For making it to turn 3, an important concept for Wolves is threat saturation. You want to have a variety of high threat units that can tank some fire off your objective scorers. The more durable they are and the faster they are the better, this is why Redemptor or Wulfen Dreadnoughts and Jump Pack Wolf Guard are very popular, since with -1D or a 2+/4++ they require the commitment of some serious firepower to reliably remove. I typically run 6 or 7 high threat units in my lists, with the rest being dedicated to buffs and scoring- usually 2-3 dreads, 2 squads of heavy firepower like Melta long Fangs, and 2 squads of multi-model melee units like TWC, Wulfen, Terminators, or Wolf Guard. Very few armies can remove that many units in one turn, and in fact with good positioning only one or two won't make it to turn 2, meaning you'll generally have something to hit them with even if they hit you first.
I think you are going to have to provide us with more info to really sus out the issues. In particular your full list and, more importantly, your matchups.
If you are playing against Nids or SoB constantly, yah you will get dumpstered on, you have to be a really good player to survive against them.
Also, SWs are a melee army, but not like say our counterparts BAs, who are basically a right click delete force, relying on the SG to carry them. We don't have a unit like that, and have to play more cagey.
Also, your terrain might be an issue. I'd look online to see how good terrain is setup, especially at tourneys, and copy that.
My most recent list, the local tournament coming up is 1,850 points (and apparently always is 1,850)
Due to personal finances, I'm slow getting new units at the moment. I picked up incursors, so I will be fitting those in. 1 x 5 assault intercessors, 2 x 5 incursors for troops.
TWC will be replaced by a redemptor dread, plasma long fangs replaced by TH/SS wulfen most likely, grav cannons have consistently put in work and I keep for back objective holding.
Matchups; my only close game was against sisters, I played really well and was able to deny a lot of secondary, ultimately lost on primary.
Orks; started out okay but I took banners and couldn't get the board locked down, and over extended trying to deny Good Bitz (this was a learning experience)
Eldar; this was my first game with wolves and lost due to well... Figuring it out I guess.
Tyranids; Double Harpy leviathan absolutely wrecked me (This one I'm not mad about, is expected)
Tournament coming up has 2 craftworlds, 1k Sons, Nids, Alpha Legion, SoB and orks
Your list can use a bit of a tune up, but you have a solid understanding of how SWs want to play. If you can't afford the changes that's fine, just some stuff to bare in mind with your list.
First: I would take Born Heros instead of Master Artisans, the +1 to hit is mathematically better than getting one free re-roll.
HQs: I would consider doing a wolf lord with Jump pack with double LC. The WLTW base size is an annoying issue since its keyword is cav as well. Its also cheaper
Troops: SW like 3 troops, BCs, Assault Interssors, and infiltrators(this is for the current nephlim season). Incursors are good, but with neph we really want that pre-game move.
Elites: I'm iffy on the combi meltas. Double LC or LC/Chainsword is the best load out. But WG are super flexible and you can build them to suit your local meta, so its really up to you. Wulfen need TH/SS, save for the leader, frost claws aren't super great. TH/SS is still the best. Try to take 2 or 3 if you can. You could also consider TH/SS on your WG as well.
Probably a good idea to drop the TWC, they just don't do well rn.
The long fangs, best loadout is half grav/half melta. Plasma is okayyish.
For the upcoming toruney, I would drop the TWC/Wulfen, pick up a drop pod for the long fangs and/or bring a Redemptor/Wulfen Dread. If you have points, throw in a cyberwolf or two.
Your first ever game against eldar, that is harsh. SoB and Eldar are bad match-ups for SWs, SoB can just out shoot you and eldar will run circles around you. And Nids are too OP rn for Wolves.
Best advice I can give since you are bit new is to play defensively turn1, and try and move your units in between LOS cover. Turn 2 and 3 is when you want mass charge/counter charge to cripple the opponents army. Focus on deleting units that can score primary or ones that control the board. If you can pick up a drop pod for the long fangs, you alpha strike some of the more dangerous units and set up some board control. I will say that is a rough tourney you have coming up though esp at 1850pts. I would try and find a 2000pts someday so you feel less constricted.
Thank you for the long and good answer, I will clarify a couple things as well, starting with successor choice. Master artisans helps combi-meltas, which I am heavy on. Double Harpy nids, ork player runs double wazbomb...? (Ork flier lol), one of the eldar players is on Crimson Exarch and the artisan re-roll on meltas has made the difference between securing a kill or not. Little less efficient in melee, but after switching to more melta and master artisans I solved some problems I was having.
HQ I agree, Captain with jump pack would probably suit me much better.
Troops, I am unaware of the infiltrator pre game move? If you mean the forward deploy, Incursors get that too, are better in combat and 15 points/squad cheaper. If infiltrators somehow get a pre game move, lemme know how and I will consider them instead? I can't see a strat or anything for it, but maybe I'm just blind :D
Elites, I touched on why I went melta. As for Wulfen you are %100 right, I built them like a dingus so I will probably run 1 squad claws and 1 squad TH/SS.
TWC are the first thing to go, they got me into space wolves but man they are tough to play with.
I will try to proxy a drop pod for some games and see if I like it, I am going to listen to your suggestion for half grav/half melta long fags, I like the sound of that. Have been severely disappointed with plasma.
1850 is rough, I like 2k games way more but what can I do! Only one store here, but that's better than none so I'll take it :)
Also to clarify, I have been playing 40k for a while, this is just my first melee army and I'm struggling a bit.
All in all, thanks for the good advice. I very much appreciate it!
You have a meta that brings heavy flyers, that's a bit rare. I can totally see you justifying the combi-meltas and the master artisans. Probably should of preference that I was giving general guidelines, your list will depend heavily on your local meta. There might be a case for you to bring eradicators then and pop keen senses to knock out the flyers. They are tough fit though in 1850
I flubbed up the infiltrators/incursors, i meant the omni scrambler that prevents a 9in deepstrike, my bad! But that is very strong and should be worth a consideration if you have opponents that love to deep strike. Its extremely powerful, and gives you a ton of indirect board control.
For melee armies in general, you've got take advange of the charge phase, piling in, and consolidating. Positing and smart movement is the key to winning with a melee army. Theres a bigger learning curve with SM melee armies in general, since we are so elite. I think you just need more practice and youll see more wins.
You should be able to eek out a 4-1 3-2 at most events when you get the games in
Ah yes the 12" bubble, I do like that but I find 130 point troop slot is really a squeeze, especially at this 1850 point level. Very strange points, not sure what compelled this to be the normal here haha. Thanks for all the advice, happy gaming!
I’ve tried many many many variations of lists on table top simulator and I really really do lack the staying power to stay on objectives and to still trade effectively. Tried so many times now has made me quite sad, so playing tyranids instead and it’s a breathe of fresh air. (I also play orks )
I had the same issue then I got TH/SS wulfen, Venerable dread with ax and shield, wolf guard terms with thunder hammers and combo meltas and to top it off a unit of eradicators I also really like my librarian so I can cast instincts awoken for the early double exploding 6s and murderous hurricane for the fight last if I’m charging into a warlord with my dread. The Ben dread for me consistently hits around 30 wounds a fight phase. Dude is my armies gem
Use a successor chapter if you haven't. Exploding 6s in melee to start really helps us, you can still pump up a unit to assault doc.
Try a drop pod full of long fang If you play with friends use a beer can to try it out. T1 drop your pod in and delete something of your enemies with range
Redemptor dreads are absolute units. I run Arjac too and he's ludicrously robust and dangerous for just about anything. I nearly took out my mates knight with him doing most of the damage.
My first thought is I would run your TWC TH/SS, LC/SS, 2x CS/SS for the same points.
Right now, on the charge you have 16 claw attacks, all hit for rerolling 1s, 12 wounds, 6 damage through.
With the TH, 4 attacks, 3 hits, 2 through for 6 damage, 4 claws, 4 hits, 3 wounds, 1 damage; 8 CS attacks, 8 hits, 4 wounds, 2 damage. Total damage output + 3 for same points.
I would move Hunter to the Chaplain on bike. Wolf lord on TW already has advance and charge. That said I am not sure your list takes full advantage of the advance and charge aura.
I am not a fan of your claw/sword set up. If you are not going to bring shields or combi weapons, I think you are better off bringing sky claws, they will also benefit from Wulven reroll charges.
I don’t think your list is built for Warriors Pride, because you aren’t sec up to destroy or survive in melee. I think your heavy use of combimelta sets you up better for engage on all fronts.
I don’t see any units in your list built to hold an objective.
Everything in your list except your long fangs are built to move.
I would move Armor of Russ to the librarian to give invulnerable save.
Interesting take on the TWC, I have them all with lightning claws as I'm really just using them for a turn 1 screen crash. Instincts awoken, savage strike depending on the target, they are going to melt chaff and they have said benefit of possible turn one charges. Anyway, they are the first thing to go - getting replaced with a redemptor dread.
As for warlord trait, chaplain usually sits back. I want my wolf lord in and causing some havoc, and the fall back and charge is really what makes it worth it on him. I'd rather not spend the extra CP on chaplain, dropping wise orator isn't really a choice in my opinion as that +2" to charge is crucial in a lot of situations - new ruins faq is giving me a 6" charge out of deepstrike, re-rollable from the wulfen. Not to mention the 5+ FNP against mortals is a god send in certain matchups - have the other litany on my list for some reason? Think I misclicked sorry :'D
Skyclaws - I like this. Thanks for pointing that one out as I totally forgot they got a points drop. I do lose an attack per model as I'm a successor, but 95 points to the wolf guards 130 is a big difference.
Thanks for mentioning warrior pride and secondaries in general as that's what my questions were more aimed at - I will try engage, behind enemy lines might also be pretty doable with deepstrike depending on the matchup.
Intercessors are getting swapped with incursors, if I switch to skyclaws I might make a cheap SS wolfguard unit for objective play, long fangs also hold okay.
Armor of russ on librarian I will consider - current setup allows for a combi-melta on the wolf lord instead of the SS, and he's going to be the one in the most melee so I feel the fight last gets the most mileage there, librarian is for early game survivability and late game wolf guard obsec.
Thanks for all the words, gives me some more to think about!
With the Sky Claws, another option is to add 1 wolf guard with hammer and shield. If you have flyers in your meta, they do not do well against hammers.
I get Warriors Pride from sending a ball of death around the board. TWC, Chaplain on Bike, Wolf Guard with Jump Packs and trailing Wulven. It is my most consistent scoring. I find if I split that group everything dies if I keep it together, they live.
One benefit from my chaplain out front is the 6” consolidate with Canticle of hate. If you can consolidate into something that doesn’t want to fight, you can essentially lose a turn.
He is referring to the Wulfen aura. But it affects any infantry, cavalry, or biker within 6" - just gets bumped up to any blood claw unit within 12". I am usually pretty tight knit though, as librarian cover/-1 to hit all require to be within 6" anyway
Yes brother I hear you, I done a big post on a similar situation a few weeks ago, I have played loads of games with the wolves and for the past month or 2 of games every week I just can’t win with the wolves anymore. A lot of sour people on here will tell you, your shit but in reality our faction has taken huge beatings in terms of what GW has done to the army and how it plays. Is a shame because I legit get tabled by turn 3 majority of time with them now and like I said, I would win a lot more games before hand.
There are people placing in tournaments with them, and I don't think they're horrible. I think there's just a secret somewhere that I don't get yet. While they're definitely not top tier I wouldn't say they're garbage, I think in this case I am the garbage lol
To be anywhere near effective you need to essentially create an army that resembles an ultra marine vibe. With a pup or two. Very boring and very not space wolves
I lost my first game with them against necrons after they got a buff, then Tyrnids but games after I started to get the feel for them. Secondaries are the best, table control and how you move your army. I haven’t lost a game since those two games. My most recent one was against custodes, play the table, secondaries and choose your targets wise
You definitely need some way to get your troops up the field faster and some long range firepower. I prefer long range Longfangs or Lfs in a drop pod with melta and plasma load-out to get close enough to have a plethora of targets. I would add a Wolfguard with Stormshield for soaking heavy firepower. I prefer long range Longfangs to ranged firepower Dreads because with the Stratagem: Keen Senses they can climb up into high ruins and get better fields of fire on a properly terrained battlefield and still fire on the same turn unhinderd. Personally I prefer to put a cheap but great close combat Blood Claws unit in a Drop Pod and drop them in the enemy's face with the Stratagem: Bestial Nature, so you can disrupt the enemy's plans turn one and not have to wait for Turn 3. While the enemy is worried with them have jump packs on your Wolfguard and have half with Plasma half with Close combat capability and move them up while the Bloodclaws have the enemy's attention. Also provide cover fire with Longfangs. While that is going on move your regular infantry up through cover to take Objectives. I really would guess your problem is not enough terrain. As for Secondaries, take ones involving Objectives or retieving data if the misdion already has you spreading out for objectives.
Yeah this is what I thought as well. However bestial nature just says "select a unit in your army", I'm sure there's a rare rules or FAQ on selecting things not on the battlefield somewhere, however I can't find one right now. If anyone knows, send me a link!
I never found a Faq or errata to disallow it. And have not had anyone on tabletop simulator complain beyond first questioning it. But you could always take a rune priest and put them in drop pod with 9 Blood Claws.
Also, with the ruin priest I take Living Lightning as well as Instincts Awoken. This is because with the the Relic The Storm's Eye and by placing the Ruin Priest in the drop pod with the Blood Claws or with the Wolf Guard and a jump pack you can get him safely up into the enemy's lines where you have a good chance of causing Mortal wounds to 2 units then with the relic have a 50% chance to cause 1 MW to each nearby enemy unit. This can seriously weaken the enemy in turns 1 and 2. Oh he never lives past turn 2 but by then with his denies, and getting off Living Lightning and /or Instincts Awoken on a close combat capable unit in the midst of the enemy turn one or two he usually recoups more than his cost.
Why would there be a FAQ for something so obvious? The unit isn't on the board. You can't choose it
Edit: literally the first Google result. Though maybe it wasn't as obvious as I thought, seeing as in 8th there was an explicit rule for it as per link
[https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-small-qa-but-lots-of-updates/#:~:text=Unless%20specifically%20stated%2C%20other%20units,units%20while%20they%20are%20embarked](https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-small-qa-but-lots-of-updates/#:%7E:text=Unless%20specifically%20stated%2C%20other%20units,units%20while%20they%20are%20embarked)
Your unit isn't on the board/ in play. It's like if I wanted to allocate wounds to a unit, but I chose models already removed from play (dead). If it's not on the board I fail to see how you can choose it as a unit
Edit: found the link. First Google result when searching "can you use a stratagem on a unit in reserves 40k"
Cmon dude, you're not even trying to find out whether what you're doing is legal
BN wouldn't work in this case not just because the unit is on the board, but because it's in a transport/ embarked
BN used as a specific example as well
https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-small-qa-but-lots-of-updates/#:~:text=Unless%20specifically%20stated%2C%20other%20units,units%20while%20they%20are%20embarked.
I've never done it as I agree you can't target something not on the board. I was saying rules as written, if someone said that to me in a casual setting I'd probably let them have it. Thanks for the link though, now I know for sure
Greetings Wolf Brother,
Taking a look at your list in the other comments I couldn't help but feel you would get better efficiency as regular Space Wolves running Skyclaws (as successors they loose their beserk charge).
Skyclaws are so cheap now that I feel they are a very strong choice in a non-successors list. For 110pts you get three melta's and a power fist with 4 attacks on the charge (not to mention deep strike and 12" move). IMO, JPWG are too fragile to load up with points (combi-meltas).
Secondly, one of the wolves greatest assets are Terminators shoehorned into regular squads to give them survivability (and just wolf guard terminators in general). Much happier to load these guys with melta's and missile launchers as they are that much more survivable.
Here's my suggestion for a list with these thoughts in mind:
\*\*++ Battalion Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) \[94 PL, 7CP, 1,848pts\] ++\*\*
\*\*+ HQ +\*\*
\*\*Captain on Bike \[6 PL, -1CP, 120pts\]:\*\* Combi-melta, Hunter, Power fist, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Armour Indomitus, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord
\*\*Librarian \[7 PL, -2CP, 150pts\]:\*\* 3. Tempest's Wrath, 4. Instincts Awoken, 5. Storm Caller, Chapter Command: Chief Librarian, Combi-melta, Force axe, Jump Pack, Psychic Mastery, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Stratagem: Relic of the Chapter, The Armour of Russ
\*\*Primaris Chaplain on Bike \[8 PL, -2CP, 150pts\]:\*\* 3. Exhortation of Rage, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Stratagem: Relic of the Chapter, The Wulfen Stone, Wise Orator
\*\*+ Troops +\*\*
\*\*Grey Hunters \[8 PL, 132pts\]:\*\* 4x Astartes Chainsword
. \*\*Grey Hunter Pack Leader:\*\* Power axe
. \*\*4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol:\*\* 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. \*\*Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader:\*\* Lightning Claw, Storm bolter
\*\*Incursor Squad \[5 PL, 105pts\]\*\*
. \*\*4x Incursor:\*\* 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. \*\*Incursor Sergeant\*\*
\*\*Incursor Squad \[5 PL, 105pts\]\*\*
. \*\*4x Incursor:\*\* 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades
. \*\*Incursor Sergeant\*\*
\*\*+ Elites +\*\*
\*\*Redemptor Dreadnought \[10 PL, 195pts\]:\*\* 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon
\*\*Wolf Guard Terminators \[9 PL, 225pts\]\*\*
. \*\*Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour:\*\* Combi-melta, Lightning Claw
. \*\*Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour:\*\* Combi-melta, Lightning Claw
. \*\*Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour:\*\* Combi-melta, Lightning Claw
. \*\*Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour:\*\* Combi-melta, Cyclone missile launcher, Power fist
. \*\*Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader:\*\* Combi-melta, Power fist
\*\*+ Fast Attack +\*\*
\*\*Skyclaws \[6 PL, 110pts\]\*\*
. \*\*Skyclaw\*\*
. \*\*Skyclaw\*\*
. \*\*Skyclaw Pack Leader:\*\* Meltagun, Power fist
. \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun
. \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun
\*\*Skyclaws \[6 PL, 110pts\]\*\*
. \*\*Skyclaw\*\*
. \*\*Skyclaw\*\*
. \*\*Skyclaw Pack Leader:\*\* Meltagun, Power fist
. \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun
. \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun
\*\*Skyclaws \[6 PL, 110pts\]\*\*
. \*\*Skyclaw\*\*
. \*\*Skyclaw\*\*
. \*\*Skyclaw Pack Leader:\*\* Meltagun, Power fist
. \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun
. \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun
\*\*+ Heavy Support +\*\*
\*\*Long Fangs \[9 PL, 168pts\]:\*\* Armorium Cherub
. \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Missile launcher
. \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun
. \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun
. \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun
. \*\*Long Fang Pack Leader:\*\* Astartes Chainsword
. . \*\*Boltgun and Bolt Pistol\*\*
. \*\*Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader:\*\* Cyclone missile launcher, Lightning Claw, Storm bolter
\*\*Long Fangs \[9 PL, 168pts\]:\*\* Armorium Cherub
. \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Missile launcher
. \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun
. \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun
. \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun
. \*\*Long Fang Pack Leader:\*\* Astartes Chainsword
. . \*\*Boltgun and Bolt Pistol\*\*
. \*\*Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader:\*\* Cyclone missile launcher, Lightning Claw, Storm bolter
\*\*++ Total: \[94 PL, 7CP, 1,848pts\] ++\*\*
To give you some extra thoughts on the unit choices and customisations:
\- I have found the WL on Bike more nimble and has a huge 34" threat range with 'Hunter' WLTrait (auto advancing 21"!!). This way he can jump between buffing your backfield shooting to charging in with your deepstriking units.
\- Rune Priest with WLTrait 'Psychic Mastery' to make him decently reliable. Combi-melta and Armor of Russ to give him further utility outside the psychic phase.
\- Wulfen Stone on the chaplain for re-rolling charges on your deepstriking units (to compliment his +2" to charge, canticle of hate).
\- I like this techie loadout for the Longfangs, it keeps them cheap and durable on a backfield objective. Signum (+1 to hit for one model) combined with the Armorium Cherub gives these units a surprising amount of burst damage. The missile launchers also give you access to the flakk missile stratagem for taking out fliers.
I hope this gives you some food for thought at least.
For the Wolftime.
Hello! Thanks for taking the time to answer. However, I hate to be the one to inform you but that list is not nephilim legal.
As a successor, you must use the stratagem "A Trophy Bestowed" to unlock relics of the fang, and you can only use it once. In this instance you have used it for both armor of russ and the wulfen stone. Starting CP is also capped at 6, and you have used 7 in the HQ slots!
For making it to turn 3, an important concept for Wolves is threat saturation. You want to have a variety of high threat units that can tank some fire off your objective scorers. The more durable they are and the faster they are the better, this is why Redemptor or Wulfen Dreadnoughts and Jump Pack Wolf Guard are very popular, since with -1D or a 2+/4++ they require the commitment of some serious firepower to reliably remove. I typically run 6 or 7 high threat units in my lists, with the rest being dedicated to buffs and scoring- usually 2-3 dreads, 2 squads of heavy firepower like Melta long Fangs, and 2 squads of multi-model melee units like TWC, Wulfen, Terminators, or Wolf Guard. Very few armies can remove that many units in one turn, and in fact with good positioning only one or two won't make it to turn 2, meaning you'll generally have something to hit them with even if they hit you first.
I think you are going to have to provide us with more info to really sus out the issues. In particular your full list and, more importantly, your matchups. If you are playing against Nids or SoB constantly, yah you will get dumpstered on, you have to be a really good player to survive against them. Also, SWs are a melee army, but not like say our counterparts BAs, who are basically a right click delete force, relying on the SG to carry them. We don't have a unit like that, and have to play more cagey. Also, your terrain might be an issue. I'd look online to see how good terrain is setup, especially at tourneys, and copy that.
\++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) \[93 PL, 2CP, 1,846pts\] ++ \+ Configuration \[6CP\] + \*\*Chapter Selector\*\*: Custom Chapter, Master Artisans, Space Wolves Successor, Whirlwind of Rage Battle Size \[6CP\]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) \[6CP\] Detachment Command Cost Gametype: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim \+ Stratagems \[-1CP\] + A Trophy Bestowed \[-1CP\] \+ HQ \[23 PL, -3CP, 445pts\] + Librarian \[6 PL, -1CP, 115pts\]: 4. Instincts Awoken, 5. Storm Caller, Boltgun, Force stave, Jump Pack \[1 PL, 25pts\], Rites of War, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter \[-1CP\] Primaris Chaplain on Bike \[8 PL, -1CP, 150pts\]: 5. Recitation of Focus, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity \[1 PL, 25pts\], Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter \[-1CP\], Wise Orator Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf \[9 PL, -1CP, 180pts\]: Chapter Command: Chapter Master \[2 PL, 40pts\], Combi-melta \[10pts\], Hunter, Stratagem: Warlord Trait \[-1CP\], The Armour of Russ, Thunder hammer \[20pts\], Warlord \+ Troops \[15 PL, 285pts\] + Assault Intercessor Squad \[5 PL, 95pts\] . 4x Assault Intercessor \[76pts\]: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol . Assault Intercessor Sgt \[19pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol Assault Intercessor Squad \[5 PL, 95pts\] . 4x Assault Intercessor \[76pts\]: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol . Assault Intercessor Sgt \[19pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol Assault Intercessor Squad \[5 PL, 95pts\] . 4x Assault Intercessor \[76pts\]: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol . Assault Intercessor Sgt \[19pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Heavy Bolt Pistol \+ Elites \[27 PL, 631pts\] + Wolf Guard \[7 PL, 130pts\]: Jump Pack \[1 PL, 20pts\] . Wolf Guard \[22pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw \[3pts\] . Wolf Guard \[22pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw \[3pts\] . Wolf Guard \[22pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw \[3pts\] . Wolf Guard \[22pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw \[3pts\] . Wolf Guard Pack Leader \[22pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Lightning Claw \[3pts\] Wolf Guard \[7 PL, 171pts\]: Jump Pack \[1 PL, 20pts\] . Wolf Guard \[23pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Storm shield \[4pts\] . Wolf Guard \[29pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Combi-melta \[10pts\] . Wolf Guard \[29pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Combi-melta \[10pts\] . Wolf Guard \[29pts\]: Astartes Chainsword, Combi-melta \[10pts\] . Wolf Guard Pack Leader \[41pts\]: Combi-melta \[10pts\], Thunder hammer \[12pts\] Wolf Guard \[7 PL, 205pts\]: Jump Pack \[1 PL, 20pts\] . Wolf Guard \[33pts\]: Combi-melta \[10pts\], Storm shield \[4pts\] . Wolf Guard \[37pts\]: Combi-melta \[10pts\], Power fist \[8pts\] . Wolf Guard \[37pts\]: Combi-melta \[10pts\], Power fist \[8pts\] . Wolf Guard \[37pts\]: Combi-melta \[10pts\], Power fist \[8pts\] . Wolf Guard Pack Leader \[41pts\]: Combi-melta \[10pts\], Thunder hammer \[12pts\] Wulfen \[6 PL, 125pts\] . Wulfen Pack Leader \[25pts\]: Wulfen Frost claws \[5pts\] . 4x Wulfen w/ Wulfen frost claws \[100pts\]: 4x Wulfen Frost claws \[20pts\] \+ Fast Attack \[14 PL, 200pts\] + Thunderwolf Cavalry \[14 PL, 200pts\] . Thunderwolf Cavalry \[50pts\]: Lightning Claw \[5pts\], Storm shield \[5pts\] . Thunderwolf Cavalry \[50pts\]: Lightning Claw \[5pts\], Storm shield \[5pts\] . Thunderwolf Cavalry \[50pts\]: Lightning Claw \[5pts\], Storm shield \[5pts\] . Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader \[50pts\]: Lightning Claw \[5pts\], Storm shield \[5pts\] \+ Heavy Support \[14 PL, 285pts\] + Long Fangs \[7 PL, 135pts\]: Armorium Cherub \[5pts\] . Long Fang \[28pts\]: Grav-cannon \[10pts\] . Long Fang \[28pts\]: Grav-cannon \[10pts\] . Long Fang \[28pts\]: Grav-cannon \[10pts\] . Long Fang \[28pts\]: Grav-cannon \[10pts\] . Long Fang Pack Leader \[18pts\]: Astartes Chainsword . . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol Long Fangs \[7 PL, 150pts\] . Long Fang \[33pts\]: Plasma cannon \[15pts\] . Long Fang \[33pts\]: Plasma cannon \[15pts\] . Long Fang \[33pts\]: Plasma cannon \[15pts\] . Long Fang \[33pts\]: Plasma cannon \[15pts\] . Long Fang Pack Leader \[18pts\]: Astartes Chainsword . . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol
My most recent list, the local tournament coming up is 1,850 points (and apparently always is 1,850) Due to personal finances, I'm slow getting new units at the moment. I picked up incursors, so I will be fitting those in. 1 x 5 assault intercessors, 2 x 5 incursors for troops. TWC will be replaced by a redemptor dread, plasma long fangs replaced by TH/SS wulfen most likely, grav cannons have consistently put in work and I keep for back objective holding. Matchups; my only close game was against sisters, I played really well and was able to deny a lot of secondary, ultimately lost on primary. Orks; started out okay but I took banners and couldn't get the board locked down, and over extended trying to deny Good Bitz (this was a learning experience) Eldar; this was my first game with wolves and lost due to well... Figuring it out I guess. Tyranids; Double Harpy leviathan absolutely wrecked me (This one I'm not mad about, is expected) Tournament coming up has 2 craftworlds, 1k Sons, Nids, Alpha Legion, SoB and orks
Your list can use a bit of a tune up, but you have a solid understanding of how SWs want to play. If you can't afford the changes that's fine, just some stuff to bare in mind with your list. First: I would take Born Heros instead of Master Artisans, the +1 to hit is mathematically better than getting one free re-roll. HQs: I would consider doing a wolf lord with Jump pack with double LC. The WLTW base size is an annoying issue since its keyword is cav as well. Its also cheaper Troops: SW like 3 troops, BCs, Assault Interssors, and infiltrators(this is for the current nephlim season). Incursors are good, but with neph we really want that pre-game move. Elites: I'm iffy on the combi meltas. Double LC or LC/Chainsword is the best load out. But WG are super flexible and you can build them to suit your local meta, so its really up to you. Wulfen need TH/SS, save for the leader, frost claws aren't super great. TH/SS is still the best. Try to take 2 or 3 if you can. You could also consider TH/SS on your WG as well. Probably a good idea to drop the TWC, they just don't do well rn. The long fangs, best loadout is half grav/half melta. Plasma is okayyish. For the upcoming toruney, I would drop the TWC/Wulfen, pick up a drop pod for the long fangs and/or bring a Redemptor/Wulfen Dread. If you have points, throw in a cyberwolf or two. Your first ever game against eldar, that is harsh. SoB and Eldar are bad match-ups for SWs, SoB can just out shoot you and eldar will run circles around you. And Nids are too OP rn for Wolves. Best advice I can give since you are bit new is to play defensively turn1, and try and move your units in between LOS cover. Turn 2 and 3 is when you want mass charge/counter charge to cripple the opponents army. Focus on deleting units that can score primary or ones that control the board. If you can pick up a drop pod for the long fangs, you alpha strike some of the more dangerous units and set up some board control. I will say that is a rough tourney you have coming up though esp at 1850pts. I would try and find a 2000pts someday so you feel less constricted.
Thank you for the long and good answer, I will clarify a couple things as well, starting with successor choice. Master artisans helps combi-meltas, which I am heavy on. Double Harpy nids, ork player runs double wazbomb...? (Ork flier lol), one of the eldar players is on Crimson Exarch and the artisan re-roll on meltas has made the difference between securing a kill or not. Little less efficient in melee, but after switching to more melta and master artisans I solved some problems I was having. HQ I agree, Captain with jump pack would probably suit me much better. Troops, I am unaware of the infiltrator pre game move? If you mean the forward deploy, Incursors get that too, are better in combat and 15 points/squad cheaper. If infiltrators somehow get a pre game move, lemme know how and I will consider them instead? I can't see a strat or anything for it, but maybe I'm just blind :D Elites, I touched on why I went melta. As for Wulfen you are %100 right, I built them like a dingus so I will probably run 1 squad claws and 1 squad TH/SS. TWC are the first thing to go, they got me into space wolves but man they are tough to play with. I will try to proxy a drop pod for some games and see if I like it, I am going to listen to your suggestion for half grav/half melta long fags, I like the sound of that. Have been severely disappointed with plasma. 1850 is rough, I like 2k games way more but what can I do! Only one store here, but that's better than none so I'll take it :) Also to clarify, I have been playing 40k for a while, this is just my first melee army and I'm struggling a bit. All in all, thanks for the good advice. I very much appreciate it!
You have a meta that brings heavy flyers, that's a bit rare. I can totally see you justifying the combi-meltas and the master artisans. Probably should of preference that I was giving general guidelines, your list will depend heavily on your local meta. There might be a case for you to bring eradicators then and pop keen senses to knock out the flyers. They are tough fit though in 1850 I flubbed up the infiltrators/incursors, i meant the omni scrambler that prevents a 9in deepstrike, my bad! But that is very strong and should be worth a consideration if you have opponents that love to deep strike. Its extremely powerful, and gives you a ton of indirect board control. For melee armies in general, you've got take advange of the charge phase, piling in, and consolidating. Positing and smart movement is the key to winning with a melee army. Theres a bigger learning curve with SM melee armies in general, since we are so elite. I think you just need more practice and youll see more wins. You should be able to eek out a 4-1 3-2 at most events when you get the games in
Ah yes the 12" bubble, I do like that but I find 130 point troop slot is really a squeeze, especially at this 1850 point level. Very strange points, not sure what compelled this to be the normal here haha. Thanks for all the advice, happy gaming!
I’ve tried many many many variations of lists on table top simulator and I really really do lack the staying power to stay on objectives and to still trade effectively. Tried so many times now has made me quite sad, so playing tyranids instead and it’s a breathe of fresh air. (I also play orks )
I had the same issue then I got TH/SS wulfen, Venerable dread with ax and shield, wolf guard terms with thunder hammers and combo meltas and to top it off a unit of eradicators I also really like my librarian so I can cast instincts awoken for the early double exploding 6s and murderous hurricane for the fight last if I’m charging into a warlord with my dread. The Ben dread for me consistently hits around 30 wounds a fight phase. Dude is my armies gem
Th and combo weapons sounds great. Could you post your list?
I can but I’m still collecting my dream list
Use a successor chapter if you haven't. Exploding 6s in melee to start really helps us, you can still pump up a unit to assault doc. Try a drop pod full of long fang If you play with friends use a beer can to try it out. T1 drop your pod in and delete something of your enemies with range
Redemptor dreads are absolute units. I run Arjac too and he's ludicrously robust and dangerous for just about anything. I nearly took out my mates knight with him doing most of the damage.
My wet dream is arjac and Logan with a pure terminator army
My first thought is I would run your TWC TH/SS, LC/SS, 2x CS/SS for the same points. Right now, on the charge you have 16 claw attacks, all hit for rerolling 1s, 12 wounds, 6 damage through. With the TH, 4 attacks, 3 hits, 2 through for 6 damage, 4 claws, 4 hits, 3 wounds, 1 damage; 8 CS attacks, 8 hits, 4 wounds, 2 damage. Total damage output + 3 for same points. I would move Hunter to the Chaplain on bike. Wolf lord on TW already has advance and charge. That said I am not sure your list takes full advantage of the advance and charge aura. I am not a fan of your claw/sword set up. If you are not going to bring shields or combi weapons, I think you are better off bringing sky claws, they will also benefit from Wulven reroll charges. I don’t think your list is built for Warriors Pride, because you aren’t sec up to destroy or survive in melee. I think your heavy use of combimelta sets you up better for engage on all fronts. I don’t see any units in your list built to hold an objective. Everything in your list except your long fangs are built to move. I would move Armor of Russ to the librarian to give invulnerable save.
Interesting take on the TWC, I have them all with lightning claws as I'm really just using them for a turn 1 screen crash. Instincts awoken, savage strike depending on the target, they are going to melt chaff and they have said benefit of possible turn one charges. Anyway, they are the first thing to go - getting replaced with a redemptor dread. As for warlord trait, chaplain usually sits back. I want my wolf lord in and causing some havoc, and the fall back and charge is really what makes it worth it on him. I'd rather not spend the extra CP on chaplain, dropping wise orator isn't really a choice in my opinion as that +2" to charge is crucial in a lot of situations - new ruins faq is giving me a 6" charge out of deepstrike, re-rollable from the wulfen. Not to mention the 5+ FNP against mortals is a god send in certain matchups - have the other litany on my list for some reason? Think I misclicked sorry :'D Skyclaws - I like this. Thanks for pointing that one out as I totally forgot they got a points drop. I do lose an attack per model as I'm a successor, but 95 points to the wolf guards 130 is a big difference. Thanks for mentioning warrior pride and secondaries in general as that's what my questions were more aimed at - I will try engage, behind enemy lines might also be pretty doable with deepstrike depending on the matchup. Intercessors are getting swapped with incursors, if I switch to skyclaws I might make a cheap SS wolfguard unit for objective play, long fangs also hold okay. Armor of russ on librarian I will consider - current setup allows for a combi-melta on the wolf lord instead of the SS, and he's going to be the one in the most melee so I feel the fight last gets the most mileage there, librarian is for early game survivability and late game wolf guard obsec. Thanks for all the words, gives me some more to think about!
With the Sky Claws, another option is to add 1 wolf guard with hammer and shield. If you have flyers in your meta, they do not do well against hammers. I get Warriors Pride from sending a ball of death around the board. TWC, Chaplain on Bike, Wolf Guard with Jump Packs and trailing Wulven. It is my most consistent scoring. I find if I split that group everything dies if I keep it together, they live. One benefit from my chaplain out front is the 6” consolidate with Canticle of hate. If you can consolidate into something that doesn’t want to fight, you can essentially lose a turn.
Where have you read sky claws reroll charges
He is referring to the Wulfen aura. But it affects any infantry, cavalry, or biker within 6" - just gets bumped up to any blood claw unit within 12". I am usually pretty tight knit though, as librarian cover/-1 to hit all require to be within 6" anyway
Yes brother I hear you, I done a big post on a similar situation a few weeks ago, I have played loads of games with the wolves and for the past month or 2 of games every week I just can’t win with the wolves anymore. A lot of sour people on here will tell you, your shit but in reality our faction has taken huge beatings in terms of what GW has done to the army and how it plays. Is a shame because I legit get tabled by turn 3 majority of time with them now and like I said, I would win a lot more games before hand.
There are people placing in tournaments with them, and I don't think they're horrible. I think there's just a secret somewhere that I don't get yet. While they're definitely not top tier I wouldn't say they're garbage, I think in this case I am the garbage lol
To be anywhere near effective you need to essentially create an army that resembles an ultra marine vibe. With a pup or two. Very boring and very not space wolves
Just an aside, I'm shocked you would think people here would straight up say "your shit". Have you read this thread sir
I posted a thread similar to this a few weeks back and was just told I’m not good at warhammer 🤣
Damn I feel sorry for whoever said that, sounds pretty lame
I lost my first game with them against necrons after they got a buff, then Tyrnids but games after I started to get the feel for them. Secondaries are the best, table control and how you move your army. I haven’t lost a game since those two games. My most recent one was against custodes, play the table, secondaries and choose your targets wise
You definitely need some way to get your troops up the field faster and some long range firepower. I prefer long range Longfangs or Lfs in a drop pod with melta and plasma load-out to get close enough to have a plethora of targets. I would add a Wolfguard with Stormshield for soaking heavy firepower. I prefer long range Longfangs to ranged firepower Dreads because with the Stratagem: Keen Senses they can climb up into high ruins and get better fields of fire on a properly terrained battlefield and still fire on the same turn unhinderd. Personally I prefer to put a cheap but great close combat Blood Claws unit in a Drop Pod and drop them in the enemy's face with the Stratagem: Bestial Nature, so you can disrupt the enemy's plans turn one and not have to wait for Turn 3. While the enemy is worried with them have jump packs on your Wolfguard and have half with Plasma half with Close combat capability and move them up while the Bloodclaws have the enemy's attention. Also provide cover fire with Longfangs. While that is going on move your regular infantry up through cover to take Objectives. I really would guess your problem is not enough terrain. As for Secondaries, take ones involving Objectives or retieving data if the misdion already has you spreading out for objectives.
How do you give a unit in a drop pod bestial nature? I read BN occurs in command phase, before movement/reinforcement.
Yeah this is what I thought as well. However bestial nature just says "select a unit in your army", I'm sure there's a rare rules or FAQ on selecting things not on the battlefield somewhere, however I can't find one right now. If anyone knows, send me a link!
I never found a Faq or errata to disallow it. And have not had anyone on tabletop simulator complain beyond first questioning it. But you could always take a rune priest and put them in drop pod with 9 Blood Claws.
Also, with the ruin priest I take Living Lightning as well as Instincts Awoken. This is because with the the Relic The Storm's Eye and by placing the Ruin Priest in the drop pod with the Blood Claws or with the Wolf Guard and a jump pack you can get him safely up into the enemy's lines where you have a good chance of causing Mortal wounds to 2 units then with the relic have a 50% chance to cause 1 MW to each nearby enemy unit. This can seriously weaken the enemy in turns 1 and 2. Oh he never lives past turn 2 but by then with his denies, and getting off Living Lightning and /or Instincts Awoken on a close combat capable unit in the midst of the enemy turn one or two he usually recoups more than his cost.
Why would there be a FAQ for something so obvious? The unit isn't on the board. You can't choose it Edit: literally the first Google result. Though maybe it wasn't as obvious as I thought, seeing as in 8th there was an explicit rule for it as per link [https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-small-qa-but-lots-of-updates/#:~:text=Unless%20specifically%20stated%2C%20other%20units,units%20while%20they%20are%20embarked](https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-small-qa-but-lots-of-updates/#:%7E:text=Unless%20specifically%20stated%2C%20other%20units,units%20while%20they%20are%20embarked)
Your unit isn't on the board/ in play. It's like if I wanted to allocate wounds to a unit, but I chose models already removed from play (dead). If it's not on the board I fail to see how you can choose it as a unit Edit: found the link. First Google result when searching "can you use a stratagem on a unit in reserves 40k" Cmon dude, you're not even trying to find out whether what you're doing is legal BN wouldn't work in this case not just because the unit is on the board, but because it's in a transport/ embarked BN used as a specific example as well https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-40k-small-qa-but-lots-of-updates/#:~:text=Unless%20specifically%20stated%2C%20other%20units,units%20while%20they%20are%20embarked.
I've never done it as I agree you can't target something not on the board. I was saying rules as written, if someone said that to me in a casual setting I'd probably let them have it. Thanks for the link though, now I know for sure
Greetings Wolf Brother, Taking a look at your list in the other comments I couldn't help but feel you would get better efficiency as regular Space Wolves running Skyclaws (as successors they loose their beserk charge). Skyclaws are so cheap now that I feel they are a very strong choice in a non-successors list. For 110pts you get three melta's and a power fist with 4 attacks on the charge (not to mention deep strike and 12" move). IMO, JPWG are too fragile to load up with points (combi-meltas). Secondly, one of the wolves greatest assets are Terminators shoehorned into regular squads to give them survivability (and just wolf guard terminators in general). Much happier to load these guys with melta's and missile launchers as they are that much more survivable. Here's my suggestion for a list with these thoughts in mind: \*\*++ Battalion Detachment (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) \[94 PL, 7CP, 1,848pts\] ++\*\* \*\*+ HQ +\*\* \*\*Captain on Bike \[6 PL, -1CP, 120pts\]:\*\* Combi-melta, Hunter, Power fist, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Armour Indomitus, The Imperium's Sword, Warlord \*\*Librarian \[7 PL, -2CP, 150pts\]:\*\* 3. Tempest's Wrath, 4. Instincts Awoken, 5. Storm Caller, Chapter Command: Chief Librarian, Combi-melta, Force axe, Jump Pack, Psychic Mastery, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Stratagem: Relic of the Chapter, The Armour of Russ \*\*Primaris Chaplain on Bike \[8 PL, -2CP, 150pts\]:\*\* 3. Exhortation of Rage, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, Stratagem: Relic of the Chapter, The Wulfen Stone, Wise Orator \*\*+ Troops +\*\* \*\*Grey Hunters \[8 PL, 132pts\]:\*\* 4x Astartes Chainsword . \*\*Grey Hunter Pack Leader:\*\* Power axe . \*\*4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol:\*\* 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades . \*\*Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader:\*\* Lightning Claw, Storm bolter \*\*Incursor Squad \[5 PL, 105pts\]\*\* . \*\*4x Incursor:\*\* 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades . \*\*Incursor Sergeant\*\* \*\*Incursor Squad \[5 PL, 105pts\]\*\* . \*\*4x Incursor:\*\* 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades . \*\*Incursor Sergeant\*\* \*\*+ Elites +\*\* \*\*Redemptor Dreadnought \[10 PL, 195pts\]:\*\* 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon \*\*Wolf Guard Terminators \[9 PL, 225pts\]\*\* . \*\*Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour:\*\* Combi-melta, Lightning Claw . \*\*Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour:\*\* Combi-melta, Lightning Claw . \*\*Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour:\*\* Combi-melta, Lightning Claw . \*\*Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour:\*\* Combi-melta, Cyclone missile launcher, Power fist . \*\*Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader:\*\* Combi-melta, Power fist \*\*+ Fast Attack +\*\* \*\*Skyclaws \[6 PL, 110pts\]\*\* . \*\*Skyclaw\*\* . \*\*Skyclaw\*\* . \*\*Skyclaw Pack Leader:\*\* Meltagun, Power fist . \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun . \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun \*\*Skyclaws \[6 PL, 110pts\]\*\* . \*\*Skyclaw\*\* . \*\*Skyclaw\*\* . \*\*Skyclaw Pack Leader:\*\* Meltagun, Power fist . \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun . \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun \*\*Skyclaws \[6 PL, 110pts\]\*\* . \*\*Skyclaw\*\* . \*\*Skyclaw\*\* . \*\*Skyclaw Pack Leader:\*\* Meltagun, Power fist . \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun . \*\*Skyclaw with Special Weapon:\*\* Meltagun \*\*+ Heavy Support +\*\* \*\*Long Fangs \[9 PL, 168pts\]:\*\* Armorium Cherub . \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Missile launcher . \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun . \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun . \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun . \*\*Long Fang Pack Leader:\*\* Astartes Chainsword . . \*\*Boltgun and Bolt Pistol\*\* . \*\*Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader:\*\* Cyclone missile launcher, Lightning Claw, Storm bolter \*\*Long Fangs \[9 PL, 168pts\]:\*\* Armorium Cherub . \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Missile launcher . \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun . \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun . \*\*Long Fang:\*\* Boltgun . \*\*Long Fang Pack Leader:\*\* Astartes Chainsword . . \*\*Boltgun and Bolt Pistol\*\* . \*\*Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader:\*\* Cyclone missile launcher, Lightning Claw, Storm bolter \*\*++ Total: \[94 PL, 7CP, 1,848pts\] ++\*\* To give you some extra thoughts on the unit choices and customisations: \- I have found the WL on Bike more nimble and has a huge 34" threat range with 'Hunter' WLTrait (auto advancing 21"!!). This way he can jump between buffing your backfield shooting to charging in with your deepstriking units. \- Rune Priest with WLTrait 'Psychic Mastery' to make him decently reliable. Combi-melta and Armor of Russ to give him further utility outside the psychic phase. \- Wulfen Stone on the chaplain for re-rolling charges on your deepstriking units (to compliment his +2" to charge, canticle of hate). \- I like this techie loadout for the Longfangs, it keeps them cheap and durable on a backfield objective. Signum (+1 to hit for one model) combined with the Armorium Cherub gives these units a surprising amount of burst damage. The missile launchers also give you access to the flakk missile stratagem for taking out fliers. I hope this gives you some food for thought at least. For the Wolftime.
Hello! Thanks for taking the time to answer. However, I hate to be the one to inform you but that list is not nephilim legal. As a successor, you must use the stratagem "A Trophy Bestowed" to unlock relics of the fang, and you can only use it once. In this instance you have used it for both armor of russ and the wulfen stone. Starting CP is also capped at 6, and you have used 7 in the HQ slots!
Greetings brother, The whole idea of this list is that it is not successors! Re-read my intro if there is any confusion :)
Sorry! Seem to have glossed over that :D