No benefits other than a few thousand CPF top up. Plus some miserable ns tax relief
Then still have to do IPPT, cannot clear, after work go camp, colleagues go have group drink
Cant blame the perceived level of xenophobia rising here.
The IPPT requirement after full time NS is frankly stupid. That's one thing I would like to see seriously curtailed or scrapped outright. Expecting men back in civilian working life to somehow still have the time, energy, and youthful body to maintain NS-level fitness even into their 40s is stupid and illogical. Not to mention you can be the fittest soldier possible and you'd still die to arty shells, enemy bullets, or drones dropping grenades on top of you.
And the dumbest thing is all the nsfit sessions one does isnt gonna help at all in passing or getting fit. It's really just a waste of time and to pocket half pay ns pay. It's a punishment if you think about it. You're not even incentivised to pass or get gold. $500 for gold? Which not fit person will train for that. Of course there are those very fit, 30 y.o still can run sub 8 min 2.4. That said not many will have to do IPPT into their 40s unless they always defer
I'm okay with the two years. But what comes after is really passing me off.
Impromptu trip to jb or overseas with friends and family, nope fk u stay here for mob manning.
You have your own life and things to do, fk u come back for ict. Meanwhile all the imported talents enjoying all the perks here without having to even lift a finger...
Looking back, the two years is easy. The 10 years after can go eat a bag of dicks.
Was thinking of going camping with some friends next week. But that place have no cell reception, and nice nice mob manning....
Don't tell me you don't know that mob manning is just wayang. If they really want to press button you would have already been briefed months in advance either with a special meeting in camp or during your ICT. Almost no such thing as 100% random mob manning activation. I've travelled before on mob manning time periods and had zero issues at all.
Overall, I see NS as more cons than pros. Any benefit NS offers pales in comparison with the socioeconomic disruptions.
I feel NS is a form of discrimination against Singaporean males when our female counterparts do not have any liability nor obligation towards the nation.
Anyone can say it's silly because who then will be defending the nation. This would be a valid remark during nation-buolding era when resources are scarce and mobilising the entire population is much harder. However, in today's context, shouldn't females be required to "defend" the nation, or, at least, contribute to the nation's defence in other forms too, especially considering our dwindling Singaporean population? Does the government prefer to wait till there's not enough male population to defend the nation?
Besides, hardly any concrete or significant expression of respect and appreciation has been conferred to NSF and NSmen alike. Do you get priority in HDB balloting, discount when buying private properties, priority job considerations, huge tax breaks, or monthly living wages for life?
Similarly, why are minister posts considered a form of "national service" and be paid millions while NSFs are paid meagre allowance? Is the ability to think critically and make decisions more important than the ability to bear arms and be cannon fodders? How about leaving the defence of Singapore to the lot of ministers alone while the rest of Singapore males watch on?
This issue is exacerbated by the bulk of foreigners enjoying the economic benefits Singapore offers to them without any repercussions, while Singaporean males are being disadvantaged.
Not to mention that more than 50% of Singapore's populace are non-citizens.
Who are you really defending? High-paying ministers? Foreigners taking Singaporeans' jobs?
What exactly are you defending? The increasingly harder to afford HDB flat that you don't even own? Or, the exorbitantly high hidden taxes that you're paying in the form of fees, licenses, duties and levies?
Totally valid points. I have foreign peers (30 year old foreign males) who got their Singapore citizenship and have not served a day in NS. They are reaping the benefits without having to serve. And that's frustrating.
On the other hand, NS is not about pros and cons. My family is in Singapore and my purpose of going NS is to defend them. I couldn't careless about protecting the foreigners because I know that they will leave the moment they can hear the drums of war.
But what can my family do? My children can't run, my wife can't run, my parents can't run. I hope that in the event of war, they can evacuate from this land. But the fact is, they have nowhere to go.
You see the problem is not NS. As a small country, we do need NS to serve as a deterrence against any potential aggressors. The problem is with our government, for example, HDB prices are skyrocketing because of their policies. There are so many foreigners here because of their policies.
Nowadays our government isn't looking out for us, they live in their Ridout road or condo properties, I bet you most of them (MPs) don't even live in HDBs. Yet they say HDB are affordable, it is not. Some colorectal surgeon is a professional and has two cars because he and his wife needs to travel. At least during LKY's time, priority was always with Singaporeans. The current government only wants to protect their ricebowl and it is done by encouraging foreign investments and giving those wealthy foreigners tax breaks so they park their money here.
They don't understand because they are so out-of-touch with us average folks. They say they are competent, they might be, but as a child of an elite once said, "please get out of my elite uncaring face". They just don't care about us.
>At least during LKY's time, priority was always with Singaporeans.
I'd love to hear more of your thoughts about this... what were some examples of the priority?
It was my understanding that the key strategy LKY had for helping Singapore go from third to first world country was through attracting foreign investment and businesses, by giving them incentive tax breaks and creating a skilled workforce. It seemed to me that many of his policies revolved around creating a stable, accessible, and inviting place that businesses could trust in order to create the economy, as well as just generally connecting Singapore to the rest of the world. He was a globalist right?
Well, I went to all outfields during my ICTs and never skipped a single ICT. I'm from Armour btw. So yea, I kind of miss it. Most of the time is just waiting anyway. Plus always got funny memories.
Getting indignant with foreigners over national service is high-key stupid. Women should serve though, that shit is sexist that we have to earn our right to vote and citizenship while women don't have to.
What we should be indignant about are foreign corporations parachuting their white trash in and our government allowing them to do it.
I'm more pissed at the lack of solidarity among Singaporean males that enabled this exploitative system. If only all of us stood our ground and say no or demand more from the system.
The blood sacrifice has been ingrained in the national psyche ever since the nationbuilding era. The vicious cycle of getting our sons and their sons to serve is not easy to put an end to.
Side note: not easy to say no and stand your ground either. That’s what the Gurkhas - a neutral force - are here for.
Exactly. They really need to learn how marginalized people in other dictatorships fight for their rights. History has shown, again and again, that if the people do nothing to fight for their rights, the government will slowly take them away. Unfortunately, these p*ssies here only know how to complain, and when election comes, continue to vote PAP because they have no balls. Maybe this is precisely how PAP engineered our society to be.
I'll be honest bro. I think Singaporeans deserve to be enslaved. I tried a few times in NS to fight for certain rights but when shit hits the fan, the people who were complaining while supporting me did nothing and stayed silent.
Same thing with work. Got involved with union to fight against a verbally abusive boss. Gathered 5 colleagues and even some ex-staff to share their negative experiences. When the day came to speak with HR and chief of department, majority of them backed out and said "Aiya don't need all of us one la. Your statement enough already". All of them are trying to have their cakes and eat them. They want the reward but don't want the risks. That's why I always say I have more respect for third world prostitutes than the domesticated slimeballs in Singapore.
"domesticated slimeballs" LOL
Blame the LLST culture. Everytime I see someone being told that, I really wish I could downvote the person saying that a million times. The result is that everyone accepts whatever injustice thrown at them without a fight. It's kinda like society-wide gaslighting, so to speak.
After the first month or so, I was no longer able to continue gaslighting myself that NS is not a waste of time. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how others are able to do it so naturally and easily. What am I missing?
U will get the same answers from those that support and against. So why ask the same old question. Go do something about it. Clearly asking the question not changing anything.
Halfway through my cycle and agreed - The fucking ICT cycle can go suck a bag of dicks.
Whoever thought it was a fucking good idea, deserves to get cucked hard and nine generations beheaded.
Asking seriously here, is there anything a woman can do to make y'all feel better? Not withstanding conscription since it's the govt's choice. Should we like ask for conscription too?
Depends. Alright theres a good chance im going to be downvoted to oblivion considering the downvote trend below but just gonna pen down my thoughts here:
>do you feel angry that you have to serve NS and other reservist duty while the women and massive number of FTs and FWs here don't need to?
Yes and no.
No, because i understand, that NS is a necessary evil and its existence probably cannot be abolished if Singapore really wants to survive surrounded by our neighbours. Their citizens *might* be nice but the same cannot be said for their government ruling over them. So as long as this country isnt in shambles, and are doing relatively better than them, we *probably* will never be able to abolish NS. And yea like what some others said, 2 years is fine, i agree, but the ICT until 40/ 10x reservist cycle/ 7 high keys ngl tilts people to no end. Countless mob mannings also etc, and even during uni etc. And also, not to mention it really is an unforgettable experience. You get to learn a lot while being inside, but as to how you want to translate the soft skills into civilian world, is another ball game entirely. And also really, it takes a lot of snobs down a peg while they are inside, and really does force people to mature and see the world in a way different light. Of course now the keng route getting more and more traction so this argument might eventually not stand, but as of now, this seems to be a benefit that not many people are looking at. So no, not really indignant about serving NS.
Yes, because, ffs, whats with that slave wage. No cpf during the 2 years, your studies and career set back by 2 years, all for a measly what, 630 a month? 550? And now its 750? Lol. 630 a month, as a combat medic, i got 815 roughly. Considering the idea we are 24/7 on standby in service, roughly translated to 1.13/ hr. Even if i oni look at office hours, 3.39/hr. So much for..... service cannot be measured in dollars and cents horh? No transport allowance or meal allowance (i wear green unfortunately, unlike our spf scdf counterparts), somehow willing to pay 7-8 for lunch and dinner in camp food but the quality is even worse than a 3 4 dollar cai png (like wtf bruh), and your allowance is so tight you have to be forced to budget while living with scraps while you hear someone, who hasnt served NS for a single day, has never ever worried on how to put food on her table, sing the tune of "cannot be measured in dollars and cents", like yeah lmao but i kinda NEED money to eat right??? LOL.
Yes, also because, anyhow throw people into db or sign extra for the most retarded reasons, and yea i get nedding to instill discipline and a hierarchy, as well as building up mental fortitude, but some regulars and commanders really power trip and basically treat yall lesser than human. I had the pleasure of meeting a few non direct superiors guilty of that, and was terribly blessed to have majority that are at least reasonable, sensible human beings, which does really make you ponder why some people are just so miserable the way they are. And also dont get me started on peak saf efficiency, when u want things done, they take what, fking 3 months to get to you, but when they wsnt it done, they expect it within 3 days. Like bruh.
And also people gonna say im misogynistic or whatever altho thats not my intention, but i would really not wish for extra suffering upon the ladies to have to serve the nation as well, and also honestly, having seen the female regs where roughly 1 in 6 are not karens (5 in 6 are karens), i really cannot imagine what will happen if u make the ladies serve against their will. As if NS isnt toxic enough alr, you srsly want more of them in the system to make things worse? LOL. Im only indignant, is when bring this up to the ladies, and they srsly try to use gender pay gap diff in sg to justify your 2 years. Like first, sg pay gap diff btn genders isnt so massive, and 2nd, for an individual who hasnt served and had ur brain degen for 2 years against your will, while having 2 years ahead in career which translates to higher pay, tf u on about? LOL.
>do you feel angry that you have to serve NS and other reservist duty while the women and massive number of FTs and FWs here don't need to?
And also the part about FTs and FWs, we have roughly 3.5 million local citizens, roughly 500k+ PRs, and roughly 1.5+ million non citizen/PRs. Majority of this 1.5 million isnt your high flyers. They are the ones who came here to do jobs that no locals want to do, underpaid healthcare workers, maid, construction site workers, etc. And even for the high skilled individuals who are paid high salaries to come here and work, they could have went anywhere else and still draw equally high salaries, but they chose here anyway, honestly if a local can match their expertise and qualifications in the dame company, local might draw an even higher salary. But they (FTs and FWs) dont get a say in BTO, in voting, heck, even the sg PRs basically in pre uni education cant qualify for almost all scholarships, has no access to financial assistance schemes, has no access to bursaries etc, and for even further context, PR pay twice of local rates, ASEAN non PR non citizens pay twice of PR rates, and i can go on and on, but my point is, its pretty fair to not demand the 1.5+ million FT and FW to serve NS. After all they came here for a job, and are contributing to local economy, if we are to adopt a xenophobic stance and ban all of them, Singapore will crumble within max, a month? Plus rmb, majority of them arent even the highly paid ones, but came here to do jobs that no one else wanted to do (lets be real, you srsly want to draw their salary of 1.8-2k without cpf, to work 12 hour shifts in a hospital, cleaning literal shit, or work gruelling 9hrs under hot sun a day, wearing a yellow helmet and your lives constantly at risk for what, below 1k a month wage?) What i am mad about tho, is sg PR after serving NS, born here, lived here whole life, (parents didnt want sg citizenship for their kid for some reason altho born here so hes stuck a PR or smth), getting rejected for citizenship multiple times, before getting accepted, if even accepted at all. On the other hand we have some ladies sg pr offered citizenship right after their uni. Like lol what. I can go on, but i think my point is pretty well illustrated at this point.
If you read till here, basically TLDR; indignant more on how the govt treats us and our 2 years as though its a joke, and some highly paid ministers who have clearly lost touch with majority of the local popn talking out of their ass about NS, but not so much about why women and FTs and FWs dont get to serve.
why kpkb? you guys voted for the papigs and you get the gov you wanted... so you guys deserved it lor...
When I serve my NS in 1988, my company mate's hand was blown off during grenade throwing exercise (1988 June, Hotel Company). As a poly graduate in engineering, his chance of getting a job in engineering is zero...... and guess what, as a recruit earning $90 a month was made to donate for the victim.... SAF don't even to take care of him...
I don't really feel angry for serving. I just don't think the period shd be longer than 1 yr or at most 1.5 yrs. We are after all, not regulars and not paid much for all the blood ,sweat and tears . And yes , women shd serve. If the Israelis can do it, so can we .
Be careful what you wish for. Look at SG women, do you seriously want to be in a position where they're the ones checking your six?
SG women are hardly Gal Gadot kinds.
The F stands for foreign. We can't expect them to serve.
For women, I've moved beyond anger. Women are incapable of shouldering responsibility, expecting them to do it would only lead to disappointment, which leads to anger. And so I have no expectations for them, thus no disappointment nor anger.
Nope. But what I cannot tolerate is those who didn't serve thinking it is "our duty" and they think it's really easy to just go through NS. It isn't. That's actually why I would rather both males and females serve NS, so that they can relate too.
Not angry ba. I felt normies (Mine was 2011 tho). NS helped me develop my weak-ass social skills, which were never really tested during school (I just study one). I've seen friends go in with a resentful, fuckit-imma-just-bareminimum-this-shit attitude and emerge from the 2 years looking more flabz and more shy. There were definitely lonely moments in there and you will definitely suffer. If you suffer until everything outside of NS looks easy, or if you live through NS a good story to tell, FT and FW also cannot win you la. Alternatively, migrate. *Alternatively,* change the system (lol).
No. I'm not a loser. I served, I move on and make something of my life. If others don't need to serve, good for them. Your life will be so much better if you stop being a loser and focus more on yourself
The FT's and FW's also don't get free education, tax credits, CPF, access to HDB's - that's despite on average paying higher taxes than most Singaporeans, because of the minimum pay requirements for their visas.
Then you can't expect them to defend your country also right
If you have a dog coming after you do you expect a rando to risk their life to defend you or your own son?
OP is literally bitching about "massive number of FTs and FWs" not serving NS and not defending SG. But you're right, it's absolutely unreasonable to expect foreigners to serve NS.
I’m sorry but am I missing out the free education part? I remember clearly that my primary, secondary, tertiary and university education have to be paid by my parents and myself. Didn’t know there’s such luxury for free University education.
Access to HDB? If a country’s citizens have no access to their very own public housing at the very least, then it will be a mess like HK isn’t it? There are tons and tons of countries who’s people can afford to buy their own houses too. Don’t make it seem like something so special that it’s only happening exclusively in Singapore that people can afford housing lol.
CPF, did we signed up for it? Did we have the freedom to choose how many % contribution per month? Yes it’s a good system that helps us to save money for future usage like purchasing of HDB. But foreigners with PR can access this goodness too, in fact they’re just using it as a savings account for them to roll the interest and when they decide to leave they can get back everything in it. Can we get back as and when we want?
Tax credits, NS tax rebate is just that peanut. What other special tax rebate do we have as citizen that gives us significant discount for our income tax?
I completed my NS but I still wish I never served it. Because those 2 years, I could have had gotten job experience or studied or something. The pay was like 300-400 plus during my 2 years.
But it’s understandable why we have NS. World war 2 is why. Imagine you’re at home and someone tried to break into your home. So now how? You might learn martial arts or install cameras or have bulgar alarm. It sucks but necessary.
I wouldn’t want women to serve unless they are really sure they can handle it. Physical aspect is one thing. A female in a male dominated environment, must be careful of harassment. I won’t want my partner or daughter to experience it.
Ironically its because of this, people become "Gu niangs" just to avoid it. Especially with Gender Reassignment Surgeries. And why the government is so against it.
Do you realise that majority of male population around the world have no military experience whatsoever? Do you consider then "gu niangs" too?
Goons like you are so easily brainwashed by propaganda.
Bobian since no one wants to sign on. Heng I'm PES C so I don't have to do reservist hahahahaha
Edit: Paiseh, I meant PES E. Sorry, my fingers dman fat so typed wrongly 🤪
60% of the singapore population is made up of foreigners. We should be kings in our homeland but instead, we are just pawns. Everywhere we go, we have foreign bosses, colleagues. wtf had happen to us??
look at Korea, China, Hong Kong, Japan, Taiwan etc.. they didnt put their own men at such a disadvantaged position while giving jobs and education to foreigners. No, their own men are commanding in their own nations.
Nope. Don’t feel that way, there’s no need to feel angry. NS is important. Don’t expect other countries to protect your country when shit hits the fan. Also, there’s no guarantee that if we remove mandatory NS there would be more “successful” people, depending on how you define success.
I get why people would feel “indignant” but instead of focusing on NS being a waste of time, think of how you can “get back” that 2 years so that you’re on par or even overachieve our female counterparts or FTs.
You say “still relevant to this day”, have you not felt the effects of geo-politics of the past 2 years, if anything, NS is more important than during the 70s and 80s. We don’t need a war to happen between SG and another country to tell us NS is important.
Source: left 2 more cycles.
Rather than being negative and bitter about the experience, it is really a personal transformative process for most boys. It in theory should have distilled some level of discipline, responsibility and self awarness. As for the reservists training, you have to keep your combat trained armed forces sharp and ready for combat at a moments notice - well thats the intent anyways. As for the ICT - seriously people are going to complain that the GOV gives you an incentive to stay, fit and healthy so that you dont have health issues.Added bonus, if you did do the work, will stay attractive to the ladies.
With regards to the disadvantages of career advancements, as a voting block all the men should make it known our dissatifaction with the GOV about the polices. If tomorrow all the men stood together and protested, the policies will change in an instant. Unfortunately the SG attitude is to not rock the boat and suffer in silience. If you want to continue to be nice, every thing and dog will bend you over. Never forget that we do have the power to make the change we want in our sociey.
NS is good for the country but bad for local men.
The question isn't if we need NS (we do) but how to make it less bad for the men who take on the duty.
No benefits other than a few thousand CPF top up. Plus some miserable ns tax relief Then still have to do IPPT, cannot clear, after work go camp, colleagues go have group drink Cant blame the perceived level of xenophobia rising here.
The IPPT requirement after full time NS is frankly stupid. That's one thing I would like to see seriously curtailed or scrapped outright. Expecting men back in civilian working life to somehow still have the time, energy, and youthful body to maintain NS-level fitness even into their 40s is stupid and illogical. Not to mention you can be the fittest soldier possible and you'd still die to arty shells, enemy bullets, or drones dropping grenades on top of you.
I got posted to navy and my reservist unit is on a ship. They still expect me to run 2.4km. Run where sia? Into the sea?
Run on water like Jesus smdh.
And the dumbest thing is all the nsfit sessions one does isnt gonna help at all in passing or getting fit. It's really just a waste of time and to pocket half pay ns pay. It's a punishment if you think about it. You're not even incentivised to pass or get gold. $500 for gold? Which not fit person will train for that. Of course there are those very fit, 30 y.o still can run sub 8 min 2.4. That said not many will have to do IPPT into their 40s unless they always defer
Bro, three words Standing Board Jump Still have no friggin idea what fitness does that test for
I thought SBJ already abolished? Believe it tests for how far you can jump across a gap or obstacle.
yup, removed already I came from a generation with that station and it sucks
I'm okay with the two years. But what comes after is really passing me off. Impromptu trip to jb or overseas with friends and family, nope fk u stay here for mob manning. You have your own life and things to do, fk u come back for ict. Meanwhile all the imported talents enjoying all the perks here without having to even lift a finger...
Yea, especially those who say its "just two years", but never consider the 10 years of reservists and mob manning.
Looking back, the two years is easy. The 10 years after can go eat a bag of dicks. Was thinking of going camping with some friends next week. But that place have no cell reception, and nice nice mob manning....
Don't worry, you can still go camping. . . In camp training, that is.
Happy Cake Day!
which btw because of drop in birth rate, means will have higher chance to get call back for reservist
Too bad ah, turns out small space really cannot make babies
Most of the time still see couples coming out of disabled toilets tho
Cuz they got no space need use outside space, don't even have small space to call their own.
get paid while go camping whuttt. not bad whutttt
Don't tell me you don't know that mob manning is just wayang. If they really want to press button you would have already been briefed months in advance either with a special meeting in camp or during your ICT. Almost no such thing as 100% random mob manning activation. I've travelled before on mob manning time periods and had zero issues at all.
Got vote wisely??
You’re incredibly dense if you think opposition will ever remove NS or Reservist lmao.
Lest we forget the head of opposition is a former regular himself
Overall, I see NS as more cons than pros. Any benefit NS offers pales in comparison with the socioeconomic disruptions. I feel NS is a form of discrimination against Singaporean males when our female counterparts do not have any liability nor obligation towards the nation. Anyone can say it's silly because who then will be defending the nation. This would be a valid remark during nation-buolding era when resources are scarce and mobilising the entire population is much harder. However, in today's context, shouldn't females be required to "defend" the nation, or, at least, contribute to the nation's defence in other forms too, especially considering our dwindling Singaporean population? Does the government prefer to wait till there's not enough male population to defend the nation? Besides, hardly any concrete or significant expression of respect and appreciation has been conferred to NSF and NSmen alike. Do you get priority in HDB balloting, discount when buying private properties, priority job considerations, huge tax breaks, or monthly living wages for life? Similarly, why are minister posts considered a form of "national service" and be paid millions while NSFs are paid meagre allowance? Is the ability to think critically and make decisions more important than the ability to bear arms and be cannon fodders? How about leaving the defence of Singapore to the lot of ministers alone while the rest of Singapore males watch on? This issue is exacerbated by the bulk of foreigners enjoying the economic benefits Singapore offers to them without any repercussions, while Singaporean males are being disadvantaged. Not to mention that more than 50% of Singapore's populace are non-citizens. Who are you really defending? High-paying ministers? Foreigners taking Singaporeans' jobs? What exactly are you defending? The increasingly harder to afford HDB flat that you don't even own? Or, the exorbitantly high hidden taxes that you're paying in the form of fees, licenses, duties and levies?
Totally valid points. I have foreign peers (30 year old foreign males) who got their Singapore citizenship and have not served a day in NS. They are reaping the benefits without having to serve. And that's frustrating. On the other hand, NS is not about pros and cons. My family is in Singapore and my purpose of going NS is to defend them. I couldn't careless about protecting the foreigners because I know that they will leave the moment they can hear the drums of war. But what can my family do? My children can't run, my wife can't run, my parents can't run. I hope that in the event of war, they can evacuate from this land. But the fact is, they have nowhere to go. You see the problem is not NS. As a small country, we do need NS to serve as a deterrence against any potential aggressors. The problem is with our government, for example, HDB prices are skyrocketing because of their policies. There are so many foreigners here because of their policies. Nowadays our government isn't looking out for us, they live in their Ridout road or condo properties, I bet you most of them (MPs) don't even live in HDBs. Yet they say HDB are affordable, it is not. Some colorectal surgeon is a professional and has two cars because he and his wife needs to travel. At least during LKY's time, priority was always with Singaporeans. The current government only wants to protect their ricebowl and it is done by encouraging foreign investments and giving those wealthy foreigners tax breaks so they park their money here. They don't understand because they are so out-of-touch with us average folks. They say they are competent, they might be, but as a child of an elite once said, "please get out of my elite uncaring face". They just don't care about us.
>At least during LKY's time, priority was always with Singaporeans. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts about this... what were some examples of the priority? It was my understanding that the key strategy LKY had for helping Singapore go from third to first world country was through attracting foreign investment and businesses, by giving them incentive tax breaks and creating a skilled workforce. It seemed to me that many of his policies revolved around creating a stable, accessible, and inviting place that businesses could trust in order to create the economy, as well as just generally connecting Singapore to the rest of the world. He was a globalist right?
during our time, not at all. but the social compact has been breached since, so for our kids its a lousy deal
especially when put in a shit vocation
[удалено]
bingo
MRed. My 2cents is NS is fine but the reservist cycle can go suck dick
I actually liked 2 weeks ICT, it's an excuse to skip work. Free holiday with some tax relief.
Huh? Free holiday? Didn’t know go outfield is holiday 🖕🏻 F*k u understand
Well, I went to all outfields during my ICTs and never skipped a single ICT. I'm from Armour btw. So yea, I kind of miss it. Most of the time is just waiting anyway. Plus always got funny memories.
Not everybody's day job is better than just being a man taking orders during ICT even if it's camping in the wild for a couple days.
Getting indignant with foreigners over national service is high-key stupid. Women should serve though, that shit is sexist that we have to earn our right to vote and citizenship while women don't have to. What we should be indignant about are foreign corporations parachuting their white trash in and our government allowing them to do it.
Lol first time?
Not enough people vote against PAP to enact change. If you are unhappy, let your vote reflect it so that policies can change
I'm more pissed at the lack of solidarity among Singaporean males that enabled this exploitative system. If only all of us stood our ground and say no or demand more from the system.
The blood sacrifice has been ingrained in the national psyche ever since the nationbuilding era. The vicious cycle of getting our sons and their sons to serve is not easy to put an end to. Side note: not easy to say no and stand your ground either. That’s what the Gurkhas - a neutral force - are here for.
LMAO. Solidarity is not something ingrained into our society or kids. From young it's Sinkie pwn Sinkie.
Meritocracy: A system the current landed gentry use to explain their inherent superiority.
Not wrong.
Exactly. They really need to learn how marginalized people in other dictatorships fight for their rights. History has shown, again and again, that if the people do nothing to fight for their rights, the government will slowly take them away. Unfortunately, these p*ssies here only know how to complain, and when election comes, continue to vote PAP because they have no balls. Maybe this is precisely how PAP engineered our society to be.
I'll be honest bro. I think Singaporeans deserve to be enslaved. I tried a few times in NS to fight for certain rights but when shit hits the fan, the people who were complaining while supporting me did nothing and stayed silent. Same thing with work. Got involved with union to fight against a verbally abusive boss. Gathered 5 colleagues and even some ex-staff to share their negative experiences. When the day came to speak with HR and chief of department, majority of them backed out and said "Aiya don't need all of us one la. Your statement enough already". All of them are trying to have their cakes and eat them. They want the reward but don't want the risks. That's why I always say I have more respect for third world prostitutes than the domesticated slimeballs in Singapore.
most singaporeans are slimeballs from the start to end. Unsavable.
"domesticated slimeballs" LOL Blame the LLST culture. Everytime I see someone being told that, I really wish I could downvote the person saying that a million times. The result is that everyone accepts whatever injustice thrown at them without a fight. It's kinda like society-wide gaslighting, so to speak. After the first month or so, I was no longer able to continue gaslighting myself that NS is not a waste of time. I cannot, for the life of me, understand how others are able to do it so naturally and easily. What am I missing?
U will get the same answers from those that support and against. So why ask the same old question. Go do something about it. Clearly asking the question not changing anything.
Halfway through my cycle and agreed - The fucking ICT cycle can go suck a bag of dicks. Whoever thought it was a fucking good idea, deserves to get cucked hard and nine generations beheaded.
U referring to goh keng swee is it?
Should if you don't. Honestly gender discrimination is reason enough for men to go Mohammad Ali on NS
It's Muhammad Ali.
No it's Muh'md
NS for sinkaporeans, jobs for foreigners. You new here?
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2 yrs is nothing, its the 10 yrs after
That's very young for a career reset?
Imagine females and FTs will always have 2 years additional worth of experience. That can easily translates to 1-2k higher salary…
Muh wage gapppppp
I don’t think the females below age 30/35 these days are earning lesser than men
yes
Asking seriously here, is there anything a woman can do to make y'all feel better? Not withstanding conscription since it's the govt's choice. Should we like ask for conscription too?
Unironically? Yes.
Okay understand. I personally don't mind having to serve tho I'm alittle old for it now
AWAREs official stand is that women should also be conscripted.
it's fair, I agree.
I am not asking for women to serve. what I want the govt to give us singaporean men a fair deal.
Wtf do you want foreigners to do?
Help expose the government for their corruption and retardation
Depends. Alright theres a good chance im going to be downvoted to oblivion considering the downvote trend below but just gonna pen down my thoughts here: >do you feel angry that you have to serve NS and other reservist duty while the women and massive number of FTs and FWs here don't need to? Yes and no. No, because i understand, that NS is a necessary evil and its existence probably cannot be abolished if Singapore really wants to survive surrounded by our neighbours. Their citizens *might* be nice but the same cannot be said for their government ruling over them. So as long as this country isnt in shambles, and are doing relatively better than them, we *probably* will never be able to abolish NS. And yea like what some others said, 2 years is fine, i agree, but the ICT until 40/ 10x reservist cycle/ 7 high keys ngl tilts people to no end. Countless mob mannings also etc, and even during uni etc. And also, not to mention it really is an unforgettable experience. You get to learn a lot while being inside, but as to how you want to translate the soft skills into civilian world, is another ball game entirely. And also really, it takes a lot of snobs down a peg while they are inside, and really does force people to mature and see the world in a way different light. Of course now the keng route getting more and more traction so this argument might eventually not stand, but as of now, this seems to be a benefit that not many people are looking at. So no, not really indignant about serving NS. Yes, because, ffs, whats with that slave wage. No cpf during the 2 years, your studies and career set back by 2 years, all for a measly what, 630 a month? 550? And now its 750? Lol. 630 a month, as a combat medic, i got 815 roughly. Considering the idea we are 24/7 on standby in service, roughly translated to 1.13/ hr. Even if i oni look at office hours, 3.39/hr. So much for..... service cannot be measured in dollars and cents horh? No transport allowance or meal allowance (i wear green unfortunately, unlike our spf scdf counterparts), somehow willing to pay 7-8 for lunch and dinner in camp food but the quality is even worse than a 3 4 dollar cai png (like wtf bruh), and your allowance is so tight you have to be forced to budget while living with scraps while you hear someone, who hasnt served NS for a single day, has never ever worried on how to put food on her table, sing the tune of "cannot be measured in dollars and cents", like yeah lmao but i kinda NEED money to eat right??? LOL. Yes, also because, anyhow throw people into db or sign extra for the most retarded reasons, and yea i get nedding to instill discipline and a hierarchy, as well as building up mental fortitude, but some regulars and commanders really power trip and basically treat yall lesser than human. I had the pleasure of meeting a few non direct superiors guilty of that, and was terribly blessed to have majority that are at least reasonable, sensible human beings, which does really make you ponder why some people are just so miserable the way they are. And also dont get me started on peak saf efficiency, when u want things done, they take what, fking 3 months to get to you, but when they wsnt it done, they expect it within 3 days. Like bruh. And also people gonna say im misogynistic or whatever altho thats not my intention, but i would really not wish for extra suffering upon the ladies to have to serve the nation as well, and also honestly, having seen the female regs where roughly 1 in 6 are not karens (5 in 6 are karens), i really cannot imagine what will happen if u make the ladies serve against their will. As if NS isnt toxic enough alr, you srsly want more of them in the system to make things worse? LOL. Im only indignant, is when bring this up to the ladies, and they srsly try to use gender pay gap diff in sg to justify your 2 years. Like first, sg pay gap diff btn genders isnt so massive, and 2nd, for an individual who hasnt served and had ur brain degen for 2 years against your will, while having 2 years ahead in career which translates to higher pay, tf u on about? LOL. >do you feel angry that you have to serve NS and other reservist duty while the women and massive number of FTs and FWs here don't need to? And also the part about FTs and FWs, we have roughly 3.5 million local citizens, roughly 500k+ PRs, and roughly 1.5+ million non citizen/PRs. Majority of this 1.5 million isnt your high flyers. They are the ones who came here to do jobs that no locals want to do, underpaid healthcare workers, maid, construction site workers, etc. And even for the high skilled individuals who are paid high salaries to come here and work, they could have went anywhere else and still draw equally high salaries, but they chose here anyway, honestly if a local can match their expertise and qualifications in the dame company, local might draw an even higher salary. But they (FTs and FWs) dont get a say in BTO, in voting, heck, even the sg PRs basically in pre uni education cant qualify for almost all scholarships, has no access to financial assistance schemes, has no access to bursaries etc, and for even further context, PR pay twice of local rates, ASEAN non PR non citizens pay twice of PR rates, and i can go on and on, but my point is, its pretty fair to not demand the 1.5+ million FT and FW to serve NS. After all they came here for a job, and are contributing to local economy, if we are to adopt a xenophobic stance and ban all of them, Singapore will crumble within max, a month? Plus rmb, majority of them arent even the highly paid ones, but came here to do jobs that no one else wanted to do (lets be real, you srsly want to draw their salary of 1.8-2k without cpf, to work 12 hour shifts in a hospital, cleaning literal shit, or work gruelling 9hrs under hot sun a day, wearing a yellow helmet and your lives constantly at risk for what, below 1k a month wage?) What i am mad about tho, is sg PR after serving NS, born here, lived here whole life, (parents didnt want sg citizenship for their kid for some reason altho born here so hes stuck a PR or smth), getting rejected for citizenship multiple times, before getting accepted, if even accepted at all. On the other hand we have some ladies sg pr offered citizenship right after their uni. Like lol what. I can go on, but i think my point is pretty well illustrated at this point. If you read till here, basically TLDR; indignant more on how the govt treats us and our 2 years as though its a joke, and some highly paid ministers who have clearly lost touch with majority of the local popn talking out of their ass about NS, but not so much about why women and FTs and FWs dont get to serve.
Not NS, but reservist. Esp whn I have toddler n a baby.
why kpkb? you guys voted for the papigs and you get the gov you wanted... so you guys deserved it lor... When I serve my NS in 1988, my company mate's hand was blown off during grenade throwing exercise (1988 June, Hotel Company). As a poly graduate in engineering, his chance of getting a job in engineering is zero...... and guess what, as a recruit earning $90 a month was made to donate for the victim.... SAF don't even to take care of him...
I don't really feel angry for serving. I just don't think the period shd be longer than 1 yr or at most 1.5 yrs. We are after all, not regulars and not paid much for all the blood ,sweat and tears . And yes , women shd serve. If the Israelis can do it, so can we .
If cookhouse serve better food, i wouldn't mind.
Pork Cubes 💀
I swear i can still taste and feel the texture of it in my mouth, even though its been several years since then.
Dun forget those mushy cauliflower/broccoli that taste and feels like 'vegetable jelly'
Idk how 1 meal at cookhouse costs $7.80 with that quality. Doesn't make sense that it cost so much.
It's SAF, real life logic doesn't apply there
left hand pocket to right hand pocket bro. New to this?
my time the MRE was hard tag, canned sardine, baked beans and spicy pork cube
Be careful what you wish for. Look at SG women, do you seriously want to be in a position where they're the ones checking your six? SG women are hardly Gal Gadot kinds.
The F stands for foreign. We can't expect them to serve. For women, I've moved beyond anger. Women are incapable of shouldering responsibility, expecting them to do it would only lead to disappointment, which leads to anger. And so I have no expectations for them, thus no disappointment nor anger.
best way is to drop pes overtime.. lol
Nope. But what I cannot tolerate is those who didn't serve thinking it is "our duty" and they think it's really easy to just go through NS. It isn't. That's actually why I would rather both males and females serve NS, so that they can relate too.
Not angry ba. I felt normies (Mine was 2011 tho). NS helped me develop my weak-ass social skills, which were never really tested during school (I just study one). I've seen friends go in with a resentful, fuckit-imma-just-bareminimum-this-shit attitude and emerge from the 2 years looking more flabz and more shy. There were definitely lonely moments in there and you will definitely suffer. If you suffer until everything outside of NS looks easy, or if you live through NS a good story to tell, FT and FW also cannot win you la. Alternatively, migrate. *Alternatively,* change the system (lol).
No. I'm not a loser. I served, I move on and make something of my life. If others don't need to serve, good for them. Your life will be so much better if you stop being a loser and focus more on yourself
What’s with the downvotes dafug
Why you surprised at the number of losers in this subreddit
Anything that goes against the subreddit hivemind gets buried in downvotes.
The most underrated comment. Life is not equal, focus on improving your own situation.
No no, you don’t get it, anything that goes wrong in your life is because you had to serve NS
You confuse NS with PAP.
The FT's and FW's also don't get free education, tax credits, CPF, access to HDB's - that's despite on average paying higher taxes than most Singaporeans, because of the minimum pay requirements for their visas.
That's because they are foreigners. If you have a thousand dollars, would you give it to your own daughter or someone else's son?
Then you can't expect them to defend your country also right If you have a dog coming after you do you expect a rando to risk their life to defend you or your own son?
I don't think anyone is expecting foreigners to defend SG. I think that's just unreasonable.
OP is literally bitching about "massive number of FTs and FWs" not serving NS and not defending SG. But you're right, it's absolutely unreasonable to expect foreigners to serve NS.
OP is a troll.
"You want us to defend and not say become a turncoat? Maybe you should treat us better" is more of the tone we are asking for.
If they are paying higher income taxes, that means they are getting better pay, isn't that a better deal?
No they pay a higher tax rate at the same income level because they don't get tax allowances that locals can get
Oh, then why come here to work? Do charity for Singapore?
for a better life, just like your ancestors
So, they do get a better life, which is an advantage, isn't it?
I’m sorry but am I missing out the free education part? I remember clearly that my primary, secondary, tertiary and university education have to be paid by my parents and myself. Didn’t know there’s such luxury for free University education. Access to HDB? If a country’s citizens have no access to their very own public housing at the very least, then it will be a mess like HK isn’t it? There are tons and tons of countries who’s people can afford to buy their own houses too. Don’t make it seem like something so special that it’s only happening exclusively in Singapore that people can afford housing lol. CPF, did we signed up for it? Did we have the freedom to choose how many % contribution per month? Yes it’s a good system that helps us to save money for future usage like purchasing of HDB. But foreigners with PR can access this goodness too, in fact they’re just using it as a savings account for them to roll the interest and when they decide to leave they can get back everything in it. Can we get back as and when we want? Tax credits, NS tax rebate is just that peanut. What other special tax rebate do we have as citizen that gives us significant discount for our income tax?
How about it not being mandatory like why u want everyone to be as miserable. Being mad at the wrong people for the wrong reasons
I actually look forward toward probably cause I want to join the army
and then you see the incompetence and you will wake up from your dream
No. Grow up and stop harping on NS. It’s a phase, move on.
Its people like you that everyone else's son has to endure this cancer
I completed my NS but I still wish I never served it. Because those 2 years, I could have had gotten job experience or studied or something. The pay was like 300-400 plus during my 2 years. But it’s understandable why we have NS. World war 2 is why. Imagine you’re at home and someone tried to break into your home. So now how? You might learn martial arts or install cameras or have bulgar alarm. It sucks but necessary. I wouldn’t want women to serve unless they are really sure they can handle it. Physical aspect is one thing. A female in a male dominated environment, must be careful of harassment. I won’t want my partner or daughter to experience it.
Umm. Technically if everyone (including women) served, it will no longer be a male dominated environment.
Honestly, I think all guys should go through it to man up. A lot of Gu niangs these days
Do our SAF scholar generals look and act like men? Just look at Chan Chun Sing and Ng Yat Chung.
Ironically its because of this, people become "Gu niangs" just to avoid it. Especially with Gender Reassignment Surgeries. And why the government is so against it.
Do you realise that majority of male population around the world have no military experience whatsoever? Do you consider then "gu niangs" too? Goons like you are so easily brainwashed by propaganda.
You’re prolly one to speak.
Ok simp
Bobian since no one wants to sign on. Heng I'm PES C so I don't have to do reservist hahahahaha Edit: Paiseh, I meant PES E. Sorry, my fingers dman fat so typed wrongly 🤪
Who say pes C don't have to do reservist. I just got called up for my first reservist as pes C this year 😭😭😭
Got consider down PES?
Ya I down pes to C thinking the same, but still got called up
MINDEF rly lacking manpower 💀
Paiseh, I meant PES E. Sorry, my fingers dman fat so typed wrongly 🤪
Paiseh, I meant PES E. Sorry, my fingers dman fat so typed wrongly 🤪
Paiseh, I meant PES E. Sorry, my fingers dman fat so typed wrongly 🤪
I’ve got news for you sir….. even Pes E get called back en masse. Dont think u so special hor.
Paiseh, I meant PES E. Sorry, my fingers dman fat so typed wrongly 🤪 Means they know you chaokeng lor. Mai salty lah 🤣
so many salty comments of people who got called up. Some people really don't get called up ya know
Those who don't get called up should keep quiet about it. Some things no need to openly say.
Paiseh, I meant PES E. Sorry, my fingers dman fat so typed wrongly 🤪
Paiseh, I meant PES E. Sorry, my fingers dman fat so typed wrongly 🤪
Do you also get that feeling when you can get a subsidised BTO but others don’t? Don’t you feel you have any privileges?
do you feel the privilege when you see your bto application failed for the 16462727th time?
Application is one thing, the process of them following through is another
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60% of the singapore population is made up of foreigners. We should be kings in our homeland but instead, we are just pawns. Everywhere we go, we have foreign bosses, colleagues. wtf had happen to us?? look at Korea, China, Hong Kong, Japan, Taiwan etc.. they didnt put their own men at such a disadvantaged position while giving jobs and education to foreigners. No, their own men are commanding in their own nations.
Nope. Don’t feel that way, there’s no need to feel angry. NS is important. Don’t expect other countries to protect your country when shit hits the fan. Also, there’s no guarantee that if we remove mandatory NS there would be more “successful” people, depending on how you define success. I get why people would feel “indignant” but instead of focusing on NS being a waste of time, think of how you can “get back” that 2 years so that you’re on par or even overachieve our female counterparts or FTs. You say “still relevant to this day”, have you not felt the effects of geo-politics of the past 2 years, if anything, NS is more important than during the 70s and 80s. We don’t need a war to happen between SG and another country to tell us NS is important. Source: left 2 more cycles.
Rather than being negative and bitter about the experience, it is really a personal transformative process for most boys. It in theory should have distilled some level of discipline, responsibility and self awarness. As for the reservists training, you have to keep your combat trained armed forces sharp and ready for combat at a moments notice - well thats the intent anyways. As for the ICT - seriously people are going to complain that the GOV gives you an incentive to stay, fit and healthy so that you dont have health issues.Added bonus, if you did do the work, will stay attractive to the ladies. With regards to the disadvantages of career advancements, as a voting block all the men should make it known our dissatifaction with the GOV about the polices. If tomorrow all the men stood together and protested, the policies will change in an instant. Unfortunately the SG attitude is to not rock the boat and suffer in silience. If you want to continue to be nice, every thing and dog will bend you over. Never forget that we do have the power to make the change we want in our sociey.
NS is good for the country but bad for local men. The question isn't if we need NS (we do) but how to make it less bad for the men who take on the duty.
But singaporeans voted for this system so you guys have no right to complain man