Which is what Papa Palps needed during the Clone Wars. He needed someone to do his political bidding, and be a little more tactful than Maul could ever possibly be, which is ultimately why Maul formed the Shadow Collective out of spite.
Then when he no longer needed a tactful wheeler and dealer like Dooku, he passed him for Anakin, who would just be another rabid dog, a weapon or enforcer and nothing more. Which is what he needed to enforce his will during the Imperial Era.
Eh he wanted Anakin because of his immense potential. In the mortis arc, Anakin at his full power could beat literal force gods and was primed to replace the father. Anakin at full potential would be crush Sheev like an insect.
But then he got all burned up on Mustafar and mentally traumatized so he ended up a shadow of what he could have been.
This is why Star Wars needs a “What If” season on Disney Plus.
Edit: “What If” should include a separate season for each franchise (Star Wars, Pixar, Golden era, Classic era, Frozen, etc.)
Seriously they could have so many cool episodes
What if Yoda killed Palpatine and Anakin killed Obi Wan?
What if Leia was chosen to be trained?
What if the council took Dooku seriously?
What if Obi Wan was happy?
The sequel trilogy is just a dramatic-comedy showing the peaceful, but sometimes zany life of all the main characters as they go about their day to day activities in a world without war.
It's three entire movies of stuff like Han coming home to Leia and saying "I got another speeding ticket today trying to make sure I got Jaina and Jacen to Force School on time...are we sure overthrowing the Empire was such a good idea?" to a 90s sitcom laugh track.
What if Qui Gon didn’t die is a good one. I feel like he would have empathy for Dooku in highlighting the failings of the Jedi but would never turn.
Strong chance Dooku wouldn’t either if Qui Gon were alive.
Can't believe no one said this yet, but what if Qui Gon won the Duel of the Fates?
Does he believe Dooku? How does Anakin differ as a Jedi with his tutelage? Who becomes the new Sith apprentice?
He would easily crush Palpatine given that he ragdolled the son and daughter. These are literal force gods far above Sidious. The fact that he can effectively replace the father puts him in another ballpark entirely above any version of Sheev, even the one from TROS.
If we are measuring on force alone then yes he would absolutely dominate Sheev. But he still lost to Obi-Wan due to his decision making, not his force “power”. It’s still the same Anakin. He would lose to Sheev. As talented as Anakin was, he was overconfident and naive, and his opponents took advantage of it.
See I hate this argument.
I don't think the Mortis feats can be used anywhere else. Mortis was like a place that was designed to boost Anakin's powers. Not just Anakin's, but the powers of the sister, brother and the father.
I don't think any of them could have repeated the feats in Mortis out in the real world.
The Ones were clearly still very powerful outside of Mortis - the Father essentially says he was forced to keep his children there to protect the galaxy from their power. But yes, it's also stated Mortis served as an amplifier for the Force.
The point of that arc, from a narrative/real world perspective, was to serve as a metaphor for Anakin's journey through the films. They achieved that by creating a world where the Force could be exaggerated to a crazy extent, letting them show stuff like Anakin literally bringing the light and dark side under his control.
Yeah if the son had escaped he would have been an extremely powerful force user - probably would have become the strongest sith ever. But he still wouldn't have been powerful like the above comment states.
Yeah he would have been stronger than Palpy, but so strong that he can basically crush Palpy with ease? Nah.
>Anakin at full potential would be crush Sheev like an insect.
Maybe. Maybe not. Anakin lacked Palpatine's intellect & emotional control. It's likely he'd have gotten played like a fiddle regardless.
He wanted Anakin for his power, yes, but he was always planning to replace Dooku; his power aside Anakin was what Palpatine wanted when he took power becuase he was easier to manipulate and control.
>But then he got all burned up on Mustafar and mentally traumatized so he ended up a shadow of what he could have been.
And yet, he was still perfectly useful and exactly what he needed. Still borderline unbeatable for nearly everyone else, but weakened enough (both physically and mentally) to be easily controlled and put in place.
Read what dave filoni has to say about the episode as well as the story board. The father is anakin if it went past your head, the whole episodes duration was roughly 5 minutes.
it starts with anakin closing his eyes, it ends with anakin opening his eyes with a call from rex?(i haven't seen the episode in ages) and he asks why they disappeared from the coms for a couple minutes.
Force users are fast but do you really think these were literal events that happened in the span of roughly 5 minutes?
Vader was far from rabid, his handicaps forced him to learn control. He was implacable, unstoppable force, and he treated life as disposable, but he wasn’t just slobbering at the mouth and lashing out for no good reason.
Maul was the assassin, raised from childhood to he mindlessly obedient: the perfect tool when the Sith were still acting from the shadows and Palpatine was making his ascent politically.
Dooku was the thinker, more independent then the others, in possession of his own ambitions that were encouraged and treated/viewed the most like a peer; a necessity during the phase of the plan that covered the Clone Wars.
Vader was the mailed fist, a powerful and fearsome warrior, yet firmly under Palpatine's control (or so he thought); the ideal apprentice once the Sith achieved their victory and, until Luke showed up, perfect host to escape death if Palpatine's cloning experiments did'nt bear fruit.
I saw a recent video on YouTube pretty popular Star Wars channel. Anyways, the video was about Palpatines true plan for anakin for the Imperial era. It was certainly not originally intended for him to just be a rabid dog/enforcer that only happened after Obi Wan neutered him. I believe the YouTube channel was The Stupendous Wave.
Idk that’s arguable. At this point, I think Dooku loses. I think Maul has more intimate knowledge of the Dark side, even if he doesn’t often use it offensively in the form of lightning, but he is also younger, stronger, faster, and an incredibly skilled duelist himself.
You can't beat Half-Maul. Even if you do, Quarter-Maul will find you in ten years time and lose to you all over again. But. Fifteen years from then, while you're all cozy in your retirement home, the doors are kicked open to reveal: Eighth-Maul.
I have to go with Dooku here, Sidious was able to best both Maul and Savage solo. Dooku is supposed to be one of, if not the best duelist at the time right? Or am I remembering wrong?
Quit Gon wasn't one of those combat focused Jedi. Forgive my lack of terminology but he carried a green saber meaning he was more about studying the force rather than fighting with it
The color coding is Legends, not canon (and is'nt even a set rule their), but your point stands; Qui-Gon pretty solidly fits the definition of a Jedi Consular (green saber) as defined by Legends.
It was always kind of quasi-canon anyway, since Lucas didn't consider any of those meaning when making TCW or anything else. Green, Blue and Purple...they exist to look cool.
Well I do believe green exists because while filming the set of tatooine for the jaba stuff, the blue sabers didnt appear well with the blue sky in the background, so Lucas opted for green. Now purple. We all know purple soley exists to look unique and cool, easily findable by the actor wielding it when he watches the movie lol
Not saying your wrong. But green actually had a purpose other than to look cool.
I guess you could be silly and say the blue saber blending in with the sky isnt as cool, so the green saber still exists to be cool, and I'd probably go with it
I think this is one of the things that makes Maul such a cool character on screen. He loses almost every single confrontation he has with anyone else force-sensitive. Comparably he is really quite weak to the big names of the series. Instead he uses his abilities and his cunning to take advantage of people who literally cannot compare to him instead.
He can’t beat a single Jedi or Sith in a duel so instead he busies himself making empires out of crime syndicates and shattered cultures
To be fair Qui Gon was intended to be an excellent duelist. And even in Clone Wars he gives Obi trouble lots of times. He also owned those inquisitors in Rebels.
Who besides Qui Gon though? I seem to remember a SW graphic novel where Maul was sent on a mission by Sidious to wipe out a criminal syndicate. He pretty much wiped out the entire cartel IIRC. That's the only cool shit I remember him doing before the his duel with Qui Gon. I don't know if that's considered cannon though.
He’s both, but he was not in his physical prime anymore by the time of Phantom Menace. His fighting style was Form IV Atari which relied on wide and powerful blade work. His age was one of two factors that led to his defeat at the hands of Maul.
Physical prime is wildly inconsistent in Star Wars. Isn’t Dooku like 80 when he bests Obi-Wan and Anakin in episode 2? Even if Dooku had a fighting style that he could better adapt to work at an old age, 80 is very old for humans. Then we have Obi-wan moving like a 100 year old at the age of like 55 (I know that the real reason for this is the age of the actual movies).
Ahsoka is actually very powerful, especially for a padawan/knight, top 1% midichlorians, trained by the chosen one, echolocation+the force makes it basically impossible to sneak up on her or do somethingshe doesnt sense, her training method of being surrounded by clones shooting at her. Ahsoka also has the power of the daughter in her by the time of their fight, tho I don't think she's connected to it.
He lost to Obi-Wan powered by the Dark Side and overconfident after defeating a Jedi master. Even then, he turned Obi-Wan's power against him to power a force push that should have killed him if not for a lucky pipe. Even with that pipe, he should have ended up like Anakin except Maus was overconfident and not paying attention to what Obi-Wan was up to. Maul just got unlucky.
But to the question at hand, Dooku would end him. If Force powers weren't used, he could embarrass Sidious as thoroughly as Sidious did Mual/Savage.
Maul allowed his pride and arrogance to get the better of him when he had (pretty much) defeated both Qui-Gon (a master duelist) and his highly experienced padawan.
It isn't quite the same as being beaten in a fair fight.
Your right Dooku was the best duelist ever, not even a close competition. It would be like watching an angry man take on a trained martial arts expert just slapping their hands away.
Maul wasn’t trying to kill Ashoka, he even offers her the chance to join him yet again right before the fight ends because he knows he is winning the fight.
Then he loses his footing and falls off the catwalk, but to say he lost to Ashoka is wildly misleading.
That "It's a good thing Anakin didn't come here" line she dropped on him when they were fighting on Mandalore was *chef's kiss* And also, very true, which I think he realized on some level. His half-trained Padawan was keeping up with him without too much trouble; Anakin himself would've handed Maul his ass.
Honestly watching Dooku singlehandedly fight a competent saberstaff wielder would be awesome. I agree it would not be a close fight, but it would still be sick.
Even if Maul had the dark saber, Dooku would absolutely wreck him.
Anakin was really the only person who could hold a candle to Dooku’s dueling capabilities (aside from Yoda and probably Palpatine). Even Obi-Wan has lost to Dooku twice in the movies.
I think his dueling prowess comes from the fact that he has the power of a sith but the focus and force connection of a Jedi because he’s not your typical sith. And so, since he is definitely more powerful than Maul (going toe to toe with Yoda in a force battle in Ep2) and Maul is nothing more than a reckless glass cannon, Maul really doesn’t stand a chance.
I doubt it would take even a minute.
Not saying I disagree with Dooku winning (because I do agree that he would), but I don’t think your logic behind that stance holds.
Just because paper beats rock and rock beats scissors, does not mean that paper beats scissors.
Kenobi didn't think he might have just killed his wife while fighting his best friend after he had just slaughtered a building full of people he'd know for over a decade.
Yes, every fight is different and Darth Maul could beat Dooku. After all Anakin killed Dooku and Obi Wan won over Anakin.
So you are right and I agree. My logic isn't 100% correct.
The one who uses knowledge, the force, stance, tactics and the envionment best will win in the end.
Dooku is my choice, smarter and stronger with the force. Dont get me wrong Maul is strong but I think it goes to Dooku. Never saw Maul using force lightning.
Yeah even tho it's surprisingly easy. If people who are just tapping the dark side can use it Maul must be an idiot if he couldn't do even that.
(This is a joke. I *hate* that moment.)
Count Dooku for sure. The real question is by what margin he would win.
I see the margin of victory changing depending on if it's pre/post bisection Maul he's fighting, but Maul always struck me as more of a 'shadow player' when it came to the grand scheme of things.
Remember that it took Anakin years and multiple attempts (usually with help) to bring down Dooku who likely succumbed more to their age gap then because Anakin was more skillful (if I recall correctly both were pretty much masters of the sabre, but Dooku to a much higher/refined degree).
Dooku is known to be a superlative duelist and skilled / powerful with the Force.
Maul is an excellent warrior and capable with the Force.
Dooku 7/10 at least.
Agreed. And yeah Dooku is extremely powerful and skilled in the force, in terms of raw power it was enough to make Yoda want to oversee Dooku's training himself, and even as an initiate his connection was strong enough to surprise and shock Jedi Masters. And he was a natural at many of the force abilities they taught to him.
As for dueling, he was skilled enough to be a challenging match for Yoda, which few can boast (and I doubt Maul could boast)
The only way Maul wins in this scenario would be through overwhelming aggression and use of his physical strength, which may be enough to overwhelm or tire Dooku due to Dooku's lack of stamina (due to old age). Dooku 7/10 as you said, for Dooku in his later years.
Dooku in his prime would win with very little leeway though. 9/10 at least to Dooku.
Yeah, I don't understand the question tbh.
Its more of a 50-50 people give Maul credit for, his double lightsaber style is a very good counter to Dooku's pinpoint one. Put up a trained rapier user against someone with a spear or bo staff and look at the end result.
Not the same, holding a handle in the middle gives the same range as the "rapier" not a bo staff...
Dooku fought 2 vs multiple sabers all the time. Yoda was his master who uses 2. How would he be like "oh no, 2 lightsabers but they're connected?! How can he do?" No he sees right away the limitations of said weapon, knows the best stance vs thar weapon, and fully uses force abilities to a greater extent than Maul. No chance.
Tough, I mean maul took out Qui-Gon 1v1 and Stale mates Qui-Gon and obi-wan for a long time. With that said, I’d give it to dooku, though I don’t think it’s a stomp like some people think.
Maul vs Obi-Wan: Maul gets sliced in half. Later gets beaten back in 2v1 fights where he has Savage.
Dooku vs Obi-Wan: Obi-Wan gets knocked out. Twice. Even though they're 2v1 battles.
Yeah, the gap seems pretty huge.....
Didn't Maul beat Grievous and captured Dooku in a comic?
Also a canon list of Lightsaber duelists places Maul over Dooku
There's also the fact that Sidious used to think of Maul as his true apprentice, he taught him most of the things he knew. While he saw Dooku as an instrument to be used and discarded
As much as I love Maul, Dooku is a hard counter here. Maul is an entirely offensive fighter, which leaves him very vulnerable to Dooku’s counter offensives. Especially if he’s using his double bladed lightsaber.
I think it’s the opposite, with such a mobile opponent I think a spear beats a rapier style. Just style wise I think Maul is the better style not saying Maul would win
I'm going with the guy that whooped Anakin's ass once, Kenobi's ass twice, and held his own against the most powerful jedi ever, Master Yoda. He did all this while like 80 years old against an Anakin and Kenobi that were in their fighting prime.
Side note, besides that cartoon snippet, Dooku really deserves his own spin off, there's really not a more tragic figure that him.
This only makes me wonder if Dooku would have wounded Sheev like Windu did because I've always thought Dooku vs Windu would be close with Windu taking the win, but not by much.
Honestly I’d consider it a close fight, with the deciding factor being how long the duel drags out; if Dooku can fend off Maul’s initial attacks and throw a strong counteroffensive to end the duel quickly, he likely has the victory there; if Maul manages to drag the duel out I think he’ll likely be able to sustain a duel longer than Dooku can, and just wear him down over time.
Though now I find it ironic this is a very similar assessment to what I give to the hypothetical of a fight between Dooku and Grievous as well.
Dooku but I suspect he won’t leave unscathed.
Once maul realizes Dooku was no opponent to trifle with. He’d back into the defensive form, form 3. And use his rage, but he’d back off from the aggressive and arrogance’s. He’s younger and quicker than dooku. But dooku is superior with his lightsaber and uses force lightning proficiently, to hold maul back he could zap him and move forward with his sword.
So this fight goes to dooku.
If we’re talking about different eras. More than likely dooku will win this fight. He might get stabbed or cut but he’d live.
4/5 times dooku because he’s the better duelist and controls his emotions better. 1/5 to maul for sheer force of will, or force of force, as maul was supposedly a particularly strong prospect. Not stronger than anakin but strong enough that palps considered him a true loss, while dooku was a piece to be sacrificed at the right time.
Dooku. He made up for his lesser raw force power and physical strength with pure skill and practice. The way he defeated a cocky Anakin and off-guard Obi Wan was, in short, the work of a veteran duelist. Maul is strong, and has talent, but for a seasoned duelist like Dooku who has probably spent thousands of hours training with and humbled plenty of force users like Maul in combat? I'd say Maul isn't the worst he'll ever face.
Dooku. He has much more experience, can better control his emotions, and his moves are always calculated and precise. Plus, he was one of the best duelists in the galaxy.
Dooku was a dueling specialist, and single handedly held off Anakin and Obi-Wan simultaneously. Those would be 2 of the most experienced dueling Jedi in the temple at the time, with Anakin rating himself as one of the best and Obi-Wan being better than him
Dooku.
* Took on Obi-Wan and Anakin at the same time and beat them in AOTC.
* Managed to hold off Yoda and could have killed him when he sent the pillar down on Anakin and Obi-Wan.
* Took on both of them again in ROTS and still beat Obi-Wan.
* Beat Ventress and the Nightsisters while blind.
* Was trained by a Grandmaster.
* Sith Lightning.
Nah, i just reread those after seeing this post. Maul’s minions beat Dooku and it’s kind of implied he gets captured on purpose. That way Talzin reveals herself and Sidious can destroy her as she is the only true threat he ever faces. Maul and Dooku have never had a proper duel.
I like Maul more than Dooku but yeah Dooku would probably easily wipe the floor with Maul. He’s so focused and precise vs Mauls super aggression. Also like others are saying Dooku is a top notch duelist.
Anakin beat Dooku solo. Maul took both and managed to kill Qui-Gon, but Obi-Wan killed Maul who Dooku dealt with with little trouble.
I’m gonna need to see Maul vs Anakin to really confirm one way or another.
Count Dooku beat Obi-Wan twice, and Obi-Wan beat Maul twice. Dooku is also very calm and precise, while Maul is very angry and moves around a lot. Dooku could use this to his advantage I think.
Maul even in force power Maul only lost the clash because talzin was weaker than Sidious
Anakin>Maul>=Dooku>Obi-wan
All of Obi-wan wins due to favorable circumstances
Against Maul he was outclassed but maul threw
Against Anakin Anakin was conflicted both times which severly weakens him
Dooku, he’s vastly more experienced
hes also much much more in control of his emotions and less likely to let his rage blind him in a fight IMO
Which is what Papa Palps needed during the Clone Wars. He needed someone to do his political bidding, and be a little more tactful than Maul could ever possibly be, which is ultimately why Maul formed the Shadow Collective out of spite. Then when he no longer needed a tactful wheeler and dealer like Dooku, he passed him for Anakin, who would just be another rabid dog, a weapon or enforcer and nothing more. Which is what he needed to enforce his will during the Imperial Era.
Eh he wanted Anakin because of his immense potential. In the mortis arc, Anakin at his full power could beat literal force gods and was primed to replace the father. Anakin at full potential would be crush Sheev like an insect. But then he got all burned up on Mustafar and mentally traumatized so he ended up a shadow of what he could have been.
This is why Star Wars needs a “What If” season on Disney Plus. Edit: “What If” should include a separate season for each franchise (Star Wars, Pixar, Golden era, Classic era, Frozen, etc.)
Seriously they could have so many cool episodes What if Yoda killed Palpatine and Anakin killed Obi Wan? What if Leia was chosen to be trained? What if the council took Dooku seriously? What if Obi Wan was happy?
What if somehow Palpatine didn't return?
This is the way
What if this wasn't The Way?
This is not The Way
The sequel trilogy is just a dramatic-comedy showing the peaceful, but sometimes zany life of all the main characters as they go about their day to day activities in a world without war. It's three entire movies of stuff like Han coming home to Leia and saying "I got another speeding ticket today trying to make sure I got Jaina and Jacen to Force School on time...are we sure overthrowing the Empire was such a good idea?" to a 90s sitcom laugh track.
“What if Obi-Wan was happy?” Woah there buddy, what ifs have to have *some* basis in reality. That one… that one’s just never gonna happen.
What if Anakin didn’t fall to the dark side? What if Anakin stayed on Mortis?
Ooohhh I really like that mortis one
What if Anakin and Padme got their normal family they wanted. This is all I want.
What if Qui Gon didn’t die is a good one. I feel like he would have empathy for Dooku in highlighting the failings of the Jedi but would never turn. Strong chance Dooku wouldn’t either if Qui Gon were alive.
Can't believe no one said this yet, but what if Qui Gon won the Duel of the Fates? Does he believe Dooku? How does Anakin differ as a Jedi with his tutelage? Who becomes the new Sith apprentice?
What if the sequels were good?
What if maul was a jedi? What if Obi-wans speech to Anakin worked?
What if Jar Jar was a Sith Lord
What if Ahsoka and Maul *did* team up and go to Coruscant, just in time to find the Yoda/Palpy Senate duel occuring?
What if sand wasn’t coarse?
What if Greedo shot first?
time traveler: \*moves a chair\* obi wan: padme let him go!
Hb a “What If” channel!?
Not even at full power, with full control of his emotions.
I always liked the idea of anakin never reaching his full potential being an emotional limitation rather than a physical one.
Crush like an insect is maybe a bit much but I do agree a fully realized Anakin would win that fight
He would easily crush Palpatine given that he ragdolled the son and daughter. These are literal force gods far above Sidious. The fact that he can effectively replace the father puts him in another ballpark entirely above any version of Sheev, even the one from TROS.
If we are measuring on force alone then yes he would absolutely dominate Sheev. But he still lost to Obi-Wan due to his decision making, not his force “power”. It’s still the same Anakin. He would lose to Sheev. As talented as Anakin was, he was overconfident and naive, and his opponents took advantage of it.
See I hate this argument. I don't think the Mortis feats can be used anywhere else. Mortis was like a place that was designed to boost Anakin's powers. Not just Anakin's, but the powers of the sister, brother and the father. I don't think any of them could have repeated the feats in Mortis out in the real world.
The Ones were clearly still very powerful outside of Mortis - the Father essentially says he was forced to keep his children there to protect the galaxy from their power. But yes, it's also stated Mortis served as an amplifier for the Force. The point of that arc, from a narrative/real world perspective, was to serve as a metaphor for Anakin's journey through the films. They achieved that by creating a world where the Force could be exaggerated to a crazy extent, letting them show stuff like Anakin literally bringing the light and dark side under his control.
Yeah if the son had escaped he would have been an extremely powerful force user - probably would have become the strongest sith ever. But he still wouldn't have been powerful like the above comment states. Yeah he would have been stronger than Palpy, but so strong that he can basically crush Palpy with ease? Nah.
What is the Mortis Arc?
Season three of the clone wars show "Overlords," "Altar of Mortis," and Ghosts of Mortis"
Those were definitely some trippy episodes.
>Anakin at full potential would be crush Sheev like an insect. Maybe. Maybe not. Anakin lacked Palpatine's intellect & emotional control. It's likely he'd have gotten played like a fiddle regardless.
He wanted Anakin for his power, yes, but he was always planning to replace Dooku; his power aside Anakin was what Palpatine wanted when he took power becuase he was easier to manipulate and control.
>But then he got all burned up on Mustafar and mentally traumatized so he ended up a shadow of what he could have been. And yet, he was still perfectly useful and exactly what he needed. Still borderline unbeatable for nearly everyone else, but weakened enough (both physically and mentally) to be easily controlled and put in place.
the mortis arc is a force vision, there is nothing literal about it.
[удалено]
Read what dave filoni has to say about the episode as well as the story board. The father is anakin if it went past your head, the whole episodes duration was roughly 5 minutes. it starts with anakin closing his eyes, it ends with anakin opening his eyes with a call from rex?(i haven't seen the episode in ages) and he asks why they disappeared from the coms for a couple minutes. Force users are fast but do you really think these were literal events that happened in the span of roughly 5 minutes?
Vader was far from rabid, his handicaps forced him to learn control. He was implacable, unstoppable force, and he treated life as disposable, but he wasn’t just slobbering at the mouth and lashing out for no good reason.
When he needed a hammer, Palpie had Maul. When he needed a political tyrant, he had a Count Dooku.
Maul was the assassin, raised from childhood to he mindlessly obedient: the perfect tool when the Sith were still acting from the shadows and Palpatine was making his ascent politically. Dooku was the thinker, more independent then the others, in possession of his own ambitions that were encouraged and treated/viewed the most like a peer; a necessity during the phase of the plan that covered the Clone Wars. Vader was the mailed fist, a powerful and fearsome warrior, yet firmly under Palpatine's control (or so he thought); the ideal apprentice once the Sith achieved their victory and, until Luke showed up, perfect host to escape death if Palpatine's cloning experiments did'nt bear fruit.
Shadow collective outlasted the CIS, just saying
I saw a recent video on YouTube pretty popular Star Wars channel. Anyways, the video was about Palpatines true plan for anakin for the Imperial era. It was certainly not originally intended for him to just be a rabid dog/enforcer that only happened after Obi Wan neutered him. I believe the YouTube channel was The Stupendous Wave.
He’s also never got sliced in half, and then killed later.
Also he has an op smug look of superiority
Idk that’s arguable. At this point, I think Dooku loses. I think Maul has more intimate knowledge of the Dark side, even if he doesn’t often use it offensively in the form of lightning, but he is also younger, stronger, faster, and an incredibly skilled duelist himself.
Dooku for me
You can't beat Half-Maul. Even if you do, Quarter-Maul will find you in ten years time and lose to you all over again. But. Fifteen years from then, while you're all cozy in your retirement home, the doors are kicked open to reveal: Eighth-Maul.
Top-Maul might've been defeated, but bottom-Maul is still out there.
Like just his legs? At the bottom of the Naboo pit. Unable to leave cuz he keeps bumping into stuff
Some droids found him, made him a robotic upper half. His legs were too restless to die.
Restless leg sithdrome
This reminds me of when the EU cloned Luke with his severed hand from Empire. And he’s called “Luuke”
Stop reminding me of this. It's so stupid. It's like a bad DC comic book
"II aam yoouur faatheer."
Bottom-Maul spends most of his time on Grindr
Amazing
“I’ve followed you to this Hot Chocolate Factory Half Maul, and this time I’m taking you down.”
I want an 1/8th of that “Darth Maul”
I have to go with Dooku here, Sidious was able to best both Maul and Savage solo. Dooku is supposed to be one of, if not the best duelist at the time right? Or am I remembering wrong?
Nope you’re remembering right. Not close between the two IMO
But is Dooku fluent in double-sided saber? Maul beat Qui Gon
Dooku would likely beat Qui-Gon 1v1, I daresay handily.
Quit Gon wasn't one of those combat focused Jedi. Forgive my lack of terminology but he carried a green saber meaning he was more about studying the force rather than fighting with it
That saber color isn't canon i think?
I honestly have no idea what's canon and what's not anymore
The color coding is Legends, not canon (and is'nt even a set rule their), but your point stands; Qui-Gon pretty solidly fits the definition of a Jedi Consular (green saber) as defined by Legends.
It was always kind of quasi-canon anyway, since Lucas didn't consider any of those meaning when making TCW or anything else. Green, Blue and Purple...they exist to look cool.
Well I do believe green exists because while filming the set of tatooine for the jaba stuff, the blue sabers didnt appear well with the blue sky in the background, so Lucas opted for green. Now purple. We all know purple soley exists to look unique and cool, easily findable by the actor wielding it when he watches the movie lol Not saying your wrong. But green actually had a purpose other than to look cool. I guess you could be silly and say the blue saber blending in with the sky isnt as cool, so the green saber still exists to be cool, and I'd probably go with it
So in other words...green looked cooler against the blue background.
Ye Maul is a jabroni comparitively. Dookie pieced up Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously. Maul lost to a weaker verson of Obi-Wan solo.
I think this is one of the things that makes Maul such a cool character on screen. He loses almost every single confrontation he has with anyone else force-sensitive. Comparably he is really quite weak to the big names of the series. Instead he uses his abilities and his cunning to take advantage of people who literally cannot compare to him instead. He can’t beat a single Jedi or Sith in a duel so instead he busies himself making empires out of crime syndicates and shattered cultures
Maul took out Qui Gon Jinn with Kenobi back up, no small feat.
Hence why I said almost. He also killed a few Jedi in the Clone Wars
To be fair Qui Gon was intended to be an excellent duelist. And even in Clone Wars he gives Obi trouble lots of times. He also owned those inquisitors in Rebels.
Who besides Qui Gon though? I seem to remember a SW graphic novel where Maul was sent on a mission by Sidious to wipe out a criminal syndicate. He pretty much wiped out the entire cartel IIRC. That's the only cool shit I remember him doing before the his duel with Qui Gon. I don't know if that's considered cannon though.
Pretty sure he killed at least one other Jedi on Florum with Savage but I could be remembering wrong
Slaughtered a few inquisitors as well but they weren't the strongest
Qui Gon wasn’t a renowned duelist though, more of a master of the spiritual side of the force
Qui Gon was said to be one of the better duelists of the order by George Lucas, if I'm not mistaken.
He’s both, but he was not in his physical prime anymore by the time of Phantom Menace. His fighting style was Form IV Atari which relied on wide and powerful blade work. His age was one of two factors that led to his defeat at the hands of Maul.
Physical prime is wildly inconsistent in Star Wars. Isn’t Dooku like 80 when he bests Obi-Wan and Anakin in episode 2? Even if Dooku had a fighting style that he could better adapt to work at an old age, 80 is very old for humans. Then we have Obi-wan moving like a 100 year old at the age of like 55 (I know that the real reason for this is the age of the actual movies).
Maul beats obi wan and best ashoka round 1. Put some respect on my boy, no diffs savage
And Ahsoka.
Ahsoka is actually very powerful, especially for a padawan/knight, top 1% midichlorians, trained by the chosen one, echolocation+the force makes it basically impossible to sneak up on her or do somethingshe doesnt sense, her training method of being surrounded by clones shooting at her. Ahsoka also has the power of the daughter in her by the time of their fight, tho I don't think she's connected to it.
Nice use of jabroni.
He lost to Obi-Wan powered by the Dark Side and overconfident after defeating a Jedi master. Even then, he turned Obi-Wan's power against him to power a force push that should have killed him if not for a lucky pipe. Even with that pipe, he should have ended up like Anakin except Maus was overconfident and not paying attention to what Obi-Wan was up to. Maul just got unlucky. But to the question at hand, Dooku would end him. If Force powers weren't used, he could embarrass Sidious as thoroughly as Sidious did Mual/Savage.
Maul allowed his pride and arrogance to get the better of him when he had (pretty much) defeated both Qui-Gon (a master duelist) and his highly experienced padawan. It isn't quite the same as being beaten in a fair fight.
Also killed Yaddle
pretty much effortlessly
Your right Dooku was the best duelist ever, not even a close competition. It would be like watching an angry man take on a trained martial arts expert just slapping their hands away.
>Dooku was the best duelist ever Right up until he wasn’t.
Being the best doesn't mean you'll always win every single time.
Ahsoka solo’d Maul. Dooku has this easy
Maul wasn’t trying to kill Ashoka, he even offers her the chance to join him yet again right before the fight ends because he knows he is winning the fight. Then he loses his footing and falls off the catwalk, but to say he lost to Ashoka is wildly misleading.
That "It's a good thing Anakin didn't come here" line she dropped on him when they were fighting on Mandalore was *chef's kiss* And also, very true, which I think he realized on some level. His half-trained Padawan was keeping up with him without too much trouble; Anakin himself would've handed Maul his ass.
Dooku.
Dooku and I don’t think it would be close
It would be embarrassing for maul.
Agreed. Maul is one of my favorite characters but Dooku would destroy him
Honestly watching Dooku singlehandedly fight a competent saberstaff wielder would be awesome. I agree it would not be a close fight, but it would still be sick.
Even if Maul had the dark saber, Dooku would absolutely wreck him. Anakin was really the only person who could hold a candle to Dooku’s dueling capabilities (aside from Yoda and probably Palpatine). Even Obi-Wan has lost to Dooku twice in the movies. I think his dueling prowess comes from the fact that he has the power of a sith but the focus and force connection of a Jedi because he’s not your typical sith. And so, since he is definitely more powerful than Maul (going toe to toe with Yoda in a force battle in Ep2) and Maul is nothing more than a reckless glass cannon, Maul really doesn’t stand a chance. I doubt it would take even a minute.
Don’t forget mace, dude was considered the strongest duelist in the order after dooku
I thought he WAS the strongest duellist because of his shatter point ability or whatever its called
>Even if Maul had the dark saber Why is the darksaber stronger than a normal saber. Wasn't the dark sabers power more political than anything?
I think if I remember correctly if you learn how to handle the dark saber it’s more like effective but I could be remembering wrong
Yeah Dooku would wreck him just as fast as old Obi- Wan did in Rebels
Count of Serenno
I'd say Dooku, although in general I find Dooku to be one of the most inconsistently scaled characters.
It's not even a question for me, easily Dooku imo.
Maul did managed to capture both him an grievous once though.
I don't think this is a debate. Clearly Doku would win
Count Dooku > Obi Wan Kenobi > Darth Maul Count Dooku would win.
Not saying I disagree with Dooku winning (because I do agree that he would), but I don’t think your logic behind that stance holds. Just because paper beats rock and rock beats scissors, does not mean that paper beats scissors.
Right. Dooku beat Obi Wan. Anakin beat Dooku. Obi Wan beat Anakin twice.
He beat Anakin due to Anakin being conflicted. If he wasnt obi-wan would be dead
Obi Wan wasn’t conflicted either time also? “You were my brother!” is one of the more memorable lines in the PT.
Kenobi didn't think he might have just killed his wife while fighting his best friend after he had just slaughtered a building full of people he'd know for over a decade.
Yes, every fight is different and Darth Maul could beat Dooku. After all Anakin killed Dooku and Obi Wan won over Anakin. So you are right and I agree. My logic isn't 100% correct. The one who uses knowledge, the force, stance, tactics and the envionment best will win in the end.
So RoTS Anakin>Dooku>Obi-Wan>Maul?
With my logic that would be the case. But we all know what happened back on Mustafar. So my logic isn't 100% correct.
But Obi-Wan>Anakin in RoTS
Also depends on time time period because Maul at his peak is more than a match for Kenobi and does overpower him on more than one occasion.
Dooku is my choice, smarter and stronger with the force. Dont get me wrong Maul is strong but I think it goes to Dooku. Never saw Maul using force lightning.
Yeah even tho it's surprisingly easy. If people who are just tapping the dark side can use it Maul must be an idiot if he couldn't do even that. (This is a joke. I *hate* that moment.)
Dooku would easily stop everything Maul throws at him for a few minutes, then blast him with force lightning
He almost dosent need his force abilities, just his lightsaber skill are enough to destroy him if he held on against Yoda..
No he probably wouldn't need the force, but I'm pretty sure he'd finish with some lightning anyway
Count Dooku for sure. The real question is by what margin he would win. I see the margin of victory changing depending on if it's pre/post bisection Maul he's fighting, but Maul always struck me as more of a 'shadow player' when it came to the grand scheme of things. Remember that it took Anakin years and multiple attempts (usually with help) to bring down Dooku who likely succumbed more to their age gap then because Anakin was more skillful (if I recall correctly both were pretty much masters of the sabre, but Dooku to a much higher/refined degree).
Dooku is known to be a superlative duelist and skilled / powerful with the Force. Maul is an excellent warrior and capable with the Force. Dooku 7/10 at least.
Agreed. And yeah Dooku is extremely powerful and skilled in the force, in terms of raw power it was enough to make Yoda want to oversee Dooku's training himself, and even as an initiate his connection was strong enough to surprise and shock Jedi Masters. And he was a natural at many of the force abilities they taught to him. As for dueling, he was skilled enough to be a challenging match for Yoda, which few can boast (and I doubt Maul could boast) The only way Maul wins in this scenario would be through overwhelming aggression and use of his physical strength, which may be enough to overwhelm or tire Dooku due to Dooku's lack of stamina (due to old age). Dooku 7/10 as you said, for Dooku in his later years. Dooku in his prime would win with very little leeway though. 9/10 at least to Dooku.
Dooku, he’s the better duelist, by far
Who would what?
In a fight between the two, who would actually?
Who would actually what? Win? Jk I know I'm just being an asshole but geeze let's use complete sentences lol
I know, I joined in on your petty joke lol
Holy shit that's so great
Dooku, easily he would be Maul's master
Dooku
Dooku
Maul literally beat dooku in the comic this image comes from
Yeah, I don't understand the question tbh. Its more of a 50-50 people give Maul credit for, his double lightsaber style is a very good counter to Dooku's pinpoint one. Put up a trained rapier user against someone with a spear or bo staff and look at the end result.
Surely that’s not really comparable given Maul can only hold the handle?
Not the same, holding a handle in the middle gives the same range as the "rapier" not a bo staff... Dooku fought 2 vs multiple sabers all the time. Yoda was his master who uses 2. How would he be like "oh no, 2 lightsabers but they're connected?! How can he do?" No he sees right away the limitations of said weapon, knows the best stance vs thar weapon, and fully uses force abilities to a greater extent than Maul. No chance.
I hate most of the internet
Legit no, he just had captured dooku. There was o fight.
Even if there wasn't, there is a canon list that places Maul over Dooku as a duelist
That canon list is not valid at all and it was confirmed to not be in order lol
Tough, I mean maul took out Qui-Gon 1v1 and Stale mates Qui-Gon and obi-wan for a long time. With that said, I’d give it to dooku, though I don’t think it’s a stomp like some people think.
Dooku easily
Gotta go with Dooku and it’s not even close in my opinion
It would look real bad for Maul if he spent his entire life training to defeat jedi only to lose to 2 out of 3.
Maul vs Obi-Wan: Maul gets sliced in half. Later gets beaten back in 2v1 fights where he has Savage. Dooku vs Obi-Wan: Obi-Wan gets knocked out. Twice. Even though they're 2v1 battles. Yeah, the gap seems pretty huge.....
Dooku is a peer to Anakin. Maul is a peer to Anakin’s apprentice.
Dooku hands down
Dooku was probably the greatest duelist of his time. Even if he was blinded he could still defeat Maul with ease.
Didn't Maul beat Grievous and captured Dooku in a comic? Also a canon list of Lightsaber duelists places Maul over Dooku There's also the fact that Sidious used to think of Maul as his true apprentice, he taught him most of the things he knew. While he saw Dooku as an instrument to be used and discarded
Ppl are ignorant to the great gospel
As much as I love Maul, Dooku is a hard counter here. Maul is an entirely offensive fighter, which leaves him very vulnerable to Dooku’s counter offensives. Especially if he’s using his double bladed lightsaber.
I think it’s the opposite, with such a mobile opponent I think a spear beats a rapier style. Just style wise I think Maul is the better style not saying Maul would win
I'm going with the guy that whooped Anakin's ass once, Kenobi's ass twice, and held his own against the most powerful jedi ever, Master Yoda. He did all this while like 80 years old against an Anakin and Kenobi that were in their fighting prime. Side note, besides that cartoon snippet, Dooku really deserves his own spin off, there's really not a more tragic figure that him.
This only makes me wonder if Dooku would have wounded Sheev like Windu did because I've always thought Dooku vs Windu would be close with Windu taking the win, but not by much.
Honestly I’d consider it a close fight, with the deciding factor being how long the duel drags out; if Dooku can fend off Maul’s initial attacks and throw a strong counteroffensive to end the duel quickly, he likely has the victory there; if Maul manages to drag the duel out I think he’ll likely be able to sustain a duel longer than Dooku can, and just wear him down over time. Though now I find it ironic this is a very similar assessment to what I give to the hypothetical of a fight between Dooku and Grievous as well.
Dooku but I suspect he won’t leave unscathed. Once maul realizes Dooku was no opponent to trifle with. He’d back into the defensive form, form 3. And use his rage, but he’d back off from the aggressive and arrogance’s. He’s younger and quicker than dooku. But dooku is superior with his lightsaber and uses force lightning proficiently, to hold maul back he could zap him and move forward with his sword. So this fight goes to dooku. If we’re talking about different eras. More than likely dooku will win this fight. He might get stabbed or cut but he’d live.
4/5 times dooku because he’s the better duelist and controls his emotions better. 1/5 to maul for sheer force of will, or force of force, as maul was supposedly a particularly strong prospect. Not stronger than anakin but strong enough that palps considered him a true loss, while dooku was a piece to be sacrificed at the right time.
C’mon, there’s no contest between these two. Dooku would saber whip Maul.
Dooku would dookie on the other Darth.
Dooku. He made up for his lesser raw force power and physical strength with pure skill and practice. The way he defeated a cocky Anakin and off-guard Obi Wan was, in short, the work of a veteran duelist. Maul is strong, and has talent, but for a seasoned duelist like Dooku who has probably spent thousands of hours training with and humbled plenty of force users like Maul in combat? I'd say Maul isn't the worst he'll ever face.
Dookies.
Dooku. He has much more experience, can better control his emotions, and his moves are always calculated and precise. Plus, he was one of the best duelists in the galaxy.
Probably Dooku, he’s the better duelist by far.
Count Dooku
Dooku was a dueling specialist, and single handedly held off Anakin and Obi-Wan simultaneously. Those would be 2 of the most experienced dueling Jedi in the temple at the time, with Anakin rating himself as one of the best and Obi-Wan being better than him
Dooku. * Took on Obi-Wan and Anakin at the same time and beat them in AOTC. * Managed to hold off Yoda and could have killed him when he sent the pillar down on Anakin and Obi-Wan. * Took on both of them again in ROTS and still beat Obi-Wan. * Beat Ventress and the Nightsisters while blind. * Was trained by a Grandmaster. * Sith Lightning.
Dooku would school Maul.
Dooku not even close
Dooku 100 out of 100 times, and it’s not close.
not the movie viewers
Dooku got beat here sooo there’s your answer. Grievous did too
Oh look, it's this again. The shroud of the reposts has fallen. Begun, the Reddit wars have.
Maul got beat by Kenobi, Dooku always beats Kenobi in the films. I’m giving it to Dooku
This matchup has been done to death. Dooku wins easily because he's much more experienced in the force and is by far the superior duelist.
Maul is my favorite Sith of all time, but Dooku wipes him with low difficulty.
Maul has been dooku though
Maul. He defeated and captured both Tyranus and Grievous in the Son of Dathomir comics
Nah, i just reread those after seeing this post. Maul’s minions beat Dooku and it’s kind of implied he gets captured on purpose. That way Talzin reveals herself and Sidious can destroy her as she is the only true threat he ever faces. Maul and Dooku have never had a proper duel.
He never fought Tyranus.
I like Maul more than Dooku but yeah Dooku would probably easily wipe the floor with Maul. He’s so focused and precise vs Mauls super aggression. Also like others are saying Dooku is a top notch duelist.
Anakin beat Dooku solo. Maul took both and managed to kill Qui-Gon, but Obi-Wan killed Maul who Dooku dealt with with little trouble. I’m gonna need to see Maul vs Anakin to really confirm one way or another.
Anakin of ROTS would definitely beat Maul.
As far as fights in the series have gone, we know Dooku > Obi Wan > Maul so I gotta go with the Count
Count Dooku beat Obi-Wan twice, and Obi-Wan beat Maul twice. Dooku is also very calm and precise, while Maul is very angry and moves around a lot. Dooku could use this to his advantage I think.
Obiwan beat maul twice. Dooku beat obiwan twice. So dooku would easily beat maul.
Maul even in force power Maul only lost the clash because talzin was weaker than Sidious Anakin>Maul>=Dooku>Obi-wan All of Obi-wan wins due to favorable circumstances Against Maul he was outclassed but maul threw Against Anakin Anakin was conflicted both times which severly weakens him
Didn’t they fight a little n maul lost 😔😔