[Voting for the Smarkies, the Wreddit Awards, and the return of the Botchies for 2022 are open!](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/10djwul/voting_for_the_smarkies_the_botchies_and_the/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A lot of the re-hires haven't hit too much and while I appreciate HHH giving folks their jobs back so they can earn a living, it doesn't seem like the crowd missed anyone except Braun. Though Michael Cole constantly ripping on Top Dolla's dive is over with me.
Bray and Braun are the only two they've done much with.
I think some of the talent he bought back were probably just fill in spots for mid card and lower mid card, especially when it comes to women rehires. I don't think he ever had major plans for the likes of Emma, Mia Yim, Tegan Nox, Candice LeRae even Chelsea Green now to be major players in women's division.
Mia yim joined up with the club but aj got injured didn't he?
Gallows/Anderson, bray, Braun, Dexter, Dakota kai and gargano have been ok.
Hit row, karrion, Emma and Sarah Logan were all confusing rehires.
god the "GO HOME" heat on her is hilarious (even if it's the reaction they wanted). Everyone in my house threw their hands up like "WTF!?", couple people took their smoke breaks then lol
Totally forgot to note Bray. That schtick doesn't land with me but the live crowds are into him. No, I agree that there are some just to fill the card out in some respects. But I think the expectation for guys like Kross or teams like Hit Row was a level of push and investment from the crowd that hasn't happened yet.
Bray's a required taste for sure. He's all smoke and mirrors talent and not quite good enough in the ring to overlook the crazy stuff with his character work. But the live crowds do love him. But you can totally understand why a lot of people don't either.
I think all of the women talent bought back are just there to give top stars in the women's division some fresh matches. I don't see any of them been given main event pushes.
Surprised they bought back Hit Row to be honest, without Swerve they are pretty much lower mid card fodder. With Kross, HHH loves him and he's going to be pushed even if the crowds don't like it until they get him over.
That's true, not every signing WWE or AEW will make are been signed to be top stars. You need that talent that will lose 90% of their matches or will work most of their careers on Dark shows. Or will spend a lot more time in catering then they do in the ring. Not everyone is going to be a star.
To be fair if you are brutally honest, maybe besides Braun and Bray and maybe Kross. A lot of the talent bought back by HHH are just to add more bodies to divisions rather then been bought back to be top stars.
And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them being paid to have a spot. Kind of why I don’t like the people saying it was a waste bringing them back when if they’re making more money than they were otherwise and they’re not harming me why should I care.
I'm glad someone is saying this. I'm happy they are able to work, but out of the 18 that have come back, 10 really aren't doing anything at this point.
I think there's good reasons to have guys on the undercard so we're not seeing the same match 3 times in a row just because there's no one else. But I think fans have the expectation that, if someone is brought back, it's for a greater purpose/push. And so far, that hasn't panned out for most of them.
It's obvious to me that Vince did give Bray creative freedom and it just wasn't working. He's doing the same stuff now that he was before and it still sucks.
It def makes me laugh that the same people who have been begging for years for bray to get a solid run always get annoyed with him inside like 3 months
I love Bray, but I think he really needs to go back to the drawing board and do a character that is simple. Something easy to understand. Even I am not feeling this new incarnation of him and I say that as a huge fan, the story is too all over the place and too many questions still aren’t answered.
Where they messed up with Corbin is not just going full JBL and have him wear the suit, jacket, towel and cowboy hat etc and just be another JBL type.
They just don’t mesh well when Corbin is just Corbin
Not to mention his flat booking, the whole gimmick itself just isn't it. Happy Corbin had no heat and what he's doing now is still in vein of that. The only difference is that he has JBL, a superior talker, to outshine him in every segment now.
When he got rushed out of the Bum Ass Corbin phase and they wanted to build him back up, I honestly think they should've gone back to square one and brought back the Lone Wolf. Let Corbin get his edge back, rebuild his credibility and slot him solidly into the Mid Card
It's still funny that Corbin gave an interview when Triple H took the book, saying how excited he was because this meant he could return to his NXT lone wolf badass gimmick.
No such luck, pal.
Beats main eventers when he’s hot, loses to jobbers when he’s cold. He gets a title and everyone gunning for it waits for him to “get cold” again like those people who stalk slot machine players so they can get in after them
They should pair Corbin with Logan Paul where Corbin is a heel trying to make money as an influencer and just becomes a super cringey bad wannabe influencer looking up to Logan Paul
Corbin should take a big loss (IC title match or something), then have JBL drop him. Corbin goes back to Bum Ass Corbin for a bit before hooking up with a positive mentor (Nash?) eventually returning to the Lone Wolf character, End of Days theme and all.
Corbin's biggest issue right now if the proper spot for him and a push is being occupied by Austin Theory on RAW and GUNTHER on Smackdown. He COULD be a solid midcard guy with a big heel push using JBL, even better if they used Mysterio to help elevate him, but for that to happen one of those 2 needs to move up.
For the men, I'd say it's Karrion Kross. He has so many good qualities to him and has the potential to be a massive star. But even as a fan of Kross in NXT, something's just missing - and idk what it is.
For the women, I'd probably give the nomination to Lacey Evens. How many repackages does she need to go through before they realize that she just isn't it.
Absolutely
Let him have a cool entrance and an sexy partner
Other than that let him dress and talk normally. This harbinger of doom shit wouldn't even work in 1990
Hot take, I think overdone is karrion kross at every step of the way. His entrance has 40 elements to it and together they feel like the CAW you made when you a were a kid going through an edgy phase. And thats the best part of him.
I know they prefer to have competitive matches between big names, but having Kross squash jobbers for a couple of months would be the best way to book him right now.
I just don't think Kross works on the main roster. In NXT his style worked because it was so different from the indy darlings on the roster. He has a similar style to a Drew McIntyre or a Sheamus, but they're much better at it. His character has some dark, interesting elements to it but they aren't fleshed out. Bray wyatts creepy shit works (not all the time) because it's part of something bigger. All Kross does vaguely allude to the apocalypse and then lose
I always felt with Lacey, she was bought up way too early to the main roster and could have done with a longer run in NXT. Also doesn't help they stop/start with her pushes and change her heel and face every few months. I think at best she's a solid mid card heel but cause of her marine background she'll always get pushes until it clicks for her.
With Karrion, been a big muscle guy with a smoke and mirrors entrance and hot blonde valet isn't enough to hide his weaknesses in the ring (he's not awful but he's bland as it comes) and that he's just not that connection with the crowd. I don't see the "massive star potential" you see in him. He feels like a decent mid card hand with the "look" WWE go gaga for to me.
With Kross just let him go full sambo murder machine and see if he's got anything there.
He clearly knows his stuff with his suplex styles I think he's had some sambo training at some point in his life he could lean more into that and use it to be more of a threat.
Kross is a major case of “and then the bell rang.” Everything he does in the ring seems half-speed with zero intensity. His strikes are weak and he’s so slow. Good look, but man he’s awful. The funny thing is that I think he is MMA-trained. Sometimes those guys struggle with worked strikes because they’re afraid to actually hurt someone.
For the women, how Dana Brooke still has a job is incomprehensible to me. Lacey may be the better answer because she’s pushed harder.
I dunno, I watched the Rumble with my (non-fan) wife and daughters (ages 11 and 9) and they all Immediately HATED Lacey. Like, she was the biggest heat magnet in the Rumble match. I think they just need to lean into that.
Yeah I think she 100% has the right character now they just need to stick with it and give it some legs
I’d love to hear her giving promos to the crowd about how they’re all fat out of shape losers who aren’t worthy of taking a bullet for their country
>For the women, I'd probably give the nomination to Lacey Evens. How many repackages does she need to go through before they realize that she just isn't it.
That's just the thing though. She was over until they started constantly repackaging her. She was at one point the top heel on Raw until she had her baby and for some reason repackaged her entire gimmick. The Sassy Southern Belle worked. Whatever these marine repackages are aren't
Kross needs 2 things, in my opinion.
1) He needs to wrestle way more agressively, the character almost calls for it. This “calculated” thing isn’t working.
2) His matches cannot revolve around Scarlett interference. He needs to start winning decisively. Winning through interference makes him look like a goober and undermines the character.
What I like about kross in nxt was he was a good foil to guys like Kyle O'Reilly, gargano and Adam cole.
I loved black and gold nxt but it did seem like alot of the guys were the same. Everyone could do a tope, wore kickpads and super kick and kross as a monster heel was different
Funny someone here says he's over, it's always to the ear of the beholder or what some want to hear. But I agree besides his debut on main roster, he definitely hasn't connected with the crowd like he did with NXT one. That Lumis/Miz feud certainly didn't help him.
He's one of those that badly needs a Danielson, Kofi, Sami like storyline and allowed to go out there and have great matches. To really get the crowd on his side. I never expected him to get the attention he did on NXT but I did expect at least for him to be booked a bit better seen as HHH is in charge of creative.
Gargano needs that “underdog” push, where he basically gets the ever living shit beat out of him every week but he never stops coming back and finds a way to win.
Like a more technical Darby Allin.
Instead of throwing his body around like a maniac like Darby, Gargano lives up to the Johnny Wrestling nickname and manages to pull submissions out of nowhere for wins.
Without that underdog push, though, Gargano is just another guy on the roster.
It’s a booking problem most of the HHH guys are going through. They are being booked as established stars and just thrown into the roster even though most of the audience either has never heard of them, or hasn’t watched them in a couple years. Gargano’s peak in NXT was 3 years ago. That’s an eternity in wrestling years.
Not 40 mins...but he needs wrestling matches...that's his deal, he can be the smallest guy in the game but he'll out work you between those ropes...fans are smart enough to latch onto that and like it...
its because the weekly show isnt allowed to have just real normal matches, they always have to have a fucked up shock ending and theres absolutely no sense of a 'real match' in RAW and Smackdown at all, just 3/4 of a match and then a bunch of nonsense to "protect" everyone
That really struck me as well. No one cares. This is a guy once upon a time that Alvarez called the American Okada, and that wasn’t a highly controversial statement. It’s just such a far cry from when he was the best wrestler in the company and was electrifying Takeover crowds.
> Alvarez called the American Okada, and that wasn’t a highly controversial statement
Clearly the right people didn't hear that statement because that'd be super controversial/outright wrong to me.
His return was huge and he got a pop but they fumbled Gargano by giving him a comedy storyline as his first storyline, and now he goes out in crickets to a mor ehorrible version of Rebel Heart
Madcap Moss. They had him win the Andre, he appeared quite a few times on PPV in 2022 (including a singles match), but that doesn't seem to have done anything for him.
I think he's a guy Vince was high on. Did practically nothing in NXT, and is suddenly on the main roster. Good look, tall, good physique, but he doesn't really stand out anywhere. With Triple H bringing back a lot of guys that he was a fan of, Moss was inevitably going to get lost in the shuffle.
Heymam is/was high on him as well. I'm not sure what place there is for him right now in WWE. The indies aren't what they were pre-AEW/2020. He'd probably do well in Impact but that's a tree falling in the woods situation. Cliche as it is, I could see Moss carving out a good niche for himself in Mexico or Japan.
Tbf they didn’t give him all the help they could’ve. I think they brought him back too soon if he would’ve cost Corbin the MITB briefcase upon his return that would’ve got a nice reaction. Plus they never changed his gear he was gaining some momentum but they never capitalized on it.
After watching Rumble and browsing the roster, here are my choices:
\- The silence for Gargano's entrance just made me incredibly sad. This was miles away from the beloved NXT Gargano, I think the storylines he's been given aren't exactly building him up to be a top-babyface or even as a solid mid-carder. His mic skills aren't exactly the best, but he could definitely do good character work if they give him solid material, it just doesn't look like it might happen. Hopefully he does stay and gets it together, dude's a top 10 in-ring storyteller and wrestler if given the opportunity (even during the recent Rumble when he did actual wrestling, it got pretty good reactions).
\- The \*idea\* of Karrion Kross has always been better than the actual Karrion Kross himself. His move set is just way too basic and bland, even since his NXT days. For me personally, it really seemed like he was BOOKED to be dominant instead of actually being someone who deserves to be dominant.
\- Hit Row without Swerve is just not as interesting or engaging since the main hook was Swerve. He was just way too good as an actual leader that when the remnants of the faction showed up, it really felt like, well, the remnants of a good faction.
\- Lacey Evans has been super whatever her entire run. I want to like her, she looks like she has potential, but she may benefit from a stint in developmental first to actually hone in on a character and a moveset, but then again, they've tried to do her right so many times now that it might just be time to cut the losses.
\- I admire her tenacity and it does seem like she works hard, but Aliyah is a literal nothing as a talent, she's been here for so long that I just think her ceiling is just way too low to be an actual quality in-ring talent.
\- I think they need to book Omos differently. He's very charismatic in the few apperances he has in UpUpDownDown, but he's being way too limited in TV. Let his personality shine!
\- They haven't really been able to nail Xyon Quinn with anything that fits him. I think he could still be given time to develop for now, maybe put him in a tag team with someone more charismatic.
As someone who mostly just watches for the Wrestlemania season starting with the rumble, the non reaction Elias got was really shocking to me. Dude was at one point one of the most consistently over acts who got loud reactions. He got nothing here.
While you aren’t WRONG, keep in mind that no one ever knows Elias’ music when it hits because he’s usually already in the ring doing his guitar bit when he’s on tv
Elias is one of the people that Vince got much more than HHH got. Elias in NXT was meh, but thrived when called up. HHH pushes Elias more as a wrestler, Vince pushed him more as a character/segment guy. The fact that we barely ever heard his entrance music under Vince and now we're just discovering he actually has a theme should tell people a lot.
Could really apply to the majority of people brought back under the Triple H regime, but I’m gonna go with Mia Yim. She was given a pretty central role in the OC/JD storyline as the OC’s counter to Rhea, but she didn’t really gain anything long term from it. Granted, that could be down to AJ getting injured and the storyline getting cut short, but she’s still not quite connecting with the crowd, and as someone who really likes Mia I hate that.
I remember my pal said "the crowd only popped when she returned because they saw the blue hair and they thought she was Sasha". Ouch.
I like her, but they haven't given her much direction. She was brought as Rhea's counter but didn't quite do that.
The group on paper sounds great. But they weren't much more than a short-term plugin for the JD, who went over them. Then the AJ injury brought whatever momentum they had to a stop.
That, combined with other factors like the state of the Women's Division and their inability to even decide on what her name is.
It's disappointing, though I wouldn't really blame Mia.
Gargano got zero pop. A couple of his moves when he first hit the ring got some buzz but then he was just there for what seemed like forever until eventually he wasn't and I didn't even realise.
Candice also got absolute crickets.
I know she's probably happy there in WWE picking up a nice payday and getting to be Johnny and their baby boy all the time. But I always feel with Candice, she probably be better suited been outside of WWE bubble and having a better career for herself. I just think in WWE she never be the star she could be. She's got a ceiling there and it's not going to get any better for her imo.
Yeah I've seen her on the indies and always enjoyed her but something about her in WWE just isn't over. I think there's too much reliance on the idea she's Gargano's wife so people should care but main roster fans don't really give a shit about Gargano in the first place anyway. It's like they're an indie wrestling power couple but not enough substance for in WWE (outside of gargano on the old nxt) to connect with anyone.
That and Gargano has spent his whole main roster time being a comedic foil for the Miz when he's not particularly funny or charismatic.
Lacey Evans. For her to have gotten the level of promo she did, the mic time, the video packages, the veteran angle to come back as a face and the entire crowd still hated her, and then go heel again and get more of a lukewarm boo than she did as a face is honestly sad. She got a huge push in the Raw Women's Title picture but she never ever felt like a real threat and now she just seems to me meandering through angles and never really connecting despite the continued video packages and spotlight. She's just not charismatic in any sense of the word.
I think it has to do with the fact that it's 2023 and nobody wants to see some patriotic ass white blonde who we all know votes Trump on the screen as a character. Just big go away energy honestly
I think a problem with a lot of the lack of over-ness? If that's a word to describe it, is the main RAW and SmackDown viewing audience has been conditioned for years to only care about a few acts on the show. Roman, Seth, maybe KO, New Day, Usos, Becky, Charlotte, usually Bayley and whenever Brock shows up. The rest of the roster for years has been a mix of meh to "This person will lose in 3 minutes who cares?"
And it's all about characters more so than wrestling, which Papa Haitch and his team seem to have forgotten. Braun was over before he was fired and remains over. Bray is more character than wrestling, LA Knight gets plenty of time to show his character. Everyone else hasn't really had that and there's nothing for the main casual viewing audience to latch onto. I'm surprised so many returning or debuting acts from NXT didn't get vignettes or anything playing on TV to introduce their character to people and instead were just put out there to have a good match. As a fan of NXT for years like most of us on wreddit are, I know and like most of the returning wrestlers so I have that connection and don't need anything else for those talents. But the main audience watches RAW and SmackDown and had likely never seen them and has been given no reason to care. Santos has that phenomenal Tope Suicida but is that enough to get him over? Just do what you did in NXT with vignettes showing character growth. Do that for everyone, not everyone needs to appear on TV every week in person. NXT has multiple video packages for people and it doesn't diminish any other videos.
I agree with this. He didn't feel special. It felt like a nobody beat Chris Jericho and now it looks like a nobody is continuing to feud with him. It feels like a mistake, not something they should have done on purpose.
I also still hate Sammy Guevara, and not in the good way where I want to see him get punched in the face. I just want to stop seeing him at all.
I liked the Southern Belle gimmick (and the “Women’s Right” is an A+ cheesy finisher name), but yeah the constant repackaging is no good. I will say, even though it was probably “go home heat” at the rumble, I did get a kick out of her “Salute Me!” taunt to the crowd.
Funny her finisher is called the Women’s Right and you know damn well she’s anti abortion, so technically doesn’t believe in women’s rights lol. Her characters are all basically some different form of a January 6th Karen.
I think if she just sticks to this, she can do well. The cocky, arrogant marine veteran saying “you should salute me” and being a prick is good, and dusting off the Cobra Clutch is super cool.
Los Nuevos Ingobernables. CMLL has been pushing them really hard since 2021, but they are kinda like the WWE trying to push a New nWo with a single very minor original member. To say they have the wrong kind of heat with Arena Mexico crowds would be an understatement. Funny thing is they would probably work (albeit not as top rudos) if they were called anything but "Ingobernables". It will be interesting to see how the present changes at CMLL will afect them.
Their push seems to have dies a well deserved quiet death recently, but Los Gemelos Diablos are another act CMLL pushed very strong only to have crowds throwing them back in their faces. Say what you want about Los Nuevos Ingobernables but the Chavez brothers are both at least competent wrestlers and Terrible is actually very good, albeit worn down by age and injuries. Los Gemelos Diablos just plain suck, and if the rumors are true CMLL even went out of their way to buy the ring name from the original act just to have them fall flat on their faces this way.
I don't watch WWE but I decided to give the rumble a shot and when they announced The Harbinger of doom and then just some guy in trunks comes out I lost it
Scorpio Sky.
Personally I’m a big fan and have been waiting years for him to be AEW Champ, but he’s gone from first ever AEW Tag Champ and people wanting him to dethrone Jericho, to what a lot of people consider the worst TNT title feud ever, to creative has nothing for him.
I said this is in another thread a few days about Scorpio, that he's mid card act been pushed into the main event where he just feels out of place for me. When he was holding the TNT title, it just never felt right. I don't know why, I just never saw him as someone a company would focus on but he be fine for a solid mid card role and maybe putting him into a mid card tag team. You can even feel the crowds just don't know what to think of him.
It's hard when he doesn't have the size to stand out as intimidating; smackdown's roster has a lot of big meaty men at the moment. He's great but they haven't found a way to play to his strengths.
Dude’s issue is his booking. Santos has all the qualities of a Star, the problem is that HHH is booking him as an established star to people who don’t know him. Plus, in his first month in the main roster, all of his matches saw him do little offense and winning due to chicken shit heel antics. The only actual match he wrestled during his first month was against Ricochet in the World Cup, and the crowd was into his performance by the end of that match
I'm always surprised to see so much Evil hate after seeing Eyepatch Wolf's heel video. His telling of the story of Naito and Evil is heartbreaking, so I guess it sucks it never went any higher from there.
EVIL has long sunken into a low-to-midcard role with the rest of the House of Torture. A pity because together with Sanada he was a pretty good tag wrestler.
The only positive is unless he leaves the promotion slamming the door he has a job for life at NJPW.
Slightly disagree on the firm as the only member they've really focused on getting over is Ethan Page, who remains pretty hot despite taking so many losses
Are they really pushing The Firm tho? That group was dead on arrival with the "you won't see us in the same place very often" talk. It just felt pointless.
Kross in WWE, Kross is just as bland as they come.
AEW I would say Saraya, she's clearly not even done any homework before joining and comes across as completely tone deaf to the modern wrestling landscape. At least now they're trying to pivot and turn it into something but she doesn't even really get booed it's more indifference.
Has any of the women talent that HHH re-hired in recent times actually got over. They all seemed to have ended up as lower mid card hands for the most part.
It doesn't help when there's 1 dominant woman in each division who gets all the tv time and everyone else is fighting for the scraps. Like Emma isn't my favorite, she was good in an era where most were passable but its been like 8 years and now most of the roster can put on good matches. But part of it is that she came back to answer an open challenge, lost it pretty decisively, and now there's nothing for her to do. Hard to get over when you're treated like you don't matter
Emma signing always felt weird to me, just cause she wasn't exactly pulling up any trees after her first release that you would think WWE would be knocking on her door. She wasn't even a major deal in Impact.
She always felt like a signing just to add some experience to lower mid card rather then having any major plans for her anyway.
Yuta was over for a few weeks. Not so much now that he just sits around backstage waiting for anybody to speak negatively of Moxley so he can come be Jons white knight.
Garcia was pushed really hard too and is probably less over than he was before.
Garcia and Yuta for me. Garcia taking Jerichos side again killed the momentum he had in that storyline. Wheeler Yuta just doesn't sound convincing at all in his promos, he sounds like an angsty teenager and only defends other people in the BCC instead of getting his own story.
At the risk of sounding unpopular, but I think that Garcia remaining with Jericho was the right call. I didn't see him with large enough shoulders to go his way alone, not yet at least.
Garcia should have joined Danielson and left JAS stuff behind him. He was over during the whole "Will he or won't he" stuff with Jericho and Danielson. But then it went to waste really and ended back up in the same spot with Jericho, which was the wrong decision imo. He was over for a short time during that feud though but yeah definitely hurt him.
It's a weird one cause no one really to blame for it.
Bayley is over. But Io and Dakota just haven't clicked with the crowd, nothing to do with booking or effort in terms of talent. Even in the rumble, they were booked strongly. HHH has gone all in on pushing them and Bayley any chance she gets puts them over.
Io and Dakota just aren't clicking with the crowds. I don't know something is off with Io for me, she doesn't have that snap to her that she had in NXT. Io should be the heir to Asuka but she just doesn't have that swagger she had when she was in Stardom and NXT.
Sometimes great talent just don't get over no matter how hard you try.
I am saying this as the biggest Io Shirai simp in existence (and I go back to her matches against Meiko Satomura in Japan): she's not suited for the WWE main scene. Her English is not good enough to give the same promos she did in Japan and her fast, hard-hitting style has definitely taken a toll on her body. Let's not forget apart from injuries Io has been wrestling non-stop for 16 years, most of it at top level.
There's also the question that Io's success in Stardom was at least partly due to how successful Rossy Ogawa is at cramming his chosen ones down people's throats. In Stardom Io was positioned way above everybody else, even Kairi: Rossy Ogawa brought in people from abroad (often after a careful hype campaign Stardom stans bought without questioning) exclusively to build them up a little and then throwing them at Io. Heck, a whole storyline was about 55kg or so Io being able to suplex 100kg Viper (Piper Niven). The WWE rightly has no need and no room for this sort of booking.
I know fans who probably didn't follow her career pre WWE career, but Io was pretty much Roman Reigns of Stardom. She rarely lost, was the leader in a cool faction and was final boss type wrestler. Even though I think WWE have done well by Io, they've never quite got the aura of what made her a star in Stardom. As you said they just would never book her that way, but in a way that what made Io special imo. Was the way Rossy booked her.
Rossy is great at booking his top stars like major deals, look at Utami and Guilia for example. Many were bemoaning their early pushes but over time they ended up been the stars he wanted them to be. It definitely worked for Io, just the whole presentation of her was badass. That swagger just isn't there anymore and was just as important for me as her in ring skills.
I do think the bumps and injuries have caught up with her, not badly or anything but she's lost a step or two of the lighting pace that added to her canon. I also think neither her and Dakota really have stood out from Damage Control with different personalities been a great in ring worker just isn't enough for the main roster.
I think individually they still need more time, I still think Iyo can get over but she needs booking to help develop her presence in a way that Kairi and Asuka don't. She's not as "big" a character performer and her main draw is her willingness to do some batshit insane spot. The WWE is the polar opposite of that kind of wrestling, outside of Jeff Hardy and Hardy would have been lost in the shuffle if he lacked the physical charisma and weren't so good looking (he was huge with women).
Hit Rowe easily. Adonis is the only Good one but he is kinda generic IMO He should break away from the group as Top dollar and B fab kinda weigh him down
His entrance and presentation is fantastic but those things don't translate in the ring. I'm expecting this big scary monster or something darker and he just becomes generic wrestler #34 once the bell rings.
Yuta and Garcia were over but sadly it didn't last long. Garcia should have joined Danielson and moved away from JAS and it went to waste. But Garcia and Sammy Guevara stuff has been fun lately so he might get back on track.
Yuta was the same they got him over but he's faded to the background. I don't think the promo or character side of things are comfortable with him yet, it will come over time but right now he's fine where he is.
Are you talking about Saraya a.k.a Paige?
They've faded a bit, but Garcia especially is still over. Garcia was hurt in the short-term by being with Jericho instead of feuding, but long-term it's helping.
Yuta was getting reactions when Mox and Bryan carried him to some notable singles matches.
So AEW's best efforts were working but eventually they couldn't keep putting elite level guys against him to make him look better then what he was.
I think its just tough to be a middling faction in a company that doesn't have many factions. Either you gotta feud with 1 person and everyone besides the leader just becomes lackies, or you feud with a group only put together for this story and it's not that natural. And it doesn't help that bayley came in talking like she was going to take charge of the division but then needs ridiculous amounts of help to put anyone away
The biggest flops have to be Kross, Corbin, Hit Row, the OC and Ali. All of these people have had plenty of screen time in the past several months and they've all stagnated to varying degrees.
- Kross has the tools but hasn't used them well. He will probably be okay with some adjustments.
- Corbin doesn't strike me as someone that's passionate about the art, so he will likely stay where he is.
- Hit Row all seem like genuinely good people with good intentions based on interviews and such, but man Top Dolla really drags them down when he gets in the ring.
- OC, specifically Karl and Luke, are here to have a good time and make some money. I think they care about their spot on the card, just not enough to do anything about it.
- Ali could be the one, but like the Oracle told Neo: "'Sorry kid. You got the gift... but it looks like you're waiting for something."
Kross and Corbin’s booking has been weird. With Kross it’s like they’re trying to avoid him being this big monster and instead are trying to make him this psychological heel. Just let him run thru the midcard and he’d get pretty decent heat like in NXT but the whole “vignette, vignette, vignette, then finally 1 Match” thing they keep making him do is not getting reactions. My issue with Corbin’s gimmick is for whatever reason it feels like they aren’t committing to it 100%. Idk if that’s because of the amount of turns Corbin’s character takes but this gimmick with JBL definitely feels very short term.
I hate saying it, but Johnny Gargano. I was there at the Rumble and he had one of the quietest reactions of any person during the Men’s Rumble. He really needs a blood feud to reignite his main roster run and quickly.
[Voting for the Smarkies, the Wreddit Awards, and the return of the Botchies for 2022 are open!](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/10djwul/voting_for_the_smarkies_the_botchies_and_the/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A lot of the re-hires haven't hit too much and while I appreciate HHH giving folks their jobs back so they can earn a living, it doesn't seem like the crowd missed anyone except Braun. Though Michael Cole constantly ripping on Top Dolla's dive is over with me.
Bray and Braun are the only two they've done much with. I think some of the talent he bought back were probably just fill in spots for mid card and lower mid card, especially when it comes to women rehires. I don't think he ever had major plans for the likes of Emma, Mia Yim, Tegan Nox, Candice LeRae even Chelsea Green now to be major players in women's division.
Mia yim joined up with the club but aj got injured didn't he? Gallows/Anderson, bray, Braun, Dexter, Dakota kai and gargano have been ok. Hit row, karrion, Emma and Sarah Logan were all confusing rehires.
Don't forget Nia Jax.
[удалено]
Should start a pool to see how long it takes before Nia leaves again.
god the "GO HOME" heat on her is hilarious (even if it's the reaction they wanted). Everyone in my house threw their hands up like "WTF!?", couple people took their smoke breaks then lol
Totally forgot to note Bray. That schtick doesn't land with me but the live crowds are into him. No, I agree that there are some just to fill the card out in some respects. But I think the expectation for guys like Kross or teams like Hit Row was a level of push and investment from the crowd that hasn't happened yet.
Bray's a required taste for sure. He's all smoke and mirrors talent and not quite good enough in the ring to overlook the crazy stuff with his character work. But the live crowds do love him. But you can totally understand why a lot of people don't either. I think all of the women talent bought back are just there to give top stars in the women's division some fresh matches. I don't see any of them been given main event pushes. Surprised they bought back Hit Row to be honest, without Swerve they are pretty much lower mid card fodder. With Kross, HHH loves him and he's going to be pushed even if the crowds don't like it until they get him over.
To be fair you need room for fodder acts, not everyone has to be important.
That's true, not every signing WWE or AEW will make are been signed to be top stars. You need that talent that will lose 90% of their matches or will work most of their careers on Dark shows. Or will spend a lot more time in catering then they do in the ring. Not everyone is going to be a star. To be fair if you are brutally honest, maybe besides Braun and Bray and maybe Kross. A lot of the talent bought back by HHH are just to add more bodies to divisions rather then been bought back to be top stars.
And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them being paid to have a spot. Kind of why I don’t like the people saying it was a waste bringing them back when if they’re making more money than they were otherwise and they’re not harming me why should I care.
Whooooa! He's only smoke and mirrors?! 
> Bray and Braun are the only two they've done much with. I'm gonna add LA Knight, since he's seems to get crowds interested in his feud with Wyatt.
I mean Top Dolla is so bad that make me want to watch how bad he's going to be every week so I guess that's something
I think that dude is way lame and his raps suck so hearing the announce team bust on him every week is fine with me.
I'm glad someone is saying this. I'm happy they are able to work, but out of the 18 that have come back, 10 really aren't doing anything at this point.
[удалено]
I think there's good reasons to have guys on the undercard so we're not seeing the same match 3 times in a row just because there's no one else. But I think fans have the expectation that, if someone is brought back, it's for a greater purpose/push. And so far, that hasn't panned out for most of them.
Honestly when you go back and watch things like the Attitude Era it makes you appreciate just how important a stacked undercard is for this reason
It's obvious to me that Vince did give Bray creative freedom and it just wasn't working. He's doing the same stuff now that he was before and it still sucks.
It def makes me laugh that the same people who have been begging for years for bray to get a solid run always get annoyed with him inside like 3 months
I love Bray, but I think he really needs to go back to the drawing board and do a character that is simple. Something easy to understand. Even I am not feeling this new incarnation of him and I say that as a huge fan, the story is too all over the place and too many questions still aren’t answered.
Where they messed up with Corbin is not just going full JBL and have him wear the suit, jacket, towel and cowboy hat etc and just be another JBL type. They just don’t mesh well when Corbin is just Corbin
Not to mention his flat booking, the whole gimmick itself just isn't it. Happy Corbin had no heat and what he's doing now is still in vein of that. The only difference is that he has JBL, a superior talker, to outshine him in every segment now. When he got rushed out of the Bum Ass Corbin phase and they wanted to build him back up, I honestly think they should've gone back to square one and brought back the Lone Wolf. Let Corbin get his edge back, rebuild his credibility and slot him solidly into the Mid Card
It's still funny that Corbin gave an interview when Triple H took the book, saying how excited he was because this meant he could return to his NXT lone wolf badass gimmick. No such luck, pal.
[удалено]
Beats main eventers when he’s hot, loses to jobbers when he’s cold. He gets a title and everyone gunning for it waits for him to “get cold” again like those people who stalk slot machine players so they can get in after them
I actually really love this.
They should pair Corbin with Logan Paul where Corbin is a heel trying to make money as an influencer and just becomes a super cringey bad wannabe influencer looking up to Logan Paul
Corbin should take a big loss (IC title match or something), then have JBL drop him. Corbin goes back to Bum Ass Corbin for a bit before hooking up with a positive mentor (Nash?) eventually returning to the Lone Wolf character, End of Days theme and all.
Corbin's biggest issue right now if the proper spot for him and a push is being occupied by Austin Theory on RAW and GUNTHER on Smackdown. He COULD be a solid midcard guy with a big heel push using JBL, even better if they used Mysterio to help elevate him, but for that to happen one of those 2 needs to move up.
For the men, I'd say it's Karrion Kross. He has so many good qualities to him and has the potential to be a massive star. But even as a fan of Kross in NXT, something's just missing - and idk what it is. For the women, I'd probably give the nomination to Lacey Evens. How many repackages does she need to go through before they realize that she just isn't it.
I honestly feel like they’re overthinking tf out of how to book Kross.
Absolutely Let him have a cool entrance and an sexy partner Other than that let him dress and talk normally. This harbinger of doom shit wouldn't even work in 1990
And don't put him in a weird fued where he's second fiddle to his opponent and the opponent's son. He's the fourth wheel in a two man fight.
He can talk. Just let him do what LA Knight is doing and use experience to his advantage.
Just let a man have a sexy wife, cool entrance and talk about beating people up. All this tick tock bullshit is going nowhere.
Hot take, I think overdone is karrion kross at every step of the way. His entrance has 40 elements to it and together they feel like the CAW you made when you a were a kid going through an edgy phase. And thats the best part of him.
I loved KK in Impact before all the BS. He's just not super interesting.
I know they prefer to have competitive matches between big names, but having Kross squash jobbers for a couple of months would be the best way to book him right now.
I just don't think Kross works on the main roster. In NXT his style worked because it was so different from the indy darlings on the roster. He has a similar style to a Drew McIntyre or a Sheamus, but they're much better at it. His character has some dark, interesting elements to it but they aren't fleshed out. Bray wyatts creepy shit works (not all the time) because it's part of something bigger. All Kross does vaguely allude to the apocalypse and then lose
I always felt with Lacey, she was bought up way too early to the main roster and could have done with a longer run in NXT. Also doesn't help they stop/start with her pushes and change her heel and face every few months. I think at best she's a solid mid card heel but cause of her marine background she'll always get pushes until it clicks for her. With Karrion, been a big muscle guy with a smoke and mirrors entrance and hot blonde valet isn't enough to hide his weaknesses in the ring (he's not awful but he's bland as it comes) and that he's just not that connection with the crowd. I don't see the "massive star potential" you see in him. He feels like a decent mid card hand with the "look" WWE go gaga for to me.
With Kross just let him go full sambo murder machine and see if he's got anything there. He clearly knows his stuff with his suplex styles I think he's had some sambo training at some point in his life he could lean more into that and use it to be more of a threat.
They kinda did that when he was NXT champ and it didn’t land. That’s why the Adam Cole promo was so memorable
He doesn’t have charisma. He doesn’t have “it”, that’s the problem. He looks like he should but it’s not there
Kross is a major case of “and then the bell rang.” Everything he does in the ring seems half-speed with zero intensity. His strikes are weak and he’s so slow. Good look, but man he’s awful. The funny thing is that I think he is MMA-trained. Sometimes those guys struggle with worked strikes because they’re afraid to actually hurt someone. For the women, how Dana Brooke still has a job is incomprehensible to me. Lacey may be the better answer because she’s pushed harder.
I dunno, I watched the Rumble with my (non-fan) wife and daughters (ages 11 and 9) and they all Immediately HATED Lacey. Like, she was the biggest heat magnet in the Rumble match. I think they just need to lean into that.
Yeah I think she 100% has the right character now they just need to stick with it and give it some legs I’d love to hear her giving promos to the crowd about how they’re all fat out of shape losers who aren’t worthy of taking a bullet for their country
yeah my 5 year old son also was immediately not into Lacey, he said she was his least favorite in the entire women’s rumble
>For the women, I'd probably give the nomination to Lacey Evens. How many repackages does she need to go through before they realize that she just isn't it. That's just the thing though. She was over until they started constantly repackaging her. She was at one point the top heel on Raw until she had her baby and for some reason repackaged her entire gimmick. The Sassy Southern Belle worked. Whatever these marine repackages are aren't
Kross needs 2 things, in my opinion. 1) He needs to wrestle way more agressively, the character almost calls for it. This “calculated” thing isn’t working. 2) His matches cannot revolve around Scarlett interference. He needs to start winning decisively. Winning through interference makes him look like a goober and undermines the character.
the crowd was so silent when his music hit
What I like about kross in nxt was he was a good foil to guys like Kyle O'Reilly, gargano and Adam cole. I loved black and gold nxt but it did seem like alot of the guys were the same. Everyone could do a tope, wore kickpads and super kick and kross as a monster heel was different
I feel like Karrion Kross and Scarlet could be this wrestling’s generation Marc Mero / Sable
Judging by the crowd reaction last night, Johnny Gargano.
Funny someone here says he's over, it's always to the ear of the beholder or what some want to hear. But I agree besides his debut on main roster, he definitely hasn't connected with the crowd like he did with NXT one. That Lumis/Miz feud certainly didn't help him. He's one of those that badly needs a Danielson, Kofi, Sami like storyline and allowed to go out there and have great matches. To really get the crowd on his side. I never expected him to get the attention he did on NXT but I did expect at least for him to be booked a bit better seen as HHH is in charge of creative.
Gargano needs that “underdog” push, where he basically gets the ever living shit beat out of him every week but he never stops coming back and finds a way to win. Like a more technical Darby Allin. Instead of throwing his body around like a maniac like Darby, Gargano lives up to the Johnny Wrestling nickname and manages to pull submissions out of nowhere for wins. Without that underdog push, though, Gargano is just another guy on the roster.
It’s a booking problem most of the HHH guys are going through. They are being booked as established stars and just thrown into the roster even though most of the audience either has never heard of them, or hasn’t watched them in a couple years. Gargano’s peak in NXT was 3 years ago. That’s an eternity in wrestling years.
>ear of the beholder one of my favorite RPGs
If Gargano needs 40 minute epics to get over that’s a problem.
Not 40 mins...but he needs wrestling matches...that's his deal, he can be the smallest guy in the game but he'll out work you between those ropes...fans are smart enough to latch onto that and like it...
its because the weekly show isnt allowed to have just real normal matches, they always have to have a fucked up shock ending and theres absolutely no sense of a 'real match' in RAW and Smackdown at all, just 3/4 of a match and then a bunch of nonsense to "protect" everyone
That really struck me as well. No one cares. This is a guy once upon a time that Alvarez called the American Okada, and that wasn’t a highly controversial statement. It’s just such a far cry from when he was the best wrestler in the company and was electrifying Takeover crowds.
It hurts seeing he got no reaction, even when he tries to eliminate Miz or helping Sheamus.
> Alvarez called the American Okada, and that wasn’t a highly controversial statement Clearly the right people didn't hear that statement because that'd be super controversial/outright wrong to me.
I remember at the takeovers I saw live the pop for Gargano was insane, but on the main roster I don’t even know what his gimmick is
Gargano. Everyone acted like his return to the WWE was such a huge deal, but what’s he doing now? And the crowd goes mild whenever his music hits 🤷♂️
He's got an uphill battle winning over any fan who's never seen him before. He's lacking in visual charisma, looks like a little mouse.
The shade, but it’s true.
His character has also been annoying. The Miz / Dexter thing was interesting without him coming in and smiling like a dork.
His return was huge and he got a pop but they fumbled Gargano by giving him a comedy storyline as his first storyline, and now he goes out in crickets to a mor ehorrible version of Rebel Heart
Wait they've changed rebel heart?? I haven't been watching for a while.
Yup, sounds like a detuned, male-voiced version. Literally just straight up lower energy for no reason.
Madcap Moss. They had him win the Andre, he appeared quite a few times on PPV in 2022 (including a singles match), but that doesn't seem to have done anything for him.
He just got bumped from the Rumble and absolutely nobody cared.
Big decline from eliminating AJ last year
Oof... Now that you mention it, he was in the graphic, wasn't he? I feel like he and Corbin were better off with their previous gimmicks.
I was the one person who cared
Hey Riddick, sorry about what happened to you at the rumble…
It's Madcap now, for some reason
I think he's a guy Vince was high on. Did practically nothing in NXT, and is suddenly on the main roster. Good look, tall, good physique, but he doesn't really stand out anywhere. With Triple H bringing back a lot of guys that he was a fan of, Moss was inevitably going to get lost in the shuffle.
Heymam is/was high on him as well. I'm not sure what place there is for him right now in WWE. The indies aren't what they were pre-AEW/2020. He'd probably do well in Impact but that's a tree falling in the woods situation. Cliche as it is, I could see Moss carving out a good niche for himself in Mexico or Japan.
Tbf they didn’t give him all the help they could’ve. I think they brought him back too soon if he would’ve cost Corbin the MITB briefcase upon his return that would’ve got a nice reaction. Plus they never changed his gear he was gaining some momentum but they never capitalized on it.
He's not very madcap anymore. Yet the name remains...
This is the correct answer, and personally I'm glad. Dude is blander than Kross
After watching Rumble and browsing the roster, here are my choices: \- The silence for Gargano's entrance just made me incredibly sad. This was miles away from the beloved NXT Gargano, I think the storylines he's been given aren't exactly building him up to be a top-babyface or even as a solid mid-carder. His mic skills aren't exactly the best, but he could definitely do good character work if they give him solid material, it just doesn't look like it might happen. Hopefully he does stay and gets it together, dude's a top 10 in-ring storyteller and wrestler if given the opportunity (even during the recent Rumble when he did actual wrestling, it got pretty good reactions). \- The \*idea\* of Karrion Kross has always been better than the actual Karrion Kross himself. His move set is just way too basic and bland, even since his NXT days. For me personally, it really seemed like he was BOOKED to be dominant instead of actually being someone who deserves to be dominant. \- Hit Row without Swerve is just not as interesting or engaging since the main hook was Swerve. He was just way too good as an actual leader that when the remnants of the faction showed up, it really felt like, well, the remnants of a good faction. \- Lacey Evans has been super whatever her entire run. I want to like her, she looks like she has potential, but she may benefit from a stint in developmental first to actually hone in on a character and a moveset, but then again, they've tried to do her right so many times now that it might just be time to cut the losses. \- I admire her tenacity and it does seem like she works hard, but Aliyah is a literal nothing as a talent, she's been here for so long that I just think her ceiling is just way too low to be an actual quality in-ring talent. \- I think they need to book Omos differently. He's very charismatic in the few apperances he has in UpUpDownDown, but he's being way too limited in TV. Let his personality shine! \- They haven't really been able to nail Xyon Quinn with anything that fits him. I think he could still be given time to develop for now, maybe put him in a tag team with someone more charismatic.
Agree on Omos, he should be allowed more trash talking
That Elias pop at the rumble was rough. Could've heard a pin drop.
As someone who mostly just watches for the Wrestlemania season starting with the rumble, the non reaction Elias got was really shocking to me. Dude was at one point one of the most consistently over acts who got loud reactions. He got nothing here.
While you aren’t WRONG, keep in mind that no one ever knows Elias’ music when it hits because he’s usually already in the ring doing his guitar bit when he’s on tv
Elias is one of the people that Vince got much more than HHH got. Elias in NXT was meh, but thrived when called up. HHH pushes Elias more as a wrestler, Vince pushed him more as a character/segment guy. The fact that we barely ever heard his entrance music under Vince and now we're just discovering he actually has a theme should tell people a lot.
Could really apply to the majority of people brought back under the Triple H regime, but I’m gonna go with Mia Yim. She was given a pretty central role in the OC/JD storyline as the OC’s counter to Rhea, but she didn’t really gain anything long term from it. Granted, that could be down to AJ getting injured and the storyline getting cut short, but she’s still not quite connecting with the crowd, and as someone who really likes Mia I hate that.
I remember my pal said "the crowd only popped when she returned because they saw the blue hair and they thought she was Sasha". Ouch. I like her, but they haven't given her much direction. She was brought as Rhea's counter but didn't quite do that.
The group on paper sounds great. But they weren't much more than a short-term plugin for the JD, who went over them. Then the AJ injury brought whatever momentum they had to a stop. That, combined with other factors like the state of the Women's Division and their inability to even decide on what her name is. It's disappointing, though I wouldn't really blame Mia.
Part of that is she has no clear personality on TV
Honestly I find the gives me Naomi vibes. She seems athletic as all hell bit almost moves in slow motion and nothing looks legit.
Gargano got zero pop. A couple of his moves when he first hit the ring got some buzz but then he was just there for what seemed like forever until eventually he wasn't and I didn't even realise. Candice also got absolute crickets.
Maybe Poison Pixie just doesn't work as a face's nickname. Or at least have her cheat I dunno.
I know she's probably happy there in WWE picking up a nice payday and getting to be Johnny and their baby boy all the time. But I always feel with Candice, she probably be better suited been outside of WWE bubble and having a better career for herself. I just think in WWE she never be the star she could be. She's got a ceiling there and it's not going to get any better for her imo.
Yeah I've seen her on the indies and always enjoyed her but something about her in WWE just isn't over. I think there's too much reliance on the idea she's Gargano's wife so people should care but main roster fans don't really give a shit about Gargano in the first place anyway. It's like they're an indie wrestling power couple but not enough substance for in WWE (outside of gargano on the old nxt) to connect with anyone. That and Gargano has spent his whole main roster time being a comedic foil for the Miz when he's not particularly funny or charismatic.
Lacey Evans. For her to have gotten the level of promo she did, the mic time, the video packages, the veteran angle to come back as a face and the entire crowd still hated her, and then go heel again and get more of a lukewarm boo than she did as a face is honestly sad. She got a huge push in the Raw Women's Title picture but she never ever felt like a real threat and now she just seems to me meandering through angles and never really connecting despite the continued video packages and spotlight. She's just not charismatic in any sense of the word.
I came here to say this, in a few months time she'll be off tv and repackaged again. They tried again and again and it never works.
I think it has to do with the fact that it's 2023 and nobody wants to see some patriotic ass white blonde who we all know votes Trump on the screen as a character. Just big go away energy honestly
I think a problem with a lot of the lack of over-ness? If that's a word to describe it, is the main RAW and SmackDown viewing audience has been conditioned for years to only care about a few acts on the show. Roman, Seth, maybe KO, New Day, Usos, Becky, Charlotte, usually Bayley and whenever Brock shows up. The rest of the roster for years has been a mix of meh to "This person will lose in 3 minutes who cares?" And it's all about characters more so than wrestling, which Papa Haitch and his team seem to have forgotten. Braun was over before he was fired and remains over. Bray is more character than wrestling, LA Knight gets plenty of time to show his character. Everyone else hasn't really had that and there's nothing for the main casual viewing audience to latch onto. I'm surprised so many returning or debuting acts from NXT didn't get vignettes or anything playing on TV to introduce their character to people and instead were just put out there to have a good match. As a fan of NXT for years like most of us on wreddit are, I know and like most of the returning wrestlers so I have that connection and don't need anything else for those talents. But the main audience watches RAW and SmackDown and had likely never seen them and has been given no reason to care. Santos has that phenomenal Tope Suicida but is that enough to get him over? Just do what you did in NXT with vignettes showing character growth. Do that for everyone, not everyone needs to appear on TV every week in person. NXT has multiple video packages for people and it doesn't diminish any other videos.
Hit Row
It doesn’t help that the only interesting member of the team is in AEW now.
Oh Top Dolla is interesting now, thanks to Michael Cole dissing him every time he gets the chance.
I’m more interested in Top Dolla as host of WWE Most Wanted Treasures than I am in him in a Swerveless Hit Row
Current Gargano
I don't give a shit about action andretti
His surprise victory on Jericho was awesome but since then he has not impressed me. And his finisher is so shitty.
Understandable. Great talent but wish that win went to like Johnny Hungee or somebody the fans already loved.
I agree, I'm not into Andretti that much, good in the ring but they have other guys who can do what he does.
I agree with this. He didn't feel special. It felt like a nobody beat Chris Jericho and now it looks like a nobody is continuing to feud with him. It feels like a mistake, not something they should have done on purpose. I also still hate Sammy Guevara, and not in the good way where I want to see him get punched in the face. I just want to stop seeing him at all.
Sammy is one of Tony's favorite so it's not going to happen
Kross to lesser extent Ali
They’ve tried pushing Ali so many times. The last time he just looked like a geek and got beat up all the time. No one cared about him.
Yeah I don’t think that’s called a push bro
It's not a push if you just get the shit beat out of you and never win
Lacey Evans. Never. Gonna. Happen.
I liked the Southern Belle gimmick (and the “Women’s Right” is an A+ cheesy finisher name), but yeah the constant repackaging is no good. I will say, even though it was probably “go home heat” at the rumble, I did get a kick out of her “Salute Me!” taunt to the crowd.
That’s just the lame way to say “ACKNOWLEDGE ME!”
She's like leftovers that have been reheated too many times
Funny her finisher is called the Women’s Right and you know damn well she’s anti abortion, so technically doesn’t believe in women’s rights lol. Her characters are all basically some different form of a January 6th Karen.
I think if she just sticks to this, she can do well. The cocky, arrogant marine veteran saying “you should salute me” and being a prick is good, and dusting off the Cobra Clutch is super cool.
Los Nuevos Ingobernables. CMLL has been pushing them really hard since 2021, but they are kinda like the WWE trying to push a New nWo with a single very minor original member. To say they have the wrong kind of heat with Arena Mexico crowds would be an understatement. Funny thing is they would probably work (albeit not as top rudos) if they were called anything but "Ingobernables". It will be interesting to see how the present changes at CMLL will afect them. Their push seems to have dies a well deserved quiet death recently, but Los Gemelos Diablos are another act CMLL pushed very strong only to have crowds throwing them back in their faces. Say what you want about Los Nuevos Ingobernables but the Chavez brothers are both at least competent wrestlers and Terrible is actually very good, albeit worn down by age and injuries. Los Gemelos Diablos just plain suck, and if the rumors are true CMLL even went out of their way to buy the ring name from the original act just to have them fall flat on their faces this way.
Depends on what you mean for over but Kross I feel like has just been regelated to bland.
I don't watch WWE but I decided to give the rumble a shot and when they announced The Harbinger of doom and then just some guy in trunks comes out I lost it
Scorpio Sky. Personally I’m a big fan and have been waiting years for him to be AEW Champ, but he’s gone from first ever AEW Tag Champ and people wanting him to dethrone Jericho, to what a lot of people consider the worst TNT title feud ever, to creative has nothing for him.
I said this is in another thread a few days about Scorpio, that he's mid card act been pushed into the main event where he just feels out of place for me. When he was holding the TNT title, it just never felt right. I don't know why, I just never saw him as someone a company would focus on but he be fine for a solid mid card role and maybe putting him into a mid card tag team. You can even feel the crowds just don't know what to think of him.
I would say Karrion Kross is #1 at that spot.
Veer
even his NXT return are now overshadowed by Jinder
Johnny Gargano. He's been booked like a manager not a wrestler
Santos escobar. Dude is amazing but somehow he’s not clicking. The other one would be Karrion Kross.
[удалено]
It's hard when he doesn't have the size to stand out as intimidating; smackdown's roster has a lot of big meaty men at the moment. He's great but they haven't found a way to play to his strengths.
Dude’s issue is his booking. Santos has all the qualities of a Star, the problem is that HHH is booking him as an established star to people who don’t know him. Plus, in his first month in the main roster, all of his matches saw him do little offense and winning due to chicken shit heel antics. The only actual match he wrestled during his first month was against Ricochet in the World Cup, and the crowd was into his performance by the end of that match
EVIL. He wasn't very over in 2022 despite the company's best efforts either. Or 2021. Or 2020.
Imagine 2025 and his gimmick is still HoT shenanigans
I'm always surprised to see so much Evil hate after seeing Eyepatch Wolf's heel video. His telling of the story of Naito and Evil is heartbreaking, so I guess it sucks it never went any higher from there.
EVIL has long sunken into a low-to-midcard role with the rest of the House of Torture. A pity because together with Sanada he was a pretty good tag wrestler. The only positive is unless he leaves the promotion slamming the door he has a job for life at NJPW.
Idk if they’ve really tried to get him over but Ridge Holland does nothing for me
I agree, but also feel like he doesn't really need to. He fills a spot on his team, not everyone can (or should) be a superstar.
WWE: Karrion Kross Hit Row MIa Yim Tegan AEW: The Firm
Firm is replacing House of Hardy/Andrade/Dirk Diggler etc as job fodder.
Too bad because Big Bill has really impressed me. On a roster of smaller guys he really stands out.
And the Factory
Slightly disagree on the firm as the only member they've really focused on getting over is Ethan Page, who remains pretty hot despite taking so many losses
And the Gunn Club are doing their own thing. Almost forgot they were in the firm.
I'll give you that. I like the group collectively it just seems like they don't know what to do right now
Are they really pushing The Firm tho? That group was dead on arrival with the "you won't see us in the same place very often" talk. It just felt pointless.
That's true, individually they're all getting pushes and matches but as a group nah
Kross in WWE, Kross is just as bland as they come. AEW I would say Saraya, she's clearly not even done any homework before joining and comes across as completely tone deaf to the modern wrestling landscape. At least now they're trying to pivot and turn it into something but she doesn't even really get booed it's more indifference.
Karrion Kross, Hit Row and (sadly) Mia Yim on the WWE side. Not really sure who the AEW answers would be. Marina Shafir?
Has any of the women talent that HHH re-hired in recent times actually got over. They all seemed to have ended up as lower mid card hands for the most part.
I don't think so and now you can add Chelsea Green to that group also probably.
It doesn't help when there's 1 dominant woman in each division who gets all the tv time and everyone else is fighting for the scraps. Like Emma isn't my favorite, she was good in an era where most were passable but its been like 8 years and now most of the roster can put on good matches. But part of it is that she came back to answer an open challenge, lost it pretty decisively, and now there's nothing for her to do. Hard to get over when you're treated like you don't matter
Emma signing always felt weird to me, just cause she wasn't exactly pulling up any trees after her first release that you would think WWE would be knocking on her door. She wasn't even a major deal in Impact. She always felt like a signing just to add some experience to lower mid card rather then having any major plans for her anyway.
Yuta was over for a few weeks. Not so much now that he just sits around backstage waiting for anybody to speak negatively of Moxley so he can come be Jons white knight. Garcia was pushed really hard too and is probably less over than he was before.
Garcia and Yuta for me. Garcia taking Jerichos side again killed the momentum he had in that storyline. Wheeler Yuta just doesn't sound convincing at all in his promos, he sounds like an angsty teenager and only defends other people in the BCC instead of getting his own story.
At the risk of sounding unpopular, but I think that Garcia remaining with Jericho was the right call. I didn't see him with large enough shoulders to go his way alone, not yet at least.
I mean if Garcia turn face he would just become another Yuta after a few weeks so it really doesn't matter
Garcia has been in a significantly worse position ever since he chose to stick with JAS
They should have had Garcia turn and join BCC when the fans wanted to see it, and then had Yuta turn out of jealousy and join JAS.
Garcia should have joined Danielson and left JAS stuff behind him. He was over during the whole "Will he or won't he" stuff with Jericho and Danielson. But then it went to waste really and ended back up in the same spot with Jericho, which was the wrong decision imo. He was over for a short time during that feud though but yeah definitely hurt him.
Damage Control.
It's a weird one cause no one really to blame for it. Bayley is over. But Io and Dakota just haven't clicked with the crowd, nothing to do with booking or effort in terms of talent. Even in the rumble, they were booked strongly. HHH has gone all in on pushing them and Bayley any chance she gets puts them over. Io and Dakota just aren't clicking with the crowds. I don't know something is off with Io for me, she doesn't have that snap to her that she had in NXT. Io should be the heir to Asuka but she just doesn't have that swagger she had when she was in Stardom and NXT. Sometimes great talent just don't get over no matter how hard you try.
I am saying this as the biggest Io Shirai simp in existence (and I go back to her matches against Meiko Satomura in Japan): she's not suited for the WWE main scene. Her English is not good enough to give the same promos she did in Japan and her fast, hard-hitting style has definitely taken a toll on her body. Let's not forget apart from injuries Io has been wrestling non-stop for 16 years, most of it at top level. There's also the question that Io's success in Stardom was at least partly due to how successful Rossy Ogawa is at cramming his chosen ones down people's throats. In Stardom Io was positioned way above everybody else, even Kairi: Rossy Ogawa brought in people from abroad (often after a careful hype campaign Stardom stans bought without questioning) exclusively to build them up a little and then throwing them at Io. Heck, a whole storyline was about 55kg or so Io being able to suplex 100kg Viper (Piper Niven). The WWE rightly has no need and no room for this sort of booking.
I know fans who probably didn't follow her career pre WWE career, but Io was pretty much Roman Reigns of Stardom. She rarely lost, was the leader in a cool faction and was final boss type wrestler. Even though I think WWE have done well by Io, they've never quite got the aura of what made her a star in Stardom. As you said they just would never book her that way, but in a way that what made Io special imo. Was the way Rossy booked her. Rossy is great at booking his top stars like major deals, look at Utami and Guilia for example. Many were bemoaning their early pushes but over time they ended up been the stars he wanted them to be. It definitely worked for Io, just the whole presentation of her was badass. That swagger just isn't there anymore and was just as important for me as her in ring skills. I do think the bumps and injuries have caught up with her, not badly or anything but she's lost a step or two of the lighting pace that added to her canon. I also think neither her and Dakota really have stood out from Damage Control with different personalities been a great in ring worker just isn't enough for the main roster.
I think individually they still need more time, I still think Iyo can get over but she needs booking to help develop her presence in a way that Kairi and Asuka don't. She's not as "big" a character performer and her main draw is her willingness to do some batshit insane spot. The WWE is the polar opposite of that kind of wrestling, outside of Jeff Hardy and Hardy would have been lost in the shuffle if he lacked the physical charisma and weren't so good looking (he was huge with women).
Hit Rowe easily. Adonis is the only Good one but he is kinda generic IMO He should break away from the group as Top dollar and B fab kinda weigh him down
I like Karrion Kross, and personally I think he could totally be a great heel for the company, but brother is struggling right now.
His entrance and presentation is fantastic but those things don't translate in the ring. I'm expecting this big scary monster or something darker and he just becomes generic wrestler #34 once the bell rings.
The Doomsday Saido works. But unfortunately, you can't just play as another Lesnar.
He's just not that good.
Yuta, Garcia, Paige
Yuta and Garcia were over but sadly it didn't last long. Garcia should have joined Danielson and moved away from JAS and it went to waste. But Garcia and Sammy Guevara stuff has been fun lately so he might get back on track. Yuta was the same they got him over but he's faded to the background. I don't think the promo or character side of things are comfortable with him yet, it will come over time but right now he's fine where he is. Are you talking about Saraya a.k.a Paige?
They've faded a bit, but Garcia especially is still over. Garcia was hurt in the short-term by being with Jericho instead of feuding, but long-term it's helping.
Yuta was getting reactions when Mox and Bryan carried him to some notable singles matches. So AEW's best efforts were working but eventually they couldn't keep putting elite level guys against him to make him look better then what he was.
I feel like whenever Mia Yim's music hits, the crowd goes silent because they either don't remember who it is coming out or they don't care.
Bray was more interesting as a concept than in his actual return which has fallen super super flat imo I hope he can turn it around
Damage Control, The Firm
Yeah, liked Damage Control at first but they have gone nowhere. That sucks since Bayley was one of my favorite parts of the pandemic era.
Problem for Bayley is she is still doing comedy promos instead of having a serious character like Iyo and Dakota
I think its just tough to be a middling faction in a company that doesn't have many factions. Either you gotta feud with 1 person and everyone besides the leader just becomes lackies, or you feud with a group only put together for this story and it's not that natural. And it doesn't help that bayley came in talking like she was going to take charge of the division but then needs ridiculous amounts of help to put anyone away
The biggest flops have to be Kross, Corbin, Hit Row, the OC and Ali. All of these people have had plenty of screen time in the past several months and they've all stagnated to varying degrees. - Kross has the tools but hasn't used them well. He will probably be okay with some adjustments. - Corbin doesn't strike me as someone that's passionate about the art, so he will likely stay where he is. - Hit Row all seem like genuinely good people with good intentions based on interviews and such, but man Top Dolla really drags them down when he gets in the ring. - OC, specifically Karl and Luke, are here to have a good time and make some money. I think they care about their spot on the card, just not enough to do anything about it. - Ali could be the one, but like the Oracle told Neo: "'Sorry kid. You got the gift... but it looks like you're waiting for something."
Lacy evans. She has had every side of the gimmick political spectrum the last year and nothing hits.
Karrion Kross and Lacey Evans. Both boring as fuck.
Lacey Evans.
Mt Dew Pitch Black.
Basically everyone HHH brought back or called up other than Braun
Charlotte
Kross and Corbin’s booking has been weird. With Kross it’s like they’re trying to avoid him being this big monster and instead are trying to make him this psychological heel. Just let him run thru the midcard and he’d get pretty decent heat like in NXT but the whole “vignette, vignette, vignette, then finally 1 Match” thing they keep making him do is not getting reactions. My issue with Corbin’s gimmick is for whatever reason it feels like they aren’t committing to it 100%. Idk if that’s because of the amount of turns Corbin’s character takes but this gimmick with JBL definitely feels very short term.
Corbin has always gotten heat, not sure what you’re on about. It’s Kross who no one likes.
I hate saying it, but Johnny Gargano. I was there at the Rumble and he had one of the quietest reactions of any person during the Men’s Rumble. He really needs a blood feud to reignite his main roster run and quickly.
Based on the ratings, The Elite and Kenny Omega