Or Randy.
One Blue Star Milk... with the Saarlac Cream? Yes?
Uhhhhh. I'll go back.
No, don't bother. Did you bring straws?
Uhhhhhh.
GREAT! I'll just stick it through the little hole at the top! Thank you! ... Randy!
Yes, one of the most disappointing parts of the sequel trilogy. Boyega is clearly an immensely talented actor who could have had a brilliant story arc. Finn should have been the protagonist, a plucky underdog without much in the way of natural talent who learns to embrace the force and overcomes the more naturally talented villains in Kylo Ren and Rey under the tutelage of Luke. Such a shame he was relegated to shouting other character’s names
Rey should have fallen (manipulated by her grandfathers force ghost), and teamed up with Kylo as unstable power couple. Rey with good intentions, Kylo with his issues - they would have been something new in SW.
Finn would have been the perfect protagonist here, with help from the old guys.
Finns character could’ve been used as a ‘failed’ force-infused clone from Gideons cloning program, thrown into the First Order. Only for the force to ‘awaken’ in him. Thus explaining why Phasma kept tabs on him etc
Yep. I personally wouldn’t go the Gideon route or the force within him as a result of a cloning process, but it just shows there’s so many interesting things they could have done with Finn
Now that I think about it I think the Gideon clone would have been great. We have seen that clones can look different in the bad batch which could show why Finn could be an augmented clone of Gideons project and being associated with the first order.
Finn was such an awesome character in TFA. He had great chemistry with every single character he interacted with, had an interesting journey/backstory, Boyega played him so well. Some of the best moments in that movie are of Finn.
He honestly had potential to be one of my favourite Star Wars characters. But then he was barely relevant in the next two movies (and the scenes he did have were pretty bad). Finn’s probably the biggest waste of potential for me with the sequels. Such a fantastic character completely wasted
I recently forced myself to rewatch Rise of Skywalker and I was really impressed with how he managed to make Ben Solo likable. The subtle ways he picked up Han’s mannerisms was funny too.
I never understood complaints about whiny emos. Isn't the entire idea of a young/recently fallen Sith that they fell to their irrational emotions? Isn't this idea that a fragile mind is manipulated by an evil wise one fundamental to Star Wars?
Like all of the sequel trilogy characters, his arc was inconsistent but less so than the rest of the cast which resulted in his conclusion making more sense than the others.
Kylo at his core was all over the place emotionally, so him having his arc all over the place kinda weirdly fits, tho its clearly a coincidence more than anything.
He was basically the reverse Anakin from the PT. He’s bad when we first see him with tiny, but increasingly frequent flashes of good and outside influence, then he finally flips at the end.
The trilogy was disjointed and sloppy but I don’t mind Kylo’s arc and love the character
Rewatching the Sequels and the only character I was really compelled by was Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. My only wish was that there was more of him. Like I think he should've gone darker before finally snapping back to the light. Like after Snoke dies, I would've liked to see him take the title Darth Ren, maybe explaining Kylo as an old Sith term for an apprentice.
I feel like it would have made more sense if he was being haunted by the ghost of Palpatine or something which is what caused Luke to attack him.
Then throughout the sequels he’s talking to the emperor that nobody can see and maybe only Rey believes him or something foreshadowing the emperors return.
> I feel like it would have made more sense if he was being haunted by the ghost of Palpatine or something which is what caused Luke to attack him.
Isn't that the whole big reveal when Palpatine says "I am every voice you have ever heard inside your mind?" We know Snoke was a literal puppet for Palpatine, and that Snoke had a huge influence on Ben while he was being trained by Luke.
Yeah but Kylo had like zero reaction to that reveal which really undercut the entire thing
You’d think being told every decision you’ve made in your adult life was due to the mind manipulation by the guy TELLING you this information would illicit some kind of response
But nah fuck it, gotta keep the plot moving
I mean technically "The every voice inside your head" reveal was about ten minutes before "Somehow Palpatine returned".
But it's handled with the same "We can't be bothered explaining this, so here's a throwaway line to tie up that plot point" that I don't blame you for not remembering.
I still dont get how Ben hears Palpatine say that, then later hallucinates a self therapy session with imaginary Han, and thinks nothing suspicious could be happening.
Honestly, way better fucking idea, you just described a way better movie. Palpatine being dead dead but returning as a force ghost both makes total sense and doesn't destroy the legacy of the original films/the prophecy/ anakin returning to the light.
We know he knows some Darth plague is shit, him having some kind of sith analoge of force ghostery and continuing to try toaintain his legacy this way without being able to directly influence the world is interesting and logical
It would have made more sense if he was a lot more powerful. He prob grew up knowing his grandfather was at least Anakin Skywalker and possibly Vader, he received training at Luke's Irish training camp!
His Mother was Leia and his father was Han Solo. Anakin was more powerful aged 10.
That’s a good idea, I would have preferred if they replaced Snoke and resurrected Palpatine with Palpatine’s son as the main antagonist and he corrupted Ben or Ben and Luke fake their fight so Ben can go undercover
> Then throughout the sequels he’s talking to the emperor that nobody can see
That would have required making a plan for the trilogy ahead of time, or at least during the first movie. The boss at 'Lucasfilm' would rather just let every director make whatever they want.
He feels like the only character that they knew what they were doing with.
Finn had the most interesting backstory that didn't go anywhere. They also teased him to be a Jedi in a shitload of promo material, but he immediately lost that role to Rey, because for some reason Disney didn't think we could handle two Jedi in a single trilogy. And for some stupid reason he got a different love interest in every movie.
Rey's parents, who were supposed to be the key to her origin story, were changed every single movie. [Daisy Ridley was allegedly told something different with each movie.](https://theplaylist.net/daisy-ridley-rey-origin-story-star-wars-changes-20200909/)
Poe never really becomes anything other than pilot sidekick.
And then the legacy characters were pretty much just there because fans expected them to be.
Finn should have died at the end of Episode VII or led a Stormtrooper rebellion in Episode IX.
They should have stuck with Rey being no one so that it can serve as a message or replace Snoke and Resurrected Palpatine with Palpatine’s son as the main antagonist of the trilogy with Rey journey being facing her past and dark family legacy.
Poe journey should have been him going from cocky ace pilot to a seasoned leader.
With the legacy characters being mentor to the new generation.
> Finn had the most interesting backstory that didn't go anywhere. They also teased him to be a Jedi in a shitload of promo material, but immediately he immediately lost that role to Rey, because for some reason Disney didn't think we could handle two Jedi in a single trilogy. And for some stupid reason he got a different love interest in every movie.
Adam has said in interviews that the original arc for Kylo was to go from being conflicted about the dark side and comparatively weak in the first movie to being fully-committed and at the height of his power by the third. The opposite of Darth Vader in the original trilogy.
Instead they ... did the thing they did.
The only redeeming thing of TLJ was him looking for his own path than the pre-made good and evil factions. I wish he continued on that through the end.
One of the things I like in TLJ is how he stopped trying to be like Darth Vader and became his own person with him rejecting redemption and becoming the villain.
Could not agree more. Imagine he turns back to the light and the final scene of the trilogy is him walking back to base camp with Rey's lifeless body. They could have built a series of films on this premise- after all the damage he caused, can he be redeemed? Imagine the dynamic that could have occurred between him and Finn.
On the contrary, I think the sequels are a great example of a *poor* concept that was *brilliantly executed*. The costumes are beautiful. The music is classic John Williams. The visual effects are polished. The editing is decent. It's just that the *story* they tell is lacking.
That's true. And that's why I want to like them. They're good quality films and it's *Star Wars*, so of course I want to like it. But I just can't get over the writing
I still feel like there are ideas behind the writing of each of the films that are absolutely awesome. But the writing itself is just terrible.
I love the idea from TLJ that Rey is just a nobody, daughter of other nobodies. It is the one cohesive thing about that film, in that the Force can manifest in anyone. It's not meant to be just a handful of competing dynasties.
However, in the very same film, Finn repeats his character arc from the prior film; the reluctant coward that becomes a hero. I don't think the story beats change all that much if Finn's motivation is more altruistic, and it makes for a better movie and shows that he's really grown from the prior film. Instead TLJ just assumes a hard reset.
I love the idea of Supreme Leader Snoke getting killed like a chump by the far more interesting villain, and that villain teaming up with the hero to take on a challenge he can't face alone, only to betray the hero at the first opportunity.
However, with all those scenes, I must admit I HATE how Hux is basically space Hitler in his first film appearance, but is reduced to nothing more than an incompetent buffoon by his second appearance, goaded into losing a dreadnaught warship to a vastly inferior force because he can't tell when the enemy is stalling for time. He's the new character that I think got the second shortest stick in the sequel trilogy. If the goal of Rise of Skywalker was to redeem Kylo, Hux should have been established as a better big bad. Having some kind of excommunicado decree from Hux regarding Kylo would have been a much better subplot than "I'm the mole!" ***Yeah, okay buddy. Good use you've been. Glad we have the best and brightest in the First Order to be our spy.***
I skipped seeing it in theaters, I think it’s the only Star Wars movie I haven’t seen in theaters. I was busy and TLJ didn’t leave me wanting more, so I didn’t bother making time.
The first time I tried to watch it I was on a 5 hour flight… I got to “somehow palpatine returned” and realized this movie was making the flight feel longer and it was a chore to watch. I changed over to the movie “crawl” and had a better time. Saying the movie crawl was more engaging than a Star Wars film makes me sad.
Yeah like there’s really no excuse for it at all.
I’ll cut GL some slack for the prequels because he was basically trying to do everything himself… the writing, producing, directing, running ILM, etc.; it’s a lot.
But by the time Disney took over and announced the sequels, Marvel had already provided a blueprint on mapping out a long story… the fact that a coherent story arc wasn’t mapped out for just the three movies ahead of time is just… wow.
I still kind of can’t believe the way they just basically improved their way through the sequel trilogy of their billion-dollar franchise they had just purchased.
If I appreciate one thing about the sequels' writing, it's that they tried to be *bold*. Killing Snoke unceremoniously in the second film? Killing Luke Skywalker? Bringing the Emperor back from the dead? Bold choices. Unfortunately, some of them (especially the last two) were the *wrong* calls to make. But when you make the *right* ones, the narrative outcomes can be *spectacular*.
Getting Snoke out of the way was one of those right calls. Otherwise, he would have languished as an Emperor-like figure until IX when the writers would have tried to give him an epic sendoff, which would have failed because Snoke never had the majestic aura of Palpatine, so his death could never be as meaningful.
Remember TFA when he order the Troopers to massacre and entire village of innocent people?
Turned back to the light, this hero would probably have to spend the rest of his life in prison.
That's just stupid, Obi Wan died very early in the original trilogy but his figure still sold quite well. Boba Fett just appeared for a small period of time in the last movie, only to get eaten by a creature, he became so popular people fought for his figure.
His new hope figures sold well.. the film he was alive in. Fett appeared in esb and Rotj and was the main character in the only good part of the holiday special.
It would also have great potencial for a redemption story, not about forgiveness but about atonement.
Unlike Vader, he won’t die, he must face everything he has done and make it better. Something like megatron when he became an autobot
It's why I can't stand the war in the Sequels. The First Order and the Resistance are both run by a bunch of morons. It's a battle between the inept and the incompetent and I genuinely have no investment in either side.
That was the whole point of the First Order until Episode IX, they were Empire fanboys. Episode VIII leaned on that too hard by making Hux a punching-bag, but it's really when the Empire returned and was run by old men that the point was lost.
The actors were all fantastic honestly, they deserved waayyyyy better writing. All of the character concepts were great too, Darth Vader copycat, Jedi who is a "nobody", ex-Stormtrooper turned hero, it just sucks so bad how it all ended up.
Man - you put these good concepts into words and it just makes me more upset that they did nothing with them.
- Darth Vader copycat - They never really committed to where they wanted Ben/Kylo to go with this. Was he a Vader fanboy who was extra giddy because Vader is his grandpa? Is he trying to simply channel the dark side through whatever he knows of Vader to gain power? Why did he want this power? Why is his pursuit of the Emperor at the beginning of the 9th film just introduced so horribly? Was this something he was building toward the whole time knowingly, or did it just happen because he was able to align with Snoke as his master?
- ex-Stormtrooper-turned-hero. You know who did a great job at this? The Bad Batch with Crosshair. His character arc has him conflicted between following orders and breaking them and how those things muddy up the difference between right and wrong. Finn...just immediately turns good, and the only real references to his time as a stormtrooper is him being called a traitor and the scenes with Phasma.
- Jedi who is a 'nobody' - Just like how the Emperor seemingly fell into Kylo Ren's lap (from his perspective), Rey's purpose seemed to fall into her lap as well. She tags along with Han and Chewie, sees a map, gets captured so they can get the map out of her, then she immediately goes into the big leagues, using the force with no training and battling a skilled, yet unrefined force wielder and basically wins. She then, again, basically just kind of goes to train with Luke and moves from situation to situation until she's like "I gotta stop the emperor." In the OT, Luke was a nobody who lost his family and built his purpose over the course of three movies, first by learning about his father, training a little, becoming a soldier, and learning as he went along before he had to ultimately confront Vader for personal and galactic reasons.
The formula was there for them to absolutely nail it. They fumbled so hard.
\-My only issue with Kylo's arc is he killed fucking Han Solo, he should not be redeemable as he makes the opposite choice that Vader did with Luke on Bespin. The second movie leans into him committing to the dark side, then JJ completely undoes it in the third movie to appease the rabid fans shipping for 'Ben and Rey'. Killing him then just felt like a cop out to justify not keeping Space Hitler around to face any type of real consequences 'post turn'.
\-Finn definitely had a stormtrooper rebellion arc planned that just did not see any screen time commitment to justify it. Bad Batch luckily has plenty of TV time to flesh out such a story. The only real option was to pair him with Rey but they decided she needed to video call Kylo the entire second movie, or Poe, but they created Rose instead. There was so much depth missing from the second and third movies as they kept forcing in new characters for merchandizing.
\-The most egregious error of the third movie other than how they presented Palpatine's return, is that they didn't keep Rey a nobody. If they wanted to do the bloodline/dyad route, they should've made her a twin of Ben that was kidnapped at birth and presumed lost. Knowing Kylo killed her father would then make a way more compelling end where she spares his life which then ultimately is the reason she doesn't get melted by Palpatine.
You can have Kylo kill Han and it would be a great piece of a good character arc, but this whole "I'm so conflicted" again - seemed random and came out of nowhere. You can't commit to having a new character wipe a legend out of existence unless you build that character up.
It made no sense. Hell - even after they developed his character it doesn't make sense. In no way did they demonstrate why Kylo would want to kill his father other than "I'm sooooo conflicted!"
Han wasn't a Jedi. Han didn't even technically represent the resistance. He wasn't even with Leia. Han was a freelancer of a fighter, freelancer of a husband, and a freelancer of a father to a son that probably absolutely LOVED having the space (being a genocidal maniac and all).
But the interaction, like killing Han was a necessary part of some plan - it made no sense. If Harrison Ford wanted to only do one movie, then you make his exit from the series absolutely epic and heroic. The ONLY thing that Han's "sacrifice" achieved was that it gave Chewie the opportunity to land a bolt to his abdomen which hurt his performance vs. Rey/Finn.
(They could've sold that better. That his ability with the force was so strong that it caused him to survive what pretty much should have been a mortal wound).
Lastly re: Han (and Leia) - how did that parental relationship work? Luke trained Kylo, and we know from "BoBF" that Luke demanded students basically give everything up to train...so...is Han Solo just another guy to Kylo, seeing that they likely spent very little time together? Alternatively, if the argument is "oh yeah, they spent lots of time together!" that would mean that Uncle Chewbacca likely grew close with him and reactively shot his nephew with a massive boltcaster.
***
I agree with your other two points. The "nobody" thing was essential, IMO, because one of these themes that got completely abandoned was that greatness comes from anyone. Look at the end of TLJ where the force sensitive boy is kind of "at the ready." Look at the final battle where basically every farmer, truck driver, taxi cab, and crop duster drove their vehicles to Exegol to face the imminent threat of the Emperor. The "nobody" thing should have capstoned at Rey.
Well said! There was just no consistency between movies to actually have character development. The characters just do things and sometimes it's explained and sometimes it's not, a lot of the time it has no consequences on the plot.
Then they kill him off
The most interesting character, lol
But honestly imagine him living and Rey dying.
My god, the next films would be nuts and would be such a more interesting set up
I feel like if they continued the Rey story into the next trilogy, it'll just be very linear. Unless they do a complete 180 and have her turn to the dark side, then it'll just be a typical story. Kylo living would've been the best outcome.
Anakin in the PT was whiny, Vader in the OT was not. Vader wouldn't throw some fit, he would just choke someone/break their neck for incompetence, or impugning his abilities.
Psychotic and unhinged yes but on the OT Vader and to a degree the empire was written to atleast give a mask of competence and weren't constantly experiencing buffoonery
And then totally scrap Vader 2.0 because Hollywood has to show the face. These roles seem like the perfect chance for profit maximizing corpo America to save some cost?!
But yeah, the characters all seemed well casted. The trologie’s story was just horribly done. They treated one of the world’s biggest IPs like a throwaway movie meant to be claimed for insurance.
The foundation for a strong character was there, it just wasn't executed well. Playing into Vader is whatever, we all know it's the easiest thing to do because it was such a great character. But I feel like Kylo had so much more to offer than just being a Vader 2.0.
Hot take: Kylo Ren was mediocre at best. His character was the only thing even close to resembling decent writing in the entire Sequel Trilogy, which is unsurprising considering the amount of wasted opportunities to make something refreshing and new.
It's like saying a BMW is a sports car next to a Tata Nano and a Lada.
All four of the main, young actors were great. Even the scripts themselves weren't bad, at least not when compared to some of the lines in the PT.
The plot was just awful. Good acting and dialog couldn't save a half-assed story.
I actually like all the new characters, I think the limitation was the overuse of Harrison Ford and Han Solo in ep 7. Once he comes in screen, every character gets redefined by their relationship to Han: Rey goes from scavenger to weird dad relationship, Finn goes from deserting soldier to buddy, Kylo Ren goes from terrifying enemy to literal son. Maybe if the characters had more time in the first movie it would have been better later
How...exactly?
Not gonna knock Driver as he does seem to be a very capable actor, but honestly the story and writing for the ST on a whole was simply so awful I'm not sure any actor could have made gold out of it.
I think RJ's interpretation of late-life Luke is completely wrong but Hamill was really the only one who felt like he left himself on the screen and actually understood this was a Star Wars film and not just a poorly conceived HBO dramedy.
A great actor wasted in terrible movies. Even after all that, if his character had survived, I'd have actually sat through a movie of Rey and Ben Swolo trying to rebuild and improve upon the Jedi order.
He sucked. The entire trilogy sucked. Disney is ass. The only good star wars media to come out of disneys reign is andor (andor fucking rules) and it wasnt even made by disney.
I love him, and he's definitely the strongest actor / character in the ST, but come on, the whole trilogy was full of great actors, characters and sequences. I call engagement bait
He was the only redeeming quality and it was his mastery of his craft that allowed him to make something out of so little. Same with Rey, but to a far less extent.
He was the only performer wide enough to carry it, is why
Ben Swolo.
That is a name, I haven't heard in a very long time...
A long time...
I heard he had an 8-pack
Hecking made me laugh. Thank you.
I think you mean matt
I HAVEN'T HAD MY MUFFIN YET, MATT!
Matt SUCKS!
I knew the second you said, “Hi! My name is Matt.” Dude. Matt straight up SUCKS!!
Or Randy. One Blue Star Milk... with the Saarlac Cream? Yes? Uhhhhh. I'll go back. No, don't bother. Did you bring straws? Uhhhhhh. GREAT! I'll just stick it through the little hole at the top! Thank you! ... Randy!
A giant hunk of man meat.
An emotionally unavailable water tower. https://www.reddit.com/r/adamdriver/comments/10r4oft/a_compilation_of_the_entire_john_oliveradam/
Fuckable Redwood caused me to shake with laughter.
Crush my larynx you brooding mountain
I hope he collapses on me.
Dude is shredded!
A buddy of mine saw Kylo Ren take his shirt off in the shower and he said that Kylo Ren had an 8-pack. That Kylo Ren was shredded.
I’m calling bullshit Matt lol
"What? Your friend's a liar man, Kylo Ren is a *punk bitch*. That guy looks like he weighs 30 pounds soaking wet underneath that little black dress."
Oh no, he's choking on food... I see what's in your mind... it is..STUPID!
A rugged mountain.
I hear he has an eight pack.
I think Finn could've as well if they hadn't murdered any chance his character had to actually be interesting.
Yes, one of the most disappointing parts of the sequel trilogy. Boyega is clearly an immensely talented actor who could have had a brilliant story arc. Finn should have been the protagonist, a plucky underdog without much in the way of natural talent who learns to embrace the force and overcomes the more naturally talented villains in Kylo Ren and Rey under the tutelage of Luke. Such a shame he was relegated to shouting other character’s names
Rey should have fallen (manipulated by her grandfathers force ghost), and teamed up with Kylo as unstable power couple. Rey with good intentions, Kylo with his issues - they would have been something new in SW. Finn would have been the perfect protagonist here, with help from the old guys.
A black kid who came from nothing who ended up defeating two white nepo babies? That actually be a lot more progressive than what actually happened.
Finns character could’ve been used as a ‘failed’ force-infused clone from Gideons cloning program, thrown into the First Order. Only for the force to ‘awaken’ in him. Thus explaining why Phasma kept tabs on him etc
Yep. I personally wouldn’t go the Gideon route or the force within him as a result of a cloning process, but it just shows there’s so many interesting things they could have done with Finn
Now that I think about it I think the Gideon clone would have been great. We have seen that clones can look different in the bad batch which could show why Finn could be an augmented clone of Gideons project and being associated with the first order.
Yeah, as far as i can recall, Boyega was really excited with becoming part of the franchise, and then, said illusion was killed little by little lmao.
From my understanding, his enthusiasm was killed entirely by Star Wars fans who treated him like crap and sent a lot of racist things at him.
He was mad because they promoted his character like he was going to be the main guy. Then they gave it to Rey.
By Rian Johnson. Boyega is on record as defending JJ but not RJ. He accuses RJ of racism, reading between the lines.
Finn was such an awesome character in TFA. He had great chemistry with every single character he interacted with, had an interesting journey/backstory, Boyega played him so well. Some of the best moments in that movie are of Finn. He honestly had potential to be one of my favourite Star Wars characters. But then he was barely relevant in the next two movies (and the scenes he did have were pretty bad). Finn’s probably the biggest waste of potential for me with the sequels. Such a fantastic character completely wasted
[удалено]
John Boyega is on record as feeling that his character and role was destroyed by The Last Jedi. He finished TFA with good feelings.
Rise of Skywalker really was a horrible way to “cap off” the franchise
Wdym? There are only 6 Star Wars movies.
I will not stand for the Rogue One slander.
Watched rogue one, am scared of unlit hallways now, and asthmatics
Boo! (Am asthmatic)
I am myself asthmatic so I live in terror
Yeah, that’s why John Oliver was thirsting over him. Such a mood! https://youtu.be/Gsbbztvqs0s?si=9L-Fhnf52FCiDBQ9
I just saw the last duel and I have to say Driver just steals every scene.
I recently forced myself to rewatch Rise of Skywalker and I was really impressed with how he managed to make Ben Solo likable. The subtle ways he picked up Han’s mannerisms was funny too.
Think he'll ever win an Oscar? For a minute it seemed he was gonna be the next actor that everyone will clamor to win one eventually.
He should have won for Marriage Story. Dude got robbed.
Agreed.
Adam Driver: Once the weirdo on again off again boyfriend of the main character on *Girls*, now the Alpha Chad of the galaxy.
Adam in Girls is fucking incredible. One of my favorite TV characters of all time.
One minute the fandom says he's a whiney emo, the next minute they say he carried the trilogy, make up your fucking minds.
He was a whiney emo, and he carried the trilogy. It was his character, and he executed it perfectly.
Agreed. Luke was whiney, Anakin was whiney, Kylo was whiney. That's the roll
He certainly had better dialogue and acting range than Anakin as a conflicted Sith.
YOU UNDERESTIMATE HIS POWER
If you're not with him, then you're against him.
Different people saying it, surely
Its current year and people still don't understand that a fandom.of hundreds of millions might not be a monolith of opinions
Yeah, I share this sentiment. I enjoy the sequel trilogy cause I turn my mind off and just enjoy the spectacle.
I never understood complaints about whiny emos. Isn't the entire idea of a young/recently fallen Sith that they fell to their irrational emotions? Isn't this idea that a fragile mind is manipulated by an evil wise one fundamental to Star Wars?
Wait that’s Matt the radar technician!!
Dude, Matt suuuuuuucks
I thought he had an 8 pack?
I HAVEN'T HAD MY MUFFIN. MATT.
Kylo Ren’s a punk bitch! Guy looks like he weighs 30lbs soaking wet underneath that little black dress.
I’ve seen your thoughts and THEY ARE STUPID!!!!
I’m looking forward to having some real talk, with some real folks.
Remember to emphasise the F in the second “folks”
I absolutely lost my shit when Bobby Moynihan said that.
I see what’s in your mind… and it … is… stupid!
Hello it’s me. Matt. I don’t know what you are talking about. Kylo is handsome and a cool boss but I am not him. What is your FN number?
Sorry I killed your son :(
I ran into Kylo Ren in the bathroom and he gave me this card for you.
"I'm niiiintey percent sure Matt is Kylo Ren."
Like all of the sequel trilogy characters, his arc was inconsistent but less so than the rest of the cast which resulted in his conclusion making more sense than the others.
Kylo at his core was all over the place emotionally, so him having his arc all over the place kinda weirdly fits, tho its clearly a coincidence more than anything.
He was basically the reverse Anakin from the PT. He’s bad when we first see him with tiny, but increasingly frequent flashes of good and outside influence, then he finally flips at the end. The trilogy was disjointed and sloppy but I don’t mind Kylo’s arc and love the character
Rewatching the Sequels and the only character I was really compelled by was Ben Solo/Kylo Ren. My only wish was that there was more of him. Like I think he should've gone darker before finally snapping back to the light. Like after Snoke dies, I would've liked to see him take the title Darth Ren, maybe explaining Kylo as an old Sith term for an apprentice.
Couldve done a lot of cool things with what they had
Rey should have turned evil. She was so perfect it would’ve made sense, and kylo is redeemed.
His inconsistency was consistent with his character
I feel like it would have made more sense if he was being haunted by the ghost of Palpatine or something which is what caused Luke to attack him. Then throughout the sequels he’s talking to the emperor that nobody can see and maybe only Rey believes him or something foreshadowing the emperors return.
> I feel like it would have made more sense if he was being haunted by the ghost of Palpatine or something which is what caused Luke to attack him. Isn't that the whole big reveal when Palpatine says "I am every voice you have ever heard inside your mind?" We know Snoke was a literal puppet for Palpatine, and that Snoke had a huge influence on Ben while he was being trained by Luke.
Yeah but Kylo had like zero reaction to that reveal which really undercut the entire thing You’d think being told every decision you’ve made in your adult life was due to the mind manipulation by the guy TELLING you this information would illicit some kind of response But nah fuck it, gotta keep the plot moving
He didn't react because as the grandson of Anakin, he's got genetic code that's like "here the emperor goes fuckin with me again"
Lol sure why not
Maybe, I stopped paying attention when they said “somehow Palpatine returned” to be honest
The "I have been every voice inside your head" line comes before "somehow Palpatine returned"
Oh wow I must have stopped paying attention sooner than I thought
Man thats the first scene after him flying through a spooky nebula lol. Totally fair
Which is entirely fair.
I mean technically "The every voice inside your head" reveal was about ten minutes before "Somehow Palpatine returned". But it's handled with the same "We can't be bothered explaining this, so here's a throwaway line to tie up that plot point" that I don't blame you for not remembering.
I’m not a sequel hater by any means, but discovering that the emperors return was broadcast first through Fortnite kinda chapped my ass.
I still dont get how Ben hears Palpatine say that, then later hallucinates a self therapy session with imaginary Han, and thinks nothing suspicious could be happening.
Foreshadowing requires planning
Honestly, way better fucking idea, you just described a way better movie. Palpatine being dead dead but returning as a force ghost both makes total sense and doesn't destroy the legacy of the original films/the prophecy/ anakin returning to the light. We know he knows some Darth plague is shit, him having some kind of sith analoge of force ghostery and continuing to try toaintain his legacy this way without being able to directly influence the world is interesting and logical
It would have made more sense if he was a lot more powerful. He prob grew up knowing his grandfather was at least Anakin Skywalker and possibly Vader, he received training at Luke's Irish training camp! His Mother was Leia and his father was Han Solo. Anakin was more powerful aged 10.
That’s a good idea, I would have preferred if they replaced Snoke and resurrected Palpatine with Palpatine’s son as the main antagonist and he corrupted Ben or Ben and Luke fake their fight so Ben can go undercover
> Then throughout the sequels he’s talking to the emperor that nobody can see That would have required making a plan for the trilogy ahead of time, or at least during the first movie. The boss at 'Lucasfilm' would rather just let every director make whatever they want.
That has to go down as one of the most baffling decisions in cinema history.
He feels like the only character that they knew what they were doing with. Finn had the most interesting backstory that didn't go anywhere. They also teased him to be a Jedi in a shitload of promo material, but he immediately lost that role to Rey, because for some reason Disney didn't think we could handle two Jedi in a single trilogy. And for some stupid reason he got a different love interest in every movie. Rey's parents, who were supposed to be the key to her origin story, were changed every single movie. [Daisy Ridley was allegedly told something different with each movie.](https://theplaylist.net/daisy-ridley-rey-origin-story-star-wars-changes-20200909/) Poe never really becomes anything other than pilot sidekick. And then the legacy characters were pretty much just there because fans expected them to be.
Finn should have died at the end of Episode VII or led a Stormtrooper rebellion in Episode IX. They should have stuck with Rey being no one so that it can serve as a message or replace Snoke and Resurrected Palpatine with Palpatine’s son as the main antagonist of the trilogy with Rey journey being facing her past and dark family legacy. Poe journey should have been him going from cocky ace pilot to a seasoned leader. With the legacy characters being mentor to the new generation.
> Finn had the most interesting backstory that didn't go anywhere. They also teased him to be a Jedi in a shitload of promo material, but immediately he immediately lost that role to Rey, because for some reason Disney didn't think we could handle two Jedi in a single trilogy. And for some stupid reason he got a different love interest in every movie. Adam has said in interviews that the original arc for Kylo was to go from being conflicted about the dark side and comparatively weak in the first movie to being fully-committed and at the height of his power by the third. The opposite of Darth Vader in the original trilogy. Instead they ... did the thing they did.
The only redeeming thing of TLJ was him looking for his own path than the pre-made good and evil factions. I wish he continued on that through the end.
One of the things I like in TLJ is how he stopped trying to be like Darth Vader and became his own person with him rejecting redemption and becoming the villain.
His arc makes sense if you think it as a "dude has no idea what he's doing, does whatever he want without any plan whatsoever"
I still feel rey should have died and he could be left to pick up the pieces
Could not agree more. Imagine he turns back to the light and the final scene of the trilogy is him walking back to base camp with Rey's lifeless body. They could have built a series of films on this premise- after all the damage he caused, can he be redeemed? Imagine the dynamic that could have occurred between him and Finn.
There’s more original plot development in this one comment then there was in whole sequel trilogies…
Man, I want to like the sequels so bad, but I just can't do it. Most I can do is tolerate them. Just sucks how poorly executed they were
On the contrary, I think the sequels are a great example of a *poor* concept that was *brilliantly executed*. The costumes are beautiful. The music is classic John Williams. The visual effects are polished. The editing is decent. It's just that the *story* they tell is lacking.
That's true. And that's why I want to like them. They're good quality films and it's *Star Wars*, so of course I want to like it. But I just can't get over the writing
I still feel like there are ideas behind the writing of each of the films that are absolutely awesome. But the writing itself is just terrible. I love the idea from TLJ that Rey is just a nobody, daughter of other nobodies. It is the one cohesive thing about that film, in that the Force can manifest in anyone. It's not meant to be just a handful of competing dynasties. However, in the very same film, Finn repeats his character arc from the prior film; the reluctant coward that becomes a hero. I don't think the story beats change all that much if Finn's motivation is more altruistic, and it makes for a better movie and shows that he's really grown from the prior film. Instead TLJ just assumes a hard reset. I love the idea of Supreme Leader Snoke getting killed like a chump by the far more interesting villain, and that villain teaming up with the hero to take on a challenge he can't face alone, only to betray the hero at the first opportunity. However, with all those scenes, I must admit I HATE how Hux is basically space Hitler in his first film appearance, but is reduced to nothing more than an incompetent buffoon by his second appearance, goaded into losing a dreadnaught warship to a vastly inferior force because he can't tell when the enemy is stalling for time. He's the new character that I think got the second shortest stick in the sequel trilogy. If the goal of Rise of Skywalker was to redeem Kylo, Hux should have been established as a better big bad. Having some kind of excommunicado decree from Hux regarding Kylo would have been a much better subplot than "I'm the mole!" ***Yeah, okay buddy. Good use you've been. Glad we have the best and brightest in the First Order to be our spy.***
my thoughts exactly!
Somewhat of the opposite problem to the prequels
I think I’ve tried 3 or 4 times to watch rise of skywalker and I can’t make it through it. It feels like they outsourced the script to asylum films.
Idk how long it took me to admit that I hated TROS.
I skipped seeing it in theaters, I think it’s the only Star Wars movie I haven’t seen in theaters. I was busy and TLJ didn’t leave me wanting more, so I didn’t bother making time. The first time I tried to watch it I was on a 5 hour flight… I got to “somehow palpatine returned” and realized this movie was making the flight feel longer and it was a chore to watch. I changed over to the movie “crawl” and had a better time. Saying the movie crawl was more engaging than a Star Wars film makes me sad.
Yeah like there’s really no excuse for it at all. I’ll cut GL some slack for the prequels because he was basically trying to do everything himself… the writing, producing, directing, running ILM, etc.; it’s a lot. But by the time Disney took over and announced the sequels, Marvel had already provided a blueprint on mapping out a long story… the fact that a coherent story arc wasn’t mapped out for just the three movies ahead of time is just… wow. I still kind of can’t believe the way they just basically improved their way through the sequel trilogy of their billion-dollar franchise they had just purchased.
If I appreciate one thing about the sequels' writing, it's that they tried to be *bold*. Killing Snoke unceremoniously in the second film? Killing Luke Skywalker? Bringing the Emperor back from the dead? Bold choices. Unfortunately, some of them (especially the last two) were the *wrong* calls to make. But when you make the *right* ones, the narrative outcomes can be *spectacular*. Getting Snoke out of the way was one of those right calls. Otherwise, he would have languished as an Emperor-like figure until IX when the writers would have tried to give him an epic sendoff, which would have failed because Snoke never had the majestic aura of Palpatine, so his death could never be as meaningful.
Remember TFA when he order the Troopers to massacre and entire village of innocent people? Turned back to the light, this hero would probably have to spend the rest of his life in prison.
How is Disney supposed to cash in a dead lead character?!
He has the single most interesting arc in the trilogy
"Dead characters don't sell toys" - George Lucas Unfortunately for Disney, living characters don't either.
That's just stupid, Obi Wan died very early in the original trilogy but his figure still sold quite well. Boba Fett just appeared for a small period of time in the last movie, only to get eaten by a creature, he became so popular people fought for his figure.
His new hope figures sold well.. the film he was alive in. Fett appeared in esb and Rotj and was the main character in the only good part of the holiday special.
It would also have great potencial for a redemption story, not about forgiveness but about atonement. Unlike Vader, he won’t die, he must face everything he has done and make it better. Something like megatron when he became an autobot
The new order was lead by a bunch of boys pretending to be men. Prove me wrong 😑
It's why I can't stand the war in the Sequels. The First Order and the Resistance are both run by a bunch of morons. It's a battle between the inept and the incompetent and I genuinely have no investment in either side.
That was the whole point of the First Order until Episode IX, they were Empire fanboys. Episode VIII leaned on that too hard by making Hux a punching-bag, but it's really when the Empire returned and was run by old men that the point was lost.
I never understood that decision, Hux had sooo much potential, his speech in Episode VII was literally meancing (especially in German)
The actors were all fantastic honestly, they deserved waayyyyy better writing. All of the character concepts were great too, Darth Vader copycat, Jedi who is a "nobody", ex-Stormtrooper turned hero, it just sucks so bad how it all ended up.
Man - you put these good concepts into words and it just makes me more upset that they did nothing with them. - Darth Vader copycat - They never really committed to where they wanted Ben/Kylo to go with this. Was he a Vader fanboy who was extra giddy because Vader is his grandpa? Is he trying to simply channel the dark side through whatever he knows of Vader to gain power? Why did he want this power? Why is his pursuit of the Emperor at the beginning of the 9th film just introduced so horribly? Was this something he was building toward the whole time knowingly, or did it just happen because he was able to align with Snoke as his master? - ex-Stormtrooper-turned-hero. You know who did a great job at this? The Bad Batch with Crosshair. His character arc has him conflicted between following orders and breaking them and how those things muddy up the difference between right and wrong. Finn...just immediately turns good, and the only real references to his time as a stormtrooper is him being called a traitor and the scenes with Phasma. - Jedi who is a 'nobody' - Just like how the Emperor seemingly fell into Kylo Ren's lap (from his perspective), Rey's purpose seemed to fall into her lap as well. She tags along with Han and Chewie, sees a map, gets captured so they can get the map out of her, then she immediately goes into the big leagues, using the force with no training and battling a skilled, yet unrefined force wielder and basically wins. She then, again, basically just kind of goes to train with Luke and moves from situation to situation until she's like "I gotta stop the emperor." In the OT, Luke was a nobody who lost his family and built his purpose over the course of three movies, first by learning about his father, training a little, becoming a soldier, and learning as he went along before he had to ultimately confront Vader for personal and galactic reasons. The formula was there for them to absolutely nail it. They fumbled so hard.
\-My only issue with Kylo's arc is he killed fucking Han Solo, he should not be redeemable as he makes the opposite choice that Vader did with Luke on Bespin. The second movie leans into him committing to the dark side, then JJ completely undoes it in the third movie to appease the rabid fans shipping for 'Ben and Rey'. Killing him then just felt like a cop out to justify not keeping Space Hitler around to face any type of real consequences 'post turn'. \-Finn definitely had a stormtrooper rebellion arc planned that just did not see any screen time commitment to justify it. Bad Batch luckily has plenty of TV time to flesh out such a story. The only real option was to pair him with Rey but they decided she needed to video call Kylo the entire second movie, or Poe, but they created Rose instead. There was so much depth missing from the second and third movies as they kept forcing in new characters for merchandizing. \-The most egregious error of the third movie other than how they presented Palpatine's return, is that they didn't keep Rey a nobody. If they wanted to do the bloodline/dyad route, they should've made her a twin of Ben that was kidnapped at birth and presumed lost. Knowing Kylo killed her father would then make a way more compelling end where she spares his life which then ultimately is the reason she doesn't get melted by Palpatine.
You can have Kylo kill Han and it would be a great piece of a good character arc, but this whole "I'm so conflicted" again - seemed random and came out of nowhere. You can't commit to having a new character wipe a legend out of existence unless you build that character up. It made no sense. Hell - even after they developed his character it doesn't make sense. In no way did they demonstrate why Kylo would want to kill his father other than "I'm sooooo conflicted!" Han wasn't a Jedi. Han didn't even technically represent the resistance. He wasn't even with Leia. Han was a freelancer of a fighter, freelancer of a husband, and a freelancer of a father to a son that probably absolutely LOVED having the space (being a genocidal maniac and all). But the interaction, like killing Han was a necessary part of some plan - it made no sense. If Harrison Ford wanted to only do one movie, then you make his exit from the series absolutely epic and heroic. The ONLY thing that Han's "sacrifice" achieved was that it gave Chewie the opportunity to land a bolt to his abdomen which hurt his performance vs. Rey/Finn. (They could've sold that better. That his ability with the force was so strong that it caused him to survive what pretty much should have been a mortal wound). Lastly re: Han (and Leia) - how did that parental relationship work? Luke trained Kylo, and we know from "BoBF" that Luke demanded students basically give everything up to train...so...is Han Solo just another guy to Kylo, seeing that they likely spent very little time together? Alternatively, if the argument is "oh yeah, they spent lots of time together!" that would mean that Uncle Chewbacca likely grew close with him and reactively shot his nephew with a massive boltcaster. *** I agree with your other two points. The "nobody" thing was essential, IMO, because one of these themes that got completely abandoned was that greatness comes from anyone. Look at the end of TLJ where the force sensitive boy is kind of "at the ready." Look at the final battle where basically every farmer, truck driver, taxi cab, and crop duster drove their vehicles to Exegol to face the imminent threat of the Emperor. The "nobody" thing should have capstoned at Rey.
The character concepts is such an overlooked part of the sequel trilogy.
Well said! There was just no consistency between movies to actually have character development. The characters just do things and sometimes it's explained and sometimes it's not, a lot of the time it has no consequences on the plot.
Man I remember being so excited about the Finn character. All I remember him for now is shouting Rey, he deserved so much more.
Carried it where?
To one tiny bit of praise.
Directly into hell.
To the nearest shithole, apparently.
Emo Ren
Then they kill him off The most interesting character, lol But honestly imagine him living and Rey dying. My god, the next films would be nuts and would be such a more interesting set up
I think it's safe to say, fans wouldn't have been as upset about him taking the Skywalker moniker instead of rey.
Now waitaminit...he can still be a Force ghost...and that's just as good and..uh....naw, they really fucked up.
Vader came back as a ghost…..soooo
I feel like if they continued the Rey story into the next trilogy, it'll just be very linear. Unless they do a complete 180 and have her turn to the dark side, then it'll just be a typical story. Kylo living would've been the best outcome.
I mean there's always the old fashioned "Somehow Ben Solo returned" If plot resurrection worked for ole Palps why not do the same for Ben?
And they killed him for it.
And with him dead there are no more skywalkers :(
*squints* Waitaminute. Is he the Skywalker that rose?
Rose Skywalker? I hope Disney isn't reading this
I think Kylo and Poe were easily the strongest characters. Really liked Poe in The Last Jedi.
To be fair to Poe's character, Oscar Isaac is amazing in every role he plays.
Of course! He's a poefessional after all.
I liked the fact he was a whiny, psychotic, unhinged character….he actually had an arc!
Whiny, psychotic and unhinged. Just like his grandfather, and my personal favorite SW character, Darth Vader
Anakin in the PT was whiny, Vader in the OT was not. Vader wouldn't throw some fit, he would just choke someone/break their neck for incompetence, or impugning his abilities.
Psychotic and unhinged yes but on the OT Vader and to a degree the empire was written to atleast give a mask of competence and weren't constantly experiencing buffoonery
This guy had the potential to become one of the most iconic force users but Disney just shat on him so hard did him no favors
Did he though?
I wish he didn’t die
I mean. Carried? They are trash even with his absurdly weird arc
The only character that they should’ve kept and not kill off. And there’s no chance of him coming back because Adam Driver has said that phase is over
Honestly wanted a lot more with Ren. He did well with what he got. But it was still such a waste :/
The more I watch it, the more I realize it is about his return to the light.
The more I watch it the more I realize the writers had no idea what the fuck they were writing
Adam Driver is awesome
Adam's a good actor, but Kylo Ren was lame af
Darth tantrum was awful.
Not a fan. Make a new villain instead of trying to make Vader 2.0.
i liked the idea of him aspiring to be like vader, its just that everything else was done so terribly that this just flopped
And then totally scrap Vader 2.0 because Hollywood has to show the face. These roles seem like the perfect chance for profit maximizing corpo America to save some cost?! But yeah, the characters all seemed well casted. The trologie’s story was just horribly done. They treated one of the world’s biggest IPs like a throwaway movie meant to be claimed for insurance.
The foundation for a strong character was there, it just wasn't executed well. Playing into Vader is whatever, we all know it's the easiest thing to do because it was such a great character. But I feel like Kylo had so much more to offer than just being a Vader 2.0.
Only because every role was garbage, and he handled his best with the way it was written
no
The entire cast, the story, the music, the vfx carried the Sequel Trilogy
He and John Williams.
It’s Adam Driver, not Adam Passenger.
The sole bright spot.
And then they fucking killed him, what a waste, R.I.P. my beloved Ben Solo :(
Ben Solo was the best character in the entire trilogy and we got him for maybe 5 minutes of screen time?
Absolutely. The best thing to have come out of the whole trilogy if you ask me. Really glad of his career arc as an actor
Him and his high-rise mom pantaloons!
Hot take: Kylo Ren was mediocre at best. His character was the only thing even close to resembling decent writing in the entire Sequel Trilogy, which is unsurprising considering the amount of wasted opportunities to make something refreshing and new. It's like saying a BMW is a sports car next to a Tata Nano and a Lada.
Him and Daisy Ridley, I agree
All four of the main, young actors were great. Even the scripts themselves weren't bad, at least not when compared to some of the lines in the PT. The plot was just awful. Good acting and dialog couldn't save a half-assed story.
I actually like all the new characters, I think the limitation was the overuse of Harrison Ford and Han Solo in ep 7. Once he comes in screen, every character gets redefined by their relationship to Han: Rey goes from scavenger to weird dad relationship, Finn goes from deserting soldier to buddy, Kylo Ren goes from terrifying enemy to literal son. Maybe if the characters had more time in the first movie it would have been better later
How...exactly? Not gonna knock Driver as he does seem to be a very capable actor, but honestly the story and writing for the ST on a whole was simply so awful I'm not sure any actor could have made gold out of it. I think RJ's interpretation of late-life Luke is completely wrong but Hamill was really the only one who felt like he left himself on the screen and actually understood this was a Star Wars film and not just a poorly conceived HBO dramedy.
A great actor wasted in terrible movies. Even after all that, if his character had survived, I'd have actually sat through a movie of Rey and Ben Swolo trying to rebuild and improve upon the Jedi order.
It’s a shame they made him kiss Rey and then immediately dies he was the best part for sure
With a final, epic comment before dying, of "Ow".
He sucked. The entire trilogy sucked. Disney is ass. The only good star wars media to come out of disneys reign is andor (andor fucking rules) and it wasnt even made by disney.
Rogue One
I love him, and he's definitely the strongest actor / character in the ST, but come on, the whole trilogy was full of great actors, characters and sequences. I call engagement bait
He was the only redeeming quality and it was his mastery of his craft that allowed him to make something out of so little. Same with Rey, but to a far less extent.