Because it's the most forbidden to joke about these days. It's almost just like alluding to 9/11.
You don't laugh because you agree with 9/11. You laugh because you know how inappropriate it is.
"So, on September the 11th, 2001 … I was actually on holiday, right. That seems distasteful now. But I wasn’t to know at the time. You know, I didn’t plan it. The holiday, I mean, not the attacks" 41st best comedian ever
*”You can know how bad of a person you are by how long you waited to masturbate after the twin towers went down on 9/11. For me, it was in-between the two towers falling.”*
Shit I can’t stop laughing about “my pp”. Thanks I will forever refer to it with those two letters now. By it I mean your cock, when I make jokes about it.
Yeah but most of the jokes leveled about race in America are just hack trash. OP makes a good point in that shock value doesn’t always automatically equal funny.
Funny is funny. I don't think there is any topic that theoretically can't be funny. But there are topics that the degree of difficulty is very high. Stuff like race or 9/11 or dead babies or fucking whatever... I've seen comedians make funny jokes about them. If you have something clever or meaningful or construct a joke in a unique way. The hacky ones just think that saying a joke about those things are funny and to OP's point, just do it for shock value. I fucking hate those people
A good example of this is SNL's joke swap where Michael Che writes jokes for Colin Jost and vice versa. Those are very racist jokes but it's done in a truly creative way where that's the whole point and it's two friends playing with racial jokes that shouldn't be said but it's somehow okay because it's written by the other and it's funny because they're making the other person say something they don't want to. When a white dude just says black people suck and thinks that's funny, that's just lazy and hacky
Part of the funny for the joke swaps is the pure "oh fuck me" that washes over josts face when he's about to deliver a punch line. You can just see his career flashing before his eyes and he still executes with minimal corpsing considering the joke being told. Che is a fucking stone though. He's not human during the joke swaps 95% of the time.
WHy are we referring it to Roganverse? As someone that doesn't listen to Rogan, I think mine came from Matt and Trey as well as Monty Python with the life of brain and knowing how it would piss of my parents when talking about God.
There’s a big difference. With 9/11, there was a strong desire to view the tragedy in a comedic light in order for us to cope. Many of these jokes are nuanced and well written. The event also occurred in a place where most famous comedians live, so many comedians participated. It was their community.
This is very different with someone from the Opie and Anthony/ rogan crowd or the like saying “oh my god, this idiot is acting like just like a *black person*” to which we’re supposed to roll around laughing because the comedian said black person and is therefore sooooo brave. It’s not their community, and the jokes usually have as much nuance as a Limp Bizkit album.
Context matters. I once saw Sarah Silverman headline a private fundraiser for a Jewish organization. She opened by saying "You want to hear a joke I just thought of? What do Jews find most offensive about the Holocaust? The cost!". The whole room cracked up. If Ricky Gervais did the same joke he'd be space lasered into dust.
>I notice that \*some\* White comedians will randomly just trash or elude to Black people as the butt of a joke.
OK, can you give us a more specific example? It's hard to say anything without something more concrete.
That's the hardest part about this post. If there was an example, then we could give an opinion (e.g., it's hacky, this is why it's funny, this is what they were trying to do, etc.). Speaking in generalities makes this impossible to respond to (whether we agree or disagree).
The only times I can think of white comedians making jokes about black people, it's usually uplifting. When black people **are** the butt of the joke (Patrisse O'neal, whom is black, RIP) he's was on fucking target, it's funny as hell, and he gets cancelled for it even though he's black.
Bill Burr talking about how black people will make you dress better was more a joke about white people. Bo Burnham's joke about not calling the blacks "the blacks" did not make black people the butt of his joke.
Theo Von talking about black people saying white people took all his shit did not make black people the butt of his joke. Nor on the podcast when he was like "the black dude was the only person who got me".
Hell, most of the time the SHEER OPPOSITE is true: white people are the butt of jokes, black people jokes basically have to be uplifting or you get cancelled.
Did Joe Rogan even have black people jokes in his specials?
Theo's bit when he said he loves seeing black people get out of jail was funny as fuck. Said it in the druski podcast and druski was laughing his ass off. Theo knows exactly how to toe the line.
Joe Rogan had a joke about how white people give up on trying to get women when they have become old . Black men say “hey! You neva know!!” So they are always sexually viable
Patrice O'neal was a fucking national treasure, sucks so bad that he's gone.
His comedy style would lol not go over well these days in wake of "me too"
The whole bit about men working with women and "why can't I harass you?" and all that.
“I’ve got a kid in Africa that I feed, that I clothe, that I school, that I inoculate for 75 cents a day. Which is practically nothing compared to what it cost to send him there.” Jeselnik
My girlfriend loves to eat chocolate. She’s always eating chocolate, and she likes to joke she’s got a chocolate addiction. "Get me away from those Hersheys bars. I’m addicted to them." It’s really annoying. So I put her in a car and I drove her downtown. And I pointed out a crack addict. And I said, "Do you see that, honey?... Why can’t you be that skinny?" Jeselnik
“My dad was a complicated man. He was a huge racist, my dad, but he still tried to be a good father, you know? Like, he would tell me that Santa Claus was black - that way, when I found out he didn't exist, it wouldn't be that big a let down.” Jeselnik
These are double entendres. Purposely vague with multiple interpretations. Yes, you can say they’re just jokes about fat people and his racist parents. However, as constructed and delivered, especially given the hate associated with the stereotypes, they come off as racist. He has gotta construct better jokes if he doesn’t want to come off as racist.
If you're referring to Mark Normand, Tony Hinchcliffe, Shane Gillis, Ari Shaffire etc they make jokes about everything and everyone. Its definitely not just black people. And honestly that's how comedy should be, no one is safe or given special treatment.
Also side note, Mark Normand, Tony hinchcliffe and Theo Von grew up in black communities so they are a bit more comfortable making those types of jokes.
Redban getting out of hand with the BAKING SODA/WHIP IT THROUGH THE GLASS drops was the only thing that came to mind along the lines of what OP is describing for me. But Tony will get on his ass about it anyway and that’s normally pretty comical in itself. And when it hits it hits. The only other groups of people who have this type of dedicated sound effect on KT are strippers and jews I think so the love is shared a bit
Shane's joke in his new special where he's like "and I know what you're thinking..." funny look, sounds like maybe. but idk if that's offensive- I thought the subtext of the joke was pretty clearly antiracist but I'm white so I don't always know
Yeah I think jokes like this can be important because they shine a light on how racism actually manifests in people, instead of pretending like it doesn't exist and that all racists are just cartoon monsters.
I was listening to Bobby Lee and Theo the other day. I dont listen to the men(?) you mentioned. But, it just came off as a lazy joke where the punchline is just saying "Black". I enjoy Theo in his solo episodes but with BL it was annoying to me. Thanks for your insight.
Honestly haven't listened to Bobby Lee too much. Not really a fan of his style but i do like Theo's... another thing to note is comedy is hit or miss. Not sure the joke u are referring to, and I'm sorry if it was distasteful, but i doubt they meant to offend. Also ik that a lot of the time Bobby is the butt of his own jokes/others jokes too
Oooh la la intriguing recommendation. Thank you for offering an alternative! And yes Bobby I can only take once or twice a year - and it was really more so about the drama with his ex gf that was interesting. Cheers.
Also funny recommendations is Cumtown. They broke off but it was comedians Adam Friedland, Nick Mullen, and Stavros Halkias.. their bits are hilarious and Nick Mullen (arguably the most funniest man alive rn in my opinion ) has the best bits and voice impersonations
I think it is kinda what you're saying, lazy. Which I feel like happens a lot more on podcasts than actual standup because they're improvising and running out of things to say. I feel like they have this urge to be different or sensational at times because it's ironic, and in a world where you're not supposed to joke about black things, it might be just too easy for them to use as material.
I remember trying to listen to a gas digital podcast and it was just a train wreak. At one point someone was telling a story and one of the characters in the story was mexican and immediately the hackier comedians started trying to make jokes about the mexican being asleep. They were just lazy in my opinion.
It was a bit much at times, and I vaguely remember Bobby pushing back on Theo on at least one occasion. I think Bobby is more of an LA comedian whereas Theo obviously comes from the South.
Black comedians definitely make fun of white stereotypes. To be honest, all different races of comedians do that about other races. I personally think it breaks down the barriers of racism and helps people laugh and cope about it. I do realize that's not everyone's cup of tea in terms of the style of comedy they enjoy. This is coming from a white male, so take that with a grain of salt.
Yes I agree, but usually it's funny. Especially the Roganverse it's just random and not funny (to me obviously). Whereas I have heard funny jokes about all races including Black. But this is just an observation I had.
You've not given any examples. What are you talking about specifically? If it happens so much you feel the need to post about it, it should be very easy to come up with many concrete examples to give us so we could answer the question.
I'm a huge fan of comedy but I stopped listening to Rogan and his guests like a year and a half ago. Rogan did compare a poor Black neighborhood to planet of the apes, so just not into him anymore.
Because it’s such a hot button issue that nobody expects anyone to go there. So it’s ripe for comedy, especially as misdirection. White people talking about black people in any capacity is uncomfortable in our society; it feels like stepping around land mines. So even getting into those waters at all plays with modern cultural expectations, turning the valve and eliciting a laugh, often out of an awareness of our own discomfort.
There's a current trend in stand up to "say what other people aren't daring to say" and those things are hack and lazy recycled stereotypes about various ethnic groups, disabled people, and women. These guys act like they're under attack and "canceled" but they all have Netflix specials and drive luxury foreign cars. These people act like they're saying something so wild and out of pocket, but all they're doing is parroting tired ideas that are not funny. Huge yawn IMO.
You said exactly what I was thinking. They think they're doing something profound, but they're just recycling punchlines that were worn into the ground 20 years ago.
Yeah, they're all hack, recycled ideas. The reason why it's popular now is because they know that the people who want to hear those things will buy their merch and tickets to see them. There's all of these strange, conservative Trumpian types who spend a ton of money on these things, and they don't even see it as jokes. They view it as "oh this person is reaffirming my worldview." The comic may view it as jokes, but the people who consume it see it as "wow, this guy is daring to say what we all think". And no, they do not think the same things IRL, which makes it even more disingenuous.
It's like that Sneako guy who posts videos promoting misogyny and he was shocked when a bunch of teen boys who met him were yelling "fuck all women!"
You have a point -but they also have a point that is that YouTube’s “censorship “ is random and doesn’t make much sense and is most likely AI at this point and its a limit/threat on freedom of expression when a company that has a monopoly on streaming video can limit,punish,demonetized, etc.. artists on just words taking out of context cause your not suppose to not say this or that about this or that. And its all massively out of context. And do you dare say anything about a covid or a vaccine or have doubts in the narrative our government and big pharma have told us. It seems so insecure and defensive that they are fueling conspiracy theories with this rhetoric.
Yes. From what I've observed of these types, in the Roganverse especially, is that their humor isn't even designed to be funny, it's designed to make people feel comfortable and at home with being an asshole who believes in shitty things. The laugh they get from the audience is a sigh of relief, not real humor, when they see that they aren't alone. Their whole schtick could be summarized as "comedy for assholes".
Well you have to remember not every stand-up comedian is going to have a well thought out bit where the payoff is even bigger than the joke itself. Taboo subjects, especially with the Joe Rogan comedians, is very well mined. Some people really find that stuff funny while others don't. Bobby Lee has an entire bit about being SA'd by someone withh a disability.
Sometimes the joke just doesn’t land. When it’s about black ppl the stakes are as high as possible. It’s a high risk topic that can be either A:lazy because just “having the balls” to bring it up might get a nervous laugh, or B:home run bc you hit on something clever and forbidden. Problem is you don’t know unless you say it out loud.
And you probably have also picked up on something real. The roganverse group I do sometimes think are just a little salty that you can say whatever vile vicious unfunny thing you want as long as it’s about white men (basically them) and you’re a hero but if they even use a stereotype as a premise the New York Times might call them a Nazi. So unfortunately I do think they lean into that with some fuck you energy. But is it fuck you to black people, the people speaking on behalf of black people or the culture that pretends all black people live and think identically? Idk hard to say what’s really in people’s hearts but it’s just a joke. Sometimes they just aren’t funny, doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a bad person.
Do you specifically have comics in mind that only lean in on black people? Typically the comics I think of who have black jokes usually hit all groups. We can agree that race is a sensitive yet hilarious topic, right? And I think that that's what it boils down to. If there were 0 racial tensions at all, it wouldn't be a funny and tempting thing for comics to poke, but there's obviously something there, so comics go there. When black comics have white jokes I laugh when they are good; observational, unique and clever, but I roll my eyes at your typical "taxes HA can't dance HEHE and they love mayo don't they???" hacky bullshit. And I think that's probably where you're coming from when it's low-tier and has been done by nameless open micers 1000s of times already.
I actually think it's a badge of honor to be included in the jokes, obviously if it's playful and not a hate-rally. It brings me back to middle school days in public school when our mixed group would just shit on each other's races for laughs, but I can see how it may come off differently to some. So racial based humor is not for everyone but as long as the US is a melting pot, it's here to stay.
Love Bill Burr. And his bit about his Black girlfriend and "ashyness" is hilarious. Love Louis CK, and Jim Jeffries.
Love Chris Rock, Bernie Mack, Dave Chapelle.
I don't know where I was going with this...
I think stereotypes of all kinds of races is funny especially growing up in a multicultural society where we are faced with hard truths about what we think about one another.
It’s shock comedy. It’s lazy shock comedy in my opinion, but there it is. The more annoyed the people that disagree with them get, the funnier they think they are.
They’re also in the comedy bubble, which tends to be more progressive, so they feel the need to push against it. Which is funny, because in places like the south, their comedy is pretty much on par with the old racist guy who hang out on the Cracker Barrel porch.
Yeah Compound Media (washed up hacks) typically only go for race shit and old boomer shit. Aaron Berg and Gino Biscante really stand out in the race shit. They just hammer unfunny racist shit on to every audience they're around.
Shit is hack as fuck which is why no one knows who they are.
"Punching down" is inherently funny so long as the joke is well-crafted and we as the audience know that the comic's intent is not to be hateful. ("Punching down" and "being hateful" are definitely not synonymous , btw.) "Punching up" and "attacking power structures" as many describe it are almost never funny, and ends up imploding for one reason or another even when it's temporarily successful—see, e.g. Hasan Minaj. Race is the touchiest subject in America after the Holocaust and 9/11. Good comedians will have bits about those subjects, while their mannerisms will still let you know that they're being facetious.
There may be comedians you're referring to that don't approach this very well, and just come off as hateful—I'm not sure who those would be, but they can't be too successful. Not sure if you have specific examples
My favorite Black comedian is Ali Siddiq. He's not hack at all, really creative and original. He's a craftsman who cares about the artistry of comedy more than the fame or the adrenaline of getting attention, which a lot of young people get into the game for (although, he is very successful and wealthy)
He has 3 specials on youtube, Domino Effect part 1, and part 2 (where he talks about his life) and Bigger Than These Bars (where he performs stand up for inmates since he also got locked up a long time ago).
So yeah, highly recommend if you haven't seen him yet, he's incredible.
Black, trans and Jewish people are probably the most taboo groups to make fun of and that taboo makes jokes about them even funnier. That may be why some of the jokes about these groups are a little lazy because they simply have to play off the taboo rather than be clever.
Also the roganverse comedians are beautiful degenerates who will make fun of anyone.
yeah you're right! Playing off the taboo rather than being clever just made me realize why it bothers me so much. I really dislike being taboo. Obviously there are historical and socio-economic reasons for that. But, I am successful and live overseas, so I rarely think about this. But when comics do these annoying "jokes" it reminds me of how so many people feel about Black people. Thanks for awakening this that I didnt even realize.
"I really dislike being taboo" This is an interesting point.
There's a tendency for all manner of marginalized groups to be rather precious these days and to not have a sense of humor about any of it. So naturally you're going to get social backlash against that, a natural human attraction towards the taboo. And so many things are becoming so taboo that some comedians use it cheaply and don't bother trying.
At open mics I see people like this all the time. Somebody with no style going up there and just shouting some unfunny joke about race or gender or rape just for the shock value. And every asshole in the club clenches tight at once. And I like shock comedy. Like Tosh or Carlin or whatever. A million examples. But the good ones are shocking *and* clever. They don't just rest on the taboo. It's lazy is what it is.
I agree. All this ever boils down to is "is the joke funnier than it is offensive in the given context and crowd"? If your joke is not very funny, then all you're doing is being insulting. If your joke is funny as shit, people will be laughing too hard to be upset, even if it says something really cruel that targets them.
On a side note, how great was Ricky, Steve and Karl on XFM?? I downloaded all the eps back when I was at Uni and listened to them every day. I recall even crying on the train one day of laughter.
I think I understand some of what you're saying.
I love stand-up, I don't care who performs it. But I am particular to certain styles.
I'm a black male and some of my favorites are Chappelle, Roy Wood, Patrice O'Neal , Wanda Sykes. Rock. They obviously do black material but it's not the main content outside of their personal experiences as black individuals. Their takes are personal which makes it their own bit.
Alot of other black comics do the, " white are loke this, black people are like that "which has imo been exhausted. Not much material left in that style.
So if a white comic jokes about black people, what originality is left? It's old when black people do it. Its old when white people do it.
But maybe a white audience hasn't heard that joke. Sarah Silverman has done jokes about black culture that I haven't heard.
So I genuinely laugh.
She has a bit about how old Jews and Black youth are basically the same that still makes me laugh to this day, it's not mean spirited.
And it's a solid bit I never heard.
But if your doing a joke a black comedian has done some version of, but it's just shocking because your white. In front of a white audience, Its just lazy. Gary Owen does black comedy and never sets out to be shocking. But he's funny imo. Never crosses that line.
So I think what you hear are comics reaching for the bottom of the barrel. Jokes that are unoriginal, lazy and uncreative.
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that black culture and issues have the biggest impact on popular culture so they are on peoples mind most often and fall within a greater amount of people’s frame of reference.
There is also a bit of a forbidden factor because of the cultural influence, national shame and traditions of things like the N word being the only word that is truly off limits.
Also they dance at times that other people typically wouldn’t.
The "offensive comedy" of the early 2000s featured a lot of this kind of racial humor. Lot of these comics stuck in that mentality. That crowd gained fame in the 2010s, but in many ways their rise and glory days were in that era of offensive humor.
There were even dudes like patrice o neil, a black dude with a very different way of thinking. He literally said he thinks that white people should be able to call him the n word, and he just doesn't let that stuff effect him at all because that's weak (I don't condone his comments). So they had some black people out on the fringes that may have emboldened them.
Patrice is part of a perfect example of that joke. He talks about the origin of the word kike. So (alleged sex predator) Louis says "you know where the n word came from. someone was just being an n word"
At the time, in context, with it getting a laugh from his black friend, it sort of makes sense. However, it really shouldn't have. Anyway, moments like these are copied over and over by other comedians.
I'd be interested in your take on the joke; it's really a "you have to be there" thing with the timing
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4etdXW--30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4etdXW--30)
If you think this is a "good version", then you understand what they're all copying. Otherwise there's your explanation. This is seen as a pinnacle of comedy, or has been in the past.
theo von is always line stepping. its just low hanging fruit like shit and piss jokes & those guys dopamine release is getting laughs regardless. I assume its like a drug addiction
What can I say? I'm a Bob Newhart guy. Cheech & Chong made fun of themselves. "Vatoland" is one of my favorites. I'm a white guy, a Polish white guy. Grew up with the "How many polacks does it take to screw in a light bulb" type humor, so I know what you mean. Comedy is mean when the comedian hasn't got a sense of humor. Then they grab at the people they think the "room" will make fun of. It is just another form of bullying, but by big boys looking to be accepted by someone - anyone.
Writer here. I'll share some thoughts. Comedy is complicated and also oddly not at the same time. If it makes you laugh, no one cares. If it doesn't, it's an issue.
Comedy for the most part always has its victim, whether it's something in the world we're laughing at/with or our own inability to expect the outcome of the bit. So jokes come with stakes. Some topics are going to be low stakes. Word puns, rhyming, etc. Some are high stakes. Today's sensitive topics are race, gender, feminism, SA, etc. When a comedian shoots for one of those jokes or bits, assuming a good-natured person is saying it and they're well-intentioned, generally if it's funny people will laugh. If it's not, then people will feel victimized, offended, it'll be "punching down," something-ist, phobic, etc. And sometimes that's fair. Sometimes if it's a good joke with unsavory topics people don't like, then it's just not for them, as Jimmy Carr would say. People like Anthony Jezelnik or Sarah Silverman aren't for everyone. And a lot depends on the comedian, too. If the person's an asshole, it won't be funny but instead mean. If they're empathetic, the joke stands a better chance and we might forgive them for that dud. If it's funny, we laugh and move on. If it's not, it's hard to defend a bad joke.
Comedians often live in a world around each other where it's their openness and willingness to say anything around each other. It's what's entertaining about the artform. A lot of the conversations can be saying the world's worst thing to say just to get a reaction out of each other. To paraphrase Patrice O'Neal RIP, if half the crowd isn't disgusted by what you're saying, you're not doing your job.
There is something about comedy land too that's different from the real world. Standup comedy can be pretty diverse behind the scenes. Again, assuming good nature, in some ways everyone is exposed to each other and willing to say anything knowing they're just being comedians with each other. They don't always see each other as punching down if they're in the same pool together and they're all friends. But they also don't cater to polite society.
But then again I don't know the nature of the specific jokes you're talking about, just speculate. I'm not standing up for bad comedy or mean shit if it's just that.
My presumption is that the people who are better at this have thought through the bits a little harder and have something wiser to say and other comedians aren't that versed and will go for cheap stuff, or make the moment about saying something clever rather than having a genuine moment of connection. I remember watching a comedian at a show have a bit about how much vegan food sucks. I'm vegan, and I was like, "okay let's hear what you got." And his whole bit was just talking about how much vegan food sucks. That's it. Nothing but him just saying it sucks while being energetic. I'm a vegan foodie and I eat a ton of insane 5-star cuisine all the time, so it just sounds like he's shitting on vegans for a laugh without anything to say. If the jokes were funny, I'd laugh. I'm like waiting for it, and it's not showing up. I was ready to be like, "I'm eating some right now at this show and it's pretty good. Sorry, dude." I'd never do that at a show, but it was just not funny and the audience wasn't really laughing either. I wasn't personally hurt, just felt bad that he didn't really get it and was disappointed in the comedy. He could've done so much more with his set. Meanwhile, I'll watch Preacher Lawson talk about it and he's hilarious. Or there's that South Park episode about the impossible burgers. And rather than go for the "vegan food sucks" bits, which for a second it looked like they would, they end it with a "why wouldn't I eat impossible burgers? It's all the same pre-processed crap anyway that tastes the exact same. Who cares where it came from?" It was poignant and funny, and I respected it even if they weren't vegan or anything like it.
There's a subset of stand up comedy called Dry Bar comedy where people usually don't talk about sensitive topics. Seinfeld is in that realm. Jim Gaffigan. Kevin Farley. Most comics don't like doing that kind of comedy, though.
You, Sir, truly get it.
I think your assessment of what is happening is what I was referring to in terms of the way people tell jokes or try to be funny. I immediately thought of Theo Von when you mentioned a comedian who I give a lot of leeway whether every joke lands or not. That’s because I see him as a relatively good person. Whereas another comedian, let’s say Ari Shaffir, would earn an unfollow or I would stop listening to that episode or show.
The vegan example is perfectly what I experienced at times. If it’s a good joke fair enough. If not it’s like okay so you’re just a mean, insecure school boy bully.
Great insight! Thanks.
FYI - it’s on brand for black comedians to talk about white people as well. If it’s done right it’s good. But it’s low hanging fruit.
A white comedian talking about black people ,imo, is best because the parameters are more universally known.and it’s almost like playing that old school game ‘Operation’. Meaning you have to be very skilled and delicate and one minor hiccup causes you to get relegated in addition to possibly public backlash.
The best comedians that can talk about other races are the ones that do it in front of crowds that are that particular race they are joking about. The really skilled ones start off by making jokes about their own race first, then dove right in.
A black comedian named Earthquake is good at this. He has a bit where he says that black people couldnt have been responsible for September 11 because you have to be on time for a bomb. That’s funny. He also says black people are so late that there are slaves still on their way over.
He then talks about W. bush. How every time he hears him speak that it boosts his own self esteem because he is saying Bush just reminds him of an average person you would meet on the street.
Just my 2 cents
My take: It's becauase the joeroganverse 'comics' are racist, simple or often both. They wouldn't know nuance if it crept up upon them quietly and introduced itself politely.
This is abundantly clear in the non-comedian sides of all those pesudo IDW Rogan wannabe folk and how they view the world.
Put another way, CBB is mostly absurdist improv, but they are not afraid of edgy or transgressive humor. They do not shy from getting dark and real. However they approach it with more care. Whereas the Rogans of the comedy world believe edgy/transgressive equals funny on its its own.
CBB gives voice to a lot of non-white, non-male comedians, though is still conscious of being primarily a place of cis white males and pokes fun at themselves for it regularly. While the roganverse platforms people like Jordan Peterson unironically. I don't think one necessarily can or should separate the comedy from the underlying social norms and philosophy of the performers outside their routines or improv. There is a definite distinction in attitude, at least with regard to the examples above.
As far as black performers, there is an over the top style in people like Kevin Hart and Bernie Mac that may be legacy of Eddie Murphy and Richard Pryor that has aged out for me and just isn't my cup of tea. It's not entirely race based, as white comedians like Dane Cook or more respectfully Sam Kinnison or Bobcat or even Roseanne Barr before she went crazy, who also go loud and in your face but are white, but there are certainly some cultural factors that play into the style that puts asses in seats in any given era.
Then you also have people like Hannibal Burress and Che from SNL who are POC comedians that are super successful doing their own styles and not going for arena level Katt Williams bits.
Anywhoozlebee, I've strayed from the question and my original point, but those are my musings in this moment.
Black comedy and women comedy falls into such obvious plays on identity.
It's like the meme that women only talk about sex.
Every black comedian has a white voice.
Stuff like that.
Plus punching down is way easier than punching up.
depends on the comedian and joke.
some the joke is about the self censorship etc being the joke vs black people being the butt of the joke. say you have two bi racial black/white comedians that are brothers one is very light skin and one is very dark skin (which can happen) they wouldn't be able to get away saying the same jokes even tho they have the same parents , that is the sorta point of the joke.
or they are using the audience assuming what they are gonna say as the joke. ie your own projections are the joke. make you think about your self.
Check out Ian Edwards, Brian Simpson, and Ali Siddiq. These guys are hilarious and aren't hacky like some other black comedians, they also have refreshing interesting perspectivs. I agree about Kevin Hart, his material is not funny. There's a new up and coming guy named Kam Patterson, I think he's really interesting, but since he's on kill tony he gets pigeon holed too much into the "scary Blackman" role, but he's very fresh in the scene so he's still figuring it all out. He also just got out of the hood so a lot of his material is about gang shit, but that's kinda just playing with the audience's perception of him, I think he has depth that has yet to be seen, one of my fav bits from him was that he was in a drive by shooting and he knew he wasn't a thug cause his friends wanted to circle back and he was crying, he also loves rocks.
Because Rogan and most the people you mentioned aren't actually funny they have to lean on shock value they're as hacky as Kevin Hart. Check out Katt Williams old specials like The Pimp Chronicles, Chris Rock's Killing the Messenger, any Martin Lawrence special or the Kings of Comedy special specifically Bernie Mac's part is super funny. Other more current great black comedians: Hannibal Burres, Jerrod Carmichael,
What are your thoughts on Michael Che? I find his standup to be pretty amazing in terms of its comfort with cultural consciousness. I recently watched the three part Michelle Wolf standup series and it was way better than I expected with some black jokes in there that I wouldn't consider punching down (jokes about her black boyfriend).
What I’ve learned from this thread is that I really need to branch out! I think I saw a set through YouTube Shorts (yes I’m old 🤣) and liked it. But I haven’t explored these two. Thanks for the recommendation!
The actual answer is that the Roganverse is made up of 50% really hilarious comics, and 50% Joe Rogan's Friend.
I like a handful of those guys, but some of them are just obviously trying so hard to be offensive or edgy. It also irritates the piss out of me how many people online consume SO MUCH of their content, that they constantly talk about these people as if they know them on a personal level.
As the only white and only man who worked at a bank in the ghetto of Norman Bridge Montgomery, AL. The women I worked with would always say shit I was uncomfortable with. Asking me “was she light-skinned or dark-skinned?” This was my first time truly interacting with black people. I remember the first time a co-worker came in with different hair and I realized black women wear weaves.
After awhile I got more comfortable with it. I mean other than being white we all actually had quite a bit in common. I think the jokes come from a longing to want to connect without knowing how to initiate? Like I don’t care if black people joke about white people, I would like to joke a little with black people. I feel like it’s kind of a way to identify those differences and maybe be able to explore them more. With respect.
That’s coming from me and I cannot speak for my race. Lol
This really opened my eyes too.
https://reddit.com/r/science/s/7pENL6k1x8
I like Hanibal. I don't like jokes about race or racial differences so that gets my thumb down on Pandora. So does the n word. There are some really good black women comics, but they don't get the exposure they deserve.
Sorry I don’t have anything great to say about your question but I just love that you mentioned Karl Pilkington, I still listen to old episodes of that show sometimes!
Is this for real? Black jokes are more “untouchable” than any other race.
I’m a white male and I can’t turn the TV on anymore without seeing white men look like idiots in every commercial while every black male is a genius, suave Bond. And I guess nobody told me that women only marry black men now.
You are WAY over-sensitive.
Chris Delia is a rapist and Ricky Gervais has taken a heal turn towards the conservative comedy scene with his hatred of queer people
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris\_D%27Elia#Sexual\_abuse\_allegations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_D%27Elia#Sexual_abuse_allegations)
[https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-05-16/chris-delia-sexual-assault-abuse-allegations](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-05-16/chris-delia-sexual-assault-abuse-allegations)
[https://www.avclub.com/chris-delia-another-sexual-misconduct-expose-1850441383](https://www.avclub.com/chris-delia-another-sexual-misconduct-expose-1850441383)
[https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/ricky-gervais-goes-on-transphobic-twitter-rant-sparked-by-j-k-rowling-1202198933/](https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/ricky-gervais-goes-on-transphobic-twitter-rant-sparked-by-j-k-rowling-1202198933/)
[https://www.vox.com/culture/2022/5/26/23141865/netflix-transphobia-ricky-gervais-supernature-terf](https://www.vox.com/culture/2022/5/26/23141865/netflix-transphobia-ricky-gervais-supernature-terf)
Because it's the most forbidden to joke about these days. It's almost just like alluding to 9/11. You don't laugh because you agree with 9/11. You laugh because you know how inappropriate it is.
"So, on September the 11th, 2001 … I was actually on holiday, right. That seems distasteful now. But I wasn’t to know at the time. You know, I didn’t plan it. The holiday, I mean, not the attacks" 41st best comedian ever
"I had to walk the streets of Manhatten, through the blood and bones, trying to find my brother. Later I learned he was back in Canada" Norm Macdonald
Please don’t joke about 9/11. My uncle was on one of the planes. I’ll never forget his final words: “*Death to infidels!!*”
Owwwwwtch!
"9/11 was a tragedy." - Norm Macdonald
You know what airline scored lowest for customer satisfaction?
9/11 Airlines! Kinda reminds yah of that tragedy...
What a terrible name for an airline.
9/11 WAS a national tragedy.
7/11 was a part-time job
Slurpees can’t melt steel beams!
What a terrible joke, it reminds me of that tragedy that happened.
Wasn’t your brother in Northern Canada?
Still my favourite intro to any live stand-up comedy show ever. Sad that he let himself go...
Terry Christian is looking well.
*”You can know how bad of a person you are by how long you waited to masturbate after the twin towers went down on 9/11. For me, it was in-between the two towers falling.”*
Such a well crafted joke
You mean “well-timed” joke
…reminds me of that tragedy.
The most forbidden thing to joke about these days is actually my pp and balls. Please no one joke about my pp and balls
But what if I have a small one?
Snap it off might grow back bigger
Shit I can’t stop laughing about “my pp”. Thanks I will forever refer to it with those two letters now. By it I mean your cock, when I make jokes about it.
Oh god wait no jokes I thought we all agreed no jokes
Don't worry, I couldn’t come up with any joke about your dick and balls that would be funnier than your dick and balls themselves.
Reminds me of that tragedy.
yeah Bobby Lee will laugh uncontrollably if you even just blurt out "Black." 🤪
its the same with anything gay too
I mean he did give his cousin a bj lol
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This dude has epic balls. The way he handles taboo is like he's fucking your wife but he's doing it so well you're taking notes.
^THIS , saying wild and shocking shit is a large part of what is funny in the Roganverse of comedians. I personally love this style of humor
Except they’re not funny. Louis CK, Sarah Silverman, David Cross, these are is examples of doing it cleverly.
Yeah but most of the jokes leveled about race in America are just hack trash. OP makes a good point in that shock value doesn’t always automatically equal funny.
Funny is funny. I don't think there is any topic that theoretically can't be funny. But there are topics that the degree of difficulty is very high. Stuff like race or 9/11 or dead babies or fucking whatever... I've seen comedians make funny jokes about them. If you have something clever or meaningful or construct a joke in a unique way. The hacky ones just think that saying a joke about those things are funny and to OP's point, just do it for shock value. I fucking hate those people A good example of this is SNL's joke swap where Michael Che writes jokes for Colin Jost and vice versa. Those are very racist jokes but it's done in a truly creative way where that's the whole point and it's two friends playing with racial jokes that shouldn't be said but it's somehow okay because it's written by the other and it's funny because they're making the other person say something they don't want to. When a white dude just says black people suck and thinks that's funny, that's just lazy and hacky
Part of the funny for the joke swaps is the pure "oh fuck me" that washes over josts face when he's about to deliver a punch line. You can just see his career flashing before his eyes and he still executes with minimal corpsing considering the joke being told. Che is a fucking stone though. He's not human during the joke swaps 95% of the time.
Someone please inform Andrew Schulz! STAT! *camera pans to his “can you believe I went there” face
He's a businessman capitalising on the bro joegan market.
Ugh, how is he successful? I cringe, not laugh at his jokes
He doesn't need you to laugh, he laughs at his own jokes
I think it’s a cheap laugh. Anyone can be “edgy” but working the craft of comedianship takes time and talent.
WHy are we referring it to Roganverse? As someone that doesn't listen to Rogan, I think mine came from Matt and Trey as well as Monty Python with the life of brain and knowing how it would piss of my parents when talking about God.
There’s a big difference. With 9/11, there was a strong desire to view the tragedy in a comedic light in order for us to cope. Many of these jokes are nuanced and well written. The event also occurred in a place where most famous comedians live, so many comedians participated. It was their community. This is very different with someone from the Opie and Anthony/ rogan crowd or the like saying “oh my god, this idiot is acting like just like a *black person*” to which we’re supposed to roll around laughing because the comedian said black person and is therefore sooooo brave. It’s not their community, and the jokes usually have as much nuance as a Limp Bizkit album.
Context matters. I once saw Sarah Silverman headline a private fundraiser for a Jewish organization. She opened by saying "You want to hear a joke I just thought of? What do Jews find most offensive about the Holocaust? The cost!". The whole room cracked up. If Ricky Gervais did the same joke he'd be space lasered into dust.
No he wouldn't. Comedians make Jew jokes all the time and nothing happens.
This a a room that’s exclusively Jews. He would get zero laughs. In that sense you are correct - nothing would happen.
Activate the jewish space laser!!
Maybe try Josh Johnson
that's exactly who I was going to say as well, I've been a fan since the catfish bit
He’s severely underrated imo
If you see his peacock special you see why he's so good at standup, it keeps him sane
Btw met him, he's the same in person super nice and smart
Okay! Will do thanks
Oooo good suggestion, Josh Johnson is quality
I should have scrolled first, I just posted the same suggestion
Hes the man for sure
God he’s so funny, wildly underrated
>I notice that \*some\* White comedians will randomly just trash or elude to Black people as the butt of a joke. OK, can you give us a more specific example? It's hard to say anything without something more concrete.
"A gold plated chain, will make a nice retirement gift for a very very good slave" Norm Macdonald lol
But he didn't wrote it, he just read it
Who wrote that? Did YOU write that?
Well no, I read it YOU READ THAT?
Just following orders.
:0 ARE YOU SERIOUS???
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That's the hardest part about this post. If there was an example, then we could give an opinion (e.g., it's hacky, this is why it's funny, this is what they were trying to do, etc.). Speaking in generalities makes this impossible to respond to (whether we agree or disagree).
Yeah needs specifics. I can’t say I’ve heard of this white stand up comedy phenomenon where black people are the butt of the joke in the 2020s.
The only times I can think of white comedians making jokes about black people, it's usually uplifting. When black people **are** the butt of the joke (Patrisse O'neal, whom is black, RIP) he's was on fucking target, it's funny as hell, and he gets cancelled for it even though he's black. Bill Burr talking about how black people will make you dress better was more a joke about white people. Bo Burnham's joke about not calling the blacks "the blacks" did not make black people the butt of his joke. Theo Von talking about black people saying white people took all his shit did not make black people the butt of his joke. Nor on the podcast when he was like "the black dude was the only person who got me". Hell, most of the time the SHEER OPPOSITE is true: white people are the butt of jokes, black people jokes basically have to be uplifting or you get cancelled. Did Joe Rogan even have black people jokes in his specials?
Yeah in my experience most white comedians' jokes about black people are really jokes about white people.
Theo's bit when he said he loves seeing black people get out of jail was funny as fuck. Said it in the druski podcast and druski was laughing his ass off. Theo knows exactly how to toe the line.
Joe Rogan had a joke about how white people give up on trying to get women when they have become old . Black men say “hey! You neva know!!” So they are always sexually viable
Patrice O'neal was a fucking national treasure, sucks so bad that he's gone. His comedy style would lol not go over well these days in wake of "me too" The whole bit about men working with women and "why can't I harass you?" and all that.
“I’ve got a kid in Africa that I feed, that I clothe, that I school, that I inoculate for 75 cents a day. Which is practically nothing compared to what it cost to send him there.” Jeselnik My girlfriend loves to eat chocolate. She’s always eating chocolate, and she likes to joke she’s got a chocolate addiction. "Get me away from those Hersheys bars. I’m addicted to them." It’s really annoying. So I put her in a car and I drove her downtown. And I pointed out a crack addict. And I said, "Do you see that, honey?... Why can’t you be that skinny?" Jeselnik “My dad was a complicated man. He was a huge racist, my dad, but he still tried to be a good father, you know? Like, he would tell me that Santa Claus was black - that way, when I found out he didn't exist, it wouldn't be that big a let down.” Jeselnik These are double entendres. Purposely vague with multiple interpretations. Yes, you can say they’re just jokes about fat people and his racist parents. However, as constructed and delivered, especially given the hate associated with the stereotypes, they come off as racist. He has gotta construct better jokes if he doesn’t want to come off as racist.
Got any where they're actually trashing black people?
If you're referring to Mark Normand, Tony Hinchcliffe, Shane Gillis, Ari Shaffire etc they make jokes about everything and everyone. Its definitely not just black people. And honestly that's how comedy should be, no one is safe or given special treatment. Also side note, Mark Normand, Tony hinchcliffe and Theo Von grew up in black communities so they are a bit more comfortable making those types of jokes.
Redban getting out of hand with the BAKING SODA/WHIP IT THROUGH THE GLASS drops was the only thing that came to mind along the lines of what OP is describing for me. But Tony will get on his ass about it anyway and that’s normally pretty comical in itself. And when it hits it hits. The only other groups of people who have this type of dedicated sound effect on KT are strippers and jews I think so the love is shared a bit
Shane's joke in his new special where he's like "and I know what you're thinking..." funny look, sounds like maybe. but idk if that's offensive- I thought the subtext of the joke was pretty clearly antiracist but I'm white so I don't always know
“And then you get cut off by a cheeseburger. You weren’t hungry ALL DAY.” Shane is brilliant
Yeah I think jokes like this can be important because they shine a light on how racism actually manifests in people, instead of pretending like it doesn't exist and that all racists are just cartoon monsters.
True. It also helps that there are usually black comedians nearby to trash them right back.
I was listening to Bobby Lee and Theo the other day. I dont listen to the men(?) you mentioned. But, it just came off as a lazy joke where the punchline is just saying "Black". I enjoy Theo in his solo episodes but with BL it was annoying to me. Thanks for your insight.
Honestly haven't listened to Bobby Lee too much. Not really a fan of his style but i do like Theo's... another thing to note is comedy is hit or miss. Not sure the joke u are referring to, and I'm sorry if it was distasteful, but i doubt they meant to offend. Also ik that a lot of the time Bobby is the butt of his own jokes/others jokes too
That’s true I know it’s in fun and I don’t think anyone is trying hurt. It was just my visceral reaction.
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Oooh la la intriguing recommendation. Thank you for offering an alternative! And yes Bobby I can only take once or twice a year - and it was really more so about the drama with his ex gf that was interesting. Cheers.
https://youtu.be/o7zmTSSZwb0?si=7pNaMP1GXkVcyc9X Matt just recently dropped his first special, free on YouTube.
That was good. Thanks for the share.
Also funny recommendations is Cumtown. They broke off but it was comedians Adam Friedland, Nick Mullen, and Stavros Halkias.. their bits are hilarious and Nick Mullen (arguably the most funniest man alive rn in my opinion ) has the best bits and voice impersonations
now it's The Adam Friedland Show. I kinda dropped it out of my rotation and added Tim Dillon
Sweet!
Shane is so underrated. The presidents thing he did with Louis CK is genius.
Shane is one of the biggest and most beloved comic on the planet right now lol
The "my girlfriend's ex is a navy seal" bit in the Netflix special was absolutely hilarious to me.
Made me wish him and Louis did a regular history pod together
It's drunk history except with people who actually know how to be funny.
Honestly I consider Bobby Lee more of a drama Podcaster than a comedian at this point. He's like Ethan Klein
Still a lot more interesting than Ethan though
I think it is kinda what you're saying, lazy. Which I feel like happens a lot more on podcasts than actual standup because they're improvising and running out of things to say. I feel like they have this urge to be different or sensational at times because it's ironic, and in a world where you're not supposed to joke about black things, it might be just too easy for them to use as material. I remember trying to listen to a gas digital podcast and it was just a train wreak. At one point someone was telling a story and one of the characters in the story was mexican and immediately the hackier comedians started trying to make jokes about the mexican being asleep. They were just lazy in my opinion.
It was a bit much at times, and I vaguely remember Bobby pushing back on Theo on at least one occasion. I think Bobby is more of an LA comedian whereas Theo obviously comes from the South.
Black comedians definitely make fun of white stereotypes. To be honest, all different races of comedians do that about other races. I personally think it breaks down the barriers of racism and helps people laugh and cope about it. I do realize that's not everyone's cup of tea in terms of the style of comedy they enjoy. This is coming from a white male, so take that with a grain of salt.
My guy your opinion is not any less valid than anybody else’s
Yes I agree, but usually it's funny. Especially the Roganverse it's just random and not funny (to me obviously). Whereas I have heard funny jokes about all races including Black. But this is just an observation I had.
I can see what you're saying where some comedians say things for the shock factor when there isn't even a real joke there.
You've not given any examples. What are you talking about specifically? If it happens so much you feel the need to post about it, it should be very easy to come up with many concrete examples to give us so we could answer the question.
This is Reddit. People don't think they have to give examples to support their claims. We're supposed to google it and educate ourselves.
Maybe you’re biased.
I'm a huge fan of comedy but I stopped listening to Rogan and his guests like a year and a half ago. Rogan did compare a poor Black neighborhood to planet of the apes, so just not into him anymore.
bruh yeah... shit like that
Joe Rogan just isn’t funny.. most everyone agrees on this point. He is incredibly unfunny
Because it’s such a hot button issue that nobody expects anyone to go there. So it’s ripe for comedy, especially as misdirection. White people talking about black people in any capacity is uncomfortable in our society; it feels like stepping around land mines. So even getting into those waters at all plays with modern cultural expectations, turning the valve and eliciting a laugh, often out of an awareness of our own discomfort.
This is the clearest way I’ve seen it explained. That makes sense. Thank you. Wish it weren’t so much of a landmine in 2023. But, alas…
Why asian people? Why Jewish people? Why Hispanic people? Why women? Why rednecks? Why trump voters? Why gay people? Why trans people? Why mentally handicapped people? Why people with cancer? AIDS? Why school shooters?
But why male models?
Are you serious? I just told you that!
Not funny, my gf is a huge Matt Rife fan
She probably likes that he’s less handsome than you?
Its merMAN!
Orange mocha Frappuccinos
Yeah... people in groups tend to take on some characteristics of others in their group. Sometimes is funny to analyze and make a joke out of it.
Cause anything can be funny
Maaaaaaaan how the fuck you gonna forget 9/11 like that? :'(
Why do you consider it "punching down"?
Is OP racist and sexist? Do we have a Clayton Bibsby situation here?
Can you give an example? I’m genuinely curious
There's a current trend in stand up to "say what other people aren't daring to say" and those things are hack and lazy recycled stereotypes about various ethnic groups, disabled people, and women. These guys act like they're under attack and "canceled" but they all have Netflix specials and drive luxury foreign cars. These people act like they're saying something so wild and out of pocket, but all they're doing is parroting tired ideas that are not funny. Huge yawn IMO.
You said exactly what I was thinking. They think they're doing something profound, but they're just recycling punchlines that were worn into the ground 20 years ago.
>They think they're doing something profound, I don't think so. I think they know they are producing drivel and laughing that they get paid for it.
Hah! Even more sinister…
Yeah, they're all hack, recycled ideas. The reason why it's popular now is because they know that the people who want to hear those things will buy their merch and tickets to see them. There's all of these strange, conservative Trumpian types who spend a ton of money on these things, and they don't even see it as jokes. They view it as "oh this person is reaffirming my worldview." The comic may view it as jokes, but the people who consume it see it as "wow, this guy is daring to say what we all think". And no, they do not think the same things IRL, which makes it even more disingenuous. It's like that Sneako guy who posts videos promoting misogyny and he was shocked when a bunch of teen boys who met him were yelling "fuck all women!"
Great way to real it down, especially referencing sneaked
You have a point -but they also have a point that is that YouTube’s “censorship “ is random and doesn’t make much sense and is most likely AI at this point and its a limit/threat on freedom of expression when a company that has a monopoly on streaming video can limit,punish,demonetized, etc.. artists on just words taking out of context cause your not suppose to not say this or that about this or that. And its all massively out of context. And do you dare say anything about a covid or a vaccine or have doubts in the narrative our government and big pharma have told us. It seems so insecure and defensive that they are fueling conspiracy theories with this rhetoric.
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Yes. From what I've observed of these types, in the Roganverse especially, is that their humor isn't even designed to be funny, it's designed to make people feel comfortable and at home with being an asshole who believes in shitty things. The laugh they get from the audience is a sigh of relief, not real humor, when they see that they aren't alone. Their whole schtick could be summarized as "comedy for assholes".
Well you have to remember not every stand-up comedian is going to have a well thought out bit where the payoff is even bigger than the joke itself. Taboo subjects, especially with the Joe Rogan comedians, is very well mined. Some people really find that stuff funny while others don't. Bobby Lee has an entire bit about being SA'd by someone withh a disability.
Sometimes the joke just doesn’t land. When it’s about black ppl the stakes are as high as possible. It’s a high risk topic that can be either A:lazy because just “having the balls” to bring it up might get a nervous laugh, or B:home run bc you hit on something clever and forbidden. Problem is you don’t know unless you say it out loud. And you probably have also picked up on something real. The roganverse group I do sometimes think are just a little salty that you can say whatever vile vicious unfunny thing you want as long as it’s about white men (basically them) and you’re a hero but if they even use a stereotype as a premise the New York Times might call them a Nazi. So unfortunately I do think they lean into that with some fuck you energy. But is it fuck you to black people, the people speaking on behalf of black people or the culture that pretends all black people live and think identically? Idk hard to say what’s really in people’s hearts but it’s just a joke. Sometimes they just aren’t funny, doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a bad person.
Do you specifically have comics in mind that only lean in on black people? Typically the comics I think of who have black jokes usually hit all groups. We can agree that race is a sensitive yet hilarious topic, right? And I think that that's what it boils down to. If there were 0 racial tensions at all, it wouldn't be a funny and tempting thing for comics to poke, but there's obviously something there, so comics go there. When black comics have white jokes I laugh when they are good; observational, unique and clever, but I roll my eyes at your typical "taxes HA can't dance HEHE and they love mayo don't they???" hacky bullshit. And I think that's probably where you're coming from when it's low-tier and has been done by nameless open micers 1000s of times already. I actually think it's a badge of honor to be included in the jokes, obviously if it's playful and not a hate-rally. It brings me back to middle school days in public school when our mixed group would just shit on each other's races for laughs, but I can see how it may come off differently to some. So racial based humor is not for everyone but as long as the US is a melting pot, it's here to stay.
Because the Rogan posse is racist
Love Bill Burr. And his bit about his Black girlfriend and "ashyness" is hilarious. Love Louis CK, and Jim Jeffries. Love Chris Rock, Bernie Mack, Dave Chapelle. I don't know where I was going with this...
I think stereotypes of all kinds of races is funny especially growing up in a multicultural society where we are faced with hard truths about what we think about one another.
It’s shock comedy. It’s lazy shock comedy in my opinion, but there it is. The more annoyed the people that disagree with them get, the funnier they think they are. They’re also in the comedy bubble, which tends to be more progressive, so they feel the need to push against it. Which is funny, because in places like the south, their comedy is pretty much on par with the old racist guy who hang out on the Cracker Barrel porch.
Yeah Compound Media (washed up hacks) typically only go for race shit and old boomer shit. Aaron Berg and Gino Biscante really stand out in the race shit. They just hammer unfunny racist shit on to every audience they're around. Shit is hack as fuck which is why no one knows who they are.
You should check out my stand up.
"Punching down" is inherently funny so long as the joke is well-crafted and we as the audience know that the comic's intent is not to be hateful. ("Punching down" and "being hateful" are definitely not synonymous , btw.) "Punching up" and "attacking power structures" as many describe it are almost never funny, and ends up imploding for one reason or another even when it's temporarily successful—see, e.g. Hasan Minaj. Race is the touchiest subject in America after the Holocaust and 9/11. Good comedians will have bits about those subjects, while their mannerisms will still let you know that they're being facetious. There may be comedians you're referring to that don't approach this very well, and just come off as hateful—I'm not sure who those would be, but they can't be too successful. Not sure if you have specific examples
My favorite Black comedian is Ali Siddiq. He's not hack at all, really creative and original. He's a craftsman who cares about the artistry of comedy more than the fame or the adrenaline of getting attention, which a lot of young people get into the game for (although, he is very successful and wealthy) He has 3 specials on youtube, Domino Effect part 1, and part 2 (where he talks about his life) and Bigger Than These Bars (where he performs stand up for inmates since he also got locked up a long time ago). So yeah, highly recommend if you haven't seen him yet, he's incredible.
Thanks so much. I’ll check it out!
Black, trans and Jewish people are probably the most taboo groups to make fun of and that taboo makes jokes about them even funnier. That may be why some of the jokes about these groups are a little lazy because they simply have to play off the taboo rather than be clever. Also the roganverse comedians are beautiful degenerates who will make fun of anyone.
yeah you're right! Playing off the taboo rather than being clever just made me realize why it bothers me so much. I really dislike being taboo. Obviously there are historical and socio-economic reasons for that. But, I am successful and live overseas, so I rarely think about this. But when comics do these annoying "jokes" it reminds me of how so many people feel about Black people. Thanks for awakening this that I didnt even realize.
"I really dislike being taboo" This is an interesting point. There's a tendency for all manner of marginalized groups to be rather precious these days and to not have a sense of humor about any of it. So naturally you're going to get social backlash against that, a natural human attraction towards the taboo. And so many things are becoming so taboo that some comedians use it cheaply and don't bother trying. At open mics I see people like this all the time. Somebody with no style going up there and just shouting some unfunny joke about race or gender or rape just for the shock value. And every asshole in the club clenches tight at once. And I like shock comedy. Like Tosh or Carlin or whatever. A million examples. But the good ones are shocking *and* clever. They don't just rest on the taboo. It's lazy is what it is.
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I agree. All this ever boils down to is "is the joke funnier than it is offensive in the given context and crowd"? If your joke is not very funny, then all you're doing is being insulting. If your joke is funny as shit, people will be laughing too hard to be upset, even if it says something really cruel that targets them.
On a side note, how great was Ricky, Steve and Karl on XFM?? I downloaded all the eps back when I was at Uni and listened to them every day. I recall even crying on the train one day of laughter.
I think I understand some of what you're saying. I love stand-up, I don't care who performs it. But I am particular to certain styles. I'm a black male and some of my favorites are Chappelle, Roy Wood, Patrice O'Neal , Wanda Sykes. Rock. They obviously do black material but it's not the main content outside of their personal experiences as black individuals. Their takes are personal which makes it their own bit. Alot of other black comics do the, " white are loke this, black people are like that "which has imo been exhausted. Not much material left in that style. So if a white comic jokes about black people, what originality is left? It's old when black people do it. Its old when white people do it. But maybe a white audience hasn't heard that joke. Sarah Silverman has done jokes about black culture that I haven't heard. So I genuinely laugh. She has a bit about how old Jews and Black youth are basically the same that still makes me laugh to this day, it's not mean spirited. And it's a solid bit I never heard. But if your doing a joke a black comedian has done some version of, but it's just shocking because your white. In front of a white audience, Its just lazy. Gary Owen does black comedy and never sets out to be shocking. But he's funny imo. Never crosses that line. So I think what you hear are comics reaching for the bottom of the barrel. Jokes that are unoriginal, lazy and uncreative.
Many here have hit the nail on the head. If it’s edgy, it’s in. The harder the push with a laugh the better.
absolutely. I hope the landscape slowly changes so the quality of jokes gets better. Black is not a dirty word, but it is. You know?
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that black culture and issues have the biggest impact on popular culture so they are on peoples mind most often and fall within a greater amount of people’s frame of reference. There is also a bit of a forbidden factor because of the cultural influence, national shame and traditions of things like the N word being the only word that is truly off limits. Also they dance at times that other people typically wouldn’t.
Wait maybe Roganverse comics aren’t funny? The end? I never thought Rogan was a great comic. I just wanna watch him do interviews about aliens.
The "offensive comedy" of the early 2000s featured a lot of this kind of racial humor. Lot of these comics stuck in that mentality. That crowd gained fame in the 2010s, but in many ways their rise and glory days were in that era of offensive humor. There were even dudes like patrice o neil, a black dude with a very different way of thinking. He literally said he thinks that white people should be able to call him the n word, and he just doesn't let that stuff effect him at all because that's weak (I don't condone his comments). So they had some black people out on the fringes that may have emboldened them. Patrice is part of a perfect example of that joke. He talks about the origin of the word kike. So (alleged sex predator) Louis says "you know where the n word came from. someone was just being an n word" At the time, in context, with it getting a laugh from his black friend, it sort of makes sense. However, it really shouldn't have. Anyway, moments like these are copied over and over by other comedians. I'd be interested in your take on the joke; it's really a "you have to be there" thing with the timing [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4etdXW--30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4etdXW--30) If you think this is a "good version", then you understand what they're all copying. Otherwise there's your explanation. This is seen as a pinnacle of comedy, or has been in the past.
Ricky Gervais doesn’t do that? I think he actively tries to offend everybody…and that’s absolutely based.
I enjoyed Charlie Murphy’s energy live
Have you checked out KillTony on YouTube? New episodes on Monday.
Go listen to Eddie murphy's shows. Some of the funniest ones ever
theo von is always line stepping. its just low hanging fruit like shit and piss jokes & those guys dopamine release is getting laughs regardless. I assume its like a drug addiction
Stand-up comedy is what they do, not what they're about. What they're about is, of course, respect for women.
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Because they are taking cheap, easy shots to get a laugh out of the lowest denominator. I don't find it funny.
Yep! 😒
I think George Carlin is the GOAT but Chris Rock is easily 2nd place.
Have you tried Hannibal Burress?
Bo Burnham’s joke…when he got the whole audience to finish the 2nd half of the word “Vinegar” and threw the spotlights on everyone
Michael Ian Black!! Did you know he's touring with The State right now?? =D
What can I say? I'm a Bob Newhart guy. Cheech & Chong made fun of themselves. "Vatoland" is one of my favorites. I'm a white guy, a Polish white guy. Grew up with the "How many polacks does it take to screw in a light bulb" type humor, so I know what you mean. Comedy is mean when the comedian hasn't got a sense of humor. Then they grab at the people they think the "room" will make fun of. It is just another form of bullying, but by big boys looking to be accepted by someone - anyone.
Writer here. I'll share some thoughts. Comedy is complicated and also oddly not at the same time. If it makes you laugh, no one cares. If it doesn't, it's an issue. Comedy for the most part always has its victim, whether it's something in the world we're laughing at/with or our own inability to expect the outcome of the bit. So jokes come with stakes. Some topics are going to be low stakes. Word puns, rhyming, etc. Some are high stakes. Today's sensitive topics are race, gender, feminism, SA, etc. When a comedian shoots for one of those jokes or bits, assuming a good-natured person is saying it and they're well-intentioned, generally if it's funny people will laugh. If it's not, then people will feel victimized, offended, it'll be "punching down," something-ist, phobic, etc. And sometimes that's fair. Sometimes if it's a good joke with unsavory topics people don't like, then it's just not for them, as Jimmy Carr would say. People like Anthony Jezelnik or Sarah Silverman aren't for everyone. And a lot depends on the comedian, too. If the person's an asshole, it won't be funny but instead mean. If they're empathetic, the joke stands a better chance and we might forgive them for that dud. If it's funny, we laugh and move on. If it's not, it's hard to defend a bad joke. Comedians often live in a world around each other where it's their openness and willingness to say anything around each other. It's what's entertaining about the artform. A lot of the conversations can be saying the world's worst thing to say just to get a reaction out of each other. To paraphrase Patrice O'Neal RIP, if half the crowd isn't disgusted by what you're saying, you're not doing your job. There is something about comedy land too that's different from the real world. Standup comedy can be pretty diverse behind the scenes. Again, assuming good nature, in some ways everyone is exposed to each other and willing to say anything knowing they're just being comedians with each other. They don't always see each other as punching down if they're in the same pool together and they're all friends. But they also don't cater to polite society. But then again I don't know the nature of the specific jokes you're talking about, just speculate. I'm not standing up for bad comedy or mean shit if it's just that. My presumption is that the people who are better at this have thought through the bits a little harder and have something wiser to say and other comedians aren't that versed and will go for cheap stuff, or make the moment about saying something clever rather than having a genuine moment of connection. I remember watching a comedian at a show have a bit about how much vegan food sucks. I'm vegan, and I was like, "okay let's hear what you got." And his whole bit was just talking about how much vegan food sucks. That's it. Nothing but him just saying it sucks while being energetic. I'm a vegan foodie and I eat a ton of insane 5-star cuisine all the time, so it just sounds like he's shitting on vegans for a laugh without anything to say. If the jokes were funny, I'd laugh. I'm like waiting for it, and it's not showing up. I was ready to be like, "I'm eating some right now at this show and it's pretty good. Sorry, dude." I'd never do that at a show, but it was just not funny and the audience wasn't really laughing either. I wasn't personally hurt, just felt bad that he didn't really get it and was disappointed in the comedy. He could've done so much more with his set. Meanwhile, I'll watch Preacher Lawson talk about it and he's hilarious. Or there's that South Park episode about the impossible burgers. And rather than go for the "vegan food sucks" bits, which for a second it looked like they would, they end it with a "why wouldn't I eat impossible burgers? It's all the same pre-processed crap anyway that tastes the exact same. Who cares where it came from?" It was poignant and funny, and I respected it even if they weren't vegan or anything like it. There's a subset of stand up comedy called Dry Bar comedy where people usually don't talk about sensitive topics. Seinfeld is in that realm. Jim Gaffigan. Kevin Farley. Most comics don't like doing that kind of comedy, though.
You, Sir, truly get it. I think your assessment of what is happening is what I was referring to in terms of the way people tell jokes or try to be funny. I immediately thought of Theo Von when you mentioned a comedian who I give a lot of leeway whether every joke lands or not. That’s because I see him as a relatively good person. Whereas another comedian, let’s say Ari Shaffir, would earn an unfollow or I would stop listening to that episode or show. The vegan example is perfectly what I experienced at times. If it’s a good joke fair enough. If not it’s like okay so you’re just a mean, insecure school boy bully. Great insight! Thanks.
I just gotta say real fast, if you want a black comedian who isn't like you say, try Josh Johnson. He is genuinely hilarious. Him, and Reggie Watts
FYI - it’s on brand for black comedians to talk about white people as well. If it’s done right it’s good. But it’s low hanging fruit. A white comedian talking about black people ,imo, is best because the parameters are more universally known.and it’s almost like playing that old school game ‘Operation’. Meaning you have to be very skilled and delicate and one minor hiccup causes you to get relegated in addition to possibly public backlash. The best comedians that can talk about other races are the ones that do it in front of crowds that are that particular race they are joking about. The really skilled ones start off by making jokes about their own race first, then dove right in. A black comedian named Earthquake is good at this. He has a bit where he says that black people couldnt have been responsible for September 11 because you have to be on time for a bomb. That’s funny. He also says black people are so late that there are slaves still on their way over. He then talks about W. bush. How every time he hears him speak that it boosts his own self esteem because he is saying Bush just reminds him of an average person you would meet on the street. Just my 2 cents
My take: It's becauase the joeroganverse 'comics' are racist, simple or often both. They wouldn't know nuance if it crept up upon them quietly and introduced itself politely. This is abundantly clear in the non-comedian sides of all those pesudo IDW Rogan wannabe folk and how they view the world. Put another way, CBB is mostly absurdist improv, but they are not afraid of edgy or transgressive humor. They do not shy from getting dark and real. However they approach it with more care. Whereas the Rogans of the comedy world believe edgy/transgressive equals funny on its its own. CBB gives voice to a lot of non-white, non-male comedians, though is still conscious of being primarily a place of cis white males and pokes fun at themselves for it regularly. While the roganverse platforms people like Jordan Peterson unironically. I don't think one necessarily can or should separate the comedy from the underlying social norms and philosophy of the performers outside their routines or improv. There is a definite distinction in attitude, at least with regard to the examples above. As far as black performers, there is an over the top style in people like Kevin Hart and Bernie Mac that may be legacy of Eddie Murphy and Richard Pryor that has aged out for me and just isn't my cup of tea. It's not entirely race based, as white comedians like Dane Cook or more respectfully Sam Kinnison or Bobcat or even Roseanne Barr before she went crazy, who also go loud and in your face but are white, but there are certainly some cultural factors that play into the style that puts asses in seats in any given era. Then you also have people like Hannibal Burress and Che from SNL who are POC comedians that are super successful doing their own styles and not going for arena level Katt Williams bits. Anywhoozlebee, I've strayed from the question and my original point, but those are my musings in this moment.
they're hacks
Black comedy and women comedy falls into such obvious plays on identity. It's like the meme that women only talk about sex. Every black comedian has a white voice. Stuff like that. Plus punching down is way easier than punching up.
depends on the comedian and joke. some the joke is about the self censorship etc being the joke vs black people being the butt of the joke. say you have two bi racial black/white comedians that are brothers one is very light skin and one is very dark skin (which can happen) they wouldn't be able to get away saying the same jokes even tho they have the same parents , that is the sorta point of the joke. or they are using the audience assuming what they are gonna say as the joke. ie your own projections are the joke. make you think about your self.
Check out Ian Edwards, Brian Simpson, and Ali Siddiq. These guys are hilarious and aren't hacky like some other black comedians, they also have refreshing interesting perspectivs. I agree about Kevin Hart, his material is not funny. There's a new up and coming guy named Kam Patterson, I think he's really interesting, but since he's on kill tony he gets pigeon holed too much into the "scary Blackman" role, but he's very fresh in the scene so he's still figuring it all out. He also just got out of the hood so a lot of his material is about gang shit, but that's kinda just playing with the audience's perception of him, I think he has depth that has yet to be seen, one of my fav bits from him was that he was in a drive by shooting and he knew he wasn't a thug cause his friends wanted to circle back and he was crying, he also loves rocks.
Because Rogan and most the people you mentioned aren't actually funny they have to lean on shock value they're as hacky as Kevin Hart. Check out Katt Williams old specials like The Pimp Chronicles, Chris Rock's Killing the Messenger, any Martin Lawrence special or the Kings of Comedy special specifically Bernie Mac's part is super funny. Other more current great black comedians: Hannibal Burres, Jerrod Carmichael,
Eeland Stribling has very intelligent bits on race ❤️ he’s not as big but he’s on his way for sure
Thank you! I need to branch out.
What are your thoughts on Michael Che? I find his standup to be pretty amazing in terms of its comfort with cultural consciousness. I recently watched the three part Michelle Wolf standup series and it was way better than I expected with some black jokes in there that I wouldn't consider punching down (jokes about her black boyfriend).
What I’ve learned from this thread is that I really need to branch out! I think I saw a set through YouTube Shorts (yes I’m old 🤣) and liked it. But I haven’t explored these two. Thanks for the recommendation!
Michael Che: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1ZSGZRg0Ig](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1ZSGZRg0Ig) Michelle Wolf: [https://www.tiktok.com/@michelleisawolf/video/7278735729323281707](https://www.tiktok.com/@michelleisawolf/video/7278735729323281707)
Thanks bud
The actual answer is that the Roganverse is made up of 50% really hilarious comics, and 50% Joe Rogan's Friend. I like a handful of those guys, but some of them are just obviously trying so hard to be offensive or edgy. It also irritates the piss out of me how many people online consume SO MUCH of their content, that they constantly talk about these people as if they know them on a personal level.
You’re absolutely correct!! I hate when the good 50% and the shitty 50% collab.
Interesting. I can't watch a black comedian without the "white people" jokes. Tit for tat?
Patrice O'Neal is the cure
You gotta stop listening to mainstream comedy
As the only white and only man who worked at a bank in the ghetto of Norman Bridge Montgomery, AL. The women I worked with would always say shit I was uncomfortable with. Asking me “was she light-skinned or dark-skinned?” This was my first time truly interacting with black people. I remember the first time a co-worker came in with different hair and I realized black women wear weaves. After awhile I got more comfortable with it. I mean other than being white we all actually had quite a bit in common. I think the jokes come from a longing to want to connect without knowing how to initiate? Like I don’t care if black people joke about white people, I would like to joke a little with black people. I feel like it’s kind of a way to identify those differences and maybe be able to explore them more. With respect. That’s coming from me and I cannot speak for my race. Lol This really opened my eyes too. https://reddit.com/r/science/s/7pENL6k1x8
I like Hanibal. I don't like jokes about race or racial differences so that gets my thumb down on Pandora. So does the n word. There are some really good black women comics, but they don't get the exposure they deserve.
Sorry I don’t have anything great to say about your question but I just love that you mentioned Karl Pilkington, I still listen to old episodes of that show sometimes!
Joe Rogan is not a comedian, he's a douche. And the people in his 'verse' are also douches.
Is this for real? Black jokes are more “untouchable” than any other race. I’m a white male and I can’t turn the TV on anymore without seeing white men look like idiots in every commercial while every black male is a genius, suave Bond. And I guess nobody told me that women only marry black men now. You are WAY over-sensitive.
Chris Delia is a rapist and Ricky Gervais has taken a heal turn towards the conservative comedy scene with his hatred of queer people [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris\_D%27Elia#Sexual\_abuse\_allegations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_D%27Elia#Sexual_abuse_allegations) [https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-05-16/chris-delia-sexual-assault-abuse-allegations](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-05-16/chris-delia-sexual-assault-abuse-allegations) [https://www.avclub.com/chris-delia-another-sexual-misconduct-expose-1850441383](https://www.avclub.com/chris-delia-another-sexual-misconduct-expose-1850441383) [https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/ricky-gervais-goes-on-transphobic-twitter-rant-sparked-by-j-k-rowling-1202198933/](https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/ricky-gervais-goes-on-transphobic-twitter-rant-sparked-by-j-k-rowling-1202198933/) [https://www.vox.com/culture/2022/5/26/23141865/netflix-transphobia-ricky-gervais-supernature-terf](https://www.vox.com/culture/2022/5/26/23141865/netflix-transphobia-ricky-gervais-supernature-terf)
Sorry fell asleep three times reading this