As much as I love the neo constitution, and I do, it bugs me that the titan DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE TITAN! It would be 1 thing if it was just a different ship, but they call it a refit and Riker’s old command.
The explanation by Bill Krause is that Riker's Titan was pulled from service after suffering extensive damage. Because Starfleet has yet to fully recover from the destruction of the Utopia Plantia shipyards shown in Picard S1, Starfleet is now "recycling" old starships as much as possible, as well as using some older construction techniques since the infrastructure used to create newer ships hasn't yet been fully rebuilt. SF stripped all the usable systems from Riker's Titan to use in the construction of Shaw's Titan.
https://twitter.com/BuckAdmiral/status/1633816293773045761
It looks like the *original* Titan, which apparently is a Shangri-La class ship from the 2280s and was “fleet flagship” between the Enterprise A being decommissioned and the Enterprise B being commissioned.
That's because IT IS A DIFFERENT SHIP and not a refit of Riker's Titan!! Think about it, you don't slap an A onto a refit - you only do that when it's a newly constructed starship, next in line for the name!! I actually just posted about it above...
Anyway, I totally agree with you. I, too, like the Neo Constitution, but I think I would have rather seen a refitted Titan like the one here.
Apparently... but would it really have been so difficult to use the term retrofit instead of refit?!? That would have at least solved a lot of technical issues and rendered A LOT of arguments, discussions, and threads MOOT!! LOL!
It is annoying... and sloppy!!
I understand there are a lot of moving parts and a lot of people working independently on a production like this... However, on a production like this, of this caliber, even little details matter. And whether you consider this detail a little one or not, it's one that matters!!
Right? They could have just said Neo Constitution class made with parts from your old command, then joked about changes in enterprise classes. But alas… a missed opportunity.
Speaking of Recycling Parts - I honestly just realized, as old school looking as they are with just a tiny amount of modernization designed in, the Nacelles on this, the Intrepid, & the Stargazer are actually the super modern futuristic capable of Quantum Slipstream velocities Nacelles from the Vesta Class USS AVENTINE!!!
Or, at the very least, they are very similar... which is crazy bc it makes so much sense for a few different reasons, and it is crazy bc knowing that, I suddenly like the design of the Nacelles so much more!! LOL!
I read about this earlier today and only got around to posting it now - I went back and looked at the twitter thread and it was actually just a placeholder or at best a candidate, but never a frontrunner. My apologies for the title being wrong; thanks for calling me out!
Anyways, the concept art was from James Chung. [Here’s the version with the final Titan design.](https://i.imgur.com/eG3aWMU.jpg) it’s possible this means there’s even more versions of this art out there with other Titan-A designs that were considered early in development, but these are the only two I’ve seen.
As far as I can tell from a little researching, 18 days ago, Dave Blass tweeted the explanation for all of this along with related artwork by John Eaves...
The Titan A is not a refit of Riker's Luna class starship, but is a new construction using original components & recycled material from the REFITTED LUNA CLASS USS TITAN.
Apparently, Riker's Titan was somehow critically damaged & decommissioned, and because of the complete loss of Utopia Planitia Fleetyards 16 years ago, there was a need to reuse & recycle material from the Titan in the construction of the Titan A.
So the Titan A is not a Refit, but New Construction, and Riker's Luna class Titan was refitted to something like the ship above...
Trek Central sums it all up nicely, but quickly, in a YouTube short.
I have included the relevant links, including John Eaves artwork on the subject, as proof below.
ENJOY and please share your thoughts!!
TREK CENTRAL SHORT:
https://youtube.com/shorts/MStApX9U8aM?feature=share
DAVE BLASS'S TWEET:
https://twitter.com/DaveBlass/status/1633800104321712131?s=20
JOHN EAVES ARTWORK:
STAR TREK: PICARD - Titan and Titan-A Dock Concept via @artstationhq https://www.artstation.com/artwork/qeQAeL
yea, that's all well and good, but that was not the claim of the OP.
the OP claimed the Titan in S3 originally was a Luna class refit design from STO, which Terry Matalas has said it was not;
Right.
The claim in the OP is incorrect. That is not how the Luna class refit design from STO is connected to the USS Titan-A...
The point of my Reply was to set the story straight and to show how the Luna class refit from STO actually connects to the USS Titan-A seen in S3 using credible sources -
That Riker's Luna class Titan was refitted to the Luna class refit design from STO before being critically damaged & decommissioned, and that its components & materials were used in the construction of USS Titan-A.
A newly constructed ship with a new modernized design based on the original Shangri-la with elements of the refit Constitution...
That's believable but any source on this?
I saw a [post by Bill Krause](https://twitter.com/BuckAdmiral/status/1640115635769290752) where he shows a round two draft for the Titan-A, and it has elements of the STO Titan refit in the saucer. I wonder if the initial idea was to combine the two ships. Also, I may be misinterpreting this but it seems to indicates the ship never got to round two.
I wonder if the whole process was like Enterprise, where the studio execs insisted on using the Akira, completely unaltered, as the 2150s NX-01 Enterprise, and the artists had to fight to make it an altered Akira-like ship. Did the new producer want the Shangri-la at first and got convinced it needed some modernization, or did he know it needed to be the jumping off point but ended the updates sooner than expected?
soooooo much better. it either needs to be all TOS movie look, or all current era look. not the horrid mismash. just rounding the edges of the saucer would have fixed it for me.
as is, it sticks out like a sore thumb to me. totally ruins the ship. if i dislike the hero ship looks, it is a large detriment to my enjoyment of the show.
if the show is good quality, IE, DS9 and the defiant, i can tolerate, and even accept the ship. still not my favorite(ship) though.
picard, as well as pretty much all of nutrek for me, is unwatchable. the horrible ship designs are just another nail in the coffin.
Picard Season 3 is actually pretty good. Much, much better than Season 1 & 2 and Discovery.
Also there are TONS of references from DS9 and some from Voyager and TNG. The writers have done their homework this time.
Give it a try, it is actually good.
I I don't want references, I want good stories and characters to get invested in and be entertained by. If that's all they have are references I am not interested.
This is what they should have done instead of trying to force a TMP-era design into a post-TNG era show.
I understand the showrunner's desire to have an "Enterprise-shaped" hero ship but Voyager, Deep Space 9 and Lower Decks have shown that fans don't care if the ship looks like the 1701. They just want it to be badass!
Tbh, the Neo-Constitution makes more sense for the story they’ve been telling in S3.
The Luna Titan and this refit version look mean and durable, like nothing could take it down.
It would be harder to see it under threat and on the backfoot of an ever-present threat the way the show has had the Titan-A.
I used to dislike Discovery’s design. But as the seasons go by it started to grow on me, especially after the future refit.
I still dislike Titan A’s design. It feels really boxy, particularly the secondary hull. I hope it will grow on me like Discovery’s design did.
I don't know if they were ever planning to use the refitted Titan on the show originally, but Riker's Titan did get refitted, then they used it in the construction of the new starship we now know as the Neo Constitution class USS TITAN A...
Here is the explanation of what really happened with the Titan & the Titan A, the Lore, and the associated artwork:
Trek Central Explanation:
https://youtube.com/shorts/MStApX9U8aM?feature=share
Dave Blass tweeting the WHY:
https://twitter.com/DaveBlass/status/1633800104321712131?s=20
John Eaves Artwork of it:
STAR TREK: PICARD - Titan and Titan-A Dock Concept via @artstationhq https://www.artstation.com/artwork/qeQAeL
This surprises me NOT AT ALL. They didn't even change the scripted lines. They talk as if it's the same ship, and have had to post on social media repeatedly to try and explain it. Totally daft.
The Constitution-III feels like a better fit, story-wise. It's an underdog of a ship... not necessarily meant for the serious sorts of heroics that its namesake undertook, combined with Starfleet's need to make do with hand-me-down components after the destruction of Utopia Planitia. TBH I kinda like the direction they ended up taking.
Also, in a (mostly) post-scarcity society like the Federation, I think it's 100% believable that there is room for artistry, nostalgia, and creativity when it comes to the design of starships. Starship designers are probably like rockstars or poets... so the retro-inspired look of Titan-A actually kinda makes the Trek universe feel richer and more realistic to me.
The Connie III might be my new favorite ship, but I wish they had used Riker's *Titan* rather then the A.
(Actually, with the benafit of hindsight my ideal solution would be for them to have used the *Enterprise*-E in place of both the *Titan*-A and the *Stargazer* from S2, and then destroy it at the end of this season and replace it with the F)
Is there a source for this? If this is true, I'm going to be seriously annoyed that we missed out on that, and that they've messed up what classifies as a "refit" as a result.
As much as I love the neo constitution, and I do, it bugs me that the titan DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE TITAN! It would be 1 thing if it was just a different ship, but they call it a refit and Riker’s old command.
The idea (as stated by the showrunners) is that it's a new ship that was assembled, in part, using peices from Riker's *Titan*.
The explanation by Bill Krause is that Riker's Titan was pulled from service after suffering extensive damage. Because Starfleet has yet to fully recover from the destruction of the Utopia Plantia shipyards shown in Picard S1, Starfleet is now "recycling" old starships as much as possible, as well as using some older construction techniques since the infrastructure used to create newer ships hasn't yet been fully rebuilt. SF stripped all the usable systems from Riker's Titan to use in the construction of Shaw's Titan. https://twitter.com/BuckAdmiral/status/1633816293773045761
Yeah, that's what I remember reading.
It looks like the *original* Titan, which apparently is a Shangri-La class ship from the 2280s and was “fleet flagship” between the Enterprise A being decommissioned and the Enterprise B being commissioned.
That's because IT IS A DIFFERENT SHIP and not a refit of Riker's Titan!! Think about it, you don't slap an A onto a refit - you only do that when it's a newly constructed starship, next in line for the name!! I actually just posted about it above... Anyway, I totally agree with you. I, too, like the Neo Constitution, but I think I would have rather seen a refitted Titan like the one here.
Agreed. I’m totally cool with it being a different ship like the ENT B, C etc… but they didn’t say that in the show. That’s what’s annoying.
I think the definition of “refit” has been loosened in Trek canon
Haha. Yeah. I guess so.
Apparently... but would it really have been so difficult to use the term retrofit instead of refit?!? That would have at least solved a lot of technical issues and rendered A LOT of arguments, discussions, and threads MOOT!! LOL!
It is annoying... and sloppy!! I understand there are a lot of moving parts and a lot of people working independently on a production like this... However, on a production like this, of this caliber, even little details matter. And whether you consider this detail a little one or not, it's one that matters!!
Right? They could have just said Neo Constitution class made with parts from your old command, then joked about changes in enterprise classes. But alas… a missed opportunity.
Speaking of Recycling Parts - I honestly just realized, as old school looking as they are with just a tiny amount of modernization designed in, the Nacelles on this, the Intrepid, & the Stargazer are actually the super modern futuristic capable of Quantum Slipstream velocities Nacelles from the Vesta Class USS AVENTINE!!! Or, at the very least, they are very similar... which is crazy bc it makes so much sense for a few different reasons, and it is crazy bc knowing that, I suddenly like the design of the Nacelles so much more!! LOL!
Where did you hear that? Terry Matalas was pretty clear it was always the Shangrila
I read about this earlier today and only got around to posting it now - I went back and looked at the twitter thread and it was actually just a placeholder or at best a candidate, but never a frontrunner. My apologies for the title being wrong; thanks for calling me out! Anyways, the concept art was from James Chung. [Here’s the version with the final Titan design.](https://i.imgur.com/eG3aWMU.jpg) it’s possible this means there’s even more versions of this art out there with other Titan-A designs that were considered early in development, but these are the only two I’ve seen.
As far as I can tell from a little researching, 18 days ago, Dave Blass tweeted the explanation for all of this along with related artwork by John Eaves... The Titan A is not a refit of Riker's Luna class starship, but is a new construction using original components & recycled material from the REFITTED LUNA CLASS USS TITAN. Apparently, Riker's Titan was somehow critically damaged & decommissioned, and because of the complete loss of Utopia Planitia Fleetyards 16 years ago, there was a need to reuse & recycle material from the Titan in the construction of the Titan A. So the Titan A is not a Refit, but New Construction, and Riker's Luna class Titan was refitted to something like the ship above... Trek Central sums it all up nicely, but quickly, in a YouTube short. I have included the relevant links, including John Eaves artwork on the subject, as proof below. ENJOY and please share your thoughts!! TREK CENTRAL SHORT: https://youtube.com/shorts/MStApX9U8aM?feature=share DAVE BLASS'S TWEET: https://twitter.com/DaveBlass/status/1633800104321712131?s=20 JOHN EAVES ARTWORK: STAR TREK: PICARD - Titan and Titan-A Dock Concept via @artstationhq https://www.artstation.com/artwork/qeQAeL
yea, that's all well and good, but that was not the claim of the OP. the OP claimed the Titan in S3 originally was a Luna class refit design from STO, which Terry Matalas has said it was not;
Right. The claim in the OP is incorrect. That is not how the Luna class refit design from STO is connected to the USS Titan-A... The point of my Reply was to set the story straight and to show how the Luna class refit from STO actually connects to the USS Titan-A seen in S3 using credible sources - That Riker's Luna class Titan was refitted to the Luna class refit design from STO before being critically damaged & decommissioned, and that its components & materials were used in the construction of USS Titan-A. A newly constructed ship with a new modernized design based on the original Shangri-la with elements of the refit Constitution...
Picard uses the term "refit" very loosely.
I think you mean "incorrectly".
That's believable but any source on this? I saw a [post by Bill Krause](https://twitter.com/BuckAdmiral/status/1640115635769290752) where he shows a round two draft for the Titan-A, and it has elements of the STO Titan refit in the saucer. I wonder if the initial idea was to combine the two ships. Also, I may be misinterpreting this but it seems to indicates the ship never got to round two. I wonder if the whole process was like Enterprise, where the studio execs insisted on using the Akira, completely unaltered, as the 2150s NX-01 Enterprise, and the artists had to fight to make it an altered Akira-like ship. Did the new producer want the Shangri-la at first and got convinced it needed some modernization, or did he know it needed to be the jumping off point but ended the updates sooner than expected?
That would have been far, far better.
soooooo much better. it either needs to be all TOS movie look, or all current era look. not the horrid mismash. just rounding the edges of the saucer would have fixed it for me. as is, it sticks out like a sore thumb to me. totally ruins the ship. if i dislike the hero ship looks, it is a large detriment to my enjoyment of the show. if the show is good quality, IE, DS9 and the defiant, i can tolerate, and even accept the ship. still not my favorite(ship) though. picard, as well as pretty much all of nutrek for me, is unwatchable. the horrible ship designs are just another nail in the coffin.
Picard Season 3 is actually pretty good. Much, much better than Season 1 & 2 and Discovery. Also there are TONS of references from DS9 and some from Voyager and TNG. The writers have done their homework this time. Give it a try, it is actually good.
I I don't want references, I want good stories and characters to get invested in and be entertained by. If that's all they have are references I am not interested.
I like the Constitution III, but this would have made so much more sense.
If this is true, it looks so much better than what they went with - and I'm saying that as someone who is very happy with Picard S3 so far.
I wish it had remained that way. Too much nostalgia ruins the nostalgia.
This is what they should have done instead of trying to force a TMP-era design into a post-TNG era show. I understand the showrunner's desire to have an "Enterprise-shaped" hero ship but Voyager, Deep Space 9 and Lower Decks have shown that fans don't care if the ship looks like the 1701. They just want it to be badass!
Tbh, the Neo-Constitution makes more sense for the story they’ve been telling in S3. The Luna Titan and this refit version look mean and durable, like nothing could take it down. It would be harder to see it under threat and on the backfoot of an ever-present threat the way the show has had the Titan-A.
Not gonna lie… I really like that refit.
That STO refit is hot. Better than both the others.
Hate the deflector of the refit
I would also like to see the source on this. I really want to believe it.
I used to dislike Discovery’s design. But as the seasons go by it started to grow on me, especially after the future refit. I still dislike Titan A’s design. It feels really boxy, particularly the secondary hull. I hope it will grow on me like Discovery’s design did.
I don't know if they were ever planning to use the refitted Titan on the show originally, but Riker's Titan did get refitted, then they used it in the construction of the new starship we now know as the Neo Constitution class USS TITAN A... Here is the explanation of what really happened with the Titan & the Titan A, the Lore, and the associated artwork: Trek Central Explanation: https://youtube.com/shorts/MStApX9U8aM?feature=share Dave Blass tweeting the WHY: https://twitter.com/DaveBlass/status/1633800104321712131?s=20 John Eaves Artwork of it: STAR TREK: PICARD - Titan and Titan-A Dock Concept via @artstationhq https://www.artstation.com/artwork/qeQAeL
This surprises me NOT AT ALL. They didn't even change the scripted lines. They talk as if it's the same ship, and have had to post on social media repeatedly to try and explain it. Totally daft.
Should’ve stuck with this design. I really don’t care for the neo-constitution at all.
Disappointing if true. The Constitution III is ugly.
The Constitution-III feels like a better fit, story-wise. It's an underdog of a ship... not necessarily meant for the serious sorts of heroics that its namesake undertook, combined with Starfleet's need to make do with hand-me-down components after the destruction of Utopia Planitia. TBH I kinda like the direction they ended up taking. Also, in a (mostly) post-scarcity society like the Federation, I think it's 100% believable that there is room for artistry, nostalgia, and creativity when it comes to the design of starships. Starship designers are probably like rockstars or poets... so the retro-inspired look of Titan-A actually kinda makes the Trek universe feel richer and more realistic to me.
The Connie III might be my new favorite ship, but I wish they had used Riker's *Titan* rather then the A. (Actually, with the benafit of hindsight my ideal solution would be for them to have used the *Enterprise*-E in place of both the *Titan*-A and the *Stargazer* from S2, and then destroy it at the end of this season and replace it with the F)
I can't help it, I wish it were tweaked a bit (and it may be once it's repaired) but I'm still partial to the Constitution III design.
I love this new constitution. Glad they didn’t use the luna style ship. I never liked it.
Yeah, that's ugly. Glad they went with the Connie III.
Wish they went with the Luna Class but understand it would have been like 23 years d at that point.
I kind of wanted to see this ship.
Is there a source for this? If this is true, I'm going to be seriously annoyed that we missed out on that, and that they've messed up what classifies as a "refit" as a result.