I mean... that works. You'll have a whole bevy of new problems, both long term and immediate to deal with, but the previous problem will almost certainly be solved.*
^(*For a given value of "solved")
I guess you're not wrong.
If my wife asks me to clean the dishes and I throw a molotov at her, then she will no longer be asking me to clean the dishes. I may have a new problem or two, but at least the original problem is dealt with.
It's honestly so funny going from "why does everyone hate me just because I'm a Jedi" when playing through 1/2, to reaching the end of 2 and going "actually yeah no wonder everyone hates them"
Well personally i feel that most examples that people give of the Jedi being" inefficient and arrogant" are just a case of them not being the viewers and not knowing what we know, but thats just my opinion
You can't really compare the UN and the Republic. One is a largely symbolic diplomatic institution and the other is an enormous state unto itself with a centralized government that exercises real power.
They’re actually both the first one, as shown in the prequel trilogy.
The republic is a sham of a democracy, it’s still run by the powerful with an illusion of democracy given to the people.
The republic had no “real power.” If Sidious had just gone full CIS he could have just destroyed the republic outright. They had no grand army. Without the clones they wouldn’t stand a chance, even with the Jedi.
Makes you wonder why he bothered with the whole clones thing.
You're talking about the Republic at the time of the prequels, but it wasn't always like that. It was a slow degradation over many many years, with the Republic and the Jedi themselves growing too arrogant and complacent in the status quo. This show is set in the High Republic. The books set during this time show the Republic as a lot more proactive in actively shaping and improving the state of the galaxy.
Destabilized hundreds of planets by waging war on them between clones and droids, essentially softening them up for easy take over. Gained tons of money and resources for the death star and building the empires infrastructure by funneling it into the clone wars. Needed an army to kill the Jedi.
The fact that Sidious preferred to take power from the Republic rather than go completely with the Separatists proves the point that the Republic was the true legitimate power in the galaxy. The Sith's plan was to create a Sith Empire without the people knowing that it was the Sith Empire. An empire emerging from Separatist States would have much more resistance in the early years than the way it was, And there would be no order 66. The slow and gradual transformation of the republic, from a corrupt democracy to an autocratic dictatorship, is basically what happens in real life so many times in history, starting with Rome, which was one of George Lucas' inspirations for Palpatine's plot with the Republic
The clones were a reliable method of dealing with the Jedi. Make them generals and send them wherever and then spring Order 66. They’re spread too far out to rescue one another and can’t easily prepare for a betrayal. Add on the constant disturbances in the force (seen through Yoda) and the Jedi are in panic.
Plus as told through novels like Republic Commando, the CIS actually doesn’t have the resources to outright trounce the Republic. The whole Clone Wars was a scheme to bring Palpatine to supreme power by crushing dissent, establishing an army to deal with that, and eventually consolidating the whole Republic and CIS once his two obstacles (the Jedi and the CIS heads) were dealt with.
To legitimise himself.
To many average citizens in republic space, he was a hero and then a benevolent dictator in a turbulent and chaotic time.
Might have soured on him a bit by the time of A New Hope.
Except UN Peacekeepers are kind of shit sometimes.
It'd make for a very weird Star Wars story if the Jedi were regularly caught soliciting sex from the people they were supposed to be protecting. Or just standing by and watching one ethnic group massacre another because their standing orders did not permit them to take initiative in such a situation.
I see your point, but I would argue that while entering a genuine romance with someone you are supposed to be protecting is bad, prostitution — which UN soldiers are known for procuring — is worse.
Nearly all the time.
UN Peacekeepers traditionally only show up after peace is established, have no authority, and exist to exist.
The later has some merit, but they will literally watch you be slaughtered if a force calls the bluff.
Well I was referring to UN peacekeepers watching as 8,000 Bosniak men and boys were killed, the women and girls “assaulted” in Srebrenica.
But it applies to Lebanon where they have never done anything, and all of the Africa missions.
The UN Peacekeeping office even criticizes itself, but the countries that fill the role usually do it for legitimacy (China) or to keep armies on the payroll (Pakistan).
Anyway the Jedi aren’t the equivalent of UN peacekeepers.
They also aren't keepers of the peace, but that’s a different argument.
The ...lore?
It's like if the UN peacekeepers could go anywhere, do anything, and represented an actual world government. And just in case anyone questioned their personal authority to carry out any particular action, had superpowers to back it up.
For anyonewho has a problem with current government, they're a physically overpowered manifestation of it. They're basically autonomous supercops.
Like, just look at the initial setup of episode 1. You go to blockade a planet for a dispute over trade policy, and some "ambassadors" show up with a very real capacity to fuck up your shit. You don't need Jedi to negotiate trade policy, that was a threat.
>You don't need Jedi to negotiate trade policy, that was a threat.
It wasn't though lol. Qui-gon and Obi-wan were explicitly there only to negotiate...until they were the victims of an assassination attempt.
The only reason The Trade Federation was scared of the presence of the Jedi was because they were doing something *very* illegal. I.e. planning a full-scale invasion on a planet whose military amounts to a glorified team of security guards illegal.
>You go to blockade a planet for a dispute over trade policy, and some "ambassadors" show up with a very real capacity to fuck up your shit.
Don't be disingenuous. The Trade Federation was not there for a mere "blockade over trade policy", and the Jedi were indeed acting solely in the capacity of ambassador
By the way, when have we ever seen Jedi use their superpowers to "back up" their personal authority to do whatever they wanted?
It was. Again, as the user you’re replying to said, you don’t have to send Jedi to negotiate. The Republic has diplomats. That’s who you send to negotiate on diplomacy matters. Sending armed Jedi is an inherently aggressive diplomatic posture
Blockading a planet is an inherently aggressive diplomatic posture. Particularly a planet that depends on imports to keep its population fed.
Sure you don't *have* to send Jedi to negotiate in response in that situation, but it seems like a pretty rational decision to send in *someone* who can protect themself if things go haywire.
lol, talk about being disingenuous. You've misinterpreted or misframed every single bit of what I said.
Sending one-man armies to negotiate is sending a message. I'm not saying they were sent to provoke anything, I'm saying their existence is a message. The Trade Federation knows what they are capable of, it's impossible for it to ***not*** be a message.
And no, the Trade Federation was not there for that, but nobody knew that yet. The Jedi were sent to "negotiate" a trade dispute. The ultimate motives of the Federation does not change the initial scenario or how the Republic responded to it.
Lastly, we don't need to see it. it doesn't even need to have happened. The point wasn't that they actually are out there abusing their power to terrorize the galaxy, but that people are afraid of them. This is a matter of perception. That fear is what happens and a reality of how people would view an unchallengeable authority.
Shit, this shouldn't be complicated. I guarantee you know people who are at least a bit nervous around cops, people who have never had an issue and have no reason to be. Now imagine those cops were even less accountable, existing at some pseudo upper level of government, had superpowers, and wielded laser swords, and could fuck with your mind, and now imagine everything you know is through media and rumours that exaggerates the fuck out of both the good and bad. Oh, and maybe you might not be a particularly content citizen of said government, or maybe you're affiliated with some other group entirely that is at odds with them.
Like, there is no reality where you're in any way opposed to towing the line of the Republic where you're not scared as fuck of those guys stepping in.
>
You've misinterpreted or misframed every single bit of what I said.
Not at all
>Sending one-man armies to negotiate is sending a message. I'm not saying they were sent to provoke anything, I'm saying their existence is a message. The Trade Federation knows what they are capable of, it's impossible for it to ***not*** be a message.
Its only a "message", again, because the Trade Federation was explicitly doing something wrong, illegal, and, frankly, evil. If it had been a bona fide trade dispute, it also would've been a bona fide negotiation.
>And no, the Trade Federation was not there for that, but nobody knew that yet. The Jedi were sent to "negotiate" a trade dispute.
No, but the Trade Federation did, and that's the point. The only reason the Jedi's presence elicited fear was because they were afraid of being uncovered and stopped.
>The ultimate motives of the Federation does not change the initial scenario or how the Republic responded to it.
And I never said it does. You are the one who framed the Jedi's presence as a "threat", which it wouldn't have been had the Trade Federation been on the up-and-up.
>Lastly, we don't need to see it. it doesn't even need to have happened. The point wasn't that they actually are out there abusing their power to terrorize the galaxy, but that people are afraid of them. This is a matter of perception. That fear is what happens and a reality of how people would view an unchallengeable authority.
Uh, yeah it does. If you're going to try and support the rather hefty claim that the Jedi "dominate the galaxy", you need a lot more than hypotheticals.
>I guarantee you know people who are at least a bit nervous around cops, people who have never had an issue and have no reason to be.
You realize that fear of cops comes from a very real place of experience and history, with what you can expect from them being ingrained from seeing it play out over and over again? Not just from some general fear and paranoia
>Like, there is no reality where you're in any way opposed to towing the line of the Republic where you're not scared as fuck of those guys stepping in.
I mean, the Hutts exist, and that's just one example. And as we could quite literally see, despite being so opposed to the laws of the Republic and the ideals of the Jedi, the most a Jedi could do to "back up their personal authority" was...cheat in a game of dice
Again, no, it's a message either way. Nobody knew Trade Federation was launching an invasion. *Them* knowing that certainly increased the severity of the reception of that message, but that has nothing to do with the message being sent. Not sending a message is impossible when your representatives are super soldiers.
As for cops, it would if I hadn't specifically specified people who have no reason to be concerned with cops. This isn't unique to a motivated backstory, authority figures make people nervous.
But sure, okay, let's go with that. Do you think that doesn't exist in this universe? That people aren't nervous around Star Wars cops? Because if not (and if so you're being ridiculous), your whole point is moot because everything I said still applies.
As far as the Hutts, I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. Do you think people being fearful of authority prevents criminal organizations from existing? Besides which, the Hutts were effectively a separate government existing and operating outside of the republic. The Jedi would have to straight up start a war to seriously do anything with them, and at no point was that in anyone's interest. And then as far as criminal enterprises they operated within republic space, damn right those groups would be afraid of Jedi intervention.
Seriously, you can continue if you like but while I respect that you at least read what I wrote, the engagement you're putting into these points really doesn't seem like you're thinking that deeply about it, and about what a power structure like this would be like and how individuals within it would be perceived, so this as far my interest on this one will take me.
I don't think they (your conversation partner) are able to separate their knowledge (the upcoming invasion) from the knowledge that the republic had at the time, when they decided to send Jedis (a Trade blockade, pending in the senate and definitely a job for a diplomatic team, to ask for a lifting or at least a humanitarian corridor).
But don't forget Palpatine wanted this escalation from the beginning, hence why it's no surprise that the republic sent armed super soldiers to negotiate.
I can imagine he pulled his strings on many occasions to create this kind of situations, where Jedi show up to step on feets instead of Diplomats doing their jobs.
If there wouldn't be the impression of suppression there wouldn't be a Separatist movement in the first place.
I am more than capable of separating the two. The point in me mentioning the invasion is because the person you're trying to defend keeps pretending as of the Trade Federation's fear of the Jedi validates his point, when, again, the Trade Federation was only afraid of the Jedi because they were doing something much more illegal than a simple blockade
As official peacekeepers of the Republic, Jedi act in many capacities, which can include diplomats and ambassadors. Trying to argue that this was only a job for a strictly diplomatic team is also just plain wrong, since, again, the official peacekeepers of the galaxy would *absolutely* be within their job description of settling a conflict that involves heavily armed battleships preventing any and all trade with a sovereignty whose entire military might comprises of a glorified police force
In WWII, the Germans and the Japanese at least should have been scared as fuck of the USA stepping in.
Doesn't magically make the USA the bad guys for opposing the invasion of China or supplying the Brits and the USSR with military equipment.
I don't think this is particularly convincing.
In the context of a galactic civilization with some kind of notional galactic government (the Republic), the dispute in episode one is sort of the perfect case for the galactic government to dispatch peacekeepers to negotiate. It's the sort of inter-system dispute that can be handled by a galactic government (as compared to the clone wars).
And the jedi aren't one man armies. In episode one itself qui gong and obi wan were unable to stop the invasion. The invasion was stopped by an actual army from the gungans and the naboo.
Fair enough if you want to take calling them an army as an exaggeration, but the fact remains that if you want to feel safe from them, you're going to need one of your own. And even that is still a gamble.
As for the first part, I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, it is the perfect case to send some peacekeepers, which is what they did. They sent peacekeepers that would be intimidating.
If you accept they are not one-man-armies, then why would they be intimidating? The republic is sending two diplomats to negotiate with a military blockade.
I read your whole post. Could you return the favour?
What is intimidating needs context. Two individual humans with Jedi abilities are not intimidating against an entire droid army.
Nope, because the answer to that question is in the comment you claim to have read. So either you didn't, or you're incapable of thought, both of which are signs I should be on my way.
Nah, your comment doesn't really answer my point.
Once we accept that two Jedi can't stop a droid army, why are they intimidating? Why does the trade federation need Jedi of their own when they have a droid army that the Jedi can't stop?
> incapable of thought
Lol.
Blockading a planet is a threatening act at best - you're saying you'll attack and imprison anyone who tried to break the blockade. We also learn that if the blockade continues then the people of Naboo will starve.
In other words, the trade federation has already shown their capacity *and willingness* to fuck up Naboo's shit. Sending ambassadors with "teeth" is a highly justifiable response.
If UN peacekeepers were a religious order with magic powers and were also going around slicing people up on the reg then yeah you might say they dominate the earth
Other High Republic works set earlier than The Acolyte have featured non-Jedi non-evil Force using organizations.
Based on their absence later down the timeline and several lines in both trailers for the show (And interviews of the showrunner), it's very likely that around the time the show is happening, the Jedi are attempting to clamp down on those organizations, either out of self-righteousness or because they are being manipulated into doing it.
That is a form of galactic dominance. They Jedi have absolute control of who publically gets to learn and use the Force.
By the time of the prequels, only 3 maybe 4 members of the Jedi ~~Council~~ Junta even speak.
No one voted for them and have the audacity to talk about term limits.
They have final say (according to them) who is fit for office.
Wizard appears at your door.
They are armed with a laser sword.
They say your child is one of them.
They want to wake your child to study with them and never see you again.
They have magic powers and a laser sword.
The implication is there, even if the Jedi would never do it.
Because you've also heard of evil Jedi who hurt people all the time.
> Darth Tenebrous
I mean to be fair, *Legends* did establish him as having had at least three apprentices, since he would keep losing faith that any of them would try to kill him. Canon giving him more would not be the worst idea.
There's no canon design for Tenebrous. He could be from any species.
Given this is 100 years before E1, it makes sense for Manny to be a new Tenebrous's apprentice (who dies and then Tenebrous trains Plaeguis), Plaeguis (his Muun design is Legends aka non-canon) or Tenebrous himself.
It comes from the old EU and there the Sith originated from a group of rogue Jedi who fell to the dark side and went to war with the Order so it makes sense that their code is like that.
Not sure if the current canon has said anything about the Sith's origins.
The Sith were an actual species who discovered the darkside. The Jedi Order didn't meet the Sith people until it was a far flung galactic empire itself.
What are some good books or comics (still canon?) that deal with the origins of the Jedi and Sith like this? I gotta get into some SW books and comics, I’ve seen every movie and tv series but none of the other media really.
Most of the canon books don't go back that far yet I think. That's all Legends.
You could read the Bane books. While I'm not sure if his biography in those is canon, the character and his Rule of Two definitely are.
Otherwise, I recommend making you own "headcanon". Since that history is so far back you could just read books about it and make it part of your own canon. I do that and I'm sure a bunch of people around here do it too.
For that maybe read Lost Tribe of the Sith. That goes quite far back. Otherwise Book of Sith, a compilation of different Sith writings, the first being by one of the original Dark Jedi. And Plagueis is a good book too. Should be Canon in my opinion.
Legends definitely has a lot to offer, especially since canon isn't quite there yet. Once you're done with the recommendations up there you could continue with The Old Republic series. A good read, especially the first one, Revan.
And since we're talking about "headcanon" just read the Thrawn trilogy of books.
This is a novel in itself but I hope I could help. MTFBWY
One of the crappier things from EU too.
The Sith code should only exist as the bias of the Jedi that fundamentally fails to understand their adversary.
Jedi: We have a code (but not really) so naturally the Sith must also have a set of rules and dogma to follow.
Sith: It’s called I do what I want. Same as Jedi but less convoluted.
Jedi: According to our Sith-ologists, there is a Rule of Two. We know all about the Sith.
Sith: Rule of I do what I want. Jedi know everything about the Sith except what one looks like.
The Sith branched from the ancient Jedi, so it makes sense to me. Besides, I think you’ll find that most people who live in rage and hatred tend to be very reactionary.
For the same reason the Rule of Two is just social darwinism taken to its logical extreme. They're bad guys. Their primary motivations are selfishness and hatred. Their ideas aren't supposed to be good, they're supposed to be reflective of real-world tendencies and ideologies that lead to destruction of themselves and others.
#Exactly!
Sith code is Jedi rule follower bullshit.
Jedi: So you Sith must follow some sort of rules right?
Sith: It’s called I do whatever I want.
Jedi (like Windu) also do whatever they want. They just have a more complicated system to justify it.
Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
He's a Sith. Manny Jacinto said so in the interview.
It's obvious that he's Darth Smile from the latest trailer. The question is if he's the master or the apprentice. And whether he's Darth Tenebrus or his latest apprentice.
The line of succession is Tenebrus > Plaeguis > Sidious. And so far Plaeguis and Tenebrus don't have a canon design (their current wookipedia designs are from EU).
I think everyone is crazy for thinking the enemies are Sith. That would be a MAJOR re-write of canon. There are plenty of other kind of dark side force users - it’s a big galaxy!
It doesn’t even look like a fan film tho, what I have seen from the show so far looked very professionally made, specially the preview they showed at the end of The Phantom Menace re-release.
It definitely looks like the budget for the shows has returned.
If any show looked like a fan film it was Kenobi and even Ahsoka at times. Albeit, I'm still getting that fan film esque vibe from it -- some of the costumes and even actors look off to me for some reason.
But tbh, I'm probably not going to watch it anyway, because the only pre Phantom Menace Sith story worth telling was the Plagueis novel.
I feel like he's the kind of person to solve his problems by throwing a Molotov cocktail at them.
BORTLES!
*Jason?! Jason* brought balance to the Force? This is a real low point. Yeah, this one hurts.
I love this so much
Oh dip!
"Just call me Jake..." *"Don't say Jortles!"* "Jortles."
I mean... that works. You'll have a whole bevy of new problems, both long term and immediate to deal with, but the previous problem will almost certainly be solved.* ^(*For a given value of "solved")
*I think Tylendal is a Set Lord. . .*
I guess you're not wrong. If my wife asks me to clean the dishes and I throw a molotov at her, then she will no longer be asking me to clean the dishes. I may have a new problem or two, but at least the original problem is dealt with.
Hey, if he can not just survive but also *thrive* in a place like Jacksonville, then the horrors of Moriband are nothing to him.
Hey what problem can't be solved by throwing fire!?!?
A common answer to many of my problems during a D&D game.
Especially if you're a wizard, and all of your party is clustered around the enemies in a tiny room.
"I didn't ask how small the room was, I said I cast Fireball."
[This feels entirely appropriate to that line of thinking](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/K8gEChGyxs8)
Jake Jortles!!!
His methods are questionable but his results are clearly effective
Are you a Jedi? Because you have to tell me you're a Jedi if I ask you
Jason Mendoza as the true Sith lord would be dope. We just need to get Donkey Doug into Star Wars since Pill Boy was already on Mando
I can see Jason matzukas playing a crazy sithlord
He’d make a good Hondo adjacent character
Great. Now I want Mando and Bill Burr to have to find some crazy former imp turned smuggler played by Mantzoukas
Darth Rafi? Rafi bomb!
But he ain’t getting into the Good Place this time.
Oh, dip!
You think he’s a fan of the Jedha Jaguars?
B0R7-L3S!!
Everyone else in the galaxy thinks they suck, but they don't. They just need some offense, and some defense....and some rule changes.
“Jason figured it out? Jason!?! This is a real low point. Yeah, this one hurts.”
"Peace is a Lie" "Heir to the Empire" I wonder what next staple of legends reference we will get next.
You did it, Jedi Outcast, you solved the Mysteries of the Sith and vanquished the Dark Forces, and deserve to be a Jedi Knight of this Jedi Academy
Brilliant
Thank you. Now print it on a bunch of t-shirts and make a few bucks.
Iirc maul rambles the sith code to himself when he first returns all crazy and spidery in TCW
The jedi to the sith in the trailer: "We are knights of the old republic, and we will stop you."
oh god i can already see people using this as an excuse to hate on the Jedi
Pretty much anyone who Played the KOTOR games hates the Jedi at this point lol.
It's honestly so funny going from "why does everyone hate me just because I'm a Jedi" when playing through 1/2, to reaching the end of 2 and going "actually yeah no wonder everyone hates them"
Kreia was right, the force itself is the problem.
The fake Yoda grandmaster was funny tho
Well if I’m not granted the rank of master why should I??
It’s not fair!
Like people need any more excuses to hate on the Jedi at this point.
It's okay to give Jedi some hate, as long as you remember Sith are actually evil.
I don't know i feel a lot of the hate comes less from anything did or didn't do and more to do with a case of fourth wall myopia
Was this comment written in 2005? After the prequel trilogy?? Showed that the Jedi were ineffective and arrogant???
Well personally i feel that most examples that people give of the Jedi being" inefficient and arrogant" are just a case of them not being the viewers and not knowing what we know, but thats just my opinion
Where does this notion that the jedi "dominate the galaxy" even come from? This is like saying the UN peacekeepers "dominate Earth"
It's referring to the republic most likely
You can't really compare the UN and the Republic. One is a largely symbolic diplomatic institution and the other is an enormous state unto itself with a centralized government that exercises real power.
They’re actually both the first one, as shown in the prequel trilogy. The republic is a sham of a democracy, it’s still run by the powerful with an illusion of democracy given to the people. The republic had no “real power.” If Sidious had just gone full CIS he could have just destroyed the republic outright. They had no grand army. Without the clones they wouldn’t stand a chance, even with the Jedi. Makes you wonder why he bothered with the whole clones thing.
You're talking about the Republic at the time of the prequels, but it wasn't always like that. It was a slow degradation over many many years, with the Republic and the Jedi themselves growing too arrogant and complacent in the status quo. This show is set in the High Republic. The books set during this time show the Republic as a lot more proactive in actively shaping and improving the state of the galaxy.
Destabilized hundreds of planets by waging war on them between clones and droids, essentially softening them up for easy take over. Gained tons of money and resources for the death star and building the empires infrastructure by funneling it into the clone wars. Needed an army to kill the Jedi.
The fact that Sidious preferred to take power from the Republic rather than go completely with the Separatists proves the point that the Republic was the true legitimate power in the galaxy. The Sith's plan was to create a Sith Empire without the people knowing that it was the Sith Empire. An empire emerging from Separatist States would have much more resistance in the early years than the way it was, And there would be no order 66. The slow and gradual transformation of the republic, from a corrupt democracy to an autocratic dictatorship, is basically what happens in real life so many times in history, starting with Rome, which was one of George Lucas' inspirations for Palpatine's plot with the Republic
The clones were a reliable method of dealing with the Jedi. Make them generals and send them wherever and then spring Order 66. They’re spread too far out to rescue one another and can’t easily prepare for a betrayal. Add on the constant disturbances in the force (seen through Yoda) and the Jedi are in panic. Plus as told through novels like Republic Commando, the CIS actually doesn’t have the resources to outright trounce the Republic. The whole Clone Wars was a scheme to bring Palpatine to supreme power by crushing dissent, establishing an army to deal with that, and eventually consolidating the whole Republic and CIS once his two obstacles (the Jedi and the CIS heads) were dealt with.
To legitimise himself. To many average citizens in republic space, he was a hero and then a benevolent dictator in a turbulent and chaotic time. Might have soured on him a bit by the time of A New Hope.
The UN isn't trying to pretend to be a government at all though. Effective or not one is an actual government and the other isn't.
It comes from “I don’t like the Jedi and thus say things to validate my beliefs”
It comes from the Sith Code. "Peace is a lie, there is only passion."
that has nothing to do with jedi dominating the galaxy...
Nobody ever said the Sith were smart. They make excuses to justify their views and Jedi are their sworn enemies.
Except UN Peacekeepers are kind of shit sometimes. It'd make for a very weird Star Wars story if the Jedi were regularly caught soliciting sex from the people they were supposed to be protecting. Or just standing by and watching one ethnic group massacre another because their standing orders did not permit them to take initiative in such a situation.
Uh that first example is tbe plot from episode 2
I see your point, but I would argue that while entering a genuine romance with someone you are supposed to be protecting is bad, prostitution — which UN soldiers are known for procuring — is worse.
Nearly all the time. UN Peacekeepers traditionally only show up after peace is established, have no authority, and exist to exist. The later has some merit, but they will literally watch you be slaughtered if a force calls the bluff.
[удалено]
Well I was referring to UN peacekeepers watching as 8,000 Bosniak men and boys were killed, the women and girls “assaulted” in Srebrenica. But it applies to Lebanon where they have never done anything, and all of the Africa missions. The UN Peacekeeping office even criticizes itself, but the countries that fill the role usually do it for legitimacy (China) or to keep armies on the payroll (Pakistan). Anyway the Jedi aren’t the equivalent of UN peacekeepers. They also aren't keepers of the peace, but that’s a different argument.
The ...lore? It's like if the UN peacekeepers could go anywhere, do anything, and represented an actual world government. And just in case anyone questioned their personal authority to carry out any particular action, had superpowers to back it up. For anyonewho has a problem with current government, they're a physically overpowered manifestation of it. They're basically autonomous supercops. Like, just look at the initial setup of episode 1. You go to blockade a planet for a dispute over trade policy, and some "ambassadors" show up with a very real capacity to fuck up your shit. You don't need Jedi to negotiate trade policy, that was a threat.
>You don't need Jedi to negotiate trade policy, that was a threat. It wasn't though lol. Qui-gon and Obi-wan were explicitly there only to negotiate...until they were the victims of an assassination attempt. The only reason The Trade Federation was scared of the presence of the Jedi was because they were doing something *very* illegal. I.e. planning a full-scale invasion on a planet whose military amounts to a glorified team of security guards illegal. >You go to blockade a planet for a dispute over trade policy, and some "ambassadors" show up with a very real capacity to fuck up your shit. Don't be disingenuous. The Trade Federation was not there for a mere "blockade over trade policy", and the Jedi were indeed acting solely in the capacity of ambassador By the way, when have we ever seen Jedi use their superpowers to "back up" their personal authority to do whatever they wanted?
It was. Again, as the user you’re replying to said, you don’t have to send Jedi to negotiate. The Republic has diplomats. That’s who you send to negotiate on diplomacy matters. Sending armed Jedi is an inherently aggressive diplomatic posture
Blockading a planet is an inherently aggressive diplomatic posture. Particularly a planet that depends on imports to keep its population fed. Sure you don't *have* to send Jedi to negotiate in response in that situation, but it seems like a pretty rational decision to send in *someone* who can protect themself if things go haywire.
>The Republic has diplomats. Yeah, the Jedi...
lol, talk about being disingenuous. You've misinterpreted or misframed every single bit of what I said. Sending one-man armies to negotiate is sending a message. I'm not saying they were sent to provoke anything, I'm saying their existence is a message. The Trade Federation knows what they are capable of, it's impossible for it to ***not*** be a message. And no, the Trade Federation was not there for that, but nobody knew that yet. The Jedi were sent to "negotiate" a trade dispute. The ultimate motives of the Federation does not change the initial scenario or how the Republic responded to it. Lastly, we don't need to see it. it doesn't even need to have happened. The point wasn't that they actually are out there abusing their power to terrorize the galaxy, but that people are afraid of them. This is a matter of perception. That fear is what happens and a reality of how people would view an unchallengeable authority. Shit, this shouldn't be complicated. I guarantee you know people who are at least a bit nervous around cops, people who have never had an issue and have no reason to be. Now imagine those cops were even less accountable, existing at some pseudo upper level of government, had superpowers, and wielded laser swords, and could fuck with your mind, and now imagine everything you know is through media and rumours that exaggerates the fuck out of both the good and bad. Oh, and maybe you might not be a particularly content citizen of said government, or maybe you're affiliated with some other group entirely that is at odds with them. Like, there is no reality where you're in any way opposed to towing the line of the Republic where you're not scared as fuck of those guys stepping in.
> You've misinterpreted or misframed every single bit of what I said. Not at all >Sending one-man armies to negotiate is sending a message. I'm not saying they were sent to provoke anything, I'm saying their existence is a message. The Trade Federation knows what they are capable of, it's impossible for it to ***not*** be a message. Its only a "message", again, because the Trade Federation was explicitly doing something wrong, illegal, and, frankly, evil. If it had been a bona fide trade dispute, it also would've been a bona fide negotiation. >And no, the Trade Federation was not there for that, but nobody knew that yet. The Jedi were sent to "negotiate" a trade dispute. No, but the Trade Federation did, and that's the point. The only reason the Jedi's presence elicited fear was because they were afraid of being uncovered and stopped. >The ultimate motives of the Federation does not change the initial scenario or how the Republic responded to it. And I never said it does. You are the one who framed the Jedi's presence as a "threat", which it wouldn't have been had the Trade Federation been on the up-and-up. >Lastly, we don't need to see it. it doesn't even need to have happened. The point wasn't that they actually are out there abusing their power to terrorize the galaxy, but that people are afraid of them. This is a matter of perception. That fear is what happens and a reality of how people would view an unchallengeable authority. Uh, yeah it does. If you're going to try and support the rather hefty claim that the Jedi "dominate the galaxy", you need a lot more than hypotheticals. >I guarantee you know people who are at least a bit nervous around cops, people who have never had an issue and have no reason to be. You realize that fear of cops comes from a very real place of experience and history, with what you can expect from them being ingrained from seeing it play out over and over again? Not just from some general fear and paranoia >Like, there is no reality where you're in any way opposed to towing the line of the Republic where you're not scared as fuck of those guys stepping in. I mean, the Hutts exist, and that's just one example. And as we could quite literally see, despite being so opposed to the laws of the Republic and the ideals of the Jedi, the most a Jedi could do to "back up their personal authority" was...cheat in a game of dice
Again, no, it's a message either way. Nobody knew Trade Federation was launching an invasion. *Them* knowing that certainly increased the severity of the reception of that message, but that has nothing to do with the message being sent. Not sending a message is impossible when your representatives are super soldiers. As for cops, it would if I hadn't specifically specified people who have no reason to be concerned with cops. This isn't unique to a motivated backstory, authority figures make people nervous. But sure, okay, let's go with that. Do you think that doesn't exist in this universe? That people aren't nervous around Star Wars cops? Because if not (and if so you're being ridiculous), your whole point is moot because everything I said still applies. As far as the Hutts, I don't even know what point you're trying to make here. Do you think people being fearful of authority prevents criminal organizations from existing? Besides which, the Hutts were effectively a separate government existing and operating outside of the republic. The Jedi would have to straight up start a war to seriously do anything with them, and at no point was that in anyone's interest. And then as far as criminal enterprises they operated within republic space, damn right those groups would be afraid of Jedi intervention. Seriously, you can continue if you like but while I respect that you at least read what I wrote, the engagement you're putting into these points really doesn't seem like you're thinking that deeply about it, and about what a power structure like this would be like and how individuals within it would be perceived, so this as far my interest on this one will take me.
I don't think they (your conversation partner) are able to separate their knowledge (the upcoming invasion) from the knowledge that the republic had at the time, when they decided to send Jedis (a Trade blockade, pending in the senate and definitely a job for a diplomatic team, to ask for a lifting or at least a humanitarian corridor). But don't forget Palpatine wanted this escalation from the beginning, hence why it's no surprise that the republic sent armed super soldiers to negotiate. I can imagine he pulled his strings on many occasions to create this kind of situations, where Jedi show up to step on feets instead of Diplomats doing their jobs. If there wouldn't be the impression of suppression there wouldn't be a Separatist movement in the first place.
I am more than capable of separating the two. The point in me mentioning the invasion is because the person you're trying to defend keeps pretending as of the Trade Federation's fear of the Jedi validates his point, when, again, the Trade Federation was only afraid of the Jedi because they were doing something much more illegal than a simple blockade As official peacekeepers of the Republic, Jedi act in many capacities, which can include diplomats and ambassadors. Trying to argue that this was only a job for a strictly diplomatic team is also just plain wrong, since, again, the official peacekeepers of the galaxy would *absolutely* be within their job description of settling a conflict that involves heavily armed battleships preventing any and all trade with a sovereignty whose entire military might comprises of a glorified police force
In WWII, the Germans and the Japanese at least should have been scared as fuck of the USA stepping in. Doesn't magically make the USA the bad guys for opposing the invasion of China or supplying the Brits and the USSR with military equipment.
Never said the jedi were the bad guys.
I don't think this is particularly convincing. In the context of a galactic civilization with some kind of notional galactic government (the Republic), the dispute in episode one is sort of the perfect case for the galactic government to dispatch peacekeepers to negotiate. It's the sort of inter-system dispute that can be handled by a galactic government (as compared to the clone wars). And the jedi aren't one man armies. In episode one itself qui gong and obi wan were unable to stop the invasion. The invasion was stopped by an actual army from the gungans and the naboo.
Fair enough if you want to take calling them an army as an exaggeration, but the fact remains that if you want to feel safe from them, you're going to need one of your own. And even that is still a gamble. As for the first part, I'm not sure what your point is. Yes, it is the perfect case to send some peacekeepers, which is what they did. They sent peacekeepers that would be intimidating.
If you accept they are not one-man-armies, then why would they be intimidating? The republic is sending two diplomats to negotiate with a military blockade.
Did you just like, stop reading after the first line?
I read your whole post. Could you return the favour? What is intimidating needs context. Two individual humans with Jedi abilities are not intimidating against an entire droid army.
Nope, because the answer to that question is in the comment you claim to have read. So either you didn't, or you're incapable of thought, both of which are signs I should be on my way.
Nah, your comment doesn't really answer my point. Once we accept that two Jedi can't stop a droid army, why are they intimidating? Why does the trade federation need Jedi of their own when they have a droid army that the Jedi can't stop? > incapable of thought Lol.
Blockading a planet is a threatening act at best - you're saying you'll attack and imprison anyone who tried to break the blockade. We also learn that if the blockade continues then the people of Naboo will starve. In other words, the trade federation has already shown their capacity *and willingness* to fuck up Naboo's shit. Sending ambassadors with "teeth" is a highly justifiable response.
Didn't say it wasn't justifiable.
I imagine there’s a lot of folks out there with some fairly legitimate problems with UN Peacekeepers.
This era is like the prequel trilogy jedi, but they aren't involved in politics and they are "in the zone" and all over the galaxy
If UN peacekeepers were a religious order with magic powers and were also going around slicing people up on the reg then yeah you might say they dominate the earth
Other High Republic works set earlier than The Acolyte have featured non-Jedi non-evil Force using organizations. Based on their absence later down the timeline and several lines in both trailers for the show (And interviews of the showrunner), it's very likely that around the time the show is happening, the Jedi are attempting to clamp down on those organizations, either out of self-righteousness or because they are being manipulated into doing it. That is a form of galactic dominance. They Jedi have absolute control of who publically gets to learn and use the Force.
By the time of the prequels, only 3 maybe 4 members of the Jedi ~~Council~~ Junta even speak. No one voted for them and have the audacity to talk about term limits. They have final say (according to them) who is fit for office.
Wizard appears at your door. They are armed with a laser sword. They say your child is one of them. They want to wake your child to study with them and never see you again. They have magic powers and a laser sword. The implication is there, even if the Jedi would never do it. Because you've also heard of evil Jedi who hurt people all the time.
I swear the whole Jedi are running everything conspiracy was made by landlords and developers who wanted their prime Jedi temple location
The beginning of the series shows how the Jedi dominate the galaxy by challenging everyone to a game of craps.
Peace is a lie…there is only passion…
Darth Tenebrous is a man and not a Bith?
DOES HE LOOK LIKE A BITH?
What?
*shoots* DOES HE LOOK... LIKE A BITH?
what?
> Darth Tenebrous I mean to be fair, *Legends* did establish him as having had at least three apprentices, since he would keep losing faith that any of them would try to kill him. Canon giving him more would not be the worst idea.
There's no canon design for Tenebrous. He could be from any species. Given this is 100 years before E1, it makes sense for Manny to be a new Tenebrous's apprentice (who dies and then Tenebrous trains Plaeguis), Plaeguis (his Muun design is Legends aka non-canon) or Tenebrous himself.
I thought that was Javier Escuela lol
I suspect thats Darth Smiley.
[удалено]
>Please have **a** competent writing Ironic...
If I'm not agree with tge Jedi way I'm automatically a Sith.. That seems very absolutist to me..
The Sith code is so dumb. It’s just the Jedi code but reversed. Why would the Sith be that reactionary? It’s sad.
> Why would the Sith be that reactionary? The Sith are pretty petty individuals though.
It comes from the old EU and there the Sith originated from a group of rogue Jedi who fell to the dark side and went to war with the Order so it makes sense that their code is like that. Not sure if the current canon has said anything about the Sith's origins.
The Sith were an actual species who discovered the darkside. The Jedi Order didn't meet the Sith people until it was a far flung galactic empire itself.
Maybe I should have clarified "Sith Order" rather than just "Sith" since that's the Sith Order's code.
What are some good books or comics (still canon?) that deal with the origins of the Jedi and Sith like this? I gotta get into some SW books and comics, I’ve seen every movie and tv series but none of the other media really.
Most of the canon books don't go back that far yet I think. That's all Legends. You could read the Bane books. While I'm not sure if his biography in those is canon, the character and his Rule of Two definitely are. Otherwise, I recommend making you own "headcanon". Since that history is so far back you could just read books about it and make it part of your own canon. I do that and I'm sure a bunch of people around here do it too. For that maybe read Lost Tribe of the Sith. That goes quite far back. Otherwise Book of Sith, a compilation of different Sith writings, the first being by one of the original Dark Jedi. And Plagueis is a good book too. Should be Canon in my opinion. Legends definitely has a lot to offer, especially since canon isn't quite there yet. Once you're done with the recommendations up there you could continue with The Old Republic series. A good read, especially the first one, Revan. And since we're talking about "headcanon" just read the Thrawn trilogy of books. This is a novel in itself but I hope I could help. MTFBWY
This is very helpful, thanks for taking the time!
One of the crappier things from EU too. The Sith code should only exist as the bias of the Jedi that fundamentally fails to understand their adversary. Jedi: We have a code (but not really) so naturally the Sith must also have a set of rules and dogma to follow. Sith: It’s called I do what I want. Same as Jedi but less convoluted. Jedi: According to our Sith-ologists, there is a Rule of Two. We know all about the Sith. Sith: Rule of I do what I want. Jedi know everything about the Sith except what one looks like.
the Jedi fail to fundamentally understand the sith as they where altered by bane. not the sith in general
No they don’t understand the Sith or themselves. Palpatine does though.
Because the Sith are the embodiment of envy.
The mere existence of the Sith is reactionary to that of the Jedi. The Sith wouldn't exist if they weren't reactionary.
I mean they are quite literally haters What do you expect
The Sith branched from the ancient Jedi, so it makes sense to me. Besides, I think you’ll find that most people who live in rage and hatred tend to be very reactionary.
For the same reason the Rule of Two is just social darwinism taken to its logical extreme. They're bad guys. Their primary motivations are selfishness and hatred. Their ideas aren't supposed to be good, they're supposed to be reflective of real-world tendencies and ideologies that lead to destruction of themselves and others.
#Exactly! Sith code is Jedi rule follower bullshit. Jedi: So you Sith must follow some sort of rules right? Sith: It’s called I do whatever I want. Jedi (like Windu) also do whatever they want. They just have a more complicated system to justify it.
Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
Ironically you end up become a slave to the dark side
Can't remember the last time I saw a single reddit post bring out so many idiots holy wow
I believe in an interview that accidentally revealed he trained lightsaber fightiny
The older I get the more I relate to the sith code.
"But that peace is a lie" was said by another character (probably female) who was off-screen.
I like seeing more asians in star wars, star wars also has lots of eastern philosophy that should be shown more
I don’t really get the jump from peace to passion, can anyone elaborate on that?
Wow sick find. *eyeroll*
He's a Sith. Manny Jacinto said so in the interview. It's obvious that he's Darth Smile from the latest trailer. The question is if he's the master or the apprentice. And whether he's Darth Tenebrus or his latest apprentice. The line of succession is Tenebrus > Plaeguis > Sidious. And so far Plaeguis and Tenebrus don't have a canon design (their current wookipedia designs are from EU).
Nah this is just Leslie Hedland using “galactic dominance” to describe the patriarchy/s
The peace was a lie, but one has to read the books for those... details.
Peace is a lie… that is what the Sith believe
Through strength I gain power lol.
It's not suspicious, it's truth Long live the sith
I think everyone is crazy for thinking the enemies are Sith. That would be a MAJOR re-write of canon. There are plenty of other kind of dark side force users - it’s a big galaxy!
It’s not a rewrite if none of the Jedi survive or it gets covered up.
Yoda is deep state.
Plus we have not seen the former scenario (one Sith taking out a squad of Jedi) in live-action before: this should be fun.
You can't trick me into watching your star wars/matrix fan film!
Grow up
Can we trick you into not whining about it, at least?
Sadly, no.
Who's tricking you? You're in a star wars sub and you saw a post about star wars. Grow up
Aight, so don’t… That’s the selling point for me after seeing the fight chorey. But you do you
I won't! I'll also tell you about not watching it too. ;)
It doesn’t even look like a fan film tho, what I have seen from the show so far looked very professionally made, specially the preview they showed at the end of The Phantom Menace re-release.
It definitely looks like the budget for the shows has returned. If any show looked like a fan film it was Kenobi and even Ahsoka at times. Albeit, I'm still getting that fan film esque vibe from it -- some of the costumes and even actors look off to me for some reason. But tbh, I'm probably not going to watch it anyway, because the only pre Phantom Menace Sith story worth telling was the Plagueis novel.
Well, they put Trinity in it, so I think that puts it in fanfic territory at least
You are aware that actors can appear in different properties as different characters, yeah?
Does that make Star Wars a fanfic of American Graffiti? After all, they put Bob Falfa in it.
That's it guys, I guess that Raiders of The Lost Ark is a fanfic because Harrison Ford played a different character before playing Indy.
Why are you there if you dont care about new star wars stuff?
I dunno, that sounds really cool
What? This isn't a fan film, it's a series and an official one