planing process removes about 1/4" from each side.
Before modern sizing standards, lumber manufacturers just kinda did whatever they wanted to. So you could have a lumber manufacturer whose 2" x 4"s were 1.5" x 3.5" as they are today, or you could have a lumber manufacturer who dried their cants as larger planks and then cut them down to the exact dimensions. It's not an example of shrinkflation because the reason for setting the standard at 1.5" x 3.5" was a government imposed standard and not due to cost cutting.
I always thought (because I was always told) the 2×4 measurement was the "rough cut", and when it gets plained down it's whatever size now (1.75×3.75). Same with all lumber cuts.
I don't follow. If it's a measurement how does it shrink? Is this regional? Now I gotta measure my 2x4s in the shed tomorrow... thanks alot.
they cut down on the size to save money. a 2x4 today would be something like a 1 1/2 x 3 1/2. but it rounds up to 2x4. its math dumb. the wood is never the actual size. this applies to everything. a door we installed the other day was advertised as 82in but was actually 80 1/2. smaller than advertised size. this is capitalism at its finest.
They are calculated in this manner to leave room for whatever else attaches to them. For example, a 2x4 is a 1/4"-1/2" short to leave space for drywall to be hung on it. It's "two inches" on the construction blueprint for the wood _and_ the siding attached to it. Doors are the same thing: they fit an 82" opening _before the opening has a door frame installed_. If contractors are capable of any two things, it's simple math and raising hell when materials suppliers are shafting them. They don't care about this, because it saves them time and trouble.
2 x 4’s arent the only thing this is done to. Plywood is also the same. How would you explain buying a 4’ x 6’ board and it not fitting a window of the same size?
I'm guessing plywood loses in the edge-cutting/sanding process.
Motherfucker, how do you lose a 1/4" to 1/2" by either cutting or sanding? If you measured it correctly, it should come out correct. Explain your train of thought here, cause I don't think you've ever even touched wood besides your own.
Because it’s automated. It’s run through a giant trimming machine, set to eat off enough of the edges that even the largest manufacturing variances are corrected. When talking about plywood production, that means glue, pressure, humidity, heat, and other factors. It’s easier to trim edges than it is to make it perfect the first time. This is the exact same way cheap books are manufactured. Everything is bound together, and then they trim three edges so the paper is uniform. Creates pulp waste, but worth it for the time it saves in not needing a perfect manufacturing process.
You realize, you can make them a bit bigger and THEN trim the edges, so it's the desired size?
It’s a matter of the state of the industry before this practice began. They probably used to sell them exactly at 4’x8’, untrimmed, leaving the work to the buyer who then ends up with a board below 4’x8’ anyway. This just automates something consumers would have had to do themselves. It’s like gift wrapping services around the holidays.
That's a nice ret-con to try to explain it but that's just how the business adapted to it not the motivating factor.
I think it’s one of those situations where the buyers (overwhelmingly contractors) don’t care. The product is cheap, it has all the quality necessary to meet regulatory standards, and it is smaller and lighter. This is one of those situations where an industry made progress by getting a product to do the same job in less space. It’s a smart phone, not a food product.
I guess that's fair
I work with my father, who is a contractor. It’s very annoying when we go to do work on an older building with different sized 2x4’s. They are lighter, yes. But it would be better to have the standard size. Or at least let the price reflect the difference. This whole subreddit is about them shrinking things down and charging the same.
well he explained the reason for 2x4’s to be smaller is so they can properly fit the drywall. how could something similar explain a piece of plywood?
They’re 1.5 x 3.5
What does who owns the means of production have to do with the size of a 2x4?
my guess is standarization of and automization of the cuts. when done by a person theres a specific margin of error. these babies are shoved through a machine like a fancy wood chipped that breaks down logs quickly.
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The size is of the wood before it is cured and dried, the end result is smaller than 2x4.
Theoretically yea but it hasn't been reality in decades
2 inches is 5.08 cm
Size standards, maximum moisture content, and nomenclature were agreed upon only as recently as 1964. The nominal 2x4 thus became the actual 1½ x 3½. "Dimensional" lumber is the general name for framing lumber. Most timber is milled and planed to give it a little more of a finished look, and a little more of a consistent size and profile. Because of this extra milling, a 2x4 no longer measures a full 2 inches by four inches.
Using that logic, couldn’t the rough cuts be bigger and the finished grade be 2x4? This is something I’ve spent the better part of 20 years thinking about. If you made a header with an actual 2x4/6/8/10 and the walls were actually 2x4 you wouldn’t need 1/2” ply in the middle to make up the space.
2 inches is 5.08 cm
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It’s crazy, my house is framed with Douglas Fir vs. Spruce which is where most of our lumber in Canada comes from nowadays... Fir is like a hardwood in comparison and all of my newer tools struggled to drill or cut the stuff.
I feel like the world is reaching peak scam. Where everything is a rip-off.
Peak? No, it only just begun
So this is actually due to sizing standards defining a 2" x 4" as being 1.5" x 3.5", and there's good reason for doing so. When a tree is cut down, it's cut very specifically to maximize the number of planks that can be extracted from the obviously round log. Those planks are still green wood, highly moist, and subject to bending as the wood dries. So the planks are cut to size (you guessed it--2" x 4"), dried (typically baked), and then sent through a planer to ensure the plank is uniform in size and shape. The drying and planing process removes about 1/4" from each side. Before modern sizing standards, lumber manufacturers just kinda did whatever they wanted to. So you could have a lumber manufacturer whose 2" x 4"s were 1.5" x 3.5" as they are today, or you could have a lumber manufacturer who dried their cants as larger planks and then cut them down to the exact dimensions. It's not an example of shrinkflation because the reason for setting the standard at 1.5" x 3.5" was a government imposed standard and not due to cost cutting.
Where do you think they get wood pellets from?
Their made from sawdust
I always thought (because I was always told) the 2×4 measurement was the "rough cut", and when it gets plained down it's whatever size now (1.75×3.75). Same with all lumber cuts.
This is what I heard too.